SUBSCRIBE to Capitol Fax      Advertise Here      Mobile Version     Exclusive Subscriber Content     Updated Posts    Contact
CapitolFax.com
To subscribe to Capitol Fax, click here.
*** UPDATED x1 *** Caption contest!

Thursday, Jan 17, 2013

* These signs are all over Springfield. I took this pic before I went inside a restaurant last night…

*** UPDATE *** Finke

AFSCME says it’s behind “We Support State Employees” signs in businesses. Signs going up around state, it says.

- Posted by Rich Miller        


58 Comments
  1. - OneMan - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 9:43 am:

    Seems like a bit of a no brainer down there, who provided the signs?


  2. - so... - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 9:45 am:

    Serious question - is there a paid-for disclaimer on those signs?

    The reason I ask is I’m wondering whether this is a spontaneous show of support, or something AFSCME is pressuring business owners to do a la Wisconsin - http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703806304576232780047736062.html


  3. - Crime Fighter - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 9:47 am:

    I hope these businesses renounce the State and local Chambers of Commerce who have come out against both private and state workers.


  4. - Colossus - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 9:48 am:

    I saw one at Homestyle Cafe yesterday, but people were sitting in the booth next to it, preventing me from inspecting for a Paid For. The image posted above looks like it has a union bug at the bottom, but I’m still interested in exactly who paid for them.


  5. - Huh? - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 9:48 am:

    Finally!


  6. - Fan of the Game - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 9:49 am:

    A bit of a loaded question, is it not?

    Does it mean that they support state employees in their fight for their pensions and jobs?

    Or does it mean they support state employees by paying taxes and providing for the salaries and benefits that state employees receive?

    Hmmmm…..


  7. - Skeeter - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 9:50 am:

    It goes on to read: “sort of like we support our children, who also cost us a lot and do not do much work but at times can be pleasant to have around.”


  8. - Roamin' Numeral - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 9:51 am:

    Sign indicating support for state government employees = good.

    Sign indicating a prime rib special by showing a valid state government employee ID = even better!


  9. - Give Me A Break - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 9:52 am:

    Somewhere there must be small print that says, “as a business owner I believe in less and smaller govertment, just not the kind that means less state workers spending money at my business”.


  10. - Liberty_First - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 9:54 am:

    I’m not very sure it would have to have a funding disclaimer given what it says.


  11. - Wensicia - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 9:57 am:

    Translation: We’ll be supporting a Quinn primary opponent?


  12. - quincy - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 9:59 am:

    Good, Like to have one for my business. I have alot of good state employee’s who come into my business.


  13. - dave - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 10:00 am:

    Seriously? We’re wondering who paid for these? Or course AFSCME paid for them. And no, there is no legal obligation for AFSCME to say that state on the sign that they paid for them.


  14. - Skeptic - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 10:00 am:

    Or maybe “State Employees” is a new CBA basketball team? Ok, I’m on a roll here….the point guard (who is captain of the team) has no idea how to play basketball. The center just holds on to the ball and won’t let the others play unless it’s to his own benefit. The two forwards (both Republicans) are rarely seen and are considered irrelevant to the team. As for the other point guard…

    Now *there’s* a team we can support!


  15. - Anonymous - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 10:00 am:

    Saw one at a downtown bar on Inauguration Day. Saw the Governor leaving that bar later in the night. Think he noticed the sign?


  16. - walkinfool - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 10:01 am:

    We all do.


  17. - Tonto - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 10:01 am:

    The other side reads “67% more and growing”


  18. - WizzardOfOzzie - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 10:03 am:

    “We support you. Please come in and eat our crappy horseshoe.”


  19. - OneMan - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 10:03 am:

    Ok so caption contest time then….

    We Support State Employees…

    Because we pay taxes…
    All accept that Quinn guy…
    Ok, I put the sign up, will you stop picketing me now?


  20. - Secret Square - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 10:03 am:

    “We support state employees — and so do you.”


  21. - Fan - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 10:03 am:

    I’m betting you didn’t see this at a Quinnsnos Sub Shop.


  22. - Ahoy! - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 10:05 am:

    I see these too; I’m not sure exactly what they mean. I support State employees while supporting pension reform and retirees paying for healthcare on a sliding scale based on income.


  23. - CircularFiringSquad - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 10:07 am:

    Do they really? Or do they just do that to lure them and milk away the money? Of course the medical community supports them to buts demands they pay up front rather wait the 500 days for the state check.
    Who gets credit for this brainstorm?
    Does Ty Fahner and The Millionaires boycott these establishments.
    So many questions.
    Capt Fax —- get back out there with your notebook and nubby pencils. Get some facts pronto.
    And do before the workforce starts to wash up at 3:45!


  24. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 10:08 am:

    “…we just don’t want your pension funded!”

    “…except those who vote in the GA”

    “…and serving Mushroom too!”

    “…Now, federal employeess are a different story.”

    “…and you have a 37 minute wait, just like the support you give.”

    “… but y’all can’t move in!”

    “… but, what, I gave you $20 last week, and …”

    “…except state paid college sports coaches who leave”

    “…so why do we keep getting speeding tickets on I-55?”

    “…because our religion says help the downtrodden.”

    “…unless they are currently involved in a federal trial. THAT is our line.”

    “…especially those who aren’t ‘clouted’ into jobs. Signed, John Kass.”

    “…and we are serving ‘Pat Quinn Open Two-Face Sandwiches too!”


  25. - Sgtstu - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 10:08 am:

    Skeeter - Cheap shot. To try and say all State employees do not do much work is small minded. I think you are better than that. Your attempt at humor at the cost of others is sad.


  26. - Fan of the Game - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 10:14 am:

    We support state employees….but, man, you’re getting heavy!


  27. - Crime Fighter - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 10:15 am:

    You go Willy!
    “…and we are serving ‘Pat Quinn Open Two-Face Sandwiches too!”
    That may end-up as a menu item!


  28. - Anonymour - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 10:17 am:

    You missed the most important aspect of the signs. Each has been treated with a powerful snake-repellant.


  29. - redleg - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 10:20 am:

    It’s for certain neither the Springfield Journal Register or the Bloomington Pantagraph were involved in it. Or for that matter any other daily newsprint in Illinois.


  30. - Irish - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 10:20 am:

    To the businesses who posted the signs - “Thank you”.

    Sgtstu - Thank you! spot on!


  31. - schwartzee - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 10:23 am:

    …and they support your local business.


  32. - Irish - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 10:25 am:

    While recently visiting a local restaurant Gov. Quinn began to see signs of the will of the people. Shortly after that he gave a press conference and stated “My goal is to make the will of the people who agree with me the law of the land.”


  33. - Scott Thorsen - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 10:25 am:

    Do state employees support us?

    Is the state going to reduce its payroll this year.


  34. - Plutocrat03 - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 10:25 am:

    Funny, I though that all taxpayers support State employees


  35. - olddog - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 10:30 am:

    @ Fan of the Game 9:49 - ‘Or does it mean they support state employees by paying taxes and providing for the salaries and benefits that state employees receive? -

    Do state employees pay taxes? Do they support local businesses? Just askin’.


  36. - RNUG - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 10:30 am:

    Been seeing more of these around Springfield, usually at the smaller locally owned businesses.

    I know the restaurant I was in yesterday has always had a lot of state empoyees / retirees as lunch customers. A few of the restaurants even have 1/2 price specials for government employees / retirees with IDs on their slower days, like Monday.


  37. - Skeeter - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 10:33 am:

    Sgtstu,
    Have you thought about obtaining a sense of humor? Apparently we are not allowed to laugh at state employees?
    Lighten up, Sgt. It is just a joke.


  38. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 10:34 am:

    “…but we still won’t cash your state paycheck here anyone.”

    “…but does it take 4 of you to pick up everyone in the office’s lunch?

    “…just stop parking your state cars in our Loading Zones.”

    “… we even have gambling machines here to prove it.”

    “…and if we were you, forget about retiring anytime soon. Sorry.”

    “…and out Alphabet Soup is missing the ‘C’, the ‘M’ and the ‘S’. You’re welcome.”


  39. - Small Town Liberal - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 10:35 am:

    - Your attempt at humor at the cost of others is sad. -

    Isn’t most humor at someone’s expense? Lighten up, fellas, no need to lose your sense of humor along with your pension.


  40. - Bluefish - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 10:50 am:

    …and the higher taxes to support them.


  41. - the Patriot - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 10:51 am:

    “…because the private sector jobs are in IN.”

    Rich, was this “restaurant” you were at also called a soup kitchen?” The way AFSCME talks that is the only place state workers can afford to eat.


  42. - VanillaMan - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 10:55 am:

    Businesses Discovering State Employee Paychecks Keep Them In Business


  43. - wordslinger - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 10:56 am:

    “…but no personal checks or tabs.”


  44. - Huggybunny - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 10:56 am:

    because…when you give your word/sign a contract it should “still” mean something…even in the State of Illinois.


  45. - Bemused - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 10:58 am:

    And the question would be, Do State Employees make any real effort to support non-public organized labor?

    Also what would a Pat Quinn horseshoe consist of?


  46. - Anon - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 10:58 am:

    “We support state employees… no matter what the cost!”


  47. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 11:03 am:

    “…because Springfield loves its Peeps!”

    “…because this ain’t Wisconsin!”

    “…because ‘moral’ support is affordable right now.”

    “… they are the only state asset that pays on time!”

    “… because when you think about, aren’t we all state employees?”

    “… it’s the State Bosses we are mad at!”

    “… even when they go into the ‘back when I started’ mode.”

    “… so that we all can help the state’s unemployees!”


  48. - Hank - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 11:07 am:

    “We support state employees…just not the ones in our state!


  49. - BMAN - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 11:18 am:

    Maybe the sign should say “We support state employees, but not the pork hidden in budgets!”


  50. - zatoichi - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 11:42 am:

    … so help us stay in business by shopping here.


  51. - Steve Bartin - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 12:04 pm:

    They sure do! Their business depends on government workers.


  52. - Endangered Moderate Species - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 2:46 pm:

    “We support our State employees and all other Springfield industry. Wait, is there other industry in Springfield?”


  53. - 47th Ward - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 3:11 pm:

    We support state employees when they’re opening their wallets, but not when we have to open ours.


  54. - Colossus - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 4:13 pm:

    If anyone’s paying attention, I checked one today and there’s no other printing besides what you see in the pic above and the union bug. The owner of the establishment was not forthcoming in identifying who dropped it off, nor did she seem like she was hiding it. I think someone asked to put it up and she said yes, no mention of outside groups.


  55. - annon - Thursday, Jan 17, 13 @ 5:05 pm:

    We support the state workers…they are part of our communities ,our neighbors & friends, still employed, put money into our local economies & yes pay taxes too(an extra couple % this pay period I might add).


  56. - KurtInSpringfield - Friday, Jan 18, 13 @ 7:18 am:

    My vote is for Oswego Willy as winner of this contest.

    I actually laughed out loud at this one which I consider the winner:

    “…and we are serving ‘Pat Quinn Open Two-Face Sandwiches too!”

    As a State Employee, I would give this one 1st runner up. I only chuckled at this one:

    “…and out(sic) Alphabet Soup is missing the ‘C’, the ‘M’ and the ‘S’. You’re welcome.”

    Thanks OW for the early morning laugh.


  57. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Jan 18, 13 @ 7:40 am:

    Glad you enjoyed those & I helped with an early morning laugh.

    Sorry for the spelling! Have a good day.


  58. - thunder - Friday, Jan 18, 13 @ 8:48 am:

    If there was two diners by each other and one sign was in them and no sign in the other one. I would patronize the one with the sign!!!


Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.


* Cross endorsed by Democratic mayor
* Et tu, Cubbies?
* Cutting to the chase
* Welcome to the NFL, rookie
* *** UPDATED x1 *** This just in... Court keeps Libertarians on ballot
* Callis releases new negative ad
* FactCheck.org calls Schilling ad "shamefully misleading"
* Rauner zeroing in on 20 IDOT workers
* SUBSCRIBERS ONLY - Supplement to today’s edition: Crosstabs, mailers, latest cable TV buys
* SUBSCRIBERS ONLY - Today's edition of Capitol Fax (use all CAPS in password)
* Yesterday's blog posts

Support CapitolFax.com
Visit our advertisers...

...............

...............


Search This Blog...

Search the 98th General Assembly By Bill Number
(example: HB0001)

Search the 98th General Assembly By Keyword

          
        * Developing Stories: Game developer Imran Shafiq
        * OnePlus explains upcoming no-invite-required pre-order process
        * Reveal Chat For iOS Helps You Build Real, Social Connections Via Anonymous Chat
        * HTC Nexus 9 launch date teased for mid-October
        * Twilio Adds Low-Cost, Two-Way MMS Picture Messaging To Its API Cloud
        * Galaxy “Alpha” A500 spotted in TENAA with specs in tow
        * Apple updates privacy policy: 'We sell great products,' not your data, says Tim Cook

        * Villy Recommends the Best Areas and Hotels Based on Travel Preferences
        * Bing Predicts Scotland Will Remain In The U.K.
        * Motorola Droid Turbo Might Be New Fast Charging Handset
        * Hop on the Juice Train, Upgrade to 4K, Groom Your Entire Face [Deals]
        * Amazon Beats Google With $4.6 Million Bid for “.Buy” Domain
        * Check an Email's Salutation to Avoid Phishing Scams
        * A design arms race: Apple & Google stock up

        * Royals offense unflappable, even against Chris Sale
        * Konerko, White Sox stop at the Trop to face Rays
        * Sale roughed up by Royals, loses AL ERA lead
        * Royals 6, White Sox 2: Chris Sale roughed up
        * Abreu's stolen base overturned by Royals' challenge
        * Konerko expected to get at-bats against Rays
        * Wilkins struggling in first big league exposure


        Main Menu
        Home
        Illinois
        YouTube
        Pundit rankings
        Obama
        Subscriber Content
        Durbin
        Burris
        Blagojevich Trial
        Advertising
        Updated Posts
        Polls

        Archives
        September 2014
        August 2014
        July 2014
        June 2014
        May 2014
        April 2014
        March 2014
        February 2014
        January 2014
        December 2013
        November 2013
        October 2013
        September 2013
        August 2013
        July 2013
        June 2013
        May 2013
        April 2013
        March 2013
        February 2013
        January 2013
        December 2012
        November 2012
        October 2012
        September 2012
        August 2012
        July 2012
        June 2012
        May 2012
        April 2012
        March 2012
        February 2012
        January 2012
        December 2011
        November 2011
        October 2011
        September 2011
        August 2011
        July 2011
        June 2011
        May 2011
        April 2011
        March 2011
        February 2011
        January 2011
        December 2010
        November 2010
        October 2010
        September 2010
        August 2010
        July 2010
        June 2010
        May 2010
        April 2010
        March 2010
        February 2010
        January 2010
        December 2009
        November 2009
        October 2009
        September 2009
        August 2009
        July 2009
        June 2009
        May 2009
        April 2009
        March 2009
        February 2009
        January 2009
        December 2008
        November 2008
        October 2008
        September 2008
        August 2008
        July 2008
        June 2008
        May 2008
        April 2008
        March 2008
        February 2008
        January 2008
        December 2007
        November 2007
        October 2007
        September 2007
        August 2007
        July 2007
        June 2007
        May 2007
        April 2007
        March 2007
        February 2007
        January 2007
        December 2006
        November 2006
        October 2006
        September 2006
        August 2006
        July 2006
        June 2006
        May 2006
        April 2006
        March 2006
        February 2006
        January 2006
        December 2005
        April 2005
        March 2005
        February 2005
        January 2005
        December 2004
        November 2004
        October 2004

        Blog*Spot Archives
        November 2005
        October 2005
        September 2005
        August 2005
        July 2005
        June 2005
        May 2005

        Syndication

        RSS Feed 2.0
        Comments RSS 2.0
        WordPress

        Loading


        * Judge: Libertarian candidate can be on ballot..
        * GOP picnic turnout gets bounce from Rauner..
        * Judge: Libertarian gubernatorial candidate can .....
        * The early campaigner gets the numbers..
        * Jeb Bush stumps for Illinois GOP candidate..
        * Chicago Is The Best Drinking City In The Whole .....
        * Ruling Expected on Libertarian's Place on Ballot..


        * Illinois school resumes classes after gas leak
        * ComEd settles for $46M with state of Illinois
        * 2 college students drowned in Naperville quarry
        * Judge: Libertarian candidate can be on ballot
        * Company wants to drill for oil in McLean County
        * Jeb Bush stumps for Illinois GOP candidate
        * Crestwood seeks to settle contaminated water suits
        * Work near on Indiana berm to block Asian carp
        * Highland teachers, district resume negotiations
        * Wallenda: Spectacle, legacy inspire Chicago walk

        * Sangamon Co. judge: Libertarian candidate for governor can stay on ballot
        * Jeb Bush headlining Chicago fundraiser for Rauner
        * Rochester resident to lead State Board of Elections
        * GOP appeal seeks to knock Libertarian gubernatorial candidate off ballot
        * Jesse White to focus on technology, highway safety if re-elected
        * Rauner’s ethics reform plan targets lobbyists, lawmakers
        * White to focus on technology, highway safety in fifth term
        * Quinn blasts NFL owners with dig at Rauner
        * Hundreds apply for jobs at northern Illinois federal prison
        * Rauner questions medical marijuana program secrecy

        * ComEd to refund $46 million in settlement
        * Dunkin' Donuts tests recyclable plastic
        * Dunkin' looks to replace foam cups with recyclable-plastic
        * Danica Patrick talks about 'crashing in Chicago
        * AbbVie sued by pension fund over Shire deal


        * Drug dealer held accountable in Chicago cop’s murder, gets 35 years in prison
        * 16-year-old is second person charged in fatal home invasion
        * NU prof realizing genius grant is no prank
        * Tightwalk across the Chicago River is ‘real deal’
        * 16 suburban firefighters stranded in Mexico after hurricane
        * Salami-smuggling mob enforcer gets 15 years for gun rap
        * Trump happy over Emanuel crackdown on signs
        * Highland Park woman gets 5 years for killing 5-year-old girl
        * Probation officer suspended after teen’s assault on CSU student
        * Alleged “Orange is the New Black” kingpin must come to Chicago, court rules


        * Gang leader held responsible in '08 slayings of officer, companion
        * Cops: Boy, 15, went missing 2 days ago from Southwest Side
        * 16 Hoffman Estates firefighters among those stranded at Mexican resort
        * Mayor: New high school won't be named after President Obama
        * 4 teens charged in fatal shooting at River Oaks Mall
        * Double shooting in Cragin: 'What happened? What do you mean?'
        * Roseland Hospital sued for firing pregnant employee
        * Minimum wage hike backers seek support of North Side aldermen
        * Wallenda has some hurdles to cross before his river walk
        * Unborn baby of suspect in Bali suitcase murder gets a lawyer


        * Humanities Film Series Kicks Off In Jacksonville
        * Court Ruling Could Impact Governor's Race
        * Indicted police commander suspended from duty 11 times, records show
        * Despite Outbreak, Illinois Virus Cases Remain Low - Why?
        * Teen Arrested For Threat Against Glenwood High School
        * I Like Illinois Website Debuts, In Time For The Election
        * Cullerton: I LIKE Illinois!
        * Springfield Art Co-Op Founder "Blossoms" On East Coast
        * Springfield Mayor Houston Points Out Sewer Improvements
        * Mayor: We Are Doing Sewer Work


        * Jeb Bush headlining Chicago fundraiser for Rauner
        * Christopher Mooney: Evidence in policymaking — no cure-all, but better than the alternative
        * Eugene Robinson: Hillary Clinton needs to tell us her vision
        * George Will: Obama needs Congress to approve this war
        * On Lincoln’s Side: Washington’s close call
        * Bernard Schoenburg: New poll, AFSCME nod help change narrative
        * Rochester resident to lead State Board of Elections
        * GOP appeal seeks to knock Libertarian gubernatorial candidate off ballot
        * Jesse White to focus on technology, highway safety if re-elected
        * Rauner’s ethics reform plan targets lobbyists, lawmakers


        * 09-18-14 Penny for Your Thoughts
        * 09-18-14 @Busey Money Talk
        * Nelda Ross
        * Highland teachers, district resume negotiations
        * Sears at Hickory Point Mall closing in December
        * Six arrested in two separate sexual assaults at SIU
        * Crestwood seeks to settle contaminated water suits
        * Jeb Bush stumps for Rauner
        * Fed keeps rates low, but brace for the inevitable
        * California wildfire shows explosive growth


        * Cubs leaving Kane County Cougars for South Bend
        * Cubs leave Kane County Cougars for South Bend
        * Mike North video: Goodell's credibility is shot
        * Lincoln Logs manufacturing coming home to U.S.
        * Amazon unveils new tablets for kids, readers, business

        * Luis Gutiérrez: Securing Border a Derelict...
        * Sean Hannity Battles Illinois Democrat Lui...
        * Fox's Hannity spars with Democrat over thr...
        * Democratic candidate Mason says he's 'flip...
        * Hannity Battles Rep. Gutierrez: 'Not Contr...
        * Ask Peter: Obamacare's Broken Promises - I...
        * Luis Gutierrez: Securing border 'sounds go...
        * Hultgren, Roskam to Host Service Academy D...
        * Luis Gutierrez: Must Pass Immigration Refo...
        * Peter Roskam pushes for Alzheimer's resear...

        * Top Dem Says Another Big ISIS Vote is Comi......
        * Lab Day Highlight Labs' Contribution to U.......
        * Lab Day Highlight Labs’ Contribution to U.......
        * US Secretary of State Kerry: ISIL sells oi......
        * US Secretary of State Kerry: ISIL sells oi......

        * Mary Cheney: Equality can only be achieved......
        * Senate unanimously confirms John Bass as t......

        * Comment on Illinois Straw Poll: Another Faux Ron Paul Straw Poll Victory by KAPT BLASTO
        * Comment on Food Stamp Sign-ups in Obama’s Illinois Larger Than State’s Job Growth by » Food Stamp Sign-ups in Obama’s Illinois Larger Than State’s Job Growth
        * Denzel Ford police shooting 1
        * This Analyst Has Bank Industry's Number
        * CEO Dimon Not Buying Wall Street Hype
        * Paging George Bailey, You Have A Call
        * From A Tiny ACORN, Scandal Grows
        * Starbucks Brewing Health Care Cuts?
        * Hang On! Economy Hasn't Hit Bottom Yet
        * Tribune Tower? Nice Condo With View


        * Quinn Misleads Public on IDOT Again
        * Rauner Launches New TV Ad: 100 Years
        * 100 Years
        * Bruce Rauner Announces Ethics Blueprint
        * Across Illinois, They’re Talking About Pat Quinn’s Corruption




            Hosted by MCS SUBSCRIBE to Capitol Fax Advertise Here Mobile Version Contact Rich Miller