Capitol Fax.com - Your Illinois News Radar

Question of the day

Posted in:

Illinois

* This warning has appeared above the comment box for years…

Inappropriate or excessively rabid comments, gratuitous insults and “rumors” will be deleted or held for moderation. Profanity is absolutely not acceptable in any form. “Sock puppetry” is forbidden. All violators risk permanent banishment without warning and may be blocked from accessing this site. Also, please try to be a little bit original.

Today, I added a new line…

In other words, do your best to be civilized and smart.

* The Question: How do you think you can be more “civilized and smart” in comments?

posted by Rich Miller
Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 11:17 am

Comments

Heed the better angels of our nature and eschew ad hominem arguments.

Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 11:19 am
Just comment ditto to everything RNUG and Wordslinger post–they set the bar IMHO.

Comment by Huggybunny Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 11:23 am
No comments after the third drink.

– MrJM

Comment by MrJM Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 11:23 am
Understand that if you can’t intelligently argue both sides of an issue, you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about.

Comment by ChrisB Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 11:27 am
Refrain from discussions of politics, religion, and guns.

Comment by A Citizen Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 11:28 am
===How do you think you can be more “civilized and smart” in comments?===

Less snark, more Cannoli?

I have to think about this, no snark …

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 11:30 am
Good advice MrJM. I think it’s also important not to abuse the anonymity that Rich allows us. It’s easy for cowards to talk smack knowing they’ll never be held accountable. It’s a lot harder to pause before commenting and ask yourself if you’d want others to know it was really YOU writing that.

If you wouldn’t put your real name behind a comment, we’d all be better served if you merely thought it and didn’t write it here.

Comment by 47th Ward Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 11:31 am
You don’t have to reply to a comment that takes exception to your previous post. Agree to disagree.

Comment by Darienite Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 11:33 am
Ok, ok I will stop suggesting that everybody who lives downstate lacks indoor plumbing.

My bad.

Comment by Skeeter Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 11:34 am
Subscribe

Comment by Just Me Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 11:36 am
What MJM and 47 said. Also, don’t feed the trolls.

Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 11:37 am
===You don’t have to reply to a comment that takes exception to your previous post. Agree to disagree.===

lol, as I reply, sorry.

What makes this place so great is the exchange of ideas, and, when done right with Moderation by Rich and sane responses by bothor all parties, that is what makes THIS place the place to be.

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 11:38 am
I stand by my above post 100% with this addendum …

===Also, don’t feed the trolls.===

- wordslinger -, always teaching

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 11:39 am
We are about certain that it would harder for us to be smarter, but more civilized is a possibility.
We could drop all the nick names — Billboards, WhackyJack, CousinBrucey, Commando MakeItUp etc. — but that takes some of life out of this blog that tries to bring life to the world of politics.
We shall give it a try.

Comment by CircularFiringSquad Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 11:41 am
Ditto ChrisB.

I met former Sen. Dave Sullivan a few times while he was in office. I disagreed w/ many of his positions but he made a point of not just understanding the multiple sides of issues. He worked to put the various activists and lobbyists on the spot by asking them to articulate the other sides’ point of view.

Comment by G. Willickers Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 11:41 am
For the most part, just read over what you just wrote before hitting “Say It!”

Helps with grammar too

Comment by Verbal Kint Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 11:42 am
Darienite hit it on the head as far as I am concerned. Rarely are you going to convince someone to change their opinion based on an anonymous post. It’s OK to agree to disagree and allow someone else to have the last word.

Comment by Stones Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 11:43 am
Disagreement is a great tool, it shapes agreement. But some of the posts Tuesday re guns, and the late news/rumor re Bivins, was disheartening. Not having the same view on an issue does not equal an attack on your view.

Don’t take it as such.

And I like ChrisB above…learn the view and positives of the position you don’t hold.

Comment by Mongo Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 11:43 am
- CircularFiringSquad -,

Step away from the keyboards! Half of the fun is also being part of a community with “nuggets” like CFS’s Translator.

Rich’s Shop, but I would miss CFS’s “flavor”…

I am only speaking for me.

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 11:45 am
Probably by typing with my pinky fingers extended elegantly.

Comment by Happy Returns Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 11:46 am
Can’t say how many times I’ve written a response and then wondered if Rich might reply…and I’d feel so stupid afterwards. So now I write it, leave it for a bit, come back and read it with “Rich” eyes (if that’s possible) and almost always…delete it. (Go easy on me, Rich, I was a fellow Wheaton owner!) I can only dream of being as sassy and glib as all your other regulars. So love the blog.

Comment by fan of cap fax Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 11:48 am
Imagine that you are talking to people you may disagree with in person. Helps with the anonymous tough guy syndrome on the net.

Comment by Wumpus Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 11:56 am
I think this is one of the few remaining blogs that doesn’t ask for a DNA sample before posting.

Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 11:56 am
I’m all for civility and smartitude, but no comments after the third drink? The board would be a ghost town by 1 p.m. most days!

Comment by ChicagoR Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 12:04 pm
Follow the lead of the Daily Herald and make users comment via facebook. LOL!

Comment by Ben Marc*m Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 12:16 pm
Remembering that not EVERYONE disagrees with you.

Comment by Cincinnatus Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 12:19 pm
Be honest about the ongoing political divide between those who:

(A) See government (all government) as the great oppressor of liberty, and

(B) Those who see government as a frail human institution that is often flawed but nonetheless remains necessary to restrain private greed and aggression.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/burke-not-buckley/

In my opinion, the most egregious incivilities arise (here and elsewhere) when people who at odds on the above issue fail to address the core of their differences.

Comment by Bill White Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 12:22 pm
Before you attack somebody’s position, read through all the comments.

Maybe I’m whining, but it seemed like there were a lot of attacks on out of context statements on the gun threads.

And also, can we just drop the whole “downstaters who hate Chicago/think it is corrupt/destroying Illinois forever” and the “Chicago residents who don’t like/don’t care/blame downstate.” Yes, certain areas of this state are not fond of each other. We get it. But it gets boring.

Comment by HenryVK Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 12:30 pm
Just continue being the awesome and humble person I am….

Also don’t feel the trolls

Comment by OneMan Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 12:32 pm
~Remembering that not EVERYONE disagrees with you.~

Also remember it’s entirely possible to agree with someone from the other side of the spectrum. Now and then.

Comment by Chavez-respecting Obamist Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 12:32 pm
I noticed that Rich inserted “comment deleted by Rich Miller” or similar verbage recently. I like that. So even when we don’t get to read the deleted text, we can see at what point in the thread the offending comment was made and the nickname used.

I think the commenters here are generally pretty respectful in comparison to other sites. And usually smarter with one or two notable exceptions.

Comment by Jake from Elwood Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 12:54 pm
One way to keep things civil is to focus the argument on the subject matter; don’t address and criticize individual personalities no matter how wrong you may think they are.

Don’t give in to trolls who just want attention.

Comment by Wensicia Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 12:54 pm
Jake, if I had the time, I’d do that more often. I just don’t have the time.

Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 12:56 pm
Rich: I understand. Just wanted to point it out to the class and let you know that we are paying attention…

Comment by Jake from Elwood Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 1:03 pm
I try to go with “Don’t say anything you would not want your preacher, spouse or mother to know you said.”

Comment by McLean Farmboy Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 1:08 pm
I could be more civilized if everyone would just agree with me.

Comment by Just Observing Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 1:15 pm
McLean, good advice, but I can get in trouble with Rich and others on here, even if I satisfied all of those parties. Best way? DO NOT POST… but that’s no fun. I always try to be civilized, but my interpretation of “smart” is sometimes different from others (especially anti-gunners)…

And I agree that I liked the idea of “Removed by Rich Miller”.

Comment by downstate commissioner Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 1:19 pm
@ Wensicia — I’m violating your suggestion by pointing it out, but I think it’s ok to comment upon comments made by others, b/c they are sometimes more important than the original post.

I’ve only recently started commenting, but I imagine more will show up. The boards at SJ-R were full of contempt for their new commenting policy and for shout-outs to CFB as the better news site anyway.

Comment by xxtofer Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 1:20 pm
By not using phrases like “Don’t.Feed.The.Trolls?”

Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 1:31 pm
How about not writing as if you have a personal vendetta against someone when you and/or they have NO clue as to who “they” are and therefore, why they’d choose to continue to jump all over you on the blog?

Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 1:33 pm
“Don’t.Feed.The.Trolls?”

- wordslinger - taught me that, and - wordslinger - is right. Don’t.Feed.The.Trolls.

Makes the place better.

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 1:37 pm
Do. Not. Feed. Trolls.

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 1:40 pm
edit, edit, edit.

Comment by Amalia Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 1:41 pm
=No comments after the third drink.=

Yeah. Buddies shouldn’t let their friends drink and blog.

Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 1:41 pm
Proper grammar, spelling and punctuation certainly adds to the intelligence level of any discussion. Plus knowing some background on the topic before frothing off at the mouth helps too. And not invoking Godwin’s Law.

Comment by Skeptic Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 1:43 pm
No comments before the third drink.

Comment by justbabs Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 1:44 pm
I try and lift my pinky whe typoing

Comment by Ghost Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 1:44 pm
Ditto what Wensicia said.

Also, use attribution as much as possible when posing things as “facts.” I appreciate the opportunity to check out the sources provided by commenters.

Don’t use a pseudonym that tries to set your comments off as having more legitimacy than others.

Comment by Norseman Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 1:59 pm
People would do well to stay away from the boring and simplistic “talking points” and slogans both as posters and as responses to posters. If you read a great gotcha somewhere else that you think makes your point in aces it’s very, very likely that most of the other commenters and lurkers here have already seen it at least once , too. Don’t insult our intelligence by making us read it over and over again.

Comment by Responsa Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 2:05 pm
When in doubt google before commenting especially if the comment is a question.

Comment by 10th Indy Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 2:06 pm
By plagiarizing from Steve Schnorf?

Comment by Anon. Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 2:10 pm
=I try and lift my pinky whe typoing=

I’ve noticed, Ghost, and quite admirable it is.

Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 2:43 pm
Read up on logical fallacies, especially staw men and red herrings. Check your argument against these definitions before posting.

Comment by Small Town Liberal Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 2:46 pm
=Don’t insult our intelligence by making us read it over and over again.+

I agree. Sometimes it seems as if certain posters are either testing their messages here on us (which they should probably reconsider) and/or are trying to drill their “talking points” or what they believe are witty “sayings” into our heads by repeating them over and over again.

That is quite…well, there are quite a few words to describe that practice, if intentional.

Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 2:50 pm
By and large most bloggers on this blog seem pretty smart.I don’t read that many cheap shots.

Comment by mokenavince Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 2:54 pm
STL, what is the formal definition of a “red herring” and can you provide an example of when it was used incorrectly here? I just used it recently on another thread to indicate that the focus on a specific “case” could be a red herring for the legislation itself (meaning to say that focusing or choosing to “feature” a case for a much broader purpose did it no justice).

Did I use the term incorrectly, and if so, what is the term that should be applied?

Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 2:56 pm
To a certain extent, I think that if Rich has never deleted one of your comments, your probably not passionate enough about your views.

Comment by John A Logan Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 2:58 pm
The part about being smart i like because sometimes it seems that people (not necessarily on CapFax) are just regurgitating talking points and soundbites. What i enjoy about CapFax is how issues can be thoroughly vetted by people who are paying attention to politics, not just folks who vote in presidential elections. The caliber of eyes and ideas on this blog is one of its best assets IMO.

Comment by dan linn Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 3:07 pm
Smart and snark can coexist if well-balanced. Thing is, it’s too easy, especially after the third drink, second Oxy (just kidding Rich!) being on the mobile, in a hurry, etc. to take a quick swing at the post or comments.
Take a breath, proofread, mull it over.

PS: please don’t drop the names CFS, I just updated my decoder ring.

Comment by Arthur Andersen Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 3:08 pm
Trolls, if you are wondering how to spot one… never answer direct questions, they just ramble on and on, hoping for any interaction…Let them embarrass themselves, its more fun that way.

Rich gives great advice too, “And please take a half second to come up with a nickname. It makes following the posts easier for everyone… Thanks”

There are tons of words in the Dictonary…

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 3:29 pm
No comments before the third drink.

Comment by Michael Westen Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 3:39 pm
Try to always review for courtesy, fairness, and best information before you send.

If you feel like making an ad hominem attack, take another breath and delete.

Occasionally thank or praise those who disagree with you.

[Of course, I could do better with my own suggestions.]

Comment by walkinfool Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 4:08 pm
==I think it’s ok to comment upon comments made by others==

I think so, too, but stick to the comment for your approval, disapproval, or discussion of the point. No need to negatively personalize your response.

Comment by Wensicia Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 4:21 pm
- STL, what is the formal definition of a “red herring” and can you provide an example of when it was used incorrectly here? -

It’s an irrelevant distraction from the topic. I don’t know when the term itself has been used incorrectly, but there are plenty of red herrings tossed out most weeks. The most recent I can think of is the argument that medical marijuana will lead to more impaired drivers.

Comment by Small Town Liberal Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 4:40 pm
Agreed Proof Reading makes your comment more intelligent.

As far as Civilized realizing that the people here may disagree with you however that doesn’t mean that they haven’t thought about and have a reasonable opinion about the issues involved. Insulting people who have their own opinion because they disagree with yours is not only uncivilized it is blatantly rude.

Comment by Mason born Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 4:41 pm
you have your favorites. you are in control. I did not send you the 500 dollars. money money money.

Comment by inker Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 4:51 pm
1. No comments please that you’ve heard on any talk radio program. Or on cable news. Be original.

2. Any comments longer than a couple of sentences should be typed into a word processor, spell checked and proofed, then pasted into the Cap Fax comment box.

3. Having said that, the regular commenters here are among the best online. I count on learning a few things when I spend time here.

4. I only wish I could get away with commenting while at work…. it would be much more timely.

Comment by DuPage Dave Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 6:08 pm
Well, “in other words” is really just another way of saying to do, or not do, noted above! The civilized part is in some ways just referring to good, old-fashioned decency, respect, and courtesy expected of your average, run of the mill American adult. Smart is self-explanatory, but as others above have at leas inferred, everybody has a “bad hair day” here and there, and may indeed just say something not-very-well-informed, not dumb but not very reflective of intelligent or very defensible based on some kind of fact or knowledge, or…yes, just plain dumb or stupid! But what the hey–NObody’s perfect!

So…keepin’ us on our toes a bit more, ey Rich? That’s fine and more so, it’s your Blog–therefore, your Prerogative. Sometimes I chuckle to myself inwardly, when you just insert “Discuss” after a Post, it reminds me of being in College when the Professor just wanted to hear students comment at least reasonably intelligently, interestingly or at least showing interest in providing some kind of decent opinion related to the subject at hand so he or she’d direct the class to “Discuss” it while he or she would carefully observe–or when they’d ask an Important Test Question, state the problem/issue, and then for the Answer on the Test, merely state “Discuss” to see where the student would go with it…! It’s fun to approach it that way, actually.

Comment by Just The Way It Is One Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 8:23 pm
I am, generally speaking, much too humble and slow to promote myself.

I resolve to fix that.

Comment by Will Caskey Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 8:28 pm
Don’t take yourself too seriously, don’t be easily offended, and have a sense of humor.

Comment by Non-ISRA Member Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 10:37 pm
Super late to the party, but gotta say, I agree with all sentiments that referenced how much the drive by reader can learn with a single stop by this blog on any given day.

Also, truly stupid comments get deleted because the purveyor of this blog works tirelessly to maintain its integrity. Its integrity comes from its commentors and their integrity comes from the respect they have for the purveyor.

Take the compliment, leave the cannoli.

Comment by So. ILL Thursday, Apr 25, 13 @ 11:58 pm
Stick to the original questions and subjects. Don’t troll through the comments of others feeling a need to comment on the commenters. Leave folks alone, let them speak. Do you business, wash your hands, then leave. Stop staring at the other guys with a ruler, trying to start an argument.

Be original. We got guys endlessly reguritating and pontificating like they think they are telling us something we hadn’t heard or read for decades.

Try to avoid multiple postings on the same thread. Don’t dominate and ruin a thread by hanging on it like a vulture.

Comment by VanillaMan Friday, Apr 26, 13 @ 12:05 am
A couple more ideas as this winds down.
Admit it when you are wrong-even better before someone calls you on it (see Andersen, A. 9:57 pm 4/25/13 in re: Chapin Rose bill.)
Figure out some of the “subject matter experts” here before you fire a broadside at what they have to say. Steve Schnorf on budgets, state finances and bonds for example. RNUG and AA know a bit about pension issues or at least we know where to look it up.
Peace be with you all.

Comment by Arthur Andersen Friday, Apr 26, 13 @ 7:11 am
1) Be willing to consider the other side’s point of view.

2) Avoid logical fallacies (as pointed out by STL)
a) Ad Hominems attacks should be avoided at all costs. Attack the argument, not the person making it.

3) Step away from the conversation if you find yourself getting upset.

4) Be specific in your responses and where appropriate back up your sources.

5) Don’t continually repeat the same arguments.

Most of it has been said before, but it bears repeating. Rich, I would recommend picking a couple of people you trust to help you moderate the comments. As someone who admins a forum for reasonable discussion of potentially controversial issues, I’ve found that finding levelheaded people to help keep order is essential. I see a lot of the same things I like in my forum community present here, foremost among them a sense of pride in providing a venue for intelligent discussion. I think that social norms of this sort go a long way towards preventing problems. However, in my experience fair and responsible moderation is an essential part of this culture that helps newcomers acclimate and helps nip problems in the bud. Unfortunately, such moderation requires extra help, and you have to be sure that the people you pick have the same understanding of what is and is not appropriate.

Sorry if that was a bit rambling, it has been a long day.
Best,
Moose

Comment by Moose Monday, Apr 29, 13 @ 9:41 pm

Add a comment

Sorry, comments are closed at this time.

Previous Post: It ain’t that easy
Next Post: More Illinois bashing

Last 10 posts:

Reader comments closed for the weekend (04-26)
Isabel’s afternoon briefing (04-26)
Things that make you go 'Hmm' (04-26)
Did Dan Proft’s independent expenditure PAC illegally coordinate with Bailey's campaign? The case will go before the Illinois Elections Board next week (04-26)
PJM's massive fail (04-26)
$117.7B In Economic Activity: Illinois Hospitals Are Essential To Communities And Families (04-26)
It’s just a bill (04-26)
Showcasing The Retailers Who Make Illinois Work (04-26)
Open thread (04-26)
Isabel’s morning briefing (04-26)