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* This quote got me to thinking…
There was disappointment from Republican Judy Baar Topinka who lost the 2006 general election to Rod Blagojevich. She called the former governor a “bad man” and cannot believe the jury deliberated so long to find him guilty on just one count. […]
When asked if Republicans will get a boost since the Blagojevich problems hasn’t gone away, she said, “They were only too happy to recount George Ryan to us, he was convicted of 18 counts. He was penny ante compared to this guy.” [Emphasis added.]
* The Question: Who was the worse criminal, George or Rod? Explain.
We’re not talking about governing abilities here. And we’re not necessarily talking about the number of convictions, since Blagojevich’s ordeal is far from over. I’m simply asking your opinion on who you think was the worse criminal.
posted by Rich Miller
Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 10:57 am
Sorry, comments are closed at this time.
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Say what you will about Blago’s corruption but at least it did not have a death count.
Comment by tominchicago Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 10:59 am
Man, that’s tough. I’ll go with Blago, simply because he was so brazen about it, if you listen to the tapes. Also, I think he was much more sloppy than George Ryan, making him “worse.”
Comment by Cedra Crenshaw vs. The Machine Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 11:00 am
Who’s actions had the worst consequences? Well, George Ryan’s actions got people killed.
Who, on a personal level, is actively a worse person? I would say Rod Blagojevich for attempting to extort a hospital and trying to sell the senate seat.
Comment by Heartless Libertarian Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 11:01 am
Blago, and it’s not close. The death of the Willis children is certainly the most tragic option, no doubt. But the suggestion that Ryan intended to have children die is ludicrous. Blagojevich intended to withhold treatment for sick children.
And that’s before we take into account the selling of a Senate seat, the racetrack shakedowns, etc.
Ryan’s biggest offense was getting caught doing what most other politicians were doing, IMO. Blago took it to a whole new level.
Comment by Concerned Observer Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 11:02 am
*outcome, not option, in the second sentence of my post. Sorry.
Comment by Concerned Observer Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 11:03 am
I’d say Blago was more prolific, but Ryan put people in more danger. Neither gets a pass, both deserve everything they get/got.
Comment by Small Town Liberal Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 11:04 am
Ryan’s actions, while wrong, were an extension of the political culture of his time. Blago had the benefit of seeing what that cultural shift did to Ryan, and proceeded to willfully disregard those lessons and intentionally use his office for personal gain. Intent is a big factor in whether actions are criminal. Blago is the worse criminal.
Comment by Pundeete Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 11:05 am
Blago. I really think he is a sociopath, and would step on anyone (including his own family) to satisfy his ego. I don’t think he ever gave a whit about effective government. Although I never like George Ryan, and never voted for him (despite being an R), I don’t think you can say the same about him.
Comment by Park Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 11:07 am
A felon is a felon, I’d call it a draw.
Comment by Dan S, a taxpayer and a Cubs Fan Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 11:10 am
Who is worse? Come on George Ryan sold Commercial Drivers Licenses to unqualified truckers, how many of them are still on the road by the way? Many more people died than the Willits children. Say what you want about Blago, but there is no evidence he ever stole a dime of the taxpayers money and nobody died on his watch either. No comparison. How soon people forget what George Ryan did. Think of semis, they weigh 80,000 lbs., more deadly than a gun.
Comment by Fed up taxpayer Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 11:14 am
Change of subject but Costello is announcing the new major company coming to MidAmerica Airport right now. Watch is live at www.bnd.com.
Comment by Downstate Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 11:14 am
===Ryan’s actions, while wrong, were an extension of the political culture of his time. Blago had the benefit of seeing what that cultural shift did to Ryan, and proceeded to willfully disregard those lessons and intentionally use his office for personal gain. Intent is a big factor in whether actions are criminal. Blago is the worse criminal.
Rarely say this–ditto. I often compared Ryan to Rostenkowski. They didn’t change the times did. They deserved what they got, but they just didn’t understand the rules had changed (actually long ago Royko said this of Rosty)
Comment by ArchPundit Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 11:15 am
I think it’s a question of intent. Ryan, IMO, didn’t intend to break the law (and still claims he didn’t); he was operating from his old school ways and doing things the way he thought they were done. I don’t think he set out intending to financially benefit from corrupt actions.
Blago, it appears, intended from the beginning to take actions as governor that would financially benefit himself and those close to him. That makes him worse.
Comment by TwoFeetThick Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 11:15 am
Often Concerned Observer is right. Today too.
Comment by VanillaMan Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 11:16 am
I think Concerned Observer has it about right. Blago was a criminal enterprise from day one as governor.
Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 11:17 am
ArchPundit is also correct, in my opinion.
Comment by VanillaMan Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 11:17 am
I think my nickname says it all…….
Comment by He Makes Ryan Look Like a Saint Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 11:17 am
Rod set out from before day 1 to conspire with his inner sanctum to enrich himself beyond belief while proselytizing every single lobbyist and association to swing his way in the great shake down. GRyan appeared to like cash too, just in much smaller denominations. Rod hamstrung state government for years in his spree on Illinois - George didn’t. Rod’s the worst of the two.
Comment by in absentia Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 11:17 am
Rod hands down.
George’s offenses, while terrible, were done for the benefit of his friends, and he was the product of a different culture.
Rod’s were all about personal greed and advancement. Plus he came in promising to change the very practices which he ultimately turbocharged.
George, while a crook, was pretty straightforward. Rod was a phony through and through.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 11:18 am
100% agree with Pundeete.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 11:18 am
Van Man, Word:
We don’t always agree, and as a result I just wanted to say I really appreciated the kind words. Ya made my morning.
I should post here more often
Comment by Concerned Observer Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 11:26 am
No question, George Ryan was the bigger crook. Blago was like a street punk, shaking down other kids for quarters. Ryan was like a Crime Boss, using state government like a crime family. Blago was out for himself, on a small scale. Ryan ran his operation, from the local level to the state level, on a smooth, organized basis for decades. George could have showed Rod how it’s done.
Comment by Jim Ridings Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 11:27 am
Wow…so much love in this thread. It is really bringing people from different points of view together.
Comment by This Little Piggie Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 11:32 am
Rod for sure, I agree with Concerned Observer and Anonymous. The SOS selling was going on long before george got there. I dont think he knew to what degree they were selling those lic. Yes his friends made some money and he took some trips (wrong) for sure but Rod (criminal) from the start
Comment by Just Because Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 11:34 am
This QOTD is like your dentist asking if you’d rather have a root canal or have your gums scraped.
I can’t really answer who the bigger criminal is, but I’d much rather have a beer with George Ryan than Rod Blagojevich. Despite his crimes, I truly believe Ryan is a decent man. If Rod is never convicted of anything else, he is still a despicable human being, on many levels.
Comment by 47th Ward Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 11:36 am
I don’t think that either man is evil incarnate, like so many do. The depth of corruption of both men are what I use to judge them. Ryan used the old school patronage and doing things for “friends.” Roddy, while more vain, used the system to advance his career. Neither man appears to have personally benefitted from their actions. Roddy’s actions provoked a constitutional crisis bigger than did Ryan, reaching into the Federal level.
I think that the scales are just about balanced on these two guys.
Comment by Cincinnatus Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 11:36 am
Ryan’s actions may have reflected the political culture at the time, and the times did change, but I have a hard time reconciling a belief that he had no intent.
As I recall, there was a forensic accountant (or someone like that) who testified at his trial that he never withdrew any money from his bank or somethign to that effect. That’s certainly suspect. He undoubtedly knew how his campaign coffers were being filled by employees who had the arm put on them. And he no doubt knew about squashing the internal investigation into bribes at DL facilities. That’s enough intent for me.
All that said - George Ryan is undeniably the better person, but they’re equal criminals. Because of his sociopathic tendencies (and his lack of actual skill), Blagojevich will never get the romanticized treatment years after he’s convicted. IMO, Ryan shouldn’t either.
Comment by Thoughts... Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 11:40 am
ArchPundit, I saw an interview with Rosty where he admitted that he was aware that the rules changed, but disagreed with the new ones. That’s not the same as not knowing the rules changed.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 11:42 am
Who is a worse criminal? Why are we even asking this question? It shows how utterly pathetic our political discourse is. The fact that we are parsing degrees of criminal conduct of former governors instead of debating who is best suited to get us out of the mess the last 4 governors have put us in says it all. If we expected more from our elected officials and held them to higher standards maybe we would actually have something to look forward to in the near future.
Comment by willcountywiseguy Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 11:45 am
–Neither man appears to have personally benefitted from their actions.–
Blago built a giant campaign fund like the state had never seen through shakedowns, kickbacks and $25,000 jobs and appointments.
You can use that money for all sorts of things, including burying your opponent and paying your lawyers to beat the rap. He benefited plenty.
Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 11:49 am
Blago is worse, not even close. They didn’t even charge Roddy with the crimes that were committed before they started listening to him, such as the payments for jobs ($1,500 birthday gift) and appointments to various boards. Mr. Mell said the going rate was $50,000, and his coffers were full as a result. Plus, he let Hoffman and Phelps and others give out state jobs as fast as they could. He has been on the take since the day he won the election.
He governed with an intent to stick it to his enemies every day, and he didn’t care who he harmed in the process. Example: Look at his threatened closing of prisons in republican districts and the hiring of guards for the Thomson prison, only to end up not closing Joliet and making the Thomson guards travel to Joliet and elsewhere to work. Always with malice toward someone. He harmed so many citizens of this state you can’t put a number on it.
Comment by Stooges Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 11:51 am
I don’t agree with you, wordslinger. If either one of these guys were shipping off beaucoup bucks to some offshore account, I would personally want to kill them. Both used the money to advance their campaigns. If the Blago and Ryan stories tell us anything, it’s that we still haven’t adequately resolved the conflict between the 1st amendment right of free speech, and the financing of campaigns.
Comment by Cincinnatus Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 12:13 pm
Not to pile on with the ditto’s, but Pundeete pretty much sum up my sentiment as well. Ryan came out of the good old boy political network and that was just the way politics operated. Blago actively plotted to extend far beyound what ryan had done, and after seeing what happened to ryan. I was dissapointed that Busch did not pardon Ryan.
Comment by Ghost Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 12:13 pm
Death by electric chair or by firing squad?
George more crime by omission while Blago by commission. George shows more shamed; Blago more sociopathic. George more sympathetic; Blago more reprehensible. George more victimized by staff, esp. Fawell who facilitated and furthered conspiracy; Blago the ringleader who bullied staff and, to some extent, saved by staff not listening to him (can you imagine Blago w/ a Fawell!) George, death penalty moratorium; Blago, free bus rides for seniors. George–Willis children; Blago–Impeachment. On balance–Blago’s a crook who happened to be a politician; George a corrupt politician who happened to get convicted of some crimes.
Comment by D.P. Gumby Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 12:16 pm
Blago is worse for the simple reason he campaigned on anti-corruption, yet from day one, did everything he could to personally profit from his position, no matter how illegal the acts were that he committed. He often arranged to do these things away from the governor’s office, proving he knew this was wrong. He and his fiends sat around a table and planned out the most effective methods to screw Illinois to make money for themselves. And yes, he’s a sociopath. Whatever Fitzgerald did to make others say he was wrong, he did us all a favor when the arrest of this scary indivdual resulted in his immediate impeachment.
Comment by Wensicia Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 12:16 pm
I say Blago due to the pervasiveness of his corruption, and due to the fact that its long term effects upon the state will be much greater. Yes, Ryan ran up considerable debt with the Build Illinois plan but nothing like Blago has done.
The fiscal nuclear apocalypse (I think it’s gone beyond “train wreck”) we find ourselves in today is for the most part Blago’s legacy (although Quinn and the GA have certainly not made things any better).
To those who argue that Blago’s actions didn’t kill anyone… well, the time may yet come when they do, albeit indirectly (prison riot, road/bridge/other facility collapse, etc.)
Comment by Bookworm Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 12:17 pm
Sorry…two typos..friends, individual.
Comment by Wensicia Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 12:18 pm
Ryan. It wasn’t just the Willis kids — there was a trail of death and injury across the nation caused by those unqualified drivers who received licenses as a pay off to the contributors. And he used taxpayer funds by fielding a political army, paid with compensatory time — and he tried to cover it all up. I always liked Judy, voted for her in 2006, but now she has lost me — I guess I sit her election out.
Comment by justsickofit Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 12:20 pm
Blago is worse.
Ryan never inflicted that haircut on the state.
Comment by IrishPirate Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 12:22 pm
Its hard so say who is the bigger criminal. I believe it is sufficient to say that each man, not only did a bad job as Governor, but betrayed the trust that voters placed in them.
Both of them deserve some quiet time in the vertical bar hotel.
Comment by Plutocrat03 Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 12:30 pm
Blagojevich by far. He did everything he could to undermine all of the appropriate foundations of state government. Ryan, in my opinion, was actually a pretty good governor. Ryan’s story rises to the level of tragedy, because he was in many ways a good and courageous person, but had a tragic flaw. Blagojevich’s story is pure farce, because he has no substantive good qualities. His only virtue is a sort of superficial charm, which does not charm anybody any more because we have seen what is behind it.
Comment by jake Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 12:46 pm
I see nearly no difference in what they did, although to some degree (and this may be just because of my lack of recollection of the Ryan trial), it seemed that Ryan was more concerned with raising campaign funds, while Blago was looking for personal profit and I view the corrupt pursuit of personal profit to be a bit worse.
But more important to me is how they handled matters at the end. George Ryan at the end tried to save his soul by finally doing the right thing on the death penalty.
That goes a long way for me. I can forgive him. Part of him knew that he was lost and had to do something to save himself. Blago hasn’t given me a reason to think he gives a “darn”.
Comment by Skeeter Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 12:53 pm
===ArchPundit, I saw an interview with Rosty where he admitted that he was aware that the rules changed, but disagreed with the new ones. That’s not the same as not knowing the rules changed.
Fair enough–I hadn’t seen that, but assuming it’s accurate that changes Rosty’s position. I think it probably still holds for Ryan though.
Comment by ArchPundit Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 12:53 pm
George Ryan was the closing chapter in the chronicle of 20th century political corruption in Illinois.
Rod Blagojevich is the opening chapter in the chronicle of 21th century political corruption in Illinois.
So I’ve got to give the nod to Blago.
– MrJM
Comment by MrJM Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 1:10 pm
Agree with what I perceive the majority is saying. Ryan was old school politician-wink & nod crooked, but got things done. Blago was just a big-haired crook who just stopped everything when he didn’t get his way. Didn’t vote for either, but feel that state was better off with Ryan.
Comment by Downstate Commissioner Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 1:27 pm
Rod Blagojevich was convicted on one count - lying to the Federal government. If you’re calling him a ‘criminal’ you would be wise to point out that conviction is what you’re referring to. Being accused of a crime (as in, the other 23 charges where there was no conviction) doesn’t make you a criminal.
Ryan’s convictions vs Rod’s conviction: No brainer. Ryan is/was far worse (if you really want to compare the two.)
Of course, no one on Earth has a right to judge. But whatever. Have fun.
Comment by Clarification Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 1:31 pm
Only in Illinois would this be a discussion!
Comment by Who cares Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 1:36 pm
Clarification: “Of course, no one on Earth has a right to judge.”
Please expound further on your unique philosophy of criminal justice in a civil society…
– MrJM
Comment by MrJM Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 1:37 pm
No question. Ryan was the worst criminal. Ryan’s actions His actions cost children their lives. Rod is fresher in everyone’s memory but the consequences of his decisions are small compared to those of ryan’s.
Comment by Central Illinois Voter Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 1:50 pm
Blago wins being the absolute worst. He truly is vindictive, corrupt, and used state funds for his own pocket/purposes. He appointed people in state government because they were part of his “pay to play” scheme, not because they had any qualifications for their executive jobs. Even his Chicago democrats could not stop him - not the Madigans X2, not Daley, not Durbin, not Obama, et al. and the democrats all voted for his impeachment. Remember he had the president of the Illinois Senate, Emil Jones, in his pocket. Ryan was a “good-old-boy” politician who actually did his job as governor. The charges were actually against him when he served as Secretary of State.
Comment by seebee Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 1:51 pm
Blagojevich is the worse of the two simply on account of his constant scheming. Ryan had only one term as governor, but he was a much more effective crook than Rod. George’s plots generally paid off throughout his career.
Rod conspired, but did not always manage to collect after he was re-elected. His shakedowns seemed more successful during his first term.
Comment by Honest Abe Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 1:54 pm
Of course, even if Ryan was old school, he still was surrounded by lawyers and aides who undoubtedly understood that the rules had changed. You can’t just say it has always been done this way and we don’t care to change as a defense when the rules change.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 1:54 pm
I think Blago, for a reason pointed up by Topinka making that comment.
In 2002, Blagojevich ran as a reformer, yet the testimony was that behind the scenes his scheme was already planned. In 2006, Topinka called him out as a crook, and Blagojevich very consciously knew he was a crook, but used the fundraising money he obtained from his scheme to wipe Topinka out with millions in advertising, to anesthetize the voting public and hide what was going on.
Blagojevich is a very concious, knowing, and deliberate crook.
Comment by Bubs Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 2:00 pm
===You can’t just say it has always been done this way and we don’t care to change as a defense when the rules change.
I think this is definitely true. However, the context of criminal behavior is different and if you are comparing Rod and Ryan, it’s pretty clear to me at least, that Ryan was guilty as sin, but his intent was different and he thought he did what everyone does. That’s not a defense, but it does change how I view him.
Beyond that, Rod Blagojevich attempted to run the entire state government as a personal enterprise to benefit him. Ryan certainly personally enriched himself, but it was through a far smaller scope.
Comment by ArchPundit Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 2:08 pm
“Rod is fresher in everyone’s memory but the consequences of his decisions are small compared to those of ryan’s.” True, Rod’s actions aren’t connected to anyone’s death. But the long-term consequences of his actions - all apparently driven by his ego and greed - will have a far-reaching effect on the State and have already impacted organizations and their staff who count on state funding for the services they provide. (Or the services they used to provide, given that some smaller agencies have had to shut their doors.)
Comment by cynically anonymous Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 2:25 pm
I wrote a biography of Ryan, “The Man Who Emptied Death Row.” People keep asking me, am I writing a book about Blago now? Nah, that would be redundant. I think the more interesting question is, why does neither man (and Rosty RIP) admit to any wrongdoing? What does that tell us about Illinois political culture? By 2006 everyone knew Blago was a crook, but the IL Dem establishment backed him. Why?
Comment by perry noya Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 2:25 pm
I meant 2004. As Sneed says, my fingers were typing too fast.
Comment by perry noya Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 2:26 pm
I’m with Concerned Observer all the way.
Comment by Dan Bureaucrat Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 2:29 pm
Blago was not only the worse criminal, he might be the worst governor this state has EVER had. Despite his bluster and claims to be for the “working man,” not once did he ever really do anything to make this a better state. From day one everything he did was designed to get himself reelected so he could continue to line the pockets of his friends and himself. Oh sure, he created All Kids, which is a money-losing sinkhole, and he gave seniors free rides, which they didn’t ask for and most don’t want; but even both of those programs were designed solely to help his reelection chances. Ryan, on the other hand, did many things to better the lot of the state and the people. His problem was lack of oversight of the people who were running his political campaigns, not a deliberate attempt to defraud the taxpayers ala Blagojevich.
Comment by The Mad Hatter Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 2:29 pm
All you folks saying Ryan was the more effective governor, which he was, let’s not forget, from 1999-2001 he had a fat state treasury under the 1990s economic boom. He would actually seek out state legislators to ask what he could spend money on in their district. “Can’t you use a million dollars?” Direct quote.
Comment by perry noya Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 2:37 pm
Blago, for the simple reason that he based his entire 2002 campaign on cleaning up springfield after the George Ryan years, then not only continued a culture of corruption, but also took it up a couple notches.
Comment by Anon Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 2:42 pm
The worst? George Ryan. Why?
Benjamin Willis.
Joseph Willis.
Samuel Willis.
Hank Willis.
Elizabeth Willis.
Peter Willis.
Everything else Blagojevich, Monk, Tusk, Cici, Doubet, Filan, et. al. did doesn’t compare to the loss of innocent human life.
Mad Hatter - Len Small paroled one of Capone’s people who killed a police officer. PLEASE tell me what Blago did that was worse than that.
Comment by Smittty Irving Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 2:43 pm
It seems people forget that George’s crooked actions were campaign issues from the time he ran against Cosentino thru his Secretary of State service. He even brought his former police chief from Kankakee with him to quash any investigations of George’s crimes. He also put his brother in a ghost payrolling job with IDOT in the Ottawa office, and nobody ever saw him come to work.
I know this blog is biased toward Republicans, but at least remember the real George Ryan. He is right where he belongs! Judy is not one to judge .
Comment by Tom Joad Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 2:49 pm
With Concerned Observer and others. Blago, for sure. Ryan was wrong, but also was a product of the past culture (which, apparently is alive and well). Blago was just a sociopath with no care for anyone. As for outcomes, does anyone believe that Blago’s actions caused no harm? The 24 counts only scratch the surface.
Comment by JustaJoe Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 2:50 pm
All I know is that Judy Baar Topinka’s comments have changed the dynamics of her race against State Rep. David Miller. Her public comments trivializing George Ryan’s conviction on 18 counts just reak of yesterday’s politics. She is all about yesterday and politics-as-usual.
Comment by downstater Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 2:54 pm
All I know is that Judy Baar Topinka’s comments have changed the dynamics of her race against State Rep. David Miller.
Lol! I support Miller, but I don’t believe that!
Comment by VanillaMan Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 3:00 pm
==I know this blog is biased toward Republicans==
LOL, that’s the funniest thing I’ve heard all day!
Comment by Anon Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 3:01 pm
I think that notwithstanding the unfortunate outcome of George Ryan and he eventually closed out his political career. I think Blago is the worst for how brazen he was. The law didn’t matter to him at all and this went beyond simple political horse trading that Ryan tried to put up as a defense.
Comment by Levois Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 3:05 pm
Blago, for sure. Ryan actually got things done, and I doubt if he intended for anyone to be harmed. Blago got next to nothing done, except reward people who agreed with him, punished those who didn’t, and didn’t care if he hurt people or not–the hospital shakedown is a good example of that.
Comment by Champaign Dweller Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 3:12 pm
Not that it’s a saving grace but only one of the two actually governed in this State.
Comment by Keyser Soze Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 3:13 pm
Don’t forget Ryan’s Illinois First debacle where a huge pile of money was created ostensibly for infrastructure. What was amazing was what qualified as infrastructure. Just another good ole boy slush fund for favors…. And we are still paying for it.
A step down the road of fiscal insolvency.
Comment by Plutocrat03 Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 3:27 pm
I agree wholeheartedly with Judy. Blago is worse by far. Just listen to the tapes. F-bombs everywhere. What did Rod really think? In his own words, “(Expletive) the people” who didn’t appreciate him while he spent $400Gs on clothes.
Ryan, guilty as he was, was not convicted of any charges involving the Willis family children. Neither was he sued by the Willis family for any role in their tragic deaths. To impute responsibility for their deaths to Ryan goes further than the prosecutors or family were willing to go in court.
Comment by UP Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 3:30 pm
Worst Governor Ever is a heated competition. Small had the gangsters but his administration also paved a lot of previously mud roads. The first governor, Ninian Edwards, I believe once led a raid that killed a bunch of Indian women and children, then tried to pass it off as a great victory.
Comment by Excessively Rabid Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 3:34 pm
RB since he knew about the Ryan situation and he milked it for political benefit and put in the ethics test. This in no way should diminish what happened to the Willis family and Ryan’s involvement in that. Concerned Observer had it right earlier.
Comment by dupage dan Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 3:41 pm
Rod did more damage to the state, but people died because of Ryan. Ryan.
Comment by Ahoy Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 3:48 pm
I can’t disagree strongly enough, that Ryan was responsible for the Willis kids’ death. I truly believe that people aren’t familiar with the case or Ryan’s convictions. Where was he charged with that?
Our state was in better shape with George at the helm and I am sorry that people don’t appreciate that schools were built and roads were restructured under Ryan.
I will put Ryan’s capabilities up against Blago’s any day.
Blago was just a no show governor. Ryan worked 80 hour weeks.
What next, will we compare Patti to Lura Lyn?
Comment by PPHS Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 4:07 pm
Excessively Rabid -
Are you saying paving dirt roads excuses the pardoning of cop killers?
Comment by Smittty Irving Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 4:08 pm
Defense of Ryan, Rosty, Blago, the rules changed and the culture changed but they didn’t keep up, they came from the old machine, not outdated, they were unhip. BS. Rosty said to the end, I might have violated some House rules but I didn’t commit any felonies. BS. Fraud and misappropriation of funds are old laws, not new ones. Why do so many people want to make excuses for our crooked pols?
Comment by perry noya Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 4:15 pm
Many of us in Chicago grew up knowing only crooked pols. Why should anyone be taken aback that we make excuses for them? Crooks are a way of life Paddy Bauler basically had it right. By the way I shook hands and exchanged small talk with both Ryan and Blago, they were both just great guys.
Comment by Rod Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 4:26 pm
Concerned Observor gets it right particulary when it comes to intentions.
There is no evidence that Blago ever acted from purely good intentions - every policy, decision or act seemed calculated as to how it could best serve Blago. In contrast, Ryan did act with noble intention and political courage IMHO when he vetoed abortion limits and issued a moratorium on the death penalty. Those grace notes make Ryan, while still flawed, infinitely better than Blago.
Comment by 10th Indy Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 4:34 pm
I don’t know which was worse. I have no love for either one. But I want to set the record straight.
It is absolutely wrong to say that no one ever died as a result of Rod Blagojevich’s actions.
Kim Bigley was a 19-year veteran of IDOC who had worked her way up through the ranks to become warden at Shawnee Correctional Center when Rod Blagojevich was elected.
She was one of several wardens who believed Rod Blagojevich when he pledged during his first campaign that he would not fire competent employees who had served under Republican governors.
Later, the Governor’s lawyers defended his actions by saying his promise not to fire good employees was just “classic political puffery.”
She was fired and had to take a job as a security worker for the United Nations in Kosovo, where she and other security officer were shot by a Jordanian militant.
Had Blagojevich not lied during his first campaign and not fired competent, capable employees(the Blagojevich administration never claimed that any of the fired wardens were not doing a good job)Bigley would still be alive.
If you’ve never heard of Bigley it is probably because she had several strikes against her: She was an adult and not a young child; She was a Republican and the Governor responsible was a Democrat; She lived in Southern Illinois, outside the Chicago media market.
Comment by Setting the Record Straight Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 4:57 pm
It’s pretty much ‘a draw’ for me. Both were as corrupt as they could be. Blago was just more of a bumbling idiot, leaving the state in shambles.
Comment by tunes Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 5:13 pm
Plutocrat got me thinking…how about a QOTD:
Which governor has pushed Illinois furthest along to insolvency?
Comment by Leroy Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 5:29 pm
@Champaign Dweller — I would urge you to go to the trial documents and read the memo from Magoon, the Chair of the Illinois Hospital Association PAC, and CEO of Children’s Memorial. Maybe you will question just who was shaking down whom.
Comment by justsickofit Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 5:29 pm
About equally corrupt, Blago caused more harm with his incompetence than with his corruption.
Ask this questions again when Stroger is put on trial..
Comment by gklass Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 5:47 pm
Once again Topinka is off her rocker. Of course George was worse. Knowingly covered up corruption that directly led to 6 kids being burned alive on the highway. What’s Topinka thinking?
Comment by just sayin' Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 5:49 pm
After all this discussion, — who is worse, Ryan or Blago — the all time champ of Illinois crooks remains Len Small, governor of Illinois in the 1920s. He was friends with the Klan, sold pardons to Capone’s killers, went on trial for embezzling a million dollars and then was acquitted because he bribed the jury. No one beats Len Small.
Comment by Jim Ridings Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 5:57 pm
Len Small and George Ryan-Kankakee Represent!
Comment by ourMagician Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 6:03 pm
George Ryan didn’t kill those children. You must remember that the Willis family was killed when part of an automobile fell off, hitting the Willis van which then crashed and burned. While I’m not a fan of defending him, in all liklihood the van would have been driven by someone and the piece would have falled off (probably not resulting in death). The fact that the driver has an ill-gotten license does not equate to the piece of metal falling off the truck.
Comment by 4 percent Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 6:19 pm
A crooks a crook, what difference does it make. Together they have nearly destroyed this state!
Comment by PeteSakes Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 6:36 pm
It is hard to argue with the body count argument re: Ryan. Ryan’s actions affected more people and in a more serious way on a personal level.
But Blago, IMO, left a bigger stain on the political system.
So who is the worse criminal? Probably Ryan in a photo finish. I think Phil Rock is right though: homeboy is elderly, disgraced and broke. Time to let him go–we have a new poster-boy.
Comment by Obamarama Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 6:53 pm
I hate to make too many people on here think too hard, but let me pose a simple question. It’s probably not far afield to speculate that of the large number of people that pay bribes to SoS employees and get driver’s licenses to which they are not entitled, some have had accidents, likely causing injuries and maybe even deaths.
This has been going on as long as anyone around here knows. Who are responsible for those deaths, if GHR is responsible for the Willis children? What if the driver is driving on a suspended or revoked license, who is responsible for the accident? What if they are 15 and don’t even have a license, who is responsible for those accidents? What if they have a valid license, who is responsible (hint-their high school driver’s ed teacher ain’t gonna carry a lot of weight with me)?
Are that many of you too ignorant to think, or are you just not willing?
Comment by steve schnorf Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 7:17 pm
Schnorf I think the issue is that when crimes are committed by politicians they are seen through a different lens.
In other words, I don’t think most observers look at the two cases in the same way that they would if you redacted the names and substituted the word “Governor” for “CFO” or something like that. Then there is the spin. Ultimately it is the image of government that suffered with Ryan and Blago made it worse by branding our state. Well he didn’t brand it but the media and spinsters did.
Comment by Obamarama Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 8:06 pm
George. The Willis children died, the Willis parents were burned and are haunted. Fawell on tv, WGN I think, last night. YUK!
Comment by Amalia Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 8:25 pm
oh, yeah, and Ryan for wiping Death Row clean. no consideration of individual cases, just a blanket
boo hoo the system is bad. just picture it, if
John Wayne Gacy were still on death row, Ryan
would have wiped his slate clean. look up the cases
individually, horrible people who deserved the death penalty
for their crimes.
Comment by Amalia Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 8:29 pm
Ryan by far. He was smart and did criminal deeds with full knowledge of what he was doing and who he was benefiting. Blago was and is a rather dim blowhard. Ryan’s cynical and incredibly self serving clearing of Death Row to influence his possible jury pool trumps Blago attempting to do the same thing by going on ‘The Apprentice’ by several miles. Add the heartache of the victims families to the heartache of the Willis’ and compare it to the fantasies of Blago and you have your winner.
Comment by walter sobchak Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 9:18 pm
Blago by far. Think of all the children denied hospital care because he held up state funding while attempting to shake the hospital CEO down for $50K. How many of them died slow, horrible, suffering deaths, with the vain but dashed hopes that Rod would fund the hospital they were so desperate to have treat them? Meanwhile, Rod is living the high life, spending $400K+ on clothes and saying screw the people on tape.
Yes, Blago for causing the cruel cold suffering and deaths of children while he held out for a campaign donation.
Comment by Realist Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 9:39 pm
Well,the 3 “responses” and the remaining voluminous silence, I guess I know my answer
Comment by steve schnorf Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 9:41 pm
Steve, the people who blame Ryan for the Willis children are using a “but for” analysis. It goes: but for the pressure on SOS employees to purchase fundraising tickets they couldn’t afford to buy on their salaries, they wouldn’t have sold CDLs to unqualified drivers. But for the ill-gotten CDL, the driver would not have been able to get hired by the trucking company and would not have been operating the truck that day. Thus, the accident would not have happened. Some also point out that if the driver had been forced to learn English to take the CDL test, he would have known what the other motorists were yelling when they were telling him that the part was dragging beneath the truck and pulled over. I don’t know if this is true — the test may be offered in Spanish.
So that is the logic people are following. The flaws are that the accident wasn’t caused by poor driving, but a mechanical problem. A part fell off the truck and the Willises drove over it, causing an explosion. If a legally licensed driver were operating the truck, a similar accident could have happened. Further, it is not clear if the drivers are responsible for maintaining the trucks or if the company has mechanics that are supposed to do that.
I agree with Amalia that it was shameful for Ryan to give a blanket commutation however, after promising the decisions would be made on a case by case basis and wasting the time of prosecutors and the victims’ families by having hearings before the Prisoner Review Board on each case. It seems clear that he did so to curry favor with the jury pool.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 9:56 pm
Rod.
George liked the state, he liked the employees and while he got greedy & made errors in judgement, he didn’t punsih the state employees.
Rod swept dept budgets clean, he imposed hiring freezes for everyone except for those who contributed to his campaign; it was clear the he used the state as his own piggy bank and the state employees were only budget drains. When ABC7 talked with troopers early on, he punished ALL troopers for it. Rod was not proud or even liked the state or state employees while George did.
George is humbled and apologetic now while Rod….
Comment by North of I-80 Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 10:16 pm
Mr. Schnorf I am not certain that everyone can be held to the same standards regarding indirect consequences leading to the loss of human life. Decisions have to be made and sometimes those decisions will be wrong. The wrong indian camp, the wrong man being executed. We can spin words that make us feel more comfortable about who we voted for and worked for but even when they are far better men than Ryan and Blago they are still human and will be wrong What we can do is hold people responsible for their intentions. Ryan and Blago both intended to use their positions for their own benefit. The record may show that Ryan could play the game better and make it seem like he was governing but the differences between these two felons is one of spin and degree not one of kind.
Comment by Matthew Vernau Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 10:40 pm
Given that Ryan was a far more competent crook than Blago, I think it only fair to give the nod to Ryan. If not for the tragedy of the Willises, Ryan might now be enjoying his golden years with Lura.
Comment by TruthSeeker Thursday, Aug 19, 10 @ 11:13 pm
What many of you do not know is that there were 22 or 23 other states besides Illinois where bribes were buying licenses. The only difference is they could not be linked to a campaign fund. Yes, the Willis children’s deaths breaks my heart, but how many of you have or have known politicos that have gotten out of DUIs or drug charges? The same rule applies. What if JJJ ran a red light on the way to the capitol and killed an innocent child? At least George Ryan was sane and Blago didn’t have the chance to harm Illinoians, but he has made MANY PEOPLE SUFFER; losing jobs, homes, etc. Hands down it is Blago. He is sick…..
Comment by NRA associate Friday, Aug 20, 10 @ 6:58 am