136 Comments - Facts are Stubborn Things - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:20 am: This is what happens when one side does not treat the budget as the problem, and holds the budget process hostage to non budget items that will take a change in the legislature to enact. - SAP - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:22 am: “We can’t even shut down government right,” Harris said. That one gets my vote for Quote of the Year. - Excessively Rabid - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:22 am: They can’t even agree on what they’re not talking about. This is the sort of thing that might be amusing if it were happening in some other state. But it’s here. - Louis G. Atsaves - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:23 am: Perhaps it is time for individual members of the legislature to begin offering compromises and/or solutions to the budget impasse? Rep. Lang yesterday indicated that he and the Governor’s office would be discussing revisions to the medical marijuana bill. Discussion? Talking? Communicating? What a wild concept! - Nickname#2 - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:23 am: Is Rep Harris suggesting that they are “trying” to shut down government? That makes things a little more clear. - The Middle - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:24 am: It could be the first real pressure point will be the state universities. They’re accepting MAP vouchers with no cash backing them up and with no budget or friendly court orders they’re not getting their regular state grants from the comptroller. Not sure how much longer they can go. Next semester will be a disaster. - Kayleigh - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:25 am: What I’m interested in is finding out who gains the most from the impasse. Not just politically, but financially. Someone must be winning something here. And I’m with SAP - Rep. Harris’s quote is perfect. - Jack Stephens - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:27 am: Perhaps if Bruce proposed a Constitutionally Mandated balanced budget, instead of dorm room Randian class warfare. If your not interested in doing the job Bruce…..then resign. The state needs a dedicated person with leadership skills. Thanx, Jack - Mason born - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:29 am: @BRauner And Oswego Willy told me this governing thing would be hard. #winning On a serious note those were the rumble strips and speed bumps that came and went. Sooner or later someone is going to have to steer before we get to the ditch. - Wordslinger - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:29 am: It’s definitely a new day when the House GOP leader says the GOP governor “has to get something in return” before addressing a budget deficit the comptroller says is now pushing $6 billion. That’s truly redefining concepts such as “conservative,” “fiscal responsibility” and “leadership.” Who knew there were entitlements associated with just doing your job? - Anonymous - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:30 am: There is a pressure point the Governor is trying to keep mum, MAP. Beth Purvis has ordered IBHE and ICCB to remain silent about the effect of the impasse on MAP, the affected students, and the colleges/universities. No advocating for the MAP bill either. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:32 am: A governor not too concerned about a budget is dictating the timetable. I can’t remember a governor, from Thomoson to 1st Term Blagojevich, that had no concern for the agencies that were under their watch and actually funding those agencies and programs. Usually, (I can’t believe how remedial this is) a governor has met with the Four Tops because all sides are close to getting a budget to a vote, or things are dire and a meeting is needed to break a logjam. There’s just none of that taking responsibility by this governor. Perspective? This goveror has appointed agency heads, given ideas as he would like to see government run in the Executive under his watch, but the financial responsibilities are just not a priority unless the blowing up of a public necessity is possible. Then? Go to court, sign one Approp bill, I mean, why would anyone want to be governor if doing the necessities isn’t a priority. This is malpractice by the Governor’s Office, plain and simple. The governor has chosen to give his own appointees nothing in the financial to do the people’s business. That’s a choice. It’s as bad as when Rod had to be cut out because of incompetence, and when Quinn had to be removed because of Quinn’s lack of conviction of working for reasonable solutions and grandstanding. This governor? It’s leverage and pain. He’s said so. The difference? Divided government doesn’t guarantee one branch helps the other co-equal out of their malaise. If I was head of an agency, I’d have to ask myself, “Is this what I signed up for? How can I do my job when my boss wants me as a hostage too?” It’s mind-boggling that an elected governor feels no need to have the functions of government working. - ABC Lawyer - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:32 am: ==This is what happens when one side does not treat the budget as the problem, and holds the budget process hostage to non budget items that will take a change in the legislature to enact.== Since it takes two to tango, you could say “This is what happens when one party is in the pocket of labor unions and trial lawyers, and refuses to discuss reforms that may change the business as usual approach that led us to a $6 billion deficit.” - OneMan - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:35 am: Or you could just point out the last budget wasn’t really balanced either. The thing is, it seems easy to lay this all at the feet of the side you disagree with. - highspeed - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:35 am: Yet if ordinary workers didn`t come to work or didnt do their job they would disciplined! As politicians its a sweet gig, don`t work don`t show up, don`t worry cant be fired!! - Oswego Willy - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:36 am: ===…”… and refuses to discuss reforms that may change the business as usual approach that led us to a $6 billion deficit.”=== Where in the budget are those line items found? What agency is funded by that? The Turnaround Agenda is NOT a budgetary reality. It’s not. - Mason born - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:38 am: ABC Honest question when does Rauner become culpable for anything in your eyes? They’re not even meeting. How is stamping your feet and demanding the other side copitulates before negotiations start work in your field? - Relocated - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:39 am: Louis Altsaves, the budget negotiations have always been done at the causus level. It’s naive to think that individual members can move enough votes into some hypothetical consensus where a budget magically appears. The Governor is holding the budget hostage to a political agenda that is not related to the budget. If he would negotiate in good faith on the budget he would likely get some portion of what he wants, but the my way or the highway rhetoric is causing the state to be ruled by judicial whim. - Century Club - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:39 am: With due respect to Rep. Harris, I think Rauner is shutting down the government exactly the way he wants to. He’s done it in a way that most people aren’t affected by the shutdown and the people that are affected are overwhelmingly not his political base. - A Jack - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:40 am: Or you could say this is what happens when one party is in the pocket of big business and the wealthy, that being Rauner and the Republicans he controls. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:41 am: ===Perhaps it is time for individual members of the legislature to begin offering compromises and/or solutions to the budget impasse?=== So you admit Governor Rauner is incompetent? Ok, I can see that. - walker - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:42 am: This house of cards cannot stand. Foolish to think it will just go on without a budget resolution. Some people aren’t getting paid. Service providers are running out of cash and credit. Accounts payable are rising. Projects just might stop. Courts clumsily intruding into cash management could put timely bond payments at risk. Something will tip it all over the edge, and when it goes, it crashes hard. Harris was part of the team that tried to set up a working government in Iraq under Bremer. He’s seen dysfunctional government before. Doubtful he wants ours to shut down or fail. - Unbalanced - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:43 am: Hello it’s been awhile so I thought I would remind everyone that Scott Drury is a former prosecutor. - Anon - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:43 am: ===“We can’t even shut down government right,” Harris said. “It’s a weird, crazy situation that, without pressure, it won’t get resolved. The whole things seems odd.”=== I feel like this statement implies that Representative Harris thought that by failing to behave responsibly that the State would shut down in a similar fashion to the Federal Government. I wish that the article included a followup question seeking clarity — In order to determine if Rep Harris wanted to or thought that engaging in this stalemate would shut down the government. I don’t believe that the State of Illinois has an economic crisis or that it even has a budget crisis given how small the budget gap/deficit is compared to the State’s GDP. I think that the state has a governing crisis. For whatever reason there are enough folks who have been elected the state’s public office that don’t actually believe in governing or that they should be governing and this has become a disaster to the State of Illinois and one that has been completely self imposed by the state’s elected officials and no other external factors. When I read Representative Harris’ comment, I read the comment of someone saying he didn’t actually understand how a state budget works. What on earth is the goal of all of this supposed to be? To show the world how poorly our elected officials can govern? - Looking to Literature - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:43 am: The political situation in Illinois strains one’s vocabulary. However, one word come to mind–Kafkaesque. - Jack Stephens - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:43 am: @abc layer: Bruce is in bed with the elitist millionaires who receive an inordinate share of Non Funded Government Entitlements. When those are cutback we’ll have progress In restoring fiscal sanity. - Norseman - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:44 am: We have a governor who is responsible for deficit spending (do we get a Rauner legislators hoot of “unconstitutional”) because he REFUSES to engage in negotiations on the budget. We’re not dealing with a true position that he won’t support tax increase without concessions. If that was the case, he could simply offer up a balanced budget (Cullerton’s reset) and challenge the Dems to pass it. No, we have Rauner refusing to discuss a budget. So we have a situation where Rauner will let Illinois go to Hades in a handbasket unless he gets his union busting agenda, OR he wants a tax increase and wants political cover to sign one. Rauner owns this! - Oswego Willy - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:45 am: ===I don’t believe that the State of Illinois has an economic crisis or that it even has a budget crisis given how small the budget gap/deficit is compared to the State’s GDP.=== So the state of Illinois doesn’t need a budget? The federal judge requiring payments and monetary movements is how a state should operate? Article VIII, in its totality is just… fluff? - Wordslinger - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:46 am: ABC Lawyer, please explain how collective bargaining at the local level and prevailing wage for public projects resulted in the current $6 billion state GRF deficit. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:48 am: The Cullerton Reset, I believe, would’ve given the Governor the best opportunity to salvage an image of engaging in the process of the job, and, being inclusive to his co-equal partners in the processes of governing. I still do, but daylight is burning faster than even this governor wants to admit. - Out Here In The Middle - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:48 am: “No pressure, no conversation.” And there is no pressure because most of the people who are being harmed are so poor, so disadvantaged, that no one even hears them. Disgusting. - A Jack - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:48 am: It’s all up to Moody’s now. When are they going to get their act together and downgrade us? Gee whiz, those do nothing ratings people. - History Prof - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:49 am: Thank you Jack; “dorm room Randian class warfare” captures it perfectly. Can I borrow that? - Louis G. Atsaves - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:49 am: “===The Turnaround Agenda is NOT a budgetary reality.===” and “===The Governor is holding the budget hostage to a political agenda that is not related to the budget.===” The Kool-Aid drinkers keep repeating this to the point where it has been elevated as some sort of mantra. Reforms that would attract businesses into Illinois who would hire employees and begin paying taxes DOES relate to the budget. Reforms on redistricting and gerrymandering DOES relate to how government operates, including passing (or in this case dysfunctionally not having a budget). Property tax freezes DO relate to the budget and impacts governments up and down the ladder. There are more examples, but go ahead and ridicule the few I just posted. Just first put down those Kool-Aid glasses and let your heads clear a bit. - olddog - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:49 am: It looks like we’re getting the kind of gridlock Thomas E. Mann and Norman J. Ornstein described on the national level in 2012. Rauner — and his PAC money — are turning the Illinois Republican Party into “”an insurgent outlier- ideologically extreme; contemptuous of the inherited social and economic policy regime; scornful of compromise; unpersuaded by conventional understanding of facts, evidence and science; and dismissive of the legitimacy of its political opposition”; and the Democrats aren’t helping much either: “”Acrimony and hyperpartisanship have seeped into every part of the political process. Congress is deadlocked and its approval ratings are at record lows. America’s two main political parties have given up their traditions of compromise, endangering our very system of constitutional democracy.” A balanced summary and links at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_Even_Worse_Than_It_Looks - ABC Lawyer - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:51 am: Mason Born, No I do not think Governor Rauner is perfect or without fault, but at the same time you should recognize that Madigan has been running the show for a long time, and this state is a mess. Surely some fault lies at his feet and the methods he uses to keep control. I think One Man’s line says it best: ==The thing is, it seems easy to lay this all at the feet of the side you disagree with.== Both sides are at fault, and the sooner both sides admit that the better. - Louis G. Atsaves - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:51 am: @relocated, “===Louis Altsaves, the budget negotiations have always been done at the causus level.===” Good point. But aren’t individual legislators members of a caucus? Do they sit mute in caucus meetings? Can they exhibit a leadership role as a member of a caucus? - Anon - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:51 am: It takes at least one side to appear to care what happens. BOTH sides are equally negligent. If they really wanted to - you know, in the interest of moving forward - the Legislature could pass a balanced budget without the governor and force him to sign or veto it. They’re capable. They’ve done it before. They just don’t want to. That would mean cuts and a tax increase or just a HUGE tax increase with no cuts, and they don’t want to take heat for that. Ignoring the Legislature’s culpability in this mess is either agenda -driven or just dense. The whole thing is beyond ridiculous. Illinois. STILL a laughingstock. - jdcolombo - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:51 am: So I am curious (honestly). I assume at some point the government simply runs out of money, right? If we are spending at a $6 billion deficit level, and there is no more tax money to be had, then at some point the bank account simply runs dry. When does that happen? April of 2016? ($6 billion is about 1/6 of a $36 billion spend rate; 1/6 of a year is two months; so end of April? Leaving no money in the bank for May and June). Or does the well run dry sooner? - Austin Blvd - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:52 am: Madigan’s next press conference should be: Bruce, send us a budget to take a look at. - Kippax Blue - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:52 am: –The calendar has been filled with pressure points that were supposed to help push the governor and Democrats toward compromise– I believe this should read “governor and General Assembly”, not “governor and Democrats”. There will be no budget if the overwhelming majority of GOP members are not on board– especially where raising revenue is concerned. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:53 am: ===The Kool-Aid drinkers keep repeating this to the point where it has been elevated as some sort of mantra.=== Do you include Ounce of Prevention in this too, or do you have to pretend their blaming of the President’s husband is not real? ===Reforms that would attract businesses into Illinois who would hire employees and begin paying taxes DOES relate to the budget. Reforms on redistricting and gerrymandering DOES relate to how government operates, including passing (or in this case === What agency’s budget and what live in the budget can I find that? If you can’t tell me, then it’s a hostage item not related to anything budgetary. ===. Property tax freezes DO relate to the budget and impacts governments up and down the ladder. There are more examples, but go ahead and ridicule the few I just posted.=== You may want to talk to Mayor Emanuel on that Property Tax thingy… Seems that isn’t workable for Chicago, lol - walker - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:53 am: OW: I read him to mean that we don’t really have a budget “crisis” in the sense that the impasse is primarily due to management and leadership fails, and neither in a general economic inability to make one, nor even in major differences in proposed numbers. - NeverPoliticallyCorrect - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:55 am: They may not feel pressure but the 20,000 children and their families in the Early Intervention system are feeling the pressure. There have been no payments since July 1 and today it was indicated that therapy providers for this system are having their remaining FY 15 payments withheld. This system is one of the few that actually works in IL and the politicians are destroying it! - Oswego Willy - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:55 am: - ABC Lawyer - “Pat Quinn failed.” - Candidate Rauner on budgetary decisions, including lump sum budgets. So… what changed? Governors own. - Politix - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:55 am: My prediction is when Rauner is forced to deal with the financial fallout from court mandates, etc., he will raise taxes 10 points and blame AFSCME. - Cassandra - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:56 am: I wondered why we hadn’t heard anything about a hiring freeze despite our supposed budget crisis. You’d think they’d at least slow down hiring. And maybe they have. How many new employees would normally be hired during this period, looking at historical data. While they are looking, perhaps we should look at data on promotions. You can spend a lot of taxpayer money on promotions. My guess is that Rauner is not all that interested in the mechanics of government-a big picture guy-and that’s ok, but shouldn’t somebody in his admin be trying to improve efficiency. What are those highly-paid aides and agency chiefs actually doing. On the other hand, why bother. Both parties want to raise taxes. And Mayor Rahm just did. Time for the state to transfer a big chunk of middle class cash to the government-perhaps those in the know are confident that it will be enough-taxpayer pockets are deep-and hence are spending as usual. More than usual, even. - Mason born - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:57 am: ABC I completely agree that both sides are at fault. My problem is the Gov. has stated nothing moves till I get my turnaround agenda and has stuck to that. It is demanding absolute capitulation before negotiating begins. As I was trying to point out try that in your next settlement meeting. - Mango47 - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:57 am: @Louis G Atsaves It would also be nice if the Governor would start trying to attract jobs and start saying what positive things there are about this state. Have you even seen the state website? He has tried to turn people against one another and actually promotes bankruptcy. I don’t disagree with parts of what your saying, but he also has to come down to planet Earth. What about the money he is spending on the legislature? How about outlawing campaign contributions totally? How about putting in the rule, if there is no budget in place, legislators don’t get paid? - OneMan - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:58 am: Ok… Lets say this situation was reversed. You had a Republican legislature and a Democratic governor and the Democratic governor had a reform package that lets say made Illinois a non-right to work state (lets say it was) and perhaps granted more rights to state workers would you then say, those were not budgetary issues and should be off the table. or is that ‘different’ - Wordslinger - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:58 am: Louis, using capital letters doesn’t make it so, But to take just one of your points (they’re all obtuse): how would a local property tax freeze impact the state budget? - Norseman - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 9:58 am: Louis, LOL. I needed some humor this morning. - A Jack - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 10:01 am: About the only winner in this is me because I will be able to pick up Illinois bonds even more cheaply when Moody’s drops Illinois’ rating. Granted, Illinois taxpayers will be on the hook for this, but they are too worried about punishing state employees to see the big picture. - Streator Curmudgeon - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 10:02 am: ==This is malpractice by the Governor’s Office, plain and simple.== OW, it seems closer to nonfeasance to me. I found these three short definitions on gingersoftware.com: Malfeasance: wrongful conduct by a public official Misfeasance: doing a proper act in a wrongful or injurious manner Nonfeasance: A failure to act when under an obligation to do so; a refusal (without sufficient excuse) to do that which it is your legal duty to do Now of course both sides argue that they have sufficient excuse to not do their constitutionally mandated duties on the budget, but a court might find differently. Would any activist group charge these officials with one of these three offenses? Could they? Would such a campaign gain popular support? I’m guessing it would. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 10:04 am: - OneMan -, Can this Democratic Governor get 60 and 30 votes to pass these? Math is math is math. It’s not the policies on their face, it’s the idea there’s no avenue to get them passed, so holding the budget hostage is the choice. It literally comes down to 60/30 and understanding the budget leverage in divided government hasn’t changed the math. With respect. - Mason born - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 10:05 am: Louis Ok I’ll give the gov the benefit of the doubt that he believes what you just stated. It still doesn’t mitigate the fact that he doesn’t have the g.a. support or public support to ram it through without the dems. How is demanding all that that has no chance of passing governing? Or put simply at what point is it Rauners responsibility to find the elements that are possible and shelve the ones that are impossible? Surely you don’t suggest holding firm no matter how bad the growing defecit gets? - Relocated - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 10:05 am: Louis Altsaves. Caucuses elect leaders to negotiate on their behalf. It’s easy to believe that Cullerton and Madigan bend the caucuses to their will but the reality is they lead by concensus more than than they crack the whip. A key talking point for the Rauner folks is that he represents the will of the people because he won the election. Even though he hid, and in some cases outright lies about his anti union agenda. But those same Rauner supporters refuse to believe that legislators were elected to represent their districts with in this blue state. If the governor is so sure of the will of the people run each of his turnaround agenda items as a separate bill straight up and see how they fare. - Anon - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 10:06 am: ===So the state of Illinois doesn’t need a budget?=== I apologize if I was unclear. I am meaning to say that I believe that the State’s budget crisis is entirely manufactured. While the state’s fiscal condition is certainly made worse by the current tom-foolery, the state’s fiscal health has been on the decline for decades and our elected officials have chosen to kick that can down the road. The State certainly does need a budget and it certainly does have a constitutional requirement to have one — but what’s going on in Springfield isn’t a budget problem. It’s a governing problem. The Governor and Legislature — regardless of who one believe’s is at fault has failed to govern. I understand that because we’re absent a budget we could call it a budget crisis. That pretends that this is about the budget. That the disagreement is over specific outlays, spending priorities, or tax rates — and it’s not. - Grandson of Man - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 10:08 am: “This is what happens when one party is in the pocket of labor unions and trial lawyers, and refuses to discuss reforms that may change the business as usual approach that led us to a $6 billion deficit.” The GA will not strip union rights, so why delay the budget when you can’t get the concessions? There are different reforms that can help the state, but they’re not part of the budget negotiations. A progressive income tax and recreational marijuana legalization ($800 million in annual sales, anyone?) aren’t even on the radar, but people aren’t snagging the budget because if this. - nona - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 10:09 am: == It’s all up to Moody’s now.== When Moody’s downgrades IL again Rauner and his minions will deny any responsibility, attributing all the blame to Madigan. The newspaper editors will follow suit. So the next downgrade may not lead to a budget, just to more finger pointing. - ABC Lawyer - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 10:09 am: ==ABC Lawyer, please explain how collective bargaining at the local level and prevailing wage for public projects resulted in the current $6 billion state GRF deficit.== In general for public sector bargaining, when politicians give out unsustainable pensions it drives up the cost of running a government. In order to pay for that, taxes must be raised and real profits and wages go down. When you raise the costs of doing business in this state, and it causes businesses and people to leave. When they do, capital and innovation leaves with them. Less “rich” people and “greedy” employers, causes the tax burden to go up on the rest of us. If you don’t raise taxes to pay for this, you have a DEFICIT. Taxes are too high already when you consider federal, state and property taxes. At least the governor is willing to have a conversation about reigning this in. As far as prevailing rate, that is a way for unions to demand that local governments pay the wage rate negotiated by private unionized employers (like Walsh and Power). That drives up costs for all of us. Let’s not forget that prevailing rate for most jobs includes the whole wage package which brings us close to $70.00 the hour. That is bad for tax payers. - OneMan - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 10:09 am: OW Sorry don’t really think the people who place this all on the governor are thinking budget math as much as they are thinking the personal economic impact of what he wants to change. Do you think that if he wanted to streighen union protections for state workers and the legislature was against that and we were in that same situation the people complaining about the governor in all of this wouldn’t start complaining about the legislature? - Cassandra - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 10:11 am: jdcolombo They borrow, sweep the funds, postpone some payments. While they wait for the big tax increase bonanza to roll in. - Lucky Pierre - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 10:11 am: Workers comp reform has a direct impact on the budget as it would save the government money - jdcolombo - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 10:13 am: OK, after thinking about it, I realize that the bank account never completely runs dry because tax receipts come in every month via withholding, sales tax receipts and so forth. But at some point, these receipts can’t be enough to pay most of the bills - e.g., salaries for state employees, plus the court-mandated payments, plus money for the schools. It doesn’t appear that the state has reached that point yet (despite Munger’s claim that the bank account already was “dry” for the Ligas payments, it looks like they magically found some cash to make those payments), but this has to happen sooner or later. I think. Maybe that’s the pressure point we all have to wait for. But I’m still curious as to when that might happen. - Jack Stephens - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 10:17 am: @abc lawyer: How do you reconcile unsustainable pensions with unsustainable Government Entitlements for the Elites (the mythical “job creators” as they are referred to in the Lamestream Media?) - walker - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 10:17 am: Louis: Just to establish some common ground — of the eight original turnaround items, some will have slight short-term fiscal impact (union relations, tax freeze), some could have potential larger impact, but only years out (tort reform, workers comp, DCEO), and some might or might not have any fiscal impact ever, and many years out best case (term limits, remapping.) So one side claims these are all non-budget items, and others claim they must be done before we have a fiscal 2016 budget. In fairness, the serious numbers folks must all know that these “turnaround” items have little calculable fiscal impact for the 2016 Budget, relative to its challenges, but that some could have growing fiscal impact years out. Others on both sides are not driven by any numbers at all, but purely by political beliefs. They create false financial pictures for public consumption that match their personal ideologies. - Anonymous - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 10:17 am: The GOP house has been indoctrinated to board room mentality sit down shutup I’ll do the thinking and you can be replaced - Tommydanger - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 10:19 am: Does the Governor have the ability to impose a hiring freeze in the wake of no budget? If so, then why wouldn’t he do so and force the issue? After all he has vetoed monies to assist ‘widows and orphans’ citing the lack of funds. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 10:19 am: ===Sorry don’t really think the people who place this all on the governor are thinking budget math as much as they are thinking the personal economic impact of what he wants to change.=== I do know they are counting noses and trying and wanting to leverage more noses to get to 60/30. That’s the whole ball game. Pain to get passage ===Do you think that if he wanted to streighen union protections for state workers and the legislature was against that and we were in that same situation the people complaining about the governor in all of this wouldn’t start complaining about the legislature?=== Here’s what I know. I know this is as true as it was under any administration; Any adminstration that is wanting something, popular or not, must get the votes to pass it. Further, People and special interest groups understand the budgetary realities that end and begin with any governor, and how that governor reacts and manages budgetary realities. Even “Ounce” clearly understands the dynamics of choices, popular or not, go through the governor. That’s about as good as any group, citizen, or governmental entity can hope for in these situations. - Wordslinger - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 10:20 am: ABC, thanks for coloring book version Econ 101. How does the governor’s plan to raise taxes in exchange for the union-busting measures fit in? - Oswego Willy - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 10:23 am: ===read him to mean that we don’t really have a budget “crisis” in the sense that the impasse is primarily due to management and leadership fails, and neither in a general economic inability to make one, nor even in major differences in proposed numbers.=== Thanks, appreciate the assist. OW - Norseman - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 10:25 am: === or is that ‘different’ === Nope! - Anonymous Redux - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 10:27 am: Perhaps it is time for individual members of the legislature to begin offering compromises and/or solutions to the budget impasse? Uhh…isn’t that why we elect a Governor? Who else do you suggest do the Governors job? - Norseman - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 10:30 am: === But to take just one of your points (they’re all obtuse): how would a local property tax freeze impact the state budget? === Word, Louis is too starry-eyed to answer with the real reason. Here’s why RAUNER’S version of property tax freeze is important. It contains provisions killing collective bargaining so when Rauner cuts funding to the locals to help balance the state budget, he can blow off their criticisms by pointing to their ability to screw their employees. - LIberty - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 10:34 am: You have to appreciate the comment from Harris that they can’t even shut the government down right. - Shemp - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 10:39 am: “We can’t even shut down government right,” Harris said. Second the nomination for quote of the year. - Mason born - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 10:41 am: Louis After condidering your earlier comment I think your absolutely right. It is time for caucus members to make some proposals to get us out of this. Looks like we need 3-5 brave Republicans to go talk to MJM about ending this charade. That is what you meant right?? - Honeybear - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 10:46 am: -Reforms that would attract businesses into Illinois who would hire employees and begin paying taxes DOES relate to the budget- The “reforms” would only effect a small portion of the economy of the state. The “attraction” factor to other companies is red herring as well. It’s a factor but the Turnaround Agenda items are well down the list with site selectors. Companies move to Illinois for fairly specific reasons that benefit them, ie. distribution, industry focus/clusters, workforce considerations. But the biggests reason we don’t want to play on that field is that you’ve got forty nine other states actually doing a better job at it. Our state’s DCEO has been uncompetetive for years. Franks has got a point that should be considered. Just get rid of it. In the past decade it’s been just a funnel for patronage money and patronage hiring. I don’t think they even have anyone working to help small businesses. THOSE are the folks we need to help. Mainstreet not Wallstreet. Dagnabbit, I was gonna start trying to cut down on my diatribes. Point is, the Turnaround Agenda is not something that can substitute for a budget and shouldn’t be allowed to hold the state hostage. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 10:46 am: - Norseman -, Well done fleshing out what the “next step” meanings of the Turnaround Agenda. Thanks for that context - Qui Tam - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 10:50 am: =workers comp reform has a direct impact on the budget as it would save the government money= Is there any evidence to support this? If so what agenc(ies) and what part of the FY16 budget would this resolve? - Norseman - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 10:51 am: OneMan, you’re straining yourself with all kinds of “what if’s” to try and justify your argument that it’s not Rauner’s fault for the impasse. Concentrate on what folks like Willy, Word, Mason and others have been saying. It all boils down the REAL numbers. Not the what if numbers, but the real numbers that demonstrate the gov’s reforms will not pass and the Dems cannot unilaterally pass a budget. It’s the gov who is not working on the budget because of his agenda. The gov who had the constitutional authority to balance an unbalanced budget through his IV/RV powers. He has the ability to not spend even if one of his spending vetoes is overridden. So stop worrying about assessing blame as to how we got into this mess and think about how we can get a budget. It really is about the math. - Anonymous - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 10:52 am: Have any of the name callers read “the electric Kool-aid acid test”? - Jack Stephens - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 10:56 am: @honeybear: Thanx….great post. There many, many reasons people go into business. Taxes may or may not be one of them….as the other poster implies in their comment. - Anon - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 11:06 am: - Norseman - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 10:51 am: Norseman should teach civics. - Skeptic - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 11:07 am: “politicians give out unsustainable pensions” 1) The pensions are what they are. Deal with it. Or to quote the essence of the Illinois Supreme Court decision, “Pay up.” 2) Funny, all the pension payments were being made last year. How is that “unsubstainable?” - Fmr. SPSA - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 11:13 am: Can we really discuss what consumes the budget? It is staffing in agencies. There were plenty of units, in my former dept, that could be consolidated by a RDMS. We need innovation on government. I really wish the Gov would bring in Bob & Bob from Office Space and really ask, ” What exactly would you say do you do here?” . - foster brooks - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 11:14 am: elections have consequences that goes for ALL citizens of illinois - Honeybear - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 11:18 am: FMR SPSA, Thank you so much! Totally made my morning thinking about that. Bob & Bob. You all are gonna turn me into the one guy “you stole my stapler…..i’m going to burn the building down….my…stapler….mumble…mumble… - Honeybear - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 11:20 am: But you are right. We do need some Bob & Bob, start with non-union middle management. - Demoralized - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 11:22 am: ==Can we really discuss what consumes the budget? It is staffing in agencies== Can we really discuss being clueless about the budget. It is not staffing that consumes the budget. Not even close. - Demoralized - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 11:22 am: ABC Lawyer: So you are essentially saying that you favor lowering wages. - Louis G. Atsaves - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 11:25 am: @walker, I think you understand my comments better than most. No one person makes a government dysfunctional. It takes a concentrated effort my many to achieve that goal. Willy, Word, Norseman and others disagree. Battle lines have been drawn. The siege mentality is in full force. People being hurt are cynically used as political pawns by all sides. The solution? Finger pointing no longer is effective as a political tool. - JackD - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 11:29 am: The reason they aren’t meeting and talking is that there is nothing to meet and talk about once the Governor refuses to understand what part or all of “no” means. The General Assembly is not going to agree to union busting and it is foolish for anyone to believe it will. - Louis G. Atsaves - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 11:31 am: @wordslinger, “union busting.” Where is your evidence to contradict the half dozen union agreements this administration has negotiated? None of them cried “union busting.” They instead used words like “tough,” “honest” and “fair.” - Juvenal - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 11:31 am: The governor’s cover story weakens every day. He continues to insist that he needs his Turnaround Agenda in order to provide cover for GOP lawmakers. But as he demonstrated in the vote on child care restoration, GOP lawmakers would gladly march into a bonfire if he told them to. Heck, they’d sing a happy tune doing it. - Anonin' - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 11:34 am: Since TeamBungle neutered the GOPies in House and Senate (witness Wednesday roll call) and they view the events this week as a “massive victory” it seems like a meetin’ is less likely to happen TeamBungle still wanders in with all the issues that have zero votes and nothin’ happens. Meanwhile the search for a new budget superstar and the APB for Gov “Superstar” Lingle is redistributed. - Wordslinger - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 11:36 am: Louis, I would call demands to gut collective bargaining at the local level and end prevailing wage requirements union-busting. What would you call them? You’re taking some liberties with the language today. - Ryan - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 11:38 am: Forgive my ignorance, but can the house and/or senate come up with a veto proof budget and get that into law? - @MisterJayEm - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 11:39 am: As I read him, I think OneMan asks a legitimate question, i.e. “Would you feel this way if the shoe was on the other foot?” He just doesn’t believe Dems when they answer, “Yes.” These means are unacceptable regardless of the political ends. – MrJM - UIC Guy - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 11:39 am: Anon, 9:43==I don’t believe that the State of Illinois has an economic crisis or that it even has a budget crisis given how small the budget gap/deficit is compared to the State’s GDP.== The problem is not the state’s economy (ok, it could be better, but it’s not at crisis point). the problem is that too little of the State’s GDP is being raised in taxes to pay for the services that the people of the State want. (Or maybe too many services are being provided: that’s a legitimate position, though it’s not mine.) - Honeybear - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 11:42 am: Louis are you really going to trust anything out of a Coli mouth? Loving Christ Coli is the very definition of corrupt union boss, the very definition. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 11:50 am: ===@walker, I think you understand my comments better than most. No one person makes a government dysfunctional.=== Really?!?!? According to Raunerites, it’s Speaker Madigan, the one man over 641 years who has ruined Illinois. If you’d like, I could pull some Rauner quotes blaming one man, Mike Madigan, lol - Demoralized - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 11:51 am: ==Where is your evidence== I think that the signals are mixed, but I do think there is evidence of a desire to bust the unions. If you look at something like the Teamsters contract then, yes, I’d agree with you. But, that contract hasn’t occurred in a vacuum. The Governor is also on record (and in bill form) stating that he wants to eliminate items that can be collectively bargained, get rid of prevailing wage requirements, and at one point he advocated RTW. How you can view that as not being union busting is a little odd to me. - Mason born - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 11:52 am: Ryan Yes the general assembly can shove a budget through over the the Gov. veto. However as we saw Wednesday it will require the help of Republican’s at least a handful. As we also saw Rauner and Durkin do not believe in allowing the republicans to think or act for themselves. As it stands unless a brave handful of Republicans grow a spine the stalemate continues. - walker - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 12:08 pm: Louis: Thanks, I stretch to understand comments, but my comment was about fiscal realities versus spin, more than about personalities and assigning blame. - Louis G. Atsaves - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 12:16 pm: @Wordslinger, you didn’t answer my question. “Gut?” Take a breath. Put down the glass. Enough “union busting” and other phrases that haven’t matched the reality we see happening in front of our eyes. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 12:20 pm: - Louis G Atsaves - Are you saying legislation backed by the governor and introduced does not contain the the language of dismantling of collective bargaining and/or ending prevailing wage? It’s a “Yes” or a “No”… - History Prof - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 12:31 pm: Louis, You are either being deliberately obtuse, or just obtuse. Have you seen what the lack of collective bargaining rights has done to teachers in Wisconsin. I can tell you that after a life-time of being underpaid relative their cohort of college educated plus workers, teachers now face very real reductions in their standards of living, including paying more for their healthcare etc, and reductions to their pensions, which were promised them. But if you don’t care what happens to the people who educated you and your kids, and who will educate your grandchildren, teachers are now subject to regimentation in the workforce in the form of at-will supervision by complete incompetents who have unchecked authority over hiring and firing. The results have been and will continue to be catastrophic for the quality of education in this country. The union has been gutted and as a result, the only people actually dedicated to education have been removed from the decision making process. That is not only “union busting,” it is destroying education in America, witness the current shortage of teachers cropping up around the country. Even in a tough labor market, who would put up with this? Only the most dedicated or the most desperate, and damn few of them. And you suggest “union busting” is too strong? What planet do you live on? - A Jack - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 12:31 pm: Unsustainable pensions and high taxes. Well riddle me this: why does New York State have a fully funded pension system and a higher tax rate? Didn’t all those millionaires move to a low tax state like Illinois and bankrupt New York’s unsustainable pension system? New York’s system darn near mirrors Illinois. So unsustainable? You need to find a different argument Raunerites or admit you aren’t as smart as New York politicians. - Tournaround Agenda - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 12:32 pm: @Willy, Madigan has been ruining Illinois for 641 years? I knew he’d been in power a long time, but wow. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 12:34 pm: - Tournaround Agenda - It will be 642 this…. January. - RunBikeSwim - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 12:34 pm: Louis - Multiple times - the Governor has tried to put language into bills that would “curb” the union power in Illinois. Gutting collective bargaining and getting rid of any checks on his and his admin’s power has been and will be an obsession for the governor until Jan of 2019. Plain and simple. - Wordslinger - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 12:35 pm: Louis, now you’re just being a troll. If you choose not to inform yourself on what Gov. Rauner has been proposing, it’s not up to me to spoon feed you. But the governor’s peeps have put it in writing. I’m sure you can find it, if you’re interested. - RunBikeSwim - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 12:36 pm: Oswego - I tip my hat to you sir. Day after day, you are on point. Thank you for your candor! Enjoy a cold one this weekend! - Oswego Willy - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 12:41 pm: - RunBikeSwim -, Thanks, I’ll accept your very kind compliment as a compliment to all the great commenters here that do a great job educating me daily. Enjoy your holiday weekend as well. - burbanite - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 12:42 pm: How much money is being lost in this state due to the downgrades that have been happening as a result of the non-movement of the budget and lack of engagement by the Executive? It is insanity. When an individual has a high credit score they pay substantially less to borrow money, this translates to the gov’t in the form of the bond downgrades. So how much? I am thinking more than is being gains by the cuts to the child care program. (I can google its just that its affecting at so many different levels, Chicago, the State, Counties…its difficult to discern really how much). It doesn’t cost a dime to talk. - Skeptic - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 12:43 pm: OW: Maybe you’re adding up Madigan-and-the-Democrats-He-Controls? You know like Rauner and his “100 years” thing? - Oswego Willy - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 12:49 pm: - Skeptic -, I think I may have used a multiplier on that too, I dunno. I do remember the 625th anniversary of Madigan in charge, but I still can’t “tell” those stories… - burbanite - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 12:50 pm: “They instead used words like “tough,” “honest” and “fair.”” Coli is not a “they”. Coli is a “he”. These are not the words I am hearing from the Unions and I can’t repeat what some are saying about him, I don’t want to be banned. - Louis G. Atsaves - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 12:51 pm: @History Prof, thank you for attempting to portray me as “uncaring.” I riled up a few folks here (including you) by attacking the extreme language of “union busting” and other words with the actions of Governor Rauner’s Administration of reaching contractual agreements with a half dozen unions. Their leadership called Rauner “tough,” “fair” and “honest.” Actions speak louder than words and so far the actions of this administration belie the “union busting” and other over the top charges being made against it. What is “proposed” and what is ultimately agreed to in negotiations or even initial legislation are two different things, are they not? - Oswego Willy - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 12:54 pm: - Louis G Atsaves - It’s a yes or no question, not too tough. - Wordslinger - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 12:56 pm: Louis, your informed logic has convinced me. What has all this fuss been about anyway? As your civic duty, you should get all the parties together and explain to them there really is no conflict at all. - Honeybear - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 1:02 pm: -actions of this administration belie the “union busting” and other over the top charges being made against it.- girrrrrrrrrrrrrl bye - History Prof - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 1:05 pm: Louis, You just have a far more irenic view of what Rauner hopes to accomplish. I think you are kidding yourself, if you are sincere. Walker make the same divide and conquer pitch in Wisconsin, going after only the teacher’s union, but not after the “heroes” in Fire and Police. But if an incremental tweak to the system were what he had in mind, he would not hold the budget hostage. I agree with the many other commenters here who have laid out the case for understanding Rauner’s intentions the way I do. I actually did not accuse you of being unfeeling, but if that shoe fits, go ahead and wear it. I accused you of failing to understand where your own interests lie. Unions have problems, but they also do a lot of good, from which you have and continue to benefit. At its core, here is the issue. Having destroyed the economy based on entirely faulty assumptions about the science of political economy, Republicans have been searching desperately for a villain whom they can blame for declining wages in real terms and untenable income inequalities that have developed since we stopped taxing the wealthy in any meaningful way under Reagan and extended under W.Bush. Ideologically predisposed to blame government, Rauner has tripled down on crazy and thus blames high wages for our low wage problem, an absurdity on its face. And this from a guy who has earned all of his money manipulating government. Wonders never cease. Its ideologically driven madness and like fevered mad men, the Republican caucus in Illinois has - Jack Stephens - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 1:05 pm: @louis: Regarding Bruce’s exciting Right to Work. Is this Right to Work the same exact thing as the Right to Vote? For instance the 19th Amendment to the Constitution of theUnited States of America…that gave Women the Right to Vote. Is this Right to Work giving citizens the same thing? Is it true that some people do not work because they believe they have no Right to Work? - Jack Stephens - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 1:09 pm: @history: I’ve said before and I’ll repeat it again. Scott up north didn’t have the testicular virility to take on the police and fire unions and neither does Bruce! Bruce….,why are you too chicken to to publicly take on these unions? WHAT are you afraid of? Why only the teachers? - Anonymous - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 1:10 pm: We haven’t even been told to cut back on printing or mailing yet in my agency. - Louis G. Atsaves - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 1:13 pm: @History Prof, “===At its core, here is the issue. Having destroyed the economy based on entirely faulty assumptions about the science of political economy, Republicans have been searching desperately for a villain whom they can blame for declining wages in real terms and untenable income inequalities that have developed since we stopped taxing the wealthy in any meaningful way under Reagan and extended under W.Bush. Ideologically predisposed to blame government, Rauner has tripled down on crazy and thus blames high wages for our low wage problem, an absurdity on its face.===” But when President JFK (a Democrat no less) did it in his day, it was brilliant! And you call me “obtuse?” - Norseman - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 1:35 pm: History Prof, Wordslinger pegged it a number of comments ago when he noted that Louis has crossed over to Troll status. Troll status is attained when you continually ignore facts and adopt a position no reasonable person would espouse. That’s why PowerPoint presentations espousing RTW and the end of collective bargaining regarding financial issues is not viewed as union busting by Louis. All he has to point to are contracts with small unions that have different issues than the larger employee cohort represented by AFSCME. Also, it was a convenient hedge to counter the charge of bad-faith negotiation over the more important contract. Bottom line is that we don’t feed trolls. - Enviro - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 1:36 pm: This political situation is a hostage standoff. Never surrender to hostage takers. - Demoralized - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 1:39 pm: ==Never surrender to hostage takers.== Who are the hostage takers? - Demoralized - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 1:41 pm: Louis: I gotta say, on this issue I gotta say you are completely wrong. I’m not sure why you deny the Governor has a union busting agenda. It’s clear for all to see. Perhaps your judgement is clouded here? - Oswego Willy - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 1:50 pm: - Streator Curmudgeon - Apologies, I thought I responded. I hear ya. There’s a “case” to be made on the dynamics of the word choices, but is it worse that we can debate what word describes an Administration or that we are having this discussion at all? Much respect. - HangingOn - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 2:31 pm: @Louis ==Actions speak louder than words== So you’re saying he doesn’t want to bust Unions, just low-income working parents, children, and old people. Those are the actions I’ve been seeing lately. Got it. - Leatherneck - Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 3:15 pm: Not to divert the subject, but did anyone catch a breaking Illinois Times story from one of the Scribble Live scrolls stating that Rauner is shutting down the Papers of Abraham Lincoln Project? Supposedly under the guise of “financial improprieties.” IT story: http://illinoistimes.com/article-16098-rauner-goes-after-lincoln-papers.html Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.