Southern Illinois Congressman Mike Bost says the U.S. Supreme Court’s recent ruling that same-sex marriage is a constitutional right puts clergy in a tough spot.
The Murphysboro republican says he doesn’t believe the high court’s justices should be deciding issues like this because many churches believe same-sex marriage is not right before God and should not be allowed.
“But, my fear is that ministers that come from a faith that do not believe it’s right, can be forced to perform marriage ceremonies, and thus violate what they believe is their oath before God.”
Oy.
* Perhaps he’s just trying to distract the folks back home from this…
Congress is moving away from its longtime use of taxpayer-financed mail to constituents, but not Rep. Mike Bost.
The freshman Republican from Murphysboro, Ill., spent almost $113,000 on what is called “franked” mail in the first three months in office, amounting to more than 244,000 pieces. That is nearly twice the amount spent by the next biggest frank-mail user.
He sent more individual pieces of mail in that time than the roughly 210,000 people who voted when Bost defeated Democrat Rep. Bill Enyart in last November’s election. […]
Because of the rise of electronic communications, franked mail is falling in usage, and it is under increased scrutiny. A Congressional Research Service report released in May said that the volume of mass mailings sent by members of Congress to constituents fell from 103 million in 2008 to 40.3 million last year. The cost to taxpayers in that window fell from $25.2 million to $15.8 million.
Mundelein Mayor Steve Lentz on Monday defended widely criticized comments he made about the legalization of gay marriage and other societal issues during an Independence Day speech. […]
Near the midpoint of his remarks Saturday morning at the village’s Fort Hill Heritage Center, Lentz said he wanted to “address the elephant in the room” and started talking about the Supreme Court’s recent ruling on marriage equality.
He called it one event in an ongoing “moral crisis” in the U.S.
Lentz went on to discuss people having children without being married, saying “the out-of-wedlock birthrate is just crazy high compared to our history.” Such parents are part of a “crisis against the family” in the U.S., Lentz said.
He then defended Prohibition, saying, “It’s just what the doctor ordered.”
Lentz then referenced an anthropologist who he said had, in the 1930s, studied different cultures. Lentz said the man, J.D. Unwin, found a link between conservative sexual practices and a society’s success.
“The cultures that had a strict code of marital monogamy, heterosexual marital monogamy, those cultures had the most vibrancy and affected those around them the most,” Lentz claimed in the speech. “When the wheels came off and the standards began to decline in that area, within two to three generations, that culture would end.” […]
In his remarks, Lentz also said the government can address social problems through the Constitution and used as example the 18th Amendment, which banned alcohol in the 1920s and early 1930s.
Lentz said alcohol caused issues such as spousal abuse and led to other societal ills. Prohibition worked, he said.
I wonder if Mayor Lentz actually looked around the world for countries that ban alcohol and severely punish homosexuals and women who have sex out of wedlock. He’d find them, for sure. I’m not so sure he’d want to live in them, or believe that they are infinitely superior to our own country.
Also, Mundelein is in Rep. Ed Sullivan’s district, one of the few Republicans who voted for gay marriage. Sullivan went on to thump a conservative challenger. The mayor may not quite understand his home turf.
=But, my fear is that ministers that come from a faith that do not believe it’s right, can be forced to perform marriage ceremonies, and thus violate what they believe is their oath before God.=
Yes because there’s nothing that the LGBT community wants more than to force ministers to marry them against their will. That’s what this was all about. The reason that people like Bost will continue to be rightly labeled as bigots is because they have to use the most ridiculous and tortured logic to justify their positions.
Sounds like he wants Sharia law. You know a lot of these folks might like it better under Sharia. They have more in common with Muslim fanatics than they do with the majority of this country. Heck they could move to Somalia and be free from all that government regulation too.
I hate to bring “Gruber” into any conversation among adults, but Gruber’s idea that people will believe what they want when politically convenient backs Bost’s claims.
Even though marriage equality will never force actual ministers to do anything, that reality does not matter to people who really want to believe that marriage equality somehow directly impacts those who are not marrying a person of their own sex.
Because they want to find a reason to oppose it, they do.
Bost is smart enough to play into that underlying bias. He knows how to push the buttons to get himself elected. The fact that the statements are not true are irrelevant. This is pure politics and rational thought is not part of it.
Bost’s announced fear that this decision could lead to government forcing clergy and churches to perform marriage ceremonies not consistent with their faith,(unlikely in the extreme), was parroted by both Cruz and Santorum his weekend in national interviews. Our Illinois law on marriage rights expressly forbids that kind of intervention, as does the Constitution.
It will be a typical national Republican primary meme — fear-based, and false. When will we stop fostering victimhood as a political tactic?
It makes me so mad that folks like Bost would say that. Clergy do not HAVE to marry anyone that their faith forbids. The Supreme court case only applied to the State issueing of the marriage liscense which is what ACTUALLY legally marries a couple. The religious ceremony is merely a nicety. Sure, it’s the whole point to some people, but the confusion comes by conflating the legal function of the state with the religious ceremony. Calm down people, Unitarian Universalist and United Church of Christ clergy have been waiting for this for years to perform LGBT weddings. They will handle the religious side. Relax and attend your flock in peace.
“But, my fear is that ministers that come from a faith that do not believe it’s right, can be forced to perform marriage ceremonies, and thus violate what they believe is their oath before God.”
From the Supreme Court Ruling on gay marriage
“… Finally, it must be emphasized that religions, and those who adhere to religious doctrines, may continue to advocate with utmost, sincere conviction that, by divine precepts, same-sex marriage should not be condoned. The First Amendment ensures that religious organizations and persons are given proper protection as they seek to teach the principles that are so fulfilling and so central to their lives and faiths, and to their own deep aspirations to continue the family structure they have long revered. The same is true of those who oppose same-sex marriage for other reasons. …” http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/14pdf/14-556_3204.pdf
Put simply, nobody is going to be forced to perform a gay marriage if they don’t want to.
If you want to argue that, on net and on average, a society where most kids grow up in two-parent homes are better off, I have no issue. In part it’s a question of parental physics. A five-year old is a constant motor. You have two people to keep an eye on him and distribute up all the responsibilities, that’s all to the good.
But I’m pretty sure (just a hunch) that in the 1930s J D Unwin never studied the worldwide correlation between homosexual marriage and the decline of the two-parent family. And that collapse seemed well underway before _Obergefell v. Hodges_.
I’m truly amazed how uninformed and backward our elected official’s can be. Life liberty and the persecute of happiness, that’s the American way.
Regardless of color gender enicthity . Where were these knuckle head’s when the court approved of Citizens United? And Bost is a joke.
Rich said “The mayor may not quite understand his home turf.”
Most suburban and small town mayors don’t.
The voting population in local elections (compared to a city’s total population) is so tiny and skewed that his base may be perfectly fine with the gibberish he rambled on about.
5-7% of a town’s total population can get somebody elected.
Somebody PLEASE get Lentz a history book about Prohibition.
- the Other Anonymous - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 10:22 am:
Ooo, Mayor Lenz is relying on an anthropologist from the 1930s to conclude that same sex marriage is wrong! Well, that settles it — especially considering that there were no academic studies after the 1930s that completely exploded many myths we hold about human sexuality.
That last sentence? Snark, for those who fail to recognize it.
Face it. The mayor makes some legitimate points, particularly about the downfall of the family. Nothing assures continued poverty and lack of success more than out-of-wedlock births, and a culture that promotes this or glorifies this will slowly be consumed by societal ills. For those who have worked in paternity court, you know this is the truth.
Hey mayor: police, fire, traffic, business regulation, housing, sewage, and the founders day celebration. Thats your responsibilty. Marriage? Have a chardonnay, and shut up.
Hey mike: you can acknowledge the mistaken, but sincerely held, views of your constituents. But you should be better informed, and bring more to the discussion than pandering.
I used to think people like Bost were lying when they talked about ministers being forced. And maybe they still are. But after watching some of the post-decision fallout, I think plenty of them really believe it. Despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary, Constitutional, legal, you name it, they believe it.
Part of it, I think, is the echo chamber many of them live in. When Eric Hansen made his Facebook rant, I could count on one hand the number of commenters who questioned his assertion that he’d be breaking the law. The rest of his roughly hundred commenters were in full agreement or unquestioning support.
And part of it is threat to one’s identity and beliefs. For many if not most people, those aren’t merely challenges to facts, those are perceived and processed on a gut level as existential threats. This is why you see so much rhetoric on the far right fringe about how (somehow) gay marriage really IS part of a plot to persecute and eventually kill Christians. More mainstream conservative Christians recognize that’s goofy, but the emotional prod is still there, and the fear of major cultural shifts causing them to eventually lose supremacy is very real, and not unjustified.
I think this is where Lentz is coming from. And at least some like him really would be happy in those deeply religiously conservative countries out there…if it was the “right” religion. Cultural and religious orthodoxy matters more to some people than ANYTHING else politically, which is how you get countries like those.
Langhorne, you seem like a smart person. But if you don’t acknowledge that a nearly 50% out wedlock birth rate presents serious problems for every level of government, including villages, then you need to wise up.
Pointing out the problem is not “bashing single mothers.” Another attempt to shut down debate by throwing out straw man labels.
If by “Religious Liberty” the Christians mean that a woman can be refused service for not wearing a Hajib in a Muslim owned business….that’s one story.
But that’s not what The Huckleberries of the world want. They want special rights for Christians which will not work in a Secular country like this.
@Michael Western — Even if you believe out of wedlock birth is serious problem for Village Mayors to address, the 4th of July celebration is not the appropriate forum.
MW, of course out of wedlock birthrate is a problem. But lentz is wacko to link it to gay marriage. He may want to go back to a norman rockwell fairy tale existence, but thats not where we are and not going to happen. Leadership should come from other institutions–churchs, schools, health agencies, social service agencies, etc. Good jobs and affordable housing are also important. Lentz’ moralistic approach is off base.
Guy, unlike the past, the present day and age includes websites and email for an officeholder to communicate with constituents. They cost the taxpayers virtually nothing.
Given that, there’s no justification for an alleged small-government, tax-cutting conservative like Bost to be tuning up the taxpayers for his thinly disgused campaign direct mail.
everyone uses franked mail for campaign purposes. It’s usually put together by outside consultants or staff with campaign material, and its abuse “while investigated” usually isn’t what leads to the downfall of a member. Generally members that abuse it, end up losing for other reasons because it’s either part of a pattern of bad behavior or part of a strategy designed to help prop up a member whose career is drowning.
@Threepwood. I also have been trying to figure out why otherwise rational people having been losing their minds over same sex marriage. Educated people howling that the Supreme Court has no authority to decide what the Constitution means. Of course even if left up to the states, it’d be just a matter of time until they’d lose anyway given public opinion polls. Talk about an entitlement tantrum. No surprise it’s only white men having melt downs.
Lentz went on to discuss people having children without being married, saying “the out-of-wedlock birthrate is just crazy high compared to our history.” Such parents are part of a “crisis against the family” in the U.S., Lentz said.
The only part of his statements that I agree with.
Too bad this issue always gets mired down in religion- it is way to important for that.
Couldn’t agree more. In fact I thought the purpose of the Supreme Court of the United States of America was to determine the Constitutionality of the various issues.
I doubt you’ll find a “conservative” anywhere who disputes the Citizens United ruling, even though it’s not mentioned in
The Bible…..,
Will the socially liberal societies be displaced and replaced with more religious and socially/sexually conservative societies? Watch Europe. It is in a state of transformation similar to the time when Rome fell.
In Illinois, over 50 percent of births are paid for by Medicaid. This includes 96 percent of births to mothers under eighteen. When half the children start life in poverty, we have a huge problem.
We cannot return to the Norman Rockwell days. And not all of that was good. But the trends are worrisome.
I do not want my country, which shed much blood to end slavery, to create a large group of citizens trapped in lives of violence and poverty.
LBM, your nostalgia for the enslaving, Christian-feeding-to-the-lions, imperialistic, military dictatorship that was the Roman Empire is touching, but I’m afraid your history is out of whack. In fact, it couldn’t be more wrong.
If you read your Gibbon, who literally wrote the book on the rise and fall, you’ll note that he gives the greatest weight to the rise of Christianity among the reasons for the demise of the emperors.
In fact, by the time Rome recognized Christianity as the state religion, the emperors goose was cooked, as the population turned their attention from a kingdom on earth and the glory of Rome to kingdom-come and the glory of God.
Cmon man, use your head — who was the big heat in Rome and Europe after the last emperor? The Pope.
Word. Read Gibbons decades ago. No nostalgia for the Roman Empire. Slavery cost the Empire the citizens that might have fought off the invading tribes.
Then the new religion came out of the Middle East and the physical invasion from the East. Now both religion and people are coming from Africa and the Middle East.
Point was that cultures and populations change. Europe is changing. Don’t miss the ancient Romans. Fond of the current Europeans.
If Mayor Lenz is so concerned about morality he might want to romp over to the seminary — that is the dumping ground for the clergy who cannot be let out in public anymore
- Wordslinger - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 9:44 am:
The franking privilege in this day and age is a complete joke. It’s nothing more than taxpayer funded political direct mail.
I’m sure Bost will continue to ring up hundreds of thousands abusing the frank to inform everyone on his efforts to cut spending and waste.
- Stones - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 9:44 am:
I bet that 4th of July party at Steve Lentz’ house was a blast!
- pundent - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 9:45 am:
=But, my fear is that ministers that come from a faith that do not believe it’s right, can be forced to perform marriage ceremonies, and thus violate what they believe is their oath before God.=
Yes because there’s nothing that the LGBT community wants more than to force ministers to marry them against their will. That’s what this was all about. The reason that people like Bost will continue to be rightly labeled as bigots is because they have to use the most ridiculous and tortured logic to justify their positions.
- Me too - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 9:47 am:
Sounds like he wants Sharia law. You know a lot of these folks might like it better under Sharia. They have more in common with Muslim fanatics than they do with the majority of this country. Heck they could move to Somalia and be free from all that government regulation too.
- Gooner - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 9:47 am:
I hate to bring “Gruber” into any conversation among adults, but Gruber’s idea that people will believe what they want when politically convenient backs Bost’s claims.
Even though marriage equality will never force actual ministers to do anything, that reality does not matter to people who really want to believe that marriage equality somehow directly impacts those who are not marrying a person of their own sex.
Because they want to find a reason to oppose it, they do.
Bost is smart enough to play into that underlying bias. He knows how to push the buttons to get himself elected. The fact that the statements are not true are irrelevant. This is pure politics and rational thought is not part of it.
- Wordslinger - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 9:50 am:
That anthropologist Lentz allegedly consulted must not have thought much of the culture described in the Old Testament.
I wondered what happened to that culture?
Lentz’s remarks would have been very welcome in certain quarters of Teheran, Riyadh, Khartoum and areas occupied by ISIS.
- A Jack - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 9:51 am:
Apparently Unwin forgot to study the ancient Greeks and Romans.
- A guy - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 9:52 am:
===Wordslinger - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 9:44 am:
The franking privilege in this day and age is a complete joke. It’s nothing more than taxpayer funded political direct mail.===
True. But it’s been just that in every day and age.
- walker - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 9:52 am:
Bost’s announced fear that this decision could lead to government forcing clergy and churches to perform marriage ceremonies not consistent with their faith,(unlikely in the extreme), was parroted by both Cruz and Santorum his weekend in national interviews. Our Illinois law on marriage rights expressly forbids that kind of intervention, as does the Constitution.
It will be a typical national Republican primary meme — fear-based, and false. When will we stop fostering victimhood as a political tactic?
- Honeybear - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 9:56 am:
It makes me so mad that folks like Bost would say that. Clergy do not HAVE to marry anyone that their faith forbids. The Supreme court case only applied to the State issueing of the marriage liscense which is what ACTUALLY legally marries a couple. The religious ceremony is merely a nicety. Sure, it’s the whole point to some people, but the confusion comes by conflating the legal function of the state with the religious ceremony. Calm down people, Unitarian Universalist and United Church of Christ clergy have been waiting for this for years to perform LGBT weddings. They will handle the religious side. Relax and attend your flock in peace.
- Huh? - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 9:58 am:
“But, my fear is that ministers that come from a faith that do not believe it’s right, can be forced to perform marriage ceremonies, and thus violate what they believe is their oath before God.”
From the Supreme Court Ruling on gay marriage
“… Finally, it must be emphasized that religions, and those who adhere to religious doctrines, may continue to advocate with utmost, sincere conviction that, by divine precepts, same-sex marriage should not be condoned. The First Amendment ensures that religious organizations and persons are given proper protection as they seek to teach the principles that are so fulfilling and so central to their lives and faiths, and to their own deep aspirations to continue the family structure they have long revered. The same is true of those who oppose same-sex marriage for other reasons. …” http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/14pdf/14-556_3204.pdf
Put simply, nobody is going to be forced to perform a gay marriage if they don’t want to.
- ZC - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 9:58 am:
If you want to argue that, on net and on average, a society where most kids grow up in two-parent homes are better off, I have no issue. In part it’s a question of parental physics. A five-year old is a constant motor. You have two people to keep an eye on him and distribute up all the responsibilities, that’s all to the good.
But I’m pretty sure (just a hunch) that in the 1930s J D Unwin never studied the worldwide correlation between homosexual marriage and the decline of the two-parent family. And that collapse seemed well underway before _Obergefell v. Hodges_.
- Joe cannon - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 9:59 am:
I love that at the end of the mayors speech extolling virtues of prohibition he suggests they could sit back and speculate ove son chardonay. Classic
- Wensicia - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 9:59 am:
The last, desperate attempt to keep alive fear and loathing among the anti-gay faction. What part of “move on” don’t these people get?
- Mokenavince - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 10:02 am:
I’m truly amazed how uninformed and backward our elected official’s can be. Life liberty and the persecute of happiness, that’s the American way.
Regardless of color gender enicthity . Where were these knuckle head’s when the court approved of Citizens United? And Bost is a joke.
- Skeptic - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 10:08 am:
“Life liberty and the persecute of happiness, that’s the American way.” I sure hope that was a “Damn you autocorrect” moment…
- Ghostbusters - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 10:09 am:
Rich said “The mayor may not quite understand his home turf.”
Most suburban and small town mayors don’t.
The voting population in local elections (compared to a city’s total population) is so tiny and skewed that his base may be perfectly fine with the gibberish he rambled on about.
5-7% of a town’s total population can get somebody elected.
- Jack Stephens - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 10:16 am:
The marriage license refers to the civil contract and has no bearing to the religious ceremony or license.
It will be a joyous day when the “Christians” quit forcing their Lifestyle Choice on others!
- Tournaround Agenda - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 10:21 am:
Somebody PLEASE get Lentz a history book about Prohibition.
- the Other Anonymous - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 10:22 am:
Ooo, Mayor Lenz is relying on an anthropologist from the 1930s to conclude that same sex marriage is wrong! Well, that settles it — especially considering that there were no academic studies after the 1930s that completely exploded many myths we hold about human sexuality.
That last sentence? Snark, for those who fail to recognize it.
- VanillaMan - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 10:23 am:
These men are trolls. Do not feed them.
- No Raise - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 10:23 am:
Face it. The mayor makes some legitimate points, particularly about the downfall of the family. Nothing assures continued poverty and lack of success more than out-of-wedlock births, and a culture that promotes this or glorifies this will slowly be consumed by societal ills. For those who have worked in paternity court, you know this is the truth.
- Langhorne - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 10:31 am:
Hey mayor: police, fire, traffic, business regulation, housing, sewage, and the founders day celebration. Thats your responsibilty. Marriage? Have a chardonnay, and shut up.
Hey mike: you can acknowledge the mistaken, but sincerely held, views of your constituents. But you should be better informed, and bring more to the discussion than pandering.
- Threepwood - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 10:37 am:
I used to think people like Bost were lying when they talked about ministers being forced. And maybe they still are. But after watching some of the post-decision fallout, I think plenty of them really believe it. Despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary, Constitutional, legal, you name it, they believe it.
Part of it, I think, is the echo chamber many of them live in. When Eric Hansen made his Facebook rant, I could count on one hand the number of commenters who questioned his assertion that he’d be breaking the law. The rest of his roughly hundred commenters were in full agreement or unquestioning support.
And part of it is threat to one’s identity and beliefs. For many if not most people, those aren’t merely challenges to facts, those are perceived and processed on a gut level as existential threats. This is why you see so much rhetoric on the far right fringe about how (somehow) gay marriage really IS part of a plot to persecute and eventually kill Christians. More mainstream conservative Christians recognize that’s goofy, but the emotional prod is still there, and the fear of major cultural shifts causing them to eventually lose supremacy is very real, and not unjustified.
I think this is where Lentz is coming from. And at least some like him really would be happy in those deeply religiously conservative countries out there…if it was the “right” religion. Cultural and religious orthodoxy matters more to some people than ANYTHING else politically, which is how you get countries like those.
- Michael Westen - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 10:39 am:
Langhorne, you seem like a smart person. But if you don’t acknowledge that a nearly 50% out wedlock birth rate presents serious problems for every level of government, including villages, then you need to wise up.
Pointing out the problem is not “bashing single mothers.” Another attempt to shut down debate by throwing out straw man labels.
I’m sure you know better.
- Jack Stephens - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 10:45 am:
@threepwood:
I agree with you.
If by “Religious Liberty” the Christians mean that a woman can be refused service for not wearing a Hajib in a Muslim owned business….that’s one story.
But that’s not what The Huckleberries of the world want. They want special rights for Christians which will not work in a Secular country like this.
- Just Observing - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 11:02 am:
@Michael Western — Even if you believe out of wedlock birth is serious problem for Village Mayors to address, the 4th of July celebration is not the appropriate forum.
- Langhorne - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 11:15 am:
MW, of course out of wedlock birthrate is a problem. But lentz is wacko to link it to gay marriage. He may want to go back to a norman rockwell fairy tale existence, but thats not where we are and not going to happen. Leadership should come from other institutions–churchs, schools, health agencies, social service agencies, etc. Good jobs and affordable housing are also important. Lentz’ moralistic approach is off base.
- Wordslinger - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 11:16 am:
Guy, unlike the past, the present day and age includes websites and email for an officeholder to communicate with constituents. They cost the taxpayers virtually nothing.
Given that, there’s no justification for an alleged small-government, tax-cutting conservative like Bost to be tuning up the taxpayers for his thinly disgused campaign direct mail.
- Wordslinger - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 11:18 am:
– Prohibition worked, he said.–
Al Capone and Lucky Luciano would agree.
- Shore - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 11:19 am:
everyone uses franked mail for campaign purposes. It’s usually put together by outside consultants or staff with campaign material, and its abuse “while investigated” usually isn’t what leads to the downfall of a member. Generally members that abuse it, end up losing for other reasons because it’s either part of a pattern of bad behavior or part of a strategy designed to help prop up a member whose career is drowning.
- A Jack - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 11:22 am:
Mundelein, so close to Libertyville, yet so far from liberty.
- anon - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 11:45 am:
@Threepwood. I also have been trying to figure out why otherwise rational people having been losing their minds over same sex marriage. Educated people howling that the Supreme Court has no authority to decide what the Constitution means. Of course even if left up to the states, it’d be just a matter of time until they’d lose anyway given public opinion polls. Talk about an entitlement tantrum. No surprise it’s only white men having melt downs.
- Federalist - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 12:43 pm:
Lentz went on to discuss people having children without being married, saying “the out-of-wedlock birthrate is just crazy high compared to our history.” Such parents are part of a “crisis against the family” in the U.S., Lentz said.
The only part of his statements that I agree with.
Too bad this issue always gets mired down in religion- it is way to important for that.
- Jack Stephens - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 12:58 pm:
@anon:
Couldn’t agree more. In fact I thought the purpose of the Supreme Court of the United States of America was to determine the Constitutionality of the various issues.
I doubt you’ll find a “conservative” anywhere who disputes the Citizens United ruling, even though it’s not mentioned in
The Bible…..,
anywhere!
- Last Bull Moose - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 1:12 pm:
Will the socially liberal societies be displaced and replaced with more religious and socially/sexually conservative societies? Watch Europe. It is in a state of transformation similar to the time when Rome fell.
In Illinois, over 50 percent of births are paid for by Medicaid. This includes 96 percent of births to mothers under eighteen. When half the children start life in poverty, we have a huge problem.
We cannot return to the Norman Rockwell days. And not all of that was good. But the trends are worrisome.
I do not want my country, which shed much blood to end slavery, to create a large group of citizens trapped in lives of violence and poverty.
- Wordslinger - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 1:37 pm:
LBM, your nostalgia for the enslaving, Christian-feeding-to-the-lions, imperialistic, military dictatorship that was the Roman Empire is touching, but I’m afraid your history is out of whack. In fact, it couldn’t be more wrong.
If you read your Gibbon, who literally wrote the book on the rise and fall, you’ll note that he gives the greatest weight to the rise of Christianity among the reasons for the demise of the emperors.
In fact, by the time Rome recognized Christianity as the state religion, the emperors goose was cooked, as the population turned their attention from a kingdom on earth and the glory of Rome to kingdom-come and the glory of God.
Cmon man, use your head — who was the big heat in Rome and Europe after the last emperor? The Pope.
- Last Bull Moose - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 3:42 pm:
Word. Read Gibbons decades ago. No nostalgia for the Roman Empire. Slavery cost the Empire the citizens that might have fought off the invading tribes.
Then the new religion came out of the Middle East and the physical invasion from the East. Now both religion and people are coming from Africa and the Middle East.
Point was that cultures and populations change. Europe is changing. Don’t miss the ancient Romans. Fond of the current Europeans.
- Anonin' - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 4:53 pm:
If Mayor Lenz is so concerned about morality he might want to romp over to the seminary — that is the dumping ground for the clergy who cannot be let out in public anymore
- IndependenceIst - Tuesday, Jul 7, 15 @ 10:34 pm:
@JoeCannon - great catch on the invite for a glass of wine after a prohibition rant. OMG!!!
- Late to the Party - Wednesday, Jul 8, 15 @ 8:13 am:
== my fear is that ministers that come from a faith that do not believe it’s right, can be forced to perform marriage ceremonies, ==
Pharmacists can refuse to sell medicine they don’t think you need.
Ministers should be able to refuse to marry specific people.