Madigan’s workers’ comp proposal blasted
Thursday, Jun 4, 2015 - Posted by Rich Miller
* The governor convened his Cabinet yesterday and this was the biggest news from the meeting’s public portion…
Illinois House members will return to Springfield on Thursday and are scheduled to take up a workers’ compensation reform bill.
But even before lawmakers arrive in town, Gov. Bruce Rauner said the bill doesn’t go far enough.
“Our team has very quickly reviewed it,” Rauner said. “I’m sad to say that based upon that review, it’s not real reform. It’s more of the same, more of a phony reform, more of an insignificant reform. We’ve seen this movie before.”
Rather than being an attempt at compromise, Rauner said, the proposed bill will actually cost businesses more in some cases.
* From Lance Trover…
“Unsurprisingly, Speaker Madigan has proposed phony reforms in any effort to protect his special interest allies. His proposal ignores the most important reforms we need for our worker’s compensation system, and in another instance, could actually undermine previous reform efforts. Sadly, this is exactly the type of unserious, political posturing Illinoisans have now come to expect from the Speaker and the politicians he controls. Illinois needs real reform.”
* From the business lobby…
Illinois job creators have consistently called for comprehensive and meaningful reform of the Workers’ Compensation Act that will significantly reduce costs for employers – private and public sector - while protecting the rights of legitimately injured workers and ensuring their access to quality health care. Despite the 2011 reforms, Illinois still has the 7th highest cost of workers’ compensation in the United States and it is consistently cited as one of the primary reasons that companies move out of state or choose not to invest capital and grow jobs in Illinois.
“For House amendments 5, 6, and 7 to HB 1287, we are asking all House lawmakers to vote “No” since these amendments will result in zero savings for employers and likely increase the cost of workers’ compensation.
Amendment 5 simply codifies current law and doubles down on the bad ideas that have been thrust upon Illinois employers by our Courts. Amendment 6 will dramatically increase litigation for employers. Amendment 7 does nothing to decrease workers’ compensation costs, it only duplicates and adds additional regulation on employers.
Illinois employers stand ready to work with leaders on both sides of the aisle.”
Associated Builders & Contractors
Chemical Industry Council of Illinois
Chicagoland Chamber of Commerce
Home Builders Association of Illinois
Illinois Chamber of Commerce
Illinois Coal Association
Illinois Construction Industry Committee
Illinois Manufacturers’ Association
Illinois Municipal League
Illinois Retail Merchants Association
Illinois Self-Insurers Association
Illinois Trucking Association
Midwest Equipment Dealers Association
Mid-West Truckers Association
National Federation of Independent Business
Technology & Manufacturing Association
* The Illinois Manufacturers Association was more pointed. Here’s it’s analysis…
1) Codify Venture-Newberg – travel must be required or directed by employer or the course or method of travel must be determined by the employer.
Agree but the Democrat language does not fully codify the court case. Since 2007, Illinois Appellate Courts have made seven major rulings dramatically expanding the scope of a “traveling employee.” In the December 2013 in the Venture-Newberg case, the Illinois Supreme Court stepped in and restricted some of the Appellate Court expansion. Employers should not be held responsible for actions of employees engaged in activities out of their scope of employment.
2) Prohibit insurers from using repetitive injuries that occurred within 3 months of the start of employment to determine premiums.
This is part of a discussion that Democrats used in the working group. It seeks to address the issue that an employer is on the hook for repetitive motion injuries when first hiring an employee. However, rather than relieving the employer from paying the medical costs or award, this simply says that an insurer cannot use that information when calculating premiums. This does not address the fact that a hotel should not have to pay for a $100,000 cost of carpal tunnel injury for a maid that worked for only six weeks.
3) Provide greater transparency and oversight of workers’ compensation rates
• Provide for rate review and pre-approval of rates
• Require insurers to justify deviations from advisory rates
• Make information concerning self-insureds available to the public
• Create a task force to look at the issue of premiums not reflecting NCCI recommended decreases (HJR 49)
This is the standard boiler plate talking points from trial lawyers and labor unions that seeks to shift blame rather than looking at why the cost of workers’ compensation is significantly higher in Illinois. Self-insured companies and governments do not use insurance companies so there is no reason why their information would need to be made public. Illinois has a competitive insurance market (health care, workers’ compensation, property & casualty) with generally low rates except for WC. It’s not because of insurance companies – it’s because of the law and court system. If it were truly the case that insurance companies were “gouging” businesses, then you would see a significant difference in WC costs between insured and self-insured companies.
4) Allow the last employer responsible for providing workers’ compensation to seek contributions from prior employers to the extent they contributed to an employer’s injury
Again, this proposal does not help the last employer who still has to pay 100 percent of all medical and indemnity payments to the injured worker. It actually hurts the employer, especially small and mid sized companies who not only have to pay the WC award, they have to hire an attorney to chase previous employers for potential reimbursement.
Discuss.
- Peoria Guy - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 11:04 am:
It is no surprise that Madigan proposed a do nothing WC bill
- AC - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 11:07 am:
Lance Trover word soup gives me indigestion. Seriously, it is distracting, and causes me to focus on something other than his intended message.
- walker - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 11:07 am:
Thank God for some clarity on the differences, from the business lobbyists!
Are the Republicans going to try to offer some amendments, try to move their own needle closer to the middle, or just cry foul and walk out again?
- MrJM - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 11:07 am:
“the Democrat language”
While using “Democrat” instead of “Democratic” is irresistible to a certain strain of right-winger, it behoves a writer to resist that compulsion if one desires to be seen as anything other than a partisan hack.
– MrJM
- JackD - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 11:08 am:
Has the Governor ever specified what he wants with workmen’s comp; you know, like details?
- the Other Anonymous - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 11:09 am:
It seems that Rauner’s definition of reform means someone has to suffer, i. e., someone middle class, not rich.
- Ducky LaMoore - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 11:12 am:
Phony reform? Well Bruce, you are the expert with phony reform, so I’ll take your word for it. Maybe if you said something like, “This doesn’t go far enough and I will work with the legislature on crafting a better bill” would look better than what you actually said. And then you know, maybe you would actually try to do your job. Asking too much?
- Wordslinger - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 11:12 am:
I suspect this is the issue where Rauner will eventually be able to declare a victory so he can sign his tax increase that will be the Supremes fault.
- A guy - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 11:14 am:
I simply hate the game playing going on with this. There is no greater opportunity in this state to stimulate business than WC reform. There are numerous good examples of dealing with this better all around the country.
Fix this, and a lot of other ailments will go away. Fast.
- Johnny Pyle Driver - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 11:20 am:
maybe i’m just not looking in the right places, but what on earth does the governor think is REAL reform? Has he ever shared the deetz on this in re: WC reform?
- lib dem67 - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 11:21 am:
If someone, anyone anywhere can cite an actual example of a hotel maid being awarded $100K for a carpal tunnel WC claim I will sprout wings and fly around the world backwards.
This kind of blatant exaggeration speaks volumes for the actual agenda.
A hotel maid (low wage earner) with an operated carpal tunnel surgery is work around $5-6K tops. And that is if the causation is clear.
This example is simply outlandish, but those who actually know it is ridiculous are few.
- lib dem67 - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 11:31 am:
In follow up, the cost of a carpal tunnel surgery is a little of $2K (healthcare blue book.com)
I understand people tend to overstate their position but to suggest a CTR (carpal tunnel release) procedure costs $100K and/or the WC claim is $100K is a flat out lie.
Use real examples please.
When Madigan did that it was called a “show”. Maybe it was a bit of theater but at least it was verifiable.
- redeft - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 11:38 am:
I haven’t seen the Madigan proposal, so am not in a position to comment on it, but sincerely hope Illinois does not join the race to the bottom on worker’s comp claims. This report from Pro Publica and NPR shows how the so-called reforms in many states have seriously hurt injured workers. We should not jump to adopt the reforms that have hurt so many people in other states. http://www.propublica.org/article/the-demolition-of-workers-compensation
- SAP - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 11:40 am:
I count 16 lobbying entities who cannot speak to departmental staff and must therefore negotiate through the media that Governor Rauner does not read/watch/listen to.
- tominchicago - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 11:40 am:
JackD - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 11:08 am:
Has the Governor ever specified what he wants with workmen’s comp; you know, like details?
Yes, in the words of Judge Smails, “they’ll get NOTHING….and like it.”
- PublicServant - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 11:48 am:
As Walker mentioned, the lobbyists are providing some details to chew on, and are valuable to the process. They certainly shouldn’t be excluded. Now, if, as JackD asks, Rauner would provide specifics about why he thinks the “proposal ignores the most important reforms we need for our worker’s compensation system”, and then detail what he specifically wants, then we can get somewhere. The Trover mush gets us nowhere.
- Mokenavince - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 11:52 am:
Using Madigan and reform in the same sentence is a joke. Our workers comp is driving business out of the state. We are charged for every $100.00 dollars earned not by hours worked . A union worker racks up $100.00 quicker than a non-union worker. The rate should be based on hours worked and not dollars earned. Trial lawyers are making a killing while we are losing jobs.
- Louis G Atsaves - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 12:13 pm:
@LibDem: “In follow up, the cost of a carpal tunnel surgery is a little of $2K (healthcare blue book.com) I understand people tend to overstate their position but to suggest a CTR (carpal tunnel release) procedure costs $100K and/or the WC claim is $100K is a flat out lie. Use real examples please. When Madigan did that it was called a “show”. Maybe it was a bit of theater but at least it was verifiable.”
Go back and look up where the surgery was performed (hospital, surgicenter), cost of anesthesia, x-rays, lab costs, follow up doctor visits, physical therapy costs, removal of stitches, 2/3 of pay for lost time post surgery (and pre-surgery in many cases) and ultimate permanent partial disability. Add doctor visit and clinic costs before surgery and pre-diagnosis, costs of EMG/NCV test, perhaps an MRI.
Will it hit $100,000? In nearly most CTS cases I’ve handled on both sides of the fence, no. Is it more than $2,000? Certainly, yes.
- Louis G Atsaves - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 12:15 pm:
Add prescription medications pre and post surgery. Add potential job return precluded by the injury and potential retraining or job search costs. Every case has different costs and different scenarios that play out in this field of law.
- Arsenal - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 12:17 pm:
Gives the whole game away. The Governor acknowledges that revenue is needed, but says he won’t approve it until his Turnaround Agenda is passed, and when the legislature starts looking at the Turnaround Agenda, he says it’s all phony. Manufactured conflict.
- Arsenal - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 12:18 pm:
==Using Madigan and reform in the same sentence is a joke.==
He’s not going to *not* be a part of any WC reform legislation. He’s the Speaker of the House.
- mcb - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 12:24 pm:
Madigan’s workers comp stance is not, has never been, and will never be about protecting the middle class. It’s 100% about protecting the trial lawyers, a whole class of millionaires who have driven up the costs of nearly everything you buy or do with their lawsuits.
- anon - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 12:24 pm:
The points reference comments made during the working groups. I thought only legislators were in those meetings.
Did Governor staff write these points or were the business groups in the room?
- mcb - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 12:26 pm:
Should add the obvious connection to why Madigan backs the trial lawyers, it’s the massive contributions they give. That’s why he pushed jury pool changes in size and pay, simply because studies said smaller, better paid juries were more likely to find on behalf of the plaintiff and award more money. Yes, we revamped our justice system and put massive costs on counties just to help the trial lawyers win a few more cases and make more money.
- Precinct Captain - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 12:27 pm:
==- Louis G Atsaves - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 12:15 pm:==
Ballpark us a number.
- Peoria Guy - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 12:35 pm:
===Madigan’s workers comp stance is not, has never been, and will never be about protecting the middle class. It’s 100% about protecting the trial lawyers, a whole class of millionaires who have driven up the costs of nearly everything you buy or do with their lawsuits.====
Hear, hear
- Anonymous - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 12:49 pm:
Don’t forget sham working groups. Since the Governor wants these “working groups” he should be required each day to go to them with the cameras rolling instead of him speaking through people.
- VanillaMan - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 12:59 pm:
I’m sensing a compromise on this!
- Wordslinger - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 1:00 pm:
MCB, PG, workers comp is about trial lawyers and lawsuits?
That’s a pretty stunning revelation, as the whole point of every workers comp system everywhere is to keep such claims out of court.
Could you expand, please, on the relationship you’ve discovered between workers comp and lawsuits?
You guys obviously are on to some Da Vinci Code or something.
- Louis G Atsaves - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 1:01 pm:
@Precinct Captain: Difficult but not impossible to ballpark a number. Using a scenario of return to work following surgery;
Medical costs including testing: $20,000 to $25,000. (If both hands are operated on, double the costs to $40,000 to $50,000).
Lost time benefits: roughly 10 weeks @500/week (rates vary by salary so I chose something more or less midway): $6,000. Add another 5 - 7 weeks if both hands are operated on (increasing TTD to around $10,000).
Permanent Partial Disability: $12,825 = 15% hand @ 450/week (rates again vary and I used a percentage for a good result. Multiply by 2 if both hands operated on ($25,650.00).
Without administrative costs: One Hand: $38,825.00. Two Hands: $62,825.00 using conservative numbers. Add $5,000 to $10,000 if medical case becomes a bit more protracted on a good result case.
Administrative costs include medical record fees, processing costs for medical bills and hourly attorneys fees costs.
For a poor medical result, you can easily blow past the $100,000 figure, and that can include retraining costs.
Hope this helps everyone understand the situation. Take the hotheads out of the negotiation process on both sides and the system, employers, employees and the State will benefit.
- Anonymous - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 1:09 pm:
Why are the business lobby and IMA weighing in on Rauner’s side. He doesn’t want lobsters involved last time I checked.
- A guy - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 1:22 pm:
Took all the way up until 1:09pm to come up with that gem?
- mcb - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 1:32 pm:
-word,
Sorry, meant to say tort reform and workers comp, my apologies.
But yes, the trial lawyers are making massive bucks on workers comp in Illinois. No Da Vinci code, just reality. And of course they are also raking it in with lawsuits over areas.
They are the sole reason for Madigan’s resistance on either front (and most of his party).
The faces of resitance to these idea are lawyers in suits, not middle class families.
- Robert the Bruce - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 1:48 pm:
==I suspect this is the issue where Rauner will eventually be able to declare a victory so he can sign his tax increase that will be the Supremes fault.==
Well said! And I hope you’re right. Rauner does have to be able to say he won something in order to sign off on a tax increase.
- Both Sides Now - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 2:34 pm:
I’m not a lawyer, a legislator or an insurance professional, so I can’t profess to understanding all of the nuances of how and why on this issue. But this much I do understand. The cost of workman’s comp is too high in Illinois. And this ultimately puts small and large businesses alike out of business or keeps them from doing business in Illinois.
A small carpentry/construction company in Illinois owned by two brothers with fewer than 10 full time employees is paying $14,000 a year for workmen’s comp insurance! That’s on top of the roofing license fee, bonding fees, general liability premium, etc. And all that has to be paid before you do one job. Think about how long it will take to recoup the up-front fees Illinois imposes or causes - that’s the reason businesses are leaving Illinois and that’s the reason why people don’t have jobs.
If the Legislature will actually fix Workmen’s Comp, it won’t fix everything wrong with this state, but it sure will have a positive impact.
- JackD - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 2:49 pm:
So, after all of that, does anyone claim to know what the Governor wants with respect to workmen’s comp?
- Precinct Captain - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 3:05 pm:
==- A guy - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 1:22 pm:==
S/he heard it at a CoD meeting.
==I can’t profess to understanding all of the nuances of how and why on this issue.==
But hear me ROAR!
- Qui Tam - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 3:16 pm:
“the trial lawyers are making massive bucks on workers comp in Illinois.”
Don’t forget- The poor insurance companies aren’t making enough money.
The greedy injured workers just won’t stop until they wipe out the one-percenters.
- KBL - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 3:52 pm:
I’ve been a workers comp adjuster & claims mgr in Illinois & other states since 1991, and I have to say that it is pretty legitimate to have a person with bilateral operated carpal tunnel syndrome in the Chicago area with medical payments in excess of $100k for all the medical care. This is not to say that the settlement for a hotel maid would be that high, although it could be, if s/he ends up with permanent restrictions that the employer cannot accommodate.
There is plenty of room for reform in Illinois. At the top of my wish list would be the ability for the claims payer to direct care.
- Demoralized - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 3:54 pm:
==At the top of my wish list would be the ability for the claims payer to direct care.==
What does that mean? Serious question.
- A guy - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 4:31 pm:
===Precinct Captain - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 3:05 pm:
==- A guy - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 1:22 pm:==
S/he heard it at a CoD meeting.
==I can’t profess to understanding all of the nuances of how and why on this issue.==
But hear me ROAR!====
If you’re going to quote me, do so directly. Otherwise you’re a bit of a simpleton. Take a bit of time to prove otherwise please.
- Arsenal - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 4:46 pm:
==What does that mean? Serious question.==
That the insurance company gets to decide on treatment.
Which I’m against; the doctor should decide on treatment. The proviso is that the current system allows the insurance company/employer to dispute that certain treatment is necessary, and make the employee go to a doctor of their choosing to determine what’s necessary. I’m cool with all of that.
- Bill White - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 4:57 pm:
==At the top of my wish list would be the ability for the claims payer to direct care.==
If the claims payer directs the wrong care and the patient is injured worse, would the claims payer be liable for malpractice?
- Wordslinger - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 6:31 pm:
– trial lawyers are making massive bucks on workers comp in Illinois.–
Louis A, hear that? You’re scoring like a trial lawyer, dude!
MCB, you’re conflating a couple of very different areas of practice. Acceptable contincengy fees and what in a settlement can be applied to those fees are way different.
You might want to take a look at those writing the insurance. Or the docs. They’re the ones that killed a more sweeping bipartisan change last time out when they wouldn’t take a haircut. They rattled Tom Cross and he wouldnt put any GOP members on it.
- Louis G Atsaves - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 9:13 pm:
@wordslinger: I AM an extremely rare breed, a Republican trial lawyer!
- Lynn S, - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 9:27 pm:
@ Bill White - Thursday, Jun 4, 15 @ 4:57 pm:
==At the top of my wish list would be the ability for the claims payer to direct care.==
If the claims payer directs the wrong care and the patient is injured worse, would the claims payer be liable for malpractice?
________________________________________________
As someone who has been hurt and had to go through workman’s comp for treatment and physical therapy (no surgery, thank GOD!!), I’m going to give you the answer to your question, Bill (but I suspect you already knew this, and you’re looking for someone to confirm your suspicions): The answer is ABSOLUTELY NOT! The claim payer’s insurance company. lawyer, and others on their respective staff will all argue that it is the responsibility of the claim payer and their staff/contractors to hold down costs, and if that means the claimant is not rehabilitated to their prior level of ability as the result of the sub-standard care, that is the fault of the claimant, not the employer, the employer’s doctor, the employer’s lawyer, or the employer’s insurance company. Profits must be preserved, above all other considerations!