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* More than 600 Chinese kids are enrolling at UIUC this fall…
They will represent nearly 10 percent of the entering freshman class at the state’s most competitive public university, up from fewer than 20 freshmen in 2006. And they are so important to the university’s present and future that a U. of I. team flew halfway around the world this summer to conduct three orientation sessions in their country.
While the students and their families are betting their futures on a U. of I. education, the university depends on the full tuition they pay — a minimum of $31,000 a year, in some cases totaling twice that of an Illinois resident, plus housing and other costs.
U. of I. has more international students than any other American public university, and it trails only the University of Southern California, a private institution. All told, including graduate students who qualify for some aid, about 9,400 international students funneled $166 million into the Urbana-Champaign campus budget last year in tuition alone, triple the amount from just five years ago.
When fees and housing are factored in, international students contributed $211 million to the campus budget, accounting for 25 percent of the amount paid by all students. Nearly half that sum came from China, university figures show.
It’s pretty clear that UIUC is using these kids to plug their budget holes. And what’s happening is those students are getting degrees, going home and then competing with us.
Spreading the American Way is a good thing. It makes this country stand head and shoulders above the rest of the world. And if that helps push real reform in China, then I’m for it. But, as the UIUC numbers show, the American Way these days has become too much about grabbing every dollar you can, almost regardless of the consequences.
* And, yes, I’m wincing at my own borderline reactionary xenophobia here. So, it’s important to also point out this…
Meanwhile, the number of students from Illinois is down, to 5,358 freshmen last fall, but that is more a function of students passing on Illinois than the university rejecting them. U. of I. has admitted a consistent number of in-state applicants over the past five years, but a higher percentage of them are enrolling elsewhere.
I’d really like to know why this is happening. Is it the high tuition? Is it the lack of quality education? Is it the condition of the campus? Is it just that kids are tired of living in Illinois? What?
posted by Rich Miller
Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 11:18 am
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===What?===
It’s an ugly campus and it’s male to female student ratio is like 3 dudes for every chick.
Madison? Beautiful campus. Iowa? Yep. Indiana? Anyone see a pattern? Heck, Iowa would have closed if it wasn’t for Illinois kids attending.
Students are voting with their feet.
Comment by 47th Ward Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 11:24 am
More and more Illinois students are realizing that high-price college degrees simply aren’t worth it. They’re choosing community colleges for the first two years and saving dough. I’m also seeing a pickup in interest for SIU-Edwardsville even though the Carbondale campus is just down the road.
Comment by Downstate Illinois Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 11:25 am
as a loyal UI alumnus, this greatly disappoints me but I am not surprised. UI needs the cash, I’ve lost track of how much it is owed by the legislature. Problem is that these students most likely will have zero allegiance to UI when they graduate, won’t donate money, etc. OTOH, the UI has been its own worst enemy in terms of PR: CloutGate, the Global Learning disaster. Further, UI keeps putting its money into the engineering and business schools. Thus, kids who want to pursue liberal arts go elsewhere.
Comment by Fire Ron Guenther Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 11:29 am
Every diploma should come with a green card; this is the immigration reform we need.
Comment by anon. Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 11:29 am
The funding for the University of Illinois (and other public Illinois universities) has been cut drastically over the last 6 years or so. I get the idea of wanting more Illinois students to attend the University, but without some more state funding, they are going to have to keep doing this to maintain a budget.
As an engineering alumnus from U of I, I appreciated the tremendous diversity of the student body there, especially within the college of engineering. However, if they are going to continue to solicit foreign students to plug budgetary holes, I would prefer they try and attract students from everywhere on the globe and not just China (though, admittedly, within China there is significant diversity).
Comment by Bunson8r Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 11:30 am
mr/ms 47th ward has a good point
spent any time in cham-bana lately…pretty lame.
but enrollment down a lot of places…maybe we are running out of college age kiddos
Comment by CircularFiringSquad Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 11:31 am
Students
32,281 enrolled
56% male / 44% female
Not sure about the 3 to 1, but it is higher than most schools.
Also you might be surprised how many schools come up with financial aid packages that make attending out of state schools cheaper.
Comment by OneMan Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 11:31 am
The number of Illinois high school seniors has been in a decline cycle for a few years. That is hurting enrollment at all Illinois state universities. Also, many other states’ universities are going after Illinois high school seniors.
In some cases, another state’s out-of-state tution can be lower than Illinois’ in-state tution. For example, newspapers carried stories last Spring that for the most recent school year, Illinois students will make up 40 percent of the freshman class at the University of Missouri in Columbia.
Comment by Joe M Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 11:31 am
Joe M -
Thanks for the info, mirrors what I’ve heard. Can you provide a link?
Comment by Anyone Remember Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 11:33 am
And 47th Ward, to even suggest that Iowa or Indiana has a nicer campus than Illinois is just fantasy. I will admit Madison has a nicer campus. Also, the most recent freshman class was 56% Male, which is really skewed by the College of Engineering (outside of Engineering, it’s about 50/50).
Comment by Bunson8r Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 11:34 am
Our daughter will be a freshman at U of I this fall.
Seriously considered 2 years of Junior College because of the cost difference.
Comment by Last Bull Moose Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 11:35 am
Meanwhile, there are plenty of Illinois kids in the top 20% — and even top 10%– who aren’t admitted, or aren’t admitted into certain programs. It irritates me that Illinois residents pay for UIUC with their tax dollars while the school prefers to admit students from elsewhere.
Comment by Zoom Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 11:37 am
Well back in 1998 when I was applying to colleges it was narrowed to 3 schools and 2 were Illinois schools (NIU, Bradley) the out of state school I applied to was the University of Alabama. I chose Alabama over the Illinois schools after visiting all the campuses, also Bradley was the most expensive of the 3 and that was with me being In-State too, Alabama was about 1,500 more a semester than NIU, also Alabama doesn’t have the brutal winter weather we have here in Illinois, so it was a no brainer and the bonus of being 800+ miles away from Ma & Dad doesn’t hurt either.
Comment by bloval27 Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 11:37 am
I can share what I was hearing from the standpoint of a former (2 years ago) high school principal and what I am hearing as a superintendent. Our kids are looking very hard at the costs. I think the quality of the education figured in to their decisions somewhat but, we are within 30 minutes of the U of I so their reputation locally is excellent. A significant number of our kids were accepted to the U of I but choose other schools, especially Illinois Schools because of overall cost and qualified for scholarships at these other schools that were not being offered at Illinois.
Again, just the perspective from two medium sized schools districts/high schools.
Comment by JS Mill Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 11:37 am
Yeah, that 3-1 ratio of guys to gals is waaaaay off.Back 6-7 years ago, a couple of real estate instructors retired and they didn’t replace them. There was ONE section offered for about 50 students and it was filled in about 2 seconds. Demand was huge and UIUC couldn’t offer more than one section of intro RE. They used to be one of the top business schools in the nation but that has changed, probably because of cost and the pension issues.
Comment by Wally Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 11:38 am
There were more than 600 Chinese freshmen last year.
http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2013-11-01/ui-soon-open-office-china.html
Comment by Precinct Captain Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 11:38 am
Embarrassingly bad leadership, trustees with a “managing decline” mentality, alumni dissatisfied with admissions policies, incorrect public policy calls since “Ikenberry I”, dissipation of assets and focus to Chicago and Springfield campuses, patronage hiring, loss of state funding, ham-handed campaign of Kennedy to become next president, and Quinn’s leadership. Need more reasons why this place is being dropped from the lists of students and parents?
Comment by Chad Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 11:40 am
I might have exaggerated, but when I was visiting the campus as an admitted prospective student, it was a freaking pirate ship.
And it’s a very ugly campus.
Comment by 47th Ward Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 11:42 am
==Bradley was the most expensive of the 3 and that was with me being In-State too==
Um, that’s probably because Bradley is a private school, no?
Comment by Anonymous Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 11:42 am
Perhaps it’s the attitude they give off to perspective students from Illinois. When my daughter and I visited UIUC about 8 years ago, the admissions representative who addressed the group basically gave the impression that since they get so many applications from throughout the world they could afford to be very selective and didn’t really need local students to fill their classes. Thanks to that attitude, of all the schools we looked at, UIUC was the only one my daughter decided not to apply to.
Comment by Bluefish Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 11:43 am
For Illinois students it’s probably two factors. Some students are choosing private colleges with Illinois as their backup and some are choosing to do 2 years at Community Colleges which have smaller classes, lower costs, and a curriculum that directly transfers into the 4 year colleges. The time frame they are talking about for acceptances is 5 years in the article and state universities did pretty well during the economic downturn because of price and fewer jobs out there. Most have seen a downturn since.
I had a nephew in the second group with plans to head to U of I, but decided now to go to Dakota State for cybersecurity. In his case, Dakota State is better in that specific specialty.
It’s not just U of I though–it’s widespread among universities and colleges both public and private. Chinese students pay full tuition which with increasing costs and less state support is a big issue for colleges and universities.
The question no one seems to want to answer is what happens when the Chinese economy hits a downturn?
If you lose that much tuition money or even say half of it, it creates a huge funding hole.
The way to fix it is:
1) Try to slow the rate of cost increases on campus–but that means fewer amenities that attract students both foreign and domestic who pay full tuition
2) Have the state go back to paying a bigger share of operating costs.
Comment by ArchPundit Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 11:43 am
Rich, don’t wince about being annoyed that UIUC is filling spots with foreign students. It doesn’t matter if they’re Chinese or Canadian — the bottom line is, their parents (and possibly grandparents and great-grandparents) did not pay state taxes for years and years and years to build and sustain that institution.
It is getting harder and harder for Illinois kids to get into UIUC because the admission department is filling those spots with foreign students. (And I would ask — if 10 percent are Chinese, how many non-Chinese international students are there?)
There are real optics issues here. And real policy issues as well.
Comment by Soccermom Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 11:44 am
–Every diploma should come with a green card; this is the immigration reform we need.–
I like that idea a lot.
And 47 is right about Iowa; it’s basically a university for Illinois kids. Iowa built some great state institutions, but it’s hard to keep the kids down on the farm after they’ve seen a bit of the world
Comment by Anonymous Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 11:44 am
U of I formerly was a great school at a great price. Now its still a great education, but we’ve lost the price argument. U of I can’t give the type of aid packages that private schools can, and lets face it Ann Arbor, Madison, Iowa City are much more attactive campuses than U-C. Plus you can’t discount the impact of all of the controversy in teh last couple of years; law school admission, clout lists etc. It really sad.
Comment by Red Ranger Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 11:44 am
There’s also some interesting historical connections as well.
http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2010-11-07/uis-ties-china-go-back-decades.html
“More than a quarter of all Chinese students who came to the U.S. between 1910 and 1950 chose to attend the UI.”
http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2012-10-28/ui-might-establish-branch-office-china-cement-presence.html
Comment by Precinct Captain Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 11:45 am
@Anyone Remember
http://www.pjstar.com/article/20140719/News/140719000
Also, decrease appropriations from the State to Illinois State Universities has been a factor in increased tuition rates.
For example, WIU has about an annual appropriated budget (from state funds and from tution) of $135 million. In 2002 WIU received $64.3 millions from the State. In 2014, WIU received $52.7 million. The difference has to be made up in tuition increases.
Room and board and fees have had to go up to cover the separate facilities budget too. There is a lot of deferred maintenance on Illinois state university campuses because of decreased facilities money from the State.
http://www.wiu.edu/budget/news/January%202014%20Budget%20Update.pdf has a nice presentation of WIU’s budget for last year.
The budget issues facing WIU are typical to the issues facing all of the Illinois State Universities.
Comment by Joe M Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 11:46 am
Meanwhile, there are plenty of Illinois kids in the top 20% — and even top 10%– who aren’t admitted, or aren’t admitted into certain programs
Exactly so. Neither of my two could get into the programs they wanted. So, when I get calls to donate, I reply that since they didn’t want my children, they don’t need my money.
though, admittedly, within China there is significant diversity).
But not in those 600. They are all from families who can afford to send their kids to USA schools. Their families are connected (and suffered for it in the Cultural Revolution) and now their kids will be also.
It doesn’t help that UIUC charges more for BUSINESS Junior/Seniors like they do for Engineering. I used to open several bottles of pure ethanol (tax stamps and all) in various Chemistry labs. Engineering makes sense.
What do accountants open??
Comment by Pat C Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 11:47 am
===Meanwhile, there are plenty of Illinois kids in the top 20% — and even top 10%– who aren’t admitted, or aren’t admitted into certain programs. It irritates me that Illinois residents pay for UIUC with their tax dollars while the school prefers to admit students from elsewhere.
I understand your point here, but the foreign students are paying a fair price to attend. They are paying full cost and not getting a break for being in state and the undergrads don’t qualify for any aid. Most students from Illinois have a lower total bill and most get some form of aid which costs the university.
If you are a university facing funding cuts from the state and the feds and increasing costs what would you do? It’s a natural result of other policies.
Comment by ArchPundit Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 11:47 am
Anonymous, you would be correct Bradley is a private school. That wasn’t my point, the point was that I could go to a quality university outside Illinois for similar cost or less.
Comment by bloval27 Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 11:48 am
–Every diploma should come with a green card; this is the immigration reform we need.–
I like that idea a lot.
I do not. How many people have Abbott, Motorola, etc laid off over the past few years?
I can name names of people with degrees from top schools who were laid off, while H1-Bs or L-1s were kept. Lots of names.
“Son, go to school for engineering. Then in 15-20 years, you too can be told your skills are obsolete, and laid off”.
So appealing…..
Comment by Pat C Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 11:51 am
==- Bluefish - Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 11:43 am:==
That attitude has always been around. UIUC is a “public ivy.” There are documents that can be read in the university archives from the 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s where administrators and trustees pushed to cement that reputation by definitively positioning the school as a public “Harvard of the Midwest” with the idea that “other kids” could go to Illinois State, Northern, Southern, UIC, etc.
Comment by Precinct Captain Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 11:52 am
I really don’t understand the argument of a “prettier campus”. I just graduated from U of I and the campus appearance was not a factor in my college decision. Besides that point, UIUC consistently ranks as one of the best party schools in the country. Besides those features, the University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign blows UW-Madison, Iowa, and Indiana out of the water when in almost every academic field of study, especially engineering and business.
Above was just my response to 47th Ward. Now in terms of the debate on the Asian population, it is undoubtedly needed. When the state legislature is budgeting the same amount of money in 2014 (adjusted for inflation) as they budgeted for the university in 1967…then you know we have a real problem. Increasing tuition and out of state/international students is a viable option for the near future, but is ultimately in the long run is not sustainable. The state legislature, instead of spending the first four months of session spending time going over bills like tanning legislation, should be facing the real problems affordable education and working toward sustaining one of the top 10 public institutions in the country (not to mention all other state schools).
Comment by Illini Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 11:54 am
My son just graduated from U of I with a BS in Aerospace Engineering. He’s headed back to pick up his masters in the fall. Unless they’re getting an Engineering degree, or to a slightly lesser extent, a business degree, I can’t imagine what attraction U of I would have from a practical standpoint. There is barely any merit aid, and none for the vast majority of students that are accepted. UW-Madison is the same way, and don’t even talk about Michigan, which is astronomical in price.
Notre Dame gave my son scholarships that made it competitive with U of I, but U of I had more highly ranked Engineering programs. My youngest is going out of state to a top program and getting 10K per year in merit aid, including a 4K/year Chicagoland stipend…
U of I is in trouble, and along with Rich, I’m very worried about the number of Chinese students attending. Rich, they aren’t just going to be economically competing with us, but given the politics, they’re likely going to be improving Chinese armaments that can potentially be used against us and our allies. And even though China is diverse, these children are the party elite from China, who can afford to pay the full-ride and more. Green cards aren’t going to change their minds. They’ve got good paying jobs just waiting for them when they graduate back in China, and staying here would likely be a blow to their family’s well-being in more ways than one.
Maybe Bruce can help out U of I while he’s passing out bucks.
Comment by PublicServant Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 11:54 am
Yet, the UIUC campus has new dorms, has a renovated Lincoln Hall, campustown has many new buildings and large apartment buildings are popping up everywhere. Sports facilities have been upgraded a lot in the past 20 years.
Comment by Wally Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 11:58 am
he idea that “other kids” could go to Illinois State, Northern, Southern, UIC
While it was very badly articulated, the push to make NIU a “Big 10″ school recently was really related to this. A lot of parents are very surprised that their kids are not getting into UIUC even with decent grades and a good ACT.
I have no idea what the real cause is, but that perception is very much “out there”.
ugly campus
I have been seeing many recently. UIUC holds its own or is much better than most.
Maybe this means “doesn’t have the cool new dorms” that many do? 4 students and a private bath seems to be quite common now. It’s like a little two bedroom apt.
Comment by Pat C Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 12:00 pm
—t Michigan, which is astronomical in price.
For outstaters. It’s cheaper than Illinois for instate tuition. Madison is $5,000 cheaper for instate students and is generally closely ranked iwth UIUC
Comment by ArchPundit Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 12:03 pm
The appointed Board of Trustees is a disaster. Chris Kennedy is a very nice man, but what connection or devotion does he have to the U of I? An my perception is that the rest of the BOT is in it more for their own constituencies (they were appointed by PQ) rather than for the interest of the institution. Many, many other things wrong at UIUC (and its not the appearance of the campus), but that’s where to begin.
Comment by Lycurgus Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 12:03 pm
But yet if you want to see the top DI football program in the state you have to go to NIU…
Sorry, couldn’t resist.
Comment by OneMan Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 12:04 pm
What I hear from my neighbors/colleagues is a laser focus on the price of college. Eastern, Southern, ISU and community colleges are preferred to start and save money and lots of parents talk about transferring to a bigger name school after seeing how they first two years go. Unless your child is on a path in engineering or similar top program, I don’t think folks are seeing the value. Even kids I know looking for an agriculture degree are looking primarily at out of state schools. I have several college aged nieces and nephews in northern Illinois and NIU and community colleges are their main considerations.
Comment by Rayne of Terror Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 12:04 pm
MAP grant runs out earlier and earlier - maybe that’s the difference - a student might have picked Illinois with a MAP grant, but without it decided to go out-of-state
Comment by Smells like Arby's Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 12:05 pm
Agreed ArchPundit. I was referring to OOS. He got into both. Very much considered Michigan until the financial aid letter arrived in the mail…They spent more on the stamp than they gave my son in aid of any kind, other than loans.
Comment by PublicServant Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 12:07 pm
As an alumnus of UIUC and parent of a grad and incoming freshman, I think the whole place went to heck when they got rid of the Chief. Just Kidding, Rich!
From what I’ve seen recently, I think a combination of the high cost ($35k average in-state) and some of the attractive deals offered at other colleges are pulling off quite a few students from UIUC. For example, ISU offers a number of comparable programs, many highly rated, for about 2/3 the cost. Across the border, Mizzou makes it relatively easy to get in-state tuition rates, making the cost lower than UIUC.
The other factor with many students, depending on their major, is that if they don’t have super-high test scores and GPA, they can’t get in to UIUC in the first place-that’s the biggest beef I hear from fellow parents and friends. They feel like the foreign students are taking the place of their kids while the Big U makes bank.
Comment by Arthur Andersen Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 12:07 pm
The highest number of foreign students are from China,S. Korea, India, Taiwan. http://www.dmi.illinois.edu/stuenr/#foreign
Comment by a drop in Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 12:09 pm
===Agreed ArchPundit. I was referring to OOS. He got into both. Very much considered Michigan until the financial aid letter arrived in the mail…They spent more on the stamp than they gave my son in aid of any kind, other than loans.
I understand entirely and your point is correct. One of the issues for Michigan and Illinois is that the out of state students aren’t diverse at all. They generally come from well off families. The thing is I would rather have UIUC charge more out of state and less in state.
Comment by ArchPundit Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 12:11 pm
So let me throw this out there one more time–what happens when the Chinese economy hits a downturn?
Comment by ArchPundit Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 12:13 pm
From a friend of mine whose son just turned down a spot at UIUC to attend a lower-ranked university…
Part of the benefit of going away to college are the late-night discussions you have in your dorm with kids from OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY AND THE WORLD who see things DIFFERENTLY THAN YOU, who challenge your carefully nurtured prejudices.
Domestic out-of-staters are about 11 percent of the student body at U of I, compared to about 40 percent at Madison or Ann Arbor. Not a lot of diversity of thought there. Now U of I has a high percentage of International — most of them the sons and daughters of Chinese party hacks. So UIUC, as your post noted is about 10 percent Chinese, 5 or 6 percent from other countries.
My kids chose to (borrow and have me) pay more to go to a school with a more diverse student body.
If you go to Champaign and about 3 out of 4 of your classmates and dormmates are from suburban Chicago, are ya really expanding your horizons all that much?
I think they should recruit more kids from other states.
Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 12:13 pm
Perhaps I can respectfully suggest that it’s time for your nap Mr. Moderator.
UI has become expensive to the degree of cutting more than fat and a little muscle.
UI has admitted many more foreign students.
UI as has been pointed out, is not beautiful as a campus.
UI has taken some tough PR hits in the last couple o’ years.
But….
It’s still considered the Big Bang to kids in school here.
Getting accepted there still hushes the room at cocktail parties.
Leaving there with a degree that says University of Illinois gives students a huge bump in the job search arena.
Any kid who is accepted there makes it a point to tell you that occurred.
Any kid who graduates from there (and parent) shout it from the mountain tops.
The Admissions folks there remain as arrogant as hell…because they can.
It remains a great university with a solid reputation.
Football team sucks. Engineering team could care less.
People will wear orange regardless of the ugliness of the color, just to make damn sure you know where they or their kids went or are going.
The legacy is safe. In China too.
Comment by A guy... Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 12:13 pm
===They feel like the foreign students are taking the place of their kids while the Big U makes bank.===
They are taking their place, AA. But UIUC is far from making bank, they are just trying to survive and preserve the standards of the institution, while the state budget cuts that many here think have no consequence, continue to undermine Illinois families whose children have academically earned a spot, but can’t afford the tuition.
H3ll, they’re thinking of going private if the state will let them, to be able to compete with other top universities in the country.
Comment by PublicServant Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 12:14 pm
===Domestic out-of-staters are about 11 percent of the student body at U of I, compared to about 40 percent at Madison or Ann Arbor. Not a lot of diversity of thought there.
I understand the point your friend is trying to make, but the out of state students at Michigan and Wisconsin are hardly diverse–they are largely from rich families who can afford the out of state tuition. They are essentially the American version of the Chinese students at U of I.
Comment by ArchPundit Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 12:22 pm
Do the Illinois state universities make a really solid effort to get out of state students to come here?
I see little evidence of that. Does somebody else know what is being done in this arena?
I realize this does not help Illinois taxpayers but it would help the individual universities.
Comment by Federalist Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 12:23 pm
Unless you attend an elite high school and/or have a high ACT score, graduating in the top 20% will most likely not land you at the UIUC.
Comment by Wally Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 12:23 pm
I wonder what percentage of Chinese students end up staying in Illinois vs. going back to China? If 80% go back to China, I’m concerned. But if 50% stay in Illinois as productive U of I grads, then this seems to me to be a great deal for Illinois.
Comment by Robert the Bruce Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 12:24 pm
Higher education has been a dominant US export for a long time.
It isn’t just the rising tuition at U of I, it is declining financial aid funding.
I suspect that whereas many were drawn to U of I for having the largest Greek system in the country, that has probably changed.
And rated among the best party schools? Please. If true, that only shows how much standards have changed. Chambana has steadily declined since I graduated.
Hash Wednesday used to feature lines of people waiting to smoke from a 12 foot bong perched atop a lifeguard chair.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 12:24 pm
Oh, and as far as campus look and feel, it is the epitome of old ivy stateliness, and the towns of Champaign and Urbana wouldn’t exist, at least not in their current form, without U of I. Lastly, the locals gouge the heck out of the students for off-campus housing. My son was paying $450/month for a bedroom (we call it a basement closet here in Chicago) in a 12 (count em 12) bedroom house. You do the math. Oh, it doesn’t have a swimming pool either, unless you count the basement flooding during the torrential rains they’ve been experiencing over the summer while he’s been down there doing some research.
Whoever said the campus is ugly is just blind.
http://illinois.edu/about/overview/facts/landmarks.html
Comment by PublicServant Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 12:27 pm
Illinois has been a net exporter of college students for decades. IIRC, Illinois sends more of its high school graduates to out of state colleges than every other state except New Jersey.
Yes, it is tough to get into U of I, but that’s in part because capacity is limited. Once they’ve reached capacity, Illinois families have to consider ISU or the directionals, which let’s face it, don’t come near the academic quality as the state’s flagship. Or private colleges. Or another state’s flagship.
Maybe we should expand capacity at UIUC? Right now, there are six Big Ten schools with larger enrollments than UIUC.
Comment by 47th Ward Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 12:28 pm
It also makes it very difficult for ILLINOIS RESIDENT students to get admitted to the majors they want. So, U of Illinois has devised the program called DGS - or Division of General Studies. They say, “Well, you cant get into X because that is full. But we will still admit you. Come here and go to DGS and then explore. The Sky is the Limit! You can apply to a major after you get here and explore.” You get sucked in and you discover after a year or so that the limit is much lower than the sky. You still cant get into the major you want or any other new one you have discovered that is actually desirable because it is filled with foreign students. Now you either have to settle for some other major or transfer to another school to get the thing you really came there to study. But now you have all your new friends and have settled in to UIUC so very few actually switch. They take generic majors and then graduate with a 4 year degree from U of I and end up selling computers by cold calling after they graduate. Very crafty program.
Comment by El Capitan Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 12:31 pm
Agree with comments that this is largely the result of funding cuts over at least a 10 year period. And although the focus of some comments has been on Chinese students, for the colleges and universities it’s really about finding “full payers”. The flagship U of I has a reputation advantage and pricing power, which is much less true of the regional publics like NIU, SIU, etc. Additionally, Illinois has long been the 2nd largest exporter of students to other states (behind NJ). Everybody has a recruiting dock in Chicago….
In today’s higher education market, the state divisional lines (in-state vs out of state tuition) that once existed are toast, and this will only intensify as surrounding states with decreasing populations and seats to be filled like WI, MN, IA, KY become even more aggressive. Enough of my rant, we got some challenges.
Comment by Columbo Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 12:31 pm
47th, I love it when you’re wrong. (Because it almost never happens.)
The issue is not Illinois students voting with their feet. The issue, I believe, is Illinois students being supplanted by foreign admits, and Illinois students choosing to go to less-expensive colleges that may not be as strong academically as our flagship.
Here are the admissions stats, which I find really interesting:
Total Applicants: 31,454
Male Applicants: 17,621
Female Applicants: 13,833
Total Acceptances: 19,924
Male Acceptances: 11,097
Female Acceptances: 8,827
Acceptance Rate: 63%
Yield: 35%
I am guessing these numbers are skewed tremendously by the various colleges. It’s probably not as competitive to enter the College of Agriculture, while Engineering is really really tough to get in.
Comment by Soccermom Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 12:33 pm
Scroll on down to the bottom for the college stats of the entering freshman class, Soccermom…
http://admissions.illinois.edu/apply/requirements_freshman.html
Comment by PublicServant Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 12:40 pm
If you are a top student, Northwestern and University of Chicago are much better options, especially now that UIUC tuition is no longer low. Not only are the degrees more prestigious, but who wouldn’t prefer to live in Evanston or Hyde Park as opposed to C-U?
Comment by Anonymous Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 12:44 pm
It’s always a bad idea to disagree with you Mom, but based on your stats, roughly two-thirds of the students accepted into U of I enrolled at a different college. Isn’t that voting with your feet?
Comment by 47th Ward Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 12:45 pm
Why has this happened? One huge factor unmentioned thus far is the reign of Rod Blagojevich and the trajectory he set for higher ed in this state.
When Blago took office one of his biggest budget priorities was taking funding out of public universities and putting it in K-12 education so he could say he increased education spending without raising taxes. Then when U of I raised tuition to try to make up the shortfall, Blago put more restraints on them with signing the truth in tuition bill. Until Blago came into office, the U of I had never got more of its money from tuition than state support. Now it does.
U of I does have a lot of bureaucracy and administration nonsense that should be dealt with in cost cutting but as a U of I alum I feel bad for the cuts to instruction (one stark example: my intro journ class prof was a prominent published author/washington post veteran… 2 years later they were using an urbana high school teacher as their intro journ instructor) that have happened and am curious about the changing campus identity with the changes to the undergraduate population since I left about a decade ago.
Comment by hisgirlfriday Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 12:49 pm
Don’t forget our population is 3+/- times that of Wisconsin, Iowa, Missouri or Michigan. To keep those universities filled, they need to recruit out-of-state, which is why Illinois students can get a financial break going to some of these schools - Michigan may be the exception.
On a different note, there was a rumor that UIUC would restrict admissions to a certain number per high school district, zip code, et al in order to spread the enrollment across Illinois. Any truth to that?
Comment by Bogey Golfer Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 12:52 pm
This alum is not bothered by the influx of foreign students, only by the non-admission of in state applicants, many boasting very high ACT scores. Chalk that up to the need for out-of-state tuition revenue. That need stems from poor state funding. But, on the spending side, the university has a bloated and over-paid administration. Like most schools it has taken advantage of easy student loan money to pump up staff salaries. As to the Chinese students, my good friend who is married to a Chinese woman, and who has spent time in China, tells me that a great many educated Chinese are clamoring to get out of China, the US being a preferred destination.
Comment by Keyser Soze Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 12:53 pm
My son, who is an outstanding student( not by my opinion, but by GPA, rigorous coursework and those almighty entrance test scores) applied to 6 state universities, 3 Big Ten. He received merit scholarships to every single one EXCEPT Illinois. The amount of the scholarships was very substantial and cut the cost of tuition and fees (for several) down to very little. Illinois could have cared less about this home grown, Illinois educated outstanding student coming their way. I am an Alum. It was offensive. We went to orientation in C-U (not necessary since we frequented the campus so often) and were handed a map to walk ourselves around campus and saw a brief power point and that was it. Come if you want. University of Iowa’s tour was an all day event, complete with lunch for all attending and breakfast buffet, tour of dorms, tour of many campus buildings, deluxe bus touring the campus and to top it off, significant recognition of my son’s hard work as a high school student. It was a very welcoming and warm experience. It was cheaper for this ILlinois resident to go to ANY of the other public universities he applied to other than his own state university. Four years later, and degree in hand from Hawkeye University, my son had such a wonderful experience and claims he’d do it exactly the same—not a single regret. My younger son, 17 has already been accepted at Iowa and also is a recipient of a generous merit scholarship that will significantly help our family. He did not/will not apply to Illinois.We cannot afford it because of lack of monetary recognition of achievements. As an alum, I am ashamed of U of I’s treatment of it’s own top state students. Are they being dissed to make room for China’s students and other internationals? Some might think so. If this enrollment pattern continues, maybe the only students at U of I will be from other countries while our kids go elsewhere and perhaps stay in that state for employment.
Comment by Geronimo Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 12:57 pm
University of Missouri, Its in-state tuition and fees are $9,415 (2013-14); out-of-state tuition and fees are $23,764 (2013-14).
University of Wisconsin–Madison, Its in-state tuition and fees are $10,403 (2013-14); out-of-state tuition and fees are $26,653 (2013-14).
University of Michigan–Ann Arbor, Its in-state tuition and fees are $13,819 (2013-14); out-of-state tuition and fees are $40,496 (2013-14).
University of Illinois–Chicago, Its in-state tuition and fees are $13,406 (2013-14); out-of-state tuition and fees are $25,796 (2013-14).
All from U.S. News. Do not know about aid but out of state does not look cheaper.
Comment by Bigtwich Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 1:03 pm
Older son graduated from college (WIU)in 2004. He had wanted U of I, but even with a very high ACT could not get into Engineering Program. He could have done the general studies, but he took one look at the size of the campus, number of students, and the diversity (he always attended small rural schools), and said no thank you. Started at ISU, and changed majors, transerred to WIU. He’s doing just fine in the work force.
Younger son thought about U of I, but didn’t have the grades/ACT either. Between that and the cost, he did two years at LLCU, and went to SIU. Truth was U of I didn’t interest him all that much, also do to his attending rural small schools. Graduated this May, heading back to SIU for Masters in Electrical and Computer Engineering.
Most of his classmates were also from a foreign country - India.
Just a note, a lot of the inner city Chicagoans are going to SIU-C because of the cost, and the easier admission standards for all majors.
Comment by mythoughtis Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 1:07 pm
Sending three kids to UIUC, the professors are phenomenal and job prospects are tremendous–it’s still a world class institution. They need to hack the adminstrative overhead and prove that they want their doors to remain open to the middle-class. No one in leadership wants to make the difficult decisions about dumping outdated programs. They should wind down the UI system approach and save the flagship campus. The chinese need to go–they are the kids of the communist elite, driving mazorettis and showing disdain for american students, they stick to themselves and want no part of joining american culture.
Comment by anon Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 1:12 pm
I was just in China several months ago. 6,000 non-Chinese people enter China every day. 4,000 Chinese leave every day to another country. They are physically building at an incredible rate but they are also heavily investing in education particularly in technology and engineering. They are sending students all over the world to develop a broader world view and bring strong skills home. The cost is almost a minor thought. UIUC is just a sliver of where their students go. They know some students will not return, but go to Beijing, Xian, and Shanghai. These are booming cities where a degree almost sets you for life.
Comment by zatoichi Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 1:30 pm
It appears that many states, not just Illinois, are playing a sort of “musical chairs” game of recruiting out of state students while other states recruit THEIR students:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/02/07/arizona-colleges-out-of-state-students/1899499/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/12/california-nonresident-enrollment-budget-cuts_n_1859840.html
http://www.mndaily.com/2011/11/15/u-boosts-effort-woo-out-state-students
Comment by Secret Square Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 1:31 pm
My theory is to clear room for the Chinese students U of I has been accepting the same real number of in-state applicants but increasing their standards on those admitted knowing that the more highly qualified someone is the less likely they are to actually attend.
Acceptance to U of I has always been curious. Students you don’t think would get in, get in. Students that you’d expect to, don’t.
Strictly postulation.
Comment by North Shore Joe Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 1:36 pm
Bigtwitch, oos compares, but merit aid is the difference. Instate illinois plus 11k housing and no aid is the killer financially, even if you have the stats to be admitted.
Comment by PublicServant Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 1:36 pm
Out of state is not cheaper unless your student qualifies for the merit scholarship my children received. When that amount is deducted from the out of state tuition, in my son’s case, it was less than Illinois’ in state tuition. Couple that with 8K for 20 meals/dorm to 10K for 10 meals/dorm at Illinois and need I explain the difference? I suppose if you are paying the total out of state tuition, then no, it is not cheaper. For us, it was.
Comment by Geronimo Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 1:37 pm
Geronimo hit it on the head. My daughter was offered merit scholarships at numerous public and private schools but zip from U of I. Mizzou offered her enough to make it less expensive to go there than Illinois. She ended up at a very good private school for much less than Illinois would cost. She got an excellent and prestigious education for less. Something is definitely wrong here.
Comment by Illini JD Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 1:37 pm
“Do not know about aid but out of state does not look cheaper.”
A lot depends on how you define “in-state”. Mizzou, for example, defines it pretty loosely according to this Tribune article from 2012. Toss in the automatic scholarships for kids with high ACT scores and you have a deal that’s hard to pass up:
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-11-30/news/ct-met-college-students-leave-illinois-20121130_1_missouri-school-mizzou-students/2
“… non-Missouri students can qualify relatively easily for in-state tuition, saving $12,000 off the $22,440 annual nonresident tuition. To do so, students are required to live in Missouri for 12 consecutive months, meaning they must stay the summer after their freshman year. They also have to earn at least $2,000 a year, have a Missouri driver’s license and voter registration card and meet a few other requirements.
“If you can get the in-state tuition, it is less than Illinois schools or about the same,” Irv Shenderovsky said. His son also hopes to get one of the automatic $2,000 to $5,500 scholarships provided to nonresident students who score at least a 27 on the ACT college-entrance exam.”
Comment by Secret Square Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 1:40 pm
My son graduated from High School two years ago and wanted to get an engineering degree. He was accepted at Missouri University of Science & Technology (MO S&T)in Rolla, MO and UIUC (both good engineering schools.) He was offered $13,000 per year in academic scholarships to attend MO S&T which put the tuition and fees (out of state)at about $20,000 per year. He was accepted into the General Studies program at UIUC and offered no scholarships. In the end it was less expensive to attend Missouri S&T and he was guaranteed entrance into an engineering program.
Comment by St. Louis Bob Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 1:41 pm
Sorry for the correction. Out of state tuition, fees, and housing (dorm) is approximately $34,000 per years at Missouri S&T. Our cost was $21,000 per year after deducting the $13,000 in scholarships.
Comment by St. Louis Bob Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 1:46 pm
St Louis Bob, no offense but U of I Engineering is ranked 5th in the nation overall. MO S&T, not so much.
Comment by PublicServant Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 1:49 pm
==- PublicServant - Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 12:27 pm:==
There’s a big student housing boom. High rises are going up and prices are rising at the apartments around campus in C-U, but if people were willing to move a little farther out they’d find some steals, which is what I did. Some people just aren’t willing to do an extra 5 minutes each way to classes.
Comment by Precinct Captain Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 1:51 pm
(Some snark intended…) So you Free-Market folks (Cut taxes! Let the marketplace decide!) don’t like it when the marketplace decides? And what about the $40,000’s of dollars/yr that are added to the Illinois economy from outside Illinois? Isn’t that all the pro-business hooplah (opening new markets, blah blah blah) is all about?
That said, my kids didn’t go to UI because (a) it’s too big, and (b) if you going to spend that kind of cheddar, might as well as go to a smaller (and quite possibly cheaper) school that has your own interests in mind and has professors teaching classes instead of TA’s who may or may not have command of the English language (among other reasons.) And as far as the benefits on the resume, I content that’s only as good as your first job. (Rich can probably comment about the boost his interns got by being interns compared to their degree.) After all, a mope with a PhD from UofI and one lousy job on his resume is a mope.
Comment by Skeptic Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 1:52 pm
Public Servant, you are correct about the national rankings, but in St. Louis the number of Missouri S&T graduates far outnumber UI graduates. When it comes to hiring, it’s all about who you know.
Comment by St. Louis Bob Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 1:57 pm
It is true that the reputation of the school’s program is probably only good for the first hire. After that, job performance and achievements take precedence. I know some folks in very high positions from nowhere universities. Sometimes the name is more important to the parents in you know what I mean.
Comment by Geronimo Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 1:58 pm
Precinct Captain, that extra 5 minutes walk coming from a late night stint at an engineering lab can get you mugged. Happens all the time. As for a housing boom, since student population is relatively static, why would more housing options mean raising rents?
Comment by PublicServant Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 1:59 pm
Gotta disagree Geronimo. There’s no comparison between a top 5 engineering college and one ranked 59th in terms of the professors and the educational, research and job opportunities available, anecdotes aside. Where you start on the job ladder makes a difference, as does where you get that first job and who you get experience from. That being said, it’s all about the individual and anyone can be successful from anywhere, but all things being equal, a UIUC Engineering education can only be had at, I’d say maybe 10 other engineering schools in the nation.
Comment by PublicServant Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 2:21 pm
When my daughter visited Illinois, they acted as if they were not interested because she didn’t finished in the top 15% of her class. Iowa welcomed her with opened arms. After a whole year at Iowa, she loves it and so glad she didn’t go to Illinois.
Comment by Rufus Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 2:27 pm
With limited seats available and an abundance of applicants, they try to build the best freshman class in each Engineering program. Period. The stats of the entering freshman class that I previously posted give every potential applicant an idea of where they need to be academically to be in the ball park.
Comment by PublicServant Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 2:33 pm
47th — Aren’t you the guy who once said, “I was told there would be no math?”
I was just trying to make the point that it’s not as though UIUC needs to fill up an otherwise vacant class with international students.
Anyway, a couple of things:
1) We don’t know how many of those kids who were accepted but went elsewhere are Illinoisans.
2) We don’t know how many went to a second-choice school because Illinois failed to provide them with adequate financial aid.
3) We don’t know how many actually went elsewhere — i.e., how many couldn’t swing the cost of college and decided to work for a year or two — or 10. That’s not really voting with your feet — it’s being kept outside the voting booth by financial strictures.
Comment by Soccermom Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 2:36 pm
Most businesses today look only at the fact that you graduated from college, any college. The exceptions are usually field specific or job specific, then at that point other factors come into play. How pretty a campus is isn’t important in the overall scheme of things. It’s about grades, knowledge, attitude, desire, drive, focus, ability and etc.
For the most part people from Asia and India are bright, hard working, focused students. Many remain here in the US after graduation. All are hard working and family oriented. They improve our diversity and strength as a nation.
When their economies collapse they will stop coming in large numbers, so best the University prepare for that by encouraging US citizens to attend UIUC.
Comment by Sunshine Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 2:40 pm
Sunshine, I can assure you that the top businesses in a given profession do indeed look at the college you graduated from, and they send their recruiters there in addition.
Comment by PublicServant Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 2:51 pm
Guy, my oldest did UIUC undergrad and Northwestern grad. I think she shouts Northwestern but not particularly UIUC (and she enjoyed her 3 years there)
Comment by steve schnorf Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 3:01 pm
My youngest daughter graduated from the U of I Champaign receiving both her BA and MA from the University. She is now pursuing her PhD at the University of California. The weight of Chinese national students was very obvious from my daughter’s freshman year, when she had a Chinese national as a roommate in her dorm room. While the Chinese student’s reading skills in English and formal writing skills were no doubt very good her oral skills in English seemed astoundingly weak. But she did understand spoken English, but could not converse at the intellectual level of the average U of I student.
Moreover, the Chinese student had really no interest in American culture or what the life and experience was of an American student like my daughter. On the first Christmas Holiday we asked our daughter if her roommate would like to spend the Holiday with our family on a ski trip, at our expense. Immediately my daughter said, no that wouldn’t be a good idea at all. I said fine.
During that Christmas break I got a total earful about the arrogance of her roommate, how she flaunted her wealth and family connections back in China. My daughter even told me she told her once, you know the United States will be surpassed by China and we will be far more considerate of you all as a client state than when the west colonized China. I said - she didn’t really say that did she, my daughter said oh yes she did!
The next school year my daughter was in a different living situation and two of the roommates were Asian Americans, one from the City of Chicago and one from Northbrook. After a football game at dinner during a discussion both of the Asian American students said they found the Chinese national students to be incredibly arrogant and culturally ignorant of Americans. They said that the Chinese students they had contact with only majored in technical areas and when forced to take liberal arts classes they struggled. Both of these kids said they did not want to be associated with the Chinese nationals because they had a bad reputation on campus.
In many ways it was a depressing discussion. But my daughter got a superb education at U of I. As a parent of this U of I graduate I have no regrets in her having attended the University.
Comment by Rod Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 3:02 pm
Oh, and Alabama out of state, where my youngest went last semester (UAB) is about $21,000 tuition/year, I don’t remember what fees were
Comment by steve schnorf Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 3:03 pm
=== steve schnorf - Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 3:01 pm:
Guy, my oldest did UIUC undergrad and Northwestern grad. I think she shouts Northwestern but not particularly UIUC (and she enjoyed her 3 years there)====
If she went to Marist or Mother McCauley HS, neither UI or NW could drown that out! I have a UIUC grad and that child never lets the siblings forget it!
Comment by A guy... Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 3:07 pm
Public Servant, this isn’t Econ 101. Students (or their parents) will eagerly pay more for a shiny new spot in a highrise overlooking Campustown with flatscreens on the wall and a health club than a rode-hard place in the shadows of Abbott Power Plant.
Comment by Arthur Andersen Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 3:08 pm
Forbes just had UIUC ranked 3rd within the Big Ten with only Northwestern and Michigan ahead of it in their national rankings. Forbes also gave UIUC high marks last year for student placement and employer recruiting. So, I don’t know that there is any issues with quality of the educational experience. Not yet anyway.
Comment by Budget Watcher Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 3:16 pm
State GRF support has gone from ~ 60% to ~15% over the last 50 years or so. These are ballpark so if anyone has the exact numbers please let me know. UIUC on its way to essentially being a private university. Just like the rest of the USA all you need to know is that you and your family are on your own. Accumulate a large amount of money, a gated community to live in and you will be fine, oh, don’t forget the barbed wire and bullets you will eventually need. Screw everyone else because after all, you did this all on your own because you happened to pick the right parents.
As far as the campus goes, my youngest son who will be a senior in computer engineering at UIUC tells me the view is just fine from the engineering library and labs where he spends the majority of his time outside of class, not that he complains about it. In fact he thanks us for the opportunity his mother and I have provided so that he can work his tail off, learn and achieve at a great university. He also thinks it is pretty nice that he choose to be born in the good old USA.
An engineering degree from UIUC still means something wherever you came from. And the money has to come from somewhere, and since the very fortunate and well off in this country have bought the politicians that make the rules that starve government to the point where you can drown it in the bathtub (thank you Grover Norquist, Ronald Reagan, et. al.) we are the country we are right now.
Comment by Shakey Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 3:20 pm
Another problem at Illinois are the teachers and grad assistants who have not mastered English. I am not trying to be politically incorrect here but this is a huge problem at Illinois as is registering for classes. The night registration end for him my son stayed up all night working on this fall’s class registration (he had to keep refreshing his computer hoping that one seat would open up in a required class that is only offered once each year). If the university admits students, it should offer enough seats for them.
Comment by Illiniforlife??? Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 3:23 pm
Illinois has so underfunded higher education it’s cheaper to go out of state and pay out of state tuition than it is to go to Illinois schools and pay in-state tuition.
Comment by Ahoy! Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 3:38 pm
IllliniforLife - the problems you describe aren’t unique to UIUC, but I can tell you that all professors, tenure-track or adjuncts, are vetted for language skills, as well as academic credentials when they’re hired. Some, however, still seem to squeak through, however, but my son tells me that wasn’t a problem for him in his classes, at least. As for only offered once a year, in upper division core classes are usually only offered once a year as the full professors alternate between them. This occurs all over. It does pose problems. Especially when a student comes in with a lot of AP credit.
Comment by PublicServant Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 3:41 pm
Sorry about that Public Servant. I meant to say “The exceptions are usually field specific or job specific….” A degree from a prestigious school is only part of the equation.
Would be interested to see employment rates from the various colleges. Perhaps that would be a good barometer of where one needs to attend? Any facts in that regard?
Comment by Sunshine Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 4:32 pm
When I was studying overseas I was often accused of being arrogant. It isn’t arrogance - we are overcompensating.
Its complicated.
Americans pretend to be friendly to everyone and that isn’t normal in most parts of the world. We talk to strangers. We interrupt their private space with our small talk. Consequently, a lot of people respond to us cynically, wondering why we are acting like we know them.
Additionally, Americans pretend to be friendly, but just walk away after having sometimes very personal conversations with strangers. That is another very odd trait. It takes a while for other cultures to understand that is how we communicate.
We need to give foreign students time to open up, then reward them with real friendship. In other cultures, once a friend, always a friend. In the US, where we have centuries of building new relationships in empty lands, we are used to be fair weather friends and our feelings are not hurt when someone we like decides not to go to a party after accepting an invitation, for example.
Comment by VanillaMan Friday, Aug 1, 14 @ 4:47 pm
I am tired of the negative comments about Illinois’ scenery. Must be from kids that could not get into Illinois. The last business insider review had Illinois as one of the top most beautiful campuses (have you seen the quad and the engineering quad?). Indiana and Iowa were not even on the list. Wisconsin was but the problem with Wisconsin is weather. Kids do not get to enjoy Madison because they are not in session when the weather is its best.
Comment by Steve Saturday, Aug 2, 14 @ 1:10 pm
So as someone that looks at this…
This is a direct result of loss of state appropriations. When adjusting for inflation, appropriations have long been in decline for this university. In fact, Pre-recession from 2002-2007, it was an average of -30 million dollars taken away per year. Since the recession it has been -8 million, but eventually the state will find its way to zero based on Pre or Post or even Decade trends…
There is plenty of research Slaugher & Rhoades, Weerts & Ronca, Doyle and Delaney, that suggest when the state reduces its financial commitment, the university will find increased revenue.
Now, the problem is not actually international student enrollment as they subsidize domestic student tuition still. The problem is we lose billions of dollars by forcing most out of the country due to limited H1B visas and terrible pathways to visas. Holden (2009) and Tang (2013) make this argument explicitly.
We are shooting ourselves in the foot by being so exclusive and kicking out Americanized, American trained people who wish to stay here.
One final note, their mid tier students rival some of our best student as far as academic performance in STEMs go. UIUC literally cannot fill this place up in STEMS and keep the same level of prestige because of our domestic lower educational policies and practices.
Comment by DC Monday, Aug 4, 14 @ 11:15 am