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* The Illinois State Rifle Association has instructed its members to crash yet another legislative forum, this one being held by Rep. Marty Moylan (D-Des Plaines)…
URGENT ALERT – YOUR ACTION NEEDED
GUN GRABBER REP. MARTY MOYLAN TO HOLD TOWN HALL MEETING
YOU NEED TO BE THERE
* The ISRA wants to make sure that Moylan gets “tough questions”…
Don’t let him hide behind words like “reasonable,” or “common sense.”
Yes, because reason and common sense are such un-American concepts.
posted by Rich Miller
Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 9:51 am
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I’m sure it helps in raising money from the faithful, but the tactics certainly haven’t done anything in influencing state gun laws.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 9:58 am
While I do think ISRA (of which I am a member) goes too far in their Calls for Action… I don’t see anything wrong with saying don’t let the Mayor hide behind words like “reasonable” or “common sense.” Elected and appointed officials, outside of this issue, love to say policies are “reasonable” and of “common sense” even when they are not.
Comment by Just Observing Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 10:03 am
do they have any other items on their agenda? it is, after all, the political season, so I’m always wondering if anything more is up in an area where there is screaming. anything up out there?
Comment by Amalia Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 10:04 am
Not reasonable, JO, or just not reasonable to you?
Comment by Apple Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 10:13 am
“Don’t let him hide” - that’s what I don’t like.
Do politicians bob and weave and evade specific answers? of course they do all the time. What should you do about that? Make a judgement, decide you think that person is dishonest, fine. But each of us don’t have the option to “let” a person evade a question or not. We can’t control bully or intimidate anyone into answering or not answering a question.
I was at a town hall about ComEd with a former legislator. The IGOLD crowd from outside of the district flooded the place. the forum was about electricity - totally out of place and a major disservice to this legislator’s actual constituents who had real problems and valid questions they needed to ask.
Comment by siriusly Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 10:13 am
Love the use of the term “gun grabber.”
And then these same people will cry like babies when people call them “gun nuts.”
Only they can toss around names, according to them.
Comment by Skeeter Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 10:19 am
They need to hire someone who isnt with the cause to review their releases.
Comment by Lil Squeezy Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 10:22 am
Do ISRA people show up at these forums?
Or do they get scared that they will have to leave their neighborhoods?
Comment by Carl Nyberg Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 10:22 am
How about “for the children,” or ” law.”
Those concepts seem to work well when applied to the legislative process.
Comment by Brian Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 10:23 am
“–insert victim’s name here– law”.
Caret symbols didn’t get posted.
Comment by Brian Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 10:24 am
Serious question — when they show up (as they claim to do), does it have any persuasive power, or does it just annoy people?
A few of us like to laugh at releases that, to us, seem twisted, but are they effective in getting a Rep to vote a certain way?
Comment by Skeeter Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 10:28 am
===Or do they get scared that they will have to leave their neighborhoods? ===
Since they’re traveling in a pack, maybe they won’t be so frightened.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 10:28 am
=== Love the use of the term “gun grabber.”
And then these same people will cry like babies when people call them “gun nuts.” ===
Some of us find both equally offensive.
Comment by Ken_in_Aurora Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 10:28 am
Why not!! You have Bloomberg and the like doing the same thing, to support their side.
Comment by highspeed Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 10:29 am
Hmmm, Word Rich and Skooter all posting on gun issues at a fever pitch - looks like a good day for another trip to the gun shops.
Comment by A Citizen Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 10:36 am
I’m with you on that Ken, but my point was that the ISRA doesn’t feel that way.
Comment by Skeeter Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 10:36 am
>>>>>> They need to hire someone who isnt with the cause to review their releases.
Duhlinky’s rules for rubes, #7:
Always write your opinion and action pieces to appeal to your opposition, and never use ridicule or hyperbole.
Comment by John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 10:36 am
–Don’t let him hide behind words like “reasonable,” or “common sense.”–
Is this an acknowledgement that they are against reasonable and common sense gun laws? I mean, I think they are, but are they actually admitting it?
Comment by Ahoy! Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 10:44 am
They just keep getting better at this.
Comment by Chavez-respecting Obamist Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 10:53 am
Speaker Madigan said ISRA has a “real bad attitude” over the CCW legislation. I think stunts like this prove his point.
Comment by 47th Ward Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 10:55 am
===Looks like a good day for another trip to the gun shops. ===
Awww. Did we hurt your wittle fee-fees?
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 10:55 am
Maybe he should hide behind useful and productive concepts such as gun grabber.
“Don’t let him hide behind words like “reasonable,” or “common sense.”
Comment by AFSCME Steward Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 11:08 am
Reasonable and Common Sense are great catch phrases, but often they are used to preface something that may be neither.
“Common Sense” No one ‘needs’ an AR-15.
Well ‘common sense’ also says no one NEEDS a corvette. There are laws that say they cant drive any faster on the street than anyone else and excessive speed is a huge factor in auto accidents and deaths.
Yet we dont ban corvettes.
Often an assault weapons ban is called common sense by those wishing to ban them and it is meant to say ‘if you dont agree with me on this you are the one out of the mainstream’.
I think CCW shall issue is common sense. Many will disagree. We should not use those words on either side because neither OWNS what is common sense no matter how many times you repeat it.
Comment by RonOglesby Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 11:09 am
@47th - Where and when did MJM make the “real bad attitude” statement. Not disputing, just would like to read piece.
Comment by Chris Sale Fan Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 11:10 am
CSF, he made the comment while being interviewed by Jak Tichenor. Use the search function to find it.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 11:14 am
Ron,
I don’t know of anybody who argues that we don’t “need” a certain weapon. If it was just about need, then it would be none of anybody’s business.
The argument made is that we are all significantly safer if people don’t have access to things that have no real purpose other than killing a lot of people.
For various reasons I’m not for a ban on assault weapons, but you may want to try to understand the argument that the other side is making.
Comment by Skeeter Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 11:15 am
===I don’t know of anybody who argues that we don’t “need” a certain weapon.===
It’s used all the time, mainly by people who believe the 2nd Amendment ought to be repealed.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 11:18 am
Moylan believes in having a two way conversation, so don’t fear some kind of ISRA conciliabule at the bouleuterion.
Comment by benji Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 11:20 am
*** Reasonable and Common Sense are great catch phrases, but often they are used to preface something that may be neither. ***
+1 RonOglesby. Anytime someone tells me that it is “simply common sense”, “perfectly reasonable” or “for the children”, my BS alarm goes off.
Comment by Slick Willy Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 11:21 am
===We should not use those words on either side because neither OWNS what is common sense no matter how many times you repeat it. ===
Yeah, OK. Weasel words. Do you think that ISRA call to action is reasonable and full of common sense? If you do, then you have neither.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 11:22 am
*** I don’t know of anybody who argues that we don’t “need” a certain weapon. ***
Really? People regularly argue “need” when they are tryint to take something away from you. Some classic examples include, “You do not need an assault rifle to hunt deer” and the Governor of New York yelling at a press conference announcing a new law banning 10 round magazines that “You do not need 10 bullets to hunt Dee-ah!”.
Comment by Slick Willy Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 11:25 am
Do I hear and echo in here?
Comment by John A Logan Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 11:27 am
- benji - Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 11:20 am:
Wow - someone who actually read all those “It Pays to Increase your Word Power” columns in Reader’s Digest!
;)
Comment by Ken_in_Aurora Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 11:27 am
*** Do you think that ISRA call to action is reasonable and full of common sense? ***
Respectfully disagree. If the call is to go and disrupt the proceeding, than they are out of line. I see nothing wrong with letting people know that a rep with a history of anti-gun legislation is holding a town hall meeting and to be there to protect your cosntitutional rights or hold their feet to the fire. The trick is in how your supporters do it. Intelligent, respectful and without hyperbole is always the best way. Sadly, when it comes to guns, you rarely see it - from either side of the argument.
Comment by Slick Willy Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 11:29 am
On the policy grounds, the Democratic proposals rarely do more than be annoying at the margins.
On the other side, the gun culture people who are mostly fearful and easily manipulated by the firearms industry do not accept the notion that government should be regulating firearms in a way that provides a free and secure society.
It’s like they haven’t read the first half of the Second Amendment, “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”
So, the easily manipulated/fearful people (not “gun nuts”) kinda miss the point of the Second Amendment.
People who are basically fearful don’t have good critical thinking skills.
But it’s time to stop pretending the fearful and easily manipulated are negotiating in good faith. They are a vocal minority who choose not to participate in this discussion in a constructive manner.
They should be ignored.
Comment by Carl Nyberg Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 11:36 am
Interestingly, a Des Plaines gun range — Maxon — had Moylan’s sign in its window during the 2012 campaign. I bet they regret that now!
Comment by NW Suburbanite Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 11:38 am
@Carl:
>>>>>>>It’s like they haven’t read the first half of the Second Amendment
The highest court in the land has said that is little more than windows dressing.
Comment by John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 11:43 am
Common sense?
Assault Rifle vs. Sporting Rifle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C-CLsMRcA0
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 11:53 am
Really?!?
It seems like the ISRA is doing what they can to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. They are, presumably, able to negotiate their CCW bill from a good starting position, but ticking people off will just limit the gains they can make. If they would sit down and act reasonable, they might get a good bill that lots of folks can support. Why not sit back and let their opponents look unreasonable? This kind of action does not build the type of public support they need, especially to override home rule and get “shall issue” passed.
Comment by Pot calling kettle Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 12:03 pm
I got the email notice from the ISRA too, but I wasn’t shocked by it like Rich seems to have been. I didn’t like the request to have the ISRA members wear their hats and tee shirts to the meeting, but that has become the standard practice much to my distress. To argue that ISRA members should not let Rep Moylan “hide behind words like reasonable or common sense” is not a problem in my opinion. Because one person’s common sense gun control proposal is another person’s direct encroachment on the 2nd amendment.
But let’s be clear here Rep Moylan already defeated a gun rights supporter when he beat Republican Susan Sweeney in their race for the 55th District state House seat. Moylan’s position on the issue of concealed carry was pretty well vetted in that campaign, and Moylan won getting 19,438 or 53% of the vote and Sweeney with 17,161 or 47%. So honestly, whether or not we like Moylan’s position on gun issues which I do not, trying to out him is pointless, he ran on a gun control platform.
I think there are some IBEW and other union workers who voted for Moylan because he was pro-labor, but who are also gun rights supporters and feel betrayed. Well if they followed the campaign they would have seen clearly Moylan wasn’t in the gun rights camp. Sometimes voting for the good working class guy just doesn’t work because not all working class people support concealed carry. But then again maybe people voted for Moylan in spite of his gun control position because he was pro-labor.
Comment by Rod Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 12:10 pm
>>>>> If they would sit down and act reasonable
to give the other side a chance to ban the pistols and rifles that “no one needs to hunt ducks” in order to save the children.
Comment by John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 12:34 pm
– Well ‘common sense’ also says no one NEEDS a corvette. There are laws that say they can’t drive any faster on the street than anyone else and excessive speed is a huge factor in auto accidents and deaths. Yet we don’t ban Corvettes. –
The above statement is a false equivalency argument. If one wants to use motor vehicles as an analogy then let us put it in the proper context. One should look at the various (and numerous) motor vehicle rules and regulations on size, weight, height, location, condition of the operator, etc., which for the most part are reasonable, common sense, and actually do improve public safety on the streets and highways. For example while you can drive a Corvette on the public streets but you cannot drive a massive mining dump truck. I would also posit few would argue with the restriction on the latter.
Comment by HGW XX/7 Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 12:45 pm
RonOglesby - I like your automobile analogy. We have to register automobiles. We also lock them and need keys to operate them. We also take away the right to operate them from people who abuse that right.
I’m totally fine with treating gun ownership the way we treat car ownership. Thank you for suggesting that Ron Oglesby.
Comment by siriusly Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 1:00 pm
===“reasonable,” or “common sense.”===
IMO-
It is reasonable that entities meet their contractual obligations.
It is reasonable we leave a clean environment for our grandchildren.
It is reasonable that we look for more efficient uses of our energy resources.
It is reasonable to understand the climate is changing.
IMO- all of these examples are common sense, but to some these statements can be construed as radical thinking.
Comment by Endangered Moderate Species Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 1:56 pm
Are these guys ever not frothing and flinging spit everywhere? Do they say to their child, “OK SON, I’LL PICK YOU UP FROM SCHOOL AT 3?” Or, “HONEY, CAN YOU MAKE YOUR FABULOUS CHICKEN TETRAZZINI CASSEROLE FOR DINNER TONIGHT?”
It’s cute, but maybe people wouldn’t call them nuts if they weren’t chasing shadows and yelling all the time.
Comment by TwoFeetThick Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 2:00 pm
@ Endangered Moderate Species -
It has been my life experience that if one trims off both far extremes of the spectrum, most people do not disagree on the ultimate ends.
They disagree greatly on the means to achieve them (as well as the reasons we find ourselves in any given prediciment).
Comment by titan Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 2:14 pm
C’mon! How many children do you know that can make Chicken Tetrazzini?
Comment by benji Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 2:15 pm
It’s interesting that Scalia, who made-up the individual right to bear arms out of the 2nd Amendment, raised an issue in today’s oral argument on same gender marriage about “creating some new right” when the argument was about equal protection.
Comment by D P Gumby Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 2:27 pm
Ahhhhhh, the use of words and perspective. Gun Grabbers is a totally legit phrase, that can and should be used by those who believe in the 2nd Amendmant. On the other side of the aisle, Assault Weapon is totally a legit phrase from those that don’t feel the same way. That’s why we have the Supremes, as neither side never seems to be able to agree… On ANYTHING!
Comment by Fan Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 3:17 pm
Really now, don’t they have anything bettter to do than to semi-try to pseudo-intimidate a single Democratic Legislator who, if he wasn’t going to vote in alignment with their positions anyway, will somehow feel compelled or pressured into doing so as a result of their battery of questions?
Comment by Just The Way It Is One Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 3:18 pm
I don’t understand why the legislators even bother with these “town hall” meetings. There is no law mandating that they be held.
Furthermore, there is nothing “town hall” about them, at least in the original sense of how they were held by small communities in New England to make laws.
Since the Tea Party came into existence, “town halls” have been used to shout down and intimidate people with a different opinion.
Comment by low level Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 4:56 pm
When ever we hear the words “reasonable” and “common sense” applied to the words “gun control” by an Illinois Democrats we have to raise an eyebrow. After all Mayor Daley, Rahm Emanuel, and many Illinois Democrats described Chicago’s 1982 handgun ban as “reasonable” but the U.S. Supreme Court deemed owning a handgun for self-defense a civil right. Just a reminder: when a high ranking made member of the Mob pushed through a handgun through the legislative process this isn’t “reasonable” but RICO.
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2010/03/chicagos_handgun_ban_and_rico.html
Comment by Steve Bartin Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 5:15 pm
=== Since the Tea Party came into existence, “town halls” have been used to shout down and intimidate people with a different opinion. ===
BS town hall meetings well predate the tea party.
Comment by Just Observing Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 5:19 pm
Come to think of it, I have never seen Unions shout down or intimidate anyone…. said no one ever. Townhalls or anywhere.
Comment by Fan Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 5:52 pm
is Moylan supporting a candidate in the Des Plaines Mayor’s race? any other races where he made an endorsement? are ISRA meetings designed to turn up action to affect local elections? just wondering since there is an election in Des Plaines involving a former Nekritz staffer.
Comment by Amalia Tuesday, Mar 26, 13 @ 6:38 pm