Question of the day
Monday, Mar 16, 2015 - Posted by Rich Miller
* From the RRStar…
Illinois requires doctors, lawyers, beauticians, teachers and judges to keep their occupational knowledge up to date. But the men and women who make our laws and ordinances aren’t required to know anything at all.
State Sen. Dave Syverson, R-Rockford, wants to do something about that by requiring state legislators, aldermen and county board members to take economics courses after they win elections.
* The Question: If you had your druthers, what other areas of study would be required of newly elected legislators? Please explain your response. Thanks.
- Former Merit Comp Slave - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 11:56 am:
Um constitutional law
- Mama - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 11:58 am:
Illinois Laws
- Not Rich - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 11:59 am:
how about simple MATH.. 60 and 30 wins.. everything else falls in place..
- Gone, but not forgotten - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 11:59 am:
Ethics. Oh yeah, they already get that training.
- Ahoy! - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 11:59 am:
Math, just basic math would be helpful. Neither side seems to understand it when it comes to budgets.
- Mama - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 12:01 pm:
Political Science 101?
- Mama - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 12:01 pm:
Accounting?
- sss - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 12:02 pm:
As arbitrary as economics is, I present the following curriculum:
- public health
- Spanish
- labor law
- criminal law
- criminal Justice
- healthcare administration
- elementary education
- secondary education
- public administration
- public finance and debt
- two-dimensional chess
- tic-tac-toe
You know, things more to do with their day-to-day job.
- Anthony - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 12:02 pm:
Cause and Effect. What it is and how it works.
- Runbikeswim1 - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 12:03 pm:
Constitutional Law and public speaking. The first one is pretty self-explanatory. The 2nd one is something that both parties could benefit from. The taste of leather shoe is the preferred after dinner mint for many Illinois politicians
- Michelle Flaherty - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 12:04 pm:
Syverson’s sneaky attempt to bring back legislative scholarships and make them for legislators.
- Six Degrees of Separation - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 12:06 pm:
Actuarial science, to have some background on what it takes to properly fund a pension. The warnings were out for the last 40 years, but did anyone pay attention other than a few former legislators? To his credit, former state Sen. Lauzen, a CPA, while somewhat goofy on some issues, understood the implications of what was going on and his votes reflected it.
- Anonymous - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 12:06 pm:
Yeah, I think members of the GA and the Governor could use some rudimentary con law education. Let’s get rid of the whole “I don’t know, I’m not an attorney” excuse for trying to violate the constitution.
- Belle - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 12:06 pm:
Some basics just because I think they should know what they’re doing unlike some of the Aldermen:
IL Law
Math
Constitutional Law
- Griz - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 12:09 pm:
Ethics Standards and Financial Disclosure
- Abe the Babe - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 12:10 pm:
All of them should be forced to follow jack franks around for a week and then they should be promptly instructed to do the opposite of everything he does.
- Arizona Bob - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 12:11 pm:
Accounting, Finance, Compensation, curriculum development, Transportation Project Evaluation (cost benefit analysis), Entrepreneurship, and complete readings of Machiavelli and History of the Catholic Church under the Borgias.
BTW, it’s my opinion that the vast majority of “professional development” classes are an incredible waste of time and money. I have to take 15 hours per year of certified classes from a wide variety offered whether it applies directly to my practice or not.
If it had serious purpose, there would be specific areas that needed to be updated based upon stated job responsibilities, but it is a rare state program that deals with such specificity.
It just seems to be a money making scheme made for local colleges and universities to create continuing education demand. Some states actually require that certain PDHs be taken from THEIR universities.
This continuing education requirement has virtually no requirement that vital issues and changes be covered.
Like I said, this is little more than a bureaucratic waste of time and money. Professionals will keep current to perform their jobs competently, while those who aren’t so professional can take the most basic classes to meet the shallow requirements.
- Liberty - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 12:16 pm:
They should spend a few weeks as a teacher since they want to run education.
- Michelle Flaherty - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 12:18 pm:
OMG! I find myself in agreement with AZ Bob.
- illinoised - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 12:21 pm:
Ethics (because the current training and test are ridiculously easy and do not deter unethical behavior) and Public Sector Accounting (many legislators appear to not be able to figure out our main issue is not enough revenue).
- thechampaignlife - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 12:22 pm:
Logic & Reasoning.
Oh, and maybe require a credit score and background check for candidates.
- RNUG - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 12:22 pm:
Constitutional and contract law … no explanation needed.
- train111 - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 12:23 pm:
If its for DC, then manners and behavior, since we can’t seem to get anybody who acts above the age of 2.
- RNUG - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 12:25 pm:
One additional thought - Conflict Resolution … again, self evident reason
- Keyser Soze - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 12:29 pm:
Philosophy; first Logic, then Ethics. Parenthetically, both are tough courses. Some may not pass.
- Sue - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 12:30 pm:
Honest services fraud
- Finally Out (and now very glad to be) - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 12:34 pm:
As current and retired employees will tell you, the ethics training overall was a waste of time and money. That leaves the obvious, agreeing with RNUG and others:
Constitutional Law
Passing a law and asking the courts if it’s constitutional should make it obvious they need some learnin’ as King Bruce would say.
- WhoKnew - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 12:35 pm:
Bureaucracy 101 – if they’re gonna’ sustain it, they might as well do it efficiently!
- Union Man - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 12:37 pm:
Simple math!! Expenditures
- Union Man - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 12:38 pm:
Expenditures must be equal to or less then revenue!
- Nobody - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 12:39 pm:
statesmanship
- illinifan - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 12:40 pm:
Before they start their classes they need to pass a hearing test and reading comprehension exam. Then onto Logic, US and IL constitution, ethics. More importantly after they take the classes they need to pass the exams with a 90% pass rate.
- Anonymous - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 12:42 pm:
Ethics and contract law
- facts are stubborn things - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 12:44 pm:
Agree with RNUG, but would add requirement for Eric Madiar to write the constitution curriculum. On the economics/tax/budget course I would require that Ralph Martire write the curriculum. As important as the course is who writes the material presented in the course.
- MrJM - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 12:48 pm:
Sen. Syverson should teach a class in (political) theater.
– MrJM
- Chicago Cynic - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 12:53 pm:
Clearly basic math is the most urgent need for all elected officials.
- ah HA - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 12:55 pm:
Ethics, Constitutional Law, Economics, and Government Accounting…
- Arizona Bob - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 12:56 pm:
@Michele Flaherty
=OMG! I find myself in agreement with AZ Bob.=
Michele, this could be the start of a beautiful friendship!LOL
- Sunshine - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 12:58 pm:
Common Sense. Unfortunately that one cannot be taught but must be acquired through practiced observation, reason, and experience.
How to remove one’s foot from one’s mouth, or an alternate course of how to remove ones head from the place the sun doesn’t shine. .
Any ethics course has already been lost….if they don’t possess it. A refresher course on ‘for the good of all versus for the benefit of a few’.
- Alice Keister - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 1:03 pm:
Particle Physics
- lil' enchililada - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 1:03 pm:
Agree with common sense. Example:
When you hire a professional to run your campaign, why not put some thought process into who you hire to run your district office. If you are newly elected and your staff has no experience, it is probably a problem.
- Alice Keister - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 1:11 pm:
If common sense was a prerequisite for serving in the legislature, they would all be Democrats…
- hisgirlfriday - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 1:12 pm:
Just what economics course would meet his approval? would his proposal just lead to taxpayer funded junk science like the Laffer curve being taught by a wing of the Illinois policy institute?
- Wordslinger - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 1:15 pm:
Acting.
Those scenery-chewing diva performances on the floor are brutal.
- zatoichi - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 1:21 pm:
Semi Truck driving license that requires at least one complete run from Chicago to Oblong to Vienna to Galena and then Springfield. 8 hour max road time a day.
- Carl Nyberg - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 1:27 pm:
Economics is largely ideology masquerading as a scientific discipline.
Studying the US & Illinois Constitutions makes more sense.
Studying ethics is probably a waste. You know who made ethics courses mandatory? Rod Blagojevich.
My top priority for public officials to learn about is racism.
Racism is deeply rooted in US society and it’s avoided in schools. To the extent Corporate Media discusses racism… it’s done to avoid offending White people who have profited from racism.
Forcing public officials to study the power imbalances in society and how they affect so many day-to-day things. This would be useful.
- Carl Nyberg - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 1:29 pm:
I suppose it would be useful to have a list: “20 laws most frequently violated by elected officials”
1. If it’s a cash payment between $5-10K, it’s a trap set by the FBI.
- Millennium - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 1:33 pm:
Charles Wheeler’s Illinois Government and Politics class at UIS. It was perfect combination of Illinois Constitutional history, present day analysis of issues, and oh the lessons learned in Wheeler’s stories of the statehouse.
- Truthteller - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 1:38 pm:
With all of the challenges facing this state, this is Dave Syverson’s big legislative initiative? Unbelievable.
- illini - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 1:38 pm:
Not much more I can ad - all excellent suggestions, but where will this go! But what happens if they fail the class?
- jerry 101 - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 1:41 pm:
I think some social worker curriculum would also be helpful. Maybe an internship for newly elected officials at a social service agency.
Force them to be exposed to the less fortunate in society and see if they can learn a bit of empathy. Just a month should do.
Also, each legislator should do a month-long internship in any state agency to which they will be tasked with oversight via their committee assignment. Let them find out what its like to be the boots on the ground. This wouldn’t just apply to new legislators, but to anyone receiving a new committee assignment.
Yup, when pigs fly.
- Fun with Numbers - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 1:49 pm:
Jerry 101 nailed it!
- VanillaMan - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 1:50 pm:
They desperately need courses regarding union law.
- Langhorne - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 1:54 pm:
Neurosurgery and aerospace engineering.
Or maybe “your individual rights when being questioned by the FBI or an asst US Atty. ” (zeke used to advise new members to have their lawyer present)
Ok, seriously: public finance, budgeting, and Illinois constitutional law. The new members’ conference does a pretty good job in the time allowed. Committee work helps. So does serving on commissions like JCAR, COGFA, audit commission.
Unneeded bill
- Learning the Ropes - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 1:55 pm:
Coursework pursuant to the committees they serve on. 1) it makes them more knowledgeable about the subject matter they are supposed to specialize in anyway. 2) it may reduce these giant 20+ member committees.
- Alice Keister - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 2:00 pm:
==but where will this go==
Syverson gets to tell his base that Democrats killed his Bill requiring basic economics class for legislators. Republicans go online and make dumb postings about Democrats.
- Wordslinger - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 2:01 pm:
Syverson was one of the deep thinkers who gave the Illinois GOP Alan Keyes.
I’d suggest a number of courses for him, but I doubt they’d do any good.
- Langhorne - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 2:05 pm:
Now that I read the full article (sorry) it is actually insulting. I don’t think its like minded members of his minority caucus he wants to “educate”, it’s the other side–the social workers, teachers, govt employees (so much for coming up through the ranks). Nothing stops him from hosting seminars for his caucus. This is the best he could come up with after two years of thinking about it? He is the one who needs a tutorial.
- Langhorne - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 2:07 pm:
Collective bargaining in the public sector
- Well okay then - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 2:19 pm:
Alchemy
- one of the 35 - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 2:27 pm:
1.Introductory altruism.
2.Elective office as a temporary sabbatical from your real job.
- south side - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 2:28 pm:
Skip the ethics course. Don’t think the corruption is from lack of knowledge. “If only I had known it was wrong to take the cash for writing a letter.”
- walker - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 2:35 pm:
Syerson first, for a real world economics course. He personifies mythical Econ thinking.
For the rest arithmetic and illinois history.
- Demoralized - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 3:04 pm:
Given Leader Durkin’s comments about revenue, I’d say legislators need training in math.
- Jake From Elwood - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 3:11 pm:
How about a field trip to the various prisons of the area to see where some of our governors and assembly members have spent some free time. Vandalia might be a good location for an ethics class.
- RNUG - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 3:17 pm:
- Carl Nyberg -
At least at the current time, I think the discrimination is more socioeconomic, i.e., class based rather than race based.
- Ghost - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 3:27 pm:
The open meetings act, foia and constitutional law of course. It would be nice if some elected officials followed these
- nixit71 - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 3:46 pm:
Cost/Benefit Analysis and Prioritization
CBA will teach them how to assess their projects. Prioritization will show them how to focus their finite resources on what is truly important.
- Under Further Review - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 3:54 pm:
How to tell time and set clocks. The Illinois General Assembly has sometimes performed magic after midnight on the last days of the legislative sessions.
- Enemy of the State - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 3:56 pm:
First, all GA members must score 80% or better on all the testd required of public school students. All levels included. Repeat until achieved.
Second, successfully complete all events from the Monty Python skit, “Upper Class Twit of the Year”. Repeat as needed.
- Anonymous - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 4:18 pm:
Unless someone or a group can afford to bring suit, all laws are enforceable until ruled otherwise. Who has that kind of time or resources? If pensions weren’t such a hornet’s nest, I doubt the new law would ever have been challenged.
It’s not Constitutional Law, but the hubris in passing laws with the knowledge 99% of them (that’s an unresearched % on my part) will never be challenged.
- Amalia - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 4:18 pm:
economics. jeez, please. basic fiscal matters like budgeting 101, how taxation at multiple levels works, revenue flow to and from other jurisdictions. transportation responsibilities. demographics and geography of the State of Illinois. and based on Schock, ethics training is needed in greater quantity.
- Responsa - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 4:54 pm:
Illinois geography, U.S. and state history and basic math
- Gooner - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 4:57 pm:
Auto racing.
Right now, to my knowledge Al Riley is the ONLY member of the House or Senate who can discuss the history and present status of open wheel racing (both in the U.S. and foreign countries). That number is far too low.
If this State is to thrive, we need more members with a deep knowledge of this fascinating field.
- Anon - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 4:57 pm:
Wouldn’t it be easier to just require Mensa membership? (As if!)
- Gone, but not forgotten - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 5:08 pm:
Okay, I have to say it–if they’re in Congress, Interior Decorating 101 — based on the jobs that Schock and Triple J have done recently.
- Smitty Irving - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 5:57 pm:
Constitutional Law - majority rule with minority rights. Simple majority rule was established when Cromwell and Parliament lopped off King Charles I’s head.
- jake - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 6:06 pm:
Unbelievable. Taking the issue more seriously than it perhaps deserves, there is a lot of merit to a diverse legislature that has read a lot of different books, had a lot of different life histories, and taken a lot of different courses. So no, the only common training for legislators should be the mechanics of how Springfield works.
- RNUG - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 9:01 pm:
- facts are stubborn things - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 12:44 pm:
Your additions definitely improve my comment.
- Anonymous - Monday, Mar 16, 15 @ 10:01 pm:
Random drug testing for all politicians,just like everyone else does.
- doedoa - Tuesday, Mar 17, 15 @ 5:47 am:
MATH AND ETHICS
- 27+ Yr State Employee - Tuesday, Mar 17, 15 @ 5:55 am:
Jerry, You read my mind. State lawmakers up to and incliding the Governor should be required to spend a meaningful period of time interning at a State agency, or even simply shadowing a State Employee to understand how their decisions impact the agencies. Considering how woefully understaffed agencies are these days and the exponentially increasing workload resulting from laws designed to micromanage our daily processes which results in redundant and superfluous paperwork, approvals, and reports, ONE WEEK would be sufficient time to make them run screaming back to their own offices.