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* Sen. Ed Maloney has introduced legislation requiring homeschooling parents to register their kids with the Illinois State Board of Education. The Right is not amused…
“There are virtually no regulations on homeschools. No curriculum, no periodic checks on their progress. Regional superintendents tell me they have no way of knowing whether a home-taught student is truant or not,” he said. “We want more accountability.” […]
“He says he wants to just register us, then says we don’t have curriculum requirements,” the mother of four said. “Some of our curriculum is religious. Should a public school system be able to accept or reject that?” […]
Homeschooling parents are passionate about their freedoms and responsibilities toward their children’s education. They are committed to the task and ask only to be left alone, nothing more. And all the time they are paying property taxes to subsidize government schools. […]
Homeschooling parents are required to obey Illinois’ compulsory school attendance law that says every Illinois child ages 7 through 17 must attend a school that teaches the branches of education comparable to those taught in the public school system. The law also says those subjects must be taught in the English language.
* The Question: Do you think homeschooled kids should have to register with the state to make sure basic education standards are being met? Explain.
posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 10:12 am
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This looks like a nod to the teachers’ unions who usually contribute big bucks to the politicians –primarily, but not exclusively, Democrats.
My experience has been that many home schooled students who reach college oftentimes outperform their peers who attended public schools. Still, I think that it might be okay to keep tabs on which students are being home schooled to make sure that they are really putting in the hours. I would draw the line at the bureaucrats dictating the entire curriculum.
Comment by Honest Abe Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 10:17 am
State Senator Maloney is, of course, a former school teacher/administrator — albeit from a parochial school.
Comment by Honest Abe Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 10:18 am
Depends if you believe the primary responsibility of parenting lies with the parent or the state.
Comment by Regular Reader Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 10:21 am
I think this is another case of the Home Schoolers getting their drawers in a bind over the state
It’s great that you wish to educate your child at home, but I do believe they do need to keep the same standards as others, it’s the same thing as the fight over the curfews in Carlinville………
Comment by I'm Just Saying Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 10:21 am
RR, try to answer the question, please.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 10:23 am
As part of a couple with a nice house and no kids, I’ve happily paid a lot of property tax to the Urbana school system for many years. It’s a huge mistake to think of education as a benefit that belongs to the student alone: it is in all of our interest that all students receive a good education. For what it’s worth, my parents brought up my brother and me with the idea that we’d know more than they did and had exposure to different points of views. (This is why I am viscerally unsympathetic to home schooling.) While I respect that many people feel differently, it is not unreasonable to ask that home schoolers meet minimal standards.
Comment by The old professor Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 10:25 am
It seems to me an example of a politician trying to get his hooks into something he can’t control. Is there a problem with home school students not performing adequately, not being able to function in society, not handling collage, shooting up their neighborhoods, joining gangs?
If not, maybe he should shut up or better yet, introduce a bill requiring all children be home schooled.
Comment by Phineas J. Whoopee Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 10:27 am
I’m surprised they’re not already registered with the state. This seems like a no-brainer to me (another childfree person who doesn’t mind paying for public schools).
Comment by Cheryl Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 10:28 am
that teaches the branches of education comparable to those taught in the public school system. The law also says those subjects must be taught in the English language.
Oh, so there is no bi-lingual Ed in IL? So cool to find that out.
Do you think homeschooled kids should have to register with the state to make sure basic education standards are being met?
NO. If you like, let them take the same standard test that public schools take, to see where they are at.
There are examples of superintendents harassing home schoolers in this state. Right now, the home schoolers have a lot of protection. No reason they should give that up.
and had exposure to different points of views. (This is why I am viscerally unsympathetic to home schooling.)
You mean different PoV than occur in public schools?
Comment by Pat Collins Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 10:29 am
Yes, they should be held to the same standards as other students and parents. You can’t just decide which laws you will abide by and which you won’t. That said, I doubt that the state would be able to enforce or even check anything after the registration process. Just look at what a stellar they do regulating public and private schools.
Comment by Bill Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 10:30 am
I meant College, duh
Comment by Phineas J. Whoopee Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 10:30 am
Sure Rich… Two thoughts:
1) The primarily responsibility lies with the parent. The short of it: I don’t agree with the state enacting regulations here.
2) Why the need? It seems homeschoolers aren’t the ones falling behind. Why try to fix what isn’t broken?
Comment by Regular Reader Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 10:36 am
Actually, I think it also has to do with whether you believe the primary responsibility of educating lies with the parent or the state. Clearly the state has an interest in seeing whether children who say they are being home schooled, are in effect really being home schooled. My younger sister is being home schooled phenomenally and is testing off of the map. So letting the state know not to expect her in class doesn’t seem unreasonable.
Comment by anon Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 10:37 am
Wow, PJW, I guess if someone doesn’t agree with you they “should shut up”
This is why we have many of the problems that we do…..
Comment by I'm Just Saying Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 10:37 am
I don’t see anything in the bill (assuming Fran’s reference is correct on the bill)
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/fulltext.asp?DocName=&SessionId=84&GA=97&DocTypeId=SB&DocNum=0136&GAID=11&LegID=54913&SpecSess=&Session=
I don’t see anything that says anything about standards. So is it just a registration act? If so what does it do to say that any sort of basic standard is met? I don’t see anything new that talks about meeting any sort of standard.
If so I guess I don’t have a big issue with it, but I can understand how homeschool parents might see this as a first step in the state having more of a say over curriculum.
Comment by OneMan Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 10:38 am
More senseless regulation, creating more senseless bureaucracy to harass people who have broken no law and just want to educate their kids themselves.
Illinois is so deeply in the tank with special interests, particularly unions, that the General Assembly should be renamed Local 1 of the International Brotherhood of Legislators.
This is the classic case of a solution in search of a problem.
Comment by Adam Smith Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 10:40 am
“This is why we have many of the problems that we do…..”
Although I appreciate your thoughts, I think you over estimate my influence.
Comment by Phineas J. Whoopee Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 10:42 am
yes, we pay dearly for illiteracy, its in societies interest to make sure there is a basic level. These arent amish who are not part of our economy. there are long term implications if people cant function. We are one of few states that allow this to continue. Time to join the modern era.
Comment by frustrated GOP Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 10:44 am
Let’s tone it down, people. No reason to be so harsh. Final warning.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 10:47 am
I come from the perspective of having 2 siblings who home schooled their children. 1 for religious reasons and 1 for educations reasons. All 8 children from both families tested far higher than their peers when they did finally attend public education institutions. For a variety of reasons, the various children entered into the public education institutions at various times starting with grade school thru high school.
I also taught in an alternative high school for several years in the ’80’s. Our school was part of the National Coalition of Alternative Community Schools (ncacs.org). This organization represents not only alternative schools but also home schoolers.
Historically, states have tried this before. It is an attempt to create regulations that can smother families with all sorts of requirments and dissuade them from schooling their children at home.
Lest some here raise the whole “socialization” issue I would respond, pre-emptively, that my siblings children were involved in many after school programs including scouting programs and sports programs. Because children can be involved in some after school activities sponsored by the school they were able to be involved in other activities as well.
There is plenty of evidence that home schooled children excel due to the personal attention they receive. Peer pressure to conform to inappropriate activity is less evident as is the liklihood that a child would be bullied by someone other than a sibling.
I admit to having had concerns about how some students may be limited in their world view because of being taught in a strict religious home school environment. ALL my former contacts with the alternative school community as well as those in my own family have dispelled that completely. It should not surprise us that any intelligent person reaching adulthood can come to their own conclusions about the world.
Comment by dupage dan Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 10:48 am
Troll much bored now?
Comment by OneMan Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 10:48 am
I don’t see home schoolers as being a problem. Plenty of homeschoolers excel on standardized tests, though of course there are parents who don’t make the effort to really teach their kids but just want to keep them home. However, with IL public schools having the problems that they have - with spending and funding, with performance, and with inequities - why is anyone focusing on homeschoolers?
Comment by lawyerlady Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 10:49 am
I think that the State of Illinois has more serious problems and issues before it then the registration of home schooled children. This should just die quietly in committee.
Comment by Fed-Up Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 10:51 am
More unncessary state intrusion.
My sister homeschooled her five kids with no help or registration from the state. The oldest is an officer in the Air Force, the next oldest is an honors student at a Top 10 Law School, the third is president of his college class where he’s currently enrolled. Guess it’s too early to tell how the next two will turn out since they’re both still at home learning 19th century science.
Comment by Rarely posts Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 10:54 am
That’s a little harsh Bored, don’t you think?
The Governor’s P-20 Council and the IBHE Public Agenda process has been underway for over a year. One of the key recommendations of both efforts is to develop a longitudinal data base to track student achievement from preschool into the workforce. The feds are pushing this too. I think that’s the genesis of Maloney’s idea, not some plot to undermine homeschooling.
The idea is that we can’t make good policy choices without more data. Because students change schools, drop out, drop back in, etc., it is hard to tell how different schools compare and whether and how schools are meeting state standards.
Homeschooled students take almost all of the same standardized tests that in-school students take. In many instances they outperform their peers. But without access to good, systemic data, we don’t really know how well our education system is working and moreover, we don’t know where the specific problems lie.
I know this is an issue many are passionate about. Just spend a few minutes at IL Review if you don’t believe me. There is nothing inherently wrong with homeschooling. And there is nothing inherently wrong with asking these parents to register their students and contribute to the data collection efforts.
Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 10:56 am
I am really, really torn about whether this would be a good idea or not.
My husband and I homeschooled our daughter, who has special needs, for several years when she was young. We all enjoyed it and only gave it up when a change in our financial circumstances forced both of us to go to work full time. After that our daughter had to go to public school, and she has never done quite as well since. So we are very pro-homeschooling.
Parents are the primary educators of their children. Most parents delegate some or most of this duty to schools (public or private); homeschoolers choose not to. Schools exist to help parents carry out THEIR duty to educate — not the other way around.
I understand why homeschoolers are averse to any kind of registration requirement… they figure if you give the state an inch they will take a mile and eventually start dictating everything.
On the other hand… I could see where a properly written statute could actually HELP homeschoolers by firmly establishing their right to homeschool (not simply leaving it up to the courts) and clearly setting out what local school authorities can and cannot do. It might clear up a lot of confusion and protect homeschool families from being harassed unnecessarily or falsely accused of allowing their children to be truant.
Comment by Secret Square Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 10:59 am
I can’t find Bored’s comment. We’re going to have to start calling Miller Mr. Eraser!
Comment by Bill Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 11:02 am
if you are true homeschooler, you are already taking advantage of a lot of services private and public and this isn’t a big deal. If you are doing nothing with your kids, besides them, who pays for your errors. The rest of us do. But how many are out there, we don’t even know.
Comment by frustrated GOP Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 11:03 am
Given that the number of children who are home schooled is actually quite small, I don’t think having data from their test scores will really cause much of a difference in the overall data the state wishes to collect. The history of these actions show an unfortunate pattern of antipathy towards home schoolers so they are naturally skeptical any time someone proposes something under some “innocent” guise. How hard would it be to communicate with home schoolers and get to know the community. People school their children at home frequently because they don’t trust the state. Many who post here would understand that stance.
Comment by dupage dan Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 11:11 am
Yes. It’s not just about costs to the greater community for school and standards, it’s about making sure that small people who are growing up in our society are well cared for, giving their parents a pause to think, and perhaps some tools for learning. In my neighborhood there is speculation about homeschooling for some kids who spend time beyond gym and recess playing, all around the neighborhood. The behavior of children, schooled or home schooled, is of importance to the surrounding community.
Of course, then there is the other thought….thankfully problematic family is out of the way of the others going to the school.
Comment by amalia Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 11:12 am
No, I don’t believe the government has the right to require registration of homeschooled children.
Comment by TD Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 11:12 am
Yes. They even do this in the South and it works great for both the parents and the kids. Illinois should look into how TN does this.
Comment by Ahoy Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 11:14 am
I agree with Secret Square; but there are always two sides of the coin. I have known home-schooled children that cannot adapt to life outside the house. They have dropped out of college, have no direction and are socially challenged. However, there are also very good home-schooled children.
The other side is true too… There are many phenomenal children who are taught in the public school, and there are under performing children as well.
Registration is not a bad idea; neither is ensuring proper testing. I knew a mother whose idea of home-schooling was plucking her child in front of a computer for online schooling — she did nothing. Home schooled children have parents that are engaged; whether you are in a public school or a home-school engaged parents are the key to a worthwhile education.
Comment by Paul S. Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 11:15 am
There is a strong state interest in making sure that minimum standards are being met. We have truancy laws, and the only way to ensure that the law is being followed is a closer examination of which children are legitimately home schooled and which are just truant.
Comment by Sweet Lou Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 11:20 am
Dan, the article estimated that as many as 60,000 Illinois children are homeschooled. 2% of all students is a significant subset of the population. All we have now is anecdotal evidence. Better data would probably help the cause of homeschool advocates.
I really don’t understand the paranoia of some who think this is a plot to end homeschooling. The state has a legitimate interest in assuring quality education for all. Our economy is tied directly to our education system. Always has been, always will be.
I don’t get the controversy.
Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 11:21 am
One of America’s most serious problems is caused by parents Not being involved in their children’s lives-Not vice versa.
I’m sure there must be examples, but I have truly never heard one, of a home school child having or causing problems. Every day, if I choose to look, I can find public or private school children with problems and issues.
The vast majority of parents who choose to home school are very committed to their children’s future. There are many, many educational problems that need to be solved in Illinois, this is not one of the problems. Frankly, it’s some parents only safety net away from this States corrupt ways.
Comment by Phineas J. Whoopee Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 11:21 am
This is additional bureaucracy for its own sake. Sure, give homeschooled kids the same standardized testing as another other enrolled in public schools, but “registration” leads quickly to “approved curriculum” without cause.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 11:23 am
Hate to answer a question with a question, but…
Is there evidence that home-schooled kids are not achieving in college, or any other qualified measure, compared to non-home-schooled kids?
It would seem that there are plenty of failing public schools to focus attention upon than to focus on home-schoolers, unless that method is failing.
As a taxpayer, I’m more concerned about how the tax money is spent in failing public schools than creating more regulations for kids who don’t use tax resources and are not failing.
Maybe I’m most concerned that the reporter covering this and the legislators promoting this new law didn’t provide any research on these points.
Comment by Madison County Watcher Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 11:24 am
I read some comments from some folk and wonder, can you really compare home schooling to that which takes place in a public school? I know some instances where the public school is “plunking” the student down in front of a computer expecting that to be education. The issue here should be performance. Testing may not be the best way to discover how well a person is educated but it is used in public schools to track our schools. Can that be adapted in some way so that home schooled children can be tracked? You can bet that it has been tried elsewhere. Some investigation should occur to see what is going on elsewhere. That is assuming that this excercise is really only about tracking learning data. And that is the only thing it should be about. Anything else will be viewed as intrusion. The home schooling community may seem small and not well organized as its’ members views are widely disparate. Don’t be surprised when you see how strong a response you will get from that community.
Comment by dupage dan Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 11:27 am
47th-
You said, “I really don’t understand the paranoia of some who think this is a plot to end homeschooling. The state has a legitimate interest in assuring quality education for all…”
The latter quickly leads back to former, for two reasons. Who decides what is “quality education” beyond the benchmark of standardized testing, which homeschooled kids already take? The answer from established public school supporters is “we do”– which is why charter schools are a threat, as is homeschooling.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 11:28 am
Now that I’m thinking about it, perhaps this law is a “teachable moment” for homeschoolers.
When they leave their home and go out in the world, how else will they have learned about our countries public systems of over-bearing regulation and governmental bureaucracy?
This new law will teach them what they would have learned in public schools…the world is full of government-funded and government-pushed obstacles that don’t serve any real purpose but are there because some disconnected do-gooder thought it was necessary.
Comment by Madison County Watcher Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 11:28 am
Sure, why not register? And why not test at some point? If we don’t, what’s the point of the law that kids attend school? I’m thinkin them there Tea Partyers would like to eliminate that law, as well. Then they could teach their kids real “family values”.
Comment by wordonthestreet Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 11:28 am
Forgive my ignorance, but are private/parochial schools required to register their students with the state?
Comment by Frank Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 11:29 am
I don’t see the big deal here. What’s so wrong with having home schooled children register with the state and tested to see that they are meeting basic requirements?
Hats off to anyone who is willing and able to home school their children. I consider myself an intelligent person but I am not a teacher. I know my kids were in better hand with professionals.
I see this legislation as check and balance.
Comment by Because I say so Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 11:32 am
47th Ward,
The paranoia, as you put it, comes from the fact that the state has made many attempts to engage in what appears to be innocent acts but have been revealed to be nothing more than an attempt to stifle home schooling. Is that what is going on here? I don’t know. You can bet the home schooling community is abuzz right now. All over the country, not just in Illinois. There is too much history and I won’t get into it. I just know I have seen it in the past.
The “cause” of homeschooling is in the hands of the homeschoolers. They will make themselves heard.
Comment by dupage dan Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 11:33 am
This is a bad idea.
Homeschool families just want the government to leave them alone and, for various reasons, believe that they can educate their children better than the state. This law and Sen. Maloney’s comments imply that many of these students are not getting an education because the parents are using homeschooling as an excuse to allow them to just skip school. The reality is that homeschool parents work harder than most to ensure their kids are getting a good educations because they are the ones doing it. They have chosen to not send their kids away for most of the day to have someone else teach their kids, but opted to teach them themselves.
Call me overly suspicious, but the state, the teachers’ union and the public school system have not earned my trust that they are always looking out for the good of my family. I applaud homeschool families for taking the responsibility onto themselves. There is NO evidence that homeschooled kids are falling behind academically, either. To the contrary, they typically excel. I really wonder about the motivations behind this effort.
It seems less about truancy and more about control.
Comment by Joe D. Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 11:33 am
Three of our four children went to public schools and graduated with high grades. Our fourth was home schooled through an Illinois accredited school in high school level college placement classes. She graduated over a year earlier than she would have going to public school and with very good grades. In fact she qualifed for a college scholarship.
My impression: Public schools waste a lot of time and tax dollars.
Comment by Bill Bub Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 11:37 am
=This law and Sen. Maloney’s comments imply that many of these students are not getting an education because the parents are using homeschooling as an excuse to allow them to just skip school.=
I did not take from Maloney’s comments that he thinks home schooling is just an excuse to skip school as you felt he implied. You are over suspicious.
Comment by Because I say so Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 11:42 am
My thoughts are a bit conflicted.
It has been my understanding that homeschoolers in Illinois are considered “private” schools. And that as such, they are held to the same standards of any other private school–to teach “the branches of education taught to children of corresponding age and grad in public schools, and where the instruction of the child in the branches of education is in the English language.”
This bill appears to singling out one particular subset of private schooled children for registration. Mere registration (assuming ALL private schooled children are inlcuded, not just homeschooled children) probably is not an onerous requirement if there is a demonstrated public policy need for the registration. But experience in other State’s suggests that registration is just the start down a slippery slope to even more regulation. And, in my opinion, parents have a right to be worried. State and local bureaucrats aren’t always the greatest jude of what’s in the best interest of a child. Do you really want the local kindergarten teacher deciding you’re a bad parent because your education philosphy is different from hers?
I’d feel better about the bill if the sponser could more clearly articulate why he thinks homeschoolers in Illinois are a problem. By and large, most homeschooled children probably are not social misfits who can’t read or write. Some parents may claim to homeschool and pay no attention to their children’s education, ignore them, plop them down in front of the TV all day, never interact with them, and/or otherwise neglect and abuse the children. But those parents probably wouldn’t care about their kids’ education and otherwise neglect the kids if the kids were in public school.
Comment by Crafty Girl Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 11:46 am
While Fran wrote the article cited above and many homeschool families are “conservative”, as this Tribune article shows: http://bit.ly/eIudme homeschoolers are not a homogenous, righ-wing group, but represent a variety of ideological perspectives.
Comment by Joe D. Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 11:48 am
I assumed you had to register if you were home-schooling your kids. The law requires kids go to school. If they’re not registered in schools, how would you know that they are being home-schooled, and not just truant.
My neighbors home-school their kids and are doing a swell job, as far as I can tell.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 11:48 am
“.superintendents tell me they have no way of knowing whether a home-taught student is truant or not.” The quote seems odd…why would someone feel responsible for someone whom he/she is not responsible? The family has opted out of public schooling, so they do not need to be accounted for.
Comment by RightGirl Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 11:53 am
If the homeschoolers were expecting the state to fork over some of the taxes collected to pay for schooling then I could see a clear reason why the state would want to make sure the students are getting the proper education. Since the homeschoolers receive NONE of the collected taxes, how does the state justify their desire to demand accountability?
Comment by dupage dan Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 11:53 am
-the state has made many attempts to engage in what appears to be innocent acts but have been revealed to be nothing more than an attempt to stifle home schooling.- THEY HAVE? WHEN?
-All over the country, not just in Illinois. There is too much history and I won’t get into it. I just know I have seen it in the past.- WHERE ELSE? ALSO, WHEN?
-Call me overly suspicious- NO NAME CALLING FROM ME JUST PLEASE PROVIDE SOME SUBSTANCE
-There is NO evidence that homeschooled kids are falling behind academically, either.- WITHOUT DATA THERE IS NO EVIDENCE PERIOD, HENCE THE BILL BEING PROPOSED
The question was not is homeschooling better, it was should they register? Yes the data could effect how education funds are distributed throughout the state.
Comment by anonie Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 12:03 pm
I have a question. If you agree with registration and basic education testing for homeschooled children, what do you do if the parents don’t register or the kids don’t pass the tests?
Do you incarcerate the parents? Take the kids away if they can’t pass the test? Force them into your schools? What happens if a great home school parent just has a dumb kid?
This isn’t some innocent law. If you pass requirements, then there has to be consequences for not meeting the requirements.
In a public school, you fail the kid or discipline and unruly one-but in home schooling you would have to go after the parent, right?
Comment by Phineas J. Whoopee Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 12:10 pm
Register them and have them take periodic tests to asses.
At the same time, abolish tenure for teachers and put them on a performance based retention system. After all, assuring quality education should not just be targeted at home schooled kids, but all kids.
Comment by Ghost Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 12:13 pm
“I assumed you had to register if you were homeschooling your kids”
You CAN, but currently the law does not require you to.
When we homeschooled we knew some families that lived in areas where the regional superintendent was supportive of (or at least had no desire to interfere with) homeschooling. In these cases, they would touch base with him or her every year as a courtesy, so there would be no confusion about whether their children were truant or not. Others, however, had ROEs who were hostile toward homeschoolers and in those cases homeschool families preferred to just stay under the radar.
As for other private schools: SBE has for many years had a voluntary registration/recognition program for such schools. Although it is not mandatory, most non-public schools do participate in it.
Comment by Secret Square Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 12:13 pm
No, homeschoolers shouldn’t have to register. Homeschoolers shouldn’t have to waste time conforming to a failed bureaucratic model. Public education doesn’t work for many communities, it’s too expensive. Here’s a glimpse of the future, the amazing Khan Academy which many homeschoolers use.
http://www.khanacademy.org/
Comment by Steve Bartin Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 12:15 pm
== -There is NO evidence that homeschooled kids are falling behind academically, either.- WITHOUT DATA THERE IS NO EVIDENCE PERIOD, HENCE THE BILL BEING PROPOSED ==
The bill as proposed says nothing about any ‘data’ it just wants names.
Comment by OneMan Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 12:16 pm
SS, that’s good stuff, thanks.
DD, everyone pays for community schools, even folks without kids and those who send their kids to private schools. Just because you choose to home school your kids doesn’t mean you can opt out of the responsibility of providing community schools or are deserving of some handout.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 12:19 pm
No. If minimum standards are the issue, many of our public schools sadly, don’t meet those standards.
This is not the time to enact legislation that will use State resources in what is essentially an individual’s right and issue. A big fat no…
Comment by Loop Lady Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 12:20 pm
anonie,
I had decided not to write the history of home schooling difficulties due to the enormous space and time it would take. I provided a link to the NCACS organization in an earlier post. The history is long and tortuous, and ultimately would take too long for my to type in. Please feel free to do your own research. I have and am satisfied.
Word, I didn’t intend for my post to indicate a desire on the part of home schoolers to avoid paying the taxes that are used to support public education. No home schooler I have ever encountered ever said they would think about that. The home schoolers I know wish to privately handle the education of their children. They neither wish for state support (and the regulations/requirments that would come with it) nor do they wish to avoid paying their share of taxes that support public education. Nothing in what I wrote suggested that.
Comment by dupage dan Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 12:30 pm
====Register them and have them take periodic tests to asses.===
This. Literally, and not as presumably intended.
Comment by Birdseed Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 12:31 pm
Home schooling mae me the typist I am todya…
Comment by Ghost Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 12:32 pm
This drive by comment by Ghost is really helpful to the conversation.
Comment by dupage dan Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 12:34 pm
“If they are not registered in schools, how would you know they are not just truant”
It’s my impression (correct me if I’m wrong) that ROEs go out looking for truant kids on a complaint basis — a public school reports that they have been AWOL for a suspiciously long time, or a concerned/nosy relative, friend or neighbor reports that a child isn’t in school when they should be.
I suspect — and those who know better feel free to correct me — that the ROEs who bother homeschoolers the most may be in small-town and rural areas where they DON’T have their hands full tracking down actual truants. In areas where genuine truancy is a problem, the ROE has enough to worry about without going after homeschoolers.
Comment by Secret Square Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 12:35 pm
Senator John Maitland passed a bill to require home schoolers to register with the state 20 years ago. He caught so much flak from home schoolers that he passed a bill to repeal it the next year.
Comment by Tom Joad Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 12:35 pm
I educate my seriously ill/physically handicapped child at home. At the time I withdrew the child from school (sixth grade), I provided written explanation of my intent to the child’s school so they would know truancy was not an issue. I haven’t heard a word from them since, and I doubt I ever will. I don’t see why they should need anything further from me.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 12:49 pm
When I see “Regional Superintendents Of Schools” involved in this proposed process, I immediately get extremely dubious. Having seem way too much time and money wasted by those folks in their undying pursuit of more and more bureaucracy, I’m totally against this proposal.
The intent of the proposed legislation might be laudable, the application and execution of the legislation (if enacted) will be lamentable.
Imagine the careful application of all the efficiencies of the Cook County Regional Superintendent Of Schools into the home schooling environment.
Comment by Judgment Day Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 12:55 pm
In an ideal world, I could see the merits of this bill. Looking at the recent history of educational legislation, however, two developments stand out. First, there are constantly upgraded efforts to monitor student and teacher competency using standardized measures. Second, there is a systematic campaign to discredit public education in favor of charter schools.
The two developments are linked. The business and political leaders (Bill Gates, Rahm Emanuel et al.) who push for charter schools use the results of standardized test scores as ammunition for their agenda. The result is a progressive weakening of our public school system that, for all its failings, was a shining pride of America.
Admittedly, increased regulation of home schooling is a separate issue, but if enacted it will further the trend of increased educational standardization leading to privatization. For that reason we should be opposed.
Comment by Quiet Sage Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 12:59 pm
I’ve blogged about this extensively. My four kids at home are homeschooled.
This is a bill not intended to fix any problem than this: there’s something the state doesn’t control.
I am not responsible to the state for my children’s education. Rather, the state is responsible to parents for the education of the children entrusted to it — a responsibility it is failing miserably at, in my view.
This bill is intended to fix no real problem, and would not benefit my children or any others. It’s a Bad Bill. Let them put that time and expense into fixing public schools.
Comment by Paul, Just This Guy, You Know? Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 1:09 pm
It’s not worth the fight. Illinois has much larger problems that require focus and resouces.
Comment by Louis Howe Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 1:12 pm
Quiet Sage,
I’m not sure what you mean. Charter schools are public schools. They just try to adopt better methods of educating children than the “shining pride of America” which has failed many, many communities.
Don’t all public schools already use standardized testing? How do fault leaders for trying to improve the public schools?
Comment by Phineas J. Whoopee Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 1:14 pm
From my Senator’s Facebook posting:
=== Kyle McCarter.com, State Senator, 51st District of IL BJ, Think about 1) what kind of parents homeschool and why and 2) where the parents who don’t care if their kids get an education send their kids. Parents who don’t care are looking for a babysitter and the public schools are the best affordable choice. Sunday at 12:13am · ===
Apparently you do not care about your children if you do not home school according to Kyle McCarter.
Comment by Highland, IL Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 1:21 pm
If I had data of the educational careers beyond standard high school and have it show the percentage of “home schooled” children that not only completed a GED, but went on to a 2 or 4-year institution, then I would be able to decide if the senator’s arguement has merit.
However,
I have yet to find a child that has been “home schooled” that I could consider a drop-out, a truant, or disciple problem, that actually HAD parents “home school” them.
Extremely small sample, which is why I want to see some data showing how bad it is ….or for that matter, how well they are doing …
Only fair to make a smart decision …
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 1:25 pm
PJW-What happens if a great home school parent just has a dumb kid? I know this is serious, still that phrase made me LOL. You can’t fix stupid. No they should not have to register. I know of only one child out of many home schooled kids that turned out badly and he was going to be bad where ever he was.
Comment by wizard Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 1:25 pm
The dilemma here is how do you regulate home schooling and set benchmarks that they must meet to be able continue to home school, when public schools are not meeting those benchmarks.
Before the State can place one more regulation on public schools they have to fund them. No funding. No regulations. Then once they fund them they have to make a true effort to raise the standards of those graduating each grade so they meet the recommended benchmarks for that grade. No excuses allowed for failure of the teaching system.
Then and only then can they start to make sure the home schooled meet those same benchmarks. If the home schooled don’t meet the benchmarks then the State is not obligated to offer remediation to that child if they choose to re-enter the public system.
Comment by Irish Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 1:26 pm
Phineas J. Whoopee:
Standardized testing is being intensified to now include teachers. Teachers are being measured based on how their students perform. There is a gross element of unfairness in this, in that even the best teachers may be placed in a classroom of students confronting such difficult challenges outside the classroom (poverty and disfunctional family and social situations) that they will not register great improvement by standardized measures, no matter how superior the teacher may be. You have to remember that educational testing has become big business, and as big business it is constantly looking for new avenues to expand.
Charter schools are public-private hybrids. Their growth has directly taken away support (financial and moral) from public schools. The support for charters is mostly ideological. There is no solid evidence I am aware of that they do a better job on the whole, and in fact many charter schools have been documented disasters.
Furthermore, the trend toward privatization will probably not stop with charter schools. Expect a major push in the near future for full privatization of elementary and secondary education, with parents subsidized, partially but not fully, for the cost. This has been an item on the agenda of conservatives for years. Wealthy parents will be able to pay for the best and most expensive private schools (as they can now), but poorer parents will have to settle for an inferior product. Unlike now, they will not be able to register their complaints with public school boards.
We are in the process of undoing the edifice of American public education built up since before the Civil War. And yes, despite public education’s failure, I consider it better than the alternative.
Comment by Quiet Sage Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 1:32 pm
Further …
If you “home school” and your 16 year-old can pass to get a GED, and take the SAT or ACT and advance to a college … where does the state get off telling families THEY need to be regulated when society still can’t get kids to get a HS diploma?
“You did a horrible job home-schooling, even though your 16 year-old passed the GED and is advancing in education and we have a 25% dropout rate in District ‘X’, so we, the local and state governments MUST oversee you, because you may be failing your 16 year-old, college entry child …”
Pathetic.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 1:33 pm
SS @ 12:13 is correct from my experience. A lot of the interaction or lack thereof between homeschoolers and public school systems is dictated by the Regional Supt of Schools AND the Superintendents of the local school districts. The District for which I used to be a board member was very proactive with home schoolers. Even though everyone recognizes that a student in a seat in a public school means more state aid and therefore preferred you still have to do what’s best for the child. Our Superintendents would stay in touch with the home school parents and offer assistance if asked for. This line of communication kept the Superintendent in the loop so to speak on the kids progress.
Comment by Irish Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 1:36 pm
Just thought about this after posting twice ….
Isn’t the GED test THE standard as acceptable for someone who did not finish at a traditional HS?
So …
If you pass the GED, no matter who you are, how you learned it, or what age you took it and passed, considered a HS graduate?
No matter what is taught, you pass that GED, then you pass …more I am thinking about this, its getting ridiculous … how about going for real truants… not a family that is taking upon themselves to do what they think is best for their children, provided they are GED awardees.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 1:39 pm
Illinois is a liberal state and it has some of the most lax home school laws. This should not be a right left issue, but a procedure issue. Many children fall through the cracks.
Many delinquent parents can avoid fines with truant children by saying that they home school their kids now. This loophole in the law allows many kids to be lost in the system.
Also, why do home school parents object to their child being tested each year to show improvement. Studies have shown that many home school students test better, however each home school parent in allow is against.
Home school parents should be flexible, which might allow them to use other public resources.
Comment by Freight Train Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 1:39 pm
Pretty obvious most commenters don’t want the current law that requires school attendance for those 7 - 17. Why don’t they just say so?
Comment by wordonthestreet Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 1:42 pm
I am conservative, but I also see an upcoming problem with delinquent parents using the law to avoid penalties and short changing their children.
The law need to be examined better and both side working towards a solution.
I understand parents fear of the government becoming Orwellian with the education of their children. However, they should also be curious to see how their children progress.
Comment by Freight Train Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 1:47 pm
“Many delinquent parents can avoid fines with truant children by saying that they home school their kids now. This loophole in the law allows many kids to be lost in the system.”
Gimme a break, that is ludicrous. If the parents are that delinquent, the least of their problems are truancy fines.
Comment by Phineas J. Whoopee Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 1:48 pm
===Pretty obvious most commenters don’t want the current law that requires school attendance for those 7 - 17. Why don’t they just say so?===
I don’t want this law as proposed …Something can be written that is more thoughtful to the issue, and focuses on the issues of education, and base it on some facts that can prove WHY it’s needed, not just regulation for its onw sake.
ok?
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 1:52 pm
It would help if people actually read SB 136. First off the bill clearly states “all children attending non-public elementary or secondary schools in this State must annually register their children with the State Board of Education.” So it is not a bill exclusive to home schooled students.
Second the big problem, the bill provides ISBE no funds to implement the mandate or to enforce it. ISBE effectively can set up an on line registration system, but it has no staff to verify if these children are actually in the private schools their parents claim they are attending, let alone whether individual home schooled students are being educated. I am opposed to the General Assembly placing any additional burdens on ISBE without additional money. That agency has been cut and cut yet again.
I hope a fiscal note is filed against the bill.
Comment by Rod Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 1:53 pm
-the state has made many attempts to engage in what appears to be innocent acts but have been revealed to be nothing more than an attempt to stifle home schooling.- THEY HAVE? WHEN?
2002. Google the below, and you’ll find lots of links.
Bruce Dennison, regional superintendent of schools in Bureau, Stark, and Henry counties in Northeastern Illinois, has contacted more than 22 families, insisting that they need his approval to conduct education at home.
Comment by Pat Collins Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 1:54 pm
Examine it yourself, delinquent parents can do this.
Comment by Freight Train Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 1:58 pm
Our overall level of education i falling behind china, India and Japan.
We will not stay at the top of the pile long if we do not focus on our lackluster school system and low standards all around. The proficinecies we require to pass kids along are low, and we keep lowering the bar.
Any pickup related to homschooling needs to address the whole educational system and propose better standards.
We cant keep making school easier as a solution to kids not learning, or abandoning kids who cant keep up with the curriculum on their own (why do we have teachers again?) Home schooling when it is functioning is a model of a teahcer working with students and providing them individulized attention, with foucs on areas where they struggle. This would be a good model for our public schools….
Comment by Ghost Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 2:00 pm
This bill, or any bill, will not force delinquent kids whose parents do not care, to be anything but delinquent …
Sad, cynical, but in most cases, … true.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 2:01 pm
I am finding that both side cannot can not come to reasonable compromise on this issue. It has become another issue that any politician does not want to touch. Both sides fear any good legislation that could be worked out by both sides
Comment by Freight Train Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 2:05 pm
Mr Collins,
Thank you for your post. This is the kind of thing that homeschoolers report frequently. Whether it is at the local, district, level or state wide, there are documented incidents of this kind of over reaching state control in home schooling. Google is a wonderful thing. Anyone wanting to know the history of the challenges, beaurocratic or otherwise, that face home schoolers can easily find this out, if they care to.
Comment by dupage dan Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 2:05 pm
Just glancing at SB 136, the language seems to pertain to requiring parents of all children attending non-public elementary and secondary schools to register. I didn’t see specific wording for “home-schools”; legally do they meet the definition of a “non-public school”?
In answer to your question Rich- I am presently home-schooling our younger son who has an immune deficiency and would not have a problem with registering. However, I would need to see more specific language regarding the standardized testing requirement before I would support it. My understanding is that we must be in line with IL education standards.
Comment by Laura Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 2:06 pm
===State Senator Maloney is, of course, a former school teacher/administrator — albeit from a parochial school.===
Actually I believe Maloney spent most of his career at a public high school and then was an administrator at a parochial school after retiring.
Comment by Been There Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 2:09 pm
States have a legitimate interest to protect all their citizens, including minors. Children aren’t the property of parents, but are citizens of this state.
Thus, the state of Illinois should make sure that the education of all children is occurring. Homeschooling can be fine and is preferable in some circumstances, but the risk of abuse is so great that registration is a fine idea.
Comment by David Aubrey Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 2:11 pm
“I didn’t see specific wording for “home-schools”; legally do they meet the definition of a “non-public school”?
Yes, they do. The court case that established the right to homeschool in Illinois ruled that parents teaching their children at home constituted non-public schooling.
Comment by Secret Square Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 2:23 pm
He says they want more accountability? Has he been in a public school recently?
Comment by Champaign Dweller Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 2:37 pm
The current ISBE rules for voluntary nonpublic school registration (23 Ill. Adm. Code 425) require participating schools to report data on students enrolled by race, ethnicity, and grade level. It does not, from what I can see, require that student names or class rosters be reported. So this bill would also impose a new mandate upon parochial and private schools as well, not just homeschoolers.
Comment by Secret Square Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 2:39 pm
The problem, Mr Train, is that the state doesn’t approach this thing with the desire to find common ground. The state approaches this thing with an agenda, frequently linked to power structures like the teachers unions which drives the legislation. As long as that happens in the home school arena you will see the same response. The homeschoolers have been thru this many times over the years. Longer than the 30 years I have been involved, in one way or the other, with the home schooling movement.
Comment by dupage dan Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 2:40 pm
Mr Aubrey,
A previous poster indicated there may be as many as 60K home schooled children in this state. Compare that to the millions of children attending public schools in this state. The state does a poor job of ensuring that those millions are receiving a proper education as evidenced by their own test scores when compared to other states/countries. And the state is paying for some of that. BTW, who, in your opinion, should decide what circumstances home schooling would be appropriate? The state?
Comment by dupage dan Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 2:47 pm
So I’ma bad parent, my kid is always late or not in school, School calls local truancy officer and says child not going to school. Parent pulls kid and says I’m homeschooling. State says, ok can’t do anything. Child continues down path without an education or future. This isn’t about the paranoid home-schoolers. Its about the parents that do nothing about their children’s education and figured out how to do even less. I would venture a guess that most public education people are happy not to have home-schoolers in there schools. This is about the parent that does nothing.
Comment by frustrated GOP Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 2:49 pm
right on
Comment by Freight Train Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 2:51 pm
NO! If it was good enough for Abe Lincoln, its good enough for me!
I homeschooled my son back in the 1980’s and early 1990’s before it became popular and trendy. My entire family opposed me. It was HARD work. I went above and beyond. Illinois required a certain number of subjects and that they be in the english language. Simple law, easy to follow. I taught him three extra subjects daily. You can do so much when you have only one student.
My son was taught well. He learned more with me than ever. I was NOT easy on him! I had to do lesson plans, and spent much time in libraries and much money doing my best.
He was placed back into public school in 7th grade. They tested him, and decided he should move a year ahead to 8th grade. He graduated a year early with NUMEROUS honors. He was the favorite student of many of his high school teachers. They were impressed by his knowledge.
He is now a 30 year old, married father who owns his own construction business. Frankly, his abilities went down in public school, not up. I still keep the papers to compare his work during his time with me as his teacher to his work in high school with an overwhelmed teacher. Public school teachers are forced to spend too much time dealing with other students and their parents behavior problems and federal and state mandates. This keeps them from doing their best.
I wanted to do my best. It was in my son’s best interest and ours to do my very best. I believe I did. I am thankful I had the freedom to do so.
Keep the government OUT of home-schooling.
Comment by Say WHAT? Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 3:13 pm
So you find those parents that do not send their kids to school, and then what? Lock up the parents? You do recall we released prisoners at one point due to overcrowding ….you fine the parents, which could be poor, don’t care, or just plain ignore the courts … so now what?
This bill is not very thought out … the good senator already said this is not against parochial schools … so where are these “investigators”(and who is going to track down these ‘ruffians’?) going to spend most of thier time? Urban Chiago? Really? And are you going to get cops off the streets? Gotta inforce this! What if there are more “investigators in the collar counties and downstate, and Chicago truancy increases, just by happenstance? Are those investigators in Cairo going to lower the caseload so the suburban “investigators” can go in the city?
Difficult to believe, but this might be a BAD thing? What are you regulating? What are the penalties? Do you think absent parents are going to magically care, because you are not going after home-schoolers, who do care?
Pathetic …Buerocratic … Nonsense
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 3:15 pm
Checking progress seems completely reasonable.
I do think testing homeschool children on government propaganda (history and social studies) is dubious. But testing on reading, writing and mathematics makes sense.
The public has an interest in assuring that the citizenry gets a basic education. Homeschooling represents itself as a viable alternative to *mandatory* public education. Testing seems like a reasonable way to ensure it’s not dysfunctional families keeping their kids home and calling it “homeschooling”.
If the teachers unions are pushing this they’re dumb. The tests are going to show that homeschool students outperform public school students in many cases.
Comment by Carl Nyberg Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 3:23 pm
I can’t help but think that with the state budget the way it currently is, and our legislator’s propensity to recall the idea “The boss is watching let’s look busy!” - this is quite well timed.
Has our Dear Public Servant bothered to check the stats on how many colleges actively recruit home schooled students - in or outside of our state? Have ANY of them? Have home-schooling organizations or parents who are home-schooling their children been consulted at all?
NO. No public input has been requested at all. This is a bill that didn’t even deserve a first reading, and it sits in the assignments committee awaiting introduction on the floor.
Obviously Mr. Maloney is not aware of the many curriculum options parents have available to them, either. Yet - surely he believes that a government that cannot (will not?!) regulate itself should regulate any and everything outside of itself so that it can to “look busy” as well.
Next we will hear that this will be in the appropriations committee in order to determine just how much extra funding will be required of parents in order to comply. Licenses? Fees? Fines?
Certainly the nearly bankrupt state government that just raised our taxes and tried their dernedest to create a few more for good measure can wring out a few more dollars from the people that still reside here…
It wasn’t bad enough they drove most of the good doctors out of the state a few years ago, now they want families to follow!
Since there are still PUBLIC schools in this state that cannot meet state regulations, why attack home-schools now? Hmmmm….
Remember - Indiana started out with a seemingly innocent “registration” law, and now they are one of the most restrictive, most expensive and most difficult states in the Union to home-school in - AND - they require DCFS to be involved - which means parents are “in the registry” for that, too.
Yup - that’s just what we want - another “law.”
NOT!
We need two things. Legislators that do their own homework before introducing new bills to change or create new laws in this state - and a government with better things to do than merely “look busy” for the sake of looking busy.
OK 3… we need a citizen committee to review the homework and make sure it passes state standards…
Comment by GrannySue Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 3:36 pm
IF … IF …If I were a conservative meember of the IL House or IL Senate, I would add an amendment stating any teacher (let’s say 10th Grade English) and the student body at the school for that grade fails to meet the minimum standards for the state at the rate of the New Trier School District, those teachers teaching that subject would be terminated, no questions asked.
They are not meeting the BEST standards for the students attending, so why should they be allowed to teach?
Oh yeah .. the teachers union wants that “tenure” thing, regardless of how ell the students do, or how well they teach … but …
Parents who are home-schooling need to be regulated and have education enforced at what the state says … or … or … or what are they going to do again? … nothing, they want buerocracy and “registering” because, by goodness, gracious, the ISBE is going to go into Warrenville …and in Englewood in Chicago? …yeah, that ain’t going to happen.
Not well thought out … but do NOT ask teachers to be accountable to be the BEST … but let’s regulate them home-schoolers!
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 3:37 pm
You cannot legislate good parenting. If a parent is capable of using homeschooling as an excuse to not provide an education for their children-do you really think registration is going to fix anything.
I would submit a parent or parents willing to sacrifice their children’s education have so many other problems like drug & alcohol abuse, mental illness, extreme poverty, incarceration and abuse issues that truancy issues are the least of their or their children’s concerns. Situations like this tend to get addressed through other agencies or family members.
The right to screw up your children should not be usurped by the States desire to do the same. I’ll put my trust in a parents love over a State bureaucracy almost every time. I’ll be right a lot more than wrong.
Comment by Phineas J. Whoopee Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 3:50 pm
Absolutely–otherwise, there could be all SORTS of mularkey out there passing as so-called “education.” If not ever watched over and occasionally monitored, many homeschoolers could end-up wreaking a whole lot of havoc rather than well- and properly educated “students.” This issue as to the almighty “homeschooling” approch with children in Illinois (and elsewhere) has concerned me for quite awhile now. You all remember one of President Reagan’s most famous (and wisest, I think) quotes: “Trust…but VERify.”!!! That old adage most certainly should apply as to this (no pun intended) “subject.”
Comment by Just The Way It Is One Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 4:07 pm
===Absolutely–otherwise, there could be all SORTS of mularkey out there passing as so-called “education.”===
So ….. If the Home School studets pass the GED, then the GED is Mularkey?
The goal is to get the kids to pass the tests needed to move on in teir education, but do it the parent’s way, without involving the schoold which they are not wanting to be a part of ….
What we need to do is go after the home-schoolers, because all school districts here in IL are NOT failing, the parents who are taking an interest in their kids future, so much so they are teaching them at home, they … they are ruining the IL school system.
Good luck with that …
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 4:13 pm
You tell ‘em GrannySue. Sounds like you have some knowledge about this subject. Didn’t know Indiana was that involved but it does make home school folk leery when someone says “it’s just an innocent registration process”. I’m sure the home school advocates will be all over this.
I’ll say it again, if the state wants to regulate home schooling, they better be willing to fund it, too. However, I bet NOT ONE home schooler would take them up on it, tho.
Comment by dupage dan Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 4:16 pm
These are the graduation requirements for every child required by law to attend public schools.
4 years of language arts;
2 years of writing-intensive courses, one year of which must be offered as an English language arts course and may be counted toward meeting one year of the four-year English language arts requirement. The writing courses may be counted toward the fulfillment of other state graduation requirements, when applicable, if writing-intensive content is provided in a subject area other than English language arts;
3 years of mathematics, one of which must be Algebra 1 and one of which must include geometry content;
2 years of science;
2 years of social studies, of which at least one year must be the history of the United States or a combination of the history of the United States and American government; and
1 year chosen from any of the following:
art; music; foreign language, which shall include American Sign Language; and vocational education.
While those home schooled can more or less be taught whatever their parents deem necessary?
Quit attacking the public school system and make sure home schooled children are receiving the same subject matter the public school students must have by law.
Comment by Wensicia Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 4:42 pm
Keep your eye on the ball, folks. The real issue here is not concern about truancy, or a concern for the well being of the children. After all, are we to believe that the State and it’s bureaucrats, I mean agents, are more concerned about the children than the child’s parents?
Concern for “the children”? Are you kidding? The real issue here is funding. School districts reap big funding based on head counts. The more popular home schooling becomes, the more lost revenue to the school districts from state and federal sources.
It’s about money, plain and simple. Why else would a bankrupt state and strapped school districts want this authority? They don’t have money to carry out the authority they already have.
This legislation is a move to ascertain how much more money school districts can get if they can entice or force the home schoolers into the public school system. If there are huge numbers, look for the state to tighten up so that it can try to get money into their coffers for the home school students.
Comment by Rail Rider Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 4:44 pm
This is a wedge for the state to eventually eliminate home schooling altogether. If they can force parents to register, they can then start to enact additional regulations on curriculum, hours, facilities and other aspects of the home schooling experience that will eventually drive the cost of compliance so high that parents will be forced to send their kids to public school, or move out of the state. Yet more government intrusion in parental decisions. Just say no!
Comment by Bluejay Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 4:47 pm
–I’ll say it again, if the state wants to regulate home schooling, they better be willing to fund it, too.–
I still don’t get that. Funding for what? There are public schools. If you opt out, why should you get money?
In all honesty, I just assumed that you had to notify someone, somewhere that your kids were enrolled in private schools or home schooled, simply because of state law that kids have to be in school between certain ages.
Is that so onerous? Not everything is a slippery slope.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 4:52 pm
= make sure home schooled children are receiving the same subject matter the public school students must have by law=
Wensicia,
I doubt anyone who takes the time necessary to home school their child would willingly lower their standards to meet those of the state.
Comment by dupage dan Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 4:54 pm
So, if I’m getting this right, the simple act of registering home school students is really the first step in a sinister plot to end homeschooling so the educrats can get more money to pad their sweet pensions?
I hear Maloney is looking at introducing a bill to register firearms next. For that QOTD, we can just use the same comments here and insert “guns” where “homeschooling” now appears.
It’s really the same argument.
Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 4:57 pm
Word,
I was being sarcastic in that comment. You should read some of the more recent comments regarding the whole slippery slope thing. Something about Indiana starting off with a simple registration and ending up with something more onerous. This is what concerns many homeschoolers. Why can’t you accept the fact that they have legitimate concerns? Based on history that you seem to not be aware of.
Do you think the senator had spoken to any home schoolers about this? Has he done any research into the matter? Why bring something up at this time at all? What prompted him to do this? Is there some glaring problem with home schooled children running wild in the streets? Scaring the seniors and stealing apples? Oh, Prunella!
Comment by dupage dan Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 5:01 pm
47th, does the state or fed hand out dollars based on the number of guns in a jurisdiction? No. But they do for students.
And only a fool would think this would not lead to further regulation. Remember the arguments used to sell the seat belt law? We would *never* get pulled or fined for not wearing a seat belt, right?
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice…
Comment by Rail Rider Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 5:02 pm
===These are the graduation requirements for every child required by law to attend public schools.===
Do you think a GED exam will not cover the mastery of the criteria you described?
Further, if a GED doesn’t/did’nt, don’t you think educators would just get kids who may NOT meet that criteria to take a test that would not test their mastery?
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 5:04 pm
RR, my point was that the same paranoia, slippery-slopes, red herrings and strawmen evident in the comments here could seemlessly apply to gun registration.
Dan, do you think it’s reasonable for policy makers to want data on the academic progress of all students in Illinois? Or is data on 98% enough? I think the data would show that homeschooled students do better than those who attend traditional schools, but if you have your way, we’ll never know for sure, will we?
Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 5:06 pm
Whew! Talk about touching a nerve.
This “issue” is really a few other issues wrapped into one big ball of controversy. I’d say religion and Tea Party politics.
All my kids went to public school. I’ll front that. I’ve known five families who home schooled their children. The kids were all bright but somewhat socially inept. I don’t mean to be nasty but that’s the truth.
All of the families were very conservative and very religious. Two were Roman Catholic and the other three were evangelical. They were and are all Tea Partiers or lean heavily to the Right. So, this issue, unfortunately, in my opinion, has religion and party affiliation mixed in with it.
Fox News will be picking up on this soon!
Comment by One hot topic Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 5:08 pm
Sorry, I didn’t answer the question/ Yes, I think they should be registered and required to meet certain standards. The Home School crowd will claim this is an infrigement on their rights or a plot by educators to stop them or the teacher’s unions to shut them down. That’s all hogwash. There need’s to be standards.
Comment by One hot topic Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 5:12 pm
===Quit attacking the public school system and make sure home schooled children are receiving the same subject matter the public school students must have by law.===
I am sure those “ignorant” home schoolers are being blown away by any number of CPS teachers who are ensuring every day that CPS is the “Beacon of Education” it has proven itself to be.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 5:12 pm
Yes. For all those who want to rid the public schools of bad teachers, they should be equally concerned (or more concerned) about bad home-school parent-teachers. However, I’ll go further and comment that since there are other life-skills that are learned by taking that first big stepo into the world by going to school, I think home schooling should be limited to cases wher there is a compelling NEED to home school a child. It seems odd to have social reasons to try to mainstream students with disabilities while simultaneously ignoring those same reasons for “mainstreaming” those who would otherwise be isolated in home schooling.
Comment by JustaJoe Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 5:24 pm
“The kids were all bright but somewhat socially inept”
But those children might be socially inept in any case. That’s really not a very good argument against homeschooling–the most socially inept person I know is a proud graduate of the public schools in this State. Obviously all that “socialization” didn’t help much.
Comment by Crafty Girl Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 6:08 pm
–”The kids were all bright but somewhat socially inept”–
Says you. Cheap shot that does not advance the debate.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 6:11 pm
–”The kids were all bright but somewhat socially inept”–
Why is that a cheap shot. It’s the truth based on my experiences with home schooled kids. I’m sure they’re plenty of home schooled kids aren’t there who aren’t socially inempt.
Howeverm how does that not advance the debate? The reason these kids were/are socially inempt is because all that they know and deal with on a day by day basis exists in the world their parents created and controlled.
These kids aren’t exposed to the real world. Their parents think they’re protecting them from all the evil influences out there. In my opinionm it’s an unrealistic and ultimately unhealthy choice.
Comment by One hot topic Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 7:35 pm
===These kids aren’t exposed to the real world. Their parents think they’re protecting them from all the evil influences out there. In my opinionm it’s an unrealistic and ultimately unhealthy choice.===
Nothing like lumping all kids together, and stereotyping … is THIS advancing the subject?
Try speaking of what you know is factual if you feel the need to lump ALL in such a frivilous observation based on nothing to lump ALL in it!
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 8:02 pm
As we moved around the country, our kids attended different schools in different states. The value of education was pushed hard at home. They always did well and we were always involved. Now they have good jobs they enjoy and are finishing grad schools with far better grades than I ever got. What they got from their varied school experience was the ability to move into any environment/culture and work with people from any background. There are great and terrible teachers everywhere regardless of location. Some home schoolers are motivated for the cause and go all out with outstanding results. Others can barely understand lessons on Faulkner or basic chemistry. I have met the same school teachers. I have also met plenty of parents who could care less what their kids actually did as long as they were out of their hair. There no easy answer to this. Home schools can be a great option but it can also limit experiences. Regular schools can also be very good and the pits in the same building. Regulation is not some horrible evil and yes numbers do count in local districts. Just like any retail business. The bigger issue to me is, anecdotal stuff aside, are home schooled students consistently scoring better than regular schooled students on whatever measurement is used and from which path are the employers seeing better quality talent coming into the business world?
Comment by zatoichi Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 10:20 pm
Ghost, you told us ages ago that your creative typing style should be blamed…um, can be attributed to…your faulty keyboard. It’s OBVIOUSLY one or the other. Don’t make us all come to your house to investigate why.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 10:41 pm
That home educated children suffer from a lack of social skills is myth, as far as I can tell. How much quality interaction occurs at school in the course of a day? Very little. By junior high, children only interact for to 2 to 3 minutes at a time while elbowing their way to the next class and 20 minutes or so at lunch (likely an assigned seat). By the time they get on the bus to go home, they are too surly to do much but argue, insult, and bully each other. You can ask a school bus driver about that. Good socialization really comes down to playing in the neighborhood after school and on weekends and and participation in extracurricular activities. Most home educators are sensitive to these issues. When you see home educated children together, you typically see very good social skills and much better than average skill in interacting adults and children of other ages. At some of the home school group outings I have attended with my child, I have seen groups of dozens of kids of mixed ages organize all sorts their own games and activities without adult input–something their friends from school aren’t able to achieve. The older ones look out for the younger ones, and they welcome and engage new children smoothly. It is an amazing thing to witness really.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Feb 9, 11 @ 11:14 pm
I think they should register and get tested. The children have a right to an education. As someone with a Ph.D., I can’t imagine homeschooling my children all the way through. I would have great knowledge in some areas but none in others. Teaching is hard!!! And there is so much to learn. I am certainly not suggesting that all schools are great - far from it. But praise be that my parents never thought of homeschooling me - that would have been a nightmare. I would like to think that teachers get some education in pedagogy and early child hood development and newer research on neurobiology and the science of learning and that at a more advanced level, they actually have degrees in what they are teaching. Maybe that is wishful thinking but it is certainly the education I aspire to for my children.
Comment by west chi Thursday, Feb 10, 11 @ 11:26 am
OW-because all school districts here in IL are NOT failing-what an absurd comment–granted, some are not top-shelf but the clear majority of Illinois students are well-educated. You’re being too defensive and missing the point–we’re not attacking the homeschoolers, nor the home-schooled, we’re merely saying you all need to meet some educational standards like the rest of the schools and school childrenI’ve met and know THOUSANDS of Illinois public and private school educated Illinoisans who were, in fact, well-educated, and it’s also a fact that every school they attended had basic standards and regulations which needed to be met…why should all of the rest of Illinois citizens just ASSUME that somehow homeschoolers are so superior to our public and private school educators that NOBODY has the right to know who they are and what, even how they teach in order to pass that GED, which, by the way, is the bare minimum standard. Schools can, and do, on the whole offer so much more to children in terms of knowledge and a variety of experiences….
Comment by Just The Way It Is One Thursday, Feb 10, 11 @ 8:31 pm