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* From a press release…
llinois State Senator Martin A. Sandoval (D-Chicago) is urging the Chicago White Sox to move their spring training camp out of Arizona.
“I have been an avid White Sox fan all of my life and a State Senator who represents the heart of the Latino Community in Illinois,” stated Senator Sandoval. “Although I bleed ‘Sox Black’, I cannot change the color of my skin for the State of Arizona.”
The new Arizona Law requires law enforcement to question people about their immigration status and arrest individuals if law enforcement has a “reasonable suspicion” that they are in the country illegally. This law, if fully implemented, would institute and legitimize a policy of profiling that would infringe upon the civil rights of individuals and families, and would threaten the basic notion of decency, justice, and fairness which are essential elements of the American Way of Life.
“I am calling on Jerry Reinsdorf to move the team’s Spring training from Arizona altogether unless and until Arizona modifies or repeals this terrible law. The White Sox are a tenant of the Illinois Sports Facility Authority that owns U.S. Cellular Field,” said Senator Sandoval. “I believe the team has a special partnership with the State of Illinois and expect Mr. Reinsdorf to excise leadership commensurate with that special relationship.”
The State of Illinois contributes an annual subsidy of $5 million to the Illinois Sports Facility Authority. In these very difficult budget times, it does not seem prudent to continue to spend very scarce taxpayers dollars on behalf of an organization that chooses to continue to invest in the State of Arizona.
* The Question: Do you agree with Sen. Sandoval or not? Explain fully, please.
*** UPDATE *** Video…
posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 10:34 am
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No…
Comment by OneMan Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 10:36 am
Explain, please.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 10:37 am
As a white male no, but as a hispanic male yes.
Comment by arresteddevelopment Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 10:38 am
No, because the courts will strike this law down. The money that is spent on spring training in AZ helps boost the economy there. And Hispanics who benefit from those jobs will be unfairly punished. A permanent solution to a short term problem.
Comment by Knome Sane Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 10:41 am
No because this like the national guard plan by two of his obscure friends are not real ideas that do any good just news bites ment to get him some face time on the news.
Comment by Fed up Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 10:44 am
I’m not totally opposed to the use of a state’s commerce power to bring about desired social change. But I don’t think there’s enough of a state consensus (yet) on the AZ immigration law for the state to bring that pressure for “desired social change”. An opinion poll would likely be 50/50 at best in IL and might actually disfavor this action.
Comment by Six Degrees of Separation Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 10:44 am
I think these boycotts are harmful as they will hurt hispanic workers who may be laid off when these teams or business’s leave
also, practically, do you really think that after the White Sox spent so much money on Saddleback Ranch, that hey will leave
No………..
Comment by I'm Just Saying Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 10:44 am
Because there is a reason Arizona passed this law, because illegal immigration is a huge problem and it’s costing the state a fortune and they are really broke (they have even closed their rest stops on the highways).
Complain all you want about the law (I don’t think it is a good idea either) but you know it has re-started the conversation on illegal immigration again and that is a positive.
Also if the White Sox and other teams move the biggest impact is going to be on cities some of whom are making efforts to block the law.
Comment by OneMan Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 10:47 am
The courts will strike it down, but that could take years. Businesses are already canceling their involvement in the state. If sports teams do the same for spring training, it should hopefully convince Arizona lawmakers that they’re being absolute dunderheads.
Comment by jonbtuba Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 10:47 am
No.
The White Sox have nothing to do with Arizona’s law. Sandoval trying to force them to move smacks of political opportunism
I’m also unsettled by the threatening tone he takes in the final paragraph. Seems awfully close to blackmail to me.
Comment by well Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 10:47 am
No. The AZ law mirrors existing federal law that the feds choose not to enforce. This law is not racial. Any foreign student at an AZ Uni whose immigration status is not in order could be subject to this, not just illegal aliens from Mexico and Latin Am. The unprotected borders are a mortal danger to US citizens and legal immigrants in AZ and other states.
Comment by Peggy SO-IL Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 10:48 am
I assume that the Sox have a contract with AZ as the cubs do. If they leave I also assume they will be on the hook for a contract violation. While I understand Marty’s desire to punish AZ for their new immigration policy, I don’t think he would want to loose money to move an operation he owned from AZ to wherever. If my assumptions are wrong and the Sox can pick up and move the team without financial penalty, then I agree it would be a good way to send a message.
However, the Sox have to also think how this move will affect its 10 fans outside of the Southside. Will the decision to go “political” erode from these 10 fans or add to it?
Comment by Moderate REpub Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 10:48 am
No. It’s time to stop demonizing Arizona. It really is true that immigration is a national policy issue and Arizona’s pols are no doubt under tremendous pressure from citizens who are dealing with the strains of living with a large illegal immigrant population.
As to boycotts and other economic protests–who gets hurt the most if they work? Probably, the illegal immigrants who came to Arizona to work. Be careful what you wish for.
Absorbing large numbers of immigrants, with the attendant strains, is going to be one of the big
issues of 21st century in the US and in Europe as well. There are valid points on both sides. Let’s not get crazy.
Comment by cassandra Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 10:48 am
Yes. They should have never moved to Arizona in the first place. They only moved because Reinsdorf has property there. If this law gives them a reason to rejoin the grapefruit league I am all for it. There are plenty of great venues in Florida that would love to be the winter home of the White Sox.
Comment by Bill Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 10:49 am
No, we cannot relate to what is taking place in Arizona. It is a very knee jerk liberal reaction.
Keep sports out of it. What on earth does the white sox training camp have to do with such an important and complex issue as immigration. Under that logic, we must move Solider Field because its in the same state as Fort Sheridan, which has trained soldiers which have killed innocent civilians in Iraq/Afghanistan.
If this was such a serious law the feds would move in on it,( which they still might) but truth is President Obama feels it may be the right way to go, all Arizona did was take needed action to protect Union Workers and Legal Immigrants from those who are here Illegally. I’m all for LEGAL immigration.
Comment by Captain Streeter Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 10:50 am
I agree that this is classic pandering. Of course they aren’t going to re-locate spring training, but it makes for a great press pop.
On the other hand - I almost always do agree with Senator Sandoval. His public and private actions demonstrate that he always has the best interests of the public in mind. He never has other motives.
Comment by Siriusly Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 10:50 am
I think what has more of a chance is the Cubs moving their Spring Training facility out of Arizona.
The AZ legislature already failed to pass the new revenue to fund a new Cubs facility. And they will flirt with moving to Florida again.
Losing the Cubs, the single largest draw in Arizona, would be an enormous blow to the State.
Comment by George Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 10:51 am
Is Sandoval suggesting the state pull its $5 million subsidy from the IL Sports Facilities Authority? If so, would that mean that Sox fans would pay the difference through higher ticket prices?
If that’s the case, then I’m all for the idea. And given how they’re playing so far, it’s hard to tell they had spring training anywhere.
Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 10:52 am
Sandoval is wrong. And instead of grandstanding about the reasonable measures another state is taking to deal with a serious problem, he should be a little more concerned about his own state where he and his fellow lawmakers can’t seem to tackle ANY problems in a serious way.
Comment by just sayin' Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 10:53 am
No. I suggest the Senator actually read the law. I have. There is nothing there that promotes racial profiling. As far as I can tell, it actually mirrors Federal law, which the federal government refuses to fully enforce. Arizona acted out of frustration more than anything else.
Comment by Springfield Sceptic Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 10:54 am
No. This is just a PR stunt for the Senator. Seems to have worked too. I’d rather focus on the Speakers U of I clout list.
Comment by Jackson Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 10:56 am
Yes. I think he should ditch the threatening tone regarding state funding, but taking a stand on this issue is the right thing to do. The Cubs should pull out as well. Major League Baseball should should encourage all ball teams to do the same. One team doing it won’t have an impact, but a broad economic boycott can have an impact on this heinous law.
Also, the Obama needs to make federal immigration reform a top priority to stop the Arizona’s out there from passing bad laws like this in the first place.
Comment by Montrose Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 10:57 am
At this point, I don’t think it is the place of major league baseball, much less an individual team within the league to take the lead in opposing a political issue. It should first be up to the federal government or other states doing business with Arizona to boycott and set policy. I would also imagine that the White Sox have some sort of contractual obligation with their current AZ facilities and with the Cactus League that would make it difficult to relocate. However, with Ozzie recently speaking out against the immigration law, it would be interested to know what his stance would be on moving spring training out of Arizona.
Comment by Geovany Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 10:57 am
Arizona residents support the legislation by 70%. Should Illinois try to impact Arizona’s public policy? No.
Comment by One of Three Puppets Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 10:58 am
Given the huge number of Hispanic players/coaches in Major League Baseball, who if they are out and about their business in Arizona during Spring Training could be mistakenly detained on “reasonable suspicion” under this new law if they don’t happen to carry their papers every where they go, I think it makes more sense in baseball than in any sport for officials to make some sort of political statement here and for owners to show some solidarity with their players on this issue when the players union has spoken out against this law.
I doubt Reinsdorf will take action on this for the Sox, but it’s more reason for the Cubs to beat it for Florida now that their contract’s up.
And moving the All-Star game from Phoenix would also be a great idea.
Comment by Hisgirlfriday Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 10:58 am
–Under that logic, we must move Solider Field because its in the same state as Fort Sheridan, which has trained soldiers which have killed innocent civilians in Iraq/Afghanistan.–
Dude, Ft. Sheridan closed nearly 20 years ago.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 11:00 am
The senators own press release is full of lies or ignorance. The law does not require Az police to question people about their immigration status nor does it use reasonable suspicion as a standard for arrest. These lies are as outlandish as the GOP BS about death panels but never underestimate the ignorance of us in Illinois. Sandoval spreads these lies and no one will even ask the good senator if he has read the law.
Comment by Fed up Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 11:01 am
Yes. Economic pressure is a legitimate tool. The ballot box doesn’t work anymore (Scott Cohen ring a bell). Senator Martin needs to involve Sox fans-as a season ticket holder I would be in-no move from AZ, no ticket renewal.
Comment by creeper stroud Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 11:01 am
Yes, Yes, Yes
The revenue that the state of Arizona makes off of the Cactus League is about $350 million a year and the estimated revenue for the 2011 All-Star Game is $60 million.
Why should a state that has passed a law that would encourage racial profiling reap the financial benefits from professional baseball or other sporting events?
Additionally, given the fact 40% of baseball players are of color, with a significant percentage being immigrants the players could very likely be profiled. Why would MLB want to expose its players to that?
The NFL pulling the Superbowl out of Phoenix in the 1990’s made an impact. Arizona may have the right to pass this law, but as a sports fan I have every right to request that the sports/teams I PATRONIZE not do or limit their business in Arizona.
Comment by wndycty Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 11:02 am
No.
1. Senator Sandoval has 1.3 million better things to do with his time.
2. See number 1.
3. See number 1 and 2.
4. A gay rights group in a state where gay marriage is legal could very easily start making the same arguement in that state against Illinois which to my knowledge does not provide same sex marriage licenses.
5. The white sox are a floundering team. They would be better off spending their resources on the field rather than trying to make their location politically correct.
6. First mell, then fritchey, then this. It’s apparently stupid season in springfield.
Comment by shore Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 11:03 am
Take Sandoval at his word. His own press release states, “The State of Illinois contributes an annual subsidy of $5 million to the Illinois Sports Facility Authority. In these very difficult budget times, it does not seem prudent to continue to spend very scarce taxpayers dollars on behalf of an organization that chooses to continue to invest in the State of Arizona.”
Fair enough. Eliminate the $5MM subsidy to the Illinois Sports Facility Authority. Problem solved. And, helps fix the budget crisis. Brilliant!
Comment by Confused Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 11:03 am
Wait until the Arizona storm troopers start pulling over Ozzie’s kids and asking for their papers. Then maybe they’ll consider moving.
Comment by Bill Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 11:06 am
Wordslinger - I’m not sure what the Soldier Field / Ft. Sheridan reference was all about - but you’re half right BTW.
Ft. Sheridan was only half closed. It remains an active command and control center for both the Army and Navy and houses nearly 500 military families.
Comment by Paul Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 11:07 am
Wait a minute. You mean that the White Sox would be financially harmed by eliminating the $5M subsidy to the Illinois Sports Facility Authority? And that’s his hammer here?
Oh I see the connection now.
I wonder if the White Sox make campaign contributions.
This playbook looks familiar.
Comment by Siriusly Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 11:12 am
Absolutely not. One thing had absolutely nothing to do with the other. Sandoval is just pandering for votes and that is putting it politely.
Comment by Avy Meyers Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 11:12 am
Hey……….if $5M in cash already is being lobbed their way each year (to say nothing of what Big Jim Thompson dropped on “The Cell” years ago)……..why can’t the Cubs and Sox come home and train in…….southern Illinois?
(I know……….they’re probably already under contract in AZ and FL. But still…..)
After all………the Bears moved their training from Platteville, WI to Bourbonnais (though most likely not for altruistic reasons!)
Yeah, I know, the Cubbies and Sox would have no teams to play. But — if they were to train in warm and sunny Metro East, and the Cards and Royals were to come home to Missouri to train — that’d be a foursome!
Let me put it this way: new tourist bucks for Metro East, anyone?
Comment by Dooley Dudright Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 11:22 am
Paul, thanks for clarification. I was going more for Metaphor here with all these knee-jerks on capitolfax, but that goes over their heads. How about Great Lakes they’re active.
Lets boycott games to Arizona next, Cubs don’t do well against diamondbacks anyway.. lets boycott all the states with immigration issues!! Then the Cubs will win it all!!!!
creeper stroud, who will hold you to that when they don’t move..can we get that in writing..
Comment by Captain Streeter Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 11:23 am
It is my understanding that the Arizona law closely matches current federal law in respect to this issue. The problem is that the feds decline to enforce the law and Arizona is having horrific problems with criminal illegal aliens. We have no perspective here regarding that. Is say leave it alone.
In my opinion, immigration policy in this country is broken in so many ways. When the economy was booming and low wage workers were badly needed, the US did open its’ doors to let alot of immigrants in. That was back 100 years ago. Many of these people were thought of as unwashed ignorant people who frequently turned to crime.
They were our grandparents.
This country has always thrived on immigration. I think it was a mistake to maintain low levels of immigrants from places like Poland and Mexico during the last economic boom. It was dumb. That doesn’t mean that we should embrace those who are here illegally - there should be a penalty for violating our laws. Secure our borders, reform immigration, then penalize (reasonable fines for instance), assimilate and naturalize those already here.
This is a great country that has not always welcomed the very people we need to thrive. In a previous life I worked in manufacturing and met many folk who came to this country for a better life. Those who wish to come here and become Americans and taste our form of freedom should be encourage when the circumstances warrant it.
Comment by dupage dan Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 11:26 am
O look a kitty!
Comment by Hank Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 11:28 am
Springfield Skeptic,
I have to disagree with your interpretation of the Arizona law.
The law has always been that when someone commits a crime, they are subject to a thorough search of their documentation.
This law allows law enforcement to ask for documentation regardless of whether or not a crime was committed.
The problem is not in the illegal immigrants the law seeks to weed out, it is the hundreds of thousands of legal Hispanics living in Arizona.
As a white male, I would never be asked for documentation. In fact, most days I wouldn’t be able to produce anything that says I am an American citizen… The problem is that someone who looks like me would never be asked.
I think it is time for other states to weigh into the discussion. Private businesses also should be able to decide whether or not they continue their business in a state that promotes this kind of profiling.
As for me I will be rooting for “Los Suns” tonight as they take on the Spurs tonight.
Happy Cinco De Mayo Rich!
Comment by UISer Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 11:28 am
===Cubs don’t do well against diamondbacks anyway..===
Captain, the Cubs took three out of four against the D-backs last week. Try to keep up.
Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 11:29 am
I’d rather see all the Latin American players waive their pay for games in AZ and skip those road trips.
Comment by chuckT Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 11:30 am
I understand the sentiment, but I don’t think the state really has a hammer over Reinsdorf here.
The state kicks in $5 million for upkeep to the ballpark — but the state owns the ballpark. Are you going to let your own property get rundown to squeeze a tenant?
Besides, Reinsdorf and the Dodgers just invested a lot of their own money to build their new joint complex in AZ. They’re not going to walk away anytime soon, certainly not over $5 million.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 11:31 am
I totally understand this. We do not have a single workable plan for a budget which is $13 billion short so, we will now tell Arizona how to run it’s own state. That will work really well.
Comment by DRB Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 11:33 am
People, please make sure to answer the question.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 11:33 am
No.
Arizona needs to resolve their illegal residents problem because it is busting the state’s budget, and overloading the health care system there. Permitting this flow of illegals is penalizing all who followed the proper process to become legal residents.
Not keeping Spring Training in Arizona serves nothing but some cheap PR for Sandoval. It will punish many honest hardworking citizens. This was poorly thought out by Sandoval, but then he simply wants to get in on the PR.
Comment by Justice Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 11:40 am
keep up with me, remember 2007 being swept by ARIZONA? And i’m talking games in that state, cubs have a bad overall record IN Arizona. last week was at wrigley
Comment by Captain Streeter Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 11:41 am
No. Uis. The federal law requires that non citizens have their “papers” passport, grenn card, visa on them it has not been enforced but is the law. Not a huge fan of the whole law but hopefully it leads to a real solution to a real problem. I think it is rather racist of Sen Sandoval to assume illegal immigrants look Latino.
Comment by Fed up Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 11:42 am
The White Sox should make a clear statement that the organization disagrees with the law.
Jerry Reinsdorf should clearly say that if Arizona does not repeal the law the voters should reject the politicians who voted for the law.
And the White Sox should prepare a contingency plan for leaving Arizona if the law remains.
Comment by Carl Nyberg Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 11:42 am
The new Arizona Law requires law enforcement to question people about their immigration status and arrest individuals if law enforcement has a “reasonable suspicion” that they are in the country illegally.
No it doesn’t!
The new Arizona Law requires law enforcement to question people they arrest about their immigration status and arrest individuals if law enforcement has a “reasonable suspicion” that they are in the country illegally.
Additionally, why does Mr. Sandoval believe he should use his duties within Illinois government to force a private industry to accommodate his political statements?
No - all around! Read the damn law! It does nothing but follow the federal law to the letter. This law will stand up in court. Stop playing politics with it, because polls clearly show a whopping majority of people, including those who would be effected, are in support.
Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 11:43 am
Please turn off the bold, Rich - thank you! I am sorry to have forgotten to do that.
Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 11:44 am
No - this is stupidity.
Don’t our Illinois elected officials have issues to focus on within our borders?
Let Arizona make and enforce their laws and we can worry about our own problems.
Comment by A.B, Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 11:44 am
No, First of all the state money they get is a subsidy for Cellular field not for the field in Arizona.
Secondly there is nothing wrong with the Arizona law. As I understand it the law just requires people to carry a bona fide ID and present it to law enforcement when asked. If you are legal you are fine, if you are not you are in trouble. I do not think this is any different than what is expected in most States. It did not used to be that big of a deal to present an ID when requested. We seemto be getting away from that for some reason.
Given the rise in crime and the attacks and murders of US citizens by the spillover of drug wars and activities coming out of Mexico in addition to the illegal immigration problems I think all the border states should have the same law.
Comment by Irish Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 11:52 am
VMan, the new law allows private citizens to sue municipal government if the police department is insufficiently aggressive in check citizenship status.
Can you think of another example where private citizens get to sue their village or city because they feel the PD is not enforcing the law aggressively enough against a third party?
Comment by Carl Nyberg Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 11:52 am
Don’t forget Reinsdorf is actually upping his investment in Arizona with he pending purchase of the Coyotes.
Comment by wndycty Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 11:56 am
No. It is childish grandstanding.
There is nothing I have seen in the Arizona law that relates to the kinds of profiling the hyperventilating critics claim. I can be stopped without case and asked to show my documentation when I encounter one of those popular police roadblocks. I have to show my ID and am subject to moderately invasive searches when I board an airplane. What is the big deal? There is no new invasion of privacy that I can see allowed by the new Arizona law.
The Illinois legislators should focus on the fiscal problems in this state before they adjourn.
Comment by Plutocrat03 Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 11:59 am
===Arizona residents support the legislation by 70%===
It’s 52 percent in AZ… http://www.azcentral.com/news/election/azelections/articles/2010/05/04/20100504arizona-immigration-law-poll-52-percent-support.html
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 12:07 pm
As someone who is married to an immigrant who is often mistaken for a Latina, I will not be traveling to that state any time soon. Cops shouldn’t be literally required to walk up to my wife without provocation or reasonable security reasons (eg airport, presidential visit, etc.) and demand she show her papers. What if her purse was stolen? And what did Ben Franklin say about security and freedom?
So, let’s tone it down a bit here, please.
To the question: I’m not yet in favor of withdrawing the subsidy, but the Sox and all MLB teams with AZ spring training facilities should at least speak up about where they stand on this law. There are a heckuva lot of Latinos on those teams.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 12:13 pm
Can you think of another example where private citizens get to sue their village or city because they feel the PD is not enforcing the law aggressively enough against a third party?
Sadly, this happens far too often when a spouse is murdered after the spouse repeatedly contacts the local police, files court papers to prevent the stalker or ex-husband or lover from being around the spouse, and when the local police fail to take the murder victim’s calls seriously.
I can give you other sad examples too.
What the AZ law does is ensure that local law enforcement has implemented policies that indicate that they have taken steps to meet federal law requirements in good faith.
There is really no “new” in this AZ law that isn’t covered already by Federal Laws. The difference is the requirement that AZ law enforcement officers do a background check as required by Federal Law on suspects they have arrested for crimes. This is clearly delineated.
No one can be arrested for appearing to be Hispanic in Arizona, because if it did - a third of the citizens of Arizona would be stopped. Nothing is in the law counter current Federal Laws.
Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 12:17 pm
No, I think Sen. Sandoval is overreacting. I agree with several other posters that Arizona is basically trying to enforce a federal law that the feds have chosen not to enforce.
I suspect that one reason the feds don’t try too hard to crack down on illegal immigration is that illegal immigrants actually pay a significant amount of federal income and Social Security tax. (Yes, illegal immigrants do pay taxes. Use your Google and look it up.) The federal government benefits financially from their prescence, while state and local governments are forced to bear the costs associated with their presence.
Comment by Secret Square Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 12:19 pm
VM, this isn’t about being arrested for being a Latino. It’s about being detained and forced to show ID because the cop thinks somebody might be illegal. Stick to the topic, please. And answer the question.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 12:23 pm
I am in favor of this type of move. But the more effective source would be from the players’ union. Indeed, if all four major players’ unions joined in a refusal to appear in Arizona venues, the effect would be sudden and dramatic. No baseball, no football, no basketball nor hockey would slam cities like Glendale and force the state to revisit this law much faster than a piece-meal boycott.
Comment by Springfieldish Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 12:28 pm
I don’t see the Arizona law allowing law enforcement to walk up to a person without cause and ask for identification. That is the myth that is being sold about the AZ law.
However if that is a problem, why can Illinois law enforcement set up a roadblock and stop EVERYONE, and then demand for identification? Where is the probable cause in that?Why is that OK?
Comment by Plutocrat03 Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 12:38 pm
===Why is that OK?===
The USSCt has ruled that the roadblocks have to stop everybody or they’re not constitutional. Stick to the question, please, or you’re done here for the day.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 12:40 pm
Rich you believing the hype. Nowhere in this Law does it say police are Required to walk up to anyone without provocation “reasonable suspician” and demand to see papers. That is a bold faced lie.
Comment by fed up Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 12:45 pm
No. Federal law requiring all resident aliens (from anywhere) to carry, and be willing to show their immigration papers upon request has been on the books since 1940. FDR signed it into law. Also, don’t we all willingly hand over our identification when we are stopped for a traffic violation, when we buy certain OTC drugs, cash a check, cross a border in any country, or fly anywhere? Is that profiling? Don’t we live in a country based on Federalism in which sovereign states have a great deal of responsibility and power to address their specific and unique state issues?
If states go beyond their lawful scope and authority there are courts to nix it, and elections to fix it. State governments and powerful organizations seeking to invoke an economic boycott against the lawful citizens of other states as blackmail, or retaliation, or to demonize, is a very, very dangerous course to set upon inside our country. We all need each other. Everybody, including baseball, needs to just chill. Sox have a lovely winter facility and should stay put.
Comment by Responsa Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 1:02 pm
No.
There are better ways to bring this issue to the forefront rather than using the White Sox. However, I too will be avoiding any trips to Arizona, since I will be pulled and interrogated over as promptly as many Sox players would be.
Comment by keepitsimple Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 1:11 pm
The question is whether we agree or disagree with Sen. Sandoval. I disagree; the White Sox have no special obligation one way or another regarding Arizona’s “Papers, please” law that I can see. Major League Baseball, however, had better be ready when — not if, but when — one of its players runs afoul of some Arizona cop’s suspicion or prejudice.
The odious “Papers, please” law absolutely will result in racial profiling. How could it not? How will a cop determine “reasonable suspicion” of someone’s immigration status? Even though there are plenty of illegal immigrants from Europe in this country, does anyone here really believe people with white skin will get pulled over and asked for their papers?
As to the idea that a majority of Arizonans want a racial profiling law, this is the very situation our Constitution is designed to defeat: tyranny of the majority. In years past, the majority supported segregation and Jim Crow — morally reprehensible laws rightly struck down and discarded. How would you feel if a majority of Illinoisans supported a racial/ethnic profiling law aimed at you? How would you feel if the majority wants you to wear a symbol and live behind a wall? By some of the logic I’ve seen here, that would make such laws okay. Really? In the United States of America?
If Arizona truly wants to turn itself into a police state, then it should leave the Union, pay us its proportionate share of the national debt, and forget about the Colorado River Compact, federal money for highways, transit and airports, etc. Of course, if the Native American nations want to remain in the United States, or declare their independence from the Peoples Democratic Republic of Arizona, then they should have those options, too. If that’s what the majority wants…
Comment by Northsider Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 1:19 pm
Dudley: Perhaps you haven’t been very far south. It does occasionally snow in So-IL in February and March. And temps are not frequently over 40. This climate is NOT like AZ or FL. Though the economic development would be quite welcome, you may want to rethink your modest proposal. On the other hand, perhaps some facilities at State Unis down here might be used by the teams. Bring in State Rev, attract the public…and so forth.
Comment by Peggy SO-IL Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 1:48 pm
Follow up re the law: If a British subject or French citoyen were in AZ without his passport or immigration papers, he’d similarly have a problem. AZ will have MANY European visitors to the Grand Canyon and other national parks this summer. They take bus tours or drive in the US as vacationers & will have IDPs issued before they arrive. We are similarly required to have such permits to drive in Europe and to keep our passports on our persons. Why is it so unjust to defend our borders? Does citizenship mean something or not? Does the law mean anything or not?
Comment by Peggy SO-IL Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 2:07 pm
I think the Senators request and commentary are legitmate. But pulling the 5 mill if we use it to maintain our property seesm like cutting off our nose to spite our face
Comment by Ghost Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 2:10 pm
Yes,and here is the reason why:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJrcVvfv26Q
Comment by Me Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 2:17 pm
The real problem is with such a hideous and discriminatory law. Shucks, Senator, the White Sox bring a TON of tax dollars into Illinois! In these tough times, let’s encourage/support the team’s efforts–commercially and otherwise.
Instead, sponsor a Joint Resolution in Springfield castigating AZ’s travesty, and in the name of equal protection and decency, insisting on its’ immediate repeal or else face, for example, Illinois’ prohibition of all Arizona tourism commercials until such a repeal occurs….
Comment by Just The Way It Is One Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 2:23 pm
Totally 100% in favor of the AZ law. Do not agree with the Senator. This is a non-issue, entertainment provided just for the press.
Comment by Fan of Cap Fax Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 2:45 pm
>It’s about being detained and forced to show ID because the cop thinks somebody might be illegal.
Excuse me Rich, but every time you’re pulled over for a traffic violation you HAVE to show id. What makes you think that you don’t have to because you suddenly think it’s “racist?”
Comment by Segatari Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 2:54 pm
Good idea. Why should White Sox players be subject to harassment? If the team supports its players whose skin isn’t as white as their socks then they’ll move to another state.
Comment by Will Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 2:57 pm
Former Sox owner Bill Veeck pioneered spring training in Arizona. He had his AAA Milwaukee Brewers train there so the players wouldn’t have to deal with the Jim Crow South in Florida. If not for Florida’s racism in the ’40s and ’50s, Arizona might not have this industry at all.
Now Arizona has a law on the books that will make Carlos Quentin, Carlos Zambrano, Aramis Ramirez, Ramon Castro, Omar Vizquel, and many other major league players subject to police harassment simply because of their appearance. It’s as un-American as Jim Crow, and an excellent reason for baseball teams to start an exodus out of Arizona just like the one Bill Veeck started out of Florida.
All of the Cactus League teams should move to Hawaii. It’s prettier, the air isn’t as thin (unless someone trains on Mauna Loa), and the state government isn’t engaged in macho jackbooted fantasies.
Comment by Boone Logan Square Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 2:59 pm
Senator is wrong, it’s obvious he hasn’t even read the law. What doesn’t he understand about ILLEGAL. The law just enforces what the FEDS don’t.
Comment by Oh Really Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 3:00 pm
Boone, wonderful story on the great Bill Veeck, the man who broke the color line in the American League. The man was many years — and beers — ahead of his peers. And always just a few bucks short….
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 3:14 pm
It seems somewhat hypocritical to condemn Arizona and to threaten the Chicago White Sox for holding Spring training there. The White Sox organization had nothing to do with the passage of the law. Any American tourist who has visited Mexico can testify as to how much stricter that nation is with non-residents. If a foreigner commits any minor traffic infraction in Mexico, he would be lucky to simply be asked to show his identification papers. Sometimes, the authorities will confiscate your vehicle. In her former position as the governor of Arizona, Janet Napolitano, made a total mess of dealing with illegal immigration. In Washington, she has done a poor job as well. Illinois State Senator Martin Sandoval is a publicity seeking joke.
Comment by Honest Abe Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 3:27 pm
UISer
We’ll have to agree to disagree. As I said, the language mirrors Federal law. There must be other reasons that create “reasonable suspicion” before someone can be asked for papers.
Comment by Springfield Sceptic Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 3:42 pm
>This law allows law enforcement to ask for documentation regardless of whether or not a crime was committed.
http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf
Hey UISer - SHOW me exactly where it is by page and line number in the bill that actually SAYS THAT.
Comment by Segatari Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 3:52 pm
On that note, the Phoenix Suns are wearing their Cinco de Mayo uniforms to protest the new law, and the NBA players association has already come out against it.
MLB should follow suit, and soon.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 4:40 pm
No.
1) it’s marty sandoval….grandstander.
2) seriously, the White Sox just opened a new complex out there and they are supposed to up and leave because of a new law that they did not write or support, or probably even know about until it was passed? get a grip.
3) if Marty had guts, he would just say we need the money elsewhere and cut the budget. but he is pandering. and gutless.
and irritating. while the new law has some problems, illegal immigration is a big problem that the federal government is
not solving. While I don’t agree exactly with what Arizona
pols did, I do understand. it’s called illegal for a reason….
it’s illegal.
Comment by Amalia Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 4:41 pm
I have no problem at all with Sen Sandoval or anyone else using Teddy Roosevelt’s “bully pulpit” to influence public policy issues. Arizona wants to keep outsiders out, fine with me. I suspect they are going to get slammed by organized boycotts of their tourism and convention business, and that’s fine too. You call the tune, you pay the piper.
Comment by steve schnorf Wednesday, May 5, 10 @ 7:47 pm