SUBSCRIBE to Capitol Fax      Advertise Here      Mobile Version     Exclusive Subscriber Content     Updated Posts    Contact
CapitolFax.com
To subscribe to Capitol Fax, click here.
Hiding behind excuses

Monday, Dec 2, 2013

* You just gotta love stories like this

House members have been told that a one-day session is anticipated. Senators also could wrap things up on Tuesday, although they’ve been told the session could extend an extra day.

That schedule, though, is drawing complaints from some lawmakers that the pension reform bill is being rushed through the legislature before people have a chance to fully grasp all of its details, particularly those people who will be affected by the changes.

“That’s not enough time to digest it,” said Rep. Raymond Poe, R-Springfield. “You don’t give the people it affects enough time to do some research and crunch the numbers and see how it works. I think it puts everybody who’s affected by it at a serious disadvantage. Their people need a little time to digest this thing.”

Rep. Poe represents a kajillion state employees. There’s no way on God’s green Earth that he would be a “Yes” vote no matter how long they debated this bill.

Here’s a handy guide: Legislators who say they want to delay the vote are almost assuredly voting “No” anyway.

Look, there are very good reasons to have a full, open debate on this bill. But it’s so easy to use “debate” as an excuse, and far too easy for reporters to claim a legislative sentiment exists when everybody knows that the real reasons are quite different.

* Sen. Dillard may fall into that excuse category

Dillard wants two days of hearings before the Senate so all sides can have a say.

More

Like the unions, Dillard questioned the constitutionality of the plan, saying it lacked a “true bargain,” or give and take, with employees over the changing of their benefits. Supportive lawmakers say the agreement satisfies constitutional requirements of such give-and-take considerations, noting that employees actually would be required to contribute 1 percentage point less from their paychecks toward their retirements.

Man, wouldn’t it be something if a guy who voted for every union-opposed pension reform bill ends up voting against this one because of “constitutional questions”? He really wants that AFSCME endorsement, eh?

* And another gubernatorial hopeful is trying to stay a bit too quiet

Treasurer Dan Rutherford declined to comment on what’s viewed as one of the most pressing issues facing state government.

* From a Bill Brady statement

Senator Dillard voted for the major provisions of this agreement last spring. Treasurer Rutherford as a constitutional fiscal officer certainly understands the dire consequences on state finances of continuing down the current path. Why are they silent now?

This is a time for leadership and hard decisions, not a time to stand on the sidelines. Pension reform is an issue of fiscal responsibility and the future of Illinois

- Posted by Rich Miller        


29 Comments
  1. - Formerly Known As... - Monday, Dec 2, 13 @ 10:08 am:

    If proponents of this bill are confident in the contents of their plan, then they should welcome the chance to explain it in further detail with the public.

    After all, if it’s a sound solution for the good of the state…


  2. - Tsavo - Monday, Dec 2, 13 @ 10:13 am:

    Like the unions, Dillard questioned the constitutionality of the plan, saying it lacked a “true bargain,” or give and take, with employees over the changing of their benefits. Supportive lawmakers say the agreement satisfies constitutional requirements of such give-and-take considerations, noting that employees actually would be required to contribute 1 percentage point less from their paychecks toward their retirements.

    I am retired and no longer contribute to the pension fund. Where is the give and take for those already retired? Reducing the COLA on those already retired is all take.


  3. - Bogart - Monday, Dec 2, 13 @ 10:16 am:

    Dillard and Rutherford have just disqualified themselves in the race for Gov.


  4. - too obvious - Monday, Dec 2, 13 @ 10:16 am:

    Dillard has always been a spineless 2-timer on any big issue.

    But I’m actually just embarrassed for him now.


  5. - walkinfool - Monday, Dec 2, 13 @ 10:19 am:

    Such nonsense.

    Pretending not to know what’s going on, when variations of most of these ideas have been previously discussed every way possible, for two years now. The final packaging is new, but the elements are not. If you, as a Legislator, claim not to know what is being considered, then you are admitting you have been lazy, or don’t take your responsibilities seriously. It’s not that hard for you to get.

    Delay is just a tactic to try to change momentum, or to confuse everyone. Same goes for lobbyists and union bosses.


  6. - Whatever - Monday, Dec 2, 13 @ 10:20 am:

    Dillard hedging? Shocking.


  7. - wordslinger - Monday, Dec 2, 13 @ 10:23 am:

    I don’t agree with him on a lot of things, but Brady is showing that he has some guts. That’s admirable in a governor.


  8. - OneMan - Monday, Dec 2, 13 @ 10:23 am:

    I am not sure days of debate are needed but I think 24~36 hours with the bill text are not a bad idea…


  9. - Marty - Monday, Dec 2, 13 @ 10:32 am:

    I’m a state retiree(engineer) that does NOT need more time to digest this bill. It will create a huge pension benefit impairment for me that clearly violates the plain reading of the constitution’s pension protection clause. If a majority of our legislators believe this bill is constitutional, let’s get on with it and get to the courts.


  10. - Just Observing - Monday, Dec 2, 13 @ 10:32 am:

    Even if some people calling for a delay, in the name of transparency, are really just trying to obstruct the bill, the citizenry and interest groups deserve the opportunity to scrutinize the bill and for a period of debate to take place.


  11. - Bill White - Monday, Dec 2, 13 @ 10:33 am:

    Taken together, these two comments sum up where I stand on the “delay the vote” tactic:

    @walkinfool

    === Pretending not to know what’s going on, when variations of most of these ideas have been previously discussed every way possible, for two years now. The final packaging is new, but the elements are not. If you, as a Legislator, claim not to know what is being considered, then you are admitting you have been lazy, or don’t take your responsibilities seriously. It’s not that hard for you to get. ===

    and

    @OneMan

    === I am not sure days of debate are needed but I think 24~36 hours with the bill text are not a bad idea… ===

    Introduce the bill tomorrow and vote no later than Wednesday evening or Thursday.


  12. - Tom Joad - Monday, Dec 2, 13 @ 10:37 am:

    These three Senators had no trouble in the past in voting for a bill for Exelon when they put their bills through without a copy of the bill in committee. There was even less time to debate those bills since only drafts were shown to members before the vote.


  13. - Hit or Miss - Monday, Dec 2, 13 @ 10:37 am:

    I fully agree that a day or two more to fully look over the final bill is a good idea. Otherwise there is always the chance that something unexpected has been slipped in to bill.

    I think that the old proverb “Measure twice, and cut once.” applies in an important matter such as this.


  14. - Cornwall - Monday, Dec 2, 13 @ 10:40 am:

    Dillard is same guy who voted for Blagojevich’s pension skimming scheme in 2003.


  15. - Soccertease - Monday, Dec 2, 13 @ 10:40 am:

    There appears to be a lot more reasons to vote no than yes to the proposed bill. Glaring to me in the bill is the overreaction - going from 0% funding in some years to 100% actuarially-required funding is overkill.


  16. - RonOglesby - Monday, Dec 2, 13 @ 10:42 am:

    This:

    Here’s a handy guide: Legislators who say they want to delay the vote are almost assuredly voting “No” anyway.

    But, just because they will vote no anyway, doesn’t mean they are wrong… Any bill that has a huge financial impact (either way) or has any huge impact on the populace should ALWAYS be debated in the light of day and have a chance to be picked apart by the citizens and their reps.


  17. - Bill White - Monday, Dec 2, 13 @ 10:47 am:

    === Any bill that has a huge financial impact (either way) or has any huge impact on the populace should ALWAYS be debated in the light of day ===

    Wasn’t there a great deal of debate on the underlying principles this past June?

    If this bill is somewhere between SB1 and SB2404 (as it certainly appears to be) there already has been considerable debate and discussion.


  18. - flea - Monday, Dec 2, 13 @ 10:48 am:

    Rep. Poe wouldn’t be able to “digest” this proposal unless it was a fried chicken dinner. Please retire.


  19. - RNUG - Monday, Dec 2, 13 @ 10:50 am:

    Bill White @ 10:47 am:

    This bill is SB0001 wrapped up in some pretty ribbons and bows.


  20. - RNUG - Monday, Dec 2, 13 @ 10:52 am:

    As to delaying a vote for a day or two, here’s part of what I wrote very early this morning:

    Took close to 3 hours to wade through the draft just checking the changed portions and knowing what the previous proposed changes were. I can’t see a legislator who has not been paying attention to this issue being able to digest it quickly.


  21. - facts are stubborn things - Monday, Dec 2, 13 @ 11:04 am:

    =Supportive lawmakers say the agreement satisfies constitutional requirements of such give-and-take considerations, noting that employees actually would be required to contribute 1 percentage point less from their paychecks toward their retirements=

    What is the consideration for a retiree with a pension of say $65,000. It is simply a huge diminishment of hundereds of thousands of dollars over a 30 year period. Folks with “larger pensions” earned those by becoming quaified, educated etc. for hose higher paying posiitons. How on God’s green earth is ok to take so much away from that group. I know, that is where the money is and it is a calculated political move in hopes of dividing and conqering. Not much pitty out there for a person with a $65,000 pension.

    Don’t pay into the system and them steal from those who have paid in the most and who have earned the most. See you in court!


  22. - facts are stubborn things - Monday, Dec 2, 13 @ 11:10 am:

    @RNUG - Monday, Dec 2, 13 @ 10:50 am:

    =This bill is SB0001 wrapped up in some pretty ribbons and bows.=

    Totaly agree. Some compromise? I must say it was a very carefully crafted. A bill crafted to get the votes needed to pass? It did end any COLA freeze on those already retired. It did put in provisions to stay much better up with inflation for those whos pensions are at the threshold figures ie. $1000 times years of service. For those who have pensions much larger then this basic threshold it is one huge diminshment of pensions at the toon of hundereds of thousands of dollars over the next 25 to 30 years. Depends of course on exact amount of pension and the inflation assumptions you use, but even at inflation rates at the 3% range it still represents thousand and thousands of pension loss. I would like to understand what consideration is being given to those wiht “larger pensions”? For those folks it is a loose loose with zero consideration.

    Is the bill going to be written with the COLA as a severable component?


  23. - Bill White - Monday, Dec 2, 13 @ 11:42 am:

    @RNUG

    === I can’t see a legislator who has not been paying attention to this issue being able to digest it quickly. ===

    Heh!

    If this SB1 “with ribbons and bows” then the courts may well strike it down. But probably not until after November 2014.


  24. - Soon to be ripped off again - Monday, Dec 2, 13 @ 12:31 pm:

    Agree with Facts. The higher earnings were based on self-improvement, effort and work! Somehow our pensions have been portrayed as “freebies” courtesy of taxpayers (a group to which we belong) rather than earned benefits. Almost seems as if people think that if you are a public servant you need to work for free and be grateful for that job.


  25. - dave - Monday, Dec 2, 13 @ 1:46 pm:

    ** I can’t see a legislator who has not been paying attention to this issue being able to digest it quickly.**

    Of course, I can’t see many legislators even trying to read or digest it, which is why the argument of this being rushed is just silly.

    Legislators, with a handful of exceptions, are going to read their staff analysis of the bill. Very few will read the entire bill, whether or not it is voted on tomorrow or voted on in a week.


  26. - Anonymous - Monday, Dec 2, 13 @ 2:24 pm:

    Did anybody see this tweet by Pat Brady? Who is he shilling for?

    @pat_brady: Desperate Rutherford campaign throws perfect panderball announcing no pension reform because of his “constitutional concerns”


  27. - Commonsense - Monday, Dec 2, 13 @ 3:15 pm:

    “I am retired and no longer contribute to the pension fund. Where is the give and take for those already retired? Reducing the COLA on those already retired is all take.”

    Stop trying to make sense! Many in the GA, Madigan/Cross et al don’t care!

    But what I find most interesting is that I am not seeing legislators who are opposed to note this little detail. And even more interesting the unions don’t make comment upon it either.

    If I am wrong and it is being brought to public attention, please comment.


  28. - Formerly Known As... - Monday, Dec 2, 13 @ 4:06 pm:

    @Anonymous 2:24 - “shilling” for Rauner, based on his recent comments and tweets praising Rauner and only Rauner.


  29. - RNUG - Monday, Dec 2, 13 @ 10:46 pm:

    dave - Monday, Dec 2, 13 @ 1:46 pm:

    Unless they buy into whatever is handed to them by party leadership as “analysis”, it’s going to take the aides a day or so to be fully up to speed and get their recommendations down in writing.


Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.


* Afternoon updates
* Hospitals back removal of income tax sunsets
* The other strategy
* *** UPDATED 1x *** Quinn onboard; Rauner latches onto term limits proposal
* Because Illinois is a real battleground state
* Quinn dodges Rahm question on "Morning Joe"
* Morning Shorts
* Yesterday's blog posts

Support CapitolFax.com
Visit our advertisers...

...............

...............

...............

...............

...............

...............

...............


Search This Blog...

Search the 98th General Assembly By Bill Number
(example: HB0001)

Search the 98th General Assembly By Keyword

          
        * iPhone 6 curved design, Swarovski Galaxy S5, Android dialer & more – Pocketnow Daily
        * Sharp AQUOS 304SH boasts slim bezels on 5.2-inch display
        * Pinterest Adds Smarter Search Tool
        * Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 2014 Android 4.4.2 changes get detailed
        * Viber transmits and stores images and videos insecurely
        * NETGEAR STS7000 is a tablet geared for home security
        * Hulu Plus app now casts to PS3, PS4, Xbox One

        * Want This: Star Wars Millennium Falcon Windshield Sun Shade
        * DryFlush Saves Water, Will It Save The Planet?
        * ASUS C200 Chromebook Available For Pre-Order From Select Stores
        * Minecraft Xbox One Will Enjoy Saved Files From Xbox 360
        * Jumpr Juices Your Phone, Jumpstarts Your Car
        * Fan Remakes Resident Evil 2 With Unreal Engine As Proof Of Concept
        * Mark Zuckerberg Tried Out Sony’s Project Morpheus Before Acquiring Oculus VR

        * Detroit Tigers 7, Chicago White Sox 4: Scherzer Stops Sox
        * Quintana solid, but drops finale in Detroit
        * Johnson starts homestand opener vs. Rays
        * Quintana solid, but drops finale in Detroit
        * Walks working against the White Sox' plans for the bullpen
        * Viciedo maturing at the plate
        * Beckham returns, thrust into starting lineup


        Main Menu
        Home
        Illinois
        YouTube
        Pundit rankings
        Obama
        Subscriber Content
        Durbin
        Burris
        Blagojevich Trial
        Advertising
        Updated Posts
        Polls

        Archives
        April 2014
        March 2014
        February 2014
        January 2014
        December 2013
        November 2013
        October 2013
        September 2013
        August 2013
        July 2013
        June 2013
        May 2013
        April 2013
        March 2013
        February 2013
        January 2013
        December 2012
        November 2012
        October 2012
        September 2012
        August 2012
        July 2012
        June 2012
        May 2012
        April 2012
        March 2012
        February 2012
        January 2012
        December 2011
        November 2011
        October 2011
        September 2011
        August 2011
        July 2011
        June 2011
        May 2011
        April 2011
        March 2011
        February 2011
        January 2011
        December 2010
        November 2010
        October 2010
        September 2010
        August 2010
        July 2010
        June 2010
        May 2010
        April 2010
        March 2010
        February 2010
        January 2010
        December 2009
        November 2009
        October 2009
        September 2009
        August 2009
        July 2009
        June 2009
        May 2009
        April 2009
        March 2009
        February 2009
        January 2009
        December 2008
        November 2008
        October 2008
        September 2008
        August 2008
        July 2008
        June 2008
        May 2008
        April 2008
        March 2008
        February 2008
        January 2008
        December 2007
        November 2007
        October 2007
        September 2007
        August 2007
        July 2007
        June 2007
        May 2007
        April 2007
        March 2007
        February 2007
        January 2007
        December 2006
        November 2006
        October 2006
        September 2006
        August 2006
        July 2006
        June 2006
        May 2006
        April 2006
        March 2006
        February 2006
        January 2006
        December 2005
        April 2005
        March 2005
        February 2005
        January 2005
        December 2004
        November 2004
        October 2004

        Blog*Spot Archives
        November 2005
        October 2005
        September 2005
        August 2005
        July 2005
        June 2005
        May 2005

        Syndication

        RSS Feed 2.0
        Comments RSS 2.0
        WordPress

        Loading


        * Sosnowski, other state leaders respond to Gov. .....
        * Minimum- and low-wage workers react to Gov. Pat.....
        * Dem Governor of Illinois Condones Comparison Be.....


        * Man pleading guilty in drugs for bitcoins scheme
        * Man charged with giving girlfriend HIV
        * Man charged with giving girlfriend HIV
        * Ill. jobs screened for political ties after hiring
        * Ex-Marine sentenced to die in sailor's slaying
        * Quinn: Obama library should get private funds too
        * Twice-fired police chief charged with battery
        * Illinois governor praises work of slain doctor
        * Illinois researchers to study Washington mudslide
        * Severe storms loom across central US this weekend

        * State jobs screened for political rules after hires
        * Bankruptcy court trial sought over $3.8 million paid to Parsons
        * Amazon takes hit in states with online tax, study says
        * State audit: Police training money misspent
        * Audit: Treasurer's office has 30 guns not given to police
        * Madigan: 'Misunderstanding' on Obama library vote
        * Madigan re-elected to lead state Democratic party
        * Hastert, other state Republicans supporting immigration reform
        * Lawsuit seeks investigation of hiring under Quinn
        * Patronage allegations give Rauner fodder in race against Quinn

        * Chicago City Council committee OKs plastic bag ban
        * Feds to review Northwestern bid to unionize
        * United stock takes biggest tumble since October 2011
        * Next up for CPS: Barack Obama College Prep
        * Left set to play Kochs' game: Liberal elite meet here Sunday


        * CPS puts $100 million price tag on mayor's A/C-in-schools edict
        * Man fatally shot Thursday night in Auburn Gresham neighborhood
        * Woman sexually assaulted near Matteson Metra station
        * Priest in 2nd child abuse investigation won’t be alone with kids: archdiocese
        * Reject firefighter staffing bill
        * Chicago man charged with giving girlfriend HIV; wife died of AIDS
        * Trio charged with robbing stores, gas stations in city, suburbs
        * His wife died of AIDS, now Chicago man is charged with giving girlfriend HIV
        * Pedicab operators say a crackdown could put them out of business
        * Robo-calls on pension reform bill raise Rauner-Rahm rift


        * 1 dead, 7 injured in shootings
        * Woman sexually assaulted in Matteson
        * Illinois graduated income tax vote next week
        * Dutch man charged in Chicago with selling drugs for bitcoins
        * Ravinia sales brisk, but wait long, as ticket-buying opens
        * New Chicago high school to be named for Obama
        * Lawyers for men charged in NIU hazing death challenge law
        * Coach fired in Maine West hazing scandal fails to win back job
        * Illinoisans have lowest home-state opinions in the U.S., poll says
        * Mom on death penalty for Torrez: ""I only wish I could do it myself"


        * Secret recording shows Uber's efforts to poach Chicago cabbies
        * Springfield Ordinances for Lincoln's Funeral Unearthed
        * Illinois Finally Gets 'No Child Left Behind' Waiver
        * Chicago aldermen pass plastic bag ban
        * City Council panel passes plastic bag ban
        * Marian Anderson Tribute - 'The Concert That Shook The Establishment'
        * Organic foods sold by Walmart create fear among some organic farmers and farm advocates
        * Senator Kirk joins Revolution in backing Small BREW Act
        * Listen To State Week - April 18, 2014
        * Earth Friendly Event In Springfield This Weekend


        * State jobs screened for political rules after hires
        * Quinn: Obama library should get private funds too
        * Rauner skips GOP event over pastor's comments
        * Quinn backs term limits for constitutional officers
        * Rauner wants Quinn to release hiring documents
        * Bernard Schoenburg: Barr borrowed late in sheriff campaign to keep ads flowing
        * Cristal Thomas: Protecting Illinois’ pregnant workers shouldn’t be a heavy lift
        * Remap group says it is not political
        * Quinn clout hiring faces scrutiny
        * Judge OKs use of lawmaker's post-arrest statement


        * Deadline approaches for memorial bricks
        * Jacksonville man receives French Legion of Honour
        * Major gets first-hand look at volunteer spirit
        * State legislature to consider term limits
        * Police Beat
        * Our view: Patronage
        * Taxpayers don’t need this monumental bill
        * Upcoming Services (April 25, 2014)
        * Open Line
        * Bullying Awareness at RCC


        * The 10th District money race
        * Aurora Democrat calls out IHSA
        * Lawyers: Ill. hazing law vague, unconstitutional
        * Ill. House OKs lower-cost hunting bill for seniors
        * Quinn’s running mate takes new consulting job

        * Rep. Jan Schakowsky: The Affordable Care A...
        * Aaron Schock's fabulously exciting Instagr...
        * Chuck Sweeny: Adam Kinzinger, Aaron Schock...
        * In immigration news: Republicans for refor...
        * Illinois Republicans warm to legal status ...
        * GOP 'Congressman with Abs' Aaron Schock Ha...
        * Illinois Republicans Call for Immigration ...
        * Rep. Aaron Schock in Japan, China, South K...
        * Lewis lauds Dirksen's role in civil rights...
        * Civil rights icon John Lewis says next gen...

        * Loading Koch Industries Website Too Many T......
        * Maryland and DC among worst for food aller......
        * Cleveland State University to reestablish ......
        * Convicted political boss Al Sanchez runnin......
        * Candidates make last filings for local, st......

        * Illinois Lt. Gov. Simon opposes pension le......
        * Dillard Odd Man Out on Pension Deal Reaction...
        * Sen. Mark Kirk sides with Rauner on pensio......
        * Governor's race infighting threatens pensi......
        * SCHOONERS - Home of Everyone's Favorite Be......

        * The Tea Party Genome
        * Chicago Reader: It's getting harder to snicker at Obamacare
        * Heartbreak Hotel
        * Major Oil & Gas Firm To List Drilling Chemicals
        * Durbin Says FDA E-Cigarette Regulations Don't Go Far Enough
        * Herbalife Punished 600 Distributors For Medical Claims: ABC News
        * Harmon To Push For Graduated Tax Vote Next Week
        * Madigan blames Tea Party for $100M Obama Library re-vote
        * Oberweis remains committed to border security, immigration law enforcement
        * One In Ten U.S. Bridges In Urgent Need Of Repair: Report


        * Cases of Chlamydia, Gonorrhea and HIV on the Rise Nationally - Residents Are Encouraged to Get Tested for STDs
        * State Insurance Regulators Urge Property Owners to Review/Add Coverage to Protect from Floods & Water Damage - Most homeowners’ policies do not cover flood damage
        * Governor Quinn Statement on New Proposal to Enact Term Limits for Constitutional Officers
        * Statement from Governor Quinn on the Passing of Dr. Jerry Umanos
        * Governor Quinn Proclaims “Wrigley Field Day” - Home of the Chicago Cubs Turns 100 Years Old Today




            Hosted by MCS SUBSCRIBE to Capitol Fax Advertise Here Mobile Version Contact Rich Miller