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Question of the day

Tuesday, Jul 9, 2013

* Amanda Vinicky


At least one of those ideas, I’m told, is to call out the National Guard. You may recall that Rod Blagojevich offered to do that several years ago.

* The Question: Should Gov. Pat Quinn call out the National Guard to patrol the most violent Chicago neighborhoods? Take the poll and then explain your answer in comments, please.


survey tools

- Posted by Rich Miller        


146 Comments
  1. - Mmmmmmm - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 12:08 pm:

    Of course he should..they could patrol the gang infested areas with a true show of force. At least that might protect some of the innocent children..BUT>>>>>we know he will not do it..because that would take leadership and PQ has never shown leadership. Also, he doesnt have the guts to publicly take on Rahm


  2. - Libertyville's finest - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 12:10 pm:

    These killings are on a magnitude that would merit military action. If I lived in Chicago, I would demand my leaders provide my community with the same level of protection members of NATO got in 2012. Illinois responded to that event like Indiana was going to invade.


  3. - Lil Squeezy - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 12:10 pm:

    I voted yes, but I am not sure about my vote. I thought this was a crazy idea a few years ago, but regardless of what McCarthy says things are not working. I think any involvement should be limited to instances such as kids walking to and from school. I don’t know how to make things better but I do know that pensions isnt the number 1 issue facing this state.


  4. - 47th Ward - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 12:12 pm:

    No, because it would be an open-ended deployment with no exit strategy and no clear objectives.

    I’m all for taking the streets back from the thugs who are shooting each other. We should end the war on drugs and take away the biggest source of gang revenue. People also need to step up and demand more from ourselves and our children and our neighbors. Self-respecting communities do not tolerate wanton violence. We all have a responsibility.

    Deploying the National Guard is a costly gimmick and won’t be anything more than a temporary solution to an enduring problem rooted in a culture of violence and black market criminality.


  5. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 12:16 pm:

    No. The national guard could not be a coordinated or long-term solution. Plus, the state doesn’t have the dough.

    However, a much stronger, federally coordinated response might be in order, a la South Florida in the 80s. They have the resources to put the hurt on business.

    Put more prosecutors, DEA, IRS, FBI and ATF on it, and you might have something going.

    Having said that, it’s important to remember that Chicago’s violent crime rate is about middle of the pack for big cities, and is much lower than it was in the 70s, 80s and 90s (the same is true for most of the country).

    Chicago’s bad national reputation is largely based on the greater success they’re enjoying fighting violent crime in New York and LA.


  6. - Dee Lay - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 12:17 pm:

    If only there was a strike force of highly trained officers, maybe they were highly mobile?

    Nah, the chiefs don’t need anything like that to help saturate and calm the seas in a certain area. Disbanding the city-wide units (like the Mobile Strike Force and others) shows mismanagement at its finest going back to Jody Weis.

    If McCarthy isn’t gone by the end of the month, I’ll be shocked.


  7. - heet101 - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 12:18 pm:

    I vote no. Unless the next headline you want to read is either “Gang opens fire on National Guard troops,” or “White national guard troops shoot and kill unarmed African American (Teen, man, girl, student, etc.)


  8. - MrJM - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 12:18 pm:

    Sure.

    It’s obvious that the solution to Chicago’s problem of gun violence is more men with guns.

    – MrJM


  9. - CircularFiringSquad - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 12:20 pm:

    we know the national guard…good people but most units not equipped to handle the assignment…notice how PQ gets more Blagoofian every day


  10. - Mike Weisman - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 12:25 pm:

    70? Yesterday? Really?

    I thought it was about 70 for the whole long 4 day weekend.


  11. - MrGrassroots - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 12:29 pm:

    There is no other answer, frankly. It worked in Gary, Indiana a number of years ago. I don’t like it because of unidentified, unintended consequences. We just don’t know.

    However, they have to go in with a mission and an end game. Just like any other military mission.

    Of course, that also means that Mayor Rahm Emanuel has failed to secure the safety of Chicago citizens. By not hiring 2000-3000 additional police officers when he first was elected He instead pretended to drag police off the “desk” and reassign them. Sounds like a job for the IGO, if he gets the job after re-applying.

    By the way, he has!


  12. - Kevin Highland - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 12:32 pm:

    I voted no. This isn’t a place for military action, this is a place for more prosecutions for gang activities, weapons violations & drug violations.


  13. - MrGrassroots - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 12:36 pm:

    Well Kevin, more prosecutions for gang activities, etc. means you need the manpower to make the arrests to make the prosecutions. I don’t like the idea of a military state one bit either, but McCarthy’s strategy isn’t working, no matter what he says. As side note, I don’t lay any blame on McCarthy at all. He doesn’t have the troops. Period. There just isn’t enough police on the streets to make it happen. They are overwhelmed by the gangs.


  14. - WPZ - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 12:37 pm:

    Why not use the National Guard?
    May 4th, 1970, Kent State University, Kent, Ohio.


  15. - Dark Side of the Moon - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 12:39 pm:

    I voted yes.

    At the time, some argued that if the National Guard was called in - which would have reflected badly on the Mayor of Chicago.

    I could understand their argument that a ‘world class city’ should not have these types of headlines as not to scare away visitors, businessmen, etc. But we (residents of Chicago) are at our wits end. It’s time to put politics aside and do something to curb the violence in our streets.


  16. - kerfuffle - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 12:40 pm:

    I don’t think they will be availavle for that duty as they will be needed for Quinn’s retaliation against the GA for not passing pension reforms by the end of the day today.


  17. - Chavez-respecting Obamist - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 12:41 pm:

    I voted no because if Monique Davis likes it, it has to be the wrong answer.


  18. - Kathryn - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 12:43 pm:

    Chicago police cant handle it so the guard should be called in. I feel sorry for the people living in those areas. those gang members should be cleaned out and sent to a prison in Mexico


  19. - Mason born - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 12:45 pm:

    I voted No.

    While this kind of mission can be tasked to Natl. Guard. I wonder at the rules of Engagement for the Guard. If they are armed (as they would have to be) when are they allowed to fire? What happens when a Guardsman puts a round in a vehicle it passes through (mil rounds are full metal Jackets and designed to over penetrate) and strikes a child??


  20. - Mason born - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 12:46 pm:

    On a second Note can Quinn send the State Police officers from outside of Chicago up there to assist? Seems to me County Cops can handle Speeding tickets on 55 for a few months.


  21. - DanL60 - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 12:47 pm:

    Mixed feelings but voted yes. The Guard can be a visible deterrent while the CPD ramps up efforts to bring gun shootings under control.

    The potential fly in the ointment is the CPD actually has to ramp up efforts to bring gun shootings under control.


  22. - MrGrassroots - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 12:51 pm:

    This debate has no correct answers. Not doing anything just extends the violence. Bringing in the Guard brings a siege mentality to the city, not good either. Once it is cleaned up by the Guard, then what? That is the difficult part. The question of “Then what?” should have been answered years ago, instead these communities have been ignored and downtown has been the Chicago priority. But . . . if you ignore downtown, you become Detroit. Again, no good answers except this gun violence has to stop!


  23. - Last Bull Moose - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 12:51 pm:

    Absolutely not!
    Policing is not war.
    Revise criminal code to take the profit out of illegal behavior, including sale of dangerous drugs. Use economics and policing together to change behavior.


  24. - titan - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 12:51 pm:

    An effective military occupation?
    With full house to house searches and all?

    How long before Sharpton and Jackson and the ACLU arrive to decry the racism and constitutional rights violations?


  25. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 12:52 pm:

    Apart from being an expensive publicity stunt that may or may not be effective for a brief period of time, what will it really accomplish?
    Quinn is unlikely to do it any way. His strongest support is in some of the communities most affected.

    Illinois cannot afford to deploy the National Guard for too long. Will the Guards have arrest powers? Doubtful.

    I would be all in favor of more arrests and trials and convictions, but Illinois can barely afford to operate its prisons now. Criminals are going free or being placed on supervision or probation, in some instances, because the judges know that the state cannot afford to house and feed all of those arrested and convicted.


  26. - Wensicia - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 12:53 pm:

    No, this is a Chicago problem and as long as the CPD continue to downplay these shootings, it’s on them. Recognize and aggressively deal with the problem, Mayor Emanuel, before the National Guard has to step forward.


  27. - wishbone - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 12:56 pm:

    Imagine if a killer was murdering children in a north shore suburb, and the members of the community refused to cooperate with the police to stop the violence. Well it happens on the west side every day. Our Governor would rather point the finger at potential concealed weapon carriers who have nothing to do with the problem because it is politically incorrect to state the obvious cause. The code of silence in the affected communities.


  28. - Hon. John Fritchey - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 12:56 pm:

    As the person who called for this three years ago, and having spoken with the National Guard about it at the time, I can tell you that they are specifically trained to patrol in urban areas. At a time when CPD is undermanned by up to 2000 officers on any given day, having additional eyes and ears on the ground can be a valuable asset in this situation.

    We’re not talking about tanks in the street, we’re talking about a visible presence and assistance to CPD.

    What’s most interesting about this idea is that when Rep. Ford and I called for it back then, Rep. Davis said it was a terrible idea.

    What’s also interesting is that when we proposed it in 2010, the strongest supporters of the idea were the ones in the most affected areas. They welcomed all the help they could get.


  29. - Shemp - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 12:58 pm:

    Not the National Guard’s job, simple enough. Need more “community leaders” doing more doing and doing less talking.


  30. - Steve - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 1:01 pm:

    No. A military state isn’t a problem for “father free” zones.


  31. - Shemp - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 1:04 pm:

    Maybe we need more prisons to lock some of these people up for longer terms….


  32. - downstater - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 1:04 pm:

    The libs really need to make up their minds. Either they want good guys with guns or they don’t.

    I voted no. Taxpayers dollars from the whole state being used to take care of a municipal problem. Maybe if the problem were statewide I would agree but its not.

    Chicago needs to put on its big boy pants and take care of its own problems.


  33. - ILPundit - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 1:05 pm:

    Not only would I call out the National Guard, but I authorize them to set up checkpoints and confiscate any firearm carried by, or in the car of, any individual without a valid FOID card.

    This legality of this is questionable. However, I would let the NRA sue and let them fight it in the courts. City under siege vs NRA — I’d love to be able to sell that story.


  34. - Robert the Bruce - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 1:09 pm:

    Voted no because I think the state should need at least one of the Chicago police chief or the mayor to ask for it. And the violence isn’t at historically high levels. Quinn should stay silent, but if the legislature were to pass a resolution asking him to send in the guard, then he’d certainly have the right to ask for a meeting to discuss it with Rahm/McCarthy/whoever is in charge of the national guard.


  35. - Mason born - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 1:12 pm:

    John

    As someone trained in Patrolling in an urban environment believe me you do not want the Standard Military patrol in an urban environment. for these reasons;
    a. Military training involves no training for Constitutional Rights. In war zones no 4th or 5th amendments.
    b. While the Military doesn’t try to create collateral damage it isn’t the same concern as Police.
    c. Every Guardsman issued his standard weapon (m16) will have an Automatic weapon firing a 5.56 millimeter Full metal Jacket round capable of penetrating a cinder block wall at 200 yrds+. All of this inside a tightly urban area is a very bad combo.

    If this is done Guardsmen should be assigned to ride with individual CPD officers as their partners. Look into the King Riots in LA i believe something similar was done. In theory the Police can help the guardsman with appropriate ROE’s and procedures.


  36. - CarrollCounty - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 1:13 pm:

    Yes, but need comprehensive strategy which includes legalization of the drug trade (thank you to previous commenter), which is the root cause of this problem. Problem does not exist in a vacuum.


  37. - Just Me - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 1:13 pm:

    If you read Rod’s book (which I unfortunately had too for purposes of seeing what he said about me in it), you’ll know that he proposed giving them special uniforms and trucks, and he wanted to ride around with them giving them orders on what to do. It was insane.


  38. - Underwhelmed - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 1:15 pm:

    Instead of using the National Guard, maybe the police should consider just using military tactics. Springfield, MA has very successfully employed counter-insurgency tactics from Iraq and Afghanistan to reduce crimes in their most violent neighborhoods.

    If Chicago is serious about reducing violence, then they need to address the reasons that these communities are failing. Both citizens and police need to be engaged with each other in order to build positive interactions and safe neighborhoods.


  39. - OneMan - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 1:19 pm:

    Didn’t Rod’s idea include special uniforms? You got to have the special uniforms…


  40. - CarrollCounty - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 1:21 pm:

    Didn’t Rod’s idea include special uniforms? You got to have the special uniforms…

    “We don’t need no stinking badges!”


  41. - OneMan - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 1:22 pm:

    John,

    I know this is going to sound silly, but what would they do besides be there. I guess I can see some value in having two guys in fatigues with a large gun on every other corner. But are they going to arrest people?


  42. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 1:23 pm:

    Questions? What is the per capita distribution of police officers in Chicago compared to New York?
    What percentage walk a beat, as opposed to riding in patrol cars, compared to New York?
    How many police officer positions have been cut from the budget in Chicago, or go unfilled?
    Is it possible that the last two mayors have made budget decisions which have endangered city residents and visitors?


  43. - Mason born - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 1:24 pm:

    Just Me

    I can see it now and as playing Patton Rod Blagojevich.


  44. - RonOglesby - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 1:26 pm:

    No soldiers are not cops. not trained as cops, not equipped for policing.

    For sure when the Gov and Nat Guard commanders would probably put them out in uniform with unloaded weapons…


  45. - Timmeh - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 1:26 pm:

    I voted no, but I’ve been reading comments and thinking a bit. I’m afraid that these neighborhoods might already be skeptical of police, I wonder what a National Guard presence might mean to them. Would they just end up being vilified by residents? If they leave, will violence just return to where it was at? If the National Guard is called, then there needs to be something else too. A way to help develop those communities while they’re safe.
    My other thought is that if the National Guard was called, that’s a lot of attention to Chicago. Send National Guardsmen from downstate too. Let them see how Chicago is and how important this problem is to solve. You might generate more interest to fix this issue at the state level.


  46. - Ahoy! - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 1:28 pm:

    I voted yes but don’t think I’m qualified to answer that. What does the National Guard, Chicago Police and Neighborhood leaders think? Obviously something has to be done and I’m not sure if we’re going to use the National Guard if we should just limit it to Chicago, maybe we need to do an analysis of our worst neighborhoods and area’s throughout the State. If you chase them out of Chicago, gangs have networks through out the State and nation.


  47. - Chicagoan - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 1:28 pm:

    That would be a temporary and probably dangerous fix to a systemic problem. The violence is brought on by massive unemployment, poverty, public disinvestment, lack of resources, and financed by the drug market b/c of the drug war. More police, more money into local schools, divert large infrastructure projects away from Gold Coast, Downtown, Northside, and to the west and south side, and you will see a noticeable difference in a year or two. It is an economic issue first and foremost.


  48. - Responsa - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 1:29 pm:

    No. The crime in certain districts is horrifying and innocent children are dying. The gangbangers run certain neighborhoods and everybody (including cops and politicians IMO) are afraid of them. But there should be no assumed expectation that the CPD could or would work in harmony or in concert with a national guard deployment and their military leadership. Nor should there be any assumed expectation that a national guard deployment would be equipped to deal with both the gangbangers and the sensitivities of the community. Just because Monique wants it does not mean that the community in realty would accept being “occupied” by strangers. This is a police and political matter. It must be solved there.

    I’d love to hear an honest conversation from the cops on the street as to what they think would work and what needs to be done now. Supposedly, the former chief was “the problem” because street cops did’t “like” him or his “style”. Well, from what I can tell things are much much worse under Supt. McCarthy than under Jody Weis. McCarthy’s press conferences, explanations, and constant assurances are cringe worthy.

    It’d also be lovely if a few strong young black and latino political leaders, who could actually be respected for their integrity, intelligence and grit, would rise to the fore to help lead and inspire the demoralized decent citizens in the most troubled areas.


  49. - GC - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 1:30 pm:

    As a 30-year military vet, I voted no. The police and sheriff’s office are well equipped to handle the current situation; it is the political leaders who lack the guts to confront the problem.

    Most people do not realize, but your average police officer can actually out-gun your average 21st century Army or Marine grunt. This is a result of police departments acquiring surplus military equipment, such as M16A1s, etc.

    Your average cop has his high-capacity sidearm and a fully-automatic M16A1 (usually in the car), which can empty a 30-round magazine with a single trigger pull.

    In contrast, your average soldier/marine carries with him either an M16A2 or an M4 Carbine, which can only fire a 3-round burst and has a shorter effective range, and no sidearm. True, in a war zone he may be able to call on a mortar, artillery or aviation ordinance if not restricted, which would certainly be the case stateside.

    Everyone is so enraptured by the military nowadays the whole issue of the militarization of domestic police forces has escaped scrutiny. As noted above, they outgun the average soldier/marine.

    The difference is that military leadership is not afraid to use the force available to them.


  50. - Joe M - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 1:31 pm:

    After multiple shootings in New Orleans in June of 2007, Louisiana deployed National Guard Units to the downtown and French Quarter areas, just prior to a large convention I attended. That was mainly to give convention goers and visitors to Bourbon Street a feeling of security for the weekend. They were positioned on maybe 5 or 6 street corners downtown, and had a few Hummers parked on grassy areas of Canal Street.

    I don’t believe the National Guard is the appropriate response for the ongoing big city violence in Chicago or any city.

    Besides, many of the Illinois Guard Units have been too busy in Iraq and Afghanistan to always be available in Illinois.


  51. - Rufus - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 1:32 pm:

    Define the objectives, define the end game, I am pretty sure by doing so, there would be a better alternative.


  52. - Amalia - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 1:32 pm:

    it’s been written about here before, but the Chicago magazine piece on the gangs and politics is worth reading. and those pols should stop feeding the beast,


  53. - Carl Nyberg - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 1:34 pm:

    Using the National Guard to patrol Chicago is a bad idea.

    The number of homicides is low compared to 20, 30, 40 and 50 years ago. We–minus the people who were killed–got through those periods.

    Using troops that have been patrolling in Iraq and Afghanistan is insane/foolish/stupid on a level… we do not want to live in communities where National Guard troops are either shooting citizens or being shot at by citizens.

    If the crime problem is a crisis, there are other things that should be done. For example, the City of Chicago might consider professionalizing its police force and demanding that they do their jobs and follow the law.

    When the city treats the members of the police department like a police force instead of a rogue special interest group… then I will know that Chicago is serious about law enforcement.


  54. - Cook County Commoner - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 1:35 pm:

    Or Chicago could start filling its needed police ranks with officers at the same pay but without pensions and early retirement. Train them and swear them in. Preference for military veterans. The line of applicants would stretch to Kankakee. Oh, but the unions won’t allow that. Too bad. How many were shot in the time it took to type this?


  55. - Hon. John Fritchey - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 1:37 pm:

    There’s a ton I’d like to share on this but it’s just too long to type. To address one or two points raised, yes it is fully constitutional, yes they could be given arrest powers, yes they could be appropriately armed with sidearms.

    To give just one theoretical example, you could have guardsmen patrolling parks at night. The presence alone would be a deterrent. If you think that would look bad, I’d submit that it looks better than a dead child on the playground. And if you think that the whole idea of bringing in the guard sounds ridiculous, I’m pretty certain that the guard was called in for support after Bulls championships.

    Obviously, there are a number of long-term needs to solve our violence problem - job training, after-school programs, parenting skill classes, community responsibility, etc. But something needs to be done in the short run.

    If the National Guard isn’t the short-term answer, I’m very open to hear what is. But what isn’t is what Mayor Daley and Jody Weis said publicly at the time, “We’ve got it under control”. We don’t.


  56. - Mokenavince - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 1:38 pm:

    I voted yes for a short term I think they would help. We have a better chance of helping Englewood than Iraq. We should help fellow Americans.


  57. - William j Kelly - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 1:39 pm:

    No! It would be totally unconscionable to but the national Gaurd in that kind of danger!;)


  58. - Rollo Tomasi - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 1:40 pm:

    NYC has about 7000 police assigned just to the port authority (Buses, trains, airports, waterways). Chgo has less than 400. Chicago is about 1720 police officers down from 2008 for patrolling the city. That may have an affect?


  59. - Carl Nyberg - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 1:41 pm:

    ==I can tell you that they are specifically trained to patrol in urban areas.== Hon. John Fritchey

    Have you heard the line, “What we have here is failure to communicate”?

    What the National Guard means by patrolling urban areas is not what professional law enforcement means when they say they are patrolling urban areas.

    I really like Commissioner Fritchey and Rep. Ford, but I thought this was a bad idea back then and its still a bad idea.

    Professionalize law enforcement in Chicago. Cops who aren’t onboard with professional police methods should be fired and replaced. The practice of keeping politically connected crooks on payroll as cops needs to be reformed.

    Fix the Chicago PD and quit stashing the loser nephews of precinct captains there.


  60. - RonOglesby - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 1:41 pm:

    @cook County

    Preference for military veterans

    HAHAHAHAHA… Actually there was just a lawsuit filed about how military vets were actually being pushed down or off the list ON PURPOSE for the CPD.
    Then add to that that it is much easier to become a Chicago cop if you “know someone” wink wink. I looked at it when I first got out and was a young 20-something vet. They were a: jerks about the process, and B: I actually watched a guy who failed the run talk to the scorer who nodded, smiled and marked down a lesser time…

    Not exactly recruiting the finest.


  61. - Ggal - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 1:45 pm:

    I voted no. Throwing uniforms at the problem will not correct the generations of bad parenting.


  62. - William j Kelly - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 1:50 pm:

    Btw McCarthy announce a new strategy yesterday that should solve the crime problem ASAP , if you see a crime you should tweet him! But the trick is to do it fast before they run off with your phone!;)


  63. - dupage dan - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 1:53 pm:

    Is Rep Davis responding to the crisis or to the media reportage? The rate of murder in Chicago is lower this year. However, the Tribune headlines are several points larger than usual. They are not fans of Emanuel and I think they are hammering him. Davis saying “70 shot in one day” is just not the truth. Very little of what she says impresses me - ready, shout, think.


  64. - Foxfire - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 1:55 pm:

    No, because this is a local issue and the City of Chicago has the resources required to address it. Use of state resources of a para-military nature would be inappropriate.


  65. - Non-qual Expert - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 1:58 pm:

    If they deployed the National Guard for select times when violence is likely to occur (warm holiday weekends), it could defuse many of these escalated periods of violence. What many readers do not understand is that there are new turf battles taking place in the Gresham and Englewood neighborhoods, which are being fought by teenagers. Unlike in the past, where turf in the gang world meant a place to sell dope, turf now means a place where you can walk safely as the violence has become out of control. This new level of violence requires new solutions to combat it. This might be a smart solution that sends a message to the community that the state is going to work to make the streets of these neighborhoods safe, for once.


  66. - Nickypiii - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 2:00 pm:

    Your question is a joke and right out of Starz network cable show about the Mayor of Chicago. However, today’s online Tribune article about Mr. King’s violent,repeat crimes are a perfect example of what the problem really is. Our court system is a sham in Cook County! Violent offenders get a slap on the wrist or small sentences that can get parole after serving 50% of their sentence. Violent offenders start with small acts and have little or no consequences for their actions from the court. This encourages more unsavory behavior because of no repercussions from their actions until we get a harden, violent criminal like King.


  67. - What? - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 2:01 pm:

    U.S. troops patroling an American city? Sounds crazy. What do you do when the first IED goes off?


  68. - Commonsense in Illinois - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 2:03 pm:

    I voted no. The Mayor will have to ask for ING Military Police from the Governor first. Frankly I don’t see Mayor Emanuel ever making that ask… Could Quinn do it on his own…why not? It’s great political theater and Pat Quinn never backed away from drama.


  69. - RonOglesby - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 2:06 pm:

    @NonEqual

    If they deployed the National Guard for select times when violence is likely to occur (warm holiday weekends), it could defuse many of these escalated periods of violence.

    The thing about the Guard is that it is not an Active military unit sitting around and training waiting for orders. These are part-time soldiers (some with active duty time some not) that for all but 1 weekend a month are mechanics, carpenters, doctors, phone techs, computer geeks, etc…

    You cant just say “Hey July 4th is coming up and uh.. its July 2nd and its Skilling says its gunna be hot, send down the Guard for 4 days…

    You have to stage, setup housing, setup food and supply points, checkin and out weapons and ammo, create deployment plans, etc. So its many many days in advance.

    now do this 2 or three times when these regular guys have a holiday weekend yanked from them and guess what? you will have very little guard available or only the guys that want to act like Jags in the ghetto.

    Oh… And guess what an E5 (Sgt) gets what… 75 bucks for a 2 day “drill”. so get gets a holiday weekend yanked, spent in body armor in Englewood for 4 days for 150 bucks… Think you could do that more than once or twice?


  70. - the unknown poster - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 2:10 pm:

    How about we send up those packs of newly minted vigilante CC permit holders.


  71. - Downstater - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 2:17 pm:

    No, why should the rest of the state pay for Chicago’s mess and failures?


  72. - Responsa - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 2:19 pm:

    On a thread that has been impressive and nearly uniform for the depth and seriousness of the comments, it’s too bad that the unknown poster came along to break that string.


  73. - Skirmisher - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 2:20 pm:

    Absolutely “No”. The National Guard is not an arm of local law enforcement, and they are not trained to take on that role. If the objective is to send in a strike force to decimate or exterminate the gangs without regard for collateral damage, then by all means use the Guard. Otherwise, use local law enforcement backed up by the local political will to go vigorously go after both the gang membership and the social issues that make gang members generation after miserable generation. From what I see, Chicago’s leaders just endlessly wring their hands about both the budgetary and racial political issues associated with ending the street gangs, and so this unchecked violence just goes on, and on, and on, and on. And that isn’t going to change any time in the foreseeable future. As others have pointed out, this violence is highly localized and is not especially seen as a huge problem even to most Chicagoites, much less the rest of us in Illinois.


  74. - Wumpus - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 2:21 pm:

    No, bad precendent. Although, police are already trained by the military and use their weapons/tactics.

    Quinn could start by adopting all of the fatherless gangbangers and sending them to school, encouraging them to learn. Second, he can take a note from CA and sterilize people unknowingly. THird, stop having people arrested for minor drug offenses. You arrest gang leaders, younger members are forced to fill the void and these youngins have no rules.


  75. - Distant Viewer - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 2:22 pm:

    If there was a clear plan (not so much a goal) to target leaders, break up networks, and confiscate inventory then I would be for it. It would have to be something that hit at the heart of the criminal system because it couldn’t last long.


  76. - Dan Johnson - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 2:22 pm:

    Absolutely.

    We have the National Guard at our disposal.

    We also have an Illinois State Police force.

    The only downside has been the perceived slight to the Mayor of Chicago (which is not something the Mayor or the Administration has said — just a perceived slight).

    What else are the ISP and the National Guard doing that is more important than potentially bringing some peace to the killing fields?


  77. - Tom Gooch - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 2:23 pm:

    first it costs alot of money to use the guard. Why should the rest of the State have to pay for another of Chicago’s messes? Then if we had the guard what will be the rules of engagement in use to determine when the guard can start shooting people? Who will control them, the governor who is somewhat unstable or our legislature who seemingly can’t agree on anything? Finally I’m tired of hearing about Chicago and it’s residents, just so long as they continue shooting each other I don’t want to see my dollars used to help them. Better to build a wall around the place


  78. - ChrisB - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 2:26 pm:

    Nuke it from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure…


  79. - chicagocon - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 2:28 pm:

    Interesting timing - debating the concealed carry law juxtaposed with the crime wave in Chicago that has some calling for unusual actions like calling in the National Guard. This suggests that the CPD is not able to fully protect the people (I am a fan of the CPD). If the situation in Chicago has reached a point where the citizenry cannot fully rely on the police to defend them, it seems almost funny to also tell said citizenry that they are not allowed to have a weapon to protect themselves.

    To all the gun control types I make this offer - once you show us (NOT promise us) that the bad guys are under control and disarmed, we the people will talk about disarming ourselves.


  80. - 1776 - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 2:29 pm:

    No - this is not the job or purview of the National Guard.

    Unfortunately, this is a systemic problem and not solved by adding a few more officers. It goes back to education and creating a climate where these individuals can get jobs.

    When they broke up the gangs in the late 80s, they lost the ability to bring in the top 8-10 gang leaders who could enforce a truce. Now they deal with 400-500 smaller gangs who are constantly fighting for turf.


  81. - Sunshine - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 2:37 pm:

    Leave it to Chicago to handle Chicago’s problem. Bringing in the National Guard would be incredibly useless!

    Pass and enforce tough laws and issue long, harsh sentences for any drug or gun crime.

    With years and years of network building between the gangs and law enforcement, this might be an impossible task. Who can you trust….the dealer, the cop, the judge?

    What is Fitzgerald doing these days?


  82. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 2:39 pm:

    Yes, but in a coordinated sweep with the Chicago police department and State Police. Arrest those carrying guns and target gang members. This is a war zone and innonet children must be protected.


  83. - Zygmuntovich - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 2:42 pm:

    And what would the National Guard do? Patrol the corners and the alleys Execute search warrants? Question witnesses? Pick up garbage?

    What authority would the National guard have?


  84. - Detail Troopers - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 2:43 pm:

    The ILLINOIS STATE POLICE main concern is traffic (speeding, seat belt and DUI enforcement). Not trying to be sarcastic, but making $100,000 or more a year for issuing traffic tickets, In the past the Illinois state police troopers were detailed to work in certain areas of urgent need for several months. I see a very urgent need in Chicago! Detail each trooper, no exception for four months on a rotation basis. They should be assigned to work the high crime areas and support the Chicago police. It is an emergency situation in Chicago. The elected leaders complain and do nothing. Lets demand one third of the Illinois state police be detailed to patrol the problem areas. Lets ask our self what is most important, a person not wearing a seat belt or hundreds of people being shot and killed. The Governor has the power to make this happen. We can blame the problem on everything. We can help stop the shooting until we can solve the problem. Governor stop the press conferences and take action, send in the troops. The ball is in your court Pat!


  85. - walkinfool - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 2:55 pm:

    No, regular troops are not trained or equipped for law enforcement. Urban warfare is not policing by American standards.

    Word has it right: a coordinated increase in help from the Feds, along with assignment of any NG/Reserve MP units would help.


  86. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 2:57 pm:

    Ok, voted “No”.

    What would be the benchmark to recall them? 100 murders a year? 150? What areas “must” have them, what areas “may” get them, what is the criteria?

    Instead of episodes of “Cops”, Chicago gets a new show, “Guard” or “Drill Weekend, Chicago”?

    Does the General of the IL National Guard have even listen to Rahm or Chicago’s Police Superintendent?

    Too many moving parts, not enough clarity on the goal, no end in sight once deployed, and no one should have to deal with gangs and the military in their neighborhoods. There needs to be better answer(s) than military intervention, and those answers need more input from national leaders in law enforcement to make any of it work at this point.

    “No”…No thank you to the Guard.


  87. - Bill F. - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 2:57 pm:

    “I voted no. Taxpayers dollars from the whole state being used to take care of a municipal problem. Maybe if the problem were statewide I would agree but its not.”

    I hope you keep that in mind next time your town floods.


  88. - Will Caskey - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 2:58 pm:

    Maybe if the Guard was empowered to seize guns en masse? Otherwise I don’t see the point.


  89. - Demoralized - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 3:01 pm:

    When my dad was patrolling the Chicago streets in the 1960’s mess only one guy in the patrol was given live ammunition. The rest were window dressing I guess. If that would be the tactic then I wouldn’t see what good it would do to send in the National Guard.


  90. - Old Milwaukee - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 3:06 pm:

    Why not? If it’s about public safety, then they should call in the National Guard. What they are currently doing is not working. If the National Guard can be effective, and we should expect they would be, then do it to protect the people in those neighborhoods.

    To not do this because somebody wants to protect the reputation of politicians would be a travesty.


  91. - anonymoose - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 3:09 pm:

    National Guard - don’t they have weekend duties anyway? How about weekends during Summer patroling violence prone areas?

    Although I do see the other side…little impact, tax $ and grandstanding politicians.


  92. - I'm Strapped - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 3:20 pm:

    I vote no. Everyone who has any authority about most anything in Illinois is from Chicago. Their problem, let their Wizards solve it.Game-Set-Match!


  93. - WestSider - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 3:21 pm:

    Unless the Guard were detailed at the Illinois/ Indiana border, and perhaps the border of the south suburbs, with a charge to confiscate all firearms- what’s the point? So, No.


  94. - Cincinnatus - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 3:23 pm:

    No, not unilaterally. He should consider a request from Rahm, though.


  95. - Fed up - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 3:25 pm:

    Who is going to indemnify the guardsman when they get into a shooting, military humvees are not ideal for patrolling the city streets and alleys. What happens when some 19yo kid from Pickneyville gets killed by a GD. Rahm decided to downsize the police force probably the right call, may have gone a bit overboard, crime is down significantly over the past few years (2012 is an outlier year murders went up, not Crome as a whole) what is diffrent is reporting of each shooting is up. McCarth does seem to be out of his depth might be time for a change in leadership.


  96. - Gribble - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 3:30 pm:

    No way. To change the behavior is to change the DNA. That won’t happen.


  97. - Fan of the Game - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 3:32 pm:

    Troops are for battle, not law enforcement. While I feel for the victims and their families, the situation in this country would have to be very dire before I would want troops patrolling the streets. For instance, if foreign soldiers were to land on American soil, I could support this.

    The resources of the Chicago Police Dept., the Cook County Sheriff’s Dept. and the Illinois State Police should be able to handle the streets of Chicago.


  98. - Fan of the Game - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 3:34 pm:

    We also have resources from the FBI and other national law enforcement agencies in addition to the local and state law enforcement groups.


  99. - OldSmoky2 - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 3:35 pm:

    Absolutely not - The problem is on Mayor Emanuel’s back. The city needs more police. The CPD is incredibly short-staffed, to the point that it’s gotten really difficult to get a timely police response to anything other than a major shooting. The problem, as it is with the schools, the Health Department and most other city departments is a tax shortfall because Emanuel doesn’t want to cut all the tax breaks he’s given to his corporate buddies. Those include lowered property tax assessments (if you hire the right politically connected law firm) and a continuing string of tax-increment financing districts for developers and companies that are already highly profitable and located in areas that are already gentrified and well off. That’s not what TIF districts are supposed to be for.


  100. - RonOglesby - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 3:40 pm:

    @Anonymoose
    They drill 1 weekend a month… These are your neighbors, plumbers, computer geeks, doctors, some cops, truck drivers, phone salesmen and college kids…

    They aren’t sitting around every weekend waiting for some gov to call them out and are NOT trained for policing.

    Training to put down riots or do urban warfare is way different than policing.


  101. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 3:41 pm:

    – Maybe if the problem were statewide I would agree but its not.–

    That’s right, Downstater, no problemos whatsoever in Rockford, Rock Island, East St. Louis, Decatur, Springfield, Danville, Peoria, Effingham, Quincy, etc., not to mention the meth labs, the drug-dealing sheriffs down south and the junkie narcotics judges and prosecutors in St. Clair County.

    In my town, Oak Park, the local blotter is ripe every week with suburbanites, Downstaters and Midwesterners arrested after being found passed out on the nod from copping heroin around Columbus Park.

    It’s a Chicago thing. Keep telling yourself that.


  102. - Just Observing - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 3:42 pm:

    I lean towards no.

    1. It’s not their role in society.
    2. I don’t understand what they will be doing other than standing around. I could also see the National Guard being shot at as they stand on the corners. What would they do in response… spray the neighborhood with a machine gun?


  103. - Pacman - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 3:47 pm:

    I voted no, increase ISP presence. SOS has a police force, not sure they have the experience to handle real police work other than traffic enforcement. I could vote yes if they sent just MP units. A lot of weekend warrior cops in the MP units.


  104. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 3:49 pm:

    –For sure when the Gov and Nat Guard commanders would probably put them out in uniform with unloaded weapons…–

    Why’s that?

    What would be the purpose of employing the Reagan model of the Marines with their backs to the sea at the Beirut Airport?

    That didn’t turn out well. 241 unarmed Marines and service personnel were killed by a truck bomber.

    Is there some historical or contemporary Illinois equivalent you’re referencing?


  105. - Patrick Yeagle - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 3:52 pm:

    I voted “no.” 47th Ward nailed it. The real problem is persistent poverty, lack of adequate education and job opportunities, and a pointless drug war that makes criminals out of people who really need treatment. My generation is paying for the ongoing failures of the older generations. Thanks for that.


  106. - RonOglesby - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 3:55 pm:

    @Word

    Its fairly common here in the US. after 9/11 there were national guard troops in most airports. And in all but a couple they had their rifles, but no magazines or ammo. They were issued a cell phone or a walkie to contact someone else.

    This is not uncommon and bringing up Reagan as some type of get out of jail free card doesnt exactly help your argument. Just google national guard and unloaded weapons and you will see a decade of articles about that.
    My favorite? this LA Times image: http://www.keepandbeararms.com/images/unarmed_Nat_Guard.jpg


  107. - Pacman - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 3:56 pm:

    The city of Chicago might also enact some mutual aid agreements, I am sure they are in place. Contact ILEAS (Illinois Law Enforcement Alarm System) and request help like maybe some Mobile Force Field Teams. MFFT’s are designed for riots, but I am sure they can adapt. Tac teams are also available through ILEAS. Just some thoughts. If the state activates any of these teams the state pays the local departments who supply their officers to these teams. Help is there if you know where to look or your pride allows!


  108. - Just Observing - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 4:00 pm:

    @Pacman — I don’t think mutual aid agreements could be considered here. Mutual aid is generally reserved for one-time incidents (e.g. a massive fire, a terrorist attack, a manhunt, etc.) but not for ongoing, regular police work.


  109. - Ucster - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 4:01 pm:

    I cannot believe that anyone would vote “No” for something like this. It’s fairly obvious that the local police can’t keep up with the volume of violence there - no offense to the PD, they are vastly outnumbered. Something like a full scale search and destroy mission is needed in the worst areas.


  110. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 4:06 pm:

    –it’s been written about here before, but the Chicago magazine piece on the gangs and politics is worth reading. and those pols should stop feeding the beast,–

    Amalia’s right.

    Just as Big Bill Thompson and Len Small were in business with Capone, and plenty of Democrats and Republicans were in business with The Outfit and other elements of organized crime then and now, gang-bangers have political clout in some circles all over the state.

    How else do you stay in business? Not possible.

    If they had any brains, they’d launder their cash and go legit, like so many of the wealthiest and most prominent families in Illinois have over the years.


  111. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 4:17 pm:

    –This is not uncommon and bringing up Reagan as some type of get out of jail free card doesnt exactly help your argument. –

    I don’t have an argument. This is what you wrote:

    –For sure when the Gov and Nat Guard commanders would probably put them out in uniform with unloaded weapons…–

    I assumed you had a point and was wondering what it was.


  112. - Chavez-respecting Obamist - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 4:19 pm:

    No, why should the rest of the state pay for Chicago’s mess and failures?

    Let’s all remember statements like this the next time Southern Illinois floods, or has that earthquake that’s overdue.

    If you don’t want us in your state, kick us out. That way we get to keep all of that tax money we pay to bail the rest of the state out.


  113. - William j Kelly - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 4:25 pm:

    The American taxpayer has already trained and equipped the Egyptian military for this kind of threat, why not get our money’s worth and outsource it to them?


  114. - Raoul - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 4:31 pm:

    Only if they get to carry more than ten rounds per magazine. Otherwise, they will just be outgunned.


  115. - Keyrock - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 4:57 pm:

    Several points:
    1) The CPD is substantially down in manpower the past few years. This is, in large part, due to the City’s budget situation. Mayor Daley spent all the money on other things, and Rahm hasn’t spent money to build the force back. In fact, it’s not clear that new police are being hired quickly enough to replace retirements. There need to be more police officers, more intelligently deployed. The State could better spend money (it doesn’t have) by helping the City hire new police, instead of sending in the National Guard or other folks not trained to do the job.
    2) More and better police work would lead to a greater prison population. It would be nice if the state could pay for that, too.
    3) Addressing underlying social conditions and drug policy are, of course, a very big part of any solution.
    4) It’s very unclear to me that the City is safer and that shootings are down over time. Murders are down over the past 30 years (even adjusted for the population decline), but is that because trauma care is better, or because there are fewer shootings? I haven’t seen reliable statistics.


  116. - Arthur Andersen - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 5:01 pm:

    I voted No primarily because I don’t see the National Guard as a law enforcement agency in Chicago or anywhere else.
    As an aside, with all the bad press Monique has just generated, will the new “voice of Illinois Tourism”, Bill
    “Who?” Kurtis get an add-on to his state contract to tell people it’s safe to visit Chicago?


  117. - East Central Illinois - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 5:05 pm:

    Mike Madigan seems to control everything else; so let him walk down the streets of Chicago and then everything will be just fine.


  118. - DoubleD - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 5:08 pm:

    State taxpayers are not responsible for Chicago’s inability to police the streets. The mayor needs to fire some of his non-essential cronies and put more Chicago Police officers on the streets…is it a shock that this number had increased since City Hall decided to reduce street patrols. Pay up for the services you need.


  119. - Tequila Mockingbird - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 5:12 pm:

    The Chicago violence is a systemic problem resulting from generational poverty and the welfare system, gangs, and societal decay and family dysfunction.
    The NG is not the answer.


  120. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 5:19 pm:

    –will the new “voice of Illinois Tourism”, Bill
    “Who?” Kurtis get an add-on to his state contract to tell people it’s safe to visit Chicago?–

    LOL, that dude will emcee the opening of an Kwiki-Mart if the price is right.

    My favorite BK moment, outside of “Anchorman: The Legend of Ron Burgundy” was when he did a seventh-inning stretch on the radio with Santo and Pat Hughes.

    Santo said he’d seen an “American Justice” episode on the JFK assassination.

    “Bill,” Ronnie said in all seriousness, “I think the assassination of President Kennedy was not only bad for baseball, but for America, too. That, that, that Oswald, what was he doing, was he working with anybody?”

    I laughed myself numb, Hughes didn’t come back for a couple of innings and Kurtis took a long time before he began, “Well, Ronnie, there’s been some controversy….”


  121. - champaigndweller - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 5:20 pm:

    I voted no–even if it fixed the problem temporarily, I don’t see the Guard as a long-term solution. We need stronger leadership in these neighborhoods with the will to take on the gangs.


  122. - Precinct Captain - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 5:37 pm:

    ==since City Hall decided to reduce street patrols==
    Fantasy Land Alert.

    There are more patrols on the streets.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/03/chicago-police-overtime-d_n_3209850.html
    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-06-18/news/ct-met-chicago-police-overtime-zones-20130618_1_chicago-police-police-presence-overtime


  123. - West Side the Best Side - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 5:38 pm:

    I agree with other “No” posters who point out that the Guard is not the police. They are not trained to be day-to-day beat cops. Rahm should cut out all the CPD smoke and mirrors stuff, admit they are understaffed and hire more coppers. Any number of his grand plans (bikes, Maggie Daley parks, Chicago River, etc.) should be put aside for proper staffing. That will not solve the root problems of “Why” for all the violence, but if it can give some sense of safety to non-gangbangers, that might be a start.


  124. - Joan P. - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 5:45 pm:

    No. The last thing we need here is an occupying force, particularly one untrained in actual police work.

    I’d be very curious to know how the vote on this splits between people who live in Chicago and those who don’t.

    (For the record, I live on the south side of Chicago.)


  125. - Rudy - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 5:45 pm:

    No. Agree with 47th–no exit strategy, and Robert the Bruce–it’s Rahm’s call.


  126. - Just The Way It Is One - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 5:52 pm:

    No, as it is Local and State Law Enforcement’s primary task–but it’s reached the point, with all of the scores of daily shootings and gun violence, that I would NOT at all be averse to the Governor making clear to the Gangbangers and ALL of us who live in Illinois to publicly announce that he fully realizes that using the National Guard to assist in quelling the problem IS a viable OPtion available TO him–and that if it DOES reach the point of clear necessity that the State must step in because the situation borders on chaotic, that he would be willing to EXercise the option of that Power at his disposal…!


  127. - Fan - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 6:06 pm:

    It is hard to be sympathetic to Chicagoans on this question. You have an open bleeding wound, and your only thought process is to treat the bleeding and not the wound itself? It has taken decades of Liberal policy makers to get to this Utopia that you are sure will work, yet the same people you try to help with government assistance are the ones that keep killing each other? Them, the only answer you consider viable is “more government help”?

    Wake up! As one commenter stated this is occurring in “father free zones”. The break up of the two parent families is the root to this. It will take you decades to fix this. And it will never get fixed if you don’t acknowledge it. You need an idea to start? How about try and pushing a two parent family household? You rely need to address the wound now, and then the bleeding will stop. As for this question I say NO National
    Guard. Until these areas take a stand against this violence, you will never succeed. This needs to be cured from within.


  128. - Emily Booth - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 6:22 pm:

    The CPD is understaffed. I voted yes. I live in Chicago.


  129. - Ruby - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 6:33 pm:

    Quality early childhood education is a proven way to reduce crime and increase high school graduation rates in low-income communities.

    But Chicago also needs more trained police officers.


  130. - Timmeh - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 7:18 pm:

    @Fan. #1: It’s a few people advocating a possible solution. Frankly, I doubt anyone believes it is a permanent solution or even going to “solve” the problem.
    #2. Since you brought up 2-parent families, here’s the data on single parent families. 1/3 of kids are in single parent families now in Illinois. It’s not different in conservative states. It isn’t different in the small villages of 500 that I live near. It isn’t different in the suburbs. It’s not different in Chicago.
    http://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/tables/106-children-in-single-parent-families?loc=1&loct=2#detailed/2/10-19,2,20-29,3,30-39,4,40-49,5,50-52,6-9/false/867,133,38,35,18/any/429,430


  131. - Phenomynous - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 8:29 pm:

    Did I just read someone equating Chicago’s gun violence/gang problem to acts of natural disaster? Wow.


  132. - Amalia - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 9:16 pm:

    @Wordslinger, amazingly, I was listening to a Cubs game, the Cubs game where Santo yelled, “Oh No!!!!” and just a few days ago, I dialed in by accident, just where the play by play guy said “today, yesterday, and the 4th of July,” on the day after the 4th of July. it’s like the Cubs announcers are in some Christopher Guest piece.


  133. - A Casual Observer - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 9:18 pm:

    Over fifty years of Democrat mayoral leadership in the City of Chicago have enabled this sad situation to become what it has. Quinn would probably forbid the National Guard to use force of any kind to protect themselves and the Chicago residents if they were brought in there. I doubt that Rahm or Quinn would ever allow the National Guard to use a lethal defense to protect themselves (even rubber bullets). The gangs would chew them up and spit them out. It would lead to further violence if they sent in a toothless tiger to patrol the troubled areas. National guardsmen would soon become just addditional fatalities. The black churches and black leaders have always blindly and meekly accepted sub-par police protection and sub-par judges from the Democrat Party. As the old saying goes, “As you sow, so shall you reap. And, reaped they have. The people of Chicago should run another Harold Washington for Mayor of Chicago. Rahm Emmanual could not even pretend to identify with what the African-American community has been made to suffer over five decades of Democrat Party mayoral control in the City. Neither could the Daleys identify with the black community. They are so far removed from it all that they are perfectly content to “pocket personal enrichment” while they continue telling the black community that “I feel your pain” and “We are going to fix it for you”. Amazingly, the black community has willingly and meekly continued to swallow this bilge for over 50 years. Why? Is it because they have been beaten down for so long that they got to the point that they no longer think that they have any real political power on Election Day? Or, is it also because many of the black community’s leaders have chosen to personally profit by accepting this sub-standard treatment for their own communities from the mayor’s office? The people of Chicago need to elect a mayor (whether Republican, Democrat, or undeclared) that can truly feel their pain and who will fix it -no matter what the cost runs.


  134. - Precinct Captain - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 9:18 pm:

    I should also add that after you’ve got blacks in prison, there are a number of social structures put into place to discriminate against them for now having a record. Add this to the redlining that still goes on in home and car loans, the systematic shortchanging of schools with minority populations, and it is no wonder there aren’t more two parent homes. Racism systematically destroyed the widespread possibility for them.


  135. - Precinct Captain - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 9:27 pm:

    ==The black churches and black leaders have always blindly and meekly accepted sub-par police protection==
    You are just ignorant when you say that. Black leaders have fought for decades against police corruption, brutality, torture, harassment, and shortchanging. If you missed all of this, then you are being willfully ignorant.

    ==The people of Chicago should run another Harold Washington for Mayor of Chicago.==
    Last time they did 29 racists banded together to stop him in his tracks and the opponents who matched up against him made it clear the biggest difference for them was the fact that HW didn’t have their skin color.

    ==no matter what the cost runs==
    Another ignorant comment that ignores the realities of politics and finance.


  136. - fake county chairman - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 10:16 pm:

    A very tough enviroment troops would be subject to military law and civilian law would need a very close working relationship with local law enforcement with out actually declaring martial law very good program tonight on fox news about this problem


  137. - FormerParatrooper - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 10:20 pm:

    My vote is no.

    To answer yes would be wanting martial law in the City. A show of force won’t answer the problem. While the NG can be used for riot control, disaster assistance and combat, they are not well suited to act as policeman. Policeman have been taught the laws of the jurisdiction they police. It would take time and resources to have the NG taught those laws and to completely change the warrior mentality from a decade of war fighting.

    There is not an immediate fix to this without trampling the Constitution and Civil Rights. The fix has to come from the community where the problems exist. It will time to repair the issues, and I hope the people of the communities involved will funky say it is enough and not demand action from the government, but to take action and better situation. The government has proven ineffective, it is up to the community.


  138. - FormerParatrooper - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 10:24 pm:

    Not funky above, finally is what I thought I typed. Spell check is the enemy.


  139. - zatoichi - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 10:30 pm:

    Bring in the NG or expand the CPD by 1500 officers. OK. Where you plan to put the people causing the problems? In the already overcrowded prisons where they will qualify for early release to ease the over crowding? Going to build a new prison? Going to ask then nice to become model citizens and use ankle braclets to track where they go? The bucks to pay for all of this can come from where? By having a pension holiday?

    What is Monique doing behind the scene or she just talking for headlines?


  140. - RonOglesby - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 10:57 pm:

    @Word,
    thanks for avoiding the question.


  141. - wordslinger - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 12:50 am:

    Ron, what question did I duck? To the post, it was “no.” If there’s a question I missed, fill me in.

    –There is not an immediate fix to this without trampling the Constitution and Civil Rights. The fix has to come from the community where the problems exist. It will time to repair the issues, and I hope the people of the communities involved will funky say it is enough and not demand action from the government, but to take action and better situation. The government has proven ineffective, it is up to the community.–

    FP, there is some truth in what you write, but just some.

    The “community” devotes shared resources based on the priorities of those in power.

    In Chicago, Englewood and the Gold Coast are the same “community.”

    If your purse is snatched at Division and Lake Shore Drive on the Fourth, you’ve got four squads in minutes on the scene, a collar and a feel-good news story.

    That ain’t going to happen at Madison and Pulaski.

    Meanwhile, persons unknown are blasting away at persons mostly unmourned in Englewood and Austin.

    People do have to take responsibility for their neighborhoods, but money and power trump all when it comes to resources in any community.

    I could walk out the door, walk ten minutes into Austin and cop heroin right now. It’s been like that for years, not because of the folks living there, but because it’s a neglected neighborhood of poor people convenient to all Midwestern junkies right off the Ike.

    There is no open-air heroin market at the confluence of the Tri-state, Edens and Kennedy in Deerfield. There should be. No one lives there. It’s convenient as get-out to the suburban junkies, and largely unmonitored.

    But it’s the Walgreen corporate parking lot. They have clout and money talks. No open-air junk there, year after year, as in Austin, where people live and kids go to school.


  142. - FormerParatrooper - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 8:16 am:

    @ word

    It is a complicated issue, and so many factors exist that no one solution will work. I don’t live in the neighborhoods there, so I do not know the complete story. What I do know is what I have seen in other places when neighbors have had enough.


  143. - FormerParatrooper - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 8:20 am:

    Ok, my phone just posted before I was done…..

    The other places did not have the same perceived levels of violence of the Chicago neighborhoods, but the
    core issues I believe were the same, poverty, drugs etc.


  144. - The People - Wednesday, Jul 10, 13 @ 8:56 am:

    The only thing the National Guard should be removing is Quinn and Madigan from office. Until the Black Community quits blaming everyone else for their problems, this problem will never end.


  145. - natural remedies - Thursday, Jul 11, 13 @ 12:44 am:

    Great post.


  146. - trampoline reviews - Thursday, Jul 25, 13 @ 4:57 pm:

    Good post. I learn something new and challenging on
    sites I stumbleupon on a daily basis. It’s always exciting to read content from other authors and practice a little something from other sites.


Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.


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