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* From the AP…
Illinois will lower the required age that students must attend school under legislation signed Sunday by Gov. Pat Quinn.
The law, which takes effect in the 2014-2015 school year, lowers the compulsory age from 7 to 6, a move state officials said puts Illinois in line with about half of U.S. states.
“It’s all about getting an early start on education,” Quinn said at an elementary school on the city’s West Side. He spoke a day before hundreds of thousands of Chicago Public Schools students are expected to start the first day of classes. […]
Opponents, including, Republicans, had questioned the cost of the change. State officials have estimated that lowering the age would cost roughly $28 million.
* The home schooler lobby opposed the bill and encouraged calls to legislators last spring…
When you call your representative, your message can be as simple as: “Please vote ‘no’ on HB 2762. It would lower the age of compulsory school attendance from 7 to 6 and make some young adults attend school even after high school graduation. Parents, not the government, know when it’s best for their young child to start formal education. Illinois is in financial trouble. It’s the wrong time to expand an expensive program.”
* The Question: Do you agree with this new law? Take the poll and then explain your answer in comments, please.
posted by Rich Miller
Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 10:52 am
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Yes, the earlier the better. Barriers to learning are lower at younger ages.
What are the home parents’ issue? They’re not sending their kids to schools, anyway. And no one’s peeking in their windows checking what’s going on at home.
If you want people to mind their own business, mind your own business.
Comment by wordslinger Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 10:59 am
Only $28 million for an extra year of school for the children?
Normally, I’d wait to hear from “Voices For Illinois Children” to weigh in on the issue, but this is a TOTAL bargin!
Grab it, everyone will be better for it.
Comment by Anon Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 11:02 am
Yes, the earlier is absolute better. Gives more time for children to socialize and learn and hopefully, if there are any special needs issues, more time for educators to identify areas of need and address them as quickly as possible.
And despite what the “home school lobby” may have to say, no… not all parents know what’s best for their kids. The vast majority do, and those parents are already educating their kids either in school or at home persuant to homeschooling law well before they’re six, so this change doesn’t affect them at all. It does affect the bad parents that don’t care enough about their kids’ educational needs that they’re not already in school or learning at home by the time they’re six or seven, which seems way too late to start to me.
Comment by TJ Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 11:04 am
Now if we could get to promotion based on competency instead of age in the K-8 space, we just might get math, science and reading scores to improve as well.
Comment by Commonsense in Illinois Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 11:07 am
The Governor’s got the right line on this one: Jobs follow brainpower. Smarter kids means smarter adults in a couple of decades which means a more prosperous state.
Comment by Dan Johnson Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 11:07 am
In my area, most children are in kindergarten by their 6th birthday anyway. Normally, the children that are 5 by September 1st go to kindergarten.
I fail to understand how formalizing current practice will cost so much money.
Comment by mythoughtis Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 11:09 am
–In my area, most children are in kindergarten by their 6th birthday anyway.–
You might be surprised at the number of parents who wait a year to enroll their kids in kindergarten so they’ll be better in high school sports.
A lot of them, believe me.
Comment by wordslinger Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 11:13 am
The problem is that the state is not paying what they are supposed to be paying now. 89% proration of General State Aid disproportionally impacts poor children and everyone in this state appears to be fine with that. Where is the public outcry. It is easy to pass legislation that sounds good on the surface when you have no intention of paying the costs associated with that legislation.
Comment by nobody Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 11:15 am
We can’t afford our schools now, and expanding programs in light of no resources is insanity. Many ideas have merit, but Illinois is in no position to expand anything, yet our legislative leaders and Governor don’t understand the fact we are essentially bankrupt.
Comment by downstate hack Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 11:19 am
It is another great idea but the State must pay for great ideas and they won’t! Without funding it means nothing.
Comment by blogman Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 11:22 am
I would like to think that parents could make this decision and not have to be forced to send their child away if they so wished.
Comment by Phineas J. Whoopee Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 11:30 am
No.
I think that the Education Industry is overly focused on preparing children for college and has
hurt the manufacturing industry significantly by not preparing enough of our population for skilled trades.
We have magnet schools for fine art.
Where are the magnet schools for Welding, Auto Shop, Carpentry, Machinery, Brick laying, Plumbing, Electrician Trade, etc…
How many Union Teachers also carry a CARD for another union trade?
Comment by Pete Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 11:32 am
Like mythoughtis I thought this was the situation already. Kids need to begin their education at 6.
Comment by Norseman Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 11:35 am
–I think that the Education Industry is overly focused on preparing children for college and has
hurt the manufacturing industry significantly by not preparing enough of our population for skilled trades.–
There are public vocational high schools, public technical high schools, public military high schools, public agricultural high schools, public math/science academies……
For crying out loud, don’t blame the high schools for global capitalism.
Comment by wordslinger Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 11:39 am
My goodness, the evidence re early starts and early education is overwhelming. It is only logical to start earlier. I posted before reading other comments, hope I see some Luddites out there to poke a finger at!
Comment by Mongo Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 11:44 am
@Wordslinger
There “were” public vocational high schools, public technical high schools, public military high schools, public agricultural high schools, public math/science academies……
Where are they now?
My grandfather went to CVS.
http://schools.chicagotribune.com/school/chicago-vocational-career-academy-high-school_chicago/
Why are they even tracking and evaluating the ACT scores at the school if not to prepare these students for College?
Comment by Pete Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 11:48 am
Here you go, Pete.
Really has nothing to do with U.S. manufacturing and certainly nothing to do with six-year-old kindergarten, but happy trails. I think I’ll stick on topic now.
–http://www.cps.edu/Schools/High_schools/Pages/HighschoolsIndex.aspx?Type=1&Filter=CPSSchoolGrade=High%20school–
Comment by wordslinger Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 11:52 am
This makes far more sense than extending the dropout age to 18. The earlier you get them during the formative years, the better.
Comment by Wensicia Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 11:53 am
@Pete: What does all that have to do with the mandatory age to start school is 6 instead of 7?
It makes a lot of sense to send children to schools early, especially if the parents aren’t teaching the child enough in the home. Educating early is critical to future development. Stopping more children from being behind developmentally after Kindergarten age has to be a bigger concern than people who homeschool having to register a year early.
Comment by Timmeh Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 12:01 pm
I don’t get it. The home school lobby says, “and make some young adults attend school even after high school graduation.” The bill # listed says in the text children should attend between 7 and 17 unless they have already graduated high school. Any idea what they are talking about?
Also, just to be clear, is the compulsory school at age 6 for real school (I.e. 1st grade) or kindergarten? The opponents make it sound like 1st grade, but from the proponents it sounds like kindergarten.
Comment by Ferris Bueller Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 12:05 pm
A BIG NO!!! It sounds great! Follow the money! Did you know truancy is a COMPETITIVE GRANT? So most areas can’t pay for the enforcement of the current age. Add a whole other age to the mix, just like everything else, nobody does the homework. It will cost $28 million for this unfunded mandate is not the shiny object, it’s the current lack of funding the way it is currently and will continue to stay. Great headline. And the quality tribune article forgot to mention the most important issue. Everyone has truancy, not everyone gets funds to deal with it… Square that circle…
Comment by Did You Know Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 12:06 pm
Not a bad idea but first the state should start paying its promised share of the costs for existing programs on time. Then we can talk.
Comment by Excessively Rabid Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 12:06 pm
My point is that the state is measuring and tracking all of the students from Pre-K to College. All the studies to support success is based on a measuring stick that focuses on High School Graduation rates, GPA, ACT and college acceptance.
I don’t believe that another year will help our neighbors in poor drug invested ganglands. I believe that this law opens them up to more time of exposure to violence and crime at an earlier age. Schools in some areas are more dangerous than homes. A 6 yo may have more to fear from a 14 yo in the same school than a parent.
I think the state law makers should step away from trying to label success and legislate it as if the impact will be provide a positive effect.
There are other areas that need focus before this difficult and expensive to enforce requirement of earlier school age children.
Comment by Pete Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 12:11 pm
===You might be surprised at the number of parents who wait a year to enroll their kids in kindergarten so they’ll be better in high school sports.===
Now our football players will never be as good as those from Texas.
Comment by Been There Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 12:22 pm
if the home schooler lobby is against it, I’m for it!
actually, my not snarky answer is that it is astounding that the age is even 6. Kids should start in formal education earlier, and the earlier the better. Reading is a fundamental skill and if they do not have it by 7, they are way,way behind. mandatory school is how they find the unbiased information and tools to grow into productive citizens.
I’ll always remember the first day of kindergarten. happy to be away from home and in an environment that opened my brain to all sorts of new things. Carpe diem kids!
Comment by Amalia Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 12:29 pm
First of all, most children (age 5 by September 1) are already in school as kindergardeners. Secondly, we are already paying through our taxes to educate these children. Finally, what parent can pass up having someone else look after their children while they are working and have positive learning going forward?
Comment by retired Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 12:38 pm
its not like the US is falling behind in educating its youth and outsourcing our skilled top tier jobs in engineering, chemistry and computer programers to India and China….
I say we abolish a starting age, up the cost of college to 2 million a year and get rid of all loan programs. Our country will surge back to the top if we can just get around this wasted concept of educating our population.
The dumber our citizenry the stronger ‘merica! will be!
get govt (and our children) out of education! We need to keep going so we will be ready to compete with China for unskilled low paying factory jobs…
Comment by They said What? Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 12:48 pm
Given the current outcomes delivered by the Illinois education system, I don’t think starting a year earlier will make any difference, other than more costs for the same outcome.
Comment by enoughalready Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 12:52 pm
Heh: “Now our football players will never be as good as those from Texas.”
If Texas wants to concentrate on football while we concentrate on education, that’s fine with me. This is a good bill, and now a good law for the myriad reasons stated above.
We should go further and mandate learning a foreign language from the early grades. In addition to better preparing children to thrive in a global environment, plenty of studies show that children who learn a second language also do better overall in school.
Comment by Northsider Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 12:54 pm
While I certainly think kids should be in enrolled in kindergarten at around age five, there could be circumstances where a child is not developmentally ready and would be best for the child to remain at home for another year or two. I wouldn’t want that for my child, but I lean toward that it should be the parents’ prerogative.
That said, I don’t buy the financial burden argument. Theoretically, if each child goes to school K through 12, than the financial impact should be about the same. So, if a child starts a year early, they will end with schooling a year early.
Comment by Just Observing Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 12:55 pm
Yes, this makes a lot of sense for various educational and socioeconomic reasons. One of which is, you really don’t want children age 5-7 in the same kindergarten class and then that same kind of age discrepancy throughout early elementary school. Already the whole notion of “red-shirting” kids a year is causing some problems in our elementary schools regarding kids being more socially advanced (kids that should be in 1st grade being in kindergarten).
The only valid argument against it from the comments above seems based around how our schools are not diverse enough in our education that we are putting too much emphasis on college readiness when all students are not going to be getting 4 year degrees and lots of good paying jobs do not require it. That is a valid point (and I agree), but it doesn’t have too much to do with this issue.
In the end, this is the right thing to do for kids.
Comment by Ahoy! Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 1:18 pm
Kids who weren’t in preschool before kindergarten are behind the others as it is without learning how to behave in a classroom, stand in line, interact with other students, and basic academics.
I can’t imagine why anyone would want to hold their child out of school until 7? In this day and age they will be so far behind the others.
I never heard waiting as long as possible so they would be better in sports, that’s a new one on me Wordslinger.
Comment by 3rd Generation Chicago Native Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 1:26 pm
I don’t believe the cost estimates. There can’t be that many children out there that this would impact.
Comment by Downstate Illinois Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 1:41 pm
I do not agree. Another half baked, not thought through well Feel Good law. 28 million seems awful low as a cost. Are these the same budget wizards who underestimated the recent tobacco tax too?
What part of “We Are Broke” don’t you get people? We can’t pay our bills now. Throwing feel good money around left and right like we are actually minting it ourselves. The party in charge has had a strangle hold on government. They have had at least 10 years to turn things around. And what happens. Of course, “We need to spend more government money, to grow the economy”! We are doomed.
Comment by Fan Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 1:43 pm
*** My goodness, the evidence re early starts and early education is overwhelming. ***
Easy there Mongo (please don’t punch my horse). There is some research showing that high-quality programs do help kids early on in life. However, there is also strong evidence that these academic benefits fade as the children continue their schooling. Not saying that we should not be investing in education (as though we do not put enough money into it already). Rather, there is no need to push kids into it for fear that they will be left behind or suffer permanent negative effects from starting school a year later.
Comment by Slick Willy Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 1:52 pm
Oh, not just sports, either. google “redshirting kindergarten”
Young kids should be in school just as soon as they can handle it. All-day K starting at 5 is a great option. Not waiting until 7 is a supremely reasonable start.
**
“I don’t get it. The home school lobby says, “and make some young adults attend school even after high school graduation.” The bill # listed says in the text children should attend between 7 and 17 unless they have already graduated high school. Any idea what they are talking about?”
**
My guess is that they’re concerned with increased attention to homeschool “graduation,” not high school graduation.
Like, how after turning 16 and no longer being subject to the child labor hours restrictions imposed by that “home school work permit” he received at 14, a kid might find himself to have successfully graduated. A 16-year-old would otherwise have compulsory attendance, but if he’s graduated there’s nothing standing in the way of multiple FT jobs.
Comment by crazybleedingheart Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 1:53 pm
For many children this will bring order to their lives earlier, and help assure them the opportunity to learn earlier. It could also provide them access to breakfast and lunch programs.
If things go well, they might even be exposed to less violence.
I see two basic rights in this great nation, adequate affordable healthcare for everyone, at all ages, and a good education, the earlier the better,
Comment by Sunshine Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 1:57 pm
=== We are doomed.===
We most certainly will be doomed if we don’t spend the money to properly educate our next generation. Who do you think will be taking care of you when you’re old? We don’t spend nearly enough on education.
Comment by TwoFeetThick Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 2:02 pm
Most of the kids that are redshirted are attending school, the parents just delay 1st grade until age 7 (so they basically just spend longer in pre-k and kindergarten). I know a lot of parents that are doing it, under the guise that their kids will be more mature and better able to handle high school and college (a good chunk do it so their child will be more competitive in sports especially if they have a late summer birthday). My point is, even though I don’t agree with the practice, those kids aren’t the ones being left behind. It’s the ones that currently get no formal education until age 7. Kids should be in kindergarten at 5 and 1st grade at 6 (unless there is a legislate reasons otherwise pertaining to that child’s individual education needs).
Comment by Ferris Bueller Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 2:24 pm
Cause I had to go to school at 6 yrs old.
Comment by Belle Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 3:07 pm
I posted a similar comment the last time this issue came up here, but as a homeschooler I don’t understand why Illinois is lowering the compulsory age. There is no registration for homeschoolers, no oversight, no requirements whatsoever. The school district will have absolutely no knowledge of my childrens’ existence until we enroll them in high school (or earlier if things change). I just don’t understand how this law could work when there is literally no requirement to sign your kid up. It’s non-compulsory compulsory schooling.
Comment by Fedelm Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 3:10 pm
Seems like this is just “feel good” legislation. It seems to affect very small subsets of the population: home-schoolers, red-shirted kindergartners, some potential truants, …
There are so few students who aren’t already in some type of schooling by age five.
Comment by Diogenes in DuPage Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 3:17 pm
==We can’t afford our schools now, and expanding programs in light of no resources is insanity. Many ideas have merit, but Illinois is in no position to expand anything, yet our legislative leaders and Governor don’t understand the fact we are essentially bankrupt.==
So instead of promoting policies that make Illinois a more learned, intelligent society we should become a backwater who will be mired in perpetual trouble? Hack the perfect screenname for you.
==I think that the Education Industry is overly focused on preparing children for college and has hurt the manufacturing industry significantly by not preparing enough of our population for skilled trades.==
So it’s the “Education Industry” that cut jobs and wages and sent them to Mexico, China, etc.? That’s rich. We shouldn’t prepare people for jobs that largely don’t exist anymore just to try to live up to some mythic manufacturing past. The world has changed. We also shouldn’t make our schools McDonald’s mills.
==Also, just to be clear, is the compulsory school at age 6 for real school (I.e. 1st grade) or kindergarten? The opponents make it sound like 1st grade, but from the proponents it sounds like kindergarten.==
Since when is “real school” not kindergarten?
==all students are not going to be getting 4 year degrees and lots of good paying jobs do not require it.==
What economy are you living in?
Comment by Precinct Captain Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 3:23 pm
“as a homeschooler I don’t understand why Illinois is lowering the compulsory age. There is no registration for homeschoolers, no oversight, no requirements whatsoever.”
Agreed on the lack of oversight, but that makes me wonder why homeschoolers spend energy opposing it.
Lowering the compulsory age matters to people who plan to tell the truth, I guess. Those who would say “no” when asked if their kid’s in school, rather than claiming the homeschool fiction.
Comment by crazybleedingheart Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 3:28 pm
==It seems to affect very small subsets of the population: home-schoolers, red-shirted kindergartners, some potential truants, …
There are so few students who aren’t already in some type of schooling by age five.==
Then what’s with the fiscal note? Maybe there are more small children out of school than you think.
Comment by crazybleedingheart Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 3:29 pm
–Agreed on the lack of oversight, but that makes me wonder why homeschoolers spend energy opposing it.–
I agree. I don’t oppose a formal acknowledgement that education begins or should begin before 7, but I don’t see the benefit of this law. How could it possibly be enforced considering Illinois’ total lack of requirements for homeschoolers?
Comment by Fedelm Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 3:32 pm
From today’s SJ-R.
http://www.sj-r.com/breaking/x1868831299/Talk-to-Us-Job-skills-in-the-new-economy?rssfeed=true
_____
The jobs are there but the worker skills are not. The State Journal-Register will explore that issue during a month-long project that focuses on the job skills needed in the new economy
Comment by Pete Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 3:32 pm
Another fine idea that will get sucked into unfunded mandate, ‘feel good’ legislation, research on early ed, home-schol vs school outcomes, availablity of parents for jobs, cost of teachers/more schools buildings, census changes, and are graduates ready for the job market. What is the number of 7 year old not already in some educational setting? Seems like a small issue that has gotten it’s 15 minutes. Then you read where the US falls in educational outcomes compared to the rest of the world and this just seems like a great idea. Where was it before?
Comment by zatoichi Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 3:32 pm
The idea may sound good on the surface but will not help! The education problem should not focus on the age of mandatory school attendence. Also why add another requirement and expense to the public schools. Put the responsibility on parents to create an environment where children want to learn and like it.
Comment by BMAN Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 3:33 pm
==How could it possibly be enforced considering Illinois’ total lack of requirements for homeschoolers?==
Because people enroll their kids in public school and then don’t take them?
Because many people who don’t take their kids to school don’t know IL law enough to lie about homeschooling?
It’s enforceable **because most people will admit their kid is not going to school** and then will be told that’s against the law and they have to do so. What’s so difficult to understand?
Truancy enforcement (and messaging) CURRENTLY HAPPENS for age 7 and up, even though it’s just as possible to dodge schooling your children via homeschooling lies with that age group.
Comment by crazybleedingheart Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 3:36 pm
So is it that there’s no truancy enforcement for 5 and 6 year olds who are enrolled in school?
I’m not talking about lying, I’m talking about no oversight. There is literally no public official that will contact me to ask about my child’s schooling. There is no way for the state, the local school board, or any other government agency to know I’m homeschooling. We are operating completely off the (school) grid.
This is by no means an endorsement of the total lack of oversight of homeschoolers in Illinois, but a statement of fact. Unless I register my child with the school board, I’m not subject to compulsory schooling laws. Thus, there is no legal compulsion to school my kid in Illinois, ever.
Comment by Fedelm Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 3:41 pm
How about making the schools so good that people WANT to send their kids there at an early age?
No, it’s easier and more in keeping with IL political culture to compel people to do what you want and then feel self-righteous about it.
Comment by Harry Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 3:42 pm
http://www.illinoishouse.org/illinois-homeschool-law-2
Here’s a good summary of the homeschool laws.
Comment by Fedelm Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 3:48 pm
==There is no registration for homeschoolers, no oversight, no requirements whatsoever.==
That is absolutely false. The compulsory attendance age applies to homeschoolers as well. Additionally, kids who are homeschooled still must meet the state’s education standards and the law and court cases place the burden on the person doing the homeschooling to prove that what they are teaching meets state standards (if they are ever asked). If you aren’t meeting the standards your kid can be considered truant. While there may not be a lot of enforcement you are still required to follow the law.
Comment by Demoralized Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 3:52 pm
== Unless I register my child with the school board, I’m not subject to compulsory schooling laws. Thus, there is no legal compulsion to school my kid in Illinois, ever.==
Yes, you are. Yes, there is.
You’re projecting about the law in general based on your own perception/situation re: enforcement. Some areas enforce a lot, some don’t. Some people can afford to keep their kids off the public grid. Some can’t.
Comment by crazybleedingheart Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 3:53 pm
==Thus, there is no legal compulsion to school my kid in Illinois, ever. ==
As I said above, that is absolutely false.
Comment by Demoralized Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 3:54 pm
Also, you might want to consider going to the official source of homeschool requirements, which is the Illinois State Board of Education.
http://www.isbe.state.il.us/homeschool/
Comment by Demoralized Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 3:55 pm
How is that enforced? There’s no requirement for registration or reporting. To quote ISBE “are free to decide the manner, time and materials which best suit the learning needs of their children. Parents may determine what type of home-schooling curriculum is best for their students, what materials to use, how much homework to assign, how homework is to be assessed, and what records of the student’s accomplishments should be kept. Testing is not required in the state of Illinois for homeschoolers. “
Comment by Fedelm Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 3:58 pm
Even a 6 year old knows the answer to this one.
Comment by A guy... Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 3:59 pm
Does our state have a homeschool loophole large enough for savvy lying child abusers to drive a truck through? Yes.
But IL does in fact mandate schooling. This applies to homeschoolers (until they are deemed graduated or age out). IL is able to enforce these laws if and when it chooses to. The wisdom and efficacy of various enforcement mechanisms is certainly debatable. But the ability to enforce is not nothing.
Comment by crazybleedingheart Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 4:00 pm
Fedelm, if you are truly concerned about enforcement, I guess you could get your likeminded homeschool friends together and ask your legislators to pass something like this bill:
http://illinoisreview.typepad.com/illinoisreview/2011/02/sb-136-intro-erupts-il-homeschool-firestorm.html
Comment by crazybleedingheart Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 4:08 pm
@Fedelm:
It’s still the law and you must follow it. I know there are some counties where truant officers will show up on the doorsteps of homeschoolers. I don’t think there are many but it does happen. Just because it isn’t enforce doesn’t mean you aren’t supposed to follow the law. Yeah, there are no testing requirements but you still have to meet the standards. I suppose if you want to blow it off because nobody comes knocking at your door then that is your choice. I hope that’s not what you are doing though. I have no problem with homeschooling. Even considered it for my kids at one point. But I sure as heck would not have ignored the law just because nobody was looking over my shoulder.
Comment by Demoralized Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 4:13 pm
I unfortunately don’t have many like-minded homeschool friends. Being pro-public education and choosing to homeschool is pretty rare. Also it’s a complicated issue. I don’t know how to have sufficient oversight and support from the state while maintaining the flexibility and freedom that is the biggest advantage of homeschooling. Then again, I’m not a legislator.
Comment by Fedelm Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 4:16 pm
@Demoralized
What I’m doing or think should happen is irrelevant. My question is how would this law be enforced, and what’s the benefit?
Comment by Fedelm Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 4:18 pm
@Fedelm:
Well, I can’t speak to homeschooling but I’m sure nobody really gave much thought on that subject. I know there are a growing number of homeschooled kids but overall the population just isn’t that big when compared to the kids being educated in public and private schools. How will it be enforced? How is it enforced now? You are too caught up in this homeschool thing.
Also, I think what you are doing is relevant since you brought up the subject and said you are a homeschooler. Are you following the law or not?
Comment by Demoralized Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 4:23 pm
I should probably say I have a bit of experience in this arena, though it is from a long time ago. My uncle was thrown in jail because his kid wasn’t going to school.
Comment by Demoralized Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 4:26 pm
Ah shucks Slick Willy…
The Rad Corporation notes “lasting benefits such as increases in IQ levels and cognitive abilities such as the ability to understand both concrete and abstract thought.” That sounds good to me.
I agree that over time some of the gains made by an early start fades or better yet, is equalized.
In my view, the bill ought not to be about avoiding harm from a late start, as I don’t know if that has been reliably proven. To me the merit of the bill is that an early start does have reliable, predictable, benefits.
Candy-Gram!
Comment by Mongo Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 4:30 pm
Yesterday I heard there’s 150 homeschooling families registered in my town, and many more who aren’t registered. If your average homeschool family has 3 kids, that’s enough to fill an elementary school. Homeschooling is becoming quite mainstream.
That still doesn’t answer my question; why make the law? Sure, kids should begin formal education by 6, but with this giant loophole that makes law unenforceable, what’s the benefit of it? Who does this help, and how?
Comment by Fedelm Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 4:31 pm
@Fedelm:
Why make any law then? If you are saying that there shouldn’t be a law because some people might not follow it then we don’t need a legislature. There is an obvious benefit and that is to make sure kids are in school at as young an age as possible. The earlier kids start learning the better.
And I can’t tell if you think there should or should not be homeschool regulations or enforcement? But in any event I don’t think this has anything to do with homeschooling.
Comment by Demoralized Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 4:38 pm
Fedelm, have you researched any of the questions you’re asking? The impetus behind the bill isn’t a secret. How would you advise your children to inform themselves about the basics of an issue?
Homeschooling isn’t mainstream.
Nor should it be.
Comment by crazybleedingheart Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 4:44 pm
@Demoralized
Try rereading my posts without trying to figure out my educational and political positions. I’m asking a pretty straightforward question about how enacting an unenforceable requirement benefits anyone.
Anyone else have an answer?
Comment by Fedelm Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 4:47 pm
“Watching the ceremony, Nash special education instructor Thomas Harris observed that Chicago elementary schools still have few if any truancy officers or resources to contact families and retrieve missing youths.
“Enforcing the law will be difficult, but at least it’s on the books,” Harris said. “The earlier we can get them in, the more returns we’ll reap further down the line.”
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-truancy-20130826,0,5634876.story
Again with the unenforceable. So it’s a feelgood thing?
Comment by Fedelm Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 4:50 pm
@Fedelm:
And I answered it. The earlier kids start the better. And your logic about laws is ridiculous. As I said, your belief is apparently if people might not follow the law then lets not have any laws. Just because you don’t like the answer doesn’t mean I didn’t give one. Following laws is often times an “on your honor” proposition.
Comment by Demoralized Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 4:56 pm
@Fedelm:
I also think what you are doing is relevant. As a homeschooler I’m assuming that you do, indeed, follow the laws and teach your kids what they need to be taught as most homeschool families I know do. Just because it isn’t being enforced per se doesn’t mean you aren’t following the law does it? The law gives you guidelines within which you operate.
Comment by Demoralized Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 4:59 pm
“unenforceable”
I do not think that word means what you think it means.
Comment by crazybleedingheart Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 5:00 pm
You’re reading a lot into my statements that aren’t there. I also love how you’re disparaging my character and parenting for daring to ask a question in a public forum.
I don’t see the point in unenforceable laws. There’s a difference between what I believe is good, what I think should happen, and how the law works. I’m solely discussing the latter.
This law is pretty much unenforceable. So why does it matter?
Comment by Fedelm Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 5:00 pm
Ok, so there’s no requirement to register your child or to report on their education process unless somehow a truant officer hears about them and chooses to investigate. As it is there are very little resources if any to investigate truancy. Does this law change that?
I’d write more but my homeschooled child is demanding we do school right this moment.
Comment by Fedelm Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 5:04 pm
==I’d write more but my homeschooled child is demanding we do school right this moment.=
This could be a lesson in lawmaking and free speech.
Comment by Demoralized Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 5:10 pm
==so there’s no requirement to register your child or to report on their education process unless somehow a truant officer hears about them and chooses to investigate==
Children who are not kept in basement dungeons tend to interact with a large number of non-truant-officers outside their families.
Some of these people may care about school attendance. Some of them assess whether school is happening and how it is going as part of their professional duty. Some are even mandatory reporters of child abuse and neglect.
As I said before, people who can afford to NEVER interact with any state or medical apparatus can get away with abusing/neglecting a child in private. That doesn’t make any other abuse or neglect law “unenforceable.” It’s enforced quite a bit, actually.
Except for the aforementioned basement dungeon situation, even people who don’t send their kids to public school don’t tend to find themselves completely off the grid concerning all social services regarding their children, living their lives in a socially unacceptable fashion by not schooling at all yet never being asked to explain themselves, ever, not even to concerned neighbors, clergy, doctors, daycare workers, law enforcement, etc.
You speak as though the norm is mid-to-upper-class parents who get to choose whether they want their children to participate in public life.
Like homeschooling, that’s just not mainstream reality.
==As it is there are very little resources if any to investigate truancy.==
Truancy investigation and response is a very localized issue and this blanket statement doesn’t make any sense in weighing statewide policy.
Comment by crazybleedingheart Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 5:28 pm
No, and I’m no avid Home-Schooling proponent–it just, once again, feels like too much unnecessary government intervention once again. Illinois ain’t perfect but we have all sorts of well-educated smart Residents in this State–for example, we have globs of impressive Higher Institutions (Colleges, Universities) of Learning, for instance, with globs of Illinois STUdents in them who started school at age 7 and moved through the System that’s been in place just fine, It’s kind of like the State outright prohibiting even an Emergency Cell call in your car by a responsible Adult while moving–when AAA’s own major Study on the issue (previously referred to in CAP FAX) showed virtually NO difference in Safety outcomes. I realize others may stridently disagree, and some for decent reasons, but I just don’t think this issue of when the kids start schooling in Illinois has been anywhere near “broke” enough that it needed this kind of “fixing…!”
Comment by Just The Way It Is One Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 7:32 pm
That was meant to read, “…just fine.”
Comment by Just The Way It Is One Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 7:33 pm
Meh, my neighbors home schooled for a few years.
I take it they had religous reasons and they weren’t cool with the black kids.
Why you would try that in Oak Park is beyond me. Property taxes are through the roof. You could pick a spot with acres in Michigan for a lot less.
But the kids are awesome. Love em to death.
Comment by wordslinger Monday, Aug 26, 13 @ 9:54 pm
Here I thought the GOP was supposed to be the “Return on Investment” party.
And it’s really unclear how this is an added expense to home skoolers. An extra inconvenience perhaps, but I don’t see where there’s more expenses.
Comment by A. Nonymous Tuesday, Aug 27, 13 @ 7:12 am