54 Comments - Nieva - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 11:23 am: I am watching wells being drilled all over Gallatin Co. Vertical fracking is being used in almost all these operations. I think this bill will help keep some of the surface water cleaner because they have to store their chemicals in tanks now instead of open pits. So far the oil industry has been a good neighbor to the people in our area. If you go to the local courthouse it is full of agents working on leases. If somebody really wants to help the tourism industry in Southern Illinois get the state to have IDOT and the prison work camps back to picking up the trash on the road sides. They used to work together and now it has been at least 5 years since that has occurred. - Excessively Rabid - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 11:28 am: So the anti-frackers think anything less than their dream scenario is treason. In that, they’re just like everyone else. - red eft - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 11:32 am: Notably 5 southern Illinois counties voted for a moratorium on fracking: Johnson, Pope, Hardin, Union and Jackson. These are many of the counties where fracking is likely to occur. Down here it feels a lot like environmental groups based in Chicago negotiated this bill without a lot of local input. I believe the bill prevents local control or moratoriums. So, in many ways this was adopted over the objections of the people in the areas most affected. - Empty Chair - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 11:34 am: For the record, Dr. Lora Chamberlin is way out there. I’ve had the pleasure (snark) of having her volunteer on a few campaigns I’ve worked on. She comes in through field folks or to phone banks, and instead of knocking or calling, she proceeds to tell the staff how the official/candidate they’re working for is wrong on X issue, and berate them while they’re trying to do their job. Had to ask her not to come back once. - Downstate - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 11:40 am: 1950 - the first “fracking” being done on oil wells in America. 1,000,000 - number of current “fracked” oil wells currently operating in the US. Most people don’t realize that “fracking” is a one time occurrence. Water, and a small amount of chemicals are put into the hole to open up the seams in the deep crevices of the well. It’s only held in suspense for a few hours or days before it’s removed. Then it’s all recovered and the well starts producing. - Loop Lady - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 11:54 am: It would be great if rational thoughtful people with legitimate concerns were quoted on the blog on this issue…tanks leak, or can be punctured, and then guess where the water goes? - red eft - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 12:04 pm: Downstate, while fracking was done in the 50’s, this was vertical fracking. What is being done now and what is proposed in Southern Illinois is horizontal fracking. Here is a discussion of some of the differences. http://longmontroar.org/oilgas-development-fracking/frequently-asked-questions/ Southern Illinois is a seismically active region and much of the interplay between fracking, waste water disposal from fracking and earthquakes are just now being explored. There are too many unanswered questions to risk so much now. The EPA is expected to issue its much awaited report on fracking in December 2014. A moratorium until such time would have been prudent. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 12:12 pm: –Down here it feels a lot like environmental groups based in Chicago negotiated this bill without a lot of local input.– For crying out loud, is everyone in Southern Illinois a victim, regardless of where they are on the political spectrum? Day-in, day-out, it’s the same refrain. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 12:16 pm: ===For crying out loud, is everyone in Southern Illinois a victim=== Pretty much, yes. - Loop Lady - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 12:21 pm: Word: I can tell you have never been to Southern IL…it’s a different ball of wax… - dupage dan - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 12:26 pm: The environmental groups are located in Chicago because that’s where most folks are. It’s not because they don’t care about the environment in SoIL. To suggest that is to insult the very groups that have struggled for so long to protect the entire environment, not just the environment of Chicago. You can rest assured that they have as clear a view of the entire issue as anyone involved. That horizontal fracking can cause low level seismic activity there is no evidence that it can trigger serious earthquakes. - phocion - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 12:31 pm: Fracking is anathema to the more extreme elements not because of the extraction process itself, but because it promises to produce unanticipated quantities of fossil fuels. A few years ago, this same crowd was excitedly bleating that gas and oil reserves were rapidly declining. This scare tactic was designed to move the economy to more “sustainable” energy sources such as solar and wind. Technology for converting those sources into usable fuel sources has not quite caught up. So the mantra now is that fracking is unsafe. Bottom line is that the efficiency of fossil fuels is such that the market will continue to use them to power the world’s economy until alternate technologies makes their use unneeded. - Deep South - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 12:49 pm: ===For crying out loud, is everyone in Southern Illinois a victim=== Yeah, we’re all victims. Brilliant! Although I must say I believe all Cubs fans see themselves as victims. The North Siders were certainly victimized last night. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 12:56 pm: DS, Cub fans hardly see themselves as victims. You enter that particular Dante’s circle with your eyes wide open. - Stooges - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 1:04 pm: For the record, southern Illinois is officially anything south of I-64 and Mt. Vernon (in my opinion). - Dirty Red - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 1:05 pm: Moreover, isn’t Shawnee National Forest protected by federal regulations? It’s not like they will be fracking the Garden of the Gods despite what these comments suggest. I imagine there would be rigs in towns like Harrisburg that are right on the edge of the forest. - Dirty Red - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 1:08 pm: Deep South wouldn’t know a Cub fan if one walked up and introduced themselves. Hi. - Stooges - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 1:08 pm: If Fracking can trip the New Madrid fault, I guess we should now be worried that terrorists will drill a deep oil well, fill it full of explosives and detonate it. They could set off the New Madrid and San Andreas at the same time and bring us to our knees. Come on people. - soccermom - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 1:08 pm: I came to fracking reluctantly. But right now, it seems like the best way to stop using coal — which is harmful to both air and water — without sending tens of thousands of people into unemployment. Wind and solar are great, but we don’t have the grid we need to use them for baseload. Natural gas is plentiful and affordable, and will bring our GHG emissions down while we work to find truly sustainable sources. Anybody who thinks it’s better to use coal — or even worse, anybody who thinks it’s better to do fracking without regulation — is completely wrongheaded. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 1:09 pm: ===It would be great if rational thoughtful people with legitimate concerns were quoted on the blog on this issue=== lol Are you saying the anti-fracker leaders aren’t rational and thoughtful? - Loop Lady - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 1:24 pm: No, but many of the anti frackers you quote on the blog are , well-crackpots…if Jen Walling of IEC thinks that fracking should be banned, it’s a pretty good indication that fracking should be banned…put that as the lede iinstead of Dr Lora Whomever… - Rahm's Parking Meter - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 1:38 pm: Isn’t this the same Dr. Lora Chamberlain who was on the Sun Times Front Page arguing with Burt Odelson about how to throw Rahm off the ballot. That woman is a self described expert on everything and has no creditability. - red eft - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 1:46 pm: Soccermom, Much of the fracking likely to occur in southern Illinois is to extract oil, not natural gas. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 1:47 pm: ===Isn’t this the same Dr. Lora Chamberlain=== She pops up all over the place on Google searches. Bush impeachment, state bank for Illinois, just everywhere. But I decided that rather than drag all that up I’d just address what she said, which was silly enough. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 1:48 pm: red eft, they’re looking at mostly gas deposits. - Deep South - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 1:59 pm: Dirty Red… I know plenty of Cubs fans…no they’re not all the same. But casting the stereotype is pretty easy. Denial is not a river in Egypt. Now about last night…. - Nieva - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 2:02 pm: Rich, Will using the work fracking as in what the Cardinals did to the Cubs last night get me banned? - JoeVerdeal - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 2:10 pm: Petroleum and other liquids are the intended targets of drillers. Dry gas is not their desire and would likely be flared off. Areas that are theoretically more rich in dry gas have not seen as much recent attention from the land-men, which is proof of the intentions of drillers to seek liquids. The price of nat gas is so low that it discourages gas-field development, presently. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 2:15 pm: – Dry gas is not their desire and would likely be flared off.– I hate that. The Bakken in ND looks like Chicago from space at night because they’re burning off the gas. The rationale there is that they’re in the middle of nowhere and they don’t have the infrastructure for storage or transport. Can the same be said here? It’s just so stupid and wasteful. - Will - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 2:18 pm: ===For crying out loud, is everyone in Southern Illinois a victim=== “Pretty much, yes.” There was lots of talk around the capitol about how much tax revenue would be generated by fracking. Since the state is attempting to solve its budget problem at the expensive of southern Illinois’ water supply, they have good reason to feel victimized right now. I know it makes people feel safe to know that all their buddies in the statehouse agree with them, but if fracking does result in water contamination (like it already has elsewhere) we’ll look back on this as one of the worst environmental injustices in state history. - red eft - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 2:23 pm: Rich, What is your basis for saying it will be mostly for gas? I may be misinformed, but at public fora I attended, representatives of the oil industry confirmed that much of it would be for oil. This Chicago Tribune article also talks about the quantity of oil that may be produced in the New Albany Shale in southern Illinois. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-06-02/business/ct-biz-0602-fracking-passes-20130602_1_fracking-oil-and-gas-illinois-house, In weighing the environmental effects, one could argue that increasing natural gas production might be worth the cost (although I still think it would have been wiser to wait for the EPA study)since natural gas is a cleaner energy source than oil. However, if the environmental costs are for oil production, the balance may come out differently. - Easy Bein' Green - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 2:24 pm: Gov. Quinn was correct, under the circumstances, to sign this bill, and Dr. Chamberlin’s fury is misplaced. SB1715 garnered over 50 votes in the House and over 100 in the Senate. As much as one might dislike the “compromise,” it had relatively rare bipartisan support for a major policy piece, support of all legislative leadership, and general editorial support. A veto would have been overridden. Moreover, while Quinn didn’t craft the bill, his office had sufficient input that any kind of veto at this stage would have ticked off others who had signed on, such that it would not only have been ineffective, but counterproductive. There will be a de facto moratorium for some time, first while rulemaking moves forward, and then while permit applications are processed. Quinn’s executive branch has as many if not more personnel sensitive to environmental factors as any in Illinois’ history. All those who care about southern Illinois, the larger Illinois ecosystem, and the climate will be watching developments carefully. Political bandwidth would be much better spent in working on how best to manage the process, while continuing to educate Illinois residents and policymakers, and looking for future opportunities to constructively improve the law, than on venting and fomenting. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 2:25 pm: C’mon, Will. For decades, to please those in Southern Illinois, the state has thrown money at scrubbers to help keep high-sulphur coal going. That ain’t exactly environmentally or fiscally sound. And it’s your choice to live in the wide open spaces, but I don’t think you’re getting around on your bicycle. - Will - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 2:32 pm: http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-10-10/epa-says-test-of-wyoming-water-consistent-with-prior-results Wyoming Water Tests in Line With EPA Finding on Fracking Tests of drinking water near a natural-gas drilling site in Wyoming back up findings that established the first link by the federal government between hydraulic fracturing and tainted water, the Environmental Protection Agency said. The EPA yesterday issued its follow-up analyses of two test wells it drilled in Pavillion and of five residents’ water wells, saying the pollutants it found were “consistent” with the results last year used to establish that connection to hydraulic fracturing, or fracking. - JoeVerdeal - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 2:38 pm: Will: Southeastern Illinois has thousands of oil and gas well sites. The majority of these wells have been fracked and are at depths which are much closer to aquifer depths than the proposed new wells. We see absolutely no water problems resulting from this activity. - Downstate Illinois - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 3:07 pm: Red Eft, I’m not sure what you’re smoking, but not one county in Southern Illinois has voted to ban fracking. Five craven county boards, some of which only have three members, may have voted to support a one-year moratorium, but the voters themselves haven’t been asked their opinion at all. The worst thing fracking will do to tourism is use up all of our hotel rooms, raising rates through the roof. New hotels will have to be built and old homes will have to be upgraded for all the new workers. New duplexes will turn into tri-plexes and whole apartment compounds will have to rise. Additional workers will require new restaurants to open. How will the health department ever keep up? You’re right, it will be devastating. Poor old Walmart may have to raise hourly wages to compete for the new jobs. Wendy’s will have to pay more than minimum wage to attract high school students. Oh, the woe and misery! Will it ever end? Whither poor Southern Illinois. At least we can keep our guns. - Chicago Cynic - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 3:23 pm: Whether Rich and Soccermom are right that the IL fracking would be for gas or for oil, my concern is that it was already happening without regulation. Will is correct that the EPA has established links to water contamination, but those situations are precisely the point folks like ELPC made in arguing for strong regulation. Personally, I’m much more comfortable knowing that we’ve got the strongest regulatory regime in the country than if we had unchecked and uncontrolled fracking. Why absolutists like Will and Lora Chamberlain can’t understand this point is simply beyond me. Governing is about choices and compromise and I’ve never believed we should let the perfect be the enemy of the good (or really good in this case). - Carl Nyberg - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 3:37 pm: Jen Walling spoke at Northside Democracy For America a week ago. She argued the bill was a significant improvement on the status quo. Dr. Lora often attends NDFA meetings, but declined to attend the one Walling spoke at b/c she was at a demonstration. Dr. Lora did not send anyone to ask Qs of Walling. The world needs people on the outside agitating and it needs people on the inside negotiating. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 3:39 pm: ===The world needs people on the outside agitating and it needs people on the inside negotiating.=== Agreed. Fully. But the agitators need to remain in the real world. - railrat - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 4:03 pm: I guess sometimes when issues like this one become so emotional I just look back at how young this country is, that many of our parents or grandparents have seen so much in their lifespan….my father at 14 worked Southern Coal ienlisted at 17 for WWII the rest of story doesn’t matter, I just wonder if adaptation involves guts and glory or cowardice and insecurity? hey ever drink water below a Beaver Damn? anybody? - Just The Way It Is One - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 4:46 pm: Sorry to all those anti-frackers, but sometimes life in Politics demands a decent Balance. Pat Quinn entered his job as Governor months about a year into the, Bar-None, WORST Recession in U.S. History next to the Depression some Americans still actually remember. He said we need to create Jobs in Illinois and soon thereafter signed into Law the largest Capital Development Jobs Program in our State’s History…now take a look at those Unemployment Statistics from Southern Illinois (with 7 of those Counties suffering from Rates between 8% and nearly 10%!!–sorry, but Mr. Quinn is the Governor of ALL of Illinois, and that includes down South! Also, although the Governor benefits from the solid support of Voters who live there, again, sorry, but the whole World doesn’t stop at the borders of Cook County–and I live there! Those folks need good JOBS and deserve the opportunities to find them every bit as much as the residents of Chicagoland– and with a Coal resource ALL of us here in Illinois are blessed to have in abundance!! Fracking done with STRICT Regulations, which the new Law the Governor has PRUdently approved INSISTS upon, will reap many more benefits for Illinois Residents economically and societally more widely still, through the wealth of crucial hydrocarbons to be bountily received through this process when it’s done responsibly, as a primary fuel source for America and beyond…! But mostly, the benefits will mean self-respect and a decent Paycheck to many of our fellow heretofore UNemployed, fellow Illinoisans and their Families, and despite a degree of concern, that’s just too much of the Ace in the Hole to win the Hand for Illinois in this particular Public Policy Game…! - dazed & confused - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 5:09 pm: It’s a good bill. Tell me the last time that union, business, agriculture, environmentalists, Quinn and Lisa Madigan all agreed on a bill. Heck, we should let this working group finalize the pension deal and then send them to the Middle East. - Just The Way It Is One - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 5:10 pm: –@dazed & confused– Amen!!! - Carl Nyberg - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 6:17 pm: ==But the agitators need to remain in the real world.== This limitation is not applied to Right Wing agitators who routinely spew stuff that isn’t correct. The GOP barely ever allows reality to limit their rhetoric. - Will - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 6:28 pm: - but those situations are precisely the point folks like ELPC made in arguing for strong regulation. Personally, I’m much more comfortable knowing that we’ve got the strongest regulatory regime in the country than if we had unchecked and uncontrolled fracking. “Why absolutists like Will and Lora Chamberlain can’t understand this point is simply beyond me. - What I understand is that a single fracking well has been used as a scare tactic for over two years, even though it was recently repackaged as a “breaking” story. Many environmentalists who know better were disappointed to hear such a transparently bogus pressure tactic repeated by green groups. Wide scale fracking was not happening in Illinois and was in no danger of suddenly starting without regulation in place. This bill opens Illinois to large scale fracking for the first time. - Chicago Cynic - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 6:42 pm: “Wide scale fracking was not happening in Illinois and was in no danger of suddenly starting without regulation in place.” So says WIll so it must be true. Ignore the reports of leasing activity in counties and all other evidence. It’s all what Will says that must be true. - Will - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 6:43 pm: Yes, fracking may give southern Illinois a few boom years, just as coal once did long ago. We can all see how rich the extraction-based economy has made southern Illinois. After the boom, the people who got the better paying jobs will go back to their home state or on to the next fracking site. When they go they’ll leave behind a place less people want to live, buy land, or open a business because no one is aching to live somewhere that used to be beautiful and used to have safe drinking water. Just like everyone wants to live next to a strip mine, right? A few years of plenty for a potential generation of famine is a risky bet. Rich, have you posted anything from Sandra Steingraber? Nice straw-man here. - Will - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 6:46 pm: “So says the people who want a regulatory bill so it must be true. Ignore the reports of there being no fracking beyond a single propaganda well. It’s all what industry and Quinn staff pushing for a bill says that must be true.” See how that works both ways? - Will - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 6:48 pm: And yes, as you point out, companies were leasing mineral rights and WAITING to see what laws were passed. - Bored Chairman - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 8:07 pm: Will, What other source of wealth should residents of southern Illinois look to? Or should joblessness and poverty persist because of unfounded accusations? Keep it safe. Keep it moving. - JoeVerdeal - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 8:28 pm: Will: Coal mining is still going on in the part of Illinois that has potential for oil/gas development. It is still a major industry in Southeastern Illinois and has been a major force since the late 1800’s. The same area of the country had a lot of drilling in the 1940’s through the 1960’s. Many hundreds of wells were drilled and hydrofractured. Hydrofrac is not a new concept in that part of Illinois. As far as your comment (”Just like everyone wants to live next to a strip mine, right?”) is concerned, I would challenge you to try to find a final cut strip pit down here….and attempt to afford it. They are precious and greatly prized for their recreational and aesthetic value. - red eft - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 8:59 pm: Technical question–why does a post I made at 7:26 show up on my ipad but not when I look at this blog online? - Chicago Cynic - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 10:21 pm: ““So says the people who want a regulatory bill so it must be true. Ignore the reports of there being no fracking beyond a single propaganda well. It’s all what industry and Quinn staff pushing for a bill says that must be true.” See how that works both ways?” Yea Will I do. Since the organizations you cite have infinitely more credibility than you do (are you still on Sierra’s payroll BTW?). - mokenavince - Tuesday, Jun 18, 13 @ 10:47 pm: Illinois has always needed work from the fossil fuel companies. My grandfather used to work the coal mines in Toluca and Riverton. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.