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* 3:03 pm - The House has just passed HB 4744 by a huge margin of 81-31.
The bill would require a vote by the General Assembly before state property worth more than $1 million is sold. The bill applies to the Thomson prison sale. The Obama administration, of course, has said it wants to use the prison for Guantanamo detainees - although that plan has apparently been sidetracked. The administration could also use the prison for “regular” inmates as well.
Needless to say, if the GA has to vote on the Thomson sale, the deal would probably be toast unless there’s no “danger” of terrorists coming to the prison.
Keep in mind, however, that this bill could always get buried in the Senate.
posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 3:06 pm
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8 and a half months from an election with a hot issue like this? Cullerton would be foolish to bury it.
Comment by John Bambenek Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 3:25 pm
That looks like the end of selling any state property b/c some chunk of legislators will always need to defend it. This bill will just add to govt immobility and gridlock.
Comment by make it worse Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 3:28 pm
Heh….
They could always just do a long-term lease.
Comment by George Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 3:29 pm
The use of Thomson by the Fed concerns me less than whether or not the State was going to get a good price. It seems to me with all of the politics around its intended use by the Fed, we should get a premium.
What scared me was the fact that the Gov would sale it for a short term “fire sale price” to provide a very small temporary patch to a huge budget hole.
Comment by Crystal Clear Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 3:29 pm
Silly Republican fear-mongering strikes again.
Comment by Chicago Cynic Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 3:35 pm
Silly Republican fear-mongering strikes again. And yes, I know the bill had to go through a Democratic House. But that’s what drove this.
Comment by Chicago Cynic Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 3:37 pm
The key question is whether Quinn will sign this bill that would effectively block the sale?
As a citizen of this state, we should not be so desperate for economic activity and funds to sell our safety to Obama and the Federal government.
Comment by Steve Daniels Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 3:38 pm
crystal clear, what premium? the money would used to buy it is taxpayer money? whether at a premium or not, YOU are paying for it. then on top of that YOU would have to pay to upgrade and maintain the facility in Thomson, which would make it more expensensive to open and operate than Gitmo Cuba. Why not just leave well enough alone and leave Gitmo Cuba open and operating as is? YOU are paying for Cuba Gitmo and it is serving its purpose effectively by doing what it was intended to do.
thomson (illinois) needs and deserves jobs, surely we can do better than a gitmo thompson, though.
Comment by Will County Woman Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 3:42 pm
wcw–*how* could we do better than a Federal supermax prison? “Surely we can do better” might make a good state motto about now.
Comment by Ray del Camino Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 3:56 pm
== I know the bill had to go through a Democratic House ==
I cant understand why you just shot your own argument down. If it were “silly” republican fear mongering why didn’t democrats shoot the thing down?
Comment by Moving to Oklahoma Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 4:06 pm
WCW- Where did I in my comment say I thought we should close Gitmo, because I would rather they keep it open. Just saying if its going to happen, I would rather it be here in Illinois and get a premium price for a prison going virtually unused. BTW, the use of caps for “you” doesn’t strengthen your argument.
Comment by Crystal Clear Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 4:11 pm
@WCW - Are we actually paying Cuba for it? My last recollection was that while we cut Cuba a check for “rent” the Cuban government has refused to accept any payment as they protest our being there for several decades.
I think a long-term lease, 99-years perhaps, might circumvent this law (depending on the specific wording of the lease and law) without the GA interfering. IDOC facilities, especially modern facilities, have a far shorter operational life than that therefore the lease can easily exceed the buildings operational lifespan. .
Quite honestly, I think the GA and many citizens are showing their intelligence (or lack thereof) or inability for rational thought if they honestly believe that locating a detention facility in Illinois will attract terrorist activity here. Any idea how many terrorist acts were committed against Cuba because of Gitmo’s location? Or any other FBOP facility? Fear mongering indeed. Of all the gang leaders and extremist group leaders we have incarcerated in IDOC or FBOP facilities in Illinois what attacks have been carried out in their vicinity?
Sadly, our elected officials have again show their fear of the sound byte is greater than the repercussions their decisions have on the state.
Comment by Saluki09 Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 4:12 pm
Oh for God’s sake…can there be a more stupid issue than the hysterical fear of incarcerating people in Thomson? Sell Thomson, close Gitmo, put alleged “terrorists” on civilian trial (courts more efficient and convictions more valid–look at the stats)and let’s just get on w/ it. What a waste of time and energy distracting from the fiscal mess.
Comment by D.P. Gumby Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 4:42 pm
ray and crystal clear…
i have yet to see a cost-benefit assessment and/or a risk assessment, though it was mentioned that one or both do in fact exist related to the proposed gitmo thomson. reportedly the assessment(s) was done by the federal government.
the cynic in me just doesn’t believe that gitmo thomson will bear all the fruit aka benefits that has been claimed by obama, durbin and quinn. in fact i strongly suspect the cost and risks far outweigh any supposed benenfits.
Comment by Will County Woman Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 4:43 pm
I think it has become pretty clear that the Gitmo prisoners aren’t coming to Illinois, but the feds have said they still want Thomson as a federal prison. If we aren’t going to use it then I say sell it. It would create jobs and would be a prison like any other prison.
I also dislike the ide of the General Assembly passing something like this. I think as a knee jerk reaction to the Blagojevich years they have infringed way too much on the power of the Executive Branch. We elect a Governor to run the state and make decisions and the Governor, whomever he or she may be, should not have to run to the General Assembly to get permission every time to do something.
Comment by RJW Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 4:51 pm
“I also dislike the ide . . . ” should be “I also dislike the idea . . . “
Comment by RJW Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 4:52 pm
Sorry - I must be missing something. What risks?
No terrorist has ever escaped from US prisons. Thomson is an incredibly secure facility. What is all the Chicken Little stuff for other than politics and irrational fear?
Comment by Chicago Cynic Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 5:20 pm
Moving to Oklahoma,
Because fear is an extremely powerful weapon in politics. Doesn’t matter whether it is totally IRRATIONAL as it is in this case. It still has political currency.
Comment by Chicago Cynic Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 5:21 pm
“i have yet to see a cost-benefit assessment”
Oh for heaven’s sake.
The cost is that innocent people might get blown up.
Seems the posters on this site don’t get it.
But the legislators get it only too well.
They don’t want to be blown up out of their cushy jobs.
Comment by True Observer Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 5:22 pm
“No terrorist has ever escaped from US prisons.”
those of us who oppose gitmo thomson are well aware of that, and that is not, and never has been, our concern. thank you very much for not paying attention to or listening to our concerns.
Comment by Will County Woman Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 5:23 pm
===thank you very much for not paying attention to or listening to our concerns===
Lady, we’ve been ignoring you for months now. After all the tripe you’ve spewed here, I just skip right past your comments, and I suspect many others do too.
Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 5:39 pm
“Our” concerns, WCW? “Those of us”….
Did one of your recent posts–which I’ll admit, I might have skipped–announce a nomination “we’re” not aware of?
Comment by The REAL Anonymous fka Anonymous Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 6:08 pm
After growing up under the Soviet nuclear threat and Mutual Assured Destruction, a bunch of losers setting their underwear on fire on airplanes doesn’t scare me too much. There’s no such thing as risk-free when you’re maintaining a world empire.
Still, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to have the GA sign off on asset sales. In the past, I always assumed they maintained that power for themselves.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 6:13 pm
true word, there’s no such thing as risk-free, but all durbin and quinn talked about wasd the 3000 jobs bit (it was soooooooooo oh look a kitty!). when politicians hone-in on one thing as a selling point and claim to not know or outright ignore other related issues, as durbin and quinn a couple of months ago, then i am concerned. either they know more than they are telling us or they’re stretching the truth to fit their own political agendas or both!
i would argue that the same reasons that kathleen sebelius did not want gitmo in her state when she was governor, are the same reasons why illinois should not want/get gitmo.
Comment by Will County Woman Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 6:29 pm
WCW
Capital letters at the beginning of sentences are still okay.
Comment by Leave a Light on George Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 7:23 pm
Well, its not passed until the Senate approves it. That could take awhile if ever.
Comment by thunder1 Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 7:24 pm
Chicago cynic: I guess you didn’t live in NYC or DC on 9-11. I came back to IL to get away from that risk. The Feds don’t have the money to buy or run Thomson. We ought to have a bit more self-respect and care for human life than to invite cold blooded terrorists into our state. My state rep, Reitz, a Dem, didn’t give a fig about the consequences when I called him. He lied and claimed that Gitmo prisoners were all over the US and in Marion. I pray that common sense prevails.
Comment by Peggy SO-IL Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 7:46 pm
*sigh*
http://www.slate.com/id/2219268/
“According to data provided by Traci L. Billingsley, spokeswoman for the U.S. Bureau of Prisons, federal facilities on American soil currently house 216 international terrorists and 139 domestic terrorists. Some of these miscreants have been locked up here since the early 1990s. None of them has escaped. At the most secure prisons, nobody has ever escaped, period.”
I guess they don’t have the Google in Peggy’s neck of the woods.
Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 7:54 pm
Real-
The most recent Tribune poll released just before the primary election had a majority of Illinoisans opposing Gitmo Thomson.
Comment by Will County Woman Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 7:56 pm
{any real property to which the State holds fee simple title or lesser interest, and
(i) that has not been used by the State for at least the past 3 years and for which there is no foreseeable use in the next 3 years,
(ii) that has not been used by the State for at least the past 6 years, or
(iii) that is reported or transferred to the Director of Central Management Services as unused property and for which there is no foreseeable use by the Department of Central Management Services.
Are we sure Thomson qualifies under this statute? Weren’t they just emptying that out of whatever limited Illinois minimum security prisoners that were in it this past December?
Either way; this would appear to be an encroachment on the power of the executive branch that may not withstand a challenge.
Comment by Quinn T. Sential Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 8:07 pm
P.S. What is the over-under on Obama granting George Ryan clemency based on his latest petition?
Comment by Quinn T. Sential Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 8:10 pm
Silly Republican fear-mongering strikes again. And yes, I know the bill had to go through a Democratic House. But that’s what drove this.
Michael Madigan, cowering in a corner for fear of Republican press releases.
Somehow, I suspect not.
Comment by Pat Collins Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 8:25 pm
Unrelated: Ryan is seeking clemency again, and the Illinois Supreme Court decision regarding his pension is expected Friday.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 9:14 pm
WCW, your… er… “talents” and uh… “unique views” would probably be welcomed and appreciated on your local newspaper’s online comment section. Here? Not so much.
47th is absolutely correct Peggy. I suppose your GOP-tinged version of terrorists (and WCW’s for that matter) includes spandex, capes, and multiple comic book super-villain powers. They’re here already, and guess what… No incidents, no security risks, and no fanfare. The feds have kept them safely, responsibly, and securely locked up - even though per you they “don’t have the money to buy or run Thomson”. Despite this, Reitz voted for this bill, so you’re complaining about what exactly?
I’m quite disappointed that MJM ever allowed this thinly veiled GOP campaign stunt out of rules. I can only hope that Cullerton keeps it bottled up. Not that it matters a whole lot because I just don’t see any governor signing a bill that waters down the power of the executive branch and essentially gives the legislature an unregulated pork funding stream to play with. If this joke actually becomes law, the state will have to take over Indiana to warehouse all the assets worth over $1M that will be forever deadlocked in partisan, inter-chamber, and/or intra-party bickering. “Where’s Mine?” will take on a whole new meaning. I hope MJM secured at least a few GOP tax hike votes in exchange.
Comment by Unnamed For Now Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 9:29 pm
Peggy,
All of my wife’s family and many of my closest friends live in NYC and were there on 9/11. In fact, many were flying that day, so you can take your self-righteous tone and place it in whatever den of fear you apparently live in.
There is NO risk. This is a bunch of nervous nellies ginning up irrational fears in people like you who don’t seem to care about the facts. As 47 said above, we HAVE terrorists living in prisons all throughout this country. They have been thrown in VERY secure prisons. They’ve been here for decades.
If you want to live somewhere with absolutely no risk of anything, I suggest such a place does not exist.
Comment by Chicago Cynic Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 9:35 pm
47th ward: They are not Gitmo prisoners. None have been moved to the US, yet.
Comment by Peggy SO-IL Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 9:38 pm
Also, ask US prison guard Louis Pepe about the evil of these prisoners. I wonder how many more attacks we don’t know about. [My post with a link to his editorial in the NY Post was not accepted.]
Comment by Peggy SO-IL Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 9:45 pm
Peggy,
You’re missing the point. Nobody is doubting that they’re evil. On the contrary - we all agree that they are evil. What we are saying is that they belong in prison and can be kept their safely. We have hundreds of examples that prove that point. You have none that suggest we’re wrong.
Comment by Chicago Cynic Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 9:57 pm
Chicago Cynic,
Speaking only for myself here…
The fact that neither Quinn nor Durbin were very forthcoming with information beyond just the 3000 jobs speil, suggest that there is an associated risk to Gitmo Thomson. I think what most people have said who oppose moving Gitmo to Thomson is that the risk is increased, and it is an unnecessary risk to take under the circumstances. I don’t think that is an unreasonable position; gitmo thomson is more trouble than its worth. Besides, there are enough problems in this state for now and the forseeable future without having to take on the added problems associated with global terriorism beyond where we are at now.
We, the nation, do not have the man-power in terms of counter intelligence and ability to eradicate global terrorism, and we probably never truly will, so the best we can do is try to minimize our risk. what is so hard to understand about that?
Comment by Will County Woman Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 10:07 pm
Chicago C: I did. Read about the horrific disfiguring attack on guard Louis Pepe by 2 Muslim prisoners. This is not a run of the mill act. I don’t doubt that there are more such stories. Is that a cost you will tolerate? You don’t mind the aggregation of terrorists to plot with their prisoner buddies in Northern IL? Becoming a target for terrorist acts? I do. But you Chicagoans want your reward for electing The One. Have it. Keep it for yourselves. Yet, the evidence is clear that Gitmo is working quite well, keeping this target at a distance from our land and makes sense as these are military prisoners, not criminals. There is no justification for moving these men to any state in the union.
Comment by Peggy SO-IL Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 10:11 pm
The idea for closing Gitmo didn’t come from the mind of Barack Obama. The justification, according to Colin Powell and countless military leaders, is that Gitmo has created far more terrorists than it has locked away. It has become a symbol throughout the Muslim world, along with Abu Ghraib, of an America that has no respect for Muslims. That’s why it should be closed.
You have some image in your head of prison life out of a movie like Shawshank Redemption where all the prisoners spend all day together where they can plot and scheme. That’s just not how these supermax facilities work.
As I and many others here have said, get the facts first.
Comment by Chicago Cynic Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 10:19 pm
I guess they don’t have logic and reason in Peggy’s neck of the woods either. In addition to the Google problem. Also.
Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 10:21 pm
–Read about the horrific disfiguring attack on guard Louis Pepe by 2 Muslim prisoners.–
There are 1.6 billion Muslims on the planet. Muslim is not a synonym for terrorist.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 10:25 pm
Chicago Cynic, do you understand that people like Powell and Patreus are really arguing that the U.S. not imprison enemy combatants for prolonged periods of time without charging and trying them? That is why they oppose Gitmo. In other words they oppose Gitmo in theory and practice with repsect to how Gitmo has been used. It doesn’t matter where Gitmo is, Chicago Cynic! What matters is that Gitmo has existed the way it has: indefinite detention serving to fuel anti-American perceptions that human rights are being violated.
Comment by Will County Woman Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 10:31 pm
The Muslim prisoners were terrorists of course in that case I cited. The Chicago mindset toward territory south of I-80 reminds me of small town country clubbers–big fish in little pond thing. I bypassed Chicago for bigger things and people years ago.
Comment by Peggy SO-IL Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 10:34 pm
Peggy, do us all a favor and bypass Capitolfax. We’re trying to have a conversation here. If that’s too elitist for you, then you might be happier commenting somewhere else, where no one will call you on your rhetoric.
Comment at your own risk, but don’t play the “south of I-80 card” here. With me. On this subject. It’s too important to screw up.
Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 10:42 pm
By all means, play the moronic geography card: If you live in a certain place, you must think a certain way because it fits my small world view.
There are plenty of people in Chicago who share your irrational fears and resentments. And believe it or not, plenty of people south of I-80 think you’re spouting nonsense as well.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 10:43 pm
Darned right it’s important. Hence, more voices need to be heard. Get out of your echo chamber. I did my time in Springpatch. I know of what I speak.
Comment by Peggy SO-IL Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 10:49 pm
WCW, once again the facts elude you.
“Guantanamo has become a major, major problem … in the way the world perceives America and if it were up to me I would close Guantanamo not tomorrow but this afternoon … and I would not let any of those people go. I would simply move them to the United States and put them into our federal legal system,” Powell told NBC’s Meet the Press.
And Peggy, Thomson is North of I-80.
As I have said and will keep saying. Please people. Get the facts.
Comment by Chicago Cynic Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 10:49 pm
BTW, that Powell quote was from June 10, 2007.
Comment by Chicago Cynic Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 10:53 pm
But where does Colin Powell live, south or north of I-80?
The fear and defeatism expressed here is sickening. You ask troops to risk their lives with four or five combat tours but you’re too scared to put punks in SuperMax prisons.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 10:56 pm
CC: But I’m not (north of I-80). It’s in the water in the Chicago River, isn’t it? You can’t help yourself.
“Fear” and “defeatism”? The defeatism is that we’re so hard up for economic development we will take some of the most dangerous and evil beings and put them in our state not far from a large population center. For what? A few thousand jobs maybe? Kind of like what Thomas More says to Richard, “But for Wales?”
WS: You think they’re mere “Punks”? In any case, military soldiers and prison guards are not similarly trained for similar objectives and risks, though both jobs are of course high risk.
Comment by Peggy SO-IL Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 11:05 pm
You got it word.
It still amazes me how the supposedly weak and wussie Dems are the ones saying “bring them here” and the mighty, powerful Republicans are the ones saying “We’re all going to die if you bring those EVIL MUSLIMS to our state.” Give me a break!
Comment by Chicago Cynic Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 11:06 pm
Peggy, so I guess I’m far closer to where I want to put the terrorists then you are. So what are you so worried about?
Comment by Chicago Cynic Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 11:07 pm
CC: Maybe I care about your life and the lives of all of us on the mainland. I care about my country.
The GOP view is to protect American citizens from harm by these terrorists. Putting an enemy, with no qualms about killing or doing other heinous things other human beings, smack dab near civilian populations is not a way to protect Americans from such callous foreign enemies. These prisoners were captured in a military operation. Yet, they’re not like the Confederate soldiers imprisoned at Rock Island. They are infinitely more dangerous.
The Dem view is that these guys are just over-rated petty criminals. There’s no danger in putting them near American civilians. The Administration barely acknowledges the reality or seriousness of the war on terror. [I’d concede some over-reaches under Bush, but it is generally true that we need to wage a war on terror b/c they’re at war with us. Another topic.]
It’s more in depth than that, but it is late. I’ve been fasting this Ash Wed and need to snooze or I might succumb to a snack here soon. [Although I’m 1/2 from Midnight…hmmm…]
Cheers.
Comment by Peggy SO-IL Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 11:27 pm
Chicago Cynic, looks like you’re laboring under a misapprehension? I have a something better and more recent than what you cite. CBS Face the Nation May 24, 2009 interview with Colin Powell.
Clearly the facts did not elude me. I understood Powell’s position about indefinite (military) detention being at the heart of the problem from his perspective. And you’ve got your facts wrong. Under the proposed thomson plan from back in december, as you will recall part of the facility would be under military control, the part housing the enemy combatants, which is/was my point in the previous post, while the rest would be a federal prison housing non-enemy combatants.
The fact remains that if moved to Thomson, they detainees would STILL be under indefinite (military) detention. And I agree with powell that has been the problem all along.
A recent cbs poll from jan 2010 has 55 percent of americans opposed to gitmo thomson.
Comment by Will County Woman Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 11:43 pm
Obama ran for President partially on a promise to close Gitmo. All of a sudden he actually becomes President and tries to fullfill his promises only to realize nobody wants to actually go along, so he calls his good ole’ friends in Illinois and begs for help. Why am I not surprised? What is Quinn getting in return? I bet some pretty nice campaign commercials and money. Now THAT’S the Chicago Way! This is Madigan’s way of saying, “Where’s mine?”
Comment by Its Just Me Wednesday, Feb 17, 10 @ 11:47 pm