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Thursday, Feb 13, 2014

* The oftentimes brutally confrontational, divisive and even mean-spirited Bruce Rauner talked like a reasonable human being for a change

Does downstate Illinois get too big of a share of the state’s road fund? The Republican candidates for governor don’t think so.

Legislators from Chicago and its suburbs have complained that less populated parts of the state receive a disproportionate amount of transportation revenues. Currently, funds are divided in a 55/45 split, with the Chicago area getting the smaller chunk. Bruce Rauner thinks it’s an extension of a feud as old as the state itself.

“I’ve heard the debate about downstate versus metro Chicago,” Rauner said. “The fighting within our state is one of the problems we’ve got.”

The regional fighting will never go away, but it has to be toned down. For too many years, particularly in Downstate, politicians have spent millions of dollars ginning up regional hostilities to benefit their own political hides. People quite often take their cues from their leaders, so the campaign rhetoric is not helpful in the least.

* But if regional fighting is bad, as Rauner admits, what about his threats to set a torch to the Statehouse? Food for thought, Bruce.

- Posted by Rich Miller        


69 Comments
  1. - lake county democrat - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 12:48 pm:

    Rauner isn’t about regional fighting, he’s not gun-ho about cutting taxes, he’s not about social issues - if elected his schtick is going to be a Christie/Scott-like attack on unions. There’s so much discussion about what a hypocritical creep the guy is, and that’s fine, but so little about how that would translate to how he would govern.


  2. - Richard - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 12:55 pm:

    Well said, Rich.

    It’s mostly a one way street. There is plenty of political capital to be earned in Chicago-bashing for downstate pols. But Chicago are pols really don’t gain anything from bashing downstate, so it is rarely done. Most ordinary Chicagoans just don’t think much about “downstate” at all….and maybe that’s one of the things that gets under downstater’s skin.


  3. - CicrcularFiringSquad - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 1:06 pm:

    But isn’t Mitt Rauner supporting a remap plan that will lead to fewer downstate districts?
    BTW he was on Blagoof-AM still denying he was behind the trash job on DandyDan. Did not sound convincing


  4. - wordslinger - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 1:11 pm:

    The regional bashing is disheartening. I’ve lived and worked all over the state, all of my life, and it’s just so ignorant.

    As to the road fund split, it makes sense to me. Got some wide open spaces downstate that need to be connected.

    Living in Oak Park, I don’t have to drive at all to get to and from work and do my business. It’s a big reason I choose to live here.


  5. - Bored Chairman - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 1:12 pm:

    CFS,
    Do you actually read the over the top drivel you write before clicking “Say It!” ?


  6. - DuPage - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 1:22 pm:

    They will say whatever it takes to get elected. What they do later is sometimes very different.


  7. - John A Logan - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 1:29 pm:

    As a “downstate” resident, I get weary of the rhetoric about regionalism that comes out of Chicago. This is, without a doubt, two separate states on nearly every level. Culturally, economically, politically, there are few similarities between Cook county and 98 other Illinois counties. It’s natural that downstate reps and senators would be critical of Chicago because they don’t agree with the policies that germinate there and eventually infect the rest of the state. So forgive me if I don’t appreciate the high brows from the north wanting the unwashed massed from the south to “tone it down.”


  8. - wordslinger - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 1:29 pm:

    BC, the Rauner plan would reduce the number of Senate seats from 59 to 41.

    How in the world would that not cause a loss of Downstate seats? The Senate districts would be enormous.


  9. - wordslinger - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 1:35 pm:

    –This is, without a doubt, two separate states on nearly every level. Culturally, economically, politically, there are few similarities between Cook county and 98 other Illinois counties.–

    That’s utter nonsense.

    Culturally: Watch TV? Read books? Go to the movies? Like sports? Listen to music? That’s all different, depending on what county you live in?

    Economically: Got a job? Pay taxes? Got a mortgage? Gas up the car? Go to the grocery store? What are you talking about, exactly?

    Politically: There are differences. By far, the most Republican votes in Illinois come from Cook County. And they leave a lot of points on the field, believe me.


  10. - wordslinger - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 1:41 pm:

    –BTW he was on Blagoof-AM still denying he was behind the trash job on DandyDan. Did not sound convincing–

    That’s interesting. How did he word it? Did he say his peeps weren’t peddling the story on the “hotel rooms.”


  11. - Bored Chairman - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 1:44 pm:

    WS. Ever heard of one person, one vote? Every area would “lose” seats with fewer seats available. But thanks for playing “let’s get downstate folks riled up over a non issue.”


  12. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 1:48 pm:

    I though counties vote. I hear that all the time.

    Anyone who might think Downstate, or anywhere outside Cook and/or the Collars might get a better “shake” with 41 not 59, they need to see how the 59 are drawn first, see their size, now imagine even bigger districts.

    Yikes. Bad news.


  13. - wordslinger - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 1:51 pm:

    LOL, yes I have, BC. Spin it for Bruce all you want.

    Then draw a map where Downstate doesn’t lose more seats than Cook and the Collars.


  14. - OneMan - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 1:54 pm:

    Fewer downstate districts. Well fewer districts everywhere would mean fewer districts downstate…

    However a map a little more logically drawn (so a district does not go from Chicago to Crete would be a good start) might help downstate a bit.


  15. - Jorge - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 1:56 pm:

    Chairman, maybe you should take your own advice before you click or tap say it.


  16. - Six Degrees of Separation - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 2:04 pm:

    Downstate has 80% of the state road network but only 55% of the funding, and the winters wreak havoc on the roads, even the ones that don’t carry a lot of traffic. Chicago area has only 20% of the state road network, but it is expensive to maintain and fix and most roads carry much more traffic than their downstate counterparts on a daily basis. 55/45 sounds about right to me, and if the formula is off, it’s not by much.


  17. - Bored Chairman - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 2:08 pm:

    OneMan, a voice of reason amidst the braying comments here. WS, how is calling out partisan nonsense “spinning for Bruce?” Jorge, bite me.


  18. - x ace - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 2:09 pm:

    Downstate and Glenn Poshard sure enough got Bashed by Metro Chicago. So gotta view it as a two way street.


  19. - Jorge - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 2:10 pm:

    Chairman, you hypocrites crack me up and no thanks. I’ve had much better offers lately.


  20. - Anon1976 - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 2:13 pm:

    wordslinger…”That’s utter nonsense.”
    You gotta be kidding. Chicago is far left, the south is not. Chicago taxes the hell out of their people. The south would not put up with it. And name a Democrat Governor who recently won a larger PERCENTAGE of the vote south of I-80.


  21. - Bored Chairman - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 2:15 pm:

    Six Degrees, please provide a cite for your claim that downstate has 80% of the state road network. Jorge, I’m sure you got straight A’s in debate class.


  22. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 2:15 pm:

    Fewer seats means downstate districts will be huge, and with less of a say in the General Assembly.

    The large districts now, would even be larger, and fewer.


  23. - Dan Johnson - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 2:17 pm:

    Anyone at the debate that can verify that all four candidates did, in fact, agree that the 55/45 split should stay? The article didn’t explicitly report on that purported area of agreement.


  24. - steve schnorf - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 2:20 pm:

    Rich, I see things like this post and it almost always raises the same question in my mind: Rauner, as a non-culture warrior fiscal conservative should be attractive to many R moderates like me, so why don’t I feel positive about his candidacy?


  25. - wordslinger - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 2:20 pm:

    –The regional fighting will never go away, but it has to be toned down. For too many years, particularly in Downstate, politicians have spent millions of dollars ginning up regional hostilities to benefit their own political hides–

    I can’t say I’ve ever heard anyone up north campaigning against “Downstate.”

    Poshard got beat by suburban women, period. That’s the way it usually goes in this state.


  26. - too obvious - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 2:21 pm:

    Let’s be accurate. He doesn’t want to “torch” the Statehouse. He’s going to bust it up with his big sledgehammer.

    Although you’re right he does play around with a lighter in one of his ads. #firebug


  27. - Smoggie - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 2:22 pm:

    John Logan,

    Could you identify a single instance of a Chicago elected official bashing downstate?

    In reality John, it is like Richard said above.
    People here don’t think about you.
    We don’t bash you. We just don’t care.
    And that’s what seems to bother people like you.

    So yes, I agree. This regionalism needs to stop. It is counter-productive. Plus, just as a practical standpoint, why would a Cook County resident vote for a person [let’s call that Republican “Bill” for the purpose of this conversation] who rambles on about how much he hates Cook County?

    If you lived in Cook County, do you vote for “Bill” who declares that you are corrupt and the source or all problems in this state? Do you really think “Bill” is going to care about your area if he gets elected?


  28. - Jorge - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 2:25 pm:

    I didn’t take debate classes. Just learned to think before I speak or type Chairman.


  29. - Upon Further Review - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 2:25 pm:

    Pate Philip’s entire career was based upon bashing Chicago.


  30. - Smoggie - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 2:26 pm:

    Steve Schnorf,

    You don’t feel positive for two reasons:
    1. His “I have no views, so let’s hold a referendum” makes you think he has no real core values; and

    2. If he gets his daughter into Payton and in so doing steps in front of a poor and well deserving student, you realize that when it comes down to it, fairness doesn’t really matter to him. Bruce comes first. That’s the way it is going to me.

    I had that same issue. Rauner plays the role of the business savvy fiscally conservative independent. I want to like him. But I just can’t.


  31. - Jorge - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 2:27 pm:

    As to the regionalism thing. I’ve been all over this state and it seems to be an insecurity issue with many downstaters. I could be wrong but that’s just my personal observation.


  32. - wordslinger - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 2:38 pm:

    –I see things like this post and it almost always raises the same question in my mind: Rauner, as a non-culture warrior fiscal conservative should be attractive to many R moderates like me, so why don’t I feel positive about his candidacy?–

    LOL.

    In my mind, it’s the breathtaking dishonesty and hypocrisy, in all things.


  33. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 2:41 pm:

    “Bruce Rauner” can’t be honest with himself as to who he is, what he had done, and what he represents.

    While “selling” ideas, the salesman is as oily as they come.


  34. - Chris - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 2:44 pm:

    “Fewer seats means downstate districts will be huge, and with less of a say in the General Assembly.

    The large districts now, would even be larger, and fewer.”

    I didn’t realize dirt gets a voice.

    [I understand the point about the challenges of adequately representing a geographically large area,but that’s not quite the same as what you said.]

    Serious question, aside from the noted, and substantial, ‘travel’ (broadly speaking–including dealing with extra county committees) challenges, why does a shift from representing 200,000 people to 300,000 people have a disparate impact on a district going from 3,000 sq mile to 5,000 sq miles, v. one going from 15 to 25? Why would the larger one lose proportionately more voice than the smaller one?


  35. - VictorNorth - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 2:46 pm:

    “The oftentimes brutally confrontational, divisive and even mean-spirited Bruce Rauner.”

    Sounds like whining to me….

    I have yet to see anything of this so-called mean spirited nature. I find BR to be confident and professional.


  36. - wordslinger - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 2:48 pm:

    –As to the regionalism thing. I’ve been all over this state and it seems to be an insecurity issue with many downstaters. I could be wrong but that’s just my personal observation.–

    It’s the Fox News business plan:

    A small number of cynical loudmouths appealing to the fears and prejudices of a minority of eternal victims. But that can be a deciding factor in a GOP primary.

    Most people I know downstate are too busy working and raising their families to pay attention to that trash.


  37. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 2:51 pm:

    - VictorNorth -,

    “Mike Madigan never had to deal with anyone like me”

    That sound, “collegial”?

    “You’re time is up” - that sound very … compromising?

    “Done, you’re out”, does that sound like a negotiator for common ground ?

    How’s that kool-aid? Raunerbot mascot, the Lemming, agrees with you, so that’s nice.


  38. - Chavez-respecting Obamist - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 2:53 pm:

    Anon1976,

    As an actual far leftwing voter, Chicago is not uniformly far leftwing. It’s actually pretty conservative from way over here in LeftyLand. I also don’t find the taxes overly burdensome, given we have streets and trash pickup and police and fire departments and public transit and schools to pay for. I would like to see the number of aldermen cut in half and more sharing of duties between the city and county governments.


  39. - Anonymous - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 3:04 pm:

    Bored @ 2:15 ” claim that downstate has 80% of the state road network.”

    December/2012. IDOT.
    D1 is Cook & collars
    State County Twp/Muni Toll
    D1. 2775 18731 23210. 207
    D2. 1607 1957 10526. 68
    D3. 1691. 2000. 11849. 19
    D4. 1632. 1984. 10191
    D5. 1306. 1160. 9265
    D6. 2078. 2233. 14543. .3
    D7. 1635. 2218. 13482
    D8. 1799. 1499. 9991
    D9. 1470. 1588. 9487. .53


  40. - Jackson and Laflin - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 3:05 pm:

    What does it say about our country when a guy who makes 30 million dollars a year can tap into a brewing jealously of public employees.

    “YOU don’t have a job because THEY make 50k a year, have pensions and health insurance. No No No, the fact that your job at the plant went to Mexico has nothing to do with it. It’s the unions and the budget deficit they created that put you out work…..”

    The fact that his messaging can even begin to be characterized as some sort of “populism” speaks volumes of how pathetic this race to the bottom between the states has become.


  41. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 3:05 pm:

    ===I didn’t realize dirt gets a voice.===

    Dirt doesn’t. Counties don’t vote either.

    Fewer districts, means fewer voices. If you have 18 (fit argument sake, k? A map would determine, but for a discussion…) downstate districts, 18/59, and mos you have 11/41, you go from 30% to 27%, a loss.

    Dirt, like counties, don’t vote, but fewer people representing the same dirt loses impact and power.


  42. - Cornerfield - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 3:11 pm:

    BC:
    “Six Degrees, please provide a cite for your claim that downstate has 80% of the state road network.”

    IDOT has 9 Districts. District 1 is basically the Chicago metro area. D1 has 2787 State maintained non-toll road miles. Statewide non-toll road miles = 16,000. That works out to 17%. 20% is pretty close.

    Ref: www.dot.il.gov/travelstats/mileage.html


  43. - Rich Miller - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 3:13 pm:

    ===80% of the state road network===

    Yeah, but lots of those roads get like two cars a day on them. An exaggeration to make a point.


  44. - mokenavince - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 3:18 pm:

    Rauner’s a Cook county guy ,if elected look for the Capital to be in Chicago.


  45. - Anon1976 - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 3:21 pm:

    Rich:

    “Yeah, but lots of those roads get like two cars a day on them. An exaggeration to make a point.”

    You trying to “gin up regional hostilities?”


  46. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 3:24 pm:

    I don’t know about that - mokenavince -, “Bruce Rauner” and his wife wang to live like the “little people” in a mid-size mansion in Springfield, the Baron says.

    “Look Honey, plumbing!”

    “Bruce! You big stinker! They have electricity, why did you tease me!”

    Yep. Just like the “little folk”


  47. - Mister M - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 3:30 pm:

    “politicians have spent millions of dollars ginning up regional hostilities to benefit their own political hides.”
    Sorta like the campaign to demonize public sector workers and “union bosses”, right?


  48. - Redistrict this - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 3:31 pm:

    There’s no way anyone can predict the impact of reducing to 41 seats in terms of relative influence.

    Except for one and two districts, the more districts you have the more difficult it becomes for the districts to not represent the demographics of the state. So fewer districts make it easier to give more influence to any one party or any one area.

    It would be entirely possible for a 41 seat Senate to be drawn with greater influence for downstate. Or not.


  49. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 3:34 pm:

    - Mister M -,

    Than Baron Von Carhartt will understand all this…

    ===There’s no way anyone can predict the impact of reducing to 41 seats in terms of relative influence.===

    Then why change to 41 if it might just stay the same, “all the same”?


  50. - Been there, Heard that. - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 3:36 pm:

    –For too many years, particularly in Downstate, politicians have spent millions of dollars ginning up regional hostilities to benefit their own political hides.–

    Rich is oh so right about this, but it is even worse than he says.

    I have lived equal thirds of my life in downstate, the big city, and in the burbs. The blind rhetoric I hear from SOME folks when I visit rural downstate just floors me: “All our money gets taxed away from us and sent to Chicago and we get absolutely nothing in return. Illinois government is a complete waste for us Downstaters. We need to create a brand new state south of I-80.” (i.e. Total B.S.)

    News flash: Rural Illinois counties are net tax receivers. Roads, bridges, schools, water systems, school buildings, libraries, numerous other capital projects, state police service, prisons, judicial systems, state highway dept services, health and welfare programs, state employment of local residents, state-funded pensions including for teachers, funding for public schools, community colleges, and state colleges. What else have I missed?

    Downstate rural counties are on the receiving end of a lot of dollars, which happen to originate primarily from north of I-80. And yes, it serves a greater public good. I don’t begrudge it, just wish the story could change for the better, as Rich said.

    I invite “anti-Chicago” pols to tally a true accounting of every dollar paid in state taxes and every dollar received from the state in every category of life for each individual rural Illinois county. It won’t support their rhetoric…which is why they’ll never show their voters those numbers.


  51. - Rod - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 3:42 pm:

    Oswego Willy while I share many of your concerns about Mr. Rauner, his wife is an entire different story. Diana Mendley Rauner who is president of the Ounce of Prevention Fund is for real. She has a Ph.D. in developmental psychology from the University of Chicago, an M.B.A. from the Stanford Graduate School of Business and a B.A. from Yale University.

    Her work in the interests of very young children has generally been outstanding. It is a mystery to me why her and Bruce are together given that she is a Democrat from what I know, love apparently knows no boundaries.

    Diana is not some little society darling, she goes to work every day just like us. But unlike most of us she really doesn’t have to does she?


  52. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 3:47 pm:

    - Rod -,

    Does she have an $18 watch and wear a pristine Carhartt too?

    The only time Bruce Rauner talks about her is when “Brucd Rauner” is throwing her under to bud for tend of thousands of dollars to Democrats, like Rahm or Rich Daley.

    She is so supportive, I think I have even seen a picture or two of her, not much more than “Slip and Sue Sanguietti” but that isn’t saying much.

    How exciting. I wonder if they both will be “fundamentally excited” to downsize to the Mansion?


  53. - Montrose - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 3:54 pm:

    OW- I think the point is that there is enough material on Bruce that you don’t need to pull his wife into it. Let’s focus on Brucey’s shortcomings and leave her out of it.


  54. - Six Degrees of Separation - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 3:56 pm:

    Regarding the 83% of state highways downstate: These are state highways, the backbone of agriculture downstate and people and goods movement of all kinds. Even though there are state highways that get less than 1000 cars a day downstate, they are the exception and the majority of state highways downstate do carry at least seveal throusand cars a day, with pockets of heavy traffic in the urbanized areas of downstate. Ever been on I-57 between Mount Vernon and I-24? Surprisingly busy. If the downstate areas get less funding I suggest the state highway network will need to shed some mileage in order to properly maintain the remaining network. The ravages of Illinois weather and poorly drained earth affect whatever road you have here, whether there’s 1,000 or 20,000 cars a day on it.


  55. - Precinct Captain - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 3:56 pm:

    ==Then draw a map where Downstate doesn’t lose more seats than Cook and the Collars.==

    Let these folks draw a map that will be tossed out in court.

    ==- Chavez-respecting Obamist - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 2:53 pm:==

    Anon1976 ignores the fact that “far left” Chicago was one of MLK’s biggest defeats, delivering a limp and lame open housing ordinance that neither promoted open housing nor punished discriminatory housing. “Far left” Chicago had a racist cabal that attempted to stymie every single action taken by the first non-white mayor and drew ward maps to prevent minority representation. “Far left” Chicago allowed a reactionary police commander to systematically abuse black men and coerce them into false confessions for crimes. “Far left” Chicago drove nearly $100 million dollars to the “far left” concept of charter schools. I could go on about school closings and mental health clinics.


  56. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 3:59 pm:

    - Montrose -,

    Understood. But understand, “Bruce Rauner” actually says he and his wife look forward …

    She seems to be a convenient crutch, a “prop” like the watch and the coat, and a built in excuse for Dem donations.

    Not my words, “Bruce” says they both look forward…


  57. - Phineas J. Whoopee - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 5:05 pm:

    OW, if you think she is a crutch now, wait till you see what happens if he wins the primary. I predict, she will be front and center on all woman’s issues. He will, of course, bow to his wife’s experience. It makes me gag but it will be quite effective.


  58. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 5:11 pm:

    How did that work for Hillary and healthcare…

    Right now, she is on an Oberweis milk carton. How “pushy” the Rauner Crew goes after March, if they win, will really upset the GOP voters they may want to keep from nog voting at all in the race. Tough balancing act.


  59. - BIG R. Ph. - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 5:12 pm:

    No different than Mrs. Obama spending $12k on a dress for 1 night then Mr. Obama giving a speech the next day about “income Inequality”

    Just the Chicago way


  60. - wordslinger - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 5:17 pm:

    Love when Big Pharma, chimes in.

    Cool, dude? Be good to yourself.


  61. - 47th Ward - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 5:23 pm:

    ===Just the Chicago way===

    Mrs. Obama wore a dress to a knife fight?


  62. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 5:26 pm:

    === ===Just the Chicago way===

    Mrs. Obama wore a dress to a knife fight?===

    Sean Connery gave her the call box key with the “Santa judea” medal?


  63. - Emanuel Can't - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 6:15 pm:

    OW, the reason to reduce the number of senate seats is that it is required to ensure term limits are found constitutional. Did you really not know that?


  64. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 6:29 pm:

    I am against term limits, so if it is a barrier to term limits, then even better…

    (I was waiting for someone to comment and discuss the manipulation of representation for the term limit arguement. Thanks!)

    Funny, those so upset about term limits would rather put into play another way to ruin GA representation to do something that isn’t proven to work or not work.

    Democracy I guess isn’t as easy as 1 person 1 vote, so take away the right to vote for whomever you want.

    “If it was good enough for Ronald Reagan…” (who hated term limits, lol)


  65. - Emanuel Can't - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 7:04 pm:

    I’m for term limits for leadership. Not sure about the rest. But OW, we don’t live in a democracy. We live in a Republic. Fewer representatives does not mean less representation. By the logic of some on here, having thousands of legislators would be a more “fair” result. Sorry. Don’t buy it.


  66. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Feb 13, 14 @ 7:14 pm:

    “The key difference between a democracy and a republic lies in the limits placed on government by the law, which has implications on minority rights. Both forms of government use a representational system where citizens vote to elect politicians to represent their interests and form the government. However, in a republic, a constitution or charter of rights protects certain inalienable rights that cannot be taken away by the government, even if it has been elected by a majority of voters. In a pure democracy, the majority is not restrained and can impose its will on the minority.”

    When the ILGA went from 177 on the IL House to 118, the idea of having independent legislators went out the window. The 2 Caucuses became regimes, and the idea of thoughtful legislators working together in a bipartisan way fell off.

    You go from 59 to 41, history may repeat itself with entrenched partisans with fewer seats.

    Fewer is not better. We have 13 Million residents, 177 total in a General Assembly is not “legislator heavy”


  67. - Mason born - Friday, Feb 14, 14 @ 8:29 am:

    Willy

    Can you cite your reference at 7:14 i might want to read more of it. If you would be so kind.


  68. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Feb 14, 14 @ 8:40 am:

    - Mason born -,

    Use the. “Search” key, for “Democracy v. Republic”, I think it was the second search down.

    http://www.diffen.com/difference/Democracy_vs_Republic

    Thumbnail..


  69. - Mason born - Friday, Feb 14, 14 @ 8:48 am:

    Appreciate it Will


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        * Leesman endures short outing in first start
        * Ventura not basing decisions solely on pitch count
        * Gillaspie sits out with sore left hand
        * Relief corps showing signs of working into shape


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        * Rauner draws City Hall rebuke over robocalls ti.....
        * Jim Oberweis nixes the bipartisan immigration r.....
        * Internal Memo Says Illinois Medicaid Paid $12 M.....
        * Lawsuit seeks investigation of hiring under Quinn..
        * Hastert among GOP supporters of immigration reform..
        * Correction: Illinois Medicaid-Overpayments story..
        * Emanuel rips Rauner over pension stance..
        * Illinois GOP congressmen warm to immigration re.....


        * Lawsuit seeks investigation of hiring under Quinn
        * Lawsuit against Mississippi gun dealer settled
        * Hastert among GOP supporters of immigration reform
        * Ex-radical group member says university ending job
        * Spring corn planting still sputters in key states
        * Death penalty case shifts focus to slain Ill. kids
        * Illinois audit: Police training money misspent
        * Man convicted in 1957 Illinois death appeals
        * Acco to add 162-job call center in Booneville
        * Bruce Rauner details some views on immigration

        * Clock ticking for states to adopt health exchanges
        * Madigan re-elected to lead state Democratic party
        * Hastert, other state Republicans supporting immigration reform
        * Lawsuit seeks investigation of hiring under Quinn
        * GOP lawmaker objects to 9-0 vote for Obama library
        * DNR mining-oversight official fired
        * Democrats: Illinois schools could face major cuts
        * State prisons to use costly drug for hepatitis C
        * Illinois Medicaid paying for dead clients
        * Quinn grants 43 clemency requests

        * Emanuel rips Rauner over pension stance
        * Madigan re-elected to lead Illinois Democratic party
        * Ebony editor-in-chief steps down
        * Ebony magazine puts Jet editor in charge
        * Ebony taps Jet editor to take top slot


        * No public money for Obama library
        * Ex-head of suburban religious organization denies sex harassment
        * FBI informant on tape hugging man before shooting him: prosecutors
        * Make graffiti taggers pay for vandalizing CTA buses, trains
        * CPS puts $100 million price tag on mayor's A/C-in-schools edict
        * Robo-calls raise Rauner-Rahm rift
        * Republican leaders say state can’t afford $100 million for Obama library
        * Oberweis apologizes as GOP leaders urge action on immigration
        * Cops: Man kills wife outside NW Indiana school, then takes own life
        * Two teens shot in South Shore neighborhood


        * 1 dead, 3 injured after CTA bus, van collide in South Chicago
        * Pawnshop that sold gun used to kill cop agrees to report more on sales
        * CPS mulls privatizing 3 more schools
        * Maywood man charged in weekend hit-and-run death
        * 8 wounded in separate city-wide shootings
        * 6 injured when South Side police chase ends in crash
        * CTA's new weapon in graffiti battle: suits against vandals, parents
        * Man accused of assaulting woman at Woodstock motel
        * FBI informant on parole denied bail in fatal shooting caught on video surveillance
        * Firefighters rescue man from burning building in Roseland


        * Initial Obama Library Vote A "Misunderstanding"
        * The Vanishing Millionaire Tax
        * Legislator Protests Madigan As Party Chair, Won't Say Why
        * Tax Returns Revealing ... But Not Revealing Enough
        * Quinn Releases Tax Returns; Rauner's Waiting
        * Illinois Senate Joins Push For U.S. Constitutional Convention
        * Quinn Signs Law Intended To Lower Cost Of Auto Leasing
        * Mayors' group pushes for Illinois pension reform
        * Two don't-miss events this Wednesday
        * Illinois Medicaid Paying For The Dead


        * Our Opinion: Top Teen making Springfield a better place
        * Our Opinion: Computer lab a boost for the homeless
        * Lawsuit seeks investigation of hiring under Quinn
        * Madigan re-elected to lead state Democratic party
        * Madigan: 'Misunderstanding' on Obama library vote
        * Hastert, other state Republicans supporting immigration reform
        * Audit: Treasurer's office has 30 guns not given to police
        * State audit: Police training money misspent
        * Amazon takes hit in states with online tax, study says
        * Bankruptcy court trial sought over $3.8 million paid to Parsons


        * IDNR wrapping up controlled burns across state
        * Decorative bags for Earth Day greet Decatur Kroger shoppers
        * Jackson County hosts asparagus workshop
        * Williamson County Child Advocacy Center gets re-accreditation
        * John Adams Jr.
        * Anne Otey
        * John Oakley
        * Gipsey Hicks
        * Lavell 'LD' Starrick
        * Charles 'Blue' Perschbacher


        * The 10th District money race
        * Aurora Democrat calls out IHSA
        * Lawyers: Ill. hazing law vague, unconstitutional
        * Ill. House OKs lower-cost hunting bill for seniors
        * Quinn’s running mate takes new consulting job

        * Nuke advocate attacks Obama - Reno News & ...
        * Grant puts AEDs in Clark County - Paris Be...
        * Congressman's staff in Neoga today - Journ...
        * Congressman to visit Renewable Energy Cent...
        * Shimkus Honors 100th Anniversary of Heath ...
        * Congressman to visit with constituents in ...
        * IRS Tax Breaks Available for Disaster Vict...
        * Shimkus accepting Congressinal Art entries...
        * Congressman to host art show at Tarble - D...
        * Shimkus tours EIU Renewable Energy Center ...

        * Loading Koch Industries Website Too Many T......
        * Maryland and DC among worst for food aller......
        * Cleveland State University to reestablish ......
        * Convicted political boss Al Sanchez runnin......
        * Candidates make last filings for local, st......

        * Illinois Lt. Gov. Simon opposes pension le......
        * Dillard Odd Man Out on Pension Deal Reaction...
        * Sen. Mark Kirk sides with Rauner on pensio......
        * Governor's race infighting threatens pensi......
        * SCHOONERS - Home of Everyone's Favorite Be......

        * Obama Administration Tightens Grip On Intelligence
        * Catching gangbangers on bikes?
        * You’d think it was still 20th Century by composition of immigration forum
        * CPS: Emanuel's Air Conditioning Mandate To Cost $100 Million
        * 6th Ward Alderman on CAN-TV's Political Forum
        * Reading the Tea Party Leaves
        * The Brick Stackers
        * Recipe for success
        * Court Critical Of Ohio Law Punishing Campaign Lies
        * Michigan Affirmative Ban Is OK, Supreme Court Says


        * Governor Quinn Promotes Welcome Home Illinois Program at Annual Affordable Housing Conference - Addresses Industry Leaders on State’s Improving Housing Market and New Program for First-Time Homebuyers
        * IEMA Encourages Participation in ‘America’s PrepareAthon!’ on April 30 - First National Day of Action Expected to Draw Millions of Participants
        * Redeploy Illinois Program Diverts Thousands of Youth From Prison System, Saves State $60 Million - New analysis of prison diversion initiative shows 54 percent reduction in juvenile incarceration
        * Illinois EPA Recognized for 40 Year of Graduate Public Service Internship Partnership with University of Illinois at Springfield - Agency Internship Programs Help Students Gain Real-World Knowledge of Environmental Protection and Regulations
        * Governor Quinn Proclaims Tuesday, April 22, Earth Day in Illinois - Urges People Across the State to Go Green and Continue Environmental Consciousness




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