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* The AP..
Is it a Christmas tree or a holiday tree?
In Illinois it’s a Christmas tree. That’s what Gov. Pat Quinn calls the tall greenery erected in the main state office building in downtown Chicago.
What governors call the seasonal trees made news when Rhode Island’s governor recently called the blue spruce erected in the Statehouse in Providence a holiday tree instead of a Christmas tree.
Quinn made his thoughts clear on the Christmas tree vs. holiday tree debate Thursday after lighting the state tree. There is also a tree at the Illinois Capitol in Springfield.
* Tribune…
Chicago’s first Jewish mayor will flip the switch during the 98th annual tree lighting ceremony in Daley Plaza on Wednesday.
But unlike Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker, who recently insisted on calling the Wisconsin State Capitol’s evergreen a “Christmas tree,” Mayor Rahm Emanuel intends to refer to the towering Tannenbaum at the city’s center as a “holiday tree,” spokeswoman Tarrah Cooper said.
* The Question: Do you care?
posted by Rich Miller
Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 12:55 pm
Sorry, comments are closed at this time.
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I dont care. I think its a christmas tree. I also think a violin is a fiddle, and a frying pan is a skillet. That does not matter either. Its the old media ginning up the Culture war on Christmas.
Comment by John A Logan Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 12:57 pm
No.
Comment by Lakeview Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 12:58 pm
No, but I’m sympathetic to those that do.
Comment by thechampaignlife Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 1:00 pm
I don’t really care, but it’s still a Christmas tree to me. I have no problem with calling it a holiday tree and being politically correct to call it that. I don’t think calling it a holiday tree undermines faith in America or is dangerous, that’s for sure.
Comment by Grandson of Man Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 1:01 pm
No. No. And no.
Comment by Left Leaner Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 1:02 pm
Oh come on…isn’t the “holiday” Christmas?
Comment by N'ville Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 1:04 pm
no.
Comment by bored now Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 1:08 pm
To me, it’s a Christmas tree.
Attempts in the recent past to name it something else haven’t always met with much success. Note that an Illinois Representative thinks the US Capitol Tree should be a “Christmas Tree” and said so …
From wiki: ” … In 2005, the city of Boston renamed the spruce tree used to decorate the Boston Common a “Holiday Tree” rather than a “Christmas Tree”.[67] The name change drew a poor response from the public and was changed back to “Christmas Tree” after being threatened with several lawsuits by Rev. Jerry Falwell and the Alliance Defense Fund. In the same year, Speaker of the House, Dennis Hastert, R-Ill., asked that the tree that decorates the Capitol grounds to be renamed back to “Christmas tree”. It had been renamed “Holiday tree” in the 1990s.[68] … “
Comment by Retired Non-Union Guy Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 1:08 pm
hmmm, and we shouldn’t criticize rahm for not calling it a christmas tree, either. he’s not christian, and there is no need to offend our jewish residents by forcing him to do so…
Comment by bored now Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 1:09 pm
No, I don’t care. It’s a free country and you can celebrate the birth of an Islamic prophet/Jewish carpenter/Christian savior any way you like.
Comment by wordslinger Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 1:10 pm
I don’t know of a tree being incorporated into any of the other religious holiday this time of year…but perhaps that’s just my ignorance.
If the media is going to make a big deal of this, why now refer to a menora as a holiday candelabra?
Just because we all share the spirit of love and hope during the holidays, it doesn’t mean that the symbols are also interchangable.
Comment by Anon Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 1:16 pm
This is like whether to say alderperson. A few get worked up, the rest shrug.
Comment by Anonymous Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 1:16 pm
Looks like a Christmas Tree.
Smells like a Christmas Tree.
Rahm should just call it a Christmas Tree.
Or let a Christian staffer or Lt. do it.
Is he going to wake up on December 25 and wish Chicago a Happy Holiday?
And, I’m not a Christian, but I hope that I’m pragmatic.
Comment by John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 1:18 pm
Yeah, I care. I care that religion, on both left and right, seems to be more about dividing than uniting.
The left is so afraid of offending anybody in the smallest way that they insist on calling something a name other than what it is. As if the mere word “Christmas tree” would cause great pain to non-Christians.
And then we have the incredible over-reaction from the far right, as if calling it a “Holiday Tree” will be the straw that finally destroyed all faith and sent us all to hell.
Both sides are ridiculous. Both sides need to relax. It is OK to call something what it is, and if somebody’s calls it something else, it will not ruin Christianity forever.
Lighten up people. Figure out what really matters. We’ve got real challenges facing us and wasting time on stupidity annoys the heck out of me.
Comment by Skeeter Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 1:21 pm
Either way. It’s traditionally a Christmans tree, but perhaps Rahm can get call it what he wants.
Comment by walkinfool Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 1:21 pm
Skeeter speaks the truth.
Comment by Lincoln's Penny Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 1:25 pm
If we see a Christmas Tree we call it a Christmas tree period
It is always fun to watch the Christian bigots dismiss the thoughts of others
Comment by CircularFiringSquad Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 1:27 pm
I prefer “Future Festivus Pole”
Comment by Jake From Elwood Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 1:31 pm
I’m not going to hold my breath because of it, but I do care. I would also care if someone tried to make another religion’s icons tolerable by renaming them.
Comment by Norseman Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 1:32 pm
People decorate their homes for the “holidays”, but change them as each “holiday” passes. It is now Christmas time for most people who celebrate the holiday that every store is decked out for. I do not mean to offend those looking forward to Hannukuh and the other celebrations.
But traditionally it’s been a Christmas tree and no one has been greatly offended. Good Gravy, with everything else to worry about in this world, we are going to be worried about offending people by this? Get real.
And this from a person who has no plans to celebrate any holiday.
Comment by Wickedred Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 1:33 pm
It’s a Christmas Tree plain and simple. It’s not a Holiday Menorah, it’s not a Holiday Mishumaa Saba nor should it be and a Christmas Tree should remain just that.
Comment by OurMagician Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 1:36 pm
Here are my thoughts — I am Jewish: I could care less, but it is a Christmas Tree. Calling it a Holiday Tree seems to indicate the tree has some sort sort of meaning to other faiths, including Judaism, which it does not. I would venture to guess that most Rabbis would strong prefer the tree not to be called a Holiday Tree because they do not want people, including Jews, misinterpreting a Christian tradition as a Jewish tradition as well.
Comment by Just Observing Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 1:36 pm
I don’t care at all, but the tree is generally for December 25 or a day that symbolizes December 25, commonly referred to as Christmas. To my knowledge, nobody calls December 25 “holiday.”
Well call Hanukah what it is, why call Christmas and things associated with it differently? Just call things what they are.
Comment by Ahoy Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 1:42 pm
I hardly think Christianity is under assault. However, diminishing one’s religion or traditions by refusing to refer to their customs by their proper name is a sign of disrespect. Mayor Emmanuel should be more sensitive and recognize that the City and the State is made up of diverse people who cherish their traditions. Minimizing that does nothing to bring people together or to celebrate diversity.
Comment by phocion Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 1:43 pm
The other thing that bothers me about these debates is that some people might think these name changes are fueled by the Jewish community, when I don’t think that is the case. As a Jew, I will take any Jew to task that thinks a Christmas Tree should be called a Holiday Tree.
Comment by Just Observing Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 1:43 pm
Apparently only I thought that was funny, Rich. Oh well.
…Skeeter makes a good point..
Comment by G. Willickers Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 1:45 pm
It’s a Christmas tree. But given that it was originally a pagan symbol and now has morphed into a department store display prop, I don’t get bent out of shape if somebody wants to say “holiday.” It’s a Christmas tree in my house, and that’s all that really matters to me.
Comment by soccermom Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 1:46 pm
Here are my thoughts — I am Jewish: I could care less, but it is a Christmas Tree. Calling it a Holiday Tree seems to indicate the tree has some sort sort of meaning to other faiths, including ==Judaism, which it does not. I would venture to guess that most Rabbis would strong prefer the tree not to be called a Holiday Tree because they do not want people, including Jews, misinterpreting a Christian tradition as a Jewish tradition as well.==
I agree, great points. A ham sandwich is not lobster. My “issue” is that certain people say America is being flushed down a moral toilet because we try to be politically sensitive to other faiths or lack of faith.
Comment by Grandson of Man Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 1:47 pm
No
Comment by Stones Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 1:54 pm
So what’s Rahm going to call that 9-pronged candelabra at the Daley Center?
Comment by Original Rambler Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 1:56 pm
The only thing I really want to know is whether there will be a Festivus Pole at the Capitol this year.
Comment by Downstate Weed Chewing Hick Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 1:59 pm
i always enjoy the debate over the christmas tree. of course, the christmas tree isn’t exactly biblical. it was (just) another practice that christians stole from pagans and made it our own. so is the cutting down an evergreen and adorning one’s home christian? well, it’s really german. when chicago was founded, you wouldn’t have ever found a christmas tree.
and even though we christians celebrate christ’s birth on december 25th, jesus wasn’t born in december. or even winter. we appropriated that holiday, too (from pagans)…
Comment by bored now Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 2:00 pm
I agree with a lot of people here in that I think it’s pretty funny that we are giving a clearly Christian symbol some androgynous name. I mean if someone’s Jewish and they are frustrated about the government supporting Christianity at the expense of other religions I don’t think calling a Christmas tree a holiday tree is really going to mollify them.
Comment by chuddery Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 2:01 pm
I dunno. Tannenbaum is the German word. That translates as “fir tree.”
Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 2:03 pm
RE: Just Observing - I think most Jews in the US accept the fact that we’re in the minority here. So let the majority call a Xmas Tree a Xmas Tree but respect our traditions as well. What amazes me is that no one has brought up the cost of these displays for the Illinois (Chicago only?) taxpayers … my employer has cut way back on our Holiday Parties over the last few years at least to convey the appropriate fiscal restraint in these times. What about our elected officials?
Comment by globalguy Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 2:05 pm
Tangential to the ham sandwich and the lobster:
Just ask Rahm: “What’s the b’rucha for the Holiday Tree?”
Comment by John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 2:07 pm
Xmas Tree since there are symbolic decorations representative of other religions at the same site but he can call the bloody thing whatever he wants since he’s the big cheese now.
Money tree would probably be more accurate.
Comment by BelleAire Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 2:15 pm
No.
Comment by Ray del Camino Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 2:21 pm
=== What amazes me is that no one has brought up the cost of these displays for the Illinois (Chicago only?) taxpayers ===
I could certainly be wrong, but I think in a lot of communities, they are privately funded displays on public property.
Comment by Just Observing Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 2:23 pm
In my opinion as a Christian, a “Christmas” tree is not a Christian symbol and certainly not a religious icon. The widespread use of Christmas trees is fairly recent and dates to an era when much of the festivities surrounding Christmas had become rather tangential to the original purpose of commemorating Christ’s birth. Thus, while “Christmas tree” is the traditional name, I don’t find it offensive to rename it. Practically speaking, decorated trees appear in the homes of many who would not call themselves Christians (even in the homes of some Jews, although I know many Jews do consider the trees Christian and therefore unacceptable in a Jewish home). Frankly, if Christians aren’t offended at all the other things that are now associated with “their” holiday (Black Friday stampedes, overeating, cartloads of plastic toys in environmentally unfriendly packaging, what passes these days for “Christmas music,” etc.), why on earth would we take umbrage at a public official calling something a holiday tree?
Comment by merry Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 2:35 pm
I have started calling the menorah a “holiday candelabra.”
(Full Disclosure: My wife of 31 years is Jewish.)
Comment by Cincinnatus Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 2:36 pm
Tannenbaum would satisfy all, I think.
I really don’t think the Christmas tree (or holiday tree or piece of aluminum and plastic from China) is a symbol of Christianity. They weren’t even present in this nation much before the nineteenth century.
Comment by cermak_rd Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 2:39 pm
Merry said it well. I don’t care, non issue. I’m more offended by the fact that we continue to cut down and destroy healthy trees by the millions every year just to temporarily display them and then toss them out four weeks later. Seems like a terrible senseless waste of natural resources to me.
Put up all the Christmas decorations you like, but could you make them a little “greener” perhaps?
Comment by siriusly Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 2:40 pm
=== What amazes me is that no one has brought up the cost of these displays for the Illinois (Chicago only?) taxpayers ===
Does it half to be gloom and doom all the time? Keeping the city bright and cheery is good for business especially around Christmas/Hannukah/Kwanza/Festivus/Winter Solstice Pagan Festival/Football Season.
They call it Black Friday because that’s when retailers (hopefully) start moving into the black for the year. Anything that helps attract business right about now is a good thing.
And there ain’t no sin in being glad you’re alive, either.
Comment by wordslinger Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 2:41 pm
Don’t care-my wife has three of the things up in our house taking up space. Will go to church on Xmas (interesting - spell check red-lined xmas , but accepted Xmas) eve, and that will take care of that for another year. Find the comments from the Jewish readers very interesting-glad to see that they are more tolerant than some “Christians”…
Comment by downstate commissioner Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 2:46 pm
–Merry said it well. I don’t care, non issue. I’m more offended by the fact that we continue to cut down and destroy healthy trees by the millions every year just to temporarily display them and then toss them out four weeks later.–
Christmas tree farmers all over Wisconsin and Michigan would disagree. They raise the trees like any other crop to be harvested and consumed.
The UPers I buy my tree from love coming down for a month, living in a trailer in a parking lot, selling trees and maple syrup and exploring the bars and restaurants after hours.
It’s also how they make a living, like any other farmer.
Comment by wordslinger Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 2:46 pm
===continue to cut down and destroy healthy trees by the millions every year===
They’re grown specifically for that purpose, like corn. And not all trees are sold, so it has a positive net effect.
Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 2:49 pm
Ok Word & Rich, I will accept that and I retract my harrumph.
Merry Christmas everyone! Bottoms up.
Comment by siriusly Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 2:53 pm
I also agree with Word about the cost of the trees and the lights.
Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 2:55 pm
I care, for all the reasons others have listed. I do believe there is an unacknowledged, and perhaps subconscious, desire to eliminate Christianity from our heritage.
Comment by JustaJoe Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 2:59 pm
Politcally correct or not, it’s a CRHISTMAS tree. And yes I do care.
Comment by Dan Shields, Springfield, IL Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 3:00 pm
It started as a Christmas tree. It’s a Christmas tree.
Others who are offended changed it.
I can’t wait until the “Spring Bunny” visits in April, or when when I can meet my friends for a drink on “Pat the green elf day” in March.
Merry CHRISTMAS to all of you! God bless!
Comment by Politicrap Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 3:02 pm
Yes, it’s a Christmas tree. If they put up a menorah in the public square, like they do in my hometown, it’s not a holiday candle stick.
Comment by Downstate Illinois Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 3:02 pm
===It started as a Christmas tree===
Actually, no.
Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 3:08 pm
A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take away your Christmas Tree.
Comment by WazUP Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 3:08 pm
Here’s the problem. Even though we all know that wreaths and bows and lights are pretty much Christmas things, it’s not so very difficult to imagine them instead as festive but generic acknowledgement of the general holiday season. But then the State pays to put a big ol’ fir tree up in the Capitol but neglects to add a menorah, mishumaa saba, festivus pole, what have you. So then people look at that and go, “Hey! Why is the government paying for a Christmas tree but not for decorations honoring MY religious holiday?!”
In response to that, the State has limited choices: pay for more decorations, get sued and/or take down the tree, or rename it a holiday tree in an effort to encourage people to think about it in the same way they think about the wreaths and bows and lights.
Personally, I don’t have any qualms with “nod nod wink wink…holiday tree!” The Capitol certainly doesn’t need any more swag and paying to defend the State’s decorating decisions in court is just ridiculous. But we have paid for the Christmas tree already, so we might as well use it, right? Also, I think it’s pretty.
Comment by TheLowlyScrivener Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 3:09 pm
All people want is a little respect. The Christmas tree is a secular symbol of a religious event. There are also a plethora of other events/activities that occur this time of the year.
Simply have the courage to call an object what it is .
If is a ffir tree with decorations, it is a Christmas tree to me. If you wish to call it something else, that is fine by me. Just don’t tell me what to call it.
Comment by Plutocrat03 Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 3:11 pm
No, but hey, does Hizzoner care if I call it a holiday menorah?
Comment by Homer J. Simpson Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 3:11 pm
–A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take away your Christmas Tree.–
I did not know government was big enough or even willing to give me everything I want or that it had taken my Christmas tree.
But it sounds like a swell deal. I’ll take it.
Comment by wordslinger Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 3:18 pm
Not really, though I’ve never heard anyone who puts one up talk about setting up their Holiday Tree. Whatever.
On a side note, Black Friday is not when retailers move from the red to black, though they’d rather have you believe that than this:
www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2011/11/real-story-behind-black-friday
Comment by TwoFeetThick Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 3:23 pm
As long as it looks good, people like it, and it gets people shopping call it what ever you like. I lean toward Festivus celebrations with lots of winter lager just for general principles.
Comment by zatoichi Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 3:24 pm
JustaJoe,
And that concern, about wanting to eliminate Christianity from “our” heritage, is one of the reasons I support holiday instead of Christmas. You see, I don’t have a Christian heritage. I don’t have one and I don’t want one. You can have mine.
What non-theists and religious minorities are trying to do is de-privilege Christianity so that it is just one religion. Equal to all others present in this nation. With more adherents, yes, but still, equal (not privileged) in the culture and under the law.
Comment by cermak_rd Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 3:25 pm
I don’t care, why religious types have a hissy fit over this is beyond me. Call it whatever you like, why should you care what others outside your beliefs call it?
Comment by Wensicia Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 3:39 pm
My personal opinion: I’ll call it what I want and you call it what you want. Don’t try to guilt me into following your lead.
Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 3:45 pm
If it is no big deal then why can’t we call it what it has been traditionally been called? If it is no big deal then why not honor those among us who feel strongly about it and call it a Christmas Tree? No big deal, right?
For the life of me I can’t imagine how it is possible that this thing being called a Christmas Tree can possibly offend anyone.
Comment by dupage dan Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 4:01 pm
I understand saying “Happy Holidays” instead of “Merry Christmas,” but it’s not a Holiday Menorah, so it’s not a Holiday Tree. They are what they are.
Comment by Oh fir chrissake Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 4:02 pm
Never ceases to amaze me that people get worked up over this. Like Rich said, I’ll call it what I call it, you call it what you want. Sometimes I’ll say Happy Holidays, sometimes Merry Christmas. Yet there’s always a few people who get into a snit about this stuff. I don’t get it. As long as it’s pretty, I’m happy.
It’s not even really Christian in any meaningful way. Just symbols co-opted as bits of Europe got converted.
Comment by In 630 Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 4:05 pm
It seems to me that people who get bent out of shape over these things really should find something worthwhile to do with their time. If people invested as much time and energy in treating one another with kindness and lending a helping hand to those in need as they do in being offended by others’ religious beliefs or lack thereof or seeking hidden meaning in everything that anyone says that the world would be a better place.
Comment by cynically anonymous Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 4:06 pm
===If it is no big deal then why not honor those among us who feel strongly about it===
If we always bowed to everybody who felt strongly about something we’d never get off our knees.
Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 4:08 pm
Yes, I care.
Comment by Southern Illinois Voter Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 4:20 pm
It has been and will always be a Christmas tree to me. If it is something else to someone else, then so be it.
These days I have a hard enough time getting down on my knees let alone getting off of them.
Comment by Jaded Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 4:20 pm
Respecting and accepting another person’s heritage shows an understanding of the great melting pot that is our wonderful diverse American culture– and the importance of each individual ingredient towards the whole. My two doors down neighbors are a Catholic married to a Jew for over 30 years. Seders, Easter bunnies and egg hunts, lighting the menorahs, Christmas trees, stockings hung for Santa, dreidels, they proudly did it all as a family. They wanted their kids to experience first hand what they themselves had done while they were growing up in their respective Jewish and Christian homes. Their children were often the envy of their friends because something was always going on at their house.
Other Jewish friends (a couple we’ve known since college) on several occasions have gone Christmas caroling with us. They know the words and melodies by osmosis. They say they enjoy the singing, the tradition of honoring shut-ins, and the hot toddies, cocoa and Christmas cookies afterward.
“PC” people who call it a holiday tree neither offend me or anger me. But it does make me sad because I think they are diminishing and missing the point on the mixture of cultures and religions that make the USA so unique and wonderful.
Comment by Responsa Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 4:20 pm
==If we always bowed to everybody who felt strongly about something we’d never get off our knees.==
Excellent point, nobody in this country should ever have to bow down to another’s belief, or lack of.
Comment by Wensicia Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 4:30 pm
But just to clarify, I’ve never called it a “Holiday tree.”
Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Dec 2, 11 @ 4:39 pm