SUBSCRIBE to Capitol Fax      Advertise Here      Mobile Version     Exclusive Subscriber Content     Updated Posts    Contact
CapitolFax.com
To subscribe to Capitol Fax, click here.
S&P states the obvious

Thursday, Feb 27, 2014

* Standard & Poor’s Ratings Services is releasing a report today which will hopefully stifle the goofballs who continue to compare Chicago to Detroit

“We believe Chicago can largely control its own fate, whereas Detroit cannot, nor will it be able to for some time. In our view, this may be the key difference between the two cities and may be what will allow Chicago to work through its problems rather than follow Detroit’s path on the road to bankruptcy,” concluded the report, titled “Will Chicago Suffer Detroit’s Fate?” […]

“We saw … a comparison people were making (but) our criteria made it look starkly different,” Ridley said. “People wanted to draw comparisons, where we didn’t necessarily think there were comparisons that made sense from a credit standpoint.”

The report notes that Chicago has a much higher median per-capita income, higher housing values, a lower unemployment rate and a much slower rate of population decrease over the past six decades. It also points to the 22-year tenure of former Mayor Richard M. Daley and the city’s long-range financial plans, which it lists as signs of stronger management than the Motor City, where the entrance to the mayor’s office has been something of a revolving door in recent years.

Chicago also set more money aside for financial rainy days, has more cash on hand and has a far greater ability to meet its debt obligations despite a reluctance to increase taxes.

* More

S&P added that it believes “the magnitude of Chicago’s budgetary issues does not put it in the same league as Detroit.”

* Maybe Eden Martin, who favors allowing Chicago to declare bankruptcy, will read the report today. Then again, maybe he’ll just echo this guy

Civic Federation President Laurence Msall said the report is another reminder that state lawmakers need to pass pension changes for Chicago. “We should take little solace that we are not the largest bankrupt city in America,” Msall said.

- Posted by Rich Miller        


34 Comments
  1. - train111 - Thursday, Feb 27, 14 @ 9:48 am:

    but…but… but

    Drudge says ………

    Fun to see a right wing nut-job talking point thouroughly blasted out of the water.


  2. - Norseman - Thursday, Feb 27, 14 @ 9:49 am:

    From Martin’s and Masall’s perspective, facts should not interfere with the narrative they want to portray.


  3. - A guy... - Thursday, Feb 27, 14 @ 9:50 am:

    I guess according to S&P they miss the days of the long-tenured leadership era of Coleman Young. Not. When Chicago and Detroit had similar options in the late 60s, Chicago made good decisions, Detroit made horribly bad ones. Residents stayed, sports teams stayed, corporations moved in instead of out, and the city maintained its transportation and industrial advantages. Lotta luck. Lotta skill. Lotta stubborn Chicago pride. Using the same formula, we can lick the issues in front of us now. It appears S&P and Msall agree on that.


  4. - wordslinger - Thursday, Feb 27, 14 @ 9:57 am:

    The “Detroit” drumbeat will continue. It’s an easy hook, regardless of whether it has any basis in reality.

    I’m curious that S&P felt the need to chime in with a special report. I wonder where that came from?


  5. - Walker - Thursday, Feb 27, 14 @ 10:06 am:

    The chattering investment class warriors must have been upsetting the self-proclaimed defenders of marketplace reality.

    When are the smarter members of their own organizations going to call out Msall and Eden Martin for their partisan buffoonery?

    Their organizations exist to help grow a healthy Chicago and Illinois, not to unfairly badmouth us all for political purposes.


  6. - Pensioner - Thursday, Feb 27, 14 @ 10:08 am:

    Considering what SP did or failed to do during the housing bubble with credit default securities, no one should really care what they do or say. Totally not credible.


  7. - From the 'Dale to HP - Thursday, Feb 27, 14 @ 10:08 am:

    Hits keep on coming for the Tribune Editorial Board too. They’re one of the biggest and loudest supporters of this hyperbole.


  8. - Grandson of Man - Thursday, Feb 27, 14 @ 10:09 am:

    “Using the same formula, we can lick the issues in front of us now.”

    I feel this optimism also, although we have tough sledding ahead, with the city pensions and the choices that will be made. I hope but am not holding my breath that some of the union ideas will be implemented in pension reform. I do agree with Mayor Emanuel, that property owners should not have to shoulder too large of a burden. I would like some sort of compromise.

    I read this morning that Detroit pensioners plan a large protest this weekend. One pensioner in the story reportedly nets $1,500 per month, and this will be cut by 34%. Ouch!

    http://www.freep.com/article/20140224/NEWS01/302240125


  9. - A guy... - Thursday, Feb 27, 14 @ 10:20 am:

    Grandson, I share your optimism. Until everyone feels a similar stake in the game, they don’t always sit at the table and get dealt in. I think everyone knows now that it’s time to get very serious about the various constituencies they all represent. It’s a more high profile issue now and the general public is paying enough attention to provide motivation and restraint when necessary. If any side is too greedy, they’ll get called on it. If anyone is uncooperative, they’ll be poked. I believe our state and city will find a solution. There’s more riding on it now and an angry electorate might make the biggest difference. There might be lower turnout, true, but those who do come are armed this time.


  10. - anon - Thursday, Feb 27, 14 @ 10:21 am:

    The facts haven’t persuaded our conservative friends that climate change is real. So why would they pay attention now to the clear differences between Chitown and Motown?

    Walker makes a good point about Msall and Martin who chronically warn the sky is falling, instead of seeking constructive ways to address problems to improve the City.


  11. - Fan - Thursday, Feb 27, 14 @ 10:24 am:

    Ah yes, this goofballs and nutjobs just need a little more fairy dusting is all.


  12. - TheDopeFromHope - Thursday, Feb 27, 14 @ 10:27 am:

    That Chicago is not Detroit is true. That Chicago is on the same road Detroit was years ago is also true.

    Coleman Young’s plan was to “persuade” the successful to leave Detroit because most of them were not his supporters. Is that the Dems’ plan for Chicago and Illinois as well?


  13. - Commander Norton - Thursday, Feb 27, 14 @ 10:36 am:

    I see what they mean, saying that decades of Daleys brought more stability to Chicago than Detroit enjoyed with its many troubled mayors. But does anyone else find it disturbing that a private company is opining rather authoritatively that long-term machine governance beats a more active and democratic polity where there’s a good chance an incumbent will be ousted?


  14. - RonOglesby - Thursday, Feb 27, 14 @ 10:44 am:

    The key here is to realize two things, not just one of them:

    1- Chicago is not Detroit and not even close
    2- But if Chicago doesn’t deal with the issues facing it “control its own fate” it can become Detroit like.

    one side likes to argue its the road to detroit no matter what. The other side argues that it isn’t even possible…

    The reality is that it IS possible, though not a forgone conclusion, Chicago can correct itself. But if it doesnt. if it keeps kicking the can down the road it may lose the ability to “control its own fate”. And right now there sure doesnt seem to be a lot of changes happening in chicago to increase growth and population and revenue.


  15. - Louis G. Atsaves - Thursday, Feb 27, 14 @ 11:02 am:

    If Chicago can largely control its own financial fate and has adequate management in place, then how did it get itself into the financial mess it is currently in? The circular logic here escapes me.

    Is Chicago the next Detroit? No. But let’s not do cartwheels over the S & P analysis.


  16. - wordslinger - Thursday, Feb 27, 14 @ 11:05 am:

    –If Chicago can largely control its own financial fate and has adequate management in place, then how did it get itself into the financial mess it is currently in?–

    Lack of political will and courage.


  17. - VanillaMan - Thursday, Feb 27, 14 @ 11:07 am:

    Anyone thinking that S&P’s report somehow puts an end to concerns over Chicago’s future as it continues its decline over the past decade is delusional.

    There have been major changes within Chicago over the past decade which do not point it into a direction found in World Cities, but instead are more representative of Regional Cities.

    1.) Major Chicago banking no longer owned by Chicagoans.
    2.) Major Chicago real estate no longer owned by Chicagoans.
    3.) Major tax-producing organizations which dominated the top ten payrolls in Chicago have been replaced by major tax-consuming organizations. For profit has been replaced by not for profit as Chicago’s biggest employers.
    4.) Over a million citizens have moved out of Chicago. In the US, only Detroit has experienced losing a million citizens. Around the world, only London has experienced losing a million.

    S&P does not have a good record of producing reports that can be considered definitive on these issues.

    I use the Federal Reserve Bank’s overview of Chicago’s situation over what S&P says.


  18. - VanillaMan - Thursday, Feb 27, 14 @ 11:14 am:

    Chicago’s problems cannot be solved by politics or government. If it could - it would have.

    The problems are the result of Globalization, a lack of start-ups to replace dying industries, and a lack of interest by Chicagoans and the City’s supporters to realize they cannot live off its rich 20th Century heritage.


  19. - ejhickey - Thursday, Feb 27, 14 @ 11:15 am:

    “The report notes that Chicago has a much higher median ”

    In 1960, Detroit had the highest per-capita income in the U.S., higher than Chicago. in 1960 the idea that Detroit could declare bankruptcy was unthinkable.


  20. - Bill White - Thursday, Feb 27, 14 @ 11:19 am:

    21st century manufacturing initiatives are part of the solution for Chicago. And as I recall there was a recent announcement about that:

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2014/02/25/manufacturing-innovation-institutes-putting-america-forefront-21st-century-manufactu


  21. - In the Middle - Thursday, Feb 27, 14 @ 11:40 am:

    Pensioner @10:48

    Not credible? They used a traditional model to arrive at the AAA status on those subprime securities. It proved wrong. This doesn’t mean S&P should forever be dismissed as worthless.


  22. - wordslinger - Thursday, Feb 27, 14 @ 11:56 am:

    –They used a traditional model to arrive at the AAA status on those subprime securities. It proved wrong.–

    C’mon, read the subpoenaed emails from S&P raters and the pressure their superiors were putting on them to give high ratings to land business. A sample:

    –* In one email, an S&P analytical staffer emailed another that a mortgage or structured-finance deal was “ridiculous” and that “we should not be rating it.” The other S&P staffer replied that “we rate every deal,” adding that “it could be structured by cows and we would rate it.”–

    http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB124890898142691729?mod=sphere_ts&mod=sphere_wd&mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB124890898142691729.html%3Fmod%3Dsphere_ts%26mod%3Dsphere_wd


  23. - Pensioner - Thursday, Feb 27, 14 @ 12:16 pm:

    In the Middle at 1140am… “They used a traditional model to arrive at the AAA status on those subprime securities.” What have you been smoking? They used the model that generated the most income, greed. A moron could see those securities were worthless.


  24. - lake county democrat - Thursday, Feb 27, 14 @ 1:22 pm:

    Like I said yesterday, it’s all about the middle class. Detroit’s middle class is entirely in the suburbs (as are many of the businesses, though some are starting to move back downtown). The report is explicit: “Chicago has a much higher median per-capita income, higher housing values, a lower unemployment rate and a much slower rate of population decrease over the past six decades…” The only thing that can turn Chicago into Detroit is middle class flight, and the surest way to start that is to redistribute school and police resources (that’s not to say you shouldn’t *increase* those resources in the areas they are needed, but that presumes a political courage which is nowhere in sight).


  25. - Plutocrat03 - Thursday, Feb 27, 14 @ 1:31 pm:

    The observation that Chicago is in charge of it’s own fate, does not address if the city leadership has the will or skill to make the fiscally responsible decisions needed to start improving it’s future prospects.

    Aren’t some of the commentator’s applauding the S&P remarks the same who blasted negative forecast by Moody’s by trashing the bond rating industry? You can’t cherry pick only the opinions you like.


  26. - wordslinger - Thursday, Feb 27, 14 @ 1:35 pm:

    –Aren’t some of the commentator’s applauding the S&P remarks the same who blasted negative forecast by Moody’s by trashing the bond rating industry–

    I don’t think S&P got $750K to write this analysis like it did to rate subprime mbs issues. Still, I’ve been making the same points on the Chicago/Detroit comparisons for some time. It ain’t news to me.


  27. - Anon - Thursday, Feb 27, 14 @ 2:06 pm:

    Chicago is clearly not Detroit.

    But does Chicago have the potential to become Detroit? That’s what I am more interested in.

    Detroit was not always Detroit, you know.


  28. - Anonymous - Thursday, Feb 27, 14 @ 2:08 pm:

    Chicago got into this mess largely due to the law of unintended consequences. The original Mayor Daley got the 2.5 multiple for property tax assessment classification written into the 1970 constitution in order (all other counties must assess on a non-discriminatory basis) to keep taxes down for cook county residents, i.e., voters. Now, 44 years later, the City of Chicago has the lowest tax rate of any municipality in Cook County. So why can’t Chicago fix its pension problem? The answer is, that it can - except for the calamitous political consequences of the increased property tax burden on voters, and the potentially more calamitous consequences of the attendant tax increase on business and industry. Hence, Cook County has started to moderate the assessment differential, but it’ll be a loooong time before anyone will have the courage to tap Chicago’s property tax base to fix that problem. I wonder how many of our “graduated” income tax advocates are equally interested in removing the property tax subsidy for residential property owners in Cook County and bearing the full cost of Chicago’s true pension costs?

    But back to the thrust of the OP - there is no comparison whatsoever between Chicago and Detroit.
    Just cheap debating points.


  29. - Rich Miller - Thursday, Feb 27, 14 @ 2:56 pm:

    ===Detroit was not always Detroit, you know. ===

    It has been a shell of its former self for at least 30 and maybe 40 years. C’mon.


  30. - Buzzie - Thursday, Feb 27, 14 @ 3:37 pm:

    John Tillman, John Tillman where are your comments?


  31. - Yellow Dog Democrat - Thursday, Feb 27, 14 @ 5:44 pm:

    Other S&P news you might have missed:

    Seattle not as liberal as Portland.

    Austin not as weird as New Orleans.


  32. - In the Middle - Thursday, Feb 27, 14 @ 5:44 pm:

    Pensioner @12:16 has nothing but ad hominem attacks. Love it. Read up, my friend.


  33. - Pensioner - Thursday, Feb 27, 14 @ 8:48 pm:

    @In the Middle - Thursday, Feb 27, 14 @ 5:44 pm:

    Didnt say a thing about Middle. Based on your analysis I suggest YOU do the reading. Good day.


  34. - Pensioner - Thursday, Feb 27, 14 @ 8:55 pm:

    …unless of you course it was you doing the rating. One has to admit a systemic flaw when the rater is paid by the ratee. If the resulting rate is not sufficient, the ratee moves to a different agency. Subsequent analysis has shown the CDOs insufficiently capitalized to be worth a AAA rating. Based on your comment your skin is a bit thin, unless,as I said, you did the rating.


Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.


* *** UPDATED x2 - Cullerton responds *** Rauner won't schedule leaders meeting until Dems "are ready"
* Mendoza bumps manager bonuses to back of the line
* Caption contest!
* CPS prospectus includes mention of "hypothetical bankruptcy"
* Fun with numbers
* Question of the day: Golden Horseshoe Awards
* CMS blames AFSCME for halt to bonuses
* Good news and not so great news in Site Selection report
* Chris Kennedy added to "Boss Madigan" list
* *** UPDATED x1 *** Are we really going to have to wait until 2018?
* Rauner's dark money prince could wind up running the RNC
* Madigan on the attack, offers to discuss modified version of "Turnaround Agenda"
* IMA says Rauner signature on Exelon bill weakens manufacturing
* It's more than just a website and e-mails
* Kennedy may file candidate papers "in short order," while Bustos moves up DC ladder
* Del Mar gets his plum
* Emanuel meeting with Trump this morning
* So now they tell us
* *** UPDATED x1 - Cullerton optimistic but firm *** Rauner slams Madigan for refusing to put forward a budget, wanting a tax hike, stalling to force a crisis
* Yesterday's blog posts

Support CapitolFax.com
Visit our advertisers...

...............

...............

...............

...............

...............
<


Search This Blog...

Search the 98th General Assembly By Bill Number
(example: HB0001)

Search the 98th General Assembly By Keyword

  
* T-Mobile announces Digits, a phone number for all of your devices
* Playable Demos of 'Super Mario Run' in Apple Stores From Today
* Glass class of 2017: all-glass LG G6 rumored, headphone jack stays in
* ARM64-x86 emulation shown off for Snapdragon-powered full Windows 10 phones
* ‘Super Mario Run’ and the shape of Nintendo to come — an interview with Reggie Fils-Aimé
* Galaxy Beta Program shows off TouchWiz’s new name: Samsung Experience
* Android app updates are getting 65 percent smaller

* Moncada welcomes expectations awaiting White Sox
* In span of day, White Sox system skyrockets
* Kopech next in long line of Texas fireballers
* White Sox land Giolito, 2 more prospects for Eaton
* In rebuild mode, Hahn has 5 assets to deal
* White Sox GM Rick Hahn is the prospect collector
* Best prospects traded in past 25 years

...............


Main Menu
Home
Illinois
YouTube
Pundit rankings
Obama
Subscriber Content
Durbin
Burris
Blagojevich Trial
Advertising
Updated Posts
Polls

Archives
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004

Blog*Spot Archives
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005

Syndication

RSS Feed 2.0
Comments RSS 2.0
WordPress

Loading


* Rauner asks Democrats for budget proposal, dela.....
* Morning Spin: Rauner fights with union over $10.....
* The Latest: 'Clean jobs' group applauds Rauner .....
* Illinois Gov. Bruce Rauner signs bill sparing 2.....
* Rauner Asks Democrats for Budget Proposal, Dela.....


* EXCHANGE: Retired Mendota detective now helps kids
* Energy Department grants to fund Illinois CO2 projects
* Suburban tobacco store manager sentenced in tax case
* Group offers reward to fight dog fighting in DuPage County
* Illinois firearm deer harvest down 8.5 percent this year
* Chicago officer convicted of perjury, 2 officers acquitted
* Doctor: candy that sickened students contained marijuana
* Purported Chicago gang leader to jurors: Gang never existed
* Illinois Gov. Rauner signs bill sparing 2 nuclear plants
* Rauner asks Democrats for budget proposal, delays meeting

* Springfield-area veterans join pipeline protest
* Rauner asks Democrats for budget proposal, cancels meeting
* Comptroller: State employee bonuses on hold during impasse
* Rauner signs Exelon subsidy to spare 2 nuclear plants
* Rauner to sign Exelon subsidy to spare 2 nuclear plants
* Judge blocks administration from imposing contract on AFSCME
* State budget still elusive as leaders lash out
* Illinois budget still elusive as leaders lash out
* Killer of former central Illinois man sentenced to probation
* Prosecutors: Don't move Aaron Schock trial out of Springfield

* So you want to be a 40 Under 40
* Twins in Chicago's tech sector—separately
* Lothian hands CEO title to newsletter editor
* Chicago is getting another newsroom
* Another newsroom is coming to town


* Cops: Shot fired at police in University Village
* Man grazed in Lawndale shooting
* Attempted bank robbery reported in Chicago Heights
* Georgia Nicols horoscopes for Dec. 8, 2016
* Dear Abby: ‘Orphan’ at 55 feels like he’s hit bottom
* 7 people shot Wednesday on South, West sides
* 13-year-old girl disappears from Uptown
* Trump chooses hardliners but talks softer on immigration
* Aroldis Chapman signs five-year deal to return to Yankees
* MGM National Harbor ready for its Maryland debut


* 8 wounded in shootings on West, South sides
* 13-year-old missing from North Side medical facility
* Report: Aroldis Chapman, Yankees reach deal for $86M, 5 years
* Hoax beliefs fueled death threats to Sandy Hook parent, Florida woman charged: Feds
* Campus officer shot teen armed with knife at Nevada high school
* New York restaurant threatened by Pizzagate hoax callers
* Don't dismiss Vic Fangio leaving Bears just yet
* Trump retaliated against Carrier's union leader on Twitter. Then his phone started to ring.
* Ohio legislators approve what would be the country's toughest restriction on abortion
* Crowd braves cold to remember slain Dolton rapper


The widget AQL4JYGHIY powered by Feed Informer does not exist.


* Bernard Schoenburg: Bustos gets leadership post, criticizes Rauner
* Our View: Lawmakers should withdraw their lawsuit over paychecks
* George Will: The sensitivity police strike again
* Eugene Robinson: The proliferation of fake news presents real perils
* Guest Column: The Trump Administration faces extremism/terrorism
* Springfield-area veterans join pipeline protest
* Rauner asks Democrats for budget proposal, cancels meeting
* Comptroller: State employee bonuses on hold during impasse
* Rauner signs Exelon subsidy to spare 2 nuclear plants
* Rauner to sign Exelon subsidy to spare 2 nuclear plants


* Amanda's picks: 5 things to do this weekend
* Inaugral Christmas stroll planned in Harrison-Bruce Historical Village
* Ronald Taskoski
* Wendell Davis
* Mary Foehner
* Paul Youngblood
* Margaret Osman
* Maryann Mercer
* Steven Kelley
* Shirley Jones


* Dawn Patrol: Kane County chairman accuses state's attorney of buying loyalty
* Capitals lose 3-goal lead, recover to beat Bruins in OT
* Review: 'Hairspray Live!' pushes the boundaries and wins big
* Plum's 30 leads No. 11 Washington women to 101-44 win
* Extra effort in Wauconda's win

* House lawmakers overcome hurdle on key tra...
* Rodney Davis talks funding with Bloomingto...
* The agency that fought Illiana gets a new ...
* Rep. Dold takes educational cruise down Ch...
* Lawmakers decry high turnover rate of VA h...
* CBD Oil, and politics
* Simon considering state Senate bid
* Killer Congressman Tom MacArthur trying to...
* Shutdown? State may not notice
* Rep. Bob Dold

* Durbin's debit debacle - Washington Examin......

* Sen. Mark Kirk Praised During Senate Floor......

* Girl, 13, Missing From Uptown Hospital
* How times change; Rahm now our ally in upcoming political fight w/ Trump
* Santa Sleighed
* Roller Skate With Santa At Margate Park
* Illinois Bible Colleges Head to Court of Appeals
* Thorner: Grassroots pushback essential for Trump to appoint pro-life nominee
* IL GOP jabs possible Dem gubernatorial nominee, three more lawmakers
* Trump taps Iowa Governor Branstad for Ambassador to China
* Chicago YPN raises more than $400 for Salvation Army
* Governor Announces Appointments to Illinois Bicentennial Commission


* Governor’s Export Awards Recipients Announced
* Governor Signs Legislation to Protect Jobs, Ratepayers and Taxpayers
* Give The Gift Of A Lifetime With A College Illinois!® 529 Prepaid Tuition Plan - College Illinois! can help limit or even eliminate future student loan debt
* Illinois Department of Veterans’ Affairs Hosts 75th Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day Ceremony
* IDHR Issues Reminder of Fair Housing Rights During Holiday Season - State law prohibits targeted, discriminatory restrictions on decorations and celebrations




      Hosted by MCS SUBSCRIBE to Capitol Fax Advertise Here Mobile Version Contact Rich Miller