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Question of the day

Tuesday, Jul 1, 2014 - Posted by Rich Miller

* AP…

Illinois residents will be able to register to vote on Election Day, have more time to vote early and not be required to bring photo identification to vote early under a plan signed into law Tuesday by Gov. Pat Quinn.

Supporters wanted a trial run with the new rules, so the law only applies to the elections in November, with the goal of expanding it later.

Quinn called the plan critical to a democracy and said he wanted to make voting “as easy as possible.”

“It’s very, very important that we uphold those fundamental opportunities for people to participate in our democracy,” he said.

Backers said the measure will improve access for voters and help boost turnout at a time when other states are adding restrictions to voting.

* The Question: Do you agree that registering to vote and voting itself should be made easier, or do you think we need more restrictions than we had before this bill was signed? Take the poll and then explain your answer in comments, please.


surveys & polls

       

200 Comments

  1. - Ahoy! - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 1:52 pm:

    Voted to make it easier, but not sure I like this bill, it does seem like it could be ripe for corruption. I like the trial run.


  2. - Cassiopeia - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 1:52 pm:

    By not having to show any ID to vote early someone could vote under your name and thereby disenfranchise you.

    What happens if I show up on election day and am turned away because someone voted under my name?

    Somebody didn’t think this through!!


  3. - Pete - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 1:52 pm:

    The current elections are constantly under scrutiny with issues related to accurate counts and equipment.

    I’m not keen on waiting for the election judges to have to fill out the documentation to register a voter on site. It’s a challenge for some of our elderly election judges to just find the information for a registered voter now.

    This has to potential to grind electronic voting to a halt.

    Will the state be able to retract votes if there are election judges that bend/break the rules?

    There were issues with getting election locations open on time, add the state wants to add more work to an election judge? It shouldn’t be their responsibility to register voters on site. They are there to supervise the process.


  4. - Concerned - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 1:53 pm:

    If we are a true democracy, then we need everyone’s participation. Making voting easier will move us towards that goal of full participation.


  5. - Jim'e' - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 1:54 pm:

    The wacky nonsense of having to show an id before voting so as to stop voter fraud has not been a result of voter fraud, but rather an effort to suppress certain groups of people from voting; totally nuts unless those you are trying to suppress are sure to vote against your candidates.


  6. - Plasticsman - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 1:56 pm:

    In my opinion, both registering to vote and actually casting a ballot are ridiculously easy in Illinois. I voted to make it easier just in case there are barriers I’m not aware of but I have no objection to requiring a govt. ID of some type just to prevent voter fraud. It is embarrassing to see the low voter turnouts….I have not heard a good excuse yet. We all have to hold our nose and vote for the lessor of two evils on occasion. Exercise the right to vote or risk losing it over the longer term.


  7. - PublicServant - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 1:57 pm:

    People like to attribute apathy to why such a low percentage of potential voters actually vote. I have no doubt that is a factor, but making voting easier will also allow people the flexibility to fit voting into their hectic schedules. I voted “Make it easier”.


  8. - Jim'e' - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 1:59 pm:

    May I say Texas where a previous speaker of the house had to vote provisionally because he didn’t have an updated id, plus what’s the nutty requirement that nra card is acceptable but yet a student I’d is not sufficient. Suppression! Unless every form of id is acceptable.


  9. - titan - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 2:03 pm:

    ++++ - Pete - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 1:52 pm:
    I’m not keen on waiting for the election judges to have to fill out the documentation to register a voter on site. It’s a challenge for some of our elderly election judges to just find the information for a registered voter now. +++

    Note - the new law doesn’t allow registration in the polling place on election day - only in the county clerk or board of elections office (and some - but not all - of the early voting sites).


  10. - Diogenes in DuPage - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 2:04 pm:

    Easier. When 10% of registered voters pick our primary winners, 35% vote in off years & only 55% vote for presidential candidates, … Compare that to the wildest exxagerations of voter fraud, ….
    We should make it easier to vote in this technology age.


  11. - Steve - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 2:05 pm:

    Why should it be made easier? So some precinct captain in Chicago can reach his goal? Those who don’t want to make an effort to vote : shouldn’t.


  12. - Just Observing - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 2:05 pm:

    === If we are a true democracy, then we need everyone’s participation. Making voting easier will move us towards that goal of full participation. ===

    Registering to vote is pretty darn easy as it is. If it’s too difficult for someone to register to vote as it is now:

    1. I doubt they will take the effort to vote same day on e-day.
    2. I don’t think society will really benefit from their sage insight into who is the best candidate.


  13. - Blah - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 2:06 pm:

    ==By not having to show any ID to vote early someone could vote under your name and thereby disenfranchise you.

    What happens if I show up on election day and am turned away because someone voted under my name?=

    Do you really think there is someone out there who wants to impersonate you and risk being charged with a felony? Actual instances of voter fraud are very, very rare in the modern world. In order to vote under your name, that person would need to know your name, address, and their signature would have to match yours. If you show up on Election Day and someone happen to vote for you (which is very unlikely), you can vote a provisional ballot.


  14. - CLJ - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 2:06 pm:

    I voted to make it easier. I was floored when I first encountered this in Wisconsin. “You mean I didn’t have to go to city hall to register and what do you mean this is an open primary!” But the reality is that this just adds another responsibility for election judges, which in some areas are incredibly hard to find, especially ones that really know how to perform the basic duty of administering the vote, let alone registering voters as well.


  15. - lake county democrat - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 2:08 pm:

    Quinn calls this “critical to democracy” but gerrymandering most of our votes for the House and Senate into near meaninglessness isn’t worth pushing the legislature to put on the ballot. Whatever dude.

    I know that many (most?) people who want picture ID requirements have partisan motives to discourage minority and other pro-Democrat voters, and that evidence of actual voter fraud in these situations is scant, but I could never get too worked up about this.


  16. - VanillaMan - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 2:08 pm:

    Vote fraud?
    In Illinois?
    Pshaw!

    Right. The problem with Illinois government right now is how hard it is to vote. Sure. Yup. That’s the problem.


  17. - Timmeh - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 2:09 pm:

    Make it easier. The more people voting, the better our democracy will be.

    ==What happens if I show up on election day and am turned away because someone voted under my name?==

    Then you show them your ID and voter registration card and demand to be allowed to vote and let them sort it out. They can always throw out the earlier vote. They can’t go back and allow you to vote after the election.


  18. - Mighty M. Mouse - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 2:10 pm:

    I don’t vote on the surveys any more because voting has become more trouble than it is worth. I miss participating but not enough to want to have to deal with figuring it out. I wonder if participation has declined.


  19. - Wumpus - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 2:10 pm:

    I simply don’t think voting registration is difficult at all. A few simple rules should be in place. A photo ID or reasonable alterntive should be one of them.


  20. - skeptical - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 2:12 pm:

    I’m okay with making it easier and allowing corruption. Its just like in sports. Your team has to be enough better than the opposing team that you can still win despite bad calls by refs and interference by fans (sorry Cubs fans). If a candidate is not enough better to offset the corruption, then better luck next time.


  21. - Timmeh - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 2:13 pm:

    ==Vote fraud?
    In Illinois?==

    Why do illegal stuff like voter fraud when it’s much easier to have people walk a district or buy votes by blasting the media with political ads?


  22. - Wally - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 2:19 pm:

    If you have a 3rd grade education, it is already “easy as possible.”


  23. - countyline - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 2:20 pm:

    -Quinn called the plan critical to a democracy and said he wanted to make voting “as easy as possible.”-

    Quinn called the plan critical to democrat turnout and said he wanted to make voting “as easy as possible.”

    There, fixed it for ya guv-nah.


  24. - Louis G. Atsaves - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 2:20 pm:

    I had complaints in my precinct of voters receiving unsolicited ballots in the mail in 2012. They all claimed they did not fill out the form requesting such ballots. They were upset on election day because their ballots cast onsite were deemed “provisional” until all that was sorted out after election day. Someone played a dirty trick and nearly disenfranchised a half dozen unsuspecting voters.

    With “online” registrations and immediate registration on election day, I foresee additional problems.

    With ID theft online running rampant how does this all measure up in term of protecting votes and voters? You can still register to vote when you apply for a drivers license. Or a State ID.

    I always favor making voting easier. These provisions also makes it easier for someone or many to game the system or participate in ID fraud.

    Some ID was always necessary to register, whether a gas or electric or telephone bill to prove your residence. Now?

    The pendulum has swung too far into territory that seems pretty risky. And for what? To accommodate at best a tiny handful of potential voters who have multiple methods of registering, and still don’t bother?


  25. - Grandson of Man - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 2:24 pm:

    “The wacky nonsense of having to show an id before voting so as to stop voter fraud has not been a result of voter fraud, but rather an effort to suppress certain groups of people from voting”

    I agree and voted yes, make it easier to register and vote.

    Voter ID laws have been mostly overturned by courts because they’re not warranted and would disenfranchise voters. Their purpose, as well as voter restriction laws, are to suppress turnout, to make it harder to vote.

    The Texas GOP wants to repeal the Voting Rights Act.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/08/us-usa-texas-politics-idUSKBN0EJ0TG20140608


  26. - Upon Further Review - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 2:26 pm:

    @Jim ‘e:

    The first important permanent voter registration law in Illinois history was considered to be a major reform and it was signed into law by Governor Henry Horner — a Democrat. It is not difficult to comply with election laws. I find it hilarious that people can produce a photo i.d. to purchase cigarettes, alcohol or to pick up a prescription, but it is a burden to do so at the polls.


  27. - Timmeh - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 2:29 pm:

    ==With ID theft online running rampant how does this all measure up in term of protecting votes and voters?==

    Why steal someone’s vote when you can steal their cash? Why open yourself up to the risk when the vote is only going to be 1 vote out of thousands or millions?

    ==“as easy as possible.”==
    Maybe I missed people waiting for half an hour to vote on election day in the 2012 Presidental Election.

    Look, I doubt that early voting makes a huge difference in turnout (though, more is better, even if it’s just a little bit more). The real advantage is allowing people who are going to vote anyway to have a more convenient time to vote.


  28. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 2:30 pm:

    Should be easier. I can’t think of a reason against.

    The “vote fraud” argument is a joke. If there was all this vote fraud going on, don’t you think turnout numbers would be a lot higher?


  29. - Mason born - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 2:30 pm:

    I voted harder and to be honest Mr. Astaves pretty much summed it up at 2:20.


  30. - 4 percent - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 2:32 pm:

    It should be made easier but there have to be limits. Walking in and voting with no ID is a recipe for disaster.


  31. - A guy... - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 2:33 pm:

    It’s not onerous to do this now. Absentee (vote by mail) voting is easy. Early voting is easy. Voting in general is easy. Registration is easy. Same day registration is a bad idea to me. As this progression keeps going “why not just vote for them too”. Leave it how it is would be how I’d vote on this one. That option wasn’t available.


  32. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 2:37 pm:

    ===“why not just vote for them too”===

    Reductio ad absurdum


  33. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 2:39 pm:

    –Walking in and voting with no ID is a recipe for disaster.–

    Huh? Since when?


  34. - Upon Further Review - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 2:41 pm:

    Recommended viewing:

    “The Great McGinty” directed by Preston Sturges or “Crime Does Not Pay - You, the People” (short subject now available as part of a DVD boxed set).

    Both movies serve as primers on how it is done. Lax voter registration procedures are a key ingredient to vote fraud.

    Vote Fraud is very real and Illinois has historically been a major center for illegal voting.

    The key reason for my “No” vote was driven by an awareness that both Chicago and Cook County have struggled to staff polling places with precinct judges of elections in recent years and now you want to add registration to the election day process? I have seen some states where in precinct registration is routine, but the states were much smaller in terms of the voting population and did not have prior vote fraud problems.

    I am at a complete loss as to the elimination of photo identification requirements for early voting. Oftentimes, early voting does not take place in one’s home precinct or ward.


  35. - Belle - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 2:43 pm:

    I voted “make it easier” since we need to get more people on board. As a much younger person, I wasn’t much of a voter. But now I cannot understand why someone cannot take a 1/2 hour out of their life to do it. It’s easy and sometimes your guy wins!


  36. - A guy... - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 2:50 pm:

    === Rich Miller - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 2:37 pm:

    ===“why not just vote for them too”===

    Reductio ad absurdum====

    Now that you’ve revealed at least some altar boy training in your youth with a mastery of a latin phrase- use the same phrase for:
    Same day registration,
    Low voter turnout,
    the government presently in place.

    Voter fraud, while pooh-poohed among many here so far, does in fact occur. When it does…someone is voting in someone else’s stead. To conclude that’s where all this “let’s test it in this particular cycle” new voting policy might lead is absurd in your opinion. Hmm. We’re more reformed than I thought.


  37. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 2:53 pm:

    –Voter fraud, while pooh-poohed among many here so far, does in fact occur. When it does…someone is voting in someone else’s stead. –
    Says you.

    Historically, vote fraud has been committed by those who control the voting machinery, not a bunch of individual committing felonies by pretending to be someone they are not.


  38. - titan - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 2:55 pm:

    +++ - Upon Further Review - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 2:41 pm:
    The key reason for my “No” vote was driven by an awareness that both Chicago and Cook County have struggled to staff polling places with precinct judges of elections in recent years and now you want to add registration to the election day process? I have seen some states where in precinct registration is routine… +++

    It is important to keep in mind that the new law is NOT election day registration at the polling place.


  39. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 2:56 pm:

    ===some altar boy training===

    Lutherans don’t do the altar boy thing.

    I took a philosophy of logic class in college.

    And we’re all still waiting to see any studies showing statistically significant (took a couple of those classes, too) voter fraud in Chicago in the last decade or so. You’d think that if it was so rampant, there’d be lots and lots of evidence.


  40. - Upon Further Review - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 2:57 pm:

    It does occur, but it is not often prosecuted in Illinois. There was a village trustee in suburban Cook County who had a vote fraud conviction. Ditto Blagojevich’s former friend, Mister Longo.

    Beyond the Prairie State, US Senator Al Franken won a narrow election over Norm Coleman when a cache of mystery ballots were found in an automobile (Minnesota has same day, in precinct registration and voting). The ballots were counted. The mayor of a suburb outside of Miami is being investigated for having sixty plus ballots on hand. Eric Holder famously refused to prosecute voter intimidation in Pennsylvania.


  41. - Angry Chicagoan - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 2:58 pm:

    There have been no problems with same-day registration in either Minnesota — which admittedly has rather cleaner ways with politics than Illinois — or in North Dakota, whose modus operandi we would find more familiar. Besides, the problem in Illinois hasn’t been vote fraud — it’s been the way politicians get connected and slated in the first place, and then how that feeds into self-protection once in office.


  42. - dupage dan - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 3:02 pm:

    Voter fraud wouldn’t be needed in Chicago, would it? More likely to be prevalent in more closely divided districts. Not sure there are many of those in Illinois even in the more red counties like DuPage.


  43. - The Prince - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 3:03 pm:

    Voter fraud is very difficult to prove. Absentee balloting is probably where it is found the most, if at all. Not a whole lot of evidence to be sure. Lutherans have acolytes which are similar to altar boys, maybe even coed now.


  44. - Fiscal Sense - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 3:03 pm:

    I recently was denied the opportunity to pick up a book for my wife from the library because I did not have my library card, even though the librarian could see my name in their computer system AND I was showing her my picture ID (driver’s license). The irony here is I could not get a book out of the library, but I could have voted with no problem. Does any reasonable person see what is wrong with this picture, especially since voter fraud is practically a legacy in Illinois? I just don’t get it.


  45. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 3:07 pm:

    Voted “easier”

    Up to campaigns to get their “Plusses” to vote to win.

    So far this rampant fraud at the polls has led to some of the lowest turnouts in recent memory.

    I still say, half snarlingly…

    Everyone votes, dip you thumb in Orange Dye in the General Elections… Blue and Red Dyes (ballot choice dictating dye color re: - 47th Ward -), and be done with it.

    It’s up to the candidates, parties and the GOTVs of all…to vote their supporters.

    Bet Rauner is loving these past two weeks…


  46. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 3:09 pm:

    ===I could not get a book out of the library, but I could have voted with no problem===

    False equivalence.


  47. - Precinct Captain - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 3:09 pm:

    ==- Upon Further Review - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 2:26 pm:==

    Do you regularly buy cigarettes, alcohol, or pick up prescriptions? I pick up prescriptions regularly for a family member and have never shown an ID once. Lots of places don’t check IDs for cigs and beer either. What you think happens doesn’t. I’ve also never shown an ID at the bank since I opened my last checking account and I didn’t have to show the ID then either, just had to fill out the form with ID’s info.


  48. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 3:11 pm:

    Google “GOP officials admit voter ID voter suppression” and you get 75,000 hits: NC, PA, TX, FL, OH….

    Why pretend otherwise when the people behind it cop to it?


  49. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 3:12 pm:

    ===since voter fraud is practically a legacy in Illinois===

    Essentializing


  50. - Precinct Captain - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 3:12 pm:

    ==Eric Holder famously refused to prosecute voter intimidation in Pennsylvania.==

    You mean the Bush administration? But I suppose facts don’t matter for a racist like you pushing a racist narrative do they?

    This means that the case was downgraded to a civil case 11 days before Obama was inaugurated, 26 days before Eric Holder became attorney general, and about nine months before Thomas Perez was confirmed as head of the Civil Rights Division.

    http://blogs.ajc.com/cynthia-tucker/2010/07/12/bush-doj-decided-new-black-panthers-no-major-case/


  51. - Fiscal Sense - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 3:16 pm:

    ===False equivalence.===

    Your take, Rich, nevertheless a true story. The library rightfully required a valid card to hold me accountable for returning the book or paying for it. Not requiring proof of who I am at the polls is not holding me accountable to fairly and legally exercise my right to vote.


  52. - Stooges - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 3:17 pm:

    St. Clair County has had a history of questionable voting practices, with people actually being charged with crimes and going to jail as a result. The Democrats can name their vote count in East St. Louis, that election board has been rife with problems forever.


  53. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 3:17 pm:

    All this voter fraud reminds me of the two headlines in Citizen Kane, and which is to be used depending on the outcome.

    “Fraud at the Polls” was used to explain “Charlie’s” defeat.

    If everyone can predict fraud so easily before it happens, why are we not hearing of the massive conspiracies driving this fraud?

    Apologists and victims, they see the fraud, just can’t point it out.


  54. - Precinct Captain - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 3:18 pm:

    ==Not requiring proof of who I am at the polls is not holding me accountable to fairly and legally exercise my right to vote.==

    You have to put your signature. Then the judges match it up. That is the accountability. Judges can challenge you and you can throw their challenge back in their face by having ID + bills or a lease agreement.


  55. - Upon Further Review - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 3:18 pm:

    Interestingly, you omit to mention that a certain former assistant US Attorney General made the rounds of the cable news shows protesting the politically correct decision. The lawyer claimed that the everyone simply wanted it swept under the rug.

    If we are living in a post-racial society, why do you choose to call those that you disagree with
    “racist?” Perhaps I ought to apologize to the African Americans that I had lunch with today for being such a bad person.


  56. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 3:20 pm:

    Get back to the question. Ad hominem attacks are not allowed here.


  57. - Keyser Soze - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 3:23 pm:

    If I understand this, a person will be able to arrive at a polling place, give a name and address, and then vote. If so, how many times can a person vote by simply going to other precincts and doing the drill? What have I missed?


  58. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 3:24 pm:

    ===If I understand this===

    You don’t.


  59. - overcooked - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 3:25 pm:

    The result of election day voter registration in Minnesota: Governor Jesse Ventura. Reason enough to say no.


  60. - Upon Further Review - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 3:27 pm:

    In recent memory, I have never seen a voter turned away for a suspect signature. Lack of a voter registration record or a flagged registration record, yes, but not for a signature comparison. With same day registration, I suspect that everybody who shows will be allowed to vote without being challenged.


  61. - Sir Reel - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 3:28 pm:

    Yes.

    Why should the majority pay for the crimes of a few? Enforcement, prosecution and punishment of those committing fraud instead of red tape and obstacles for those trying to vote.

    Here’s an idea: voting over 2 or more days instead of 1.


  62. - Upon Further Review - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 3:29 pm:

    I ought to add that the only other potential voters that I saw turned away were those who arrived at the wrong precinct polling place or who appeared at the front door after closing.


  63. - PolPal56 - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 3:30 pm:

    Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    If there’s all that fraud out there, where are the convictions?

    The Republican National Lawyer’s association did a study of voter fraud from 2000-2010, and when the accusations were removed and only the actual CONVICTIONS were counted, they found (and of course downplayed) that 21 states CONVICTED a total of one or two people in a decade for voter fraud. I believe the highest total was for Texas, with a grand total of 51 people CONVICTED for voter fraud over an entire decade.

    Yeah. Voter fraud appears to be a reeeeaal big problem.


  64. - zatoichi - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 3:32 pm:

    How much easier can it get? I have lived in Illinois most of my life, voted a lot, and cannot recall anything beyond registering then, on the day, showing my driver license to match my signature. From statements here you would think that voting is a constant quagmire of corruption and cheaters. I must live in the an odd part of the state.


  65. - PolPal56 - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 3:36 pm:

    In 2006 the U.S. Department of Justice (couldn’t find more recent figures in a quick search) released that from 2002-2005, 197 million votes were cast for Federal candidates. Forty voters were (Federally) indicted for voter fraud, and of those, 26 were convicted or pled guilty.


  66. - Mason born - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 3:36 pm:

    Prince

    –Lutherans have acolytes which are similar to altar boys, maybe even coed now.–

    Been Coed for at least 25 years when i was doing it.


  67. - Fiscal Sense - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 3:39 pm:

    ===they found (and of course downplayed) that 21 states CONVICTED a total of one or two people in a decade for voter fraud.===

    Not sure where you got your data from but here’s the website of the Republican National Lawyers Association with shows overwhelming accusations and findings that do not support your statement

    http://www.rnla.org/votefraud.asp


  68. - Upon Further Review - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 3:39 pm:

    If vote fraud is an illusion, how does one explain all the bogus signatures recently processed by the State Board of Elections in several referenda cases? The courts have told us that the petition process is closely intertwined with the right to vote. Petition signers are subject to prosecution for perjury and forgery, but such cases are rare. Fake petitions are a form of election fraud too.

    “Where are the convictions?” Well, there are not all that many because the crime is easy to commit and extremely difficult to prove and only a few such cases are approved for trial every cycle.
    A big edge for corrupt individuals can occur if there is partisan election judge cooperating with the schemers. Members of the judiciary and election bar are familiar with those matters because they receive the newsletters. Some Chicago wards were infamous for what was allowed to go on. Voting in nursing homes was also a problem area.


  69. - County Clerk from Downstate - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 3:42 pm:

    We have some many conflicting rules during the voting periods. With no excuse absentee voting which is period prior to Early Voting and Monday before the Election you do not need to show ID. On Election Day you do not have to should ID.
    Grace Period voting will starts October 8 and runs through Election Day under the new law. From October 8 till November 1 if you vote grace period in the clerk’s office you put you ballot in ballot box. Under the new Grace period law your ballot will provisional and will not be counted until a review if you cast a Grace Period ballot just prior to and on Election Day. Talk about confusion handling additional provisional ballots and unknown final results for two weeks?
    It is good idea but once again those in charge in wring the laws do not really talk the people who have to run the elections. I believe that there will hundreds if not thousands casting Grace Period ballots on Election Day. Why because many people did not take the time to register to vote and decide Election Day they want to vote and make a difference.


  70. - countyline - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 3:43 pm:

    Want to make voting easier, make election day a Saturday when more people can get to the polls.


  71. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 3:45 pm:

    === how does one explain all the bogus signatures===

    Dude, that’s such a reach. Are you even aware of what you’re writing?

    Petition signatures aren’t votes.

    Sheesh.


  72. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 3:46 pm:

    Seriously, some of you people really need to get a grip. Deal with reality. Think before you write.


  73. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 3:47 pm:

    –The fact of the matter is, if you’re too lazy to prepare for an election by acquiring the proper ID (even if its free), you don’t deserve to vote.–

    Missed that part of the Constitution. Where did you find it?


  74. - Timmeh - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 3:50 pm:

    ==How much easier can it get?==

    Google “Election day wait time” or “Election day lines”.


  75. - countyline - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 3:52 pm:

    -Missed that part of the Constitution. Where did you find it?-

    “Rights are subject to restrictions”…I’m sure many of you crying about having to show an ID to vote have said that more than a few times when discussing other constitutional issues….have you not ?


  76. - A guy... - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 3:53 pm:

    In Latin, Sheesh = Ave. New altar boys hear that phrase a lot.


  77. - The Prince - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 3:54 pm:

    Keyser: Each precinct has their own book, so I am not certain that could be achieved. However, early voting has its own issues, especially when you can vote downtown and then go to a precinct later. But again, how many voters would bother pulling such a stunt?


  78. - A guy... - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 3:55 pm:

    Might be a good time to switch to French. Speaking Latin makes you less patient! lol.


  79. - A guy... - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 3:58 pm:

    ===But again, how many voters would bother pulling such a stunt?====

    depends on how close the election is. You can early vote at any voting location in Cook Co. (or other county) you’re a resident in. No real ID required, I can live in Flossmoor and vote in Evanston with no ID. No potential for problems there. Yep, move along. Everything is tight.


  80. - The Prince - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 3:59 pm:

    Countyline: There would likely be less turnout on a Ssturday, Why do you think Ward and Township organizations have their meetings on Saturday mornings usually?


  81. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 4:02 pm:

    === I can live in Flossmoor and vote in Evanston with no ID. No potential for problems there.===

    Except for the very real potential of you being arrested and charged with a felony. Yep. No problem there.


  82. - The Prince - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 4:03 pm:

    Guy, I understand; I just don’t know how many people would bother when the machines can be manipulated by the powers that be.


  83. - The Prince - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 4:06 pm:

    I forgot to point that out about the felony. Don’t think for a second than an ambitious (or subservient) prosecutor would make an example of said mope just to demonstrate that they are “tough on vote fraud.”


  84. - countyline - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 4:07 pm:

    -Why do you think Ward and Township organizations have their meetings on Saturday mornings usually?_

    For the same reason that school boards, village boards, etc have their meetings during the evening, because more people are available during that time, perhaps ?


  85. - The Prince - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 4:15 pm:

    Nope. They don’t want the Friday night partiers.


  86. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 4:15 pm:

    ===depends on how close the election is. You can early vote at any voting location in Cook Co. (or other county) you’re a resident in. No real ID required, I can live in Flossmoor and vote in Evanston with no ID.===

    If you can get a campaign, en masse, to get enough “voters” to get from Flossmore to Evanston to vote and impact an election, that campaign should be organized enough than to find enough “Pluses” to win.

    Why go through all the hoops to do all you said, when having a real Ground Game gets you to win with less effort?

    Dopey ideas that hard work and less effort beats.


  87. - RonOglesby - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 4:16 pm:

    I didnt’t vote here because I was looking for a 3rd option… DO NOTHING.

    Generally I am for anything that makes interacting with government (Voting for it, FOIA requests, dealing with licensing, etc etc) easier for the populace.

    But I didn’t see how the existing system was so “tough”. Registering to vote, showing SOME TYPE of ID (even your voter registration card) doesn’t seem all that hard to me.

    Could extended voting hours or days be useful? sure. But I also look at it as part of MY RESPONSIBILITY as a citizen to MAKE TIME to vote and find my way there.

    If there are lines somewhere then we can address the lines with more machines/structure at the locations with the issues. But often just more and more stuff is thrown in that doesnt impact the specific problem.


  88. - Streator Curmudgeon - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 4:17 pm:

    If it’s easier to vote but the candidates still stink, is that an improvement?

    Wait, I think I just heard a tree falling in Shawnee National Forest.


  89. - The Prince - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 4:19 pm:

    Also, we are speaking in the abstract. No one who follows this blog closely would drive all over and attempt to vote more than once. It would actually be dangerous based on previously stated arguments. The danger lies in who counts the votes. There are 102 counties with varying systems of computation.


  90. - searchingfortruth - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 4:23 pm:

    It is somewhat ironic that the Legislators themselves must show identification to enter the building and chamber to cast a vote on a bill that allows one to vote without showing identification.


  91. - Nearly Normal - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 4:26 pm:

    In Colorado, they can register to vote online already if the person has a Colorado driver’s license. Further, the voter gets their ballot in the mail prior to election day and that must be received by the election office by 7:00 p.m. on Election Day.

    If a voter forgets to mail in ballot in time, they can surrender their ballot and vote in person on Election Day.

    Would be interesting to hear the debate on a similar bill proposed here in the Land of Lincoln!


  92. - The Whole Truth - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 4:26 pm:

    Searching…
    More than ironic. Symptomatic of the issue and more than a little hypocritical.


  93. - Concerned - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 4:31 pm:

    Has anyone here, or anyone you persoinally know (no repeating urban legends or right wing talking points) EVER experienced the situation of showing up to vote and learning that “you” (via an imposter) voted for you? I didn’t think so. IDs cure a non-existent/imagined problem. It is simply cover for (as the Legislator in PA made clear) “let’s make it hard for the ‘blah’ people to vote.”


  94. - The Whole Truth - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 4:32 pm:

    Concerned…
    Yes.


  95. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 4:33 pm:

    Nearly Normal, online registration is already Illinois law. The second thing you mention is also possible here.


  96. - Federalist - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 4:34 pm:

    This argument goes on and on and on.

    I just want a system that works and that people who are not eligible to vote don’t. Verification of who you are and that you have registered to vote so that state authorities can verify your eligibility is not too much to ask.

    Anybody can point to example on either side of this issue to ‘prove’ their point. I would just like a truly honest effort to make this process honest.

    Will be flying tomorrow to another country. And boy will I have to provide passports, visas, and sometimes asked questions.


  97. - The Prince - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 4:38 pm:

    Federalist: You are absolutely correct. Good luck voting in another country. What have we done?


  98. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 4:39 pm:

    –It is somewhat ironic that the Legislators themselves must show identification to enter the building and chamber to cast a vote on a bill that allows one to vote without showing identification.–

    What’s ironic about it? One’s a security issue, the other is a voter suppression tactic.


  99. - The Whole Truth - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 4:43 pm:

    WS…
    Seems the definition of ironic…requiring ID to vote to not require ID to vote. Yes, the locations and purposes are different, but not the concept.


  100. - The Prince - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 4:46 pm:

    How is there voter suppression? I remember when it was almost near impossible Not to be registered to vote that Jewel and Dominick’s had deputy registrars at the electric doors every Saturday for years. If you want to register to vote it is not difficult at all in Illinois. Pennsylvania was going to give voters the ID cards if they couldn’t afford them but that was not enough either for some reason.


  101. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 4:48 pm:

    TWC, it’s a false equivalence argument. And it’s as plain as the nose on your face.

    This has truly morphed into the “Big Lie” argument as well. Oh, no! We must be protected from no real threat!!!

    Stand down.

    There may actually wind up being some problems with this bill. I cannot say there won’t.

    But I do know from years of experience watching this process is you definitely do not make big sweeping laws to address rare occurrences. It almost always fails and backfires.

    And, frankly, the not so subtle (and all too real) racism behind voter suppression tactics makes my skin crawl.


  102. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 4:49 pm:

    TP, ignorance - feigned or real - doesn’t really go over well hear.


  103. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 4:51 pm:

    Also, TWC, if you recall, a Statehouse guard was murdered by a nutcase with a shotgun. That’s why we have security in the building. Thank goodness the lunatic didn’t realize it wasn’t a session day.

    So, back off that argument. I knew the guard who was killed. He was a heckuva man. Don’t drag him into this.


  104. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 4:59 pm:

    It’s a voter suppression tactic because that’s what the sponsors around the country say is the goal.

    Again, google “GOP officials admit voter ID voter suppression.”

    You mention PA. The assembly GOP leader there said the goal of the law was to carry the state for Romney.


  105. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 5:03 pm:

    Having to show an ID, or reducing the time a voter can register to vote ….is increasing voter turnout?

    It’s rhetorical, it’s comical, it’s suppression.

    If My Party was wise, and understood the opportunity here, a good Ground Game would bury a less organized opponent.


  106. - The Prince - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 5:06 pm:

    That’s why I mentioned Pa. I heard some of the same stories. In my experience, Illinois has been pretty open and apparently will continue to be so.


  107. - Federalist - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 5:09 pm:

    It will be interesting to see if there is real follow-up upon this legislation after the November election? And spot checks if it is enacted for future elections.

    Is there fraud? Is there not fraud? If there is fraud, how much? And how much fraud, if any, constitutes a problem?

    And if there is further analysis of this issue, which must consider both ease of voting coupled with the right to do so, who will monitor that?
    State agencies, political parties, other groups?

    Speaking for myself, I would like to have a National ID that is photo- biometric based.

    The government, and far too many others, already have more information on me than I would like. A national ID card at least would serve my purposes some times and would be very hard to forge or misrepresent.

    Having said this, I can see both left, right and libertarians going after me. Good. Let the issue be discussed (although not here since that is the focus of this post)


  108. - Arthur Andersen - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 5:11 pm:

    I’m for whatever it takes to easily show up and write-in Oswego Willy for Governor. No more, no less.


  109. - The Whole Truth - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 5:18 pm:

    Returning faith and trust in the system will help increase voter turnout. The perception that “my vote doesn’t count anyway” is a predominate reason given for not voting. Sure, for some it’s a cop out, but certainly not for all. For many, it is the main reason they don’t vote. Requiring some accountability, even something as basic as showing who you are, is a good first step in restoring faith and trust.


  110. - Precinct Captain - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 5:21 pm:

    ==- Upon Further Review - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 3:18 pm:==

    First off, I never said we live in a “post-racial society,” so do not attribute something to me I never said and never claimed. Second, you are a racist because you are pushing a racist narrative that the Obama administration refused to prosecute a voter intimidation case because the administration is stocked with anti-white racists, which Christian Adams was claiming, an assertion that is demonstrably untrue on every count. The Bush administration refused to criminally prosecute the NPB, the Obama administration did prosecute them civilly. The alleged intimidation, which no voter actually alleged, took place in a heavily Democratic precinct. Who were they intimidating? Lastly, the GOP vice-chair of the USCCR admitted the entire effort against the Obama administration relating to this matter was an attempt to try to “topple” Eric Holder and the DoJ IG found that both administrations acted on “non-racial and non-partisan grounds” in this case.


  111. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 5:22 pm:

    ===Requiring some accountability, even something as basic as showing who you are, is a good first step in restoring faith and trust.===

    So making it more difficult to vote will increase turnout? Yikes.

    - AA -, dragging out all our “Plusses”, and if that means registering some on Election Day is the winning cake - Norseman - and his Crew thinks works, then I know this campaign had a chance.


  112. - MrJM (@MisterJayEm) - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 5:22 pm:

    “What happens if I show up on election day and am turned away because someone voted under my name?”

    You won’t be turned away. You will be allowed to cast a provisional ballot and subsequently prove your identity to the election authority.

    – MrJM


  113. - MrJM (@MisterJayEm) - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 5:26 pm:

    Question for those who support voter ID to stop the alleged menace of voting fraud: Have you ever volunteered as an election judge?

    If not, I have questions about the sincerity of your purported concerns over free and fair elections.

    – MrJM


  114. - The Prince - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 5:29 pm:

    Has anyone been charged/convicted of voting under someone else’s name? Again, why would someone bother. It’s like “chain balloting.” Any recent cases?


  115. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 5:34 pm:

    Florida officials admit to voter suppression.

    http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/news/state-regional-govt-politics/early-voting-curbs-called-power-play/nTFDy/


  116. - The Prince - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 5:38 pm:

    Actually they pay election judges now. Poll watchers not. It’s a long day and the committeeman, if a Republican, will bring you some donuts and sub sandwiches while he is shoring up his lobbying contracts and losing elections. If you are a Democrat you already have a job anyway and got the day off.


  117. - countyline - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 5:38 pm:

    So OW, how does showing ID in some way make it more difficult to vote ?


  118. - The Prince - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 5:41 pm:

    MJM: I like your terminology of “alleged menace” of voting fraud to date. Difficult to prove and or commit. If people can vote from computers and phones, all bets are off.


  119. - The Whole Truth - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 5:47 pm:

    OW-
    Most if not all prospective voters already have some sort of ID. Requiring it be shown to vote is neither a significant hardship nor would it make it more difficult to vote . As far as how it would help voter turnout, re-read my post.


  120. - Federalist - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 5:47 pm:

    And so the arguments continue.

    This is a Blue state and will remain so. Occasionally a Republican might win for Governor but I do not see the GA being Republican- well beyond the distant skies.

    So the Democrats will do what they want and they want this.

    How will the Republicans respond assuming the are opposed to many aspects of this legislation? Will they try to ‘expose’ voter fraud and go on the rubber chicken circuit as a campaign issue?
    Will they take it to the Courts even including the SCOTUS? Will they do nothing?

    So far the Illinois Republican Party looks hapless as they whine but never go on the offensive in any meaningful way.


  121. - Modest proposal - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 5:48 pm:

    I really hate to choose between these two options. There are so many inefficiencies in the voting process that makes it tough. While I would like to see online registration and same day registration I also would like to see IDs. So… Yeah. That’s my opinion which doesn’t fall under either choice given.


  122. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 5:54 pm:

    ===So OW, how does showing ID in some way make it more difficult to vote ?===

    Since it’s not difficult to not show ID, why the extra hurdle?

    ===Most if not all prospective voters already have some sort of ID.===

    ===…if not all..===

    So, not every single voter gas one, so they, who are legally eligible to vote, can’t?

    So since not every single voter or eligible voter may have an ID, there is the hardship.

    I was being snarky. However, suppression disguised as security is suppression all the same.


  123. - The Prince - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 5:56 pm:

    SCOTUS won’t do anything. They generally stay out of political questions (to the extent they can consider this one of those ) and would have to grant a Writ of Certiaori.


  124. - The Whole Truth - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 6:04 pm:

    OW-
    So do you agree restoring faith and belief in the system would encourage and benefit voter turnout? And if you do not consider voter ID a reasonable first step to improve the perception of integrity in the system, what do you suggest other than removing accountability?


  125. - MAK - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 6:12 pm:

    Just remember, folks, we DO require ID-but at the front end, when you register. No need to require it a second time on Election Day. And yes, the new law does require ID and residency for Election Day registrants.


  126. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 6:12 pm:

    TWT, what are you talking about? You’re making broad assertions without a scrap of evidence.


  127. - Timmeh - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 6:20 pm:

    ==So do you agree restoring faith and belief in the system would encourage and benefit voter turnout? And if you do not consider voter ID a reasonable first step to improve the perception of integrity in the system, what do you suggest other than removing accountability? ==

    Question #1: Faith and belief in what? The idea that government can make a positive change in people’s lives: Yes. But the idea that people aren’t going to the polls because of “voter fraud” that could be “fixed” by “Voter ID laws” is ludicrous.

    Question #2: The way to improve perception of our voting system is to continue to show the facts. Voter fraud doesn’t happen often and politicians know that there’s better alternatives to get votes. If people aren’t willing to listen, then voter ID won’t chill them. They’ll find a new paranoid frenzy to attach to.


  128. - The Whole Truth - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 6:23 pm:

    WS-
    Don’t really see what you mean by broad assertions. See my 4:23 post. I’ve posed questions based on that and in response to other comments made here today. As for what I’m talking about, I’m at a loss how to be clearer, but I can try.


  129. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 6:32 pm:

    - The Whole Truth -,

    I’ll help you;

    Bring in Jimmy Carter, have international observers, and institute the “thumb” voting system, with the dyed thumb guaranteeing, “one person one vote”, and then the General Assembly will deny seats or wins until all the dyed thumbs and ballots are approved…

    ===So do you agree restoring faith and belief in the system would encourage and benefit voter turnout?===

    Are we in Illinois a 3rd World banana democracy? When was the last campaign that was determined by provable massive fraud, Kennedy in 1960? lol.

    Has there been a governor’s race, legislative race, that a court, or ruling electoral body determined massive fraud, or just garden variety fraud changed the balance, provable, and reversed the outcome?

    You are being a victim and using suppression to feel secure. Does suppression sound like an open society?

    There are plenty of rules to dictate registration and fraud. Enforce those.

    Finally, what proof do you have that this type of suppression leads to higher turnout, specifically to the “feeling” of honesty in the process?

    Yikes. You can find a 3rd World banana republic to peddle this.


  130. - Federalist - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 6:34 pm:

    @The Prince - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 5:56 pm:

    SCOTUS won’t do anything.

    Yes it is political but so are a lot of their decisions.

    Let’s face it they have ruled on issue that could be easily construed as state’s rights issues and have federalized them.

    And contrary to what you think, I believe it would be very difficult for them not to take the case at least as it relates to the election of federal officials.


  131. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 6:40 pm:

    ======So do you agree restoring faith and belief in the system would encourage and benefit voter turnout?===

    I will tell you something I know;

    I had more people tell me they didn’t vote because they had to get dry cleaning before it closed after work (Truth! 2 people, to my face, 2 seperate elections)…

    Than the zero people who ever told me they weren’t voting because they had no faith or belief in the process.

    Two to Zero, lol


  132. - John a logan - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 6:41 pm:

    Deleted again, my badge of honor gets another notch.


  133. - The Whole Truth - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 6:41 pm:

    Timmeh-
    I think we can agree that a significant part of voter apathy is due to perceptions the system is corrupt and an individual’s vote makes no difference. I see voter ID as at least a first step in restoring a perception of integrity and a belief that every vote does count.
    I’m unclear as to what facts you suggest we continue to show. I don’t see that continuing to do what we’ve been doing will make any more difference than it has to this point, which is precious little. Voter turnout is typically abysmal, and I believe positive, concrete actions, taken incrementally, a better solution.


  134. - The Prince - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 6:46 pm:

    Oswego : it is already a Third World Banana Republic here. Jimmy Carter ? International observers? I am not find of the Illinois GOP as of late but come on. I may skip the Gubernatorial race myself; but come on .


  135. - The Prince - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 6:49 pm:

    There also used to be PSAs with Ronald McDonald saying “get out the vote.” People all over the world have fought and died for the right; and if people cannot be bothered because their dry cleaning is more important, that is obscene.


  136. - The Whole Truth - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 6:53 pm:

    OW-
    If you do not believe distrust of the system and the belief an individuals vote doesn’t count is a significant factor with voter apathy, you must have a much different circle of friends and acquaintances than me, and we’ll have to agree to disagree. What then do you suggest as a way to increase voter participation?


  137. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 7:01 pm:

    - The Prince -,

    That was snark. You’re welcome.

    ===If you do not believe distrust of the system and the belief an individuals vote doesn’t count is a significant factor with voter apathy, you must have a much different circle of friends…====

    My friends are not in the hapless victims society and they are not wearing tin foil hats unnecessarily.

    Claiming your right that men and women died for is too corrupt to participate in is playing the ultimate victim card.

    ===What then do you suggest as a way to increase voter participation?===

    My Party should embrace this, and take this as the wake up card;

    Get a Ground Game, letting those who are GOP voters and can’t find a reason to register or vote to do both.

    If you honestly think 100% of the GOP voters are voting, or that voters more likely to vote for Republicans are registered at a 100% clip, that is simply not true.

    Instead of embracing victimhood, embrace this way to get new voters in the fold, and then voting.


  138. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 7:06 pm:

    ===People all over the world have fought and died for the right; and if people cannot be bothered because their dry cleaning is more important, that is obscene.===

    Two people have told me that, two different elections.

    Never, to me, have I heard that someone is not voting because the system, the voting system itself, was corrupt.

    Apathy is sickening, no matter the reason.


  139. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 7:08 pm:

    So just how big a crew do you have to have for an effective in-person vote fraud ring.

    Hundreds, thousands, all willing to commit multiple felonies to add one vote at a time?

    It’s a myth, part of a Heritage Foundation/ALEC effort to disenfranchise likely Democratic voters.

    http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/10/29/121029fa_fact_mayer?currentPage=all


  140. - The Prince - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 7:14 pm:

    OW: I absolutely believe that prospective GOP voters do not get involved in politics. The professional victims on the Democratic side generally do for two reasons. 1. Democrats Are the party of government and 2. Learned hate at the common core- public schoolwork is a great motivator


  141. - modest proposal - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 7:14 pm:

    OW - I have worked as an election judge, and I think it would be very good to at least be able to ask someone for an ID (but not require that they show it). Sometimes you don’t hear people correctly when they say their name or address. Sometimes people say they live on a road that has two names. It is easier to look them up in the system when you see their DL which helps to give you more information so you can better take care of them.


  142. - The Whole Truth - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 7:15 pm:

    OW-
    Again, doing the same thing over and over isn’t likely to produce different results. The “get out the vote efforts”, both partisan and non-partisan, have had some pockets of success, but have not seemed to change the underlying, long term apathy reflected in turnout percentages. Certainly the folks you mention using dry cleaning as an excuse to not vote exemplify that apathy.
    I still believe it will take something more fundamental than partisan rhetoric to get the vote out…the rhetoric itself is overloading people with, and they are becoming apathetic because of it.
    The best I’ve got is to restore faith and integrity in the system (clichés I know, but they are clichés for a reason). So far today, I haven’t seen any better suggestion than voter ID to start to do that. The fundamental change needed requires incremental steps, and I’ve yet to hear of a better first one today. It’s going to take more and different than has been done the last few years, by all parties.


  143. - The Prince - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 7:17 pm:

    Wordslinger: I do not believe there is massive vote fraud. Very difficult to substantiate


  144. - PoolGuy - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 7:20 pm:

    voted should be easier. have not seen one comment posted on here about vote fraud that i can take seriously. way to random and scattered evidence.


  145. - PoolGuy - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 7:22 pm:

    if you have that many people that could impact an election by vote fraud. why not have them legally register to vote and make sure they get to the polls to vote?


  146. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 7:23 pm:

    ===The best I’ve got is to restore faith and integrity in the system (clichés I know, but they are clichés for a reason). So far today, I haven’t seen any better suggestion than voter ID to start to do that. The fundamental change needed requires incremental steps, and I’ve yet to hear of a better first one today. It’s going to take more and different than has been done the last few years, by all parties.===

    Brought back your paragraph because, in very simple terms;

    Suppression does not mean integrity is achieved, no matter how it’s explained away, no matter how rationalizing the idea people can’t vote to make voting Bette is made to sound rosey.

    This…is why My Party can’t connect with voters.


  147. - The Prince - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 7:24 pm:

    OW : I know you do not like the term RINO but in illinois they tend to be Rinos. They like the ceremonial bs of being in Springfield but are not conservative by any way shape or form. Extension of the Democratic majority.


  148. - I have a question - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 7:26 pm:

    What stops a non-citizen from merely showing a lease or a utility bill or something from voting? I’m really curious. Are they just on the honor system???


  149. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 7:31 pm:

    ===OW - I have worked as an election judge, and I think it would be very good to at least be able to ask someone for an ID (but not require that they show it). ===

    It’s the denying of the vote in question. If they don’t have ID, but after telling you their name a 5th time, they vote, sure, heck, where I vote in Kendall County, we get asked are you the only Willy living here?

    It can not in any way impede the process. Period.

    ===OW : I know you do not like the term RINO but in illinois they tend to be Rinos. They like the ceremonial bs of being in Springfield but are not conservative by any way shape or form. Extension of the Democratic majority.===

    “Litmus tests” and “blood oaths” are destroying My Party. A homogenized GOP legislative caucus, is a minority caucus in Illinois.

    Mark Beaubien and Maureen Murphy, Bernie Pedersen and Skip Saviano. They all were in a majority GOP House Caucus.

    That ain’t wishing what could be, that “was”.


  150. - The Whole Truth - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 7:31 pm:

    OW-
    I can’t reconcile how showing you are who you say you are is suppression of votes. If anything, its proving the obvious, which makes it an easy and logical first step. However, for those who feel it is somehow suppression, again, we’ll have to agree to disagree. And I’ll ask again. What first step do you propose to increase voter participation? Or do you not see voter participation as a problem?


  151. - The Prince - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 7:40 pm:

    That was 94. I respected all those individuals. Don’t see it happening again soon.


  152. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 7:42 pm:

    === And I’ll ask again. What first step do you propose to increase voter participation? Or do you not see voter participation as a problem?===

    Let me be very clear.

    Here is where I come from in turnout.

    I want 100% of my found “Plusses”, mined from a strong GOTV, and at a baking cake formula to win the election(s) I want won by the candidates I support.

    I want 100% of my “Plus” voters, voting at a perfect rate to drag a candidate across the finish line.

    Turnout can be 20% or 90%, motivated or not, but dictating and controlling “my pluses” versus the turnout or even lack thereof, is my only objective.

    You don’t win, you don’t govern.

    For me, vote everyone, deny no one, follow the law, or face criminal prosecution. Convince all, you are the choice, hone a message, cultivate and harvest and vote “Plusses”

    That is the game, and more voters in the mix, the better, if you can understand your “Plusses”, your Ground Game, and your voters.

    The rest is just suppression based on fear, ignorance, and laziness to the process. Period.


  153. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 7:43 pm:

    ===That was 94. I respected all those individuals. Don’t see it happening again soon.===

    Then majorities in either chamber, that ain’t gonna happen.


  154. - The Prince - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 7:47 pm:

    I agree. Do you also remember when Madigan gave Durkin Skip and Mike McAuliffe committee chairmanships?


  155. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 7:47 pm:

    making easier to vote still have to declare a party to vote in a primary. Open primaries do much more to encourage turnout.


  156. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 7:54 pm:

    ===I agree. Do you also remember when Madigan gave Durkin Skip and Mike McAuliffe committee chairmanships?===

    You mean Unanimously elected Leader Durkin, and HRO Chairman and #1 Madigan target Saviano (He lost by many reasons including things said and done) and Rep. McAuliffe whose independence allows his votes to be traded for bi-partisan support for one Bill, for the greater agendas later on?

    Those three? Yeah, I heard of them, if memory serves…


  157. - The Whole Truth - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 7:58 pm:

    OW-
    I understand where you are coming from. I don’t understand how doing more of the same will change voter participation, especially when increased rhetoric and winning at all costs is falling on increasingly deaf ears, at least in my circles. I think restoring integrity, faith, and belief is more pragmatic and much more beneficial in the long run. You have to start somewhere. I’m still waiting to hear something better to do that than voter ID. If it’s out there, I’m open to it. Integrity in Illinois politics in general has become perceived as a rarity, and that is the non-partisan core of the problem.


  158. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 8:05 pm:

    TWT you haven’t presented any evidence at all that people don’t vote because they think voting is rigged.

    You claim making it harder for some to vote will increase voter participation, which makes no sense.

    How much are you willing to spend to solve your non-existent problem? Because with the Constitutional ban on poll taxes, everyone will get a Free ID. I guess copies of birth certificates will have to be universally free as well.


  159. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 8:19 pm:

    ===So making it more difficult to vote will increase turnout?===

    If it’s easier before IDs, what will make more people vote, by making it…harder?

    - wordslinger - has been all over this, rightly so.

    ===I don’t understand how doing more of the same will change voter participation, especially when increased rhetoric and winning at all costs is falling on increasingly deaf ears, at least in my circles.===

    If you can’t grasp the impact of GOTV and turnout, and maximizing that impact to victory, I can’t help you, because IDs have a greater influence than GOTV(?) …

    …in your circles.


  160. - Just The Way It Is One - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 8:27 pm:

    Easier. This is America for Land’s sake. Meet basic qualifications? Then you are one of the People who run this place we call Home. Now be heard and go and vote…!


  161. - The Whole Truth - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 8:29 pm:

    WS-
    I’m not sure what evidence you need other than todays posts and a few conversations that a significant part of voter apathy is due to the lack of belief an individual’s vote makes a difference. People may not volunteer such thoughts in a casual meeting, but little more than a few minutes honest conversation has proven the “claim” , as you term it, time and again in my experience. The explanation as to how voter ID can increase voter participation is in my posts. You may not agree with it, but the explanation is as clear as I know to make it. In terms of your 8:05 post, if you consider basic ID as making voting harder, perhaps doing so will make exercising the right seem a bit more precious, or at least worth showing you are who you say you are. Something exercised offhandedly with no real connotation that it has intrinsic value becomes perceived as such. For lack of a better way to state it, it’s a way to reinforce that voting is a right, with value enough there is some accountability associated with it.
    I believe voter apathy is a real problem, and not “non-existent” as you state. That divergence of opinion, if what you stated is how you feel, will likley require us to agree to disagree. As far as cost, I don’t see why existing ID’s shouldn’t be used, with minimal costs associated for the few who have none. As far as that goes, I’d pose the question to you. What is an informed and engaged electorate worth?


  162. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 8:34 pm:

    === As far as that goes, I’d pose the question to you. What is an informed and engaged electorate worth?===

    You don’t pay a Poll Tax, there isn’t a test to see if you are smart enough, you don’t have to own land…

    … And the list goes on and on with suppression or qualifying voters one way or another, instead of letting the voters vote and not qualifying them to how anyone wants them to be shaped.


  163. - Timmeh - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 8:40 pm:

    ==I see voter ID as at least a first step in restoring a perception of integrity and a belief that every vote does count.==

    I would love it if there was more voter participation. But of all the things to not vote for, thinking that there’s rampant voter fraud so your vote doesn’t matter is one of the stupidest ones.

    That isn’t to say that it isn’t true that people don’t vote because they feel their vote doesn’t matter. But that has absolutely nothing to do with “voter fraud”.

    People think their vote doesn’t matter because it’s being drowned out by money and special interests.

    People think their vote doesn’t matter because both parties seem to be equally incapable of achieving positive change.

    People think their vote doesn’t matter because of gerrymandering, Bush v. Gore, and voter ID laws. Yes. Voter ID laws. I want you to imagine these people who are ~~~proven to exist~~~ that are disenfranchised by Voter ID laws. What do you say about their vote? Does their vote not matter? What does it say when a major political party (by the way: There’s only 2) wants to disenfranchise that person? It says that they think their vote doesn’t matter.

    So when I hear you say ==I see voter ID as at least a first step in restoring a perception of integrity and a belief that every vote does count.==, I think that it’s a load of crap. Where are these people who think that they need an ID for their vote to matter? Where are these people who think that because of the 41 or 500 or whatever the incredibly small number of people who commit voter fraud, their vote doesn’t matter?


  164. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 8:44 pm:

    Here’s why people don’t vote, according to a study by the Census Bureau. Not seeing how requiring a photo id changes any of these reasons.

    And if a photo ID will be required to vote, it will have to be issued free to everyone. No poll taxes allowed.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/11/05/why-50-million-americans-wont-vote-tomorrow-in-two-charts/


  165. - The Prince - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 8:48 pm:

    Was Madigan shoving it to his own caucus by giving those three chairmanships ? Plus, this was around 96 or so. Everything you described came later .


  166. - The Prince - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 8:53 pm:

    Off topic: I think the Sun-Times is folding. Probably by Christmas. They did not renew their lease snd their website blows.


  167. - Federalist - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 9:01 pm:

    For those of you who insist that vote fraud is a myth, please, please remind yourself of all the problems in E. St. Louis and it has been going on quite some time with federal lawsuits and even some convictions back in 2005.

    So again, what can we do to prevent this and how can we objectively monitor our system so that it does not occur?


  168. - papa2008 - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 9:05 pm:

    Wasn’t it Stalin who said “Let them all vote, I just want to be the person counting the votes”? Our concern is with the wrong people. Vote fraud doesn’t come from the voters. It comes from the vote counters.


  169. - The Whole Truth - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 9:14 pm:

    Papa-
    You’ve opened a whole new can of worms there, and not one I can fish from tonight. You are very correct, I’d just like to see the change start with the voters. I think that’s how it will be most effective.


  170. - Federalist - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 9:15 pm:

    @papa2008,

    It can come from both which is what an honest reading of history will tell us.


  171. - Hickory - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 9:16 pm:

    If you are too lazy to register before election day you don’t deserve to vote. This is how you get more uninformed voters. Why not just call in your vote. That would be real easy.


  172. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 9:18 pm:

    - The Prince -,

    Try parking your thoughts in a stall instead of walking this around the barn.

    The Dem Caucus, outwardly still liked these 3 very much, and in the long run, didn’t hurt those 3, with Durkin being Leader now, and Saviano causing his own issues far away for either caucuses or their politics, and McAuliffe is still where he is, for better or worse….

    So…what was your point?


  173. - Timmeh - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 9:24 pm:

    Federalist: Most of us were talking specifically about the voter fraud that was used as the reason for Voter ID laws, which as noted by others have had incredibly small effects (I think someone said somethng like 60 indictments for the entire nation). There’s plenty of other voter fraud like St. Louis or spreading disinformation about polling places. But that wasn’t what I was talking about when I say that Voter ID laws address a mythical problem.


  174. - GraduatedCollegeStudent - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 9:31 pm:

    ===What stops a non-citizen from merely showing a lease or a utility bill or something from voting? I’m really curious. Are they just on the honor system???===

    Presumably the threat of both a felony conviction AND the instant deportation that comes with said conviction.


  175. - allknowingmasterofracoondom - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 9:37 pm:

    Great question Rich. Good comments but the question and answers are both loaded a bit.

    What would the definition of “making it tougher” vs “making it easier” be in relation to the question?

    The real play here is the “test cycle” better known as the OMG we are going to lose to Bruce Rauner cycle.


  176. - GraduatedCollegeStudent - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 9:38 pm:

    ===If you are too lazy to register before election day you don’t deserve to vote. This is how you get more uninformed voters. Why not just call in your vote. That would be real easy.===

    Fortunately there is a whole host of legislation and some Constitutional amendments that say that your concerns are not disqualifying factors for the franchise. As well they shouldn’t be.


  177. - Federalist - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 10:00 pm:

    @Timmeh,

    I accept your explanation as to your point.
    Just noting that voting fraud is an issue that should never be ignored. Nor should it be hyped hyped to hide another agenda.

    Still can not understand why anyone would honestly oppose that when you register to vote you are given a Voter card with your ID just as you are at the drivers license bureau. And when you vote you present that.

    Very simple, very fair, unless one has another agenda.


  178. - Cadillac - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 10:08 pm:

    Beat me to it….

    == For those of you who insist that vote fraud is a myth, please, please remind yourself of all the problems in E. St. Louis and it has been going on quite some time with federal lawsuits and even some convictions back in 2005. ==

    Yeah, :crickets:

    And I especially love the arguments about lack of convictions. They might have just elected the State’s Attorney.

    “Nothin’ to see here, move along”, until it is so blatant that the Feds have to step in.

    It’s a race to the bottom…..


  179. - Worst President since . . . - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 10:50 pm:

    You shouldn’t be allowed to vote until you can prove competency and knowledge of the government system, issues, and who or what you are voting for. In other words . . . an informed voter.


  180. - Just Me - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 10:54 pm:

    I never understood people who insist that voting needs to be as easy as possible. Voting should be hard, it should be hard to perform the function that requires you to research the issues and make an informed decision.


  181. - Upon Further Review - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 11:01 pm:

    @GraduateCollegeStudent:

    Seriously? Do you know how few people are being deported at present? Your suggested deterrent is rather meaningless in 2014/


  182. - MAK - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 11:08 pm:

    http://www.chicagoreporter.com/node/7360#.U7OFKIm9Kc1


  183. - GraduatedCollegeStudent - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 11:42 pm:

    ===Still can not understand why anyone would honestly oppose that when you register to vote you are given a Voter card with your ID just as you are at the drivers license bureau. And when you vote you present that.

    Very simple, very fair, unless one has another agenda. ===

    How about this. I’d rather it not be any easier for the government to tie my specific ballot to my person. Secret ballots exist for a reason, and considering how much of the voting process is electronic now, it is already too easy to tie your specific voting record to you.

    Related to that, though, is the point that some seem to be missing. Impersonation voter fraud is such penny-ante crap nowadays that nobody’s going to seriously do that. If you’re going to expend the necessary energy to rig an election of serious consequence solely through impersonation fraud…well why aren’t you just trying to break into the computer network? I don’t think its any harder than the impersonation fraud route, and there’s a bit more anonymity and much less of a paper trail.


  184. - GraduatedCollegeStudent - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 11:51 pm:

    ===Seriously? Do you know how few people are being deported at present? Your suggested deterrent is rather meaningless in 2014===

    Lets see…several hundred thousand last year. Probably roughly the equivalent of the entire populations of Peoria, Bloomington, and Springfield. I guess that’s not much compared to the U.S. population…

    But even if removals have trended downward since Obama was re-elected, I suspect that most “illegals” wouldn’t do something that would obviously put them on the government’s radar. Such as placing yourself in a position to be challenged by a poll watcher.


  185. - Retired and Fed Up - Wednesday, Jul 2, 14 @ 12:10 am:

    This is off topic but I just went to the Illinois Supreme Court Website and Kanerva/Maag is on the list of opinions to be released Thursday, July 3.


  186. - GraduatedCollegeStudent - Wednesday, Jul 2, 14 @ 12:22 am:

    ===I never understood people who insist that voting needs to be as easy as possible. Voting should be hard, it should be hard to perform the function that requires you to research the issues and make an informed decision. ===

    What part of “universal suffrage” don’t you quite understand?


  187. - Precinct Captain - Wednesday, Jul 2, 14 @ 1:25 am:

    ==- Upon Further Review - Tuesday, Jul 1, 14 @ 11:01 pm:==

    Back with more BS. Barack Obama has set record deportation levels each year in office. He has the highest rate of deportations of any president in American history.

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2012/12/24/167970002/obama-administration-deported-record-1-5-million-people
    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/aug/10/american-principles-action/has-barack-obama-deported-more-people-any-other-pr/


  188. - Mighty M. Mouse - Wednesday, Jul 2, 14 @ 2:23 am:

    So the poll is coming out 55% argue make it easier, while 45% say make it tougher. What a coincidence!

    It’s as if Illinois was a really blue state and the 55% were the Democrats and the 45% are Republicans.


  189. - 1096 - Wednesday, Jul 2, 14 @ 4:07 am:

    I have worked as an election judge since 2010 and I can tell many of you have not had experience working an election. I personally would like a voter I.D. law as it would make our jobs a lot easier and speed up the lines many complain about.
    I’ve seen it numerous times with every election where people come in with either a long name or have an accent or a speech issue (or the judge can’t hear them if they have a hearing issue) that requires us to ask them to spell their names numerous times which can be frustrating and time consuming for both sides. What’s worse is we can’t ask them for an I.D. to speed up the process by just looking at the I.D. (we have to wait and see if they volunteer it). If they offer us their I.D., I take it without hesitation since I can have their ballot application in a few seconds. The only thing that slows us down more than that is when they give us their name and we can’t find it, and it turns out after investigating that they are in the wrong polling place.

    Also, just because voter fraud isn’t highly prosecuted, doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. We had it happen in the 2012 General Election in the building I worked. Woman came in to vote at our precinct, then a few hours later came back and voted using her sister’s identity at the other precinct in the same building. This was discovered when the sister came to vote, only to be told she already voted. The signatures were pretty close when compared, but could see in hindsight where the differences were. We offered to let her vote provisionally and file a report, but she didn’t think it would matter and they wouldn’t count her vote anyway so she left in a fit. She said her and her sister differed politically, so that may have been the motivation.

    I do not buy the cries of it being disenfranchisement. With the need for an I.D. for many things (Alcohol, Cigarettes, withdrawing money from a bank, cashing a check, etc) I can’t see how there are that many people in this day and age who do not have a photo I.D. in one form or other. You do not have to require solely a driver’s license. If a person will put in the time and effort to register and vote, they shouldn’t have an excuse to not put in the effort to get an I.D. How about when they register to vote they can also obtain a free I.D.? I’m sure the number of people who have 0 forms of photo I.D. is just as big as the number of voter fraud instances, which many here claim to be minuscule. (Despite the fact I’ve seen one instance personally.)


  190. - PublicServant - Wednesday, Jul 2, 14 @ 5:54 am:

    Well 1096. All you need to do is change the constitution. Your anecdote about personally witnessing a case of voter fraud is irrelevant. How many people passed through without issue? There’s your denominator, with your single anecdote as your numerator. Multiple by 100 to figure out the percentage. If it’s more than 1/10 of 1 percent, you’ve got a very small sample size from which to draw your conclusions.

    ===I’m sure the number of people who have 0 forms of photo I.D. is just as big as the number of voter fraud instances===

    You’re sure based on what? Ideology maybe? Here’s the deal. You get the constitution changed and you get your wish. Otherwise, I’M SURE your rant will receive it’s proper due.


  191. - Nelson - Wednesday, Jul 2, 14 @ 7:28 am:

    I voted to make voting laws easier on the voter, but I think this Bill should have been amended to include a photo identification paragraph and provided funds for an electronic system so we know who has voted already and we can find that information out quick instead of trying to litigate voter fraud.


  192. - The Prince - Wednesday, Jul 2, 14 @ 7:41 am:

    Precinct Captain: they are counting people being turned around at border entry as deportations. No one is actually deported any more, really.


  193. - The Prince - Wednesday, Jul 2, 14 @ 7:44 am:

    OW: my point was to you directly. Asking you as an observer , Why do you think Madigan did that? All three had Rosemont connections. Were there members of his own caucus that would have wanted those chairmanships? Probably so.


  194. - The Prince - Wednesday, Jul 2, 14 @ 7:51 am:

    Again, I may have been criticized, but I remember when there were card tables outside of supermarkets all the time for voter registration. I do not think it should be as restrictive in some states but Illinois is way too loose. I saw poll sheets in Chicago with non-existent addresses on them.


  195. - PoolGuy - Wednesday, Jul 2, 14 @ 8:16 am:

    1096, I’ve seen it numerous times with every election where people come in with either a long name or have an accent…

    so people with long names and accents justifies the reason for ID cards? wow did you really mean to say that out loud? just wow.


  196. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jul 2, 14 @ 8:16 am:

    ===I have worked as an election judge since 2010 and I can tell many of you have not had experience working an election.===

    Yep.

    Most people who comment here know nothing of campaign for elections. (This is snark, so no one is confused.)

    First rule in addressing your audience; know your audience.

    - The Prince -,

    MJM, after losing the gavel to Daniels made a point that as he wanted a couple GOP Chairmen. Those three made the most logical sense. I am sure it wasn’t 100% loved, but those three had more support than any other MJM could have chose.

    Were feelings hurt? Possibly, but this ain’t beanbag, and those picks, after saying he wanted GOP Chairs made sense.

    If your point was Dem Caucus members were upset, I dunno what is relevant?


  197. - The Prince - Wednesday, Jul 2, 14 @ 8:22 am:

    If I recall this was 97 when Madigan got the gavel Back from Daniels. Water under the bridge now. Additionally, I think more posters on this blog have worked campaigns than you suggest.


  198. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jul 2, 14 @ 8:26 am:

    - The Prince -

    ===Most people who comment here know nothing of campaign for elections. (This is snark, so no one is confused.)===

    Use the “search” key to get the definition of “snark”, then get back to the class…


  199. - GraduatedCollegeStudent - Wednesday, Jul 2, 14 @ 10:53 am:

    To the point that you need an ID to buy some adult consumable or another, or to perform certain transactions…

    That’s not protected speech. Voting is, at its most raw form, protected speech.


  200. - 1096 - Wednesday, Jul 2, 14 @ 6:49 pm:

    All constitutional rights have limits. Illinois requires an ID to exercise your 2nd Amendment right despite how redundant the system is. There is a time, place, and manner where you can exercise your 1st Amendment rights. You can’t dismiss my argument witnessing voter fraud in one breath while at the same time saying that so many voters will be disenfranchised by requiring an I.D. Where’s the numbers to back up your claim? I have yet to see numbers that show there are so many people who do not have ANY form of photo I.D. they could produce where it would cause an undue burden on exercising their right. Yet nobody here seems to have any concern for the woman who wasn’t able to vote because her sister committed fraud against. I guess her vote doesn’t matter.
    -Poolguy
    Don’t put words in my mouth and twist them in an attempt to smear me. There are many people here complaining how the process is so difficult because it takes forever to go vote, or how long the line gets. There are judges who are hard of hearing; there are people with long names; there are people with accents that can make them hard to understand; there are people who never remember where they need to go vote. If you worked inside a polling place for one election, you would see it’s a fact of life I’m not pulling out of thin air. All these issues create delays in the line which creates a snowball effect, especially when it’s the morning or evening rush hour. It would speed things up a lot faster to tell people to have their I.D.s out and ready so we can just look at the I.D., find their application and verify their address and signature. This requirement would make it so much easier for so many people, but you’re against it because of some imaginary group of people who for whatever reason can put in the energy to go vote and register, but can’t put in the energy to get a photo I.D.


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