65 Comments - Westward - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 11:38 am: Daughter was offered considerable scholarship at SIU-E. Sending her out of state (SEC school where she’s also getting aid) for very nature of this post. School is great. State is toxic. The 2 do not mix. - 47th Ward - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 11:39 am: Even if they get it solved, a lot of damage has already been done. Some of us have been screaming about it here and elsewhere, but nobody in charge is listening. The enrollment decline at SIU isn’t a one-year thing, either. It’s a four-year problem at a minimum. And the reputational damage will last longer. - Oswego Willy - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 11:39 am: “Vote Acvordingly” Do. Not. Forget. Oswego Willy - Formerly Known as Frenchie M - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 11:41 am: Forget about the mythical “businesses leaving the state in droves”. It’s the students. It’ll always be the students. Rauner’s emphasis on voodoo economics — the trickle-down nonsense — is sorely, sorely misplaced. - What the What - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 11:41 am: The Governor and his people like to tout specious numbers of business leaving the state. Here we have real numbers of college kids (the future businesses and talent pool of the state) leaving the state. - Motambe - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 11:47 am: Have seen this all through the winter and spring. Colleges and universities in Arkansas, Indiana, Iowa, and Missouri are focused on stripping off the top 10% of Illinois high school grads. Their message is financial security and the academic program selected will still be in place in four years, not eliminated by budget cuts. - wordslinger - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 11:49 am: –“Our data is showing they’re not going to another Illinois institution. They’re leaving the state,” Colwell said,– Well, of course. For the first time ever, the state completely abandoned higher ed for 10 months, and now is applying band-aids. Why would parents and students think it won’t continue like this? Parents and students are making major life commitments. The state clearly is not committed. If they have options, why would they consider an Illinois university in this environment? That’s crazy. Our family is not for my last one. She visited Ann Arbor, East Lansing, Madison and Iowa City over spring break. - Oswego Willy - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 11:49 am: ===(SEC school where she’s also getting aid)=== Kentucky, Alabama, and Texas A&M are the ones that come to mind. Immediately. - Charlestonian - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 11:56 am: SIU enrollment issues have been going on for a long time. If they weren’t enrolling thousands of international students every year, their enrollment would be about the same as EIU’s. The Kentucky schools are eating them alive in recruitment these days. And of course the sad thing is that the Illinois schools are very good, academically they’re better than the SEC schools and Kentucky schools mentioned in this post but the perception is driving the kids out of the state. This is a problem that can laid right at the feet of the folks in Springfield. Thanks, guys. - Oswego Willy - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 12:00 pm: ===academically they’re better than the SEC schools…=== SEC schools are funded institutions, growing institutions, institutions building dorms, giving ridiculous scholarship opportunities, and are on TV for sports and recognized nationally. Can Illinois schools “better universities” claim any of those? For how long? How long can they be “better” when professors leave, majors end, dorms close, and they cost more… for less? - Handle Bar Mustache - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 12:02 pm: Don’t blame “Springfield” for this. Blame “Rauner”. He alone has starved higher ed with multiple ham-fisted vetoes. - Einstein - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 12:03 pm: @OW - Ole Miss is the new Mizzou. Mizzou’s got its own problems. Kentucky and Alabama are coming on strong. - Federalist - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 12:04 pm: Rauner wants to destroy public universities in this state for a wide variety of reasons. Madigan and Cullerton and most of the GA really don’t care that much either. It really is that simple. - Keyser Soze - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 12:10 pm: Enrollment at U of I C-U is steady. But, a high percentage of freshmen are from China. Illinois kids are streaming to Indiana, Iowa, Missouri, etc. Cost is a big factor. - OldIllini - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 12:15 pm: Enrollment at the UIUC campus is up 1.3% this spring (latest data) compared to last spring. I interpret this as minimal effect of the budget impasse. - Old and In the Way - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 12:16 pm: OW Agree with everything you said except the residence halls. In fact many universities in the SEC and elsewhere are getting out of the housing and residence hall business. Turning it over or outsourcing it to private business. Less risk, less expense and the communities love it because they collect at least some property taxes. University communities maintain expensive infrastructure to support the schools and they pay for it with property taxes. Check out the property taxes in most university communities like Charleston or Macomb, or Carbondale. In my era the state paid the communities “impact fees or funding” to offset this considerable expense. Today they don’t even pay the university to stay open! Illinois seems to be on a race to the bottom while other states are increasing state support! Wonder why students are leaving? BTW most are not going to Dartmouth or privates like the Ruiner! - Old and In the Way - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 12:19 pm: Old Illini It’s not just the number of students but the overall quality and where they come from. As an adjunct to UIUC I see the decline and also see more foreign students than ever in my 46 year connection with the university. For now UIUC had a great reputation and that is carrying it but it is slipping. - Downstater - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 12:27 pm: College bound students are leaving Illinois in droves. It’s completely understandable that they are leery to commit to an Illinois school for 4+ years under the current circumstances. High school guidance counselors are encouraging students to go out of states. Other states are actively recruiting our students. It’s an incredibly toxic situation created by politicians. Illinois higher education is being severely damaged by the stalemate in Springfield and it will take decades to undo the damage. And please look at the enrollment demographics of UIUC before holding them up as an example. They are having to aggressively recruit international students to help fill their budget gaps. It will be no surpirse when fall enrollment numbers show declines for all state universities except UIUC. - OldIllini - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 12:31 pm: Please look at the data before drawing conclusions. UIUC enrollment of Illinois undergrads, last spring to this, is down 58 out of 22702, or down 0.26%. Enrollment at UIUC of foreign students is up 160, and of California undergrads at is up 123, paying full out-of-state tuition. Total UG enrollment is up 1.1% for the same time period. The effect of the impasse on UIUC enrollment is minimal in terms of student numbers, and is positive in terms of tuition income. - Oswego Willy - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 12:37 pm: - OldIllini - Keep whistling pass the graveyard. Families touring UIUC, even Engineering are looking elsewhere at the same time… when in the past, Illinois, in-state students, would have Illinois as their #1 choice, and their only choice. Illinois families are finding out of state universities actually want Illinois residents as students. UIUC, “meh”, like YOU pointed out, “California” students seem “preferred”. Food for thought. - Thunder Fred - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 12:46 pm: People vote with their feet? That notion flies in the face of the conventional wisdom of this comment section. the Dunning Kruger super-posters tell use constantly that never happens when economic development is involved but when it involves public sector workers it’s a whole different story. Quite the phenomena we have here. - Anonymous - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 12:47 pm: ==better school== What makes a school a good school is the quality of student in it. That goes for K-12 or higher ed. As better students leave the state, quality goes down (at least for in state students.) But Illinois doesn’t care about serving it’s own students. My son attends University of Iowa. He got a decent merit scholarship that helps with out of state tuition BUT the vast majority of scholarships are for instate students. Iowa takes care of it’s own, unlike our state. With our son’s scholarship and the lower cost of room and board, we pay less at this Big Ten University than our own home state. And to boot, Iowa’s top tax rate is 8.98%. Can you even imagine the howling that would go on if we even tried to reinstate our tax rate to 5%! Another child attended Iowa and got a top rate job in another cornbelt state with a tax rate much higher than Illinois’ as well. OMG, how do people live??? Heavy snark. If you want stuff, you have to pay for it. - Pawn - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 12:49 pm: OldIliini, here’s one data point. Not a huge trend, I grant you, but a data point. My son, who has a 3.8 GPA and a 34 on the ACT, and wants to study engineering, is not even considering UIUC even though his dad went there and is a rabid fan/supporter. We have NO PLANS to consider any public institution in Illinois. As his mom, I’m sad, I don’t want him far away. And I recognize that people who leave for college have a higher chance of not coming back for jobs. NONE of his friends are looking at Illinois either. They talk to each other. It matters. - JB13 - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 12:54 pm: So there you go: People don’t leave because you tax too much. They leave because you tax too little. Print the canpaign bumper stickers. - Charlestonian - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 12:55 pm: UIUC has maintained its enrollment by opening the doors. EIU and UIUC have about the same admission requirements these days as a result. And yes the high paying international students certainly help the bottom line. We have seen the development of the open enrollment research university. All of them are becoming like the SEC in other words. - Mama - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 12:55 pm: Come November, make sure you vote for a representative who will vote for his people instead of voting the way the governor tells him/her to vote. - Anonymous - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 12:56 pm: I would say we were “courted” in our visits to Iowa and Indiana. They made our child feel welcome and would do extraordinary things for make his education great. When we toured Illinois, they gave us a map and told us we could take our own walking tour. 45 Minute slide presentation. Iowa had a deluxe tour bus, with a running video about campus and student life, lunch at the dorm, tours of housing and meetings with colleges, counselors, extracurriculars….etc. I cannot speak highly enough of the royal treatment that continued once they were students. Illinois treats kids like they should feel privileged to be on the campus. And I’m an alum. No way was I sending my kids to Illinois and I don’t care what their so -called ranking is. My kids have a great education and fond memories of a place that was honored to have them as students. That sure helps when you’re writing that painful tuition check. - Anonymous - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 12:59 pm: JB13 You get what you pay for. Are you pleased with the way our state is shutting everything down? - Precinct Captain - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 1:00 pm: Which house of Bruce’s should laid off workers send their invoices to? Winnetka? Chicago? Montana? Wyoming? - Fairness and Fairness Only - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 1:05 pm: People aren’t just leaving the state during Higher Ed years. I’m seeing it in the preceding years, too. Families are moving to states where their kids might attend schools for better economic and academic opportunities. The impact of starving K-12 and Higher Ed will be felt for years. - OldIllini - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 1:07 pm: ==Families touring UIUC, even Engineering are looking elsewhere at the same time…== is not a quantifiable statement. Yes, I suppose there are a few, which makes your statement “true.” - Annonin' - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 1:08 pm: The BigBrains must be W* themselves. They have managed to heavily damage colleges and universities in just a year. Who said they oouldn’ put one over on Cullerton and Madigan. - Leading InDecatur - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 1:09 pm: My daughter is home from SIUe. She had an outstanding experience as a freshman honors student in the Conditional Enrollment Program in their school of Pharmacy. She made the Dean’s list and will have a 4.0 GPA. They worked her as hard as she has ever been worked. Exactly what you want. All that said, we will apply to Drake, Iowa, Butler and Manchester after next year (if there is a next year) to relieve the constant uncertainty and stress due to our governor’s destruction of higher education in Illinois. I already lost a daughter to Missouri State, even though her dream school was Illinois State. Now my second child will follow… and they aren’t coming back. - Saluki - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 1:11 pm: I’ve said it before, but this republican is voting for democrats at the state level. Rauner has to be completely marginalized before anything positive is going to happen in regards to the budget, and the budget is all that matters. Raise my taxes already. I don’t think I missed any house payments when my income taxes were at 5% - Anonymous - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 1:17 pm: And this all compounds itself in hurting Illinois. My out of state educated child found a job in a state that has 3% unemployment. City he works in is 2%. These kids are not afraid go where there is opportunity and better quality of life. What we turn away in higher ed goes elsewhere and makes that environment better. As sad as we are that he doesn’t live close, all of us recognize that it is for his own good and better future. - wordslinger - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 1:18 pm: –People vote with their feet? That notion flies in the face of the conventional wisdom of this comment section. the Dunning Kruger super-posters tell use constantly that never happens when economic development is involved but when it involves public sector workers it’s a whole different story. Quite the phenomena we have here.– Feel free to document it. As it is, the state continues to regain the jobs it lost during the depths of The Great Recession, by any measure, even the reluctant ones put out by IDES. According to BLS, jobs have grown from a post-recession low of 5.85 million employed in January 2010 to 6.22 million employed in March 2016. http://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.il.htm - Anonymous - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 1:25 pm: There are people who won’t have as much if - Anonymous - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 1:27 pm: OOPS, hit wrong button, haha There are people who won’t have as much if taxes increase. But then again, some could sell off a handful of houses and still pay higher taxes and not feel a thing, if you get my drift. The passage of the millionaire tax speaks volumes but will never happen. Illinois must have the biggest cheapskate 1%ers in the country. - CM - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 1:33 pm: As a SIU graduate, the cost for my son to go to SIU was greatly reduced and very affordable. We put money down, it was all set. But when an out of state private school unexpectedly accepted him and offered some money, my son seized the opportunity in a heartbeat. I was sad but couldn’t blame him. I blame the governor, as should we all. - Filmmaker Professor - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 1:41 pm: OW: “SEC schools… are on TV for sports and recognized nationally.” True, but being on TV for sports has nothing to do with the academic quality of the university. If it were, Alabama would be Harvard. - Oswego Willy - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 1:48 pm: - Filmmaker Professor - Forbes did a piece on enrollment, applications, and athletics. If your child could go to an Illinois university and pay MORE, or go to a school, pay less, and have athletic recognition… Virginia Commonwealth was a great example when they had threir NCAA run, and the influx of applications after. My point? Enrollments are down, Universities aren’t just competing academically, when “all things are allegedly equal”, then throw in that’s it may be cheaper to go to the school with athletic exposures Sad, but true. - Hatless - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 1:51 pm: I’m another parent with a bright senior (32 ACT, 4.0 + GPA) who wasn’t interested in the U of I. And he pointed specifically at what Rauner is doing to the Universities. He views the school is being on a downhill slide while Rauner is in office. - OldIllini - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 1:54 pm: ==Enrollments are down, Universities aren’t just competing academically…== Just checked and my department in UIUC engineering is up 9.8% this year in UG enrollment. This does not represent loss of quality as we operate on a minimum ACT score for admission. Facts, as they say, are stubborn things. - Filmmaker Professor - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 1:55 pm: OW Absolutely. it is an established fact that schools that have unexpected athletic success in football or men’s basketball see temporary spikes in applications. And I agree that for some students big time athletics is a draw. My only point in this is that university academic quality and football/basketball success are not related. The majority of the highest ranked academic universities are not the football-basketball powerhouses. U of Chicago is one anecdotal example. - Oswego Willy - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 2:01 pm: - Filmmaker Professor - Ok… I’d be hard pressed to find a student choose Kentucky over Harvard, “all things… being equal”, because of Kentucky basketball… Now… You compare Illinois and Kentucky… - OldIllini - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 2:02 pm: Agree with Filmmaker Professor. Last time an Ivy League school went to the Final Four was, I believe, 1965. Earlier than that, U of Chicago and Princeton had Heisman trophy winners, but no more. - OldIllini - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 2:05 pm: Illinois is ranked 41st nationally, and Kentucky 129th. (USN&WR) - Oswego Willy - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 2:10 pm: - OldIllini - 1) Illinois ISN’T Harvard. Get over it. 2) Kentucky - Free Ride, Illinois - $50K over four year, after “scholarships 3) Understand what schools Illinois is competing against. - Anonymous - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 2:11 pm: Another problem with UIUC is the lack of consideration and priority given to instate students. I realize that our of state and international tuition brings more revenue but in turn sets a hostile tone for excellent students turned down. It has truly become nothing more than a money game. As mentioned above, Iowa gives the majority of it’s scholarships to it’s own residents. Does Illinois do anything to give a nod to it’s own homegrown excellence? - Captain Illini - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 2:12 pm: Old Illini has some very good points and facts to back them up, and I thought I’d add that for at least UIUC, Engineering and other professional degrees are incredibly competitive…thus some college ready applicants might not chose U of I because of this increased stress, regardless of the budget impasse. This however is not to downplay the situation, as I agree with others whom have opined that other states and schools are snapping up home state grads…my daughter is now one of them - Arizona bound right after another semester at J-College. - Doc Anonymous - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 2:14 pm: I’m familiar with SIUC administrators. Every year, they convince themselves that there’s good enrollment news on the horizon (or at least they try to convince others). This year they aren’t even trying. The SIUC union contract mandates a 26:1 ratio of tenured/tenure-track faculty to students. In recent years SIUC lost more faculty than students, so we blew through that ratio, and the administration failed to hire more faculty. The union filed a grievance. And the admin started negotiations this year wanting to raise that ratio. Now that seems a low priority for them: SIUC going to lose so many students so fast that the administration doesn’t need to worry about the student-faculty ratio anymore. A silver lining! (I’m joking: SIUC will likely lay off many non-tenure track faculty, meaning the overall student-faculty ratio won’t get better–it may get worse.) UIUC, as others have pointed out, can keep up its numbers by lowering admissions standards. SIUC tried that game a few years ago–it doesn’t work for SIU, which is already pretty easy to get in to, because too many of the new students drop out. I’m sure the same goes for EIU, WIU, NEIU, CSU, GSU. Rauner’s done a decade’s worth of damage in his year in office. At least the Dems were doing damage more slowly. Quite a turnaround. - Anonymous - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 2:27 pm: It was assumed, not that long ago, that if students elected to go out of state, it was because they didn’t get into Illinois. Not true. Both my children were accepted at Illinois but found nothing attractive or exceptional that drew them there. Toss in some money in recognition of their achievement, and Illinois was out. Our brightest kids are helping the rankings of other state universities. - olddog - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 2:43 pm: When I came to Illinois from Tennessee in the 1980s, I sensed that state government was allowing an excellent university system to ride on its reputation, in contrast to SEC schools like UT-Knoxville that were aggressively seeking faculty and research opportunities to compete with more highly ranked schools up north. Rauner’s willful destruction of higher ed in Illinois is unconscionable, but it wouldn’t be so devastating if we weren’t paying for decades of not-so-benign neglect. - Morningstar - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 3:02 pm: 47th Ward - I agree with your statement that nobody in charge is listening. Not only that, but many citizens are simply unaware and/or apathetic about this. While this wreckage is a daily depressor in my world, I am appalled that many in the State and even more outside Illinois have not heard about this fiasco. I just returned from a conference which included university personnel from across the Midwest, and when I explained the pressures which are occurring in Illinois, most people were aghast and said they “had never heard anything about it.” I don’t believe they are living under a rock — it’s just not reported accurately or fully as it should be. - Doc Anonymous - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 3:22 pm: A little story to show how desperate things are getting. SIUC has a student-faculty ratio in the contract with tenured/tenure-track faculty. The administration has been in violation of this ratio for a couple of years, because they haven’t hired enough faculty as faculty depart; and a union grievance is going to arbitration. Admin and union are also in negotiations over a new contract, and the admin has been trying to raise the ratio. But they’ve stopped trying, because SIUC will lose students so quickly that we won’t need to hire more faculty–maybe ever! Problem solved! It would be very surprising if SIUC and most other campuses weren’t down at least 10% next year. That’s the equivalent of a 10% cut in state funding–on top of whatever budget cuts we get. - BK Bro - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 3:31 pm: SEC schools have advantages over Illinois schools for a variety of reasons. (1) more diversified and stable revenue sources - especially sports (2) significantly lower pension obligations. Around half of all operational funds of public universities in Illinois goes to pensions. SEC schools probably way more fun anyways. - Old and In the Way - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 3:32 pm: Old Illini So following your no impact logic lets just quit sending funding to UIUC and send it instead to the regionals, EIU, WIU, SIU-E, etc. Since it’s had no impact it should not be a problem right? By the way how is faculty retention and recruitment going? Please don’t say it’s all sunshine and light. Given the pathetic Tier II pensions and funding issues I know for a fact it is not. As an almum of UIUC, with three degrees and 46 years of involvement I am not afraid to say that things are a long ways from all right. Please take the blinders off! - Old and In the Way - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 3:39 pm: BK Bro Half of all operational funds go to pensions? Where did you find this info? Please show your math and references. Enlighten us who seemed to think that the state was paying the employer pension contribution and this is why the Speaker was trying to shift the responsibility to the schools! As for pensions at other institutions I can only say that I have seen what is being offered to entice young faculty away from UIUC and its way better that what is currently being offered to new hires here in Illinois. Have you ever seen what Tier II looks like? Pathetic. - CapnCrunch - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 3:57 pm: “Families touring UIUC, even Engineering are looking elsewhere at the same time…” More than 38,000 students applied to the UI this year, a record,..with 10 percent more students applying to the UI than in 2015. ..The number of Illinois applicants rose 9 percent, from 16,688 to 18,203. There are 4000 applicants for 200 slots in Computer Science. “For the second straight year the campus saw “significant gains” in the number of African-American and Hispanic students accepting offers of admission, according to Chuck Tucker, vice provost for undergraduate education. The same was true for in-state students. We continue to see strong interest from within the state, with increased acceptances from Illinois residents for the second year in a row,” Tucker said in a release.” - Keyser Soze - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 4:08 pm: This Illinois Alum (Engineering)frequently hears much of what is posted about the university in this thread. And, much of what I hear is unpublished and anecdotal. But, even if I disbelieve all that I hear, I still sense a lessening of enthusiasm for my school. Some of it I attribute to many of the hires at the top (always it seems by search committees and recruiters)that have little connection to the traditions that fuel the memories of myself and other alums. But to end on a positive note, I also sense that President Killeen recognizes the problems and wants to fix them. I hope so. - Oswego Willy - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 4:17 pm: - CapnCrunch -, All true. Also true is that better packages with multiple acceptances lead to tough family decisions. Also factor in… “Oh well, I guess it’s the University of Illinois” - Risky Business Also, as noted, with Admission criteria lowered, is that a paralell? One… final… question… The post is about SIU… Why did this veer this towards UIUC? To save the premise UIUC, the flagship is “healthy”, and if SIU loses out… too bad? - Anonymous - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 4:17 pm: Regardless of the number of new applicants, the insanity going on in this state can’t be a huge attraction to Illinois universities for students, can it? Unless you are unaware. - Etown - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 4:35 pm: Oswego another SEC school that is offering significant aid is LSU. My son was offered $10,000 just for having a good ACT score last year regardless of his average GPA. Most parents I spoke with who have graduating seniors have no desire to send their kids to state school even with in state tuition. This will get much worse before it gets better - Oswego Willy - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 4:41 pm: - Etown -, Yep. ACT scores, GPAs, the “free money” based on formulas is test scores and GPAs are adding to the angst of sending children to Illinois universities. Why rack up the debt for Universities not fully funded? - Arthur Andersen - Friday, May 6, 16 @ 4:49 pm: Old, I think the IPI was peddling that nonsense about the “50% goes to pensions.” I agree with your observations on UIUC. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.