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* Surprisingly enough, former Gov. Jim Edgar says that he would’ve also backed a bill pushed by the Democrats last month that would apply pension reforms only to legislators. Greg Hinz explains why…
The reason is that the wider bill being pushed by many Democrats, particularly Senate President John Cullerton, may well be unconstitutional because it slashes benefits for those already on the state payroll. Passing the legislators-only bill would have allowed an immediate, low-complications means to begin the inevitable court challenge and see what the judges will allow, he said.
I took that as a shot at Springfield Republicans and the Civic Committee of the Commercial Club, both of which have been pushing an “all or nothing” approach with much deeper cuts in benefits.
Interesting.
* Edgar also had this to say about House Speaker Michael Madigan…
Mr. Edgar said he wouldn’t have called that late-August special legislative session that Mr. Quinn called — not without some reason to think that something was likely to happen. All that did is rile up the various factions, he said. Illinois House Speaker Michael Madigan “is a smart guy. But he can’t govern the state. Only the governor can.”
Madigan will always try to govern when he believes that the sitting governor can’t or won’t. He was content to sit back and let Edgar do his thing after the first couple of years. He deferred to George Ryan pretty much the whole time, and he let Rod Blagojevich have his way on almost everything the first year of Rod’s first term, and then for the third and fourth years of that term.
If he thinks you’re weak or ineffective, he’ll flex his muscles hard. And that’s what he’s been doing with Quinn.
posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 9:04 am
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=== Passing the legislators-only bill would have allowed an immediate, low-complications means to begin the inevitable court challenge ===
I’ve been saying this all along.
However, “immediate” would depend on a legislator/legislators actually filing a challenge.
That’ll be a fun dance to watch.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 9:08 am
The current pension reform plan being pushed by Madigan will be found to be unconstitutional, since it applies to current workers and retirees. This will have cost the state big money and lost time, all because we have a governor who will not lead, and a house leader who has taken over the leadership role!
Comment by Billy Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 9:21 am
=== we have a governor who will not lead ===
Billy, if by some chance you happen to find yourself in public office some day, you’ll quickly learn that leaders have very short reins.
Republicans not only stubbornly refuse to participate in the legislative process, but obstruct any effort to actually get anything done.
You cannot lead lawmakers with an attitude like that. They are behaving like toddlers. Any parent who has ever experienced a two year-old meltdown in the grocery store or witnessed it should have great sympathy for Governor Quinn.
When the GOP temper tantrum is over, bipartisan governing can resume.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 9:30 am
Jim who?
Comment by Just asking Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 9:31 am
I think this is unfair to Quinn. Edgar, Ryan and even Blago never dealt with this kind of crisis, though they contributed to it.
Also, they didn’t have to deal with the kind of partisanship seen today. Heck, Cross worked with Rod more than he will with Quinn.
It’s no secret that I’m a huge Quinn supporter, but I can admit he has flaws. However, a lot has been accomplished since he’s been at the helm; and as Madigan said at the DNC breakfast Monday, we’re fortunate the governor has been there to deal with one serious problem after another.
Comment by Small Town Liberal Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 9:33 am
Last week during the RNC there were a bunch of stories about which Republicans would run for Governor and they forgot to include Edgar so this bit of self promotion tour was inevitable this week.
Would someone please repeatedly ask Jim Edgar if he would save Illinois by running for Governor so we can get everything back to normal again? Thanks.
Comment by The Captain Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 9:45 am
@SMT -
The Attorney General also gave Governor Quinn a fair bit of credit.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 9:51 am
Getting the legislator only plan litigated quickly would not be a bad idea (the GA would not be spending the “savings” elsewhere during the pendency of the suit, so as to be digging a bigger budget hole if the plan is not upheld).
One (or more) of the retired legislators could file the suit (if needed to provide political cover to the current GA members)
Comment by titan Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 10:05 am
It’s a fantasy of the willfully ignorant that any speaker could run the state. There are a couple of little things called the Senate and the governor’s office.
Any governor with a veto pen, the ability to hire and make appointments and dole out grants has a lot of power. Just has to use it effectively.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 10:08 am
You can knock Edgar, (I have, full disclosure), but he always seems to have the ‘pulse’ of what is going on, and probably one of the few on the short list of people who can actually UNDERSTAND what Madigan says AND what Madigan means … the list youcan probably count on one hand.
It’s one thing to be that astute, and to handle situations … it’s another to pass on that knowledge to others so they can learn. The ILGOP, as a whole, from the IL House & Senate, to statewides from days gone by, never grasped that advice, that insight …and made it their own. It’s like the student who the teacher tells all the answers to in algebra … that doesn’t mean the student can do algebra on their own, it just means they learned the algebra for that problem. The ILGOP, collectively, can do the problems Edgar teaches (when they listen), but that doesn’t mean they can do the algebra Edgar does with Madigan.
It would be easier if the ILGOP would remember the “Madigan Rules” … but I digress … but it would be easier.
Heed Jim Edgar … and learn your algebra Tom Cross and Christine Radogno … it’s not too late.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 10:09 am
Edgar is right.
Partisanship is not a big problem when one party pretty much runs everything, however. Blaming the GOP on Illinois’ situation is like blaming a bank failure on the security guard.
Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 10:23 am
Every time Edgar and Madigan’s names show up together, I wonder who Madigan would have voted for in the privacy of the voting booth if Edgar had came out of retirement to run against Blago…
Also agree with Willy-Cross and Radogno need to learn to work with Madigan, not mouth off about him all of the time.
Comment by downstate commissioner Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 10:33 am
Speaking of pensions, why doesn’t Illinois have something like this for low income wage earners?
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505245_162-57504767/calif-lawmakers-ok-private-sector-retirement-plan/
Comment by Pep Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 11:15 am
In the end if the legislature reduces the annual appropriation for current pensions (or anything else), and the executive branch cuts reduced checks based on that appropriation the courts are stuck, constitutional or not. The courts can’t and won’t assume the roles of the other branches of government, and that is the only tool they have to enforce the Constitution. This is where our $83 billion pension shortfall is ultimately taking us. All this talk of pension reform being able to fix this problem is to quote the Bard of Avon: “…a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”
Comment by wishbone Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 11:19 am
Pep,
“It would be administered by a seven-member board chaired by the state treasurer.”
“But Republicans said they have too many questions about the program and note that if the underwriter fails to meet investment targets, taxpayers and employers could be held responsible for covering investment losses and administrative overhead.”
“CalPERS is going to request to manage this money…”
We already have programs workers can use, the 401k and, “Morrell said low-income workers might be better off financially if they put after-tax earnings into a Roth IRA, which would allow them to earn investments tax-free.”
Comment by Cincinnatus Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 11:39 am
There are significant legal entanglements associated with the group-think that debt elimnation should be realized by ripping-off the creditor workforce and calling it “pension reform”. These possible legal problems call for the moral and sustainable solution of paying back the money that was borrowed from the employees.
Legitimate reform should involve spreading the burden re-ramped or re-financed) over a longer period of time combined with tax fairness that addresses Illinois’ structural deficit.
Pensions have already been cut for new employees. - done. All of the current “reform” legislation seems to create alot of new problems without addressing Illinois’ debt problem.
Comment by Crime Fighter Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 11:43 am
===Partisanship is not a big problem when one party pretty much runs everything, however. ===
===Blaming the GOP on Illinois’ situation is like blaming a bank failure on the security guard.===
Partisanship is ALWAYS a problem when you are trying to get big things done.
Michael Jordan averaged better than 30 points a game and better than 50% shooting with the Bulls from 1985-1990. But that doesn’t matter if the rest of the team can’t pull their own weight.
You can have five future Hall of Famers at the top of your line-up, but if the bottom four are batting .200, you’re not gonna win the Division, let alone the Pennant or World Series.
Republicans aren’t failing to just pull their own weight or bat .200. They’re throwing the game. Turning over the ball and hitting into double plays on purpose.
Quinn was right to call it sabotage.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 12:51 pm
Ydd. The GOP can not sabotage anything. Madigan Cullerton and Quinn do not need one GOP vote to do whatever they want. Remember the tax increase. The GOP is a joke but trying to blame the ineptness of the Madigan Cullerton Quinn regime on them is just false.
Comment by Fed up Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 1:21 pm
@Crime Fighter -
How dare you suggest that the concept of “Moral Hazard” should apply to lawmakers!
The GOP is “Too Big to Fail.”
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 1:39 pm
@ YDD - Sorry I lost my head with that responsibility thing….
Comment by Crime Fighter Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 1:53 pm
YDD
A retiree could bring the challenge. I suspect there would be friends of the court briefs from the unions.
Comment by reformer Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 2:08 pm
==paying back the money that was borrowed from the employees===
Thanks Crimefighter for saying it so well.The massive elephant in the room is that the general public has had tax relief for decades because the state employees pension funds were paying their bills. Inconvenient truth. Why, oh why, those same employees who got ripped off would now be made to pay again is beyond my comprehension logically—–but it’s a brilliant tactic to divert the blame, isn’t it?
Comment by geronimo Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 2:13 pm
@reformer -
Retirees and current employees are two completely different classes of plaintiffs.
In theory, a retiree could sue and the Supreme Court could rule against them, which would certainly open the door to changing benefits for current employees moving forward.
However, a much more likely scenario is that the court rules in favor of a current retiree while remaining silent on whether or not changes can be made moving forward for a current employee. In that case, the Supreme Court ruling tells you nothing.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 2:36 pm
@Fed up -
The GOP postponed a necessary tax increase for 15 years, and even then it was only temporary and not large enough to address the state’s structural budget deficit.
It only took eight guys to throw the World Series. If you don’t think 78 Republican state officials can sabotage state government, you don’t understand how state government works.
Lordy, how I miss Bill Black.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 2:43 pm
“Duckworth said her speech was ‘electric, it was energizing…’”
The most compelling part of that line was her own insistence. Reading a lot of buzzwords off a teleprompter does not make an “electric” or “energizing” speech.
Her skill as a public speaker is middling at best.
Comment by Brendan Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 3:14 pm
What would help pensions most is an end to the Repub obstruction in Congress. Obsession w/ the Debt while trying to recover from recession is a recipe for a double dip…just look at UK. Krugman’s new book nails it–greater stimulous will bring greater productivity and bring down the debt. But Congressional Repubs obstruct.
Comment by D.P. Gumby Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 3:28 pm
To me, the fact that the legislature has not yet passed a General Assembly Retirement System bill is a sign that most legislators are all talk on this issue. The prudent thing would have been to pass a GA only bill last year and the Courts would have most likely ruled on this issue by now. To buy into the all or nothing approach is BS, thanks Civic Club…Anyone who wishes to minimize the financial impact of the Courts overturning the law should take this approach. As Biss said, they are all idiots for failing to pass a GARS-only bill by now.
Comment by dirt diver Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 3:32 pm
=The GOP can not sabotage anything. Madigan Cullerton and Quinn do not need one GOP vote to do whatever they want. Remember the tax increase. The GOP is a joke but trying to blame the ineptness of the Madigan Cullerton Quinn regime on them is just false.=
@ Fed Up…Not all Democrats are willing to gobble up union money for years, then sell them out to pander to the media and “public-employees are evil” crowd. Madigan and Cullerton can’t but all Dem’s on this.
Comment by dirt diver Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 3:36 pm
D.P. Gumby,
How much more stimulus would you need, how much more deficit, how much more debt? The problem we are now seeing is the Obama stimulus was not a one time event, but instead raised the baseline spending for subsequent years. We now have government spending at 25% of GDP instead of the normal 18-20% history. And before you talk about increasing the tax rate on millionaires, doing so as the Democrats wish would only raise $62B over 10 years, a drop in the bucket on the $1.3T ANNUAL deficits we’re running.
And one more thing, during Obama’s first two years, he had a VETO PROOF Democrat majority (which was around during Bush’s last two years) where he could have raised taxes, increased spending or done anything he wanted without a single Republican vote (sounds like Springfield for a longer period than that). And as far as blaming Bush, forget about it. Nobody forced Obama (or Quinn) to run for office, if Obama didn’t know what he was getting into, it’s his fault for being naive or unprepared, not Bush’s fault.
So for those that delusionally believe Republicans are to blame, get real. Until Democrats accept some blame or at least acknowledge they have ruled unilaterally for years, Republicans have no reason to compromise.
Comment by Cincinnatus Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 4:08 pm
@dirt diver, Fed Up -
At the other end of the Democratic Party, Democrats in “swing” districts have a tough time voting for a pension bill that Tom Cross, the Chicago Tribune, and the Civic Federation are crapping all over. There are quite a few Democratic lawmakers who have more Republicans than Democrats in their district.
Illinois Republicans gleefully do whatever they can to ensure state government fails, so long as folks like you, Fed up, continue to blame Democrats…just as Congressional Republicans eagerly do whatever they can to see America fail just so they can blame it on Obama.
Republicans secretly - and sometimes openly - wish unemployment was higher and we hadn’t created 4.5 million jobs over the past 29 months.
Sabotage, sabotage, sabotage.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 4:14 pm
@ YDD
I understand why they haven’t it passed it yet, I’m calling the concept of the “all-or-nothing” approach as BS and idiotic. I would say that if I were a “target” or a democrat in a republican district, I could easily defend why I voted to reform only GARS.
Comment by dirt diver Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 4:20 pm
@Cincinattus -
Um, not only did Obama not have veto-proof majorities in either chamber of Congress, but Senate Republicans also made ample use of the filibuster and filibuster threats during Obama’s first two years.
Quinn was right about Republicans being afraid of “Facts”, I think.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 4:21 pm
–And one more thing, during Obama’s first two years, he had a VETO PROOF Democrat majority…–
I’m curious as to what that is supposed to mean.
Obama had such a large Democratic majority in Congress that they would override…. Obama’s vetoes?
Clearly, you’re on a roll, if confused. I hope someone gives you a gold star everyday for hitting the daily talking points.
–Until Democrats accept some blame or at least acknowledge they have ruled unilaterally for years, Republicans have no reason to compromise.–
Unless, doing your job you were elected to do means something. Or is all about hurt feelings?
Tell you what, I’ll take all the blame: everyone want to get back to work now?
If you can find the words Democratic or Republican parties in either the U.S. or Illinois constitutions, your insistence on party over responsibility is curious, to say the least.
If anyone’s interested in an informed and non-partisan report card on the last four years, The Economist has a pretty good one.
http://www.economist.com/node/21561909?spc=scode&spv=xm&ah=9d7f7ab945510a56fa6d37c30b6f1709
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 4:25 pm
@Fed Up: Interesting that so many GOPers just assume the Dems should vote as a block, as ordered by their leaders. Is that what you expect of GOP legislators? Madigan and Cullerton just cannot push around the Dem caucus members that way. Their power is way overrated by those who don’t know.
When a roll call on a highly contentious issue like civil unions, death penalty, pensions, or taxes, produces a near unanimous vote by the Dems, it is almost always because some Republicans also actually support its passing. They will vote yes if needed, but try to avoid that vote for political reasons, if the Dems can cover them. That’s why the vote tote board moves all around before it settles on just enough votes to pass the bill.
When these bills are not brought to the floor, it is because not enough combined votes from both parties can be garnered.
Comment by walkinfool Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 4:39 pm
=== Tell you what, I’ll take all the blame: everyone want to get back to work now? ===
Save some of that blame for me, Wordslinger.
Or, rather than blame either party, we could blame Independent voters, since they are the ones who decide elections.
Or, if you want to come up with a nice, mathematical model, perhaps Fortner could go back to 1950, when this pension mess started, total up the years the GOP held the governor’s mansion as well as their percent of representation of the House and Senate, and multiply that percentage by $80 billion.
Then, Republicans can pass a plan with all Republican votes to solve — let’s say $60 billion for sake of argument — of the pension deficit and Democrats can pass a plan without any GOP votes to solve the other $20 billion. Or $40B-$40B. Or $30 B - $50 B, however the math turns out.
Sound fair? I think it sounds fair.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 4:54 pm
One thing both parties agree on: Blame the Employees.
Comment by Crime Fighter Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 5:07 pm
Edgar has finally come out and said what the public wants! Cut pensions for legislator’s part time work, not full time employees and teachers that get less than the GA! How about cutting their per DM as well within a 75 mile radius and making them drive to work for free like the rest of us!
Comment by Maxine on Politics Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 5:09 pm
This is a story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody and Nobody.
There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it. Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it. Somebody got angry about that, because it was Everybody’s job. Everybody thought Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn’t do it.
It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done.
Tip your waitress …
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 5:11 pm
It’s odd that legislators’ time/effort/longevity on the job entitles them to any kind of pension at all let alone reducing the one they have!
Comment by geronimo Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 5:57 pm
Ydd how did you we create 4.5 million jobs when their are less people employed now then when Obama took office.
Comment by Fed up Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 7:05 pm
@Crime Fighter -
I could be wrong, but I think atleast the leaders of all four caucuses and the Governor have carefully tried not to blame the employees. Although Republicans are equally careful not to say anything exculpatory on employees’ behalf either.
At the same time its been made pretty clear that employees and to some extent retirees are expected to shoulder the responsibility for fixing what someone else broke.
One could certainly understand why public employees would be incensed with lawmakers who complain that passing pension changes is “hard.” Its not NEARLY as hard as being on the receiving end of some of those proposed changes.
And, with all of this talk of “shared” sacrifice, corporations don’t appear to be doing much “sharing.” Corporate tax revenues as a portion of the budget are at historic lows both at the federal level and in Illinois.
To give you some sense of just HOW LOW, in the 1960’s corporate income taxes made up 21% of the federal budget revenue. Today, its 7.9%.
In Illinois, corporate income taxes account for only 5% of state revenue.
I’ll tell you what: rather than focusing time and energy on a graduated income tax, maybe we should just get rid of the darn 8/5ths rule in the Constitution that caps corporate tax rates.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 7:13 pm
YYD @ 4:54
Maybe you should include which parties controlled the GA during the same period …
Comment by RNUG Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 10:25 pm
Fed Up,
what everyone skips over when quoting that 4.5M number is that the new jobs were created at a lower rate than new workers were entering the job market from high school and college. In a more normal economy, it usually grows jobs faster than the rate of new job seekers (minus the number of retirements).
Comment by RNUG Wednesday, Sep 5, 12 @ 10:30 pm
YDD,
Budget matters are not subject to filibuster.
Comment by Cincinnatus Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 9:45 am