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* I watched the debate last night between Joe Walsh and Tammy Duckworth and this part stood out for me…
Walsh described himself as ‘Pro-life without exception.”
He said he did not believe in an exception for rape and incest because — “there’s still a life there.” He then added: “the life of the woman is not an exception.” Walsh nicked Duckworth for having the complete opposite view.
“[Duckworth] actually supports tax-payer funding of abortions,” Walsh said.
Duckworth went full steam ahead at her response.
“I’m pro-choice without restriction, and here though, Mr. Walsh … what he said — not for rape, incest or life of the mother — he would let a woman die rather than give her, than to give the doctor the option to save her life.”
Walsh interrupted her, all the while saying: “That’s not fair.”
After the debate, Walsh later explained his remark that the life of the woman is not an exception, saying that medically today, the health of the mother is not a reason for an abortion.
* So, no women are ever in danger from dying due to pregnancy? Yes, according to Walsh…
Asked by reporters after the debate if he was saying that it’s never medically necessary to conduct an abortion to save the life of a mother, Walsh responded, “Absolutely.”
“With modern technology and science, you can’t find one instance,” he said. “… There is no such exception as life of the mother, and as far as health of the mother, same thing.”
“Absolutely”? Not one instance? Ever? Really?
Um, Joe, even staunchly pro-life groups admit there are some abortions performed to save the life of the mother.
You’re wrong, Joe.
*** UPDATE 1 *** From the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists…
“Abortions are necessary in a number of circumstances to save the life of a woman or to preserve her health,” the college said. “Unfortunately, pregnancy is not a risk-free life event, particularly for many women with chronic medical conditions. Despite all of our medical advances, more than 600 women die each year from pregnancy- and childbirth-related reasons right here in the US. In fact, many more women would die each year if they did not have access to abortion to protect their health or to save their lives.”
Walsh has scheduled a 2:30 press conference today to discuss his comments, which have gone national
*** UPDATE 2 *** The Daily Herald didn’t even bother to include the Walsh/Duckworth abortion exchange in its story this morning. But its reporter did go to Walsh’s presser. From the Twitterverse…
@RepJoeWalsh pro life “for mother, unborn child.”
@RepJoeWalsh cites ectopic pregnancies as rare instances that could kill mother and child.
@repjoewalsh calls @Tammy4Congress “pro abortion zealot.”
@repjoewalsh distances himself from todd akin and “legitimate rape” comments.
@RepJoeWalsh didnt take questions about whether hes now making exception
The idea there is some kind of modern medical technology or procedure that has made full-term pregnancies suddenly perfectly safe for all women is news to Dr. Carrie Terrell, an ob-gyn and chief of staff at the University of Minnesota Medical Center.
“There are innumerable potential instances wherein a termination of pregnancy would be indicated to save a woman’s life,” she said in a phone interview Friday.
That list includes “but is not limited to,” she said, such serious conditions as:
* chorioamnionitis in pre-viable pre-term premature rupture of membranes (a bacteria-related inflammation of the fetal membranes),
* severe pre-eclampsia and other hypertensive (high blood pressure) disorders,
* certain forms of cardiomyopathy (a disease that weakens and enlarges the heart),
* various maternal cardiac and pulmonary anomalies,
* severe nephrosis,
* severe cancers,
* infections with sepsis, and
* multi-organ failure.Terrell said that in her practice, she sees pregnant women with these kinds of conditions several times a year.
* The other thing that stood out for me in the coverage of this topic is that nobody challenged Duckworth to explain what she meant when she said she is “pro-choice without restriction.” What the heck does that mean? Abortion up to nine months for any reason at all?
* Related…
* Walsh, Duckworth tone down harsh rhetoric at final debate
* Walsh, Duckworth Friendlier in Fourth Debate
posted by Rich Miller
Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 1:09 am
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Allow me to interpret, Rich.
Duckworth: “I polled on this and it turns out the LVs love abortion. No seriously they literally love it. They would marry pregnancy termination if they could. It is just that awesome here. So I am going to say this thing that is the grammatical opposite of what Walsh says to drive that point home. It is pretty awesome to give the people what they want!”
Walsh: “I did not poll this issue because I am dumb. Also even if I did, I would say the same thing, because that would be COMPROMISE and also I am crazy. Also hey Rupert Murdoch my contractual demands are in the mail.”
Comment by Will Caskey Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 7:22 am
I would like to recommend that every Republican politician participate in a good, science-based sex education class.
Comment by Aldyth Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 7:23 am
I dunno…I think the issue in this election for me is “It’s the economy, stupid!” not “It’s abortion, stupid!”
Comment by M Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 7:56 am
I think Duckworth was talking about the restrictions most Republicans support, no abortions except for rape, incest, and life of the mother.
Comment by Wensicia Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 8:21 am
Maybe agree with you, M. But I look at the entire package. Sadly our two party system often presents us with a choice between the lesser of two evils. Walsh’s comments/ignorance on abortion are borderline Aiken like.
Comment by dang Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 8:21 am
I believe Rick Santorum’s wife had an abortion in order to save her life.
Comment by Don't Worry, Be Happy Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 8:30 am
Is Walsh always that angry? Talk about high-strung!
Comment by Stones Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 8:43 am
Walsh is the lead story in Huffington Post this morning. What an idiot.
Comment by Lil Enchilada Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 8:55 am
During the debate when I heard him make the statement about life of mother not being an exception, I honestly understood him to mean that it was a no brainer that the life of the mother always came first– (so obviously that situation is not and could never be considered an “exception” as he and some others do for rape, etc.)
If that’s not what he meant, Uh oh, Joe.
Comment by Responsa Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 8:56 am
Even the Catholic Church recognizes that an abortion is necessary sometimes, e.g., ectopic pregnancy.
Joe Walsh must have been taught science by Todd Akin
Comment by I don't want to live in Teabagistan Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 8:56 am
Walsh is an absolute moron. As wonderful as it would be if medical science had advanced to the point where pregnancy is never a danger to the mother’s life, it hasn’t. The fact that he simply doesn’t care enough about women’s health to know that speaks volumes.
Comment by TooManyJens Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 8:57 am
Complete text from their campaign websites on the issue:
Walsh:
Family Issues – I am strongly Pro-Life and believe in the sanctity of all human life.
Duckworth:
Women’s Rights: I fully support a woman’s right to control her own body. I do not support any restrictions on a woman’s right to choose or her access to safe, affordable reproductive health services. I believe that all Americans are afforded a right to privacy and the right to make personal decisions about their health care without coercion. Protecting women’s rights is essential for all Americans to achieve their own American Dream. As a Member of Congress I will work to guarantee that women are treated equally and fairly in all areas. This includes receiving equal pay for equal work.
Comment by wordslinger Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 8:57 am
You will sometimes hear people saying that they don’t support abortion for ANY reason, and it turns out that they explicitly consider treatments that are intended to save the mother’s life (such as removal of the embryo in an ectopic pregnancy) not to be abortions, even if they end in the death of the embryo, because that’s not the intent of the procedure. I don’t think that kind of semantic parsing is very wise, but in the end, they do mean that women’s lives should be saved. That’s not what Walsh is saying, though. He just lives in some kind of rainbow unicorn fantasy land where the subject never comes up because doctors can always save everybody.
Comment by TooManyJens Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 8:59 am
I would comment that it’s possible to work on two things at once, except health care issues really are economic issues. And so women’s health care decisions, whether they can make them without interference from those who have no business in the equation, and the payment for health care, are totally appropriate for discussion for elections.
Walsh’s idea that life of the mother is never a question sounds nuts…..and it is….but it is one that is passed around by lots of conservatives. Unfortunately I have a friend with whom I’m regularly talking and to whom I say “talk to the doctors.” but, then, the Tea Party crowd does not seem to believe in science so, sadly, what do we expect from them but the Walsh kind of nonsense. here’s hoping their ranks in D.C. can be lowered with a loss by Walsh.
Comment by amalia Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 9:08 am
Stones, that was pretty subdued for walsh.
Comment by Shore Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 9:09 am
I guess Walsh has never heard of ectopic pregnancies…
Comment by Chevy owner/Ford County Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 9:10 am
“I dunno…I think the issue in this election for me is “It’s the economy, stupid!” not “It’s abortion, stupid!””
@M…
The great thing about being a woman is you don’t have to choose when it comes to voting against Republicans on the issue of their opposition to abortion rights or the economy because they don’t support doing anything to rectify unequal pay for women either.
Comment by hisgirlfriday Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 9:21 am
My dad is a retired pediatric surgeon who spent many years working at Crook County Hospital. Recently he sent an email urging us to first and foremost vote in the upcoming election and offering his views on which candidate we should vote for. As part of the email, he wrote the following:
“… I am sure that some of you, out of religious conviction are opposed to abortion. You don’t remember, as I do, in the days prior to Roe-Wade when huge numbers of illegal abortions resulted in death, hemorrhage and sepsis in young women. During the 1950’s, there were as many as 50 women a day admitted to ward 41 in the County Hospital with bleeding or other complications. During that same period of time, and well into the ’60’s there were up to 100 abandoned, unwanted babies at any one time in the hospital. There is nothing more tragic than a teen age, unmarried girl having a baby–that spells ruin for two lives. My point is this–no matter what the government does or says, there will always be abortions and in many instances, abortion is the best choice. The only question is–will they be safe or not. The best way to prevent abortion is effective, readily available–and if I had my way, free contraception. …”
Comment by Huh? Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 9:25 am
With all the problems we share as a nation? Really?
Maybe somebody brighter than I am can tell me as a nation why we cannot come up with better candidates than this. Not just here…in many places. Just really bad choices.
Comment by Madison Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 9:35 am
Madison, because we keep voting for goof bags like Joe Walsh. We the people keep voting for them, they’ll keep running.
Comment by ZC Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 9:37 am
Years ago when Walsh challened Sid Yates in a much more liberal chicago-based congressional district, Walsh proudly ran as a pro-choice liberal Republican.
Did Walsh change or just his environment?
Comment by just sayin' Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 9:44 am
I too took Walsh’s ‘life of the mother’ comment as meaning it’s a given. I also expected Duckworth to say she’d be willing to sit down, and negotiate, and compromise on that, because it’s important, to her handlers, that she say that 80-90 more times.
Comment by Sideliner Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 9:45 am
But ZC, they are everywhere, and from both parties…just in Illinois we have Walsh, the Duckster, Gill, Plummer,JJJ,… And those are the ones not in jail? Think About Rod…crazy as an outhouse Rat, and we elect them time and again. At some point rational people have got to say. What’s the matter here? GI/GO folks!
Comment by Madison Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 9:47 am
But if he meant that it was a given, why did he say that “you can’t find one instance” of it being necessary?
Comment by TooManyJens Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 9:49 am
I think supporting abortion rights without restriction means that you trust women to make their own decisions about it, and that you think government should stay out of medical decisions. I think the “what, up to 9 months?” is a straw argument.
Comment by Melissa Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 9:52 am
So Tammy supports partial-birth abortion for any reason, or no reason at all.
SHHHH! Nobody mention or discuss that, ok?
Comment by TwoExtremists Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 9:53 am
Example of denial of abortion to save life of the mother. Recent news report about death of 16-year old with leukemia who was denied chemotherapy and abortion under Dominican Republic’s anti-abortion laws. This is the outcome of Walsh’s position.
Comment by Liz Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 9:56 am
This is all duckworth wanted coming out of last night which is sad.
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/gop-congressman-joe-walsh-abortion-exception-for-mothers-life-a-tool-for-abortions-anytime/
It’ll get covered all day on msnbc which will inspire another round of check writing from donors and give her a last piece of bait to lure some last minute money. Sometime after this election I’m waiting for some grownup journalist if they still make those to write how we got from congresscritters like hastert, rostenkowski, john porter, crane, hyde, yates, ect to the show me your abs schock, plummers, jerry wellers, duckworths, and jesse jacksons of the world being the new standard.
Comment by Shore Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 9:56 am
Well it’s not as if women are actually people you know.
And TwoExtremists–if there was a way to put you on ignore here, I’d do it. There’s no such thing as a partial birth abortion.
Comment by Cheryl44 Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 10:04 am
Shore, I would argue that the fact that we don’t have many grownup journalists anymore is a big factor in why politics is so terrible. There have always been plenty of uninformed people, but people are *mal*informed today in a way that seems new. If it’s not Fox News propagandizing and terrifying people about the Kenyan Muslim anti-colonialist usurper, it’s the Very Serious mainstream media refusing to call out lies and BS because they’ve decided their job is to do nothing more than repeat what each side says. They get the vapors if anyone suggests that they should actually help the public determine what’s true; why, that would make journalists “truth vigilantes,” in the words of former New York Times Public Editor Arthur Brisbane, and we can’t have that!
Comment by TooManyJens Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 10:12 am
Up to 9 months is, and should be, fine. If a woman carries a fetus inside of her for 8 months plus, then decides to get an abortion, she’s probably got a pretty darn good reason. Who am I to question it?
Huh? - Thank you for the anecdote. I’m far to young to have any experience of a pre-roe v wade world, but I’ve read about it, and I dread the idea of us going back to it.
Comment by jerry 101 Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 10:14 am
@Cheryl44 a big plus one!
Comment by amalia Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 10:15 am
A minor misstep by Walsh when trying to explain his view on abortion. I am not a fan or Joe Walsh but I have met and talked with him. As a result of my prior conversation with him, it is very obvious that he does not wish to put a woman’s life in danger. He needed to step back and look again at the words that came out of his mouth. He mis-spoke and thus distorted his true intent to convey his views. It was simply a “Joe Biden Moment”. Those things unfortunately happen. Just ask Joe.
Comment by Telling It Like It Is Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 10:17 am
@Cheryl44
- Ah yes…if you don’t like it, it doesn’t exist!
Keep that head in the sand, Cheryl. Its better than other locations where it could be stuck.
Comment by TwoExtremists Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 10:18 am
@Jerry 101 -
Why stop at 9 months? Why not kill a baby up until 1 month after its born? The parents would know what is best, right? They “probably got a pretty darn good reason”. Who are you to question it?
Comment by TwoExtremists Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 10:23 am
If only most of our voters had been around pre-Roe, then this wouldn’t even be a political possibility. That decision was greatly welcomed by almost every thinking person at the time, including many Catholic clergy. The doctor had it right —
We have always had abortions in our society; our choice is between safe medical care, and butchery or ignorant self-injury.
Comment by Anonymous Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 10:32 am
But how will white baby Jesus bless our country if we allow abortions? This country has been in decline since it was legalized and we need to get right with God if we want to get out of our problems.
(Poe’s Law: Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won’t mistake for the real thing. )
There are many people out there who, hand to God, say this and mean every word of it. And those people vote. For people like Joe Walsh, who will never actually make abortion illegal, but will happily say it to get their votes.
Until Americans decide to live in reality, where humans can be in control of their destiny and not trying to create a utpoia as envisioned 2000 years ago, we will have bad politicians and bad policy. It will be a lot nicer for folks to come to the realization on their own instead of after seeing their unworkable ideas destroy generations of Americans.
This is why the First Amendment exists.
Comment by Colossus Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 10:42 am
Joe Walsh is a man’s man, the Tea Party’s top Tea Partier.
He’s not going to let specific examples derail him from the larger truth.
He knows what he believes and he’s sticking to his guns.
If the facts contradict him, get new facts or attack the source, but never back down.
BTW, he’s going to be much more moderate when re-elected.
Comment by Carl Nyberg Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 10:46 am
The Fourteenth Amendment confers citizenship at birth and a whole bunch of protections kick-in that that point.
So, Two Extremists, the Constitution is pretty clear on why infanticide is not allowed.
Comment by Carl Nyberg Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 10:49 am
Cheryl44 and Amalia are factually correct.
Anon 10:32 was me, BTW.
Comment by walkinfool Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 10:50 am
Joe’s never heard of pre-eclampsia? Which is cured by delivery, the death of the mother, or the death of the baby?
It’s not unheard of for doctors to induce delivery before viability when the baby isn’t going to live and when the mother is pro-life. It’s abortion, but the mothers involved prefer to think of it as a miscarriage or a severely premature birth. I have a very Catholic relative who did just this. She would be insulted if you said it was abortion, but that’s what it was.
Comment by Lakeview Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 10:55 am
BTW, I have to congratulate Walsh and the Republican Party.
Walsh has been the perfect flare. He has behaved nutty enough to draw attention. But at the same time he’s campaigned effectively enough the Democrats are still nervous about this race.
Walsh has made other Republicans look moderate, even ones that clearly aren’t, like Rep. Peter Roskam. And Walsh’s nuttiness has sucked money and volunteers away from other races.
Walsh and the GOP have been very successful in this regard. I congratulate them.
Comment by Carl Nyberg Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 10:57 am
And: much better to have an abortion by whatever means early on than to carry a baby for nine months knowing full well that it won’t live. That would be beyond cruel.
Comment by Lakeview Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 10:59 am
Two extremists, you are religious person my friend? If so, then you will understand this comment- there’s only one judge and we ain’t it!
Comment by dang Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 11:10 am
Well, this is a little personal for me. My mother had an ectopic pregnancy terminated before I was born. If she was denied that health care, I wouldn’t be typing this comment.
Comment by 47th Ward Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 11:13 am
No one is going to bring a bill up for a vote on abortion. The topic is moot. Why is there even discussion about this issue. Unless the Supreme court will open up a reversal of Roe v. Wade, this is a distraction that neither Duckworth nor Walsh will have an impact upon.
Comment by Suburban Resident Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 11:24 am
Seems Joe Walsh and Todd Akin both should see neurologists about the connection between their brains and their mouths.
Comment by Cook County Commoner Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 11:56 am
Walsh continues to amaze me with his extremity. I can only expect he will lose far more votes than win with this policy.
That said, Duckworth saying, “pro-choice without restriction” is equally offensive. Late-term abortions are not ok.
As with most policy issues, you have crazy dude vs. political hack. Neither are fit for office. I would rather opt for “none of the above.”
Comment by Anonymous Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 11:57 am
===No one is going to bring a bill up for a vote on abortion. The topic is moot. Why is there even discussion about this issue. Unless the Supreme court will open up a reversal of Roe v. Wade, this is a distraction that neither Duckworth nor Walsh will have an impact upon.
1) Factually incorrect
http://www.guttmacher.org/media/inthenews/2012/01/05/endofyear.html
Regardless of your stance, the issues is very much in play right now.
2) The Supreme Court appears to be one vote from reversing Roe–that vote being Anthony Kennedy or any of the other four current justices who have supported Roe as precedent in the past.
There are also several bills introduced in Congress over the last year including the personhood bills that would even ban some forms of hormonal contraception.
Comment by ArchPundit Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 12:37 pm
==”I dunno…I think the issue in this election for me is “It’s the economy, stupid!” not “It’s abortion, stupid!”===
The economy isn’t really an issue for most on the right. Their stocks are doing great, their corporations are sitting on cash, they are receiving record bonuses, their failed financial schemes were bailed out, and there subjects all have locked in their entitlements. All that is left is ideology and attacks on others.
Comment by Crime Fighter Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 12:39 pm
If Aiken and Walsh are right, then the US military must have some super-secret research facility where scientists attempt to reproduce — no pun intended — the female body’s amazing feats.
Block insemination through a chemical response triggered by rape? No problem. Overcome pre-eclampsia and ectopic pregnancies because, you know, abortion is just wrong? Check. Can the ability to re-form perfect tissue, Terminator-style, after taking bullet be far behind??
Comment by Way South of the Border Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 1:21 pm
I’m not sure if anyone knows where Roe is currently, not until Roberts and Alito cast a vote. But, concede that it could be. Roberts has surprised us in the past .
Re candidates for office, I’d say the overwhelming crush / need to be a constant fundraiser / telemarketer these days probably does discourage some good people from running, they just can’t take the constant money treadmill. So there’s that. These folks spend a ridiculous amount of time on the phone asking millionaires for cash.
Comment by ZC Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 1:46 pm
@dang - Then you can’t judge Susan Smith and other adults who kill their children, either.
If fact, by your logic, there should be no laws at all since they require judgement by your fellow man. Enjoy anarchy.
Comment by TwoExtremists Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 2:25 pm
–The idea there is some kind of modern medical technology or procedure that has made full-term pregnancies suddenly perfectly safe for all women is news to Dr. Carrie Terrell, an ob-gyn and chief of staff at the University of Minnesota Medical Center.–
Doctors — what do they know about advances in medical science and technology? We’re talking Congressmen here!
Comment by wordslinger Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 3:53 pm
sorry about the debate review last night. I watched it pretty closely and didn’t think anything was that big of a deal but I pretty clearly screwed up. What’s interesting is that this question which ignited this “national firestorm” was literally the last one asked in what for them was a pretty unnewsworthy and civil debate. Goes to show the need to watch and follow every last detail of stuff.
my bad.
Comment by Shore Friday, Oct 19, 12 @ 5:01 pm