Question of the day
Tuesday, Apr 14, 2015 - Posted by Rich Miller
* WUIS…
A proposal in the Illinois House that would require all state vehicles to be manufactured in North America sounds patriotic, but some groups say it would hurt Illinois businesses.
The Department of Transportation and the Illinois’ Manufacturers Association are among those who oppose House Bill 3438. Randy Nehrt of the Illinois Chamber of Commerce says this could actually hurt Illinois businesses, especially those that supply parts to car manufacturers in Mexico.
“The bill actually has the real potential to harm Illinois businesses,” he said. “It also strains relationships with Illinois’ trading partner in Mexico.”
The proposal says Illinois would only be allowed to purchase or lease North American-made vehicles, but doesn’t include Mexico.
* Alton Telegraph…
The idea behind the bill is nothing new — it has been brought up in various forms in the Illinois Legislature several times in the past. This time, it has been approved by the House Labor Committee and lawmakers will consider the proposal after returning next week from spring recess.
The immediate problem is that many of these fleet vehicles are chosen based on important specific criteria and performance. For example, the Caprice is a long-standing favorite of law enforcement agencies and is the only full-size police cruiser on the market. But it is substantially built in Australia by General Motors’ subsidiary Holden. It’s a similar situation with the workhorse Silverado, which would be off the market under the legislation.
* But…
The bill is supported by labor, including the AFL-CIO, but opposed by the Illinois Manufacturers Association and the Illinois Chamber of Commerce. […]
Smiddy points to a General Motors police car made in Australia. Wouldn’t requiring North American final assembly give GM an incentive to build that police car in the U.S., Smiddy asks, noting Ford builds its own police car offering in Chicago.
Smiddy said he knows there’s no guarantee assembly jobs would necessarily land at UAW-represented plants in North America or newly opened ones in the U.S, but he thinks the state should add incentive for automakers to assemble in the U.S.
When domestic or foreign-owned makers open plants in the U.S. he said, American communities benefit.
“We’re trying to help out the American economy, not the Australian economy or Mexican economy,” Smiddy said.
* The Question: Should the state of Illinois be required to only purchase or lease North American-made vehicles? Take the poll and then explain your answer in comments, please.
survey software
- Stones - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 2:25 pm:
Difficult today to quantify what exactly a “North American-made vehicle” is. Is a Honda Civic made in Greensburg, Indiana any less American than a Chevy manufactured in Australia? Where are the parts manufactured?
- Ducky LaMoore - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 2:26 pm:
Yes, and eliminate Canada. Just make it American-made.
- Nobody - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 2:27 pm:
Made or assembled?
- TGS - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 2:28 pm:
Interestingly, a lot of “American” vehicles are manufactured at least in part, in Mexico. I think the Chevy Caprice, Ford Explorer, and many other common fleet vehicles have some connection to Mexico. This would be the already broke State requiring itself to pay more money and having less of a selection when buying fleet vehicles.
- MrJM - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 2:28 pm:
“It also strains relationships with Illinois’ trading partner in Mexico.”
Golly, I sure hope they don’t decide to peel away U.S. jobs or drive down Americans’ wages…
– MrJM
- Montrose - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 2:30 pm:
All Teslas from here on out.
- 47th Ward - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 2:31 pm:
Um, isn’t Mexico still a part of North America?
No. No. No.
- x ace - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 2:33 pm:
Yes - find the C of C response illogical
- pundent - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 2:33 pm:
The notion of a “made in America” car is a misnomer. At best about the only thing that you can say is that a car is “assembled” in America. And even then it’s likely made from parts sourced from around the globe. And most of those that proudly champion “buy American” would unknowingly advocate for the Australian made Chevy over the Ohio made Honda.
- D.P.Gumby - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 2:38 pm:
legislating manufacturing territoriality is illogical from both a business AND a labor perspective. American Labor competes best by its skill and ability to prevent legislation favoring business that takes manufacturing and money overseas for tax purposes.
- foster brooks - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 2:39 pm:
Howabout having our snow removal equipment made in Illinois too..presently made in monroe wisconsin
- jerry 101 - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 2:41 pm:
Mexico is part of North America.
So, Canada is fine, but Mexico’s not? Why is that?
I’m all for government giving preference to domestic business in purchasing, but this seems rather unseemly.
- Ahoy! - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 2:41 pm:
No, they should be required to purchase the best car for the best price because that’s what is best for taxpayers. Besides, this is a global economy and this legislation sounds simple, but it’s not with all the intricacies with supply chain and manufacturing parts vs. assembly.
- VanillaMan - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 2:46 pm:
Yes.
We choose cars based on environmentalism, style, fashion and reliability - so why not consider the economic impact a foreign branded car has upon your neighbor’s job, your local economy or your country’s?
North American made. Well, last time I checked, Mexico and Canada was in North America too, right?
For example, the Caprice is a long-standing favorite of law enforcement agencies and is the only full-size police cruiser on the market.
What a lot of stupid is in that line! The long-standing Caprice IS NO LONGER MADE. The new Caprice is Australian, but the long-standing Caprice was NOT. The new Caprice is an entirely different car GM is trying to find a market for - and failing. It shouldn’t even had been a part of this story, except to cloud and confuse!
Police and government cars should be American brands made in North America. It makes a difference to our economy. What Ford does is the right thing to do to meet this possible Illinois law.
Foreign brands have decimated the Illinois economy. Having them assembled here doesn’t mean the same thing.
If you want to help the US Auto industry survive, you favor this bill. There is no harm in making sure your tax money is spent to help our economy.
- Open Book - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 2:47 pm:
I vote Yes. The car dealers opposed to this are the same ones who benefit from union members and loyal Americans buying GM and Ford products under the mistaken notion that they are somehow being more American. So let those dealers who are propped up by those patriots put their money where their mouth is and use more American made parts.
Those dealers want to bite the hand that has fed them all these years.
- Gone, but not forgotten - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 2:47 pm:
I voted yes. However, I think the State of Illinois should start out a little smaller. I believe I vaguely recall that when the Capitol was being renovated, many of the contractors and vendors were not from Illinois. Also contracts for things like the ethics test for State employees came from a contractor in California. Therefore, I believe that the State of Illinois commit to contracting and buying from Illinois sources only to try to build this economy and employment.
- CLJ - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 2:51 pm:
No. It’s called global trade. How about the state utilize the purchase of vehicles or whatever else that is made or has components in other countries to work out some trade deals with those countries to in kind purchase some goods manufactured in Illinois. Isn’t that the point of the state’s trade offices and missions?
- Jeff Trigg - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 2:55 pm:
And ban the state from buying anything made in China too, if we’re gonna be ridiculous.
- Michelle Flaherty - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 2:56 pm:
Yes, but they can only be purchased on Sundays.
- SkeptiCal - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 2:59 pm:
No. This kind of isolation and competition is unproductive. We are really in a nearly global economy. It is hard to say that a Japanese car built elsewhere but serviced and sold here is not good for jobs.
More to the point, regional competition against neighboring states is likewise a waste. Why declare war on St. Louis or Northwestern Indiana?
There is no hard evidence that I have seen that supports the belief that this improves the Illinois or even national economy.
- Roamin' Numeral - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 3:00 pm:
==so why not consider the economic impact a foreign branded car has upon your neighbor’s job, your local economy or your country’s?==
If you’re neighbor builds Hondas, it affects his or her job positively.
==Police and government cars should be American brands made in North America. It makes a difference to our economy.==
And if the costs are significantly higher than foreign options, you’d be ok with that too?
==Foreign brands have decimated the Illinois economy.==
Are you in favor of isolationism?
- Gooner - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 3:09 pm:
It is too bad that certain elected officials consider “where it was made” to be more important than “will it keep the employees safe.”
My background is construction. In that field, “making sure every employee goes home safely to his or her family every night” is our top priority.
So when it comes to what state employees are driving, I don’t care where they are made. I would prefer to see them driving the best product available at a similar price.
- Bogey Golfer - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 3:10 pm:
All cars have parts “made” from countries all over the world. And “foreign” cars are assembled in the U.S. This ain’t the 1970’s folks. Voted NO.
- Walter Esler - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 3:19 pm:
A glance at America’s Balance of Accounts makes it perfectly clear: Globalization has failed. We’ve been hemorrhaging money and jobs. A requirement to source industrial production in North America would be a very good thing.
- A guy - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 3:19 pm:
No. Shouldn’t even need an explanation why. Just no.
- Ghost - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 3:21 pm:
Ironically this would given toyota, honda etc a leg up on gm and chevy, as those companies make parts outside the us and ship them here for assembly
- How Ironic - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 3:24 pm:
Let’s just get right out and say it. Illinois should be able to purchase auto’s manufactured OR assembled anywhere except Indiana and Wisconsin.
- Rufus - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 3:25 pm:
IMHO, the state of Illinois should purchase the best car, for a give list of specifications, at the best price. That is how the State can serve it’s taxpayers in the most economical way.
- john doe - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 3:30 pm:
Buy the cheapest vehicle that does the job. Anything more is a waste of taxpayers money.
- Six Degrees of Separation - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 3:37 pm:
I voted a qualified “No”. I have no problem with incentivizing a certain percent of Illinois, US or North American (as long as it includes Mexico) content or assembly point, if the bids are close and we can get something equivalent made in state or US. However, I wouldn’t give the incentive too much weight, in order to give maximum value and choice to the taxpayers and the state.
This brings back memories of the “Illinois Content” International Harvester pick up trucks and Checker sedans that were, ummm, not too well received by those who had to use them.
- Precinct Captain - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 3:38 pm:
I voted no because it should not be required if legislators drafting the bill don’t even know what constitutes North America. Pathetic.
I think we all know why Mexico was excluded from the definition of North America. Doubly pathetic.
- 100 Miles West - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 3:45 pm:
Don’t you first have to have legislation to kick Mexico out of North America?
- NoGifts - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 3:56 pm:
Plus a whole new bureaucracy to certify “buy north america” vehicle status - and grant waivers.
- Upon Further Review - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 4:09 pm:
It would be difficult to eliminate Canada as Detroit is on the border and many auto manufacturers have factories on both sides of the Detroit River.
- Michelle Flaherty - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 4:11 pm:
really big, American-made fences are the answer.
- Downstate Illinois - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 4:14 pm:
Focus on giving us a better business climate overall rather than gaming the system for one company over another.
- Soccermom - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 4:16 pm:
Did they move Mexico again? I can’t keep up…
- Soccermom - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 4:21 pm:
Rich, please help me out here. I have looked at the language of the bill and the amendment, and it specifies North America. There is no mention of Mexico anywhere that I can find. So is it just that the bill’s sponsor doesn’t know where Mexico is?
- Soccermom - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 4:24 pm:
I just read the Telegraph article. Is it possible that the Mexican consul doesn’t know that Mexico is in North America?
Seriously, did somebody move Mexico?
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 4:30 pm:
Ok, did a think on this, got the squirrel to use the hamster wheel, do the ski thing…
Voted “No”.
“Why”?
Any piece of legislation, any, that can figure out where Mexico fits in, in the Western Hemisphere should receive all “red” lights.
Either be clear about done inherit biases, or admit you’re a Dope. Then fix the Bill accordingly. This Bill? “No”
- Outsider - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 4:38 pm:
So, the question is, should Illinois buy cars from manufacturers who build factories and cars out of the United States where the labor is cheaper….labor is cheaper in many places…so the bill should be revised to say buy cars (or any anything else) where companies pay their laborers less than we do….Those are the same companies that keep their profits off-shore so they don’t have to pay U. S. taxes.
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 4:47 pm:
Where a car is made should be considered by the state of Illinois when making a purchase or lease of vehicles. First this will support jobs for American workers and second this will help reduce the carbon footprint of purchasing vehicles if they are manufactured locally. Cars made in the USA or Canada are made in North America, but I don’t understand why this would not include cars made in Mexico.
- Enviro - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 4:49 pm:
The Anonymous comment at 4:47pm was made by me.
- Sunshine - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 4:51 pm:
The “Made in America” days of old are gone forever. Not only did it imply made in the USA, when in fact ‘America” is North America, Central America, and South America. Many parts are Made in America via China, India, Japan, etc.
All we need now in the great state of Illinois is to become isolationists. We are ruining our relationships with neighboring states so why not the rest of the world. Brilliant strategy I tell you….just freakin brilliant!
- JS Mill - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 5:27 pm:
Voted “no”.
Dear ILGA,
Quit wasting time and fix the “other” mess that you made.
My Very Best,
JS Mill
- Anon - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 5:36 pm:
So after all these decades the domestic brands still can’t compete in the open market. How about we just build the best cars here, and we all can buy them? But no, we need to protect our inferior products with laws.
- Arthur Andersen - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 5:43 pm:
I was No before the goofy Mexico issue. I’m really No now.
Like other folks, I think the State should select vehicles based on price and suitability for the agency requirements.
The big deal here is likely the “Australian” Chevy Caprice, which contrary to VM’s treatise, is very popular with police departments (see Police, Illinois State) and which competes with the “Illnois-made” Ford Taurus. It’s really a non-issue because Chevy will cease production of the Caprice and its Aussie brother the Holden Monaro in 2017.
- Ethan Hawk - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 5:51 pm:
The state should base all of the purchases based on whatever gives taxpayers “the best quality for the lowest price” and use the principal “the most bang for the buck” as their motivation and their motto.
- Hey Anonny Nonny - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 5:55 pm:
=I have looked at the language of the bill and the amendment, and it specifies North America=
Soccermom, the key is in the VINs. The bill specifically states that Illinois can only buy cars whose VINs begin with 1, 2, 4, or 5. Those numbers are world manufacturer country codes that correspond to North America with the exception of number 3, which corresponds to - you guessed it - Mexico (and the Cayman Islands, but I don’t think they’re a manufacturing powerhouse).
- railrat - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 5:59 pm:
voted no if this is an argument then all state tax funded work sub contracting outsourced support products should be done with USA and/or Illinois products !!!!! sorry road builders no more foreign equipment UAW or whoever sponsored this nonsense should be more worried about Cadillac tax from pals in the White House lol
- downstate commissioner - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 6:09 pm:
Voted “no” It is a global economy, period.
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 6:17 pm:
Belvidere still makes Illinois vehicles
- Excessively Rabid - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 6:23 pm:
No and stop thinking up stupid bills. Like we don’t have enough problems without inventing this kind of nonsense.
- 1776 - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 6:30 pm:
The bill requires vehicles ASSEMBLED in the U.S. & Canada regardless of where the parts are manufactured. Labor is very short-sighted. Wait until this passes and Illinois starts buying cars from non-union facilities in Texas, Georgia, Indiana, etc.
Illinois alone has over 100 manufacturers that supply parts for vehicles assembled outside of the U.S. & Canada but are purchased by the state of Illinois. Over half are union shops. Wait until these union members get pink slips so Illinois can buy from non-union shops.
It’s a great bill to use on a mail piece or radio ad but not serious public policy. Or if it’s go great, why limit it to automobiles.
- Enviro - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 6:43 pm:
Reasons to buy American Made:
1. Jobs - Above all else, when you buy American you save or create AMERICAN JOBS!
2. Environmental - Many of the top countries where our goods come from have little or no regulations to protect the environment.
3. Human Rights - The countries the United States import from often have nonexistent standards regular working conditions. No one wants to support that. We have regulations and agencies in this country to protect workers.
- railrat - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 6:51 pm:
Enviro @6:43 when can a representative of this site audit the products you’ve purchased in the oh say last 6 months starting in the garage and then the kitchen then the kids toys !!! hey I’ll bet we can ask Al Gore to come along to keep score !!!
- RNUG - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 7:13 pm:
I’m all for Buy American … but too many “American” vehicles are made outside the US borders, usually in Canada or Mexico. And a lot of those plants ended up right across the rivers / lakes because of unequal treatment over the years of CAFE standards by the federal government between “domestic” and “import” vehicles.
- HappyToaster - Tuesday, Apr 14, 15 @ 7:17 pm:
So non-union cars assembled in the US and Canada are A-OK, but union assembled in Mexico are out.
Just brilliant guys. No wonder American organized labor is circling the drain.
You’re also giving the GOP a shot on 11/1/2016 if you keep up with the dopey, xenophobic, Mexican bashing.
- Anonymous - Wednesday, Apr 15, 15 @ 7:41 am:
I was born, worked, and retired in Illinois, and now live in Edinburg, Texas and I’ll tell you with first hand knowledge you cannot buy a car or any car part in Mexico unless it’s made in Mexico. And they don’t give a damn about U.S. or its’ citizens.
- Old Hippy - Wednesday, Apr 15, 15 @ 7:44 am:
What about China adopting the same policy for all earthmoving equipment? In this “age of global commerce”, this legislation is typical Illinois union BS.
- mimie Brown - Wednesday, Apr 15, 15 @ 1:47 pm:
If we don’t support American workers who will
- Anonymous - Wednesday, Apr 15, 15 @ 4:01 pm:
american made is made in america name of the company doesnt matter keep american workers working to hell with mexico and the rest of the world
- HappyToaster - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 9:26 am:
The US does export assembled cars and parts to Mexico. The average US import from Mexico has about 40% US content in them.
10% of the Illinois export economy goes to Mexico.
Smoot–Hawley was a disaster for the American worker.
- zipzap - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 10:14 am:
Yes. Have you ever visited a car manufacture in Mexico? I have. They have very very poor working conditions and pay wages that are no way a living wage. They are all living in unbelievable standards, way below U.S workers. They charge the same prices on the cars built in Mexico as the same model built in U.S.Does that make it fair for American workers??
- Hip Hop - Thursday, Apr 16, 15 @ 6:34 pm:
We need more jobs in the United states, so why buy from other countries. We have lots of empty factories,that means these communities need more jobs. Please put people back to work.