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What happens next?

Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012

* WUIS has posted a very good interview of NRA lobbyist Todd Vandermyde’s reaction to yesterday’s appellate court ruling. Listen to the whole thing

* The AP also has a pretty good roundup of what the NRA and other pro-gun folks want to happen next

The gun rights backers interpreted the 2-1 appellate court ruling as a mandate instructing lawmakers to pass a bill allowing citizens to carry concealed weapons in public with few if any restrictions. Todd Vandermyde, a National Rifle Association lobbyist, said gun control advocates could forget any limits such as partial bans near places such as day care centers and schools.

“It’s over for them. They have no stroke in this game, they have no negotiating power,” Vandermyde said. “When you start drawing circles around all those places — day care centers, schools and parks — that’s a ban and they don’t get a ban. They lost.”

State Rep. Brandon Phelps, who sponsored a restrictive concealed carry bill last year that lost by the slimmest of margins, said gun control advocates are not going to like the next bill they see on the floor of the General Assembly.

“I said on the floor (last year), ‘A lot of people who voted against this, one of these days you’re going to wish you did, because of all the limitations and the safety precautions we put in this bill, because one of these days the court’s going to rule and you’re not going to like the ruling,’” said Phelps, a Democrat. “Today’s the day.”

Richard Pearson, the executive director of the Illinois State Rifle Association, said lawmakers could quickly pass the Phelps bill when they reconvene the first week of January. The bill, he said, “contains all the things — background checks, classroom time — that all the parties wanted, so it’s ready to go.” But that’s not to say all those provisions will be in the bill this time around, he said.

“We bent over backwards before and tried to accommodate everybody, and they just threw it in the garbage,” Pearson said. “Maybe we won’t be so accommodating now.”

* Gun control advocates like House Majority Leader Barbara Flynn Currie now want to craft a much more restrictive law, but the NRA is having none of that

House Majority Leader Barbara Flynn Currie, D-Chicago, a vocal gun-control advocate, said, “If we are required to adopt some form of concealed carry, I would hope we have one that puts strong restrictions on who can carry guns and where they can carry them.”

But jubilant gun-rights advocates warned that, with the court’s ruling and the six-month deadline, they’re unlikely to agree to the kinds of compromises that they have in past debates over concealed carry.

“We don’t have to negotiate anymore … There’s not much else to argue about,” said Todd Vandermyde, the National Rifle Association’s chief Illinois lobbyist, who has been trying for years to get concealed-carry legislation passed in the state. “If they won’t pass a bill … then you could walk down the street with a rifle slung over your back and there’s nothing they can do about it.”

The NRA could, indeed, try to block any sort of “compromise” proposal that it disagrees with, which would mean a permanent injunction against current state law. They have to be taken seriously. Leader Currie cannot continue to dismiss them.

* And Rep. Phelps sounds like he’s ready to deal, but more on his terms than the opposition’s

Phelps would not rule out possibly trying to move concealed carry legislation during the upcoming lame duck legislative session, which runs from Jan. 2 through midday on Jan. 9. But he stopped short of saying how closely a new bill would mimic HB 148.

“In that bill, there were a lot of limitations, a lot of safety guidelines, background checks. But pretty much, this court today didn’t really specify where you can carry, where you can’t. It just sent a mandate that Illinois has to have a concealed carry law in 180 days,” he told the Chicago Sun-Times. “I think we can come to an agreement. I think we can pass sensible legislation.”

* At this point, anyway, we probably shouldn’t expect action in the lame duck session

(A)n aide to Senate President John Cullerton, D-Chicago, hinted at a lengthy legislative response time that could well go beyond the first two weeks of January.

“We’re going to take the time the court has given us to carefully review the ruling and to consult with the attorney general’s office before we determine what legislative action we take on concealed carry,” Cullerton spokeswoman Rikeesha Phelon said.

- Posted by Rich Miller        


59 Comments
  1. - Skeeter - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 11:20 am:

    Curry really committed political malpractice on this one.

    Rule #1: you strike a deal BEFORE a court rules. When the decision is pending, you have leverage.

    She has no leverage now. She blew it. She should be replaced as a leader. She lacks the skills to known how to negotiate.


  2. - reformer - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 11:21 am:

    When the issue is a constitutional right that our liberal friends like, they reject restrictions and narrow opportunities to exercise that right (think: abortion). They even reject notification laws.

    When the press (Mother Tribune) writes about freedom of the press, they want unfettered and full exercise of that constitutional right.

    When it’s our rights under the Second Amendment, by contrast, liberals and editors take a crabbed and narrow approach, seeking to limit those constititonal rights as much as they can get away with.


  3. - Cheryl44 - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 11:34 am:

    Oh give me a break. I don’t hear anyone asking for unfettered access to abortion. I do hear the gun nuts (which is a minority of guy owners IMO) screaming because they’re 2A rights include every single thing that can shoot a projectile including a Blaze. Or possibly a tank.


  4. - Farker - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 11:35 am:

    Good interview with Todd indeed. As I stated multiple times yesterday the left is going to have to get over this issue as will the right with gay marriage. Both will happen and frankly are overdue. As Todd and Rep Phelps stated they will not accept anything less that what they want in the bill, they will block all other attempts at passing other bills that they don’t favor and frankly there is nothing anyone can do to stop them as the alternative is something the left definitely doesn’t want, ie we would basically mirror Arizona in regards to no licensing or training and zero additional revenue.


  5. - He Makes Ryan Look Like a Saint - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 11:36 am:

    One way I can see them limiting is having a large annual fee to have a CC license. It would be interesting to see what the Judicial branch would think of that.

    Also, I am pro gun, but there are areas we do NOT need to carry guns (Churches and Bars/taverns to name a few). To my fellow Pro Gun Advocates, lets not get too carried away.


  6. - Sgtstu - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 11:37 am:

    To the NRA and Phellps, I say give them nothing. That is what they have given us for years. I would like to see a bill for open carry. I would rather be able to see who is armed and who is not. When House Majority Leader Barbara Flynn Currie trys to pass something that is “restrictive” send it to the U.S. Supreme Court and lets just have it all !!!!


  7. - Just askin - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 11:40 am:

    Instead of conceal carry, can the law require that anyone carrying do so openly?


  8. - Skeeter - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 11:44 am:

    “Oh give me a break. I don’t hear anyone asking for unfettered access to abortion.”

    Really? I do. I hear about the right to a third trimester abortion pretty often.

    The left needs to stop the outrage. They lost. Move on.


  9. - CircularFiringSquad - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 11:44 am:

    It may be a “good” interview with Todd, but he still makes no sense. No need to rush. Plenty of need to id which wing nuts to exclude, which fire free zones to establish,what kind of uniforms the 2Aers might be asked to don when they carry weapons outside their homes…How about bright pink holsters? Those orange vest we put on highway workers?
    Does not seem the court is ordering concealed carry in IL
    Should be fun


  10. - Ken_in_Aurora - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 11:48 am:

    @ - Sgtstu - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 11:37 am:

    You’re kinda cute when you get angry because you lost,


  11. - Ken_in_Aurora - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 11:49 am:

    Sorry, forgot the smiley!


  12. - vole - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 11:50 am:

    Those throwing out these juvenile overreactions know that reasonable restrictions will be written into any bill that can pass the IL legislature and be signed by Quinn. Your adrenaline rushes to not provide comfort to the public who are dubious about having more handguns in the hands of those who cannot control their own emotions.


  13. - Confused - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 12:07 pm:

    “Oh give me a break. I don’t hear anyone asking for unfettered access to abortion.”

    Are you kidding? Where have you been for the last decade? Personal PAC does EXACTLY that each and every election.


  14. - D.P. Gumby - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 12:08 pm:

    It’s interesting to hear the NRA keep saying, stop trying to put any limitations on any gun bill, “We won; you lost” and saying the 2nd Amend is absolute like the First Amend. Heller said 2nd wasn’t absolute and reasonable restrictions could apply; Posner direct Illinois to adopt a reasonable bill–if he was going to order no restrictions he would not have given the GA time. Finally, many of the same folks saying “you lost; we won” somehow do not have the same opinion on Roe v. Wade.


  15. - wordslinger - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 12:10 pm:

    Worth repeating:

    –From Scalia’s opinion in Heller: “The Second Amendment right is not unlimited…It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues.” –

    If I understand Todd correctly, he’s saying that he has the votes to block any bill that he doesn’t like. If, after six months, no bill is passed, then Illinois will be like Vermont and have no gun laws.

    I’m not sure it would go down that way, or that fast.

    There’s are possibilities of an en banc appellate ruling and an appeal to the Supreme Court. Even if those don’t happen, if, after six months, the state has not passed a law, it could ask for more time.

    The game is in the fourth quarter and the NRA just scored. But there’s still a lot of time on the clock and the other guys will runs some plays, too.


  16. - Precinct Captain - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 12:14 pm:

    I find it funny that the NRA nuts are already rejecting things such as no gun zones near schools when the court specifically mentioned that as a reasonable limitation.


  17. - Skeeter - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 12:15 pm:

    “Finally, many of the same folks saying “you lost; we won” somehow do not have the same opinion on Roe v. Wade”

    That’s a really broad assumption. I think Roe was well decided. It found a great balance. I like Roe’s framework. It was the Court balancing competing interests in a very reasonable way.


  18. - dupage dan - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 12:16 pm:

    I think that attempts to limit CCW licenses using a very high annual fee will not get by Todd and the NRA. Likewise requiring open carry.

    IMO, concealed carry is better since the bad folks don’t know who’s packing and therefore makes it harder for them to “target” their victims. I note research provided on this blog indicates that most applicants are white males so the perps have that going for them.


  19. - Ken_in_Aurora - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 12:22 pm:

    === - Precinct Captain - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 12:14 pm:

    I find it funny that the NRA nuts are already rejecting things such as no gun zones near schools when the court specifically mentioned that as a reasonable limitation. ===

    You may want to re-read the decision. Pages 15 and 16 make reference to carry in schools, not so-called gun free zones near schools. And what’s with the name calling?


  20. - Todd - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 12:24 pm:

    What happens next?
    First it is up to the AG. She can appeal en banc or go to the Supremes or do nothing, the ball is in her court.

    If she appeals at all she could lose control of the case. If she wins en banc, we will appeal and already have Paul Clement on retainer, please don’t throw me into that briar patch oh please don’t appeal . . .

    That means we get a chance at SCOTUS, and my money is they will rule like the 7th. Then there is a right to carry a gun for self defense outside the home period. Game over.

    And you never know how far they might go in explaining that right. Like I said, please don’t throw me in that briar patch.

    If they decide not to appeal the clock is ticking. In 179 days either the state police will be accepting applications for carry permits or we have a defacto constitutional carry with a FOID card.

    We sat down over two years ago for some very intense and long negotiations with groups. The City said no to any talks. The county wanted some crazy stuff before they even began to talk and didn’t want to. The cops came and sat down and we compromised on issues. I will have some respect for their positions as they did bargain in good faith. But some of those issues will not stick as this is not going to be a punitive or impossible law to comply with.

    They had all of last session to work on a deal. Madam Currie and her ilk have steadfastly refused to recognize the rights enshrined under the 2A. We have attempted many times to reach out to the Governor, I have even asked him myself to sit down for a talk. And we were stiff armed all the way. Fine.

    We warned people what the outcome would be. This dumbass bulldozer operator called it a long time ago – and got it right. There is a down side to this and that is the fact that if the UUW is enjoined from enforcement, you will have 102 states attorneys who will face a very big problem. You will have cops who if they effect an arrest, will face 1983 civil suits. I don’t think Anita has given any thought to the issue that every UUW pending in the system in Cook County, now has a constitutional challenge attached to it, and she better find a way to deal with it, cause any defense attorney or public defender is going to be filing all kinds of motions and reasons to dump the charges.

    Do I want to go off the 2A constitutional cliff? No. But don’t test me, or the people that support our position. We will not take a bad bill. We will not accept New York style or any thing that is not a statewide shall issue bill.

    We were offering millions of dollars in revenue to the state before. Not now. The fees will be scaled back as well. We will be working from a simple premise; your economic status nor zip code you live/work/travel in should not impede your right to carry for self defense. Period.

    We will not allow this to be gamed and played out like pensions or the budget. The simple matter is, they should look at a supplemental for ISP so they can get in front of this now.

    And in case you’re wondering, our lawyers are teed up and ready to oppose any efforts to get the stay extended.

    Mr. Mayor, Governor, you have my cell number. You know how to find me.

    Tick tock tick tock


  21. - Plutocrat03 - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 12:25 pm:

    “a bill for open carry”

    that would work ok.


  22. - amalia - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 12:29 pm:

    what Wordslinger said.


  23. - Shocking - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 12:33 pm:

    I don’t read the decision the way the NRA does. To me, it seems the court was clearly saying you can have restrictions. This we will not negotiate seems somewhat empty. The ga does need the NRA to agree to restrictions to pass them.


  24. - Sgtstu - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 12:37 pm:

    Skeeter - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 11:44 am: - What are you talking about ? I was refering to the NRA and Phellps. Give them Quinn, Madigan and the rest of the boys nothing. Sorry if I was unclear in my post. I am one happy camper !!!


  25. - Todd - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 12:40 pm:

    no one has said their will be no restrictions. what we said is there will be no carve outs for Chicago, cook county. No special treatments. will the prohibitions on carrying in elemtary schools stick, yea.

    But we will have a disscusion about a lot of other things.


  26. - Skeeter - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 12:43 pm:

    Sg,
    I was quoting Cheryl44.


  27. - 332bill - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 12:44 pm:

    Legislation does not have to be concealed carry or open carry, it can be either as in Tennessee. To me, that is preferrable. Let the carrier decide.


  28. - Norseman - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 12:46 pm:

    Todd, I understand your giddiness over the favorable ruling - I hope to have the same pleasure with a court ruling against the SB 1313 and any future pension impairment, however, I would caution not to be too complacent about your favorable position. Madigan can be a very creative and determined tactician. When told he can’t do something, he usually finds a way to get it done. With this he’ll be joined by the “Mayor” and other gun control partisans.

    Good luck as you continue your efforts.


  29. - 47th Ward - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 12:58 pm:

    ===But don’t test me, or the people that support our position. We will not take a bad bill. We will not accept New York style or any thing that is not a statewide shall issue bill.===

    Todd, I congratulated you yesterday on a big win, but please don’t lose sight of your goal. You’re going to get a CC law but you are not going to dictate the terms of it. The more strident and defiant you are, the fewer votes you’ll have. Don’t overplay your hand.

    If it comes down to Phelps’ bill, or even one that’s a bit more restrictive than you’d like, vs no regulation at all in 179 days, there will be enough votes to pass something instead of nothing.

    Enjoy your victory lap, but don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.


  30. - JKing - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 12:58 pm:

    I would really prefer concealed over open carry, while my wife, and kids for that matter, are well trained in the use of handguns, i’d be worried about her walking to her car in a parking lot and a group walking behind her decide she’d be an easy target for a free gun that they can see on her hip in plain view. I’d much rather it was in her purse or concealed on her hip.


  31. - Cheryl44 - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 12:59 pm:

    ~I hear about the right to a third trimester abortion pretty often.~

    Not for everyone. Third trimester abortions are only prescribed for women who are having a catastrophic pregnancy. These are people who have generally done things like picked out names or decorated the nursery only to find out it’s not going as planned. In other words, a third trimester abortion is an unavoidable tragedy and we should sympathize with the woman and her partner the way we do when there is a miscarriage or stillbirth.


  32. - Precinct Captain - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 1:01 pm:

    @Ken: I meant zones as in school property. For example, a park located adjacent to a school that is part of a school’s property. A limitation at the school reasonably extends to such a park. Referring to “zones” though was confusing since it’s normally used to refer to the bans within a certain radius from a school, which are regulated by the revised GFSZA (after Lopez) and are still intact.

    I also take back none of “nuts” comment. Read over the rantings of people like Wayne LaPierre. Those types of people permeate the major pro-gun groups. While there may be a “silent majority” who don’t hold those kinds of extremist views, they sure aren’t pushing the agenda.


  33. - Deep South - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 1:03 pm:

    Are these “carriers” gonna be required to take out some sort of liability insurance? I mean, if some un-trained, hero-wannabe forgets to engage his weapon’s safety, or some over-zealous video game addict tries to take out a “bad” guy, and I’m hit by a random, stray “accidental” shot, I’m gonna own his house and everything in it. And maybe the NRA, too. Or my wife will.


  34. - Todd - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 1:03 pm:

    no body is looking for pefect. I will be very happy with good.

    That said I don’t consider 148 Good. it was a compromise.


  35. - Skeeter - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 1:03 pm:

    Precinct Captain are you really claiming that it is only the pro gun people who go on crazy rants?

    Did you see the tape of Anita Alvarez that was posted yesterday?


  36. - 47th Ward - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 1:10 pm:

    ===That said I don’t consider 148 Good. it was a compromise.===

    It might look better in a few months. You’re starting your roll call from scratch now. This ruling and the deadline changes everything. And after January 9, you have a whole lot of newbies to deal with under the very bright lights of what will be the highest profile piece of legislation of the year. You’re about to become famous Todd and you’re going to need a good pr firm.


  37. - Wensicia - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 1:12 pm:

    ==Enjoy your victory lap, but don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.==

    Good advice, and don’t make threats.


  38. - Ronbo - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 1:35 pm:

    I certainly hope that Gov. Quinn thinks he is going to get a trade here…

    CHICAGO (AP) — Gov. Pat Quinn says his office will work with the General Assembly to fashion concealed carry legislation that protects public safety.
    Quinn’s comments came one day after a federal appeals court ruled Illinois’ ban is unconstitutional. The court gave lawmakers 180 days to come up with a law legalizing the concealed carry of weapons.
    Speaking at a news conference in Chicago, Quinn said he’ll let Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan decide whether to appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court.
    The governor says he will insist any Illinois law include “reasonable restrictions,” such as prohibiting people with a history of mental illness from having the weapons. He says his office will review other states’ laws.
    Quinn also renewed his call for a ban on assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition magazines.


  39. - Ronbo - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 1:36 pm:

    That should say “doesn’t think” oops!


  40. - Todd - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 1:37 pm:

    47 — you’re hired.

    already looked at the new GA and I like what I see. A Lot


  41. - Sgtstu - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 2:09 pm:

    332 bill - (Legislation does not have to be concealed carry or open carry, it can be either as in Tennessee. To me, that is preferrable. Let the carrier decide) I like this idea alot, hey Tod check it out, the ideas of conceal or open carry are taken care of this way !


  42. - reformer - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 2:10 pm:

    Cheryl44
    When has Personal PAC ever agreed to compromise on parental notification or partial birth abortion? Pro-choicers are absolutists. But you insist gun owners must compromise the rights that are precious to them.


  43. - Pot calling kettle - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 2:14 pm:

    There will be a bill, but I think that the gun advocates need to be careful not to go too far. The bill will be carried by the folks in the middle who will not want a 2014 opponent to campaign on them allowing guns near schools or in city parks. Votes on issues like this become campaign ads very easily and the bill that passes will be more moderate than either Todd or Currie would prefer.

    I would add that while the court ruling is important, so was the recent mall shooting and the heavy gun violence in Chicago. I don’t think the GA will just roll over on this.


  44. - Todd - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 2:17 pm:

    Well knock me over with a feather.

    Governor, you amazed me. Lets have a beer and talk.

    with that, I think I am going to call it a day.


  45. - wordslinger - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 2:37 pm:

    Todd, yesterday it was “we don’t have to negotiate anymore… they have no stroke… they lost…”.

    Today, it was “governor, mayor, you have my number, let’s talk.”

    About what?


  46. - titan - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 2:52 pm:

    @Pot - the mall shooting was doen with a stolen rifle. Chicago gun violence is done by people already violating several laws (generally).

    The new law crafted would not affect either of those - except maybe to allow some of the law-abiding victims a chance to fight back (and maybe end the carnage of a particular incident sooner).


  47. - Rod - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 3:08 pm:

    I for one am totally glad the NRA is opposing a carve out for Chicago. I think all of those predicting Chicago will be like the wild west once concealed carry is enacted haven’t been watching the news from my city every night. Its the wild west every other night and even off duty cops are getting shot down like dogs.

    I do not expect having a concealed carry law or for that matter an open carry law will lower or increase Chicago’s murder rate. The kids and young adults who are doing the shooting right now do not really care whether or not who they are shooting at is packing a gun. I you shoot first in a drive by the fact that your victim has a concealed handgun is really meaningless.


  48. - wordslinger - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 3:23 pm:

    –I think all of those predicting Chicago will be like the wild west once concealed carry is enacted haven’t been watching the news from my city every night. Its the wild west every other night and even off duty cops are getting shot down like dogs.–

    Those people are? And you really believe people aren’t aware of gun violence on the South and West sides?

    I call Strawman.

    And speaking of straw, if you are concerned about gun violence in Chicago, I’m sure you’ll join in an initiative to put the heat on the straw buyers who purchase the guns — legally — from a handful of suburban gun shops, then claim they were “lost” or “stolen” when they are recovered after shootings in Chicago.

    They just didn’t bother to report the losses or thefts before. Happens to all of us — thousands of dollars of property are stolen and we don’t report it. Not even to our insurance carriers.


  49. - Confused - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 3:34 pm:

    Nope. Not willing to buy into any of YOUR strawmen anymore.


  50. - titan - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 3:39 pm:

    @ wordslinger - the folk who are illegally getting the guns to the unqualified Chicagoans should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law (illegal/unreported sales, conspiracy, accessories to the killings, RICO, etc.).


  51. - Ronbo - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 3:50 pm:

    Careful Todd… Any union member in Illinois can tell you for a fact that Quinn can’t be trusted!


  52. - David M. Bennett - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 4:25 pm:

    Todd,

    Constitutional Carry is the way to go. Let the 180 day Stay expire. Please allow Illinois to join Vermont, Arizona, Alaska, etc. There is now no reason that the good Citizens of Illinois should have any less Rights than the residents of these other States.


  53. - Precinct Captain - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 4:45 pm:

    @Skeeter

    Quote me where I claimed “only the pro gun people” go on crazy rants. I just specifically pointed out the leadership of major gun rights groups, like Wayne LaPierre, have a propensity to go on rants amounting to 1) Obama’s gonna steal our guns 2) Obama’s secretly working with the UN to steal our guns 3) don’t believe the fact that gun rights have increased under Obama, he’s just lulling you into a false sense of security to steal your guns! 4) Obama wants to erase the second amendment in order to steal your guns

    If you’re looking for something slamming the opposite side: there are some gun control groups that do seek virtual elimination of gun use and use weird rants as a tool to advance their cause. However, no one from that fringe is setting any agendas in any state or court across the country. Anita Alvarez might be an elected official, but if I were to take her anti-gun leadership and judge the results she’s gotten, she’d get the worst grade possible, 0/100, F, 0.0/4.0 or whatever.

    No anti-gun group with equivalent political power and status to the NRA has leaders making claims like Wayne LaPierre.


  54. - Skeeter - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 4:49 pm:

    Precinct Captain,

    You are joking, right?

    Illinois, and Chicago in particular, has the most strict guns laws in the nation. Yes, when it comes to guns Illinois is run by the fringe.

    You really think they are a bunch of calm moderates?

    Yes, gun people can go off the deep end. But so has the other side.

    Referring to one group as “gun nuts” ignores the fact that when it comes to guns, nobody on either side in Illinois has been rational.


  55. - Not a HACK - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 7:05 pm:

    wordslinger@3:23 pm - “I call Strawman.”

    You mean like when you referenced the Colorado theater shootings in your postings yesterday?


  56. - steve schnorf - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 10:37 pm:

    Of course I don’t know most of you on here, or at least I don’t know that I know you(anonymity, you know), but I would be pretty surprised if many of you are better vote counters than Todd.


  57. - Pot calling kettle - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 10:43 pm:

    ==the mall shooting was doen with a stolen rifle. Chicago gun violence is done by people already violating several laws ==

    For better or worse, the general public does not pay much attention to the details. Such events swing the public opinion and move the legislative middle ground. There is always the potential for a news event to push things one direction or the other; however, bad things with guns tend to get more play.


  58. - Precinct Captain - Thursday, Dec 13, 12 @ 3:49 pm:

    @Skeeter, how are the Illinois and Chicago lawmakers doing in the courts? Concealed carry on the horizon in Illinois. I’d really call that the anti-gun crowd setting the agenda. Not.


  59. - Skeeter - Thursday, Dec 13, 12 @ 4:22 pm:

    They are doing terribly. They pass lousy laws and the courts toss them out.

    What’s your point?


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        * Google Makes Another Media Bet, with a Venture Investment in Music Publishing
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        * First week of camp in the books for improved White Sox
        * Maximizing speed Coleman's mission with White Sox
        * Davidson reclaims zeal for game, confidence
        * Terrerobytes: Jose Quintana shows up on the radar
        * Coleman infuses passion for baserunning into discussion
        * Melky aims to be catalyst from No. 2 spot
        * White Sox feel pain of Bulls', Blackhawks' injuries

        ...............


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