* Tribune…
A measles outbreak spreading across the country is fueling the debate over vaccinations and causing alarm among parents, pediatricians and public health officials in the Chicago area. Doctors are fielding calls from anxious parents — some who are wondering if their vaccinated children are safe, others who are re-examining their decision not to immunize.
“We’ve been getting phone call after phone call,” said Dr. Anita Chandra-Puri, a pediatrician, who estimates that inquiries into her Lincoln Park office regarding vaccines have gone from zero a month ago to about 10 per day. “Parents are asking everything — from whether or not their kids have been immunized to questioning whether it’s safe for them to travel.”
Dr. Robert Minkus has seen a spike too. The Skokie pediatrician said he has received “dozens and dozens” of calls during the last two weeks from parents who had declined or deferred immunizations and have now had a change of heart. “It was different when measles was something abstract,” he said. “But they’re saying, ‘I want it now.’”
Last week, the Illinois Department of Public Health reported that a suburban Cook County resident had a confirmed case of measles — the first this year. Before that, the state recorded only a handful of cases over the years, with no cases at all in some years over the past two decades. There were 32 cases reported statewide in 2008; 59 in 1994; and 1,356 in 1990 — when there was a surge nationwide.
* State statute regarding exemptions from immunization…
a) The provisions of this Part shall not apply if:
1) The parent or legal guardian of the child objects to the requirements of this Part on the grounds that the administration of immunizing agents conflicts with his or her religious tenets or practices, or
2) A physician licensed to practice medicine in all its branches, an advanced practice nurse or a physician assistant states in writing that the physical condition of the child is such that the administration of one or more of the required immunizing agents is medically contraindicated.
b) If a religious objection is made, a written and signed statement from the parent or legal guardian detailing the objection shall be presented to the child care facility or local school authority. The religious objection statement shall be considered valid if:
1) The parent or legal guardian of a child entering a child care facility objects to the immunization or immunizations on the grounds that they conflict with the tenets and practices of a recognized church or religious organization of which the parent is an adherent or member; or
2) The objection by the parent or legal guardian of a child entering school (including programs below the kindergarten level) sets forth the specific religious belief that conflicts with the immunizations. The religious objection may be personal and need not be directed by the tenets of an established religious organization.
c) It is not the intent of this Part that any child whose parents comply with the intent of the Act should be excluded from a child care facility or school. A child or student shall be considered to be in compliance with the law if there is evidence of the intent to comply. Evidence may be a signed statement from a health care provider that he or she has begun, or will begin, the necessary immunization procedures, or the parent’s or legal guardian’s written consent for the child’s participation in a school or other community immunization program.
* As the Daily Herald reported in 2013, that religious exemption is pretty darned broad…
Illinois has two types of exemptions allowing unvaccinated kids to stay in school: One calls for a doctor’s note if, for example, a child is allergic to a certain vaccine. Or, a parent can file a religious objection to the immunizations.
That second method has opened a gateway to forego the shots that more and more parents, such as Elgin’s Ashley Focht, are choosing to walk through. She has skipped immunizing her son Gavin, despite not having any actual religious beliefs against vaccines. […]
Juanita Gryfinski is one of the many school nurses who can provide a link to that help. She was recently a nominee for the Illinois Association of School Nurses Nurse Administrator of the Year Award for her work in St. Charles Unit District 303 schools. She reads every religious exemption letter in her district.
“The letter just has to state a religious belief that conflicts with our immunization policy,” Gryfinski said. “But they don’t have to attach it with a specific religious tenet or church. Some people are very specific and talk about fetal material used in a vaccine. Some just briefly mention ‘a creator.’ But as soon as it says religious belief it gets very unlikely that I would reject a request because I can’t read somebody’s heart. What I’m looking for is any indication that they are trying to avoid something else.”
* The All Natural Mom blog had a post about Illinois’ exemptions a couple of years ago…
In Illinois, you have to use the word “spiritual” or “personal religious beliefs” at least three times in your letter. […]
When submitting your religious exemption letter, here are a few tips. Get the school physical form that the school gives you (if they need a physical that year). Have the doctor fill out everything else. If you refuse vaccines, they just write over the vaccine section “Refused.” Don’t be scared by the nurses in your doctor’s office either. They are usually totally unaware of the laws because I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been asked by the nurses, “How will your kids go to school?” I was told my kids would not be allowed to attend school without their vaccines. Wrong. That’s what the pharmaceutical companies want you to think. […]
In the last 10 years, I’ve never once been asked to keep my kids at home. Why? Because there has never been an outbreak of one of these diseases. If there were, I’m sure we would have gotten a letter home to the class about it. We get letters every time someone has strep. I also believe if there were an outbreak, some nurses may not remember which kids were the ones who were not vaccinated. I’m thinking they are just required to tell us that.
If questioned by a school administrator who does not know the law, they may question your religious belief. This is illegal and tell them so. They cannot question your personal religious belief.
* The blog also published a sample letter…
To Whom It May Concern:
As parents, based on our personal religious beliefs, we object to the following vaccinations, including but not limited to, Dtap/DPT, HepB, Hib, Tetanus (TB), MMR, Polio, and Varicella (Chicken Pox), for our child, ___________.
Our child’s body is the temple of God. Our family’s personal religious beliefs prohibit the injection of foreign substances into our bodies. To inject into our child any substance which would alter the state into which he was born would be to criticize our Lord and question His divine omnipotence. Our faith will not allow us to question our Lord and God, nor to challenge His divine power.
I Corithians 6: 19-20, “Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have received from God? …Therefore honor God with your body.”
II Corinthians 7:1, “…let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God.
Our objection is based on our lifelong, deeply-held spiritual beliefs based on scripture.
The vaccination of our child violates laws put forth within us by a higher force at the time of conception.
Our personal religious beliefs include our obedience to God’s law, the Holy Bible, and we believe that we are responsible before God for the life and safety of our child, created by God.
Respectfully,
Your name
Discuss.
- John A Logan - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 10:15 am:
Anyone who is not getting their kids vaccinated is out to lunch mentally. Why there is a discussion about this at all is amazing. Republicans wonder why we can’t move soft Democrats, here is example number 54,678,689.
- QCLib - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 10:15 am:
My favorite part of this has been every single Republican looking at the presidential nomination reciting the exact same garbage: “It’s wrong for the government to require this, it’s evil and causes mental disorders. We vaccinated our kids, but that’s just us.”
- Witch Doctor - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 10:18 am:
Real simple: If you won’t vaccinate your kids, send them to Bible school, not the public schools. Your right to practice religion ends where my child’s health begins.
- Ron Burgundy - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 10:21 am:
Indeed, vaccinate your kids. If not for them, do it for others too young or immune system compromised to help protect your friends and neighbors.
I find it interesting that the anti-vaccination folks are at both ends of the political spectrum, and according to a couple of articles largely concentrated in rich, liberal enclaves in California, while red state Mississippi has one of the highest vaccination rates. I think some of the potential GOP presidential candidates may be miscalculating by being less than 100% pro-vaccination.
Also, that suggested letter above is more than a little wingnutty.
- Joe Bidenopolous - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 10:22 am:
Discuss? Really, there’s nothing to discuss. I throw those folks in the same pot as those who contend that dinosaurs and people co-existed and the world was created 5,000 years ago. Idiots.
I did see a most awesome comment after one of Jay Cutler’s disasters this year though:
Cutler will be fine, he’s immune to criticism. Unlike his kids, who aren’t immune to a darn thing.
- Wordslinger - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 10:23 am:
If you don’t vaccinate your kids, keep them out of the schools. Period. Better yet, keep them out of public. And for God’s sake don’t travel out of the country with them, since you love them so much.
You might think you have a “right” to put your childrens’ lives at risk, but you sure don’t have a right to infect the general public.
This “issue” is nauseating. To hear these wealthy, supposedly educated LA and Marin County types yammer on about how they put their learn on to reach the conclusion not to vaccinate is beyond belief.
Apparently, they’re not ignorant, because they claim to have done all that reading.
That can only mean they’re flat-out stupid. Poor kids.
- Person 8 - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 10:24 am:
The all natural mom blog post is prescribing to the theory, everyone else is healthy, so my kids are safe. I guess these people using religion as a way to not vaccinate will be learning what Survival of the Fittest is sooner rather than later.
- 47th Ward - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 10:26 am:
I blame Jenny McCarthy. And Jay Cutler’s dingbat wife. It’s been more the celebutants than the politicians driving this disturbing trend and the the cray cray on this issue is bi-partisan.
Left wing “natural” parents and biblical literalists usually don’t agree on much. In this case, they both reject science and common sense.
- jogger - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 10:29 am:
I don’t have a problem with the religious exemption being broad for public schools. Public school nurses should not get involved in anyone’s religion. That letter is more than a little crazy. So the blog is encouraging parents to lie, suing religion as a veil? What other wonderful value will such parents impart to their children? Parents who choose not to vaccinate their children are acting out of irrational fear and homeschooling might be the best option for them. I think it would send more of a message if more doctor’s offices would refuse to see patients who are not vaccinated.
- PublicServant - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 10:30 am:
Witch Hunter ftw! Plus, take your kids to your own bible-toting peditrician while your at it.
- former southerner - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 10:30 am:
Well at least it is consistent with trying to emulate third world conditions. The lack of a vibrant and growing middle class and the lack of preventative medical care for infants and children are two of the hallmarks of the world’s classic hell holes.
- OneMan - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 10:32 am:
A) Please provide an example of ‘every single Republican looking at the presidential nomination’ saying that….
Because they are not.
B) Please provide an example of a Democrat saying that if a parent does not wish a child to have a vaccination the government should require it anyway…
But thanks for playing…
Also I might refer you to this…
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fthedailyshow.cc.com%2Fvideos%2Fg1lev1%2Fan-outbreak-of-liberal-idiocy&ei=REfSVO3nLcumyATDjoKwBQ&usg=AFQjCNHJYGvVXuVKiSy6SPqgQbr3IwchSw&sig2=XwUCy5kDCzc2TY7_MBaehw&bvm=bv.85076809,d.aWw
Also out of 2,236,833 school children in Illinois about 13,078 used the religious exemption or less than 1%
- Secret Square - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 10:33 am:
A lot of the anti-vax sentiment is a holdover from the now discredited study made in the late 1990s allegedly linking MMR vaccinations to autism. The study was not definitively shown to be fraudulent until several years ago, and was still hugely controversial in the autism community around the time my daughter (now 19) was diagnosed; enough to make me even have some doubts about it (but I did, thankfully, vaccinate anyway).
- Juvenal - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 10:35 am:
1) Ask mom if she had an epidural.
2) Require all child care providers and schools to make data available on the number and percent of students that have been granted an exemption.
- aspects - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 10:36 am:
- QCLib - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 10:15 am:
My favorite part of this has been every single Republican looking at the presidential nomination reciting the exact same garbage: “It’s wrong for the government to require this, it’s evil and causes mental disorders. We vaccinated our kids, but that’s just us.”
I am definitely not a fan of his, but Dr. Ben Carson not only agrees with vaccinations, he feels there should not be exemptions for it.
- Wordslinger - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 10:38 am:
QCLib, the crazy is found on different points of the political spectrum here.
Bobby Jindal and Marco Rubio put the smack down hard yesterday on Rand Paul and Chris Christie for their weasel words, emphatically telling people to vaccinate their kids.
47, I heard a clip of Jay Cutlers wife on the radio yesterday (I have no interest in learning her name).
She said: “I read about a woman who had three kids, who didn’t vaccinate them, and her kids didn’t get autism.”
That was it. That’s how she reached her conclusion. Jay is obviously not the one with concussion problems in that family.
- Wensicia - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 10:38 am:
I heard on the news last night that some doctors are refusing new patients, based on the lack of immunizations. Could insurance companies refuse coverage for the same reason? I just wonder where we’re heading with this continued reemergence of once controlled childhood afflictions.
- LizPhairTax - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 10:40 am:
I can prove measles is real. Can you prove God is real?
- Upton Sinclair's Ghost - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 10:42 am:
I. Can’t. Even. As the parent of a child who had to delay vaccination for 4 months due to other medical issues, anti-vaxxers make me so incredibly angry. Blithely wandering through life depending on others to protect their children, they’re somewhere on the spectrum of climate change deniers or people who won’t buckle their seat belts.
- William j Kelly - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 10:44 am:
Secure the borders, dope.
- train111 - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 10:45 am:
I know some people who are true anti-vax disciples. Rational discussion with them on the topic is like arguing with a lamp post.
- OneMan - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 10:45 am:
The do and it includes private schools…
http://www.isbe.state.il.us/research/htmls/immunization.htm
- A guy - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 10:49 am:
Everything we do from the moment we wake up every day carries some risk. When Society kills a disease with a cure, we’ve overcome some huge risk. Vaccination is a very, very low risk. Not doing so is a high risk. Vaccinate.
- Jocko - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 10:51 am:
==13,078 used the religious exemption or less than 1%==
At what point does “herd immunity” get compromised? Unless you’re an epidemiologist, I’m not interested in your opinion.
You’re entitled to your beliefs, until they threaten the safety and well-being of my family.
- MrJM - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 10:58 am:
“Who is THE GOVERNMENT to mandate that MY CHILD ride inside in a car seat instead of on the hood? Gawd Almighty made me THE PARENT!!1!”
– MrJM
- Person 8 - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 11:03 am:
Reminds me of Penn and Tellers take(clean version)
http://youtu.be/Ffhi1CPzT48
- Gooner - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 11:05 am:
And then we have people like Billy Kelly blaming immigrants.
People like Bill want to blame Mexicans and then scratches his head trying to figure out why Mexican-Americans keep voting for Democrats.
- Anonymous - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 11:08 am:
Don’t want to vaccinate your kids? No public school, no public daycare, no park district programs and on and on. End of story.
- Under Further Review - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 11:08 am:
“Blame Jenny McCarthy.”
Hey, you know before she dropped out of SIU in Carbondale Jenny was even thinking of majoring in medicine!
So, she is, you know, opposed to vaccinations, but silicone, botox and peroxide bleaching of your hair is perfectly acceptable.
- dupage dan - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 11:10 am:
I think anyone who refuses to be vaccinated or refuses to have their offspring vaccinated should have the right to choose. However, choices have consequences. Herd immunity will be compromised if folks don’t get vaccinated. Infants too young to be vaccinated are particularly vulnerable.
Therefore, I believe you should be denied certain priveleges if you decline to vaccinate. No access to public education. No access to medical facilities. No professional licenses (law, medicine, architecture, etc) no access to public transit, no drivers license, and so on.
We have the technology to identify those who refuse this. Those who wish to avoid may find themselves somewhat isolated, which would be a benefit to the rest of us, no?
It sounds draconian. However, quarantine protocols existed in the years before vaccines were invented. It was the only way to prevent the spread of these horrible diseases. This is not a partisan issue, but I will certainly NOT vote for anyone who equivocates. The deniers hang on the words of ANYONE who so much as hints at it.
- pundent - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 11:10 am:
I think that the problem with recent statements from the likes of Paul and Christie is that they weren’t intending them to be “anti-vaccine” they’re appealing to the “anti-government” crowd. These are people that want no regulations or purported government interference with their lives.
But this is the problem that I have, if you are truly “anti-government” or support these views why would you hold public office?
- 39th Ward - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 11:11 am:
Catholic schools in Chicago don’t allow exemptions from its vaccination requirements based on religious beliefs. This is pretty standard teaching. Just saying.
- dupage dan - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 11:11 am:
I love Penn and Tellers take on this as well, Person 8. It is a stitch.
- dupage dan - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 11:15 am:
pundent, Rand Paul, being a physician, should have known better. A person can have libertarian leanings and still accept universal vaccine protocols. “The right to swing my fist ends where the other man’s nose begins.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes
If these folks do not understand the mindset of the vaccine deniers - that they hang on the every utterance of anyone who sounds remotely for “choice”, then they have no business in public office. Period.
- Archiesmom - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 11:16 am:
I had measles as a child, pre-vaccine, and was terribly sick, with a very high fever, incredibly painful headaches and body pain, and all the nastiest effects. I remember it de aides later and wouldn’t wish it on any child - or a parent, who has to see the effects. It was virtually eradicated, and is coming back. Refusing vaccines is self-indulgent BS based on no science. Shame on these people, and on the media that gives airtime to the politicians and do-called experts promoting this “freedom”. Wait until your child becomes sterile, gets brain damage, or worst of all, dies. There is a point where the state has to exercise its parents patriae authority on behalf of kids.
- Archiesmom - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 11:18 am:
*decades*. Sorry, I was ranting and didn’t notice an Autocorrect abomination.
- Witch Doctor - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 11:20 am:
Maybe try this.
Anyone who won’t get their kids vaccinated should be required to attend a class on communicable diseases that comes with plenty of videos, photographs and presentations from people who have survived mumps, whooping cough, etc. so that they can hear firsthand what it is like to have one of these horrible diseases. They should be required to watch videos of FDR and others at Warm Springs with atrophied legs. The course should last for at least 80 hours, and it should include plenty of scientists and physicians explaining why vaccines are safe and effective. After completing the course, parents who still refuse to vaccinate their children may send them to school, where they will be kept apart from other children and, as soon as they are old enough, taught about the benefits of vaccines, receiving, at some point, the exact same information that their parents received in the required training. If parents don’t like it, they are free to home-school their children.
- pundent - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 11:21 am:
dupage dan - Agreed. And this is why Paul will not move up the food chain. He will ultimately put himself in the same box as his dad. We can all get behind the idea of limited government when it suits us or aligns with our personal beliefs. But then there will always be those instances where it’s just wacky. This is one of them.
- William j Kelly - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 11:26 am:
Gooner, great point we should have open borders and allow anyone to enter regardless of the health or safety concerns of American citizens. Wait a second! That would really fly in the face of common sense, so I am sorry if it offends but secure the border dope.
- Ron Burgundy - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 11:27 am:
I suspect there might be a few topics out there that I might take the opinion of the 1993 Playmate of the Year on over the scientific and medical community and their peer-reviewed studies, but this is not one of them.
- Lil Squeezy - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 11:28 am:
So there are people opposed to the polio vaccine? That’s crazy.
- Gooner - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 11:30 am:
Kelly, in reality, border crossing are at their lowest point since 1972.
But that’s still way too many Mexicans for people like you, right?
Hey Bill, do you spend much time wondering why you finished fourth in a race for Committeeman? Your posts make the reasons clear to the rest of us.
- Shemp - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 11:32 am:
===II Corinthians 7:1, “…let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God.===
So creating antibodies to prevent infection is not purifying yourself? Yeah, makes sense.
- Del Clinkton - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 11:37 am:
The argument against being vaccinated is similar to the ones the NRA uses to justify the “the rite to bear arms”.
- OneMan - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 11:38 am:
Lil Squeezy
Yep, there are….
- OneMan - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 11:38 am:
Rich, I would add to that headline…
and yourself….
- Just Observing - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 11:38 am:
While I am 100 percent pro-vaccination, I would be pretty uncomfortable forcing it on people, not matter how stupid they are being.
- Under Further Review - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 11:39 am:
Last week, we said goodbye to Ernie Banks. If you check out his statistics, you will come across one really uncharacteristic season when his power numbers fell off and he missed many games. This was during his athletic prime, not when he was a bench player soon to retire.
Banks contracted the mumps as an adult and missed a significant part of a season. It caused the longest interruption in his entire career.
Bottom line: Get vaccinated. Childhood diseases are not just for children.
- Stones - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 11:47 am:
It really troubles me that this is morphing into a political issue.
- William j Kelly - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 11:48 am:
The reason why diseases like the measles were wiped out in America is because for decades if people traveling to America showed any signs of disease they were sent back to wherever they came from. I am well aware that that sounds politically incorrect to most people today but it is the truth. Until we find a vaccine for political correctness all I can say is enjoy your measles.
- Wordslinger - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 11:52 am:
Kelly, how much do you charge people to cross that bridge you live under?
- ChiTown Seven - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 11:59 am:
Never a good idea to trust your kids’ health to politicians and big pharma. As so many politicians are found of saying, “The science is conclusive.” Of course vaccines prevent some diseases. But they also have side effects — and to pretend otherwise is fool-hardy. For instance, the “science is conclusive” that mercury is toxic, especially for kids, and many vaccines have mercury in them. Hello? It’s no secret that mercury has damaging effects on the neurological system.
- Gooner - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 12:01 pm:
Seriously Kelly, you finished fourth. Read your posts, and the reason is obvious.
- MrJM - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 12:01 pm:
“The reason why diseases like the measles were wiped out in America is because for decades if people traveling to America showed any signs of disease they were sent back to wherever they came from.”
Nonsense.
– MrJM
- OneMan - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 12:03 pm:
Ummm. No that isn’t the reason they were eliminated.
Lets us some data….
http://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/graph-us-measles-cases
Take a look at the drop in the rate between 63 and 68, using your thesis that rate dropped because all of sudden we were keeping sick immigrants out?
Is your argument that the introduction of the vaccine was not a causation for the reduction?
But lets use Polio instead
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/polio.html
Again the significant drop off in terms of the number of cases that happened when the inactivated vaccine and then the live oral vaccine appeared are just statistical flukes, it was the prevention of infected immigrants in your book, right?
- ChiTown Seven - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 12:03 pm:
“Hey — the G told me it was a good idea for me to use mercury lightbulbs in my house and wood-decking coated with arsenic, and that those things pose no harm to my kids. Whelp, I guess I better go to Home Depot and stock up.”
- Wordslinger - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 12:03 pm:
Chitown, how about peditricians, are they in on the scam, too? Public health departments? And the media, printing all those lies about how those diseases were eradicated through vaccination?
- William j Kelly - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 12:04 pm:
Wordslinker, what I love the most about hypocrites like you is if this post was about Isis or some other issue you care about your position would be 180 degrees different.
- OneMan - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 12:09 pm:
So Mr. Kelly are you saying that the drop in the rates of diseases after the vaccines came out is unrelated?
- Skeptic - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 12:10 pm:
ChiTown: “Thimerosal has been removed from or reduced to trace amounts in all vaccines routinely recommended for children 6 years of age and younger, with the exception of inactivated influenza vaccine” http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228
Find another out-dated talking point.
- Jocko - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 12:10 pm:
I bet ChiTown has cigarettes and coffee for breakfast…cuz that food pyramid stuff is pure bunk.
The CDC states, “Since 2001, with the exception of some influenza vaccines, thimerosal is not used as a preservative in routinely recommended childhood vaccines.”
- Ron Burgundy - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 12:11 pm:
From the CDC:
Thimerosal
Since 2001, with the exception of some influenza (flu) vaccines, thimerosal is not used as a preservative in routinely recommended childhood vaccines.
Thimerosal is a mercury-containing preservative used in some vaccines and other products since the 1930’s. There is no convincing evidence of harm caused by the low doses of thimerosal in vaccines, except for minor reactions like redness and swelling at the injection site. However, in July 1999, the Public Health Service agencies, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and vaccine manufacturers agreed that thimerosal should be reduced or eliminated in vaccines as a precautionary measure.
Also, nice use of “Big Pharma,” a favorite anti-vaxxer buzzword.
- Jocko - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 12:13 pm:
Skeptic, sorry about that.
This discussion reminds me of parents who use fertility drugs and are reluctant to engage in selective reduction because of “God’s Will”.
- ChiTown Seven - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 12:13 pm:
Wordslinger — did you read my post or are you just choosing to ignore it. Mercury and other toxins in vaccinations are bad for kids, and can have truly bad side effects. The scam is when the G and the pharmas characterize as bible-beating fools parents who don’t want their kids injected with toxins. No one is challenging the notion that vaccines can help prevent the spread of disease. The problem is that vaccines have other ingredients that are dangerous for kids. What part of this don’t you understand? If you really are going to give your kids’ health over to the G and Big Pharma, you’re in for a big surprise. Mercury is bad for humans — just like arsenic is (which the feds permit in pressure treated wood).
- Keyser Soze - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 12:15 pm:
Parents may be immune to forced vacination of their children but they shouldn’t be allowed to send those children to public schools. The cost of home schooling should be their reward.
- Cook County Commoner - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 12:16 pm:
The anti-vac controversy provides a remarkable insight into the level of fatuousness and ignorance that permeates US culture. And the extent to which some pols will pander to it.
The real issue is how people get this way. Maybe it’s the human condition. Our society does not permit the type of aggressive interrogation and investigation needed to get useful data in a short period. Thankfully. But the curious part of me craves an in-depth analysis, in layman’s terms, of how someone gets to the point that he or she dismisses true scientific research and latches on to contrary, unfounded hokum.
- Wordslinger - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 12:16 pm:
Chitown, I think and Kelly should get together for a mind meld.
- How Ironic - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 12:25 pm:
@ChiTown,
Give up the ‘BigPharma’ baloney. Particularly after yesterdays debacle with ‘BigNaturalBSHerbalRemedies’
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/02/03/gnc-target-wal-mart-walgreens-accused-of-selling-fake-herbals/
“…A warning to herbal supplement users: Those store-brand ginkgo biloba tablets you bought may contain mustard, wheat, radish and other substances decidedly non-herbal in nature, but they’re not likely to contain any actual ginkgo biloba.”
Or how about:
“….demanding that they stop selling a number of their dietary supplements, few of which were found to contain the herbs shown on their labels and many of which included potential allergens not identified in the ingredients list.”
How thoughtful of the ‘BigNatural’ movement to provide herbal pills that don’t actually contain any herbs, but rather ground up houseplants, and sawdust.
So ‘organic’ I suppose.
- Responsa - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 12:29 pm:
=they shouldn’t be allowed to send those children to public schools.==
Public school? But what about daycare? What about the babies and young children in daycare who are too young to get vaccinated?–or are only able to get vaccinated in multiple doses because they are so tiny. If these parents follow government recommendations to the letter (see below)their babies are still able to be exposed in daycare from older children.
http://www.vaccines.gov/who_and_when/infants_to_teens/index.html
- Federalist - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 12:46 pm:
This is where the Rand Paul types look looney and are endangering others.
I am not the type for European style state nannyism but disease control is very much what government is about.
- Wordslinger - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 12:47 pm:
Angelo, thanks for the link to the Dr. Donald Duck website.
Before I get my credit card and buy all the wonderful products for sale there that The Man is trying to keep from us, can you answer the question posted in one of the ads?
What do the colors and shapes in my toilet tell me?
- low level - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 12:47 pm:
God also enabled human beings to posses the knowledge to create the vaccines. These people need to get a clue.
- schmakmama - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 1:03 pm:
Keeping unvac kids out of school does nothing. The current outbreak originated in DisneyLand. how you gonna stop that? No exceptions except for health. I can’t believe Mississippi leads the way in this.
- Amalia - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 1:04 pm:
wait, Cutler’s wife? let’s find a way to keep her and the kids away from Illinois. that means you too, Jay.
- VanillaMan - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 1:07 pm:
The argument against being vaccinated is similar to the ones the NRA uses to justify the “the rite to bear arms”.
Get a grip.
The Christian Science church and other groups that have traditionally approached these issues our of a religious angle - have been doing so for over a century. They have had absolutely no effect on the development and near-eradication of contagious diseases throughout the century. There has been NO cases of contagious diseases which began within a conservative religious anti-vax group. There has been absolutely NO media support for their century-long stand.
What has happened is the this ignorant meme had caught on with groups OUTSIDE the traditional anti-vax groups. This ignorant meme caught on among supposedly educated, pop-cultured, supposedly open-minded, “healthy living” liberal groups. When Americans saw Bill Maher, Jenny McCarthy, John Stewart, and other Hollywood celebrities questioning vaccinations, the Political Party of Hollywood Dough, began pandering to them as well. Hillary Clinton is on record saying the same things as Rand Paul or Chris Christie.
No one in pop culture living in Democratic-leaning west coast, gives two figs about what an old Christian Scientist says about anything. If this crap came out of the right wing - it would have been amazing since popular media has written off these sects for four generations and has ignored them as long.
Nope - this baby has legs thanks to the popularity of it among the supposedly well educated, supposedly open-minded, supposedly accepting naturalists, Whole Food, Prius-driving “progressives”.
It is ridiculous to suddenly claim that the groups no one ever gave any credibility to, suddenly has credibility.
- Demoralized - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 1:13 pm:
The whole religious exemption thing is a load of garbage. Let’s just invoke religion for everything we don’t want to do. After all, if we do that and they make us do it anyway that’s a violation of our Constitutional rights. At least that’s what some dopes think.
Vaccinate your dang kids or keep them away from mine. Period.
- Pot calling kettle - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 1:15 pm:
The “letter” is fascinating. If a school receives it, they should ask for clarification: “Do you refuse all injections? Including for pain and antibiotics, & transfusions?” This information needs to be kept on file so that if the child is ever injured the EMTs will know.
- Huh? - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 1:20 pm:
I wonder how many of the anti-virus folk don’t put their kids in a car seat or seat belts.
Having had the childhood diseases of mumps, measles and chicken pox, when it came time for my children to get their shots, there was no question that the girls were going to get jabbed by a needle.
Just as with any thing that gets put into our body, food, booze, water, drugs, etc there can be complications. Here the chances are usually slim for a life threatening complication unless there are allergies involved.
The religious aspect is too nutty. Having been in the belly of the religio-industrial complex, bible verses get taken out of context and interpreted in ways that are whacky.
According to the news, measles had been eliminated in the US, until the outbreak in Disneyland.
- Angry Chicagoan - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 1:21 pm:
Uff da . . typos. “much less toxic and fairly quicly expelled” . . . . and “controversy”, not “controversity.” Sorry folks.
- Angry Chicagoan - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 1:21 pm:
I’m really off on my typing today.
- Wordslinger - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 1:29 pm:
VMan, The Church of Christ, Scientist urges its members to conform with all vaccination laws. You can look it up on their website.
- White Denim - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 1:38 pm:
Hat tip to Vanillaman. President Obama said is on record saying the exact same things as well.
- Transplant - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 1:43 pm:
The current measles scare didn’t start at a public school, it started at an amusement park open to the public.
The anti-vaxxer movement started many years ago, and the un-vaccinated are not just small children and they pose a danger to anyone in public who is too young, or too ill to be vaccinated.
- 47th Ward - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 1:43 pm:
White Denim, maybe you and VanillaMan can share some links with the rest of us, because I, for one, won’t simply take your word for it.
- Newbie - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 1:46 pm:
At this point, whether I am pro vaccine or not, I more fear the angry people out there who are so violent to each other over this, as they most likely are with religion and politics. Keep my kid away from yours if you are that angry at home, because you probably are creating a monster with your emotions and teaching them to crucify others for their choices. Yikes, humans are nuts.
Have not made it through all to see if anyone else mentioned this, but there is what is called delayed vaccinations. It is not black or white. That is what we chose after extensive research on both pros and cons, medical articles and and even reading the inserts to the vaccines that you can request.
Anyway, if you don’t vaccinate, they can catch “it” and spread “it”, if you do vaccinate, they can still carry “it” and spread “it.” I will say, if your kid is vaccinated, then why are you so concerned about non-vaccinated kids? Aren’t yours “protected?” Everyone is unsure here it seems…
- Skeptic - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 1:47 pm:
“There has been NO cases of contagious diseases which began within a conservative religious anti-vax group.” Of course not. Diseases aren’t started in a group, they already exist. Or did you mean to phrase that differently?
- Upton Sinclair's Ghost - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 1:49 pm:
If William Kelly is suggesting we wall off Orange County and put border control agents in place, I may be in favor.
- walker - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 1:50 pm:
Children might get injured if they leave the home, so we’re gong to ignore that smoke alarm and stay inside.
Measles kills.
- Skeptic - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 1:51 pm:
“There has been NO cases of contagious…” See: https://books.google.com/books?id=rFkSdLs6-PgC&lpg=PT59&ots=Jj4trgujDO&dq=jehovah’s%20witness%20measles%20outbreak&pg=PT59#v=onepage&q=jehovah’s%20witness%20measles%20outbreak&f=false that documents there have been several.
- Soccermom - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 2:11 pm:
Kelly, let’s keep those Nicaraguans out.
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.IMM.MEAS/countries
- Jake From Elwood - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 2:31 pm:
This issue is personal. I have a son with autism born during the “McCarthy Med-Scare years” and yes, he was vaccinated. Two years later, his younger sister was also vaccinated. It is the responsible thing to do. I cannot understand parents who would invite the measles, polio, TB or rubella into their homes when it is avoidable with minimal risk.
Those who believe otherwise are simply ignorant about the difference between correlation and causation.
- dupage dan - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 2:40 pm:
=== - Del Clinkton - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 11:37 am:
The argument against being vaccinated is similar to the ones the NRA uses to justify the “the rite to bear arms” ===
Just what does the NRA have to do with vaccinations? Nothing. Then what is the point of your post? Nothing. Then what credence should we give to your comments. Nothing.
- dupage dan - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 2:42 pm:
Del Clinkton is being nominated by the Yellow Brick Road Society for Strawman of the Day Award.
- ArchPundit - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 2:47 pm:
—Kelly, let’s keep those Nicaraguans out
Don’t forget the Salvadorans
- ArchPundit - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 2:51 pm:
=== For instance, the “science is conclusive” that mercury is toxic, especially for kids, and many vaccines have mercury in them. Hello? It’s no secret that mercury has damaging effects on the neurological system.
Mercury (in the form of thimerasol) is in flu vaccines and one version of the DTaP. Those levels are below any background mercury you would get from being in a country with coal plants.
MMR which is the relevant vaccine with measles never had thimerosol.
- ArchPundit - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 2:55 pm:
===Hillary Clinton is on record saying the same things as Rand Paul or Chris Christie.
Well, no.
http://news.yahoo.com/hillary-clinton-vaccination-science-is-clear-132305680.html
Would you support a federal right for families and individuals to choose for themselves which vaccines they will use?
As President, I will support efforts to ensure that vaccines are safe and effective, including
independent reviews and large-scale studies. All Americans should have access to accurate and comprehensive information about vaccinations.
Perhaps you know of a different statement, but that’s not what Christie or Paul said, but that was from the 2008 campaign. She could have known the science better, but she didn’t say parents should decide.
- Under Further Review - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 2:56 pm:
@Soccermom:
Cherry picking your immunizations statistics is not good public health policy.
Nicaragua has a good immunization percentage, but the same cannot be said of certain other nations in Central and South America (the reported percentages from Mexico and Venezuela surprised me and not in a good way).
Since the immigrants arriving are usually fleeing poverty, so I suspect some did not visit the doctor before moving. If the numbers are accurate about one in three Haitians is unvaccinated. That’s scary.
There are plenty of countries on the list provided that have too many unimmunized persons.
The weirdest nation listed with a low percentage was Austria. That was an outlier puzzler.
Thanks for the supplying the chart.
- ArchPundit - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 2:57 pm:
===John Stewart,
Well no. He has done at least two different bits on The Daily Show making fun of anti-vaccination efforts. One was last night. Oops.
- ArchPundit - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 2:59 pm:
—Cherry picking your immunizations statistics is not good public health policy.
The United States is not even in the top 100 countries in percent of kids vaccinated.
- 47th Ward - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 3:02 pm:
Thanks Archpundit. I had a feeling I’d be waiting a long time to get any info from those two clowns.
It’s fun to make stuff up, but it doesn’t help the conversation very much.
- vaccinistan - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 3:08 pm:
I choose not to get a flu shot
I can choose not to immunize on a case by case basis. Polio? Fine. Your kid is more likely to fie crossing the street than by measles.
No do we take keys from everyone else because your child could cross the street? Certainly not. Yeah I’m gonna be labeled a “dope”. Fine. The greatest minds always resort to name calling. Take your kids and move to vaccinatistan.I prefer the freedom to choose.
- Demoralized - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 3:12 pm:
==I prefer the freedom to choose.==
Fine. Do so. But suffer the consequences when your kids is rightfully kept out of school or asked not to go to certain public places. If you are good with that go for it.
- Demoralized - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 3:14 pm:
“kids are”
- 47th Ward - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 3:21 pm:
Sorry, I meant to include this for White Denim and VanillaMan:
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=197&invol=11
- Under Further Review - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 3:24 pm:
Vaccinistan:
I had a neighbor (now deceased) who contracted polio as an adult. When her husband died, she had to raise two daughters while using a motorize wheelchair (one of the first which was made for her by a relative who had a manufacturing plant).
It was suspected that the woman caught the disease while visiting a children’s summer camp.
Cardinal Francis George walked with a life long limp as the result of polio.
Check out an old movie on TCM or DVD called “The Killer That Stalked New York” and see how rapidly small pox can spread in a major population center.
The medical crisis in that docudrama was caused by an infected traveler who returned to the USA from the Caribbean. Small pox was so rare in the States that the serum had stopped being manufactured. Suddenly, it had to be mass produced overnight.
- Skeptic - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 3:27 pm:
“I prefer the freedom to choose.” Fine, I choose to buy the house next door to yours and sprinkle radioactive plutonium dust all along the fence line. And by your logic, there’s not a darned thing wrong with doing that.
- ChiTown Seven - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 3:29 pm:
Hey, Team. What’s up with your blind willingness to accept and parrot the talking points of some government officials (the FDA and the CDC), but not others? God forbid you should use critical thought and analysis when it comes to FDA and CDC proclamations! But in point of fact, the CDC is telling a big lie when it says that child vaccinations don’t have mercury in them. The truth is that mercury is still in child vaccines, and the the FDA still permits that practice. What’s changed is that, under FDA rules, vaccine manufacturers do not have to include thimerosal on the label as an ingredient unless it is used as a preservative. In other words, if thimerosal is used in the vaccine but not as a preservative, the FDA permits the manufacturers to label the vaccine “thimerosal-free.” So, don’t be fooled by the term “thimerosal free.” In any event, if you check out the full list of ingredients for the DTaP vaccine, the DT vaccine, the Hib (ACTHib, TriHIBit) vaccine, and the Meningococcal vaccine, you’ll see that mercury (thimerosal) is still in them. And if you’re too lazy to do the research, ask your doctor directly: can you assure me that the Td or the DTaP vaccine is fully mercury free? They usually hem and haw and squirm when they’re asked that question.
It might be tough for your to believe that bureaucrats in the federal government would be misleading you, but it’s time to grow up.
”
- Demoralized - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 3:33 pm:
ChiTown
Fine. You too can join those who don’t want to get your kids vaccinated. And, you too should have the luxury of seeing your kids banned from schools or other public places. Because that’s what I’d do.
Fair?
- ChiTown Seven - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 3:37 pm:
Demoralized — How about you join the campaign to eliminate mercury and other toxins from child vaccinations? Fair? A State Senate committee had a hearing on this some time ago (I think the bill was sponsored by Susan Garrett), and you should have seen Big Pharma come shouldering into the fray. Don’t kid yourself that this isn’t a political issue — one that could be addressed by the states, by the way.
- Skeptic - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 3:38 pm:
“blind willingness to accept and parrot the talking points” Because they’re not just “talking points”, it’s science. Science is a formal process where facts are proven out. You don’t believe what those organizations have to say? The look at their studies and find what’s wrong with them. That’s what “peer-review” is all about. The Bible and Jenny McCarthy are not science.
“They usually hem and haw and squirm when they’re asked that question.” Is that because they don’t want to answer the question or because they don’t their answer misinterpreted. “Does this have mecury?” “Yes, but it’s in a form that is not shown to be harmful.” “See?? I TOLD YOU IT HAD MERCURY!” ChiTown: Tell me you wouldn’t react exactly like that to such an answer.
- Anonlurker - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 3:39 pm:
Chi @ 3:29
-And if you’re too lazy to do the research-
Please provide the link, if it’s not too much work.
FWIW, I’m don’t believe your ramblings.
- Under Further Review - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 3:50 pm:
I used Merbromin (mercurochrome)as a child. I survived.
Let’s rely upon the doctors and scientists.
Some of the quacks spouting on this topic are one step removed from banning the use of fluoridated drinking water because it will interfere with their precious bodily fluids.
- ChiTown Seven - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 3:58 pm:
Skeptic - you seem to be a little obtuse. Do you really mean that proclamations from the CDC and the FDA are the equivalent of “science”? It’s not a complicated issue, so try to bear with me: many child vaccines have mercury in them. That’s a fact.
As requested by anonlurkcer, here’s a link on that fact from an organization that doesn’t push any viewpoint on vaccines:
http://vaccines.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=005206
Take a look at the link and note the use in children’s vaccines of Thimerosal, which includes mercury.
Mercury is a heavy metal that is harmful to the neurological system — especially to systems that are young and small. That’s a fact too. Do a little research if you don’t believe me.
The third fact is that the human body cannot rid itself of mercury as it does other toxins.
I am pretty neutral on the issue of whether kids should be vaccinated — but I absolutely understand the reluctance of parents who don’t want mercury injected into their infants and young children.
As I’ve noted above, one solution is for Illinois to speak to vaccinations that don’t have mercury in them. As long as the state’s don’t distinguish between those that do and those that don’t, the pharmas won’t mend their ways.
- Wordslinger - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 4:01 pm:
–vaccinistan–
Please tell me you live in LA and are just trolling the topic.
- State employee - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 4:04 pm:
“State statute regarding exemptions from immunization…”
Just a point of clarification, Rich: you linked to a rule, not a statute. Both are law, but they’re different kinds of law.
- William j Kelly - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 4:05 pm:
Archpudnit, let’s try an experiment, pack up all your measles and try to sneak into any country on earth other than America and let us know how it turns out.
- Upton Sinclair's Ghost - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 4:15 pm:
To Chitown Seven’s point
=Take a look at the link and note the use in children’s vaccines of Thimerosal, which includes mercury.=
You’re not looking deep enough at the ingredients. Thimerosal is an organic compound (ethylmercury)that breaks down quickly in the body. The inorganic compound of mercury (methylmercury) is what can build up in the body over a longer term and is dangerous in high concentrations.
You need to do more than simply see “mercury” and freak out.
- ArchPundit - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 4:17 pm:
===Archpudnit, let’s try an experiment, pack up all your measles and try to sneak into any country on earth other than America and let us know how it turns out.
This makes no sense whatsoever. Let’s recap. you claim measles are coming from developing countries that in many cases have greater rates of vaccination. So someone coming from a country with better vaccination rates is bringing in to the United States a disease that is less vaccinated against here.
- Skeptic - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 4:17 pm:
ChiTown: The CDC’s and FDA’s “proclamations” (a poor word, but you used it) are made based on scientific studies. If you’re just going to blindly (again, your word) ignore science, then there’s no hope for this discussion. As soon as someone peer-reviews the Bible, Jenny McCarthy or your ramblings, that’s what I’m going to go by.
Yes, thimerisol contains mercury. As mentioned multiple times before, the amount of thimerisol (which is not all mercury in the first place) is zero or negligible in all the vaccines we are discussing in this post. EVEN IF THERE IS mercury in there, thimerisol is a mercury compound which is NOT treated by the body the same way as elemental mercury. In fact, thimerisol (an ethyl-mercury deriviative) is removed from the blood and body more quickly than the more common methyl-mercury compounds. So while your assertion that mercury is poisonous does not necessarily imply that thimerisol is harmful. Take for example, Chlorine. Drink chlorine, you die. Mix that chlorine with some sodium (and stand back because the results are spectacular) and you get stuff you sprinkle on your fries. So are you going to scream and shout because table salt has chlorine (which has been proven to be toxic) in it? Of course not. Why is thimerisol (which has been proven to be not harmful at the doses we’re talking about) be any different?
- ArchPundit - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 4:20 pm:
===Hey, Team. What’s up with your blind willingness to accept and parrot the talking points of some government officials (the FDA and the CDC), but not others? God forbid you should use critical thought and analysis when it comes to FDA and CDC proclamations! But in point of fact, the CDC is telling a big lie when it says that child vaccinations don’t have mercury in them. The truth is that mercury is still in child vaccines, and the the FDA still permits that practi
So show me some analysis showing mercury in detectable amounts in vaccines other than the flu vaccine.
- ArchPundit - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 4:22 pm:
===zero or negligible in all the vaccines we are discussing
and much lower than exposure to the environment would deliver.
- William j Kelly - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 4:28 pm:
Pudnit, the fact that America has gone from measles free to measles Mecca should tell you something but what do I know I am just a guy who believes that first responsibility of government is to protect the America people.
- Soccermom - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 4:31 pm:
Archpundit — good to have you weighing in.
- ArchPundit - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 4:36 pm:
===Pudnit, the fact that America has gone from measles free to measles Mecca should tell you something but what do I know I am just a guy who believes that first responsibility of government is to protect the America people.
So, which is greater. 95% or 91%? If those are applied to vaccination rates where which place is the more likely place for an outbreak to occur?
- ArchPundit - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 4:38 pm:
I came for the Schock thread and stuck around for the vaccines.
- Demoralized - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 4:39 pm:
@ChiTown
Are you a doctor? Scientist? What are your credentials to speak so authoritatively on what the FDA or CDC says? I’d like to know who I’m dealing with.
Do you take medications for anything? Ever read the potential side effects? You can’t take anything that doesn’t have some risk. Doesn’t mean I think we should just pack our drugs with things that can kill you, but I’ll choose to trust my doctor when I get advice on vaccines.
- Gooner - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 4:41 pm:
Kelly, if you are blaming Mexicans for the fact that ultra-liberal suburban moms and bunker-dwelling tea partiers are not following basic science, you are not protecting America. You are just whining and refusing to accept personal responsibility.
But go back to blaming foreigners for all your problems, and then when you finish 8th in your next campaign, you can scratch your head wondering why.
- William j Kelly - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 4:41 pm:
Snap! You got me pudtwit! I am sorry 95% of what? can we all just get along? Preferably Without measles!
- Carl Nyberg - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 5:02 pm:
Why are religious objections given more weight than objections based on other grounds? This seems to be a First Amendment problem.
- William j Kelly - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 5:33 pm:
*gooner
- William j Kelly - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 5:48 pm:
Gooner, FYI, your repeated references to Mexicans were offensive to me and i am sure did not go unnoticed by others.
- Gooner - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 6:10 pm:
Kelly, you were offended?
You blame them for all of our problems, and you are offended because I pointed out?
- Gooner - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 6:14 pm:
Kelly, Usually, your little antics are just sort of tedious. They are an entertaining cry for attention.
Today though you crossed a line when you blamed immigrants for our problems.
You went for goofball to bigot, and the rest of us are tired of it.
You want to go challenge Levin to a fight? Be my guest. But when you demonize Mexicans and other like you did today, you cross a line. Today your comments were not just goofy. They were offensive.
- Graduated College Student - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 6:26 pm:
ChiTown, you probably ingested more mercury the last time you had seafood than you would get in any vaccination treatment.
- William j Kelly - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 6:27 pm:
Gooner, you are the one who made repeated references to Mexicans not me.
- Graduated College Student - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 6:29 pm:
Also, does anyone else see the ironic humor in a guy with a last name of Kelly complaining about immigrants being a disease-carrying threat to the country?
- Gooner - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 6:30 pm:
Were you referencing the Irish, Kelly?
Tell us who you were referencing, lad.
You made the comments. Don’t blame me for pointing out that you acted like a bigot today.
You crossed that line. Man up and take responsibility for your own comments.
- Gooner - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 6:32 pm:
Billy, when you wrote “Secure the borders, dope.” were you talking about Canada?
You wrote it. Act like you are the tough guy who keeps challenging people to fights and take some responsibility.
- William j Kelly - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 6:34 pm:
I think I’ll just excuse myself and let you two fight over who is more politically correct, inaccurate and ultimately incapable of being any service to anyone.
- Gooner - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 6:39 pm:
That’s a nice tactical retreat, Billy. It sure beats explaining your posts.You are smarter than I though. Well done, lad.
- Kelly fan - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 7:09 pm:
Thank God Kelly isn’t afraid to say what you are all too afraid to say.
- Michelle Flaherty - Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 9:56 pm:
This makes me wish the internet had never been invented.
- erick - Thursday, Feb 5, 15 @ 8:05 am:
as someone who has a family member who was grievously harmed by a reaction to the MERCURY preservative used in vaccines given to 6 MONTH OLD CHILDREN SO THAT THE PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRY CAN SAVE MONEY i will tell you that there is real science behind people’s fears, and note that the UK has already admitted that they knew this would cause problems for individual children, but went ahead anyway to “preserve the herd”…sickening just take the MERCURY out of the vaccines and most of the problems disappear
- Michelle Flaherty - Thursday, Feb 5, 15 @ 8:31 am:
Thanks for reinforcing my point erick
- Anonymous - Thursday, Feb 5, 15 @ 8:31 am:
erick - the mercury has been out of all vaccines given to 6 months old (except some versions of the flu shot) for more than 10 years.
- GraduatedCollegeStudent - Thursday, Feb 5, 15 @ 8:51 am:
===as someone who has a family member who was grievously harmed by a reaction to the MERCURY preservative used in vaccines given to 6 MONTH OLD CHILDREN SO THAT THE PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRY CAN SAVE MONEY i will tell you that there is real science behind people’s fears, and note that the UK has already admitted that they knew this would cause problems for individual children, but went ahead anyway to “preserve the herd”…sickening just take the MERCURY out of the vaccines and most of the problems disappear ===
OK, I’ll bite. How was your child harmed, and how do you know it is from the mercury in the vaccine? (As opposed to the far greater mercury concentrations found in the water, air, and soil of most metropolitan areas.)
- erick - Thursday, Feb 5, 15 @ 2:49 pm:
she started having spasmodic epileptic seizures THREE days after she received the first set of vaccinations..an otherwise perfectly healthy child to that point, there is a clear chronological correlation between the giving of the vaccines and the onset of this brain destroying condition..and check the web, as I said the UK has already admitted that they knew this would cause harm, and furthermore, after twelve years of legal wrangling, an anti vaccine group just managed to have the FDA release the results of a study done in the 1990s on over 300,000 children that showed a significant increase in autism and psuedo autism in children to whom the mercury laden vaccines had been given..just sayin
- erick - Thursday, Feb 5, 15 @ 2:51 pm:
and furthermore, the mercury present in the enviroment is not being DIRECTLY INJECTED INTO THE BODIES OF 6 WEEK OLD BABIES, thus bypassing whatever possible defenses the body may have…