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* From the SJ-R…
Springfield police ticketed an Auburn woman Monday for allegedly standing on the road trying to solicit work.
Laura A. Welch, 43, allegedly had a double-sided sign that read, “Mom of three, out of work” and “Out of work, hungry” on it. Police saw her about 2:10 p.m. at Dirksen Parkway and Stevenson Drive. They said they recognized her because they have talked to her numerous times before and told her not to solicit work in the roadway.
She had no permit, so she was ticketed.
* The Question: Should this be illegal? Explain, please.
posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Mar 9, 11 @ 11:46 am
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Only from a safety perspective. If she posed a safety threat and there is a law for that activity or against it, then that should be the determining factor.
Simply because it annoys people should not be the basis for ticketing. Not much different from ‘will work for food’. Perhaps it comes under a begging ordinance?
At least she is out trying to get help or work. I’ll give her kudos for that.
Comment by Justice Wednesday, Mar 9, 11 @ 11:58 am
I’ll get back to you. I’m still working on line 22 of my IL income tax return.
Comment by Kasich Walker, Jr. Wednesday, Mar 9, 11 @ 11:59 am
One might hope that there is better use of law enforcement than this.
I suspect if Ms. Welch could think of better alternatives or had more money, she probably wouldn’t be out there.
Comment by sal-says Wednesday, Mar 9, 11 @ 12:01 pm
Yes, standing in the middle of Dirksen and Stevenson soliciting motorists for anything is a traffic hazard. She was a danger to herself and the driving public.
I’ll include the Kiwanis, Lions, firefighters, newspaper sellers, etc., who stand in the road soliciting money. Traffic hazard, case closed. There are many, many safe ways for you to get your message out or conduct your business without putting live bodies in two-way traffic.
I’m sure the coppers didn’t want to ticket her and have probably referred her to the myriad social service agencies in Springfield many times.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Mar 9, 11 @ 12:04 pm
As heart wrenching as it may be, she is presenting a hazard to herself and others by standing on a roadway and should not be allowed to solicit work in that manner.
Comment by Plutocrat03 Wednesday, Mar 9, 11 @ 12:07 pm
No, shouldn’t arrest her. It’s pretty much what every politician does every election.
Comment by just sayin' Wednesday, Mar 9, 11 @ 12:07 pm
I agree with wordslinger and plutocrat03. My wife actually got into an accident when a panhandler distracted her as she was trying to turn.
I don’t like panhandler crackdowns, but soliciting money from drivers is dangerous.
Comment by whet moser Wednesday, Mar 9, 11 @ 12:10 pm
As long as she was off the roadway I say let her be. If she’s out in the street ticket her or run her over.
Comment by Tom Smith Wednesday, Mar 9, 11 @ 12:15 pm
Agree with Wordslinger. No one should be in the middle of the roadway except the maintenance workers and those that are there for a reason related to traffic, including (AND ESPECIALLY) politicians.
Comment by Ghost of John Brown Wednesday, Mar 9, 11 @ 12:22 pm
It is common to see human roadside advertising in Springfield for tax preparation, pizza, predatory loans…ect. If she was standing along the road with a sign, as I have observed others do, then I don’t believe she should have received a ticket. If she was “on the roadway,” which I have never seen in Springfield, except for Rotary and other clubs, then perhaps she needs a permit. People have a basic right to seek employment in a reasonable manner. Holding up a placard along a roadside should not require a permit.
Comment by Louis Howe Wednesday, Mar 9, 11 @ 12:23 pm
From reading the story, my assumption is that she was in the roadway. I don’t have a problem with someone up on the sidewalk (assuming there is one) exercising their 1st Amendment rights.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Mar 9, 11 @ 12:41 pm
NO, she should not have been ticketed! Can you imagine how hard it must be for her to beg for a job or money to feed her children? Until our government realizes that their inability to make decisions are hurting the poor, there will be more out of work mothers, mentally ill, senior citizens, physically and mentally disabled citizens looking for help along the roadside.
Comment by Jellybean Wednesday, Mar 9, 11 @ 12:45 pm
Ok, where was she: in the street, in the median, on the side of the road? Let’s get some facts. Besides, this sounds like something the make-believe cops in Jerome or Leland Grove would do if you were standing on their speed bump/faux closed road!
Comment by D.P. Gumby Wednesday, Mar 9, 11 @ 1:03 pm
Good thing the Springfield police have all the drug dealers and gang bangers in jail, now they can go after the real criminals!!!!
Comment by Greg Wednesday, Mar 9, 11 @ 1:05 pm
I would like to know more details about the ticket. What exactly was she ticketed for, and what was the reason.
Where can she stand legally to solicit work? On the sidewalk? Was this explained to her by the police officer? I would hope so, but I don’t know.
Comment by Mark Wednesday, Mar 9, 11 @ 1:08 pm
If this is illegal, then why don’t the State Police and CPS do the same with pan handlers at nearly every highway ramp in Chicago?
Every day, there are people with signs seeking donations at the Fullerton exit ramp from the Kennedy, the Irving Park Road exit and the Irving Park LSD exit. Either ticket all of them or none of them, but don’t pick and choose.
And for the record, no, I don’t think this should be illegal. It’s heartbreaking, and the safety issue is legitimate, but people are desperate. That’s where our focus ought to be.
Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Mar 9, 11 @ 1:10 pm
There are enough distractions on the road without having to monitor all the moving vehicles at a most crucial time - in an intersection. There is a very busy (4 lanes in both ways) one just outside my office and the people on foot w/”legitimate” to panhandling reasons present. To everyone here who says we should be sympathetic and allow such behavior I am sure you would be devestated to learn if one of those persons was killed by a motorist. It should be illegal for anybody to solicit while standing in the roadway.
Comment by dupage dan Wednesday, Mar 9, 11 @ 1:16 pm
I’ve seen her and others around town, and have never seen any of them in the roadway. They are up on the center median curb usually near a traffic light. It would seem that giving her a ticket (how much?) when she is already down on her luck was tacky. And, I agree with Word, stop turning a blind eye to the Kiwanis, Lions, firefighters, newspaper sellers, etc., who stand in intersections (in the road) soliciting money, but maybe they have a permit…
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Mar 9, 11 @ 1:22 pm
It should be illegal because of the aforementioned traffic hazards.
As far as the argument “. . . hard it must be for her to beg for a job or money to feed her children? ” is concerned, how do you know that she (a) has kids, (b) is actually out of work, (c) is actually hungry? She might be. But then she might also be a con artist, thief or addict. Or just greedy. Some communities require licenses for garage sales. That might seem silly until you see someone who’s been having a “garage sale” every day for the past 3 years. And one fact is clear from the article, this was not the first time she has done this.
Comment by What planet is he from again? Wednesday, Mar 9, 11 @ 1:34 pm
I’d like to see the citation, ie, which ordinance was supposedly violated. But even if there was no risk of injury involved, a state must be able to come up with better interventions than a citation.
Regarding the “DO NOT LEAVE BLANK” instructions for line 22 of the IL tax return, enough space has been provided for a tiny drawing.
Comment by Kasich Walker, Jr. Wednesday, Mar 9, 11 @ 1:38 pm
There is an intersection near me where signs are posted reading “NO SOLICITING AT INTERSECTION - IN VIOLATION OF” and an ILCS citation that is too small to read while driving. It may be this one:
(625 ILCS 5/11‑1416) (from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 11‑1416)
Sec. 11‑1416. Obstructing person in highways. No person shall wilfully and unnecessarily hinder, obstruct or delay, or wilfully and unnecessarily attempt to delay, hinder or obstruct any other person in lawfully driving or traveling along or upon any highway within this State or offer for barter or sale merchandise on said highway so as to interfere with the effective movement of traffic.
(Source: P.A. 80‑911.)
Comment by Tim Wednesday, Mar 9, 11 @ 2:18 pm
I thought it was so strange that I e-mailed the article to my sister in laws, this morning.
They felt that she had been informed of the law, numerous times and chose to ignore it.
I thought maybe it was because she might be be soliciting to do something illegal.
Comment by PPHS Wednesday, Mar 9, 11 @ 2:27 pm
Wait is this a state law, or a local ordinance saying no soliciting on the roadway without a permit? I guess police have no choice but to ticket her after multiple warnings. Why would she pay the ticket if she has no money?
Big question is, will she go back there and do it again.
Comment by Pickles!! Wednesday, Mar 9, 11 @ 2:29 pm
Hell no it should not be illegal. People in Illinois are struggling. If she is impeding traffic that is one thing, but otherwise leave her alone. It is not as if she wants to be out there with a sandwich board on.
Comment by John A Logan (formerly LiO) Wednesday, Mar 9, 11 @ 2:32 pm
where are her children and who is watching them while she is out there with the sign?
Comment by waitress practicing politics. . Wednesday, Mar 9, 11 @ 3:16 pm
Did I read that right?
Ticket a hungry mom looking for work?
You gotta be kidding me.
(So what if she was standing in the road. You STILL gotta be kidding me!)
Consider the saga of Joshua Persky, an unemployed investment banker from New York City.
In 2008, he paraded around wearing a sandwich board reading “Experienced M.I.T. grad for hire.” Ultimately, it worked: Persky got a job.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/04/business/04wall.html
The moral? In Gotham, Persky’s conduct was commendable. Endearing, even.
In Springpatch, it’s actionable. Even for a hungry mother with children.
Bad times. Bad times.
Let’s have some heart, people.
Perhaps a Springfield bank will set up a charitable account for her and her kids. I’m in with fifty bucks.
And perhaps an attorney will work pro bono to get the ticket dismissed.
(In short: NO, Welch’s conduct should not be deemed illegal.)
Comment by Dooley Dudright Wednesday, Mar 9, 11 @ 3:26 pm
I’ve seen Ms. Welch on nearly every major Dirkson intersection (Clear Lake, Sangamon, Stevenson)… she’s been at this for months. The onlything that’s been as persistant and just as much as a traffic safety issue are the political campaign signs. Let’s get real… we know what this is about. It’s an anti-panhandler law designed to “improve” a city’s image. patehtic.
Comment by Anon Wednesday, Mar 9, 11 @ 3:27 pm
Better hope it is not a jury trial offense. The cop will look goofy. Why not try to get her help through social services, a church , or some other do-gooder organization.
Comment by x ace Wednesday, Mar 9, 11 @ 3:35 pm
i hope someone sent her home with a bag full of groceries so she could feed her family……
Comment by dumb ol' country boy Wednesday, Mar 9, 11 @ 3:49 pm
No, it should not be illegal as long as she is off of the roadway itself. there does not need to be a sidewalk she can stand in the grass or whatever surface is just off the roadway.
If there is an ordinance then the ordinance MUST be applied equally to everyone. so if Ms Welch gets a ticket so does the Kiwanis, Lions, all politicians, and even the business that have those guys standing on the corners with signs advertising the deals of the day, etc. and no permit should allow you to violate the ordinance.
How many times was she talked to before the ticket was issued? What was the conversation in those contacts? In other words was she made aware of the violation in a way that she would understand it no matter what her situation?
“You have to stand behind the curb” No curb, then what? Or “You have to stand off of the concrete surface but you may stand on the asphalt shoulder.” The whole road is asphalt no shoulder designation. Now what?
If it can be determined that a “normal” person would have understood the instructions from the officers, and the instrctions match the Ordinance and are not the officer’s interpretation of the intent of the Ordinance, and she was warned more than twice and still did not comply then for her own safety and that of others she should be penalized in some way.
The big issue here after the warning by the officers is, what would happen if this lady were hit and killed. Would there then not be a call for an investigation in to whether the officers could have done more? I think some folks are missing the point that once the officers are aware of a situation they become somewhat liable for not pursuing it enough.
Comment by Irish Wednesday, Mar 9, 11 @ 4:12 pm
She shouldn’t be in the street. She’s been warned multiple times, I see nothing wrong here.
Comment by Wensicia Wednesday, Mar 9, 11 @ 4:15 pm
What planet was he from -
How do you know that she isn’t in great need and telling the truth? Easy answer, we don’t. Either way, there are better ways to deal with this type of situation.
Comment by Jellybean Wednesday, Mar 9, 11 @ 4:32 pm
To me the issue is was she in the road, with traffic going by her in both directions. If so, yes, that should be illegal for her (and everyone else, no matter the good cause) because it’s a hazard.
I’m a 1st Amendment absolutist. I agreed with the Supremes on those Westboro haters. I’d defend their rights until the last dog died, but also happily spend a few days in jail for lighting them up for exercising them.
Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Mar 9, 11 @ 4:40 pm
Was she accepting money as well as potential job offers? I’m guessing she had a pocketful of change and some dollar bills…
Comment by Vote Quimby! Wednesday, Mar 9, 11 @ 5:37 pm
Welcome to Springfield. I am willing to bet against all of the proposed donations there is much more to the story. I would also like to point out that I am not taking either side in the situation.
Comment by Whizbang Wednesday, Mar 9, 11 @ 6:02 pm
I contribute enough of my wages to our local charities to assist folks like this have her become a road hazard.
We have many places for her to go for help. She chose to do this, and it was the wrong thing for her to do.
Poverty is no reason.
Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, Mar 9, 11 @ 6:38 pm
I think that if she was standing directly on the road then it is a safety hazard and she was rightly ticketed, but if she really had kids then the officers should have investigated about who was watching them, however if she was standing away from the road then it was totally ok and she was just using her 1st amendment right also i think that Vanillaman is right and she should have gone to a charity
Comment by Zipo Wednesday, Mar 9, 11 @ 9:39 pm
If the cops have spoken to her many times before, then I’m sure she has been informed of places where she can get assistance for herself and her children if she really needs it.
If she has not availed herself of such help and insists upon begging in the street, I suspect she is either running a scam or has mental health/addiction issues (or both).
If she is standing IN THE STREET or in the median near a busy intersection and getting in the way of traffic, she should indeed be ticketed… and yes I think the same goes for people who stand in the street soliciting donations for charity.
Also, comparing her to DD’s unemployed investment banker is an apples to oranges comparison… the banker was GIVING out copies of his resume and calling attention to the specific skills and credentials that he had, instead of trying to play on people’s sympathy. His sign didn’t say “Out of work father of two,” it said “Experienced MIT grad.” Moreover, there is no indication from the story that he was ever told by the police to stop what he was doing, or that he was engaged in soliciting which required a permit.
Comment by Secret Square Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 3:09 am
She should go to the Home Depot parking lot like everybody else looking for work.
Comment by anon Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 6:28 am
Holding up a sign asking for work should not be illegal.
Standing in a public roadway for any reason including charity should be illegal.
Ignoring repeated warnings from police to stay out of the road should be a class X felony.
Comment by Excessively Rabid Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 8:15 am