53 Comments - The Captain - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 7:29 am: Came across this Bloomberg story from Google News: New Jersey Population Growth Slows as Taxes Push Some to Flee Even Christie is fleeing to Illinois. - Wensicia - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 7:40 am: Isn’t this the same governor who was vacationing in Florida during the massive blizzard that hit his state not too long ago? Does he really want to show up in Chicago right now? Maybe he’ll offer stranded motorists who lost their cars tickets to Disney World? - My Fears - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 7:41 am: Do any (big) companies come to Illinois *without* being subsidized? And is anyone doing any accounting on the “public” side of these “public-private partnerships” to see the the “public” investment is indeed a good one? Sometimes I fear when Illinois sits down to discuss “public-private partnerships” the “public” guys aren’t the smartest ones in the room… - Rich Miller - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 7:43 am: MF, there are minimum statutory requirements for that EDGE tax break. - train111 - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 7:46 am: I’m not a highly paid political consultant, but I have some good advice for Gov Christie. Shut up and go home. Work on your own state’s problems. Anyone with half a brain can see through your half veiled sham political theatrics. Enough is enough already. There–I feel better now. train111 - Aldyth - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 7:52 am: He’s welcome to come here and spend New Jersey’s money in our hotels and restaurants. Quite honestly, if he’s able to recruit any businesses to move to New Jersey, I’ll be surprised. They were probably planning on leaving the state anyway, and probably before the tax increases went through. - waitress practicing politics. . - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 7:58 am: Is it possible this business recruiting is a sham for testing the water to run as GOP Presidential candidate in 2012? - Montrose - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 8:03 am: *Is it possible this business recruiting is a sham for testing the water to run as GOP Presidential candidate in 2012?* Yes. - Fed up - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 8:23 am: So it seems taxes are going down for a Japanese car company while the citizens of Illinois are stuck with the largest tax increase in history. - Excessively Rabid - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 8:24 am: I would rather have Quinn than Christie. Ugh. - Rich Miller - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 8:24 am: Yeah. It’s even worse because no Illinoisans are employed at that plant. Horrible! - bored now - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 8:36 am: christie’s visit is designed to sow confusion and fear. no businesses are going to flee illinois for new jersey. this is simply about keeping his profile in the stratosphere and bashing democratts. period. but voters *are* stupid, so christie probably will confuse some of them, especially in new jersey… - amalia - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 8:41 am: can we hire former Gov. Patterson to snarl, “New Jersey”? or Fred Armisen, who spent time in Chicago…. - Downstate - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 8:53 am: The owner of a 35 year old Illinois firm, with nearly 100 employees, just told me last night that he’s heading down to Florida to look at buying a house. He’s moving his residency to Florida immediately, because of his disgust with Springfield. As his firm migrates to more of an internet model, his ability to shift operations out of state becomes easier and easier. He’s a very high net worth individual in our town, having built a nice company and home. It’s one less person that’s adding to the value of real esate in our community. (I’ll remind you that the three wealthier business people from our town have already set up residency out of Illinois) Our real estate prices won’t plummet, but they will likely stagnate. Tough time seeing property taxes generating increasing revenue for our community, when people like this keep fleeing. I’d be shocked if this is not happening in lots of other small communities throughout the state. Illinois is in the very best of hands!! - Stones - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 8:55 am: As bad as Illinois can be who in their right mind would rather live in New Jersey? Give me a break! LOL - wordslinger - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 9:07 am: Isn’t Christie’s 15 minutes up yet? For a guy who as a Rove-picked U.S. Attorney couldn’t find the Mafia in NJ and got in trouble for giving sweet, no-bid “court-monitoring” contracts to his cronies, he generates an awful lot of heat. On the bright side, restaurant sales tax receipts will spike during his visit. - Small Town Liberal - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 9:15 am: - Illinois is in the very best of hands!! - I noticed you didn’t say he was headed to New Jersey. Thanks for the personal anecdote, but if I had a firm that was migrating toward being mostly internet based, I’d probably head to Florida, too. It would have nothing to do with taxes, mainly just avoiding weather like this past Tuesday. - just sayin' - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 9:15 am: The secret’s out. Chris Christie is just coming in to pick up deep dish pizza and beef sandwiches. The whole jobs thing is just a cover story. You heard it hear first. Just sayin’. - Living in Oklahoma - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 9:21 am: Illinois and New Jersey fighting. That really says it all doesn’t it? It’s like Clippers vs. Grizzlies. - Rich Miller - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 9:22 am: Oh, c’mon. Both states have very large GSP’s. We’re hardly North Dakota. - Ray del Camino - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 9:27 am: News flash: Rich guy moves to Florida! Thanks, Downstater. - Loop Lady - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 9:42 am: What a loser. If I was a resident of New Jersey, I’d want him to stay away-permanently. With all the serious issues facing Governors today, he is choosing to address them with publicity stunts and come ons? Antagonizing other Governors? I hope the MSM ignores him completely, but they won’t… - JustaJoe - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 9:46 am: The politics of blowhard-ism. - Excessively Rabid - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 9:55 am: As bad as Illinois can be who in their right mind would rather live in New Jersey? Somebody who teaches at Princeton or Rutgers? Somebody with high-dollar business in NYC who wants to live somewhere nice? Don’t be a rustic. It’s not all like you think it is. - Anonie - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 9:58 am: Rich don’t get fired up about Oklahoma, there is something in the water down there…no literally… “California officials recently lowered the proposed safe level from 0.06 parts per billion (ppb) to 0.02 ppb. The amount EWG found in tap water from one American city, Norman, Oklahoma, was nearly 650 times higher than this.” http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/jan/24/health-health But I bet his taxes are so low! Also, downstate my knee jerk reaction to your story is to feel a bit angered, not sympathetic. A businessman acquires wealth paying the same flat-rate of taxes that his employees pay. He is successful (at least in part) because of the educated workforce, state infrastructure and incentives. Then, when any non-partisan will tell you that the state could not avoid a revenue increase, he bails on the people and community that were critical to his success. In order to save a few bones… not to avoid bankruptcy. Mind you his tax rate did not increase as he acquired more wealth. - dupage dan - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 9:58 am: Re the statement about Gov Christie’s visit being alot of “political theater”, if I was at the Goodman Theater watching the flop that is Illinois political theater, I’d walk out. BTW, wasn’t our political theater turned into a play? I believe it was called “The Producers”. I loved Zero Mostel in the movie but he may have been mis-cast as Gov Quinn.. - shore - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 10:03 am: He’s either got something in the bag or he’s setting himself up to get crushed. The headlines will be pretty ugly in new jersey if he goes to chicago and comes up empty handed. - Responsa - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 10:09 am: ==I hope the MSM ignores him completely, but they won’t… == What about us? I find all the heckling, umbrage and focus on Christie, Walker, and Daniels around here to be, well, weird. Maybe just ignoring them would be the better approach? - Wensicia - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 10:10 am: If Christie’s state was such a great place for business owners, why does the governor need to travel here to find new business? Not only is this just politics, it’s bad carpetbagger politics. - truthman - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 10:41 am: How much taxpayer dough went to Mitsubishi to fund these new “jobs”? - zatoichi - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 10:53 am: The guys is hustling for PR. If it works, good for him. If some IL company moves to NJ because IL taxes are up but still lower than NJ, then they were leaving anyway. I expect the general cost of living is higher in NJ so good luck. - Small Town Liberal - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 10:53 am: - “jobs” - Quotes? Are these not going to be real positions or something? And about those incentive packages, I don’t like them either. But what do you think Walker, Daniels, Christie, and every other governor in the country are offering these companies, complimentary peanuts and coffee? - bored now - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 11:41 am: Downstate: the problem with the conclusion that you’ve drawn is that if the owner of a 35 year old Illinois firm is migrating to more of an internet model, then his reasons for fleeing illinois (or the midwest entirely) probably has more to do with trying to stay in business than any increase in our income taxes. first of all, the person can easily sell his property here and purchase something 5 times as large in florida, given how depressed the real estate market is. he’s probably looking at a 10,000 square foot home just to keep from paying taxes on the sale of his home (perhaps even larger). a 2900 square foot home with an acre lot and a pool was just sold in orlando for $119,000. but, more importantly, if what you say is true, and he’s trying to migrate his business to the internet, the fact is that illinois has terrible infrastructure for an internet model. there simply aren’t enough people in this state to support high tech companies outside of the financial industry (which is at the low end of high tech). he’ll find a much stronger work force in florida for a high-tech model. he’ll be able to find other resources, which exist in virtually every community in florida, that you can’t even find at the university of chicago in illinois. this state has a serious lack of infrastructure for high tech. i had this conversation with the microsoft tech guru when i was still (forcibly) associated with microsoft. they either import infrastructure or do it elsewhere for the few jobs they have in the chicagoland area. high tech firms fleeing illinois isn’t news. it’s the norm. and it’s not just a lack of government commitment to the industry; the schools here are seriously deficient to building a high tech work force. i don’t see that changing anytime soon. i had hoped to continue my business in technology research when i moved up here a decade ago and i quickly established that there simply wasn’t the resources here to do so. nothing has changed in the last decade; it’s gotten worse (despite the fact that some of the biggest bandwidth in the country goes down the tracks 200 yards from my home)… - Secret Square - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 11:47 am: “Downstate’s” anecdote brings up an important point. Big employers like Mitsubishi can always, or almost always, obtain (if not outright demand) tax breaks from the state or local government that blunt the effect of any tax hikes. Individuals or small businesses, on the other hand, get stuck paying the full rate because they don’t have the resources to obtain or demand these incentives. Their only recourse may be to pack up and move elsewhere. If a special incentive package or tax break saves 2,000 jobs at one plant, while 20 smaller businesses each employing 100 people close down or move due to higher tax rates, what has been gained? Of course the argument is that as long as other states/cities play the special economic incentive game we have to play along as well. But some states have tried, or are trying, something different. Look up what Gov. Rich Snyder is doing in Michigan, for instance. (You may have noticed that he has so far stayed out of the let’s-pile-on-Illinois game being played by some of our other neighbors.) - jerry 101 - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 11:50 am: The only way an Illinois business of enough size to garner headlines departs for New Jersey (or Wisconsin or Indiana, for that matter) is if Jersey does the same thing Illinois does when we lure in businesses from another state. Huge, whopping tax breaks. Just like Boeing and MillerCoors got for relocating to Chicago. Moving a business is freaking expensive - you’ve got to pay relocation costs for lots of key employees, and pay severance to lots of other (soon to be former) employees. There’s the cost of acquiring new office space, and the cost of building it out. If you’re moving a plant(s), then there’s the cost of finding a suitable site and building or renovating to meet your needs. Then there’s the cost of moving a lot of stuff from one location to another. Plus, there’s a massive disruption in your business operations. Moving an entire business to Jersey without huge tax incentives ain’t gonna happen, regardless of whether the regular tax rate in Jersey or Illinois is higher. Same thing with relocating to Indiana or Wisconsin. Moving your business ain’t cheap. And Wisconsin and Indiana lack a lot of the benefits of Illinois (in that regard, Jersey’s a better choice at least) - weaker infrastructure, lower quality workforce, greater distance from many clients and potential clients, greater distance from many suppliers and potential suppliers, etc, etc, etc. At least Jersey’s squeezed in between New York and Philly, so its got some advantages. But its still Jersey. It’s like northwest Indiana, but without the charm. - jerry 101 - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 11:53 am: SS - very good point - I’d also point out, if you haven’t noticed, that Govs Walker and Daniels have laid off the stoopid rhetoric. Chris Christie just likes running up his expense account (he spent more money on travel when he was a USAtty than any other USA in the land, IIRC). He loves getting out of Jersey and he loves being on the teevee. He should have run for Senator instead of Governor, I guess. - wordslinger - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 12:05 pm: SS, very good points. Past studies have shown that a number of big Illinois-based corporations don’t pay any state taxes, anywhere, some years. It seems to me that the state/local giveaway sweepstakes started back in the recession of the early 80s, with the nationwide competition for the Saturn (RIP) plant that eventually went to Tennessee. Every podunk economic development authority in the country put in a bid for that one. Of course, Mistsubishi was considered a big win for Big Jim, who logged a lot of miles to Asia back in those days. FYI, excellent, just-the-facts, AP story on U.S. manufacturing the other day. Some of the facts surprised me. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41349653/ns/business-us_business/ - chi - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 1:14 pm: =the fact is that illinois has terrible infrastructure for an internet model. there simply aren’t enough people in this state to support high tech companies outside of the financial industry = We’re the fifth largest state. That’s not enough people? And also, no snark, what infrastructure/resources do we not have that Florida does? - goaway - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 1:53 pm: That ad cracks me up–of Christie saying to come to NJ move your business. i’m tempted to call the number, say i have a waste hauling business, and ask if i can get big tax breaks if i relocate…or, if the $ i save from illinois taxes i’ll then have to give to the, um, “family”. lmao - Anonie - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 2:31 pm: Alright what is going on, is the GOP mobilizing an invasion? Pawlenty and Gingrich are also in town: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/I/IL_PAWLENTY_CHICAGO_ILOL-?SITE=ILBLO&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/I/IL_REAGAN_CENTENNIAL_ILLINOIS_ILOL-?SITE=ILBLO&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT - wordslinger - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 2:45 pm: –Alright what is going on, is the GOP mobilizing an invasion? Pawlenty and Gingrich are also in town:– Newt somehow thinks he’s the heir to Reagan. He writes articles in which he claims to know how Reagan would have handled current events. It’s pathetic and sad. - Rich Miller - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 3:04 pm: ===Maybe just ignoring them would be the better approach? === This isn’t the Egyptian state media. - bored now - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 3:19 pm: chi: well, the complete lack of infrastructure for high tech concerns was evident when i tried to find some advanced math books that i would have found at the merritt island barnes & noble, and couldn’t even find at the university of chicago. add to it the fact that illinois doesn’t have the kind of work force or even schooling that leads to computer programming or engineering. what you have here, to put it bluntly, are script kiddies, social engineers, not hackers. sorry, but playing a computer game 20 hours a day doesn’t lead one to develop computer games. trying to figure out how the game works, what statistical models are at its foundation, etc leads to that kind of career. it’s not like pushing paper around or building a car. it requires a level of problem-solving that doesn’t get taught in illinois schools. not that i’ve found the kids curious enough to want to make that leap. but, in the end, telling people to look on amazon.com for high-end books doesn’t cut it. if there were a demand here, it would be filled. there simply is no demand, and a lack of curiousity about it. not that there’s much interest in developing a high tech economy here… - Rich Miller - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 3:21 pm: bn, tell that to Google and Groupon, etc. - Rich Miller - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 3:31 pm: But, yeah, we have big problems here, particularly with our education. But this ain’t Kentucky, man. - wordslinger - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 3:36 pm: BN, it’s hard to compete with the renowned academic culture of Florida, Florida State and Miami, but somehow I think U of C, Northwestern, Illinois and other Illinois universities will gie it a shot. Can’t find books? Aren’t you the Internet guy? Maybe Alex Zoghlin and the U of I folks from the Mosaic Project can help. For a guy with a renowned Florida education, you deal in ludicrous generalities quite a bit. - Going nuclear - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 3:40 pm: BN, Are you serious that Illinois doesn’t have any decent computer engineering schools? Tell that to Cisco, Intel, Google, Microsoft, Qualcomm and other firms that are participating in the corporate partnership program at UIUC’s Department of Computer Science and Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering. - Anonie - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 3:46 pm: From the Chicago Suntimes: Chicago Boosts variety of tech-growth groups Local players already working for tech growth include Lightbank, headed by the investor duo behind Groupon - Eric Lefkofsky and Brad Keywell - who have committed to invest in and mentor as many as 10 new companies a year, and incubators Chicago Technology Park, Chicagoland Entrepreneurship Center, the DuPage National Technology Park, Excelerate Labs, iBIO Entrepreneurship Center, Illinois Science and Technology Park, Sandbox Industries, ScaleWell, SYNC Technology Center, the Illinois Technology Association’s TechNexus, the Technology and Innovation Center, and University Technology Park at the Illinois Institute of Technology (IIT). The newly formed Illinois TechnologyAlliance, which includes TechAmerica, the Illinois Venture Capital Association, the Illinois Biotech Industry Organization and the Illinois Science and Technology Coalition, lobbies the Legislature for stronger innovation policies. Networking groups include BNChicago (Business Network Chicago), Chicago Tech Meetup, Chicago Startup Weekend sponsored by IIT¹s Knapp Entrepreneurship Center, the Entrepreneurship and Venture Capital Group at the University of Chicago Booth School of Business, Funding Feeding Frenzy, New Equity Business (NewEquityBusiness.com) and the Tech Cocktail Startup Mixology Conference. http://www.suntimes.com/business/3553234-420/technology-illinois-chicago-center-entrepreneurship.html - VanillaMan - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 4:09 pm: Good Lord, someone is trying to compete with us - that is all. Stop snarling like a bunch of old guard dogs. It is a stunt. Nothing else. - Rich Miller - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 4:12 pm: VMan, yes it is a stunt, as you say. So people should be upset and they have a right to vent. - Downstate - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 4:25 pm: It’s easy to write off millionaires moving out of state, but for small towns like ours, we can’t grow them on trees. They don’t necessarily take up permanent residence in Florida (or other states). Rather,they just have to insure that they are out of Illinois for at least 183 out of the year. For many of their business travels that’s not hard to accomplish. As importantly, as those individuals spend some time in their new “residence” they are not as inclined to donate back to their Illinios community as when they were solely an Illinois citizen. I’m frustrated by the reaction of many on this board to the topic as being “good riddance”. These departures are devastating to small towns like mine. It means we need that many more people to pay for the bloated spending that the state is failing to control. How many millionaires have to leave the state before you think it is a problem? How many jobs do we have to generate to recapture the lost taxes? - Objective Dem - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 4:41 pm: It strikes me that Christie is trying to build a national political base and increase his fundraising. Even though he is attacking Illinois, some here will love him for attacking the dems and the establishment. Its also not a bad strategy because people back in NJ who may not like him won’t want to cross a potential VP or cabinet officer. - wordslinger - Friday, Feb 4, 11 @ 4:43 pm: –Its also not a bad strategy because people back in NJ who may not like him won’t want to cross a potential VP or cabinet officer.– Whose that? Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.