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* Greg Hinz…
llinois Republicans finally may have stumbled on an issue that they can exploit against Gov. Pat Quinn next year: Junking the way in which those squiggles and blobs known as General Assembly districts are drawn.
In recent months an eclectic group that includes Republican business types like Metropolis 2020’s George Ranney and leftish reformers such as Common Cause and the Illinois Campaign for Political Reform, launched a drive to put a proposed constitutional amendment on the November 2014 general election ballot. Since then, the original group has morphed into a wider coalition known as Yes! for Independent Maps that’s begun to draw a fair amount of publicity.
Unlike term limits, a much hotter issue that’s being pushed by GOP gubernatorial hopeful Bruce Rauner, the concept of taking away remapping legislative districts from the politicians and turning it over to an independent, non-partisan panel draws some backing across the political spectrum. I mean, only your precinct captain brother-in-law really likes the way gerrymandered districts turn out now.
Beyond that, Yes! for Fair Maps shrewdly is not pushing any changes in how congressional districts are drawn. Any move that would elect more Republican congressmen here without undoing GOP-designed horrors in states like Texas and Pennsylvania would die fast among the Illinois Democratic faithful.
Hinz reports that all four Republican gubernatorial candidates support the proposal.
* The Question: Do you think state legislative remap reform will be a game-changing Republican issue with Illinois voters? Take the poll and then explain your answer in comments, please.
posted by Rich Miller
Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 1:40 pm
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No one seems to feel more disenfranchised than the people who have a Congressman they can’t relate to. Because the boundaries in (especially the northern portion) this state are so bizarre, a lot of people feel they have little or nothing in common with the people who occupy the majority area of a district i.e. Elmhurst and Hinsdale being part of Wrigleyville. Or Oak Park barely eeking into the Davis District, or the crazy horse shoe shaped district that disenfranchises thousands of people in the middle (neck) of the district.
Comment by A guy... Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 1:48 pm
This is about state maps, not congressional. And Danny Davis represents the West Side, so by all rights Oak Park should probably be in the district.
Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 1:51 pm
I’m all for it…no matter which party draws the lines, it is bad. We need a Mike Fortner like objective computer program to draw maps. Currently we get too many far left and far right Legislators who can’t agree on much. In regard to the question at hand, I think it is too much inside baseball to be a game changer with the public.
Comment by Center Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 1:51 pm
I voted no.
I tried explaining redistricting to my mother in law. It was hopeless. Alot of voters do not even know that redistricting occurs every ten years, let alone who their rep is, so the whole ’sausage making’ part of redistricting is totally foreign.
It appeals to political wonks who read this blog, but doesn’t appeal to the vast majority of the voters.
Comment by train111 Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 1:53 pm
A Wisconsin perspective from two WI state senators (one D & one R):
=== The Illinois and Wisconsin maps illustrate how the redistricting process can be abused. Iowa’s maps show us how redistricting can be done right, and that’s why we modeled SB 163 after Iowa’s successful system. We believe that, after reviewing the maps, any reasonable legislator will agree that we need to at least discuss the issue. ===
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/opinion/column/guest/sens-tim-cullen-and-dale-schultz-clearing-the-air-on/article_12417088-5f60-5f30-b80f-9ce735934567.html
Comment by Bill White Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 1:58 pm
No, sorry Greg. I know this will sound irreverent to the point, but I think Gerrymandering was one of the very few isuues which arose in H.S. Civics or Government 101 class which a lot of people thought was cool!…”So, you mean if you’re in Power in your State, or your Party, they get to DO that, draw those Salamanders and stuff so more people will vote for YOU guys?! Wowwww…cooool!”
Oh sure, Elected Officials and Wanabees, Politicians and Good Government types like this group sure do care, and rightfully enough, but, when push comes to shove, the Courts end up resolving it, anyway, as with many important matters in American Society (after all, that Powerful, albeit often Quiet Branch of Government, is there for a reason, as we all learned in that same Basic Government Class)…!
Comment by Just The Way It Is One Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 2:00 pm
No, I don’t think the ground has been softened up enough for the issue to rise to the top of the list.
I think it’s a legitimate issue, and would be supportive of reform, but I can’t say I ever hear anyone talking about it. It doesn’t seem to be on the radar, and change will take a strong public push.
Comment by wordslinger Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 2:02 pm
I did vote “no” - this issue won’t be a game changer for the IL GOP in 2014 - in part because I don’t think the IL GOP is sufficiently organized to gather the necessary signatures and in part because if the issue starts to get traction, IL Dems can jump on the band wagon easily enough, provided the change is effective for the next map, to be drawn after the 2020 census.
Comment by Bill White Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 2:02 pm
Republicans talking to voters about maps will be slightly more successful than Greens talking to voters about IRV, Condorcet and approval voting.
The chief reason it will get more traction is the establishment media, including NPR, have decided that maps are very important now. There’s not much research to support the idea maps are more deterministic than in the past. But it’s something all the cool kids who get on the air are saying.
Comment by Carl Nyberg Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 2:06 pm
Important, yes. Bipartisan even. But game-changer for the GOP? No. Too arcane.
Comment by Ray del Camino Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 2:10 pm
I voted no. Most people (voters) know little or nothing about districts, the processes used to draw districts, and care little or nothing about the issue.
“only your precinct captain brother-in-law really likes the way gerrymandered districts turn out now.”
I think that there are a lot more people other than my “precinct captain brother-in-law” who like the current system and its results. For example, most current office holders and potential candidates pay close attention. Current office holders find being ‘mapped’ into the proper district cuts the cost and effort to be reelected to office. Many large campaign contributors also pay attention. They do not want to give a substantial amount of their money to a candidate who has been ‘mapped’ into an unwinnable district for their party.
Comment by Hit or Miss Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 2:12 pm
As an issue that moves voters to action? Snore. No way.
Suggestion for the GOP braintrust - if that’s the best you got maybe go back to the anti-Madigan stuff - give it one . . . more . . . try ?
Comment by Siriusly Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 2:14 pm
No. People don’t understand the importance and don’t care. Frankly, I wish they would.
Comment by Ron Burgundy Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 2:17 pm
The legislature drew the Congressional boundaries (at least some of the members did). So, in this instance, a computer would determine the State Senate boundaries, and then the Rep districts therein, and the Legislature (at least some of them) would still draw the Congressional Boundaries? In Iowa, I thought the computer did all of them. I reread the piece and now it’s clearer. I still submit that Congressional boundaries are the ones I hear the most complaints about.
Comment by A guy... Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 2:19 pm
Yes, but not in the sense of “pounding on this issue will help them win more seats.” It will be a game-changer if passed, because fewer safe seats will reduce the number of members of the GA who feel no need to compromise on issues or move toward the center in their announced positions. Since a lot of Cook County and an increasing portion of the collar counties are going to be safe Democratic seats no matter what the specific boundaries, and this reform will hurt more Republican hard-liners more than Democrats.
Comment by Anon. Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 2:19 pm
As to causing the populace to rise up, a resounding “No”. 50% of adult citizens fail to register, and of the ones who do register 50% or more faithfully fail to vote. We are getting exactly the government we want and deserve, based on our apathy. If we Rs want a successful strategy, we should re-impeach Bill Clinton. Now there was a winner for you.
Comment by steve schnorf Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 2:25 pm
Nope. I think it’s one of those common sense thing all voters agree on, but is not a pressing enough issue to win any votes they wouldn’t have otherwise.
Comment by Johnny Q. Suburban Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 2:26 pm
Abba Eban once said of the the Palestinians that they never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity. Same goes for the current crop over at the ILGOP.
Comment by dupage dan Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 2:31 pm
Lived in Oak Park. Felt more than a little neglected there. I like Danny. He’s got his hands full with a lot of needy areas in the district. OP was not a squeaky wheel.
Comment by A guy... Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 2:35 pm
If the blobs and squiggles were drawn by the GOP they’d be fine with them.
Comment by Chavez-respecting Obamist Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 2:35 pm
Voted no. Didn’t the computers draw Californias maps this time and still give the Dems huge majorities?
Also, Christie Hefner was on “Morning Joe” this morning and the discussion of independent redistricting came up and just in passing she said David Axelrod supports it. So I am not seeing the big GOP advantage here. Dems tend to care way more about process than GOPers.
Comment by hisgirlfriday Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 2:38 pm
This is a less succinct, less sexy version of Fire Madigan.
Comment by J Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 2:44 pm
I don’t think it is a “Game Changer”. There isn’t going to be a game changing issue that will be the sole cause of the Republican party to shift the momentum towards their side.
I’ll go the other way though. I think the electoral college, Senate rules, how many Senate seats a state has, and gerrymandering will start to get on people’s radars. They aren’t all quite the same issue, but I have seen news, talk shows, and political blogs talk about these issues more than they have in the past and I feel like they’re related (Is the government biased towards groups based how we distribute the seats?). If Republicans push these issues, informs voters, and builds an image as hard-working people pushing for bipartisan reforms, then they’ll get votes. Part of building that image (at least on the national level and in some states) is by staying away from hotter, less bipartisan issues such as Voter ID laws.
Part of making an issue mainstream is taking an issue to the mainstream. That requires politicians willing to push the issue even though it doesn’t have much support now. Now is a great time to start pushing, while faith in government is low and people will be hoping for “something” to ease tensions and increase productivity in Springfield and DC.
Comment by Timmeh Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 2:48 pm
What immediately comes to mind is would the GOP or Rauner be complaining if they were in charge of drawing the map rather than the DEMS ?
Secondly, there is no such thing as an”independent, non-partisan panel”. Furthermore, any process to appoint this panel will be done on a partisan basis.
Accept the facts, this is politics.
Comment by MOON Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 2:50 pm
I would also like to add to my comments above that under present circumstances a map drawn by anybody would result in a substantial majority for the DEMS.
Comment by MOON Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 2:57 pm
–Lived in Oak Park. Felt more than a little neglected there.–
In what way?
Comment by wordslinger Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 2:59 pm
—
If the blobs and squiggles were drawn by the GOP they’d be fine with them.
—
Just like the Dems are fine w/ them since they did draw them. That doesn’t make it right, regardless of the side that complains about it.
Gerrymandering is too much inside baseball for most people, which is sad because it is what has made districts less competitive, created “safe” seats all over and really has had nothing but a negative impact to our politics (on both sides)
We should all want this changed, that is unless we are purely party hacks that only care that our party wins.
all of that said, people don’t know and don’t care. What they have taught my daughter about our system in school is weak at best and damn near criminal at worst.
Comment by RonOglesby Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 3:00 pm
Game-changing?
Hmmn, let’s ponder that.
Illinois ranks very low in most economic categories.
We may have the worst funded pensions in the country, with no real way to pay other than a large tax increase.
And we have one party that appears to want to outlaw all abortions.
That party also wants to tell consenting adults who they can marry.
We are facing those major issues, but people actually think that the shape of a district is going to get somebody to change a vote?
Yeah, I don’t see that having much of an impact.
Comment by Skeeter Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 3:03 pm
It’s not an issue that has an easy explanation to it or offers a reason why there will be any change in Springfield as a result. Repubs thought they drew a map and lost it two years later. It’s candidates and ground game that have more impact.
Comment by D P Gumby Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 3:06 pm
–More hyperventilating nonsense from Hinz. When he cares about an issue, he thinks everyone else does, too.–
Ue’s really not too engaged in his work, is he?
He’s not alone among some of the alleged Big Hitters in the Chicago punditocracy.
Have you ever seen an “oops” among some of the Big Brains “in the know” as to how every political action over the last 15 years was tied to electing Lisa Madigan governor?
Some of them have written hundreds of columns and stories about it. Shouldn’t there be a little embarrassment and an admission that “we really didn’t have inside information; we were just lazily phoning it in?”
Comment by wordslinger Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 3:08 pm
I think it’s an important issue and agree that it needs to be done impartially. Nonetheless, I agree with many commenters here that it’s not an issue that’s going to fire up a lot of voters.
Comment by OldSmoky2 Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 3:17 pm
No one really cares about this. No one will even remember this issue. There’s nothing “impartial” about these commissions. Politicians like Mike Madigan will end up determining who’s on the commission.
Comment by Steve Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 3:21 pm
With regard to the Danny Davis comments –
Danny Davis is well known for ignoring his entire district as he focuses on the next job he may run for.
Don’t take it personally, Oak Parkers. Danny ignores all of us.
Comment by Skeeter Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 3:25 pm
“I think Gerrymandering was one of the very few isuues which arose in H.S. Civics or Government 101 class which a lot of people thought was cool!”
I weep for the future of our nation.
In any case, “game changer”?? NO way. Good idea? You betcha. The R’s need *something* to hitch on to that is (1) a broadly supported good idea, (2) has a ’story’ that doesn’t alienate any single group of Illinoisans, and (3) is at least near term good for the Rs and bad for the Ds.
Comment by Chris Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 3:26 pm
Independent redistricting needs to be done. In the Cook County suburbs, we have had our representation usurped by Chicago politicians (regardless of whether the suburban representative would be D or R). 23 house and 15 senate districts cross from the city into the suburbs, with most of these being city-majority. Also, I count 17 house and 14 senate districts that cross from Cook County into another county. These crossings are unnecessary and completely political. Redistricting should try to follow existing county, city, and neighborhood lines so the people can be properly represented. I also believe elections would be more competitive if districts reflected existing communities and weren’t tailored for the incumbents.
Comment by Southwest Cook Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 3:27 pm
Certainly not game-changing, but this is a combustible environment. I’m not sure people will forget about this when the government finally reopens. Nationally, I think we may have a climate in which there are all sorts of interesting ballot amendments, independent candidates, etc. We are largely shielded from that sort of change in Illinois. Still, if ever there was a ripe environment, it would seem to be now.
Comment by LincolnLounger Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 3:32 pm
I voted No because it’s something that should be done, but your common person isn’t going to care/understand enough to make it a “game-changer.”
Comment by Anon Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 3:34 pm
Concur with the other posters. It would improve GOP’s areas in the collar counties, or at least maintain their areas. But a game changer, no.
Comment by Darienite Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 3:42 pm
I think it could help Republicans if it’s on the ballot, I voted no because I don’t think it’s a game changer, but it could help. I think it will win if its on the ballot, I believe it polls around 65 - 60%. If you have a candidate running on the platform with a popular initiative it can help, especially in a tight race, which the Governor’s race will be no matter what.
Comment by Ahoy! Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 3:44 pm
I doubt voters will get worked up about how things may change in 2023 under a fair map. The way the state is heading toward a dark blue, it won’t matter much if the districts are drawn in a nonpartisan way — the Dems will keep the majority.
Comment by reformer Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 3:45 pm
== This is a less succinct, less sexy version of Fire Madigan.==
Fire Madigan in 2023! That’s sure to generate a wave of enthusiasm.
Comment by reformer Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 3:47 pm
No - It sounds like some populist item Gov Quinn would endorse and therefore neutralize.
Comment by a drop in Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 4:28 pm
–It would improve GOP’s areas in the collar counties, or at least maintain their areas.–
I don’t think so. That’s wishful thinking.
Believe it or not, the suburbs or Chicago are not the suburbs of Houston or Dallas.
The national GOP brand is bleeding in DuPage, Lake, Will, Kane and McHenry. As well it should bed.
“Dixie” don’t play there.
For crying out loud, for all of United States’ history, we’ve been dragging Dixie into the modern world. Why would it be different now?
After the circle-jerk of the last couple weeks, can Illinois Republicans step up and lay it down to these lunatics?
Illinois is where the GOP was born, on the side of the angels.
For the only time in history, a people — young men and women from the farms of the Midwest and Northeast — put down the plow, took up arms, raised the greatest army in history, conquered a continent and freed slaves in their wake.
How can we let these s-kicker wannabe Rebels debase the legacy of one of the greatest advancements in Western Civilvation?
That’s enough.
Comment by wordslinger Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 4:39 pm
“….the concept of taking away remapping legislative districts from the politicians and turning it over to an independent, non-partisan panel….”
Are these panels (oak? cedar? maple?) independent, made up of offsetting interests, or apriori algorithms?
Comment by Hans Sanity Friday, Oct 11, 13 @ 4:43 pm