40 Comments - wordslinger - Tuesday, Apr 1, 14 @ 9:40 am: That’s a few hundred bucks down the drain in a hurry. You got an Illinois conceal-carry permit, not a 007 license. Geez, dude, you’re 52-years-old; haven’t you figured out any conflict-resolution skills in all that time? Here’s hoping this hothead doesn’t get his permit back. - thechampaignlife - Tuesday, Apr 1, 14 @ 9:41 am: Off topic but I see the remapping amendment has just reported 346K signatures in hand. - 47th Ward - Tuesday, Apr 1, 14 @ 9:43 am: That was quick. Was the ink on his permit even dry yet? - bored now - Tuesday, Apr 1, 14 @ 9:46 am: word, lots of people think that if they had a gun, they’d be able to get their way. i’m pretty sure that’s ingrained in americans after a decade of westerns… - Todd - Tuesday, Apr 1, 14 @ 9:46 am: If it was his own building the permit issue may be irrelevent, but the story does not put him in a good light. If he is that reckless, he should loose it. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Apr 1, 14 @ 9:48 am: Welp, if someone wanted to see how the law works, congratulations, there may be a 1st casualty. How embarrassing for this guy, and how ignorant can this guy be? There was a reason Barney Fife only had one round for his side arm… - Read Between The Lines - Tuesday, Apr 1, 14 @ 9:48 am: The moral of the story is to own and not rent. This avoids the situation all together! - Walker - Tuesday, Apr 1, 14 @ 9:51 am: Now the guy collecting the rent will get a CC and start carrying for his own protection against those who refuse to pay. And so it goes. - PoolGuy - Tuesday, Apr 1, 14 @ 9:52 am: I wish this was an April Fool’s joke Rich. it’s fitting - elginkevin - Tuesday, Apr 1, 14 @ 9:54 am: Good, the law is working as designed. - William j Kelly - Tuesday, Apr 1, 14 @ 9:56 am: I bet O’Connell didn’t want to end up being a statistic and he ended up being one anyway! Strange how the universe works like that! - Arizona Bob - Tuesday, Apr 1, 14 @ 10:01 am: =Now the guy collecting the rent will get a CC and start carrying for his own protection against those who refuse to pay.= Actually, that’s been the case in some neighborhoods for quite some time. The difference is that these “rent collectors” usually carried shotguns instead of 22s. More intimidating to recalcitrant deadbeat tenants adn would be robbers. - A. Nonymous - Tuesday, Apr 1, 14 @ 10:03 am: @elginkevin - I hope that post was just a sick joke. This is clearly not a case of CCW working as intended. Quite the opposite in fact of what was promised by the law’s sponsors, the gun lobbyists and the like. The first use of CCW and it’s actually a guy who (allegedly) COMMITS a crime. – @Walker - Maybe I missed it but none of the news reports I’ve seen indicate if O’Connell was the landlord, the renter or something else. For all we know he could’ve been a landlord fed up with a late tenant. He did hide his weapon in a nearby vacant apt. after all. In any case, he clearly sought to reinterpret the CCW law in his own manner, and got pinched for it. We have yet to hear of anyone using CCW for its stated intent (self-protection) but the gun shops and gun makers sure are making a mint if CCW-driven demand for services and guns is any indication. Always all about the Benjamins. - John A Logan - Tuesday, Apr 1, 14 @ 10:04 am: Meh. - Hit or Miss - Tuesday, Apr 1, 14 @ 10:12 am: With concealed carry implemented more people will be out and about with guns (that’s why they pay for a CC permit). That the number of incidents like this one will increase is not a surprise to me. - Mason born - Tuesday, Apr 1, 14 @ 10:37 am: Anyone know if O’Connel was renter or landlord? If Renter the CCW does not directly factor in. Either way if incident is legit then he needs to go. - Jake From Elwood - Tuesday, Apr 1, 14 @ 11:10 am: He had this license and it was effin’ golden… - Anon - Tuesday, Apr 1, 14 @ 11:16 am: Though I don’t carry concealed, one incident doesn’t prove concealed carry is dangerous. - Louis Howe - Tuesday, Apr 1, 14 @ 11:43 am: The NYTs has a good article today about S.C. restaurateurs and consumers packing heat. Here’s what one owner posted; “If you are such a loser that you feel a need to carry a gun with you when you go out. I don’t want your business.” In S.C. packing heat in taverns is Ok, as long as you don’t drink. Another brilliant legislative solution that Illinois lawmakers may soon adopt. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/01/us/chefs-find-political-waters-anything-but-tepid.html?ref=politics - A. Nonymous - Tuesday, Apr 1, 14 @ 11:57 am: @Anon - “Though I don’t carry concealed, one incident doesn’t prove concealed carry is dangerous.” Read the news from the other 49 states. It’s more like tens of thousands of incidents per year - including 30,000+ gun deaths per year. The US leads the industrialized world, by far, in gun deaths. And yet we rarely - very rarely - hear reports of CCW holders “protecting” themselves or others even though that is the stated intent behind CCW laws. The gun lobbyists don’t like it when these related facts are mentioned. - downstater - Tuesday, Apr 1, 14 @ 12:03 pm: This will prove out to be an anomally. The majority of the time CCW holders will go about their business and no one will know that they are carrying a gun. CCW holders are not the criminals and are generally the law abiding citizens in good standing. As a whole they commit a lesser percentage of crimes than they represent as a percentage of the population. The media will shine a light on these occurances every chance they get but it will not be the norm. - RetiredArmyMP - Tuesday, Apr 1, 14 @ 12:18 pm: -It’s more like tens of thousands of incidents per year - including 30,000+ gun deaths per year.- Fact: 54% of these deaths are suicides (National Center for Health Statistics, average rates for years 1981 through 2003. ) (80% in Canada - Death Involving Firearms, Kathryn Wilkins, Health Report vol. 16, no 4, Statistics Canada). Numerous studies have shown that the presence or absence of a firearm does not change the overall (i.e., gun plus non-gun) suicide rate. -And yet we rarely - very rarely - hear reports of CCW holders “protecting” themselves or others even though that is the stated intent behind CCW laws.- News reports tell many stories of armed civilians preventing mass murder in public. A few selected at random include: A citizen with a gun stopped a knife-wielding man as he began stabbing people in a Salt Lake City store. Two men retrieved firearms from their cars and stopped a mass murder at the Appalachian School of Law. Citizen takes out shooter while police were pinned down in Early, Texas. Citizen stops apartment shoot-up in Oklahoma City. In 80% of gun defenses, the defender used a concealable handgun. A quarter of the gun defenses occurred in places away from the defender’s home. (Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun, by Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz, in The Journal of Criminal Law & Criminology, Northwestern University School of Law, Volume 86, Number 1, Fall, 1995) 77% of all violent crime occurs in public places. (Criminal Victimization in the United States, U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics, 1993) This makes concealed carry necessary for almost all self-defense needs. But due to onerous laws forbidding concealed carry, only 26.8% of defensive gun uses occurred away from home. (Kleck and Gertz, National Self Defense Survey, 1995) - Anon Bus. Owner - Tuesday, Apr 1, 14 @ 12:21 pm: While I’m sure many CCW permit holders wouldn’t dream of solving a dispute by waiving a gun, apparently this is one example of someone who (allegedly) did. In IL we’ve gone from allowing someone to carry a loaded firearm outside their home — into someone else’s private property, unless the property owner (non-residential) puts up a sign of a gun with a red line through it. Is that a bit much? What about private property rights? Most business owners I’ve asked are uncomfortable with people carrying in their establishments. They don’t tell me that they want people to carry to potentially protect other customers from potential criminal activity. But in many cases they are hesitant in putting up the No Guns sign. Some who have say they are receiving backlash. That’s why many are asking for the CCW signage reversal. - G'Kar - Tuesday, Apr 1, 14 @ 12:53 pm: ==Two men retrieved firearms from their cars and stopped a mass murder at the Appalachian School of Law.== In this incident in 2002, both the men involved were off duty law enforcement officers. There is also conflicting reports of what actually happened. Several witness claim a third, unarmed student (and ex Marine) is the one who subdued the shooter before the two off duty officers arrived back on the scene. - Todd - Tuesday, Apr 1, 14 @ 12:56 pm: Anon.Bus — the signage reversal is not going to happen. every other state does it the same way, don’t want guns, post. There seems to be a question of ownership on the building in question. If the person charged, owned the property in question no carry permit is even needed. all of the other states have not seen fit to repeal their laws. I think it will work out over time. - Mason born - Tuesday, Apr 1, 14 @ 1:00 pm: Todd “If the person charged, owned the property in question no carry permit is even needed. ” Just to add if this happened in the renters apartment then the renter would not have needed a permit to carry a weapon around his domicile. - Todd - Tuesday, Apr 1, 14 @ 1:10 pm: Mason I agree - Demoralized - Tuesday, Apr 1, 14 @ 1:24 pm: ==If the person charged, owned the property in question no carry permit is even needed.== That is irrelevant to me. The guy pointed a gun at somebody and threatened to shoot him. Permits don’t enter my mind at that point. - RetiredArmyMP - Tuesday, Apr 1, 14 @ 1:27 pm: -In this incident in 2002, both the men involved were off duty law enforcement officers- Yes, and the point is that even off duty law enforcement were not allowed to carry concealed - if they were, they would not have had to run to their cars to retrieve their guns. They and porbably other concealed carry permit holders would have been prepared to intervene immediately. - Louis Howe - Tuesday, Apr 1, 14 @ 1:43 pm: @RetiredArmyMP….I fail to see your logic about gun suicides. Every suicide study indicates that using a gun results in more fatal suicides. Perhaps the number of attempted suicides are the same whether you own a gun or not, but using a gun results in between 85% to 99% “success rates” compared to less than 10% for most other methods. For instance, drug overdoses, which are the most favored method, result in a 2% “success rate.” Less than 10% of all attempted suicides are fatal. For those depressed and trying to commit suicide NOT owning a gun to do it greatly increases their chance of their survival. Of course, if gun nuts were rational they wouldn’t own a gun to begin with. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Apr 1, 14 @ 2:16 pm: @Anon Bus. Owner Restrict rights in your business, and lose business. Simple as that. In every state the signage requirement is to post that firearms are not allowed, not the other way around. What’s so different about IL.? - A. Nonymous - Tuesday, Apr 1, 14 @ 5:40 pm: @RetiredArmyMP “Yes, and the point is that even off duty law enforcement were not allowed to carry concealed” Police officers (active or retired) were already allowed to carry concealed handguns in Illinois before the new CCW law. In fact, in the weeks just before the first licenses were mailed out there were multiple reports of retired cops accidentally dropping their loaded guns inside of schools while visiting kids, with some of the weapons firing inside the schools. That said…. You mentioned 4 cases of defense, some of which others pointed out were questionable to begin with. – Perspective – You cited a study from 1995 and another that looked all the way back to 1981. I mentioned 30,000+ gun-related deaths PER YEAR. (Cite: Centers for Disease Control) That rate translates to roughly 540,000 gun deaths since 1995… Nearly 1,000,000 gun deaths since 1981 at that rate… Where are your 1,000,000 gun-related “protection” stories since 1981? You cited percentages of guns used to deter a few crimes. How many actual crimes were deterred, in real numbers? You mentioned 4 (without citation). 999,996 to go. – Perspective #2 – The statistic of 30,000+ per year is just those who’ve died from the use of guns (intentional or not). There are exponentially more incidents of injuries per year and another order of magnitude more incidents of needless gun-wielding assaults such as was the case (mentioned above) with the FIRST use of a gun by an Illinoisan with a brand-spankin’ new CCW license holder. Most logical people would look at 1,000,000 deaths vs 4 possible crimes that were deterred and ask themselves what the heck are we as a nation thinking?? - A. Nonymous - Tuesday, Apr 1, 14 @ 5:46 pm: @ Anonymous 2:16 “Restrict rights in your business, and lose business. Simple as that.” You have the right to own a gun (as part of well-regulated militia, but apparently conservatives have convinced themselves we can ignore that). You have a privilege granted under Illinois’ CCW law of carrying that gun, hidden, in public. This is the same as having the right to interstate commerce ad the privilege of applying for a drivers license to drive a car and conduct interstate commerce. The flip side to your weak threat, of course, is that sensible business owners may see MORE business from those of us seeking to frequent establishments which do post the no guns signs. I’d be happy to know fervent zealots with loaded guns would stay far away from such businesses! - Louis Howe - Tuesday, Apr 1, 14 @ 6:46 pm: @A.nonymus…All very good points. Well said!!! - Mr. Wonderful - Wednesday, Apr 2, 14 @ 6:07 am: Precisely why we need rent control,not gun control. - Hit or Miss - Wednesday, Apr 2, 14 @ 6:53 am: Related story appeared in the Chicago Tribune titled “327 denied concealed carry licenses because of poor training” http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/suburbs/bolingbrook/chi-327-denied-concealed-carry-licenses-because-of-poor-training-20140401,0,2695924.story - A. Nonymous - Wednesday, Apr 2, 14 @ 7:27 am: @ Hit or Miss - if they’ve been ‘denied’ a CCW license due to poor training, does it mean….. - the law is working because these bad instructors were caught (then again, how many other faulty instruction courses are not being caught???) - their instructors were denying them their CCW privilege? - their brains were denying them their CCW privilege? LOL. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Apr 2, 14 @ 4:14 pm: @A. Nonymous We have a right to own a firearm without any connection to a militia whatsoever. I suggest you read Heller v. DC because you are obviously lacking in knowledge regarding what the 2nd Amendment is and isn’t. Do you have a right to smoke ciggarettes? No, you have a priviledge. Yet all signs (and laws regarding signage) regarding smoking are to post where smoking isn’t allowed, not where it is. You still fail to address why IL should do opposite what the other 49 states have done. Are we so different? Why? And why do you skirt these questions? - Aunty Hippicrit - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 1:16 pm: In consideration of your post: “@Anon - “Though I don’t carry concealed, one incident doesn’t prove concealed carry is dangerous.” Read the news from the other 49 states. It’s more like tens of thousands of incidents per year - including 30,000+ gun deaths per year. The US leads the industrialized world, by far, in gun deaths. And yet we rarely - very rarely - hear reports of CCW holders “protecting” themselves or others even though that is the stated intent behind CCW laws. The gun lobbyists don’t like it when these related facts are mentioned.” MY RESPONSE: I must remind you to properly vet your own facts as your post merely furthers misleading perceptions: for example, gun homicides in USA in 2007 were 9146, and declining (source UNODC small arms survey. Now, 9146 is also heinous and abysmal, but fully one-third of what you quoted. It’s hard to take you seriously when you either inflate or misquote statistics to backstop your argument. Use accurate numbers and cite your sources so that we can have an intelligent and civilized discussion. - jack - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 4:28 pm: If you have any questions regarding the CWP law or training contact www.e2c.us or 1-866-371-6111 and the Instructors at Equip 2 Conceal will be happy to help you. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.