111 Comments - dave - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 10:14 am: Lets get this straight… Rauner doesn’t like education cuts. Rauner opposes the millionaire’s tax to fund education. Rauner opposes maintaining the 5% income tax rate. So, how, exactly, would Bruce Rauner fund education differently? And why won’t any reporters ask him? - Steve - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 10:14 am: How about a limit on how much can be spent on administration? - PublicServant - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 10:16 am: ===So, how, exactly, would Bruce Rauner fund education differently? And why won’t any reporters ask him?=== I’m sure he’ll appoint a blue ribbon committee to look into the funding matter if elected governor. - cover - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 10:16 am: I actually agree, in concept, with Rauner about the need to examine university administrative costs. But it’s disingenuous of Rauner to attack Quinn over education funding, when Rauner wants to roll back income taxes to 3% - what do you think would happen to education funding then? - Demoralized - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 10:17 am: ==How about a limit on how much can be spent on administration?== That’s a red herring in the education funding argument. The amount of money you are talking about has little to no effect on anything. It’s a nice talking point but has little value in the overall conversation. *********** To the post - I would like to know exactly how Rauner intends to increase education funding while cutting taxes. - Nieva - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 10:18 am: It would be nice if some of those high paid professors would actually teach a class instead of having their assistants do it for them. - Walker - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 10:21 am: My fear that Rauner’s eventual plan to “increase funding to education” will be tax breaks for those willing to invest in charter schools and private education efforts. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 10:23 am: Don’t look now; Bruce Rauner is sounding more and more like those career politicians he doesn’t like. Example? Wants funding increases, no explanation how. While increasing that spending, he… “He also said he’d undertake a closer review of university spending as governor.”… …and lest we forget the Non-Politican Rauner wants to “re-prioritize” how money is spent. How, you may ask? Like all “good” politicians, “Hey look, a Quinnocchio” It’s April, and the Caricature of “Bruce Rauner” is being eaten alive by the Politician Bruce Rauner… with every word said, press release written, and every Quinnocchio sited. Rauner’s Crew is moving so far away from themselves, they are going to forget who they are at this rate. - lathamplace4 - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 10:26 am: Good point, Steve. - Now What? - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 10:31 am: A lie isn’t a lie if you believe it to be true -George Costanza - wordslinger - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 10:32 am: Rauners’s a laugh riot. According to him, the state taxes and spends too much but doesn’t spend enough. Follow that? Sometimes Bruce disagrees with himself, as he has said. - Makandadawg - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 10:34 am: MAP Grants have always been a tug of war. Quinn has used this every election cycle to fire up younger voters. Rauner is just attacking a Quinn offensive. - Walker - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 10:35 am: This isn’t about education funding, politically, it’s about the campaign message that Quinn is a liar. Dishonesty might be the key meme from the Rauner campaign at least for the Summer. It attacks Quinn’s former biggest strength, and current vulnerability. Rauner doesn’t have to say much else, for now. - Chicago Bars - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 10:36 am: He’s doing a press conference about making higher education more affordable & accessible at a private university that’s getting $50,000,000 + in city tax dollar largesse to build a basketball arena miles from it’s campus? I’d guess that choice was only due to a non-campaign policy at U of I schools (and City Colleges) but looks like he’s hitting NIU later in the day. - Arizona Bob - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 10:36 am: For a long time the bloat in public higher education has been taking a bigger and bigger piece of the taxpayer and tuition pie, at the expense of the poor quality of instruction at our major public universities. We make far too much use of inadequate quality graduate students in order to divert funds to overcompensated administrators and bureaucrats. WE need to take a serious look at how effectie, adn efficient, this MAP grant system is and reform it for the greater good of the students and citizens of Illinois. First, since the quality of JC instruction is gnerally far better than the Grad assistants’ teaching at the state universities, students should not be able to get MAP grants if there’s a JC they can attend. We also may need to be more selective as to the academic qualifications for MAP grants. If a student’s class rank and test scores predict less than a 60% probability of graduating based on historical data, they shouldn’t get the grant. We should also limit the schools at which the grant may be applied to state universities. With mayor Emmanuel givng away major dollars to DePaul for a new Depaul stadium, it’s pretty clear the that it’s politics steering that boat. It neesds to stop. We should also only give MAP grants to students who’ll be studying in curricula for which we need workers in Illinois. Engineering, business, adn other medical and STEM curricula that we need to serve the people and grow the Illinois economy amke sense. We don’t need to subsidize a bunch of English, sociology, “ethnic studies” adn psych majors whose degrees cirually gurantee underemploynment or unemployment drawing resources from those who can contribute. Finally, we need to make forgiveness of MAP grants for those working in Illinois for at least five years, NOT doer those who we subsidize to get a degree in conputer engineering from U of I and take the MAP mooney and run to Silicon Valley right after graduation. It’s time to minimize the political corruption in the MAP system and make it achieve what it was purported to, give low income students a means to succeed at school and become producive contributing members of our society adn economy. - Pot calling kettle - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 10:37 am: I think the Quinn campaign needs to dress someone up as a magician to follow Rauner around waving a wand that allows him to increase spending while decreasing tax revenue. Other possibilities include a little old lady dressed as Clara from “Where’s the Beef” fame; or even a Cuba Gooding Jr type shouting “Show me the money!” The shear gall of Rauner going around promising to spend more money on programs while cutting revenue should have every reporter asking some very pointed questions and insisting on answers with some real numbers. - Almost the Weekend - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 10:40 am: When is a reporter going to ask until he/she gets an answer on where Rauner will find all this money to support education. If Rauner was at a board meeting telling a million dollar company he will turn their company into a billion dollar company, without any details, I’m pretty sure the CEO wouldn’t buy what he is selling. - Soccermom - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 10:41 am: The Governor could help make college more affordable by offering reciprocal in-state tuition to neighboring state universities. Other states do it, but we don’t. He’d make hundreds of Illinois parents very, very happy — and he’d also draw some talent to Illinois from Indiana and Wisconsin. - A guy... - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 10:49 am: There is a concept of zero based budgeting. Start with the students (at any age) and work your way up. Administrative costs are too high. Reallocating money from less useful to more useful areas can produce results. If we’ve proven anything in this state, it’s that we don’t hold people or institutions accountable enough for the appropriations they receive. There’s just not enough checking on the balances. - Snucka - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 10:49 am: I’ve heard a lot of people marveling at what a great campaign Rauner has been running. I don’t see it. They’re going entirely negative very early, and the whole “Quinnochio” thing is childish and will grate on swing voters quickly. Rauner continues to propose no new solutions and I assume he will continue to rely on press releases and ads to get his message out. That may work in a GOP primary, but November is a whole different ball game. - anon - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 10:56 am: So the unknown (Rauner) is going to attack the integrity of the well known (Quinn)? I predict that this will backfire miserably for Rauner. Quinn has been a public servant longer than I’ve been alive. He has a long history of advocating for the middle class, and protecting the impoverished. Rauner has a long history of enriching himself from public pension funds through shady deals using his felon lobbyist Stu Levine. I dont care how much money has to spend on TV, or how many democratic political operatives he has hired (I know you’re out there). The people know and trust Quinn, and Rauner is an amateur in the public sphere. - cicero - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 11:00 am: Rauner logic: On the ond hand, it’s an article of GOP faith that Quinn is a Big Spender. On the other hand, Rauner excoriates Quinn for cutting spending on education. Rauner wants to have it both ways. What he doesn’t want to do is explain how his plan to let the income tax hike lapse will not result to even more severe cuts to the programs he criticizes Quinn for cutting. - OldSmoky2 - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 11:01 am: “Much of the spending at the University of Illinois and in other universities has grown very highly in the administrative cost structure.” That’s just not true. The previous president of U of I, for example, left after cutting administrative costs in that system by $30 million between 2009-12. It’s an old political gimmick to just spout off, “I’m going to cut wasteful spending.” The devil is always in the details after you get elected and have to actually identify and cut that “wasteful spending,” one budget line at a time. Again and again, we’re still waiting for Rauner to give us those details. - Roadiepig - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 11:03 am: Pot calling kettle - The shear gall of Rauner going around promising to spend more money on programs while cutting revenue should have every reporter asking some very pointed questions and insisting on answers with some real numbers. Exactly! I know its a long way to November, but how long will the press continue to let Rauner speak out of both sides of his mouth while he is proposing absolutely nothing? - Rich Miller - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 11:03 am: ===The people know and trust Quinn=== Have you ever seen his job approval numbers? They know him. They don’t really trust him. Why do you think Rauner’s hammering on this particular issue? - wordslinger - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 11:03 am: –There is a concept of zero based budgeting.– And five seconds after mulling over that “concept,” you still have about 2.1 million K-12 students and another 1.2 million in higher education. So much for zero. - PolPal56 - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 11:10 am: Soccermom, I checked the flagship institutions in our adjacent states. Only one, Wisconsin, has an agreement of the type you mention (with Minnesota). In Illinois, several state Universities accept students from border counties (and rarely entire states - SIU grad school accepts MO, I believe). When I looked at U of Missouri, they are ending this fall their program of accepting border state residents for in-state tuition. - ZC - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 11:10 am: >> We don’t need to subsidize a bunch of English, sociology, “ethnic studies” adn psych majors whose degrees cirually gurantee underemploynment or unemployment drawing resources from those who can contribute. There are some of us however who believe that learning to think and write well (and to spell) is still a much-needed and marketable commodity in today’s business world, too … - dupage dan - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 11:11 am: I am tired of this already and it’s only April. Got my first Rauner mailing yesterday. I don’t know what it said - I don’t read any of them from anybody. I hear Pat Paulsen’s son may consider running for president. Does he have enough time to establish residency in Illinois so I can write him in? - Ray del Camino - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 11:18 am: Some of these guys are a laff riot. “For a long time the bloat in public higher education has been taking a bigger and bigger piece of the taxpayer and tuition pie.” No, the amount of money my university gets in support from the state has been *shrinking*, not getting “bigger and bigger.” Check your figures. Budget cutters are putting the costs on the backs of the kids and their parents. I’m tired of hearing people bleating about “administrative costs” and “lazy professors.” If Quinn is cutting the eduction budget (and he has been) it’s because of tax-cut fever in a low-performing economy. And if the income tax hike goes away, the cuts are going to get a lot worse. It’s simple math. - OldSmoky2 - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 11:18 am: “We don’t need to subsidize a bunch of English, sociology, “ethnic studies” adn psych majors whose degrees cirually gurantee underemploynment or unemployment drawing resources from those who can contribute.” Yeah, because we don’t need any social workers, counselors, or (evidently and especially) English and grammar teachers, right? It’s just a myth that liberal arts majors are not employable. Many employers value workers with those backgrounds, and studies such as this one back that up. - Higher Ed - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 11:24 am: @Arizona Bob, you are incorrect on many points. MAP grants do not require payback so your forgiveness point is not an issue. As far as bloat in administration of higher education, all public universities are not the same . The U of I, as the states flagship university, does a great deal of research, has medical facilities and serves the public. By limiting administrative costs for those highly specialized fields would result in a sharp decline in those specialists willing to work in Illinois. That is already an issue because of the states pension issue. You cannot compare the U of I with the states smaller regional institutions. Top administrators at those institutions make a fraction of what their counterparts make at the U of I. An easy way to increase MAP funding for those students who need it most would be to take a close look at the for profit schools. Again, not all are equal. But when a for profit is spending 50% or more of their operating budget on marketing/advertising, that clearly demonstrates that they are not allocating adequate funding to instruction. These diploma mills leave students in deep debt, with useless degrees. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 11:26 am: === We don’t need to subsidize a bunch of English, sociology, “ethnic studies” and psych majors whose degrees cirually gurantee underemploynment or unemployment drawing resources from those who can contribute.=== ““Creativity is just connecting things. When you ask creative people how they did something, they feel a little guilty because they didn’t really do it, they just saw something. It seemed obvious to them after a while. That’s because they were able to connect experiences they’ve had and synthesize new things. And the reason they were able to do that was that they’ve had more experiences or they have thought more about their experiences than other people. Unfortunately, that’s too rare a commodity. A lot of people in our industry haven’t had very diverse experiences. So they don’t have lots of dots to connect, and they end up with very linear solution without a broad perspective on the problem. The broader one’s understanding of the human experience, the better design we will have.” - Steve Jobs. - olddog - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 11:49 am: If Rauner has even thought about how to “re-prioritize” and “invest in the classroom for the students,” you can bet it will involve more privatization, charter schools and give-aways to his Wall Street cronies. Bill Moyers of PBS had an instructive show last week, with several detailed posts to his website, about how “Public education is becoming big business as bankers, hedge fund managers and private equity investors are entering what they consider to be an ‘emerging market’.” http://billmoyers.com/episode/public-schools-for-sale/ That’s the world Rauner comes from, and its values are the values he reflects in his few public statements to date about school reform. He may truly believe what he’s saying, but what it boils down to for the rest of us is: Let them eat cake and clout their kids into Payton Prep. - Old and in the Way - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 11:54 am: Arizona Bob I am reminded of the old saying that sometimes it is better to remain silent and have people think you a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. There is so much just plain wrong with what he is saying I’m just going to let it go. Where do people get this stuff? - anon - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 12:10 pm: Im fine with polls, but I also know that there have been focus groups working this, and, bottom line is that people trust quinn. Aside from the scientific stuff, a number of people close to me have said, unprovoked, that they know and trust quinn. that personal experience I’ve had with regards to quinn’s trustability is very meaningful. rauner will try to buy this office. that is clear. its also clear that his sleaze factor will shine a very bright light on quinn’s integrity factor. this is a looser for rauner. - anon - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 12:10 pm: *loser. - A guy... - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 12:16 pm: ====wordslinger - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 11:03 am: –There is a concept of zero based budgeting.– And five seconds after mulling over that “concept,” you still have about 2.1 million K-12 students and another 1.2 million in higher education. So much for zero.==== Slinger, C’mon, this is really far beneath your intellect. You’re approaching this like Rodney Dangerfield in “Back to School”. All of our institutional spending; Education, Medicare, Medicaid, etc. is fundamentally broken. Bad decisions upon bad decisions for years. There are fundamental changes that have to occur or we cannot recover. No boom economy in history can mask the mess we’re in. Rich gets it, Rahm gets it, Bruce gets it, heck I think even Madigan gets it and Cullerton is starting to show signs of getting it. The only ones who DON’T get it are people who like the chaos, prosper from the chaos or are in so deep they have no idea what to do. Many other states have had to deal with issues like this, almost none with a hole so deep. Even in less of a quagmire, they’ve promoted a culture change in how to think about these issues and a more dramatic approach to solving them. You know who else gets it? The voters get it. MJM lost nearly every primary he was involved in. The difference between him and many here? He learns. - zatoichi - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 12:17 pm: I am going to drop the tax increase and increase spending in education. Terrific. Since the money pot is a static size, who has large cuts to provide that education money? - Demoralized - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 12:43 pm: @A guy: Zero based budgeting looks good on paper but from a practical standpoint doesn’t work. Having worked on budgets for 16 years I tell you that from experience. It might work in some instances, but in others (like Medicaid, which I only mention because you threw it out there), it doesn’t, nor can it work. Many of us do get it @A guy. Just because we disagree with your view of the world doesn’t mean we don’t get it. I just happen to think the solutions you espouse won’t work. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 12:55 pm: === Rich gets it, Rahm gets it, Bruce gets it, heck I think even Madigan gets it and Cullerton is starting to show signs of getting it.=== Get what? “It”? What is this “it” Pronouns are hard. If - Arizona Bob - has his way, learning pronouns, verbs, literature, poetry, they would be a distant memory. Is that the “it” you speak of? - A guy... - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 12:58 pm: Demoralized, Respectfully…we’ve tried your way. - Rich Miller - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 12:58 pm: ===MJM lost nearly every primary he was involved in. === He lost two. He was involved in several more. - CircularFiringSquad - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 12:58 pm: So Mitt Rauner wants to mandate school district consolidation, but complain a bout school cuts A true Whimp approach - A guy... - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 12:59 pm: -====Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 12:55 pm: === Rich gets it, Rahm gets it, Bruce gets it, heck I think even Madigan gets it and Cullerton is starting to show signs of getting it.=== Get what? “It”? What is this “it”==== I just provided you with 5 names. Ask them. - MrJM - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 1:01 pm: “Thoughts?” Fundamentally dishonest. – MrJM - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 1:08 pm: If you can’t back up your statements, I will weigh your Comments appropriately worthless. ===He lost two. He was involved in several more.=== Do we have to point to the “Scoreboard” again for you? - MrJM -, saying so much, with so few words. - Arizona Bob - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 1:13 pm: ZC, =There are some of us however who believe that learning to think and write well (and to spell) is still a much-needed and marketable commodity in today’s business world, too …= That’s fine, but the goal of a policy of subsidizing certain students to get a college education should be based on the economic betterment of the state, not making them better at their “hobby” for which there’s a glut of unemployed graduates. Writing and historical perspective are important in a well educated person, ut the state needs a financial return on its financial investment, and that means economic return in the state of Illinois. My college son loves history, as I did, but I told him he can take as many history classes as he wishes… AFTER he gets his business degree. - Arizona Bob - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 1:17 pm: OLdsmokey2, your statement that =The devil is always in the details after you get elected and have to actually identify and cut that “wasteful spending,” one budget line at a time.= is absolutely right, but first you look for potential cost savings using metrics, like number of students per employee. At U of it was 3 students per employee, IIRC. Is that proof certain thatthe reason is “Waste”? of course not. But it is a metric that calls for justification, and independent looks at cost savings have never been Illinois’ strong point. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 1:22 pm: ===…not making them better at their “hobby” for which there’s a glut of unemployed graduates…=== So you tell a child, any child, “You right history well, lil Doris Goodwin, but be an accountant… ===I told him he can take as many history classes as he wishes… AFTER he gets his business degree.=== Well, I got my answer…lol. ===the state needs a financial return on its financial investment, and that means economic return in the state of Illinois.=== To quote Ty Webb: “Is this Russia?” “Your child is an accountant. Your child is an Engineer. Your child is a Nurse…” How about Free Market intertwined with Free Will? If I am good at Chemistry, and there is a huge demand on Pharmacists, great match. To have Illinois demand that, then do do at the peril of missing the whole point of an “educated” society. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 1:40 pm: ===You right history well, lil Doris Goodwin, but be an accountant…=== What a Dope. “Right”, lol. See, you get lulled into allowing technology check your spelling, write for you, express for you, you get “right” not write… Right? - Demoralized - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 1:46 pm: == Respectfully…we’ve tried your way.== I’ll take my 16 year of experience over your ill informed opinion. There may be other ways of doing it. Zero based budgeting isn’t it. - A guy... - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 1:54 pm: === Rich Miller - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 12:58 pm: ===MJM lost nearly every primary he was involved in. === He lost two. He was involved in several more.=== Let me restate: Toni Berrios and Derrick Smith were high profile losses. Rosenberg was higher profile downstate that could result in losing a seat to the GOP. I’m sure he had plenty of influence in many other races as Speaker. He had plenty of squeakers too i.e. Christian Mitchell. I should’ve been more careful in making my case. Hopefully this helps make the point better. Madigan learned. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 1:59 pm: ===Hopefully this helps make the point better. Madigan learned=== Here is your shot at that; What did Madigan learn? - A guy... - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 1:59 pm: === Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 1:08 pm: If you can’t back up your statements, I will weigh your Comments appropriately worthless. ===He lost two. He was involved in several more.=== Do we have to point to the “Scoreboard” again for you? - MrJM -, saying so much, with so few words.==== Tried to be more clear above this one Willy. Did it more for Rich than you and the self admiration society of folks whose predictions just don’t work out. Ask Mike Madigan how he did this “go around” I’m willing to wager he’d tell you he spent “way too much” for “way to little”. I’m going to continue to try and offer you information despite your reluctance to learn anything new. Others are trying too. - wordslinger - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 2:04 pm: Can you have a “self-admiration society?” Self-admirations would seem to be a singular thing. Guy you don’t ever really say anything. Everything is “fundamentally broken” and needs to be “changed.” What are you talking about? And what is it that you “get?” - A guy... - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 2:04 pm: ====Demoralized - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 1:46 pm: == Respectfully…we’ve tried your way.== I’ll take my 16 year of experience over your ill informed opinion. There may be other ways of doing it. Zero based budgeting isn’t it.==== Demoralized. We disagree. I suggest you send your advice to Gov. Quinn rather than me. I’m supporting the other guy and I’m looking forward to a completely new approach to these problems. - wordslinger - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 2:06 pm: –I’m supporting the other guy and I’m looking forward to a completely new approach to these problems.– And what would that be? - OldSmoky2 - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 2:09 pm: “At U of it was 3 students per employee.” Wrong, Arizona. According to the Illinois Auditor General, U of I had 30 students per administrative employee as of May 2013, and according to the Princeton Review, the student to faculty ratio there is currently 19 to 1. - A guy... - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 2:17 pm: ===wordslinger - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 2:04 pm: Can you have a “self-admiration society?” Self-admirations would seem to be a singular thing. Guy you don’t ever really say anything. Everything is “fundamentally broken” and needs to be “changed.” What are you talking about? And what is it that you “get?”==== Slinger, if you’re serious and not just trying to be cute, I’ll give it a whirl. Fundamentally broken means at the very core of many of these well-intentioned programs, there were flawed calculations that didn’t take into account any changing dynamics. We have a pension system that is too generous in many cases, too many people are in it, too many people game it for more than one pension, the retirement age remained static while the mortality rates have people living into their 80s, there’s no accounting for ever asking the people who benefit from it to contribute more, it didn’t anticipate healthcare costs, it never truly accounted for the problems of compounding COLAs. In other words, it’s fundamentally flawed in it’s ability to remain sustainable. And the biggest problem being, the protections for it were enacted Constitutionally making it near impossible for it to be adjusted more gracefully over the years to reflect the changes nobody has much control over. Ergo, it’s conception was fundamentally flawed by well meaning people of good faith. Not so well meaning people of not such good faith refused to fix it when it was inevitable the system was heading toward failure. They actually consciously made it worse by not making contributions. They legally gipped the pensioners. In daylight. That’s fundamentally dishonest in every way I can think of and fundamentally broken. On purpose by people who chose not to be courageous enough to tell the truth and get consensus to fix it. If you still think I’m saying nothing, I just can’t help you and the society of folks you consistently agree with about everything. Don’t accept my points or premises if you don’t want to. Disagree early and often. The insulting approach reflects poorly on you. Only certain people resort to that. Hint; it’s not the smartest among us. - wordslinger - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 2:28 pm: Gee, and I thought the pension problem stemmed from shorting the contributions all those years. Guy, you just love to make up nonsense, don’t you? You ever going to fill us in on that 40% Medicaid spending fraud you spoke of? I know Schnorf and others have asked nicely for you to share the wisdom. - steve schnorf - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 2:36 pm: guy, speaking of ill-informed opinions, I’m still waiting (several days now) for you to back up with a credible source your wild allegations of the level of fraud in Illinois’ Medicaid program. Until you do that, you really should just slink away, or at the very least stop offering yourself and your ideas as well-informed. - Yellow Dog Democrat - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 2:37 pm: Rich is right. Rauner can, should and will hammer Quinn for all of the cuts he’s made as governor. Why? Go look at the Simon Institute poll. Voters don’t like tax increases. But they dislike cuts in spending even more. As I said yesterday, if I were working for the Rauner campaign, there’d be a swear jar on my desk, only instead of dropping in quarters for expletives, I’d make Rauner write a check for $50K every time he took a policy position. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 2:37 pm: ===Gee, and I thought the pension problem stemmed from shorting the contributions all those years.=== Now I know why I never got “it”… My bad. - Old and in the Way - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 2:42 pm: Wordslinger…….he can’t share what he doesn’t have! Same for AZ Bob……..for very difficult and complex problem there is a simple solution and it’s generally wrong……H?L. Menken. - Old and in the Way - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 2:44 pm: Bad day for spell check…… Every not very. H.L. Menken - A guy... - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 2:47 pm: Mr. Schnorf, I did post them. They were not appearing. I think I know of a place where you can find out if I’m telling the truth or not. I may have been serving a suspension. word and willie; I believe I addressed the pension holidays in my previous entry. Even with them, the math didn’t work out. They’re fundamentally flawed. - wordslinger - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 2:52 pm: Guy, you crack me up, lol. You sure your dog didn’t eat your Medicaid homework? - A guy... - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 2:53 pm: But, Steve, in the meantime, go to Representative Bellock’s website; she has a lot of good info there and it leads to even more. That was one of the links I posted. The whole “slink” thing. Really? That didn’t used to be part of your personality. It’s been awhile I guess. - Upon Further Review - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 2:54 pm: Illinois is spending huge sums on administrators, but not on classroom educators. Eliminate some of the bureaucrats and turn the savings over to the instructors. Over sixty percent of the classes at the City Colleges are taught by adjunct faculty while the administration has grown by 42%. - Old and in the Way - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 2:55 pm: A Guy Despite your self- anointed expertise in math and pensions your are simply and demonstrably wrong. No grey area. No equivocation. You are wrong. The pension problem was never about being over generous, or even people gaming the system (and they did) but rather the $42 billion in shorted payments. Period. Reality is hard facts and you are sadly short on facts and long on fantasy. - A guy... - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 2:58 pm: -===wordslinger - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 2:52 pm: Guy, you crack me up, lol. You sure your dog didn’t eat your Medicaid homework?==== I’m sure word. some lousy legislators ate it, with the help of many people fraudulently collecting from it and a state bureaucracy that had no idea how to fix it until a private contractor did. Their reward was turning it back over to the bureaucracy. I hope and pray they’ve got their arms around it now. For all our sakes. - steve schnorf - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 2:59 pm: Well hey, guy, just post them again, cause you clearly have online access right now. I’ll be happy to take a look, and if you in fact do produce a credible source that says what you say it will, I’ll eat crow right here in front of everyone. - OldSmoky2 - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 3:04 pm: “Illinois is spending huge sums on administrators, but not on classroom educators. Eliminate some of the bureaucrats and turn the savings over to the instructors. Over sixty percent of the classes at the City Colleges are taught by adjunct faculty while the administration has grown by 42%.” Really? As I posted less than an hour ago, U of I has 30 students for every 1 administrative employee as opposed to 19 students for every faculty employee. The last president of U of I cut $30 million in administrative costs from 2009-2012. As for the City Colleges of Chicago, I’ll leave the response to the Civic Federation of Chicago, hardly a bastion of bleeding-heart liberalism, which said in a report issued last July, “The Civic Federation supports the City Colleges tentative FY2014 budget totaling $657.0 million for continuing the District’s exemplary work to improve its financial and operational health. The FY2014 proposed budget holds the property tax levy flat for the fourth consecutive year and reduces the unrestricted operating portion of the budget, the portion over which the District has the most control, by 6.9% or $21.1 million. Now in the middle stages of its multi-year Reinvention reorganization effort to improve student outcomes and financial health, the District has redirected $51 million in administrative costs toward the classroom.” - wordslinger - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 3:42 pm: Guy, how do “many people” fraudulently collect from Medicaid? Are you talking about doctors? You know enrollees never see a dime, correct? - Demoralized - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 3:52 pm: @A guy: Perhaps you should be the guy running since you seem to be the expert in everything. You may support the other guy but, contrary to your belief, I seriously doubt he has the answers. As far as I’m concerned he’s already a failure with his “run government like a business” mantra. But you wouldn’t understand that either I suppose. And, you still never answered the question on Medicaid fraud. Either put up or shut up. - Demoralized - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 3:54 pm: @A guy: By the way, your arrogance tends to drive people away from taking you at all seriously. - Walker - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 4:04 pm: A guy: Your own guy, Rauner, would never be stupid enough to believe that zero-based budgeting would work well in government. It sounds good as a political claim for audiences who haven’t a clue — so we might hear him say it, but he would know better. “Zero-based budgeting” has been seriously attempted, because of one ignorant politician or another, many times in our government, for over twenty-five years, and found flawed. I used to consult on this in the private sector — it was a decent thought experiment to refine thinking about plans, but never produced much in terms of real numbers. - cicero - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 4:12 pm: == I’d make Rauner write a check for $50K every time he took a policy position.== Yet editors at the Trib, Daily Herald and many smaller papers will endorse Rauner despite him not taking policy positions, other than to criticize whatever Quinn does. Have they no shame? - olddog - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 4:21 pm: === We don’t need to subsidize a bunch of English, sociology, “ethnic studies” and psych majors whose degrees cirually gurantee underemploynment or unemployment drawing resources from those who can contribute.=== I wasn’t going to comment on this, but this afternoon I came across an article that mentions some of the wide variety of careers in fields like marketing, public administration and finance (i.e. managing a hedge fund) open to graduates in the humanities. http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/03/what-can-you-do-with-a-humanities-phd-anyway/359927/ But if you want state government to dictate young people’s career aspirations, I guess it’s (still) a free country. At least for our generation. - A guy... - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 4:22 pm: Team WS, OW, Demoralized, Walker, et alia, I’ve posted what I posted without success last Friday per your request and Mr. Schorf’s. So I think it’s fair to say I “put up”. Pardon my interest and experience which comes across to you as arrogance. I’m not trying to do that, and if that’s how you perceive it, I should work on it. While I do, perhaps you could examine some of your own posts as well. I like to be polite, but in the passion of debate, I may not have paid enough attention to that area. I’ll try harder and do better. Mr. Walker, while I support Bruce Rauner, it’s presumptuous to call him “my guy” any more that I’d call Pat Quinn “your guy”. These are our choices. I’ve made one. I’m not unsuccessful in business or consulting. We regularly use zero based budgeting models or at the very least use it on discretionary spending portions of budgets. It does identify waste. You know what else? It identifies and clears up what’s not waste. I’m very aware of how Medicaid works as well. Institutional cheating has been going on for a long time. Guess what, it happens at Blue Cross/Blue Shield too. Sometimes Doctors or their admin folks work to game the systems to get repaid. They figure since they wait so long, they can justify filing claims that even things out. Our systems are actually encouraging normally decent people to act in a felonious manner at times. It’s in need of more than repair. I’m sorry we disagree on so much. I haven’t made this personal with any of you. Are you better off not knowing how an opposing side views things? I don’t think so. I’m an active precinct captain outside of my professional job. I talk to a lot of voters every cycle and in between. 275 Republicans in my precinct alone. If you ask them questions, they answer you. I’m sharing with you. Apologies for offending anyone. Not for participating though. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 4:30 pm: ===Mr. Walker, while I support Bruce Rauner, it’s presumptuous to call him “my guy” === Dude, keep track of yourself… ===- A guy… - Wednesday, Jan 8, 14 @ 12:14 pm: O Willie, I am now ready to accept your accusation….He is “my guy” now, so the insinuations are now true. I’ve been a precinct captain for a long time. Our goal is to win. We sure haven’t achieved much of that. Glad I could come clean for you on that today. They’ve all got strengths and weaknesses. Objectively, he’s the guy now.=== Geez. Your inconsistency is consistent… - wordslinger - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 4:34 pm: –Our systems are actually encouraging normally decent people to act in a felonious manner at times.– Dude, you need to stop giving it away. You should do a pay-per-view. You are a laugh riot. Try posting all that evidence again. Pretty please? Didn’t realize that I was on a “team.” What do you say, gang? Should we do an “X-Men” thing with matching uniforms, or an “Avengers” dealio where everyone pretty much does their own thing? I vote for “Avengers.” And I’m Thor. Definitely Thor. - steve schnorf - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 4:39 pm: guy, if you truly believe you “put up” on the Medicaid issue with a non-existent post, you have very serious problems with basic reality. My mother used to tell me that it was possible I was right and every one else wrong, but highly unlikely. People on here would usually be very willing to have an honest discussion about many issues, and would be not only tolerant of but interested in positions with which they disagree. You can’t have those discussions with literally absurd starting points on either side. BTW, which of the people you talked with as you walked precincts told you about the 40%? Maybe they could give you a source. And another BTW, I also have seen multiple attempts to use zero based budgeting and its many spin-offs in government, and I have never seen success either, except for the pockets of the consultants spinning and selling. Maybe you could tell us in which states it’s being done well so we could look it up. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 4:55 pm: Avengers…sure. Can I humbly be Wolverine? To - A Guy… -, With respect, Speaking only for myself, the inconsistency in what you are trying to be, speak to, and defend are taking you down these roads. The talking points in those inconsistencies just dig you deeper. To bring this all back, to the Post, I get how the Rauner Crew is angling. Polling on Quinn, and attacking these flanks are low hanging fruit. If Rauner wins, the reality of his very successful angles to defeat Quinn are going to lead to either disappointment to supporters who believe this nonsense, or do this exactly, and fail based on the flawed premises of actually governing and these methods being used to govern. That is the “rub” for me. It can be failure many ways, and disappointment for many or even all(?) - A guy... - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 5:02 pm: Slinger, I do think the Avengers is the right choice for you. Thor, you are. Keep the hammer close by. Willie can be the Rubber guy. I’ll have to think about what Steve and his mom can be. I’m not sure of all the characters. Is the guy made out of rocks in that group? You wanted links, I gave them to you. The “my guy” thing in that context was out of the 4 available, but I said it. He’s now my choice out of the 2 available. He’s not a folk hero to me, just the best choice for me. Sorry for any confusion. Steve, I know you hold tight to the years in the Edgar administration. You served well. Some of the unsustainable problems we have today are the result of continuing policy that required the same approach as then. Clearly, that has not occurred. In my “opinion” those years were not Camelot. - Demoralized - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 5:31 pm: @A guy: I’m not privy to your private sector experience and I take you at your word as to your success. You should do the same with my 16 years of public sector budgeting experience when I say zero based budgeting does not work in the public sector. You don’t need to use some special budget model to do what you suggest needs to be done. You can use all of the different “forms” of budgeting you want but none of them will accomplish anything other than for somebody to be able to say: “Hey, look, we are using zero based budgeting.” The problem isn’t the budget model used in government. The problem is the decisions made by decision makers on what they want to fund. Unless you know of a way to eliminate politics in public sector budgeting your desire to use a different budget model won’t work. What I think you (and the guy you support, Mr. Rauner) fail to realize is that government doesn’t work like the private sector. It’s just a fact. Wishing it to be so doesn’t make it so. I vehemently disagree with you on most things, mostly because I think you lack understanding of the confines within which one must work in government. Telling you that doesn’t mean that I (and others) don’t think changes can (and should) be made. I believe you need to re-think your ideas and how they might be altered to fit within what can and cannot be accomplished realistically in government. - Norseman - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 5:32 pm: Steve, I don’t recall Guy’s post, but I did see a link to a story that dealt with redeterminations and managed care. The problem with the Raunerbots and other extremists is that any reference to additional costs from the redeterminations or potential savings from managed care gets labeled as fraud. You eloquently addressed those issues in an earlier thread. It’s easier to persuade people when you use inaccurate and inflammatory terms - Demoralized - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 5:43 pm: @A guy: One other thought. I have no stake in doing things one way or the other. I would just prefer I not have to waste my time on something that sounds nice on paper, but is meaningless in reality. I always tell people: “Tell me what it is you want to accomplish and I will help you navigate the “system” to get it done (at least up until the point that the General Assembly takes over the debate).” The experience exists. Rely on that experience. One of Blagojevich’s flaws (though there were many) was his failure to use experienced people to accomplish what he wanted to accomplish. He knew best and had no desire to get help from those who know how to do so. - Filmmaker Professor - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 5:53 pm: I never thought I would say this, but … Rauner is right as far as administrative bloat is concerned at the U of I. Those stats some of you are quoting about cuts to administration are nothing but budgeting slight of hand. They simply redefined who is and isn’t an “administrator” and, (poof), the administration is suddenly smaller. It is all B.S. And, as far as all those professors who don’t teach classes, who are they? give me their names. I bet you can’t name even one. put up or shut up. - Holdingontomywallet - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 6:51 pm: Wow, big fight in the sand box today. How many more days until the election? - Streator Curmudgeon - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 7:26 pm: il Bruce’ wants to get the trains running on time without spending any money. In fact, he’s using the old GOP slur of “Tax and Spend” again, even with his pricey Eli Gold consultants. For a guy who hates “career politicians,” he has quickly morphed into one. - Anonymous - Thursday, Apr 3, 14 @ 11:43 pm: How I wish we had a Republican to vote for in this next election. These 2 fools are cut from the same cloth. - Yellow Dog Democrat - Friday, Apr 4, 14 @ 12:59 am: Zero-based budgeting is an urban myth. According to a study by the National Conference of State Legislatures, it was implemented at the federal level by Carter and just as quickly disassembled by Reagan. Because it didn’t work. Just as recent independent audits of Medicaid spending by states cost far more than they saved. Just as drug-testing of welfare recipients in Florida cost far, far more than it saved. Millennia of government budgets; anyone honestly believe that no one thought of counting from starting at zero until 1973? - Soccermom - Friday, Apr 4, 14 @ 5:40 am: PolPal56 – This is what happens when you trust somebody’s word without checking. The person who told me that all our neighboring states had reciprocity was clearly misinformed. But that said, I did some checking on the tuition reciprocity issue and it’s interesting — and there is some room for Governor Quinn to lead and win the support of suburban soccermoms and soccerdads. Minnesota has wide-ranging reciprocity agreements with neighboring states (and a Canadian province.) It would be interesting to see how that’s working for them, and whether it would be a model for Illinois. We are participating in the Midwest Student Exchange Program in a limited way. Would it be possible to expand? Here’s the problem — UIUC is way oversubscribed, with an announced plan to expand enrollment of international students. That annoys a lot of parents of high-achieving high schoolers here in Illinois, who wind up paying way more to send their kids to the flagship universities in other states. If we could reduce that hit, it helps the Governor politically with a bunch of suburban families. Additionally, if we make Illinois public colleges more affordable to out of state students, I’m guessing we’d draw some talent into the state — kids who would stay here after graduating from NIU or SIU. I’m guessing the net cost would not be great. It’s certainly worth taking a look at the possibilities. - AnonymousOne - Friday, Apr 4, 14 @ 8:07 am: First on the agenda would be making our state schools affordable to ILLINOIS citizens’ children! Then actually accepting the best and brightest ones rather than the ones from out of state for those tuition dollars. Happened to my son. Best and brightest——5 out of state flagship universities honored him with merit scholarships, Illinois accepted him seemingly begrudgingly, with zero acknowledgement. With scholarship money, it was less costly to go ANYWHERE of those 5 other than Illinois. I don’t get how offering in state tuition to out of state kids helps our own. My son will be a proud graduate of Iowa with stellar credentials and now that he’s spread his wings, will go wherever his professional search takes him. Hawkeyes really know how to take care of their kids. - 47th Ward - Friday, Apr 4, 14 @ 8:18 am: Illinois exports more college students than any other state besides New Jersey. I don’t think our neighboring states are interested in reciprocity, they’re doing just fine right now with Illinois students filling their classrooms and dorms. The University of Iowa has as many Illinois students as Iowans. Illinois decided long ago to limit its capacity for public higher education. Private universities in Illinois pick up some of the slack, graduating about the same number each year as all of the publics combined. It still isn’t enough and many students leave Illinois for college. The best thing Illinois politicians can do for the universities is to stop micromanaging them from Springfield. Fund them and free them to do their job and they’ll thrive. - A guy... - Friday, Apr 4, 14 @ 8:54 am: Gents, this is the 4th time I’ve attempted to post these links since 3/28/14. I believe Rich would confirm this for you. www.repbellock.com/tags/inthenews articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-12-22/opinion/ct-illinois-medicaid-fraud-edit-1223-20131222_1_medicaid-rolls-medicaid-recipients-state-workers www.pjstar.com/article/20131221/NEWS/131229847/10929/NEWS This one explains a little more the wildness of the estimates and the dispute with Maximus.www.sj-r.com/x369942580/Future-of-Medicaid-eligibility-contract-in-doubt/?tag=6 - A guy... - Friday, Apr 4, 14 @ 8:55 am: If you google Illinois Medicaid fraud, there are many, many others. So many you may pick your source. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Apr 4, 14 @ 9:13 am: ===One number tossed around last week was that Maximus found 40 percent of those receiving benefits were ineligible. At least, that’s how some people characterized it. Baloney. Maximus reviewed about 497,000 Medicaid cases since the beginning of 2013. Of those, the final review work was completed on about 315,000 cases. And of those, 40 percent were found to be fraudulent and terminated. So it’s not 40 percent of all Medicaid cases, it’s 40 percent of those checked, which is far less. Also, the ones that were checked first were mostly cases where the state already had suspicions. In other words, easy pickings. Once those are gone, it’s entirely possible the rate of fraud discovered will go down.=== - See more at: http://m.pjstar.com/article/20131221/NEWS/131229847/10929/NEWS#sthash.cBo1qut9.dpuf Please learn to read - A Guy …-. Thanks. - Norseman - Friday, Apr 4, 14 @ 9:13 am: === If you google Illinois Medicaid fraud, there are many, many others. So many you may pick your source. === Goggle “dope” and you’ll get a lot of sources. - Roadiepig - Friday, Apr 4, 14 @ 9:26 am: A guy- clicked on the link to the PJ Star that you provided- Finke’s article was about Medicare fraud, but if you actually read it you know that it explained that the private contractor that was doing the study found that the rate of fraud wasn’t nearly as high as originally stated, and that they picked the “low hanging fruit” of claims that the state already had suspicions about in the first place to help justify their numbers. Not exactly the point you were trying to make, is it? - Roadiepig - Friday, Apr 4, 14 @ 9:28 am: Oops- just saw that “Wolverine” (aka Oswego Willy) beat me to the point. My apologies , fellow Xman. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Apr 4, 14 @ 9:32 am: - Roadiepig -, No apology necessary, not one bit. Maybe if all us “X Men” point this out to - A Guy… -, his reading might get better(?) - A guy... - Friday, Apr 4, 14 @ 9:39 am: Read them all X Men, passed them along. Glad you read them too. I believe my original statement was estimates between 25-40%, but I’m sure “Wolverine” could confirm that for you. Norseman is never such a surprise when it comes to being less than gracious, but Roadiepig, are you sure you want to join this cadre? - Roadiepig - Friday, Apr 4, 14 @ 9:42 am: Maybe Wolverine. Just maybe. I am sorry for Mr. Schnorf though- it looks like he will have to wait a while longer for all those “facts” about Medicaid fraud that “a guy” was promoting… - Oswego Willy - Friday, Apr 4, 14 @ 9:46 am: - Roadiepig -, anytime, there is always an empty stool…much respect. - A guy... - Friday, Apr 4, 14 @ 10:08 am: Bet there’s lots of empty stools. lol - Oswego Willy - Friday, Apr 4, 14 @ 10:11 am: Do. Not. Feed. Trolls. Especially those who can read their “proof”, lol - Roadiepig - Friday, Apr 4, 14 @ 10:34 am: - A guy… - Friday, Apr 4, 14 @ 9:39 am: Read them all X Men, passed them along. Glad you read them too. I believe my original statement was estimates between 25-40%, but I’m sure “Wolverine” could confirm that for you. Norseman is never such a surprise when it comes to being less than gracious, but Roadiepig, are you sure you want to join this cadre? You may be right about the fact that maybe I shouldn’t be involved in this discussion. After all, I am not by any means a political “insider”. I am just a retired man who did manual labor for a living, getting by in life with just a high school degree with a bit of college on the side. I have never worked for any political campaign, nor have I been involved in any zero based budgeting (I did manage a yearly budget for supply purchases for a storeroom, but obviously that is small potatoes compared to other’s experiences here). But the reason why I have been commenting on “your guy” is this- I have spent my entire adult life voting overwhelmingly for Republican candidates. When “your guy” started his campaign last late summer/early fall, I spent several days ,reading about Rauner from numerous sources available online, and learned about how he built his wealth, and realized he wasn’t who he was telling us he was. The more his campaign spun his story, the more it was obvious to me he was not the person we needed to remove Quinn from office and improve the future of this state (and yes, removing Quinn was my first priority , starting with finding the right person to run against him in the February primary). Once it became apparent that Rauner wasn’t that guy, I started getting more involved, explaining what I learned to as many people who would listen to what I had to say, and trying to get them to consider one or more of the “little three” who were also running for governor. Many of those same people decided to vote for another candidate because of what I said (after many of these ended up doing their own searches, at my urging, coming to the same conclusion). So yeah, maybe someone as uneducated as me shouldn’t be posting alongside some of the highly educated folks who are much more “inside” this issue than myself. But November is a long time off, and there is plenty of time for “buyer’s remorse” to set in for those 40% of the Republican primary voters who bought his empty platitudes and anger last month. That should be your biggest concern heading into the general election- that enough of us “stupid” (a term someone else {or was it you?} gave me a few weeks back because they thought a question I asked about Rauner wasn’t brilliant)folks learn enough about “your guy” to realize they made a mistake, and are now stuck with a choice of the lesser of two evils. That will be bad for “your guy”, because it will either mean votes switching to Quinn or people skipping the top of their ballots. Either way, we are stuck with 4 more years of Governor Squeezy (thanks in no small part to “your guy”) Time will tell, “a guy”… - steve schnorf - Friday, Apr 4, 14 @ 1:45 pm: guy, do you even know what the words “credible source” means? You referred me to a newspaper column, not even a news story. Do you know the difference? If you meant to say in your original post something like “I’ve heard some people say”, that would be different. Opinions aren’t facts. You’ve got a long way to go. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.