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IDPH wants to ban beer garden smoking

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Illinois

* I don’t know how I missed this, but the Illinois Department of Public Health has filed proposed rules which will pretty much spell the death knell of smoking areas in beer gardens…

Smoking is prohibited in a restaurant, bar and any area where food, beverages, or both, are prepared or served by employees, including outdoor areas such as patios, beer gardens, decks, or rooftops or concession areas.

The only exemption will be for “self service areas”…

“Self-Service Outdoor Area” means an area or location where no employees are present and customers may serve themselves food or beverages or both and clean up the area after consuming their food and beverages. This area is not a place of employment because employees do not prepare or serve food or beverages in this area, and are not required to enter, leave, or pass through this area during the course of employment.

The public comment period expires September 29th. Click here to submit a comment to IDPH.

posted by Rich Miller
Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 4:14 pm

Comments

Since there us a requirement that smoking be done at least 15 feet from the door of bars, this stands to reason. A lot of beer gardens are not very big.

Comment by Tom Joad Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 4:19 pm
Pretty soon you won’t be able to drink anywhere without getting some non-smokers’ clean air in your clothes.

– MrJM

Comment by MrJM Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 4:24 pm
Oh come on!
No one is being injured by second hand smoking in beer gardens! This is ridiculous. We’ve got thousand of businesses who have spent millions building outdoor gardens to accommodate their patrons. Now, the State wants to drop kick them again? A lot of these establishments don’t even have these investments paid off.

This is sheer over kill.

I’ve never had a problem with any smoker accommodating me if their second hand smoke blows my way. People are basically cautious about not being thoughtless about this.

Butt out! No one needs this.

Comment by VanillaMan Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 4:26 pm
The cynical side of me makes me wonder which electronic cigarette firm paid off somebody in the Department of Public Health to file these proposed rules to further encourage the purchase of e-cigarettes. Not that anybody in Illinois state government “would ever” enact legislation or initiate policy changes to profit off of the public due to their governmental position. Oh, no. Perish the thought.

Comment by Coffee Cup Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 4:32 pm
It’s about time. I’m so tired of being subjected to other people’s cancer causing toxic waste. And being forced to pay for it in the form of higher health insurance premiums just adds insult to injury. Why should 80% of people be subjected to the nasty habits of the 20%?

THANKS YOU IDPH

Comment by Not an ashtray Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 4:35 pm
Nanny state. You give those do gooder lobbyists an inch and they take a mile. There are many small business owners who built these beer gardens just to survive. You don’t like it, drink at home in with your Nanny.

Comment by Tom Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 4:39 pm
Too much. Indoors is understandable. But unless you’re pulling all the cars off the streets this is not a second-hand-smoke public health measure.

Comment by wordslinger Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 4:39 pm
Of course, there’s nothing to stop beer garden owners from banning smoking on their own. Some do, and it’s their competitive niche.

Comment by wordslinger Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 4:41 pm
I don’t care one way or the other. I just don’t go outside to the beer gardens if I go to one of those places.

But it would be nice to ban smoking entirely in public places. That would be fine by me.

Comment by Demoralized Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 4:43 pm
“You don’t like it, drink at home in with your Nanny.”

And if you don’t like it, drink at home with your Nurse.

– MrJM

Comment by MrJM Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 4:45 pm
Many of these beer garden are enclosed. IDPH is closing a loophole. Also they are protecting employees. Good for them.

Comment by ChiefM Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 4:48 pm
This is a rare situation where government is doing the right thing. If you want to smoke in your private “beer garden” at home, nobody is stopping you. The fact we have a “beer garden” is a more interesting question about society.

Comment by Brass Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 4:50 pm
If you don’t like the smoking ban, perhaps you should stay home and smoke with your fellow smokers! Why make the 80% miserable?

Comment by No thanks Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 4:50 pm
I believe that should read “IDPH wants to ban smoking”.

Comment by anon Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 4:52 pm
===Why make the 80% miserable?===

You’re miserable in Boone’s beer garden? I find that hard to believe, unless you are a naturally miserable person.

Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 4:54 pm
Not helpful at all to pat quinn. He needs this demographic–both the patrons and owners. This could have waited a few weeks, after the election, and cold weather reducing usage.

It is a self inflicted wound. Lack of knowing whats going on. Lets talk about it tonight, in the beer garden, watching the bears. Dumb.

Comment by Langhorne Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 4:57 pm
This is typical of Governor Quinn and other administrations. It get progressively worse every year where they try to rewrite statute.

1. Banning smoking in beer gardens.
2. Overkill in the fracking rules.
3. Tried to kill coal & petcoke that Quinn’s own Pollution Board rejected unanimously and a recent USEPA study found NO coal or petcoke in furnace filters in the area.

Comment by 4 percent Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 4:58 pm
Do they include e-cigs?

Comment by Langhorne Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 4:58 pm
I am categorically opposed to extending the Clean Indoor Air Act to a ban on outdoor smoking.

Comment by SAP Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 5:00 pm
I don’t smoke, but this goes way too far.

No inside, no outside, where is the yes?

Let the market decided the beer garden.

The non-smoking on campuses, sure, try to enforce it .

You mess with a social setting, outside, with alcohol being served, the expectation is smoking will occur outside. “Business” should dictate which practice is followed.

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 5:04 pm
– The fact we have a “beer garden” is a more interesting question about society.–

Only if the question is; “Do you like to go out for a beer with friends and enjoy a beautiful day outside?”

Like today?

In 1855, Know-Nothing, anti-Catholic, anti-immigrant Chicago Mayor Levi Boone closed taverns and beer gardens on Sunday, the only day most German and Irish immigrants had off.

That led to the Lager Beer Riot, as the workers marched on old City Hall and Boone brought out cannon and raised the Clark Street Bridge.

So, as you can see, opinions have been mixed on beer gardens for a while, lol. But I dig them.

Comment by wordslinger Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 5:04 pm
A ridiculous overreach. A blatant attempt to end run the Legislature via the rules process. The original statute very clear on smoking areas outside. Many businesses made substantial investments based on the legislation passed. This MUST go before the General Assembly.

Comment by Searchingfortruth Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 5:10 pm
if they are enclosed then they are not exempted from the CIAA today. if there are no employees pouring beer, then there is no wayto control over consumption (i.e. dram shop liability and underage drinking). and how does one control the “drift”? that was the purpose ofthe 15 foot barrier. Control the wind? build a vestibule? JCAR needs to (once again) reject this agency’s grand plan.

Comment by goose/gander Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 5:11 pm
They should ban smoking in Missouri because I think I smelled cigarette smoke coming from there once.

Some beer gardens waft the smoke through the doors every time one is opened. That’s a problem, but by far most are well ventilated and ’spaced away from the entry’ so as to not interfere with the non-smoking patrons.

Now, if Pot were legal….there would have to be a whole new waft strategy.

Comment by Sunshine Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 5:21 pm
This goes too far. I could see if they mandated maybe half the beer garden be a non smoking area. That would not work indoors (as was proposed) but unless you are right next to someone it’s a moot point outside. Another factor is some of bars that have their video gaming machines outside. Some of those have been walking a thin line between being outside or inside.

Comment by Been There Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 5:23 pm
This goes too far. The days of letting a saloon keeper create his/her own environment and prosper or fail with it are long over. Smoking gardens are going to pop up soon enough. Jeez, even the lepers were left alone to their own devices on their islands.
This is heading too fast in the direction it’s going. It’s invasive at this point. I need Bost on this one.

Comment by A guy... Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 5:30 pm
If you don’t like smoking in the beer garden, go to another that doesn’t have smoking.

Comment by FormerParatrooper Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 5:39 pm
Lots of beer gardens in Chicago and points north are semi or completely enclosed. And I don’t know of any that lets you pour your own beverages.

Comment by Cheryl44 Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 5:46 pm
Secondhand smoke has proven, negative health effects on bystanders both inside and outside. The research is clear and undisputed. Your right to smoke is protected, but it doesn’t trump the public’s right to breathe clean air. I support IDPH and I support this measure.

Comment by I like my lungs like I like my water. Clean. Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 5:56 pm
Good catch by Capt Fax
Hopefully it will lite a movement that tells IDPH to go to catching west nile mosquitos
Maybe Mitt can take a side too. And ‘Lexi too!

Comment by circularfiringsquad Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 5:57 pm
It’s about time! Most bars do it correctly but there are those that have exploited the law by making formerly outdoor areas enclosed or nearly enclosed. If you can smell the smoke it is hurting you - indoors or out. Thank you IDPH for taking care of this long time problem!

Comment by Way South of I-80 Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 6:04 pm
Reminds me of the fire marshal, by rule, wanting to require sprinklers.

How long before PQ appts a study commission to slo walk this past the election? 3, 2, 1….

Comment by Langhorne Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 6:04 pm
Years from now a generation will ask what a “beer garden” is for.

Comment by Brass Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 6:12 pm
Good. 100 years from now, kids will think it was absurd that we ever allowed smoking in public spaces.

Comment by Snucka Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 6:23 pm
it’s a beer garden, not a vegetable garden! I’m getting tired of all these rules and I am not a smoker and have no smokers in my family. it’s going over the top.

Comment by Amalia Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 6:35 pm
“Good. 100 years from now, kids will think it was absurd that we ever allowed smoking in public spaces.” I imagine 100 years from now kids will not be allowed to think. It might lead to offending someone someplace and therefore be deemed illegal. I’m sure it will be for our own good.

Comment by Anthony Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 6:46 pm
I don’t think it will take 100 years. Kids in their early 20’s already don’t remember what it was like to have smoking in restaurants and everywhere else.

Comment by Tough Guy Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 6:56 pm
Somebody help me here but were beer gardens not created for smokers to be able to enjoy their habit without upsetting non smokers? Let them go to the bar and get their drink and sit outside and puff.

Comment by Nieva Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 7:02 pm
Seems like a good idea. If bars & restaurants are already smoke free, their beer gardens should be too. I appreciate the ones already doing it - and look forward to a time when they will all be smoke-free. The employees who would be exposed whether they choose to smoke or not should be granted the same safety outdoors that they get indoors. (and I’ll take the perk of enjoying a beautiful day on a patio without any second hand smoke coming my way).

Comment by Anonymous Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 7:13 pm
I’m sorry, IDPH, you have overstepped the bounds of your authority and your purpose with this proposal. Smokers are citizens and smoking cigarettes is legal. However few remain, smokers do have rights, too.

Comment by Responsa Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 7:37 pm
Anthony: It is not 100 years from now. It is today.

Comment by Kama Sutra Records Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 8:11 pm
The beer gardens I go to have fire pits, pet dogs, and lots of happy people. Anyone whining about tobacco smoke needs to sit next a fire pit, or a tiki lamp, or a scented cable, and get bit by one of those pooches.

Puritanical complainers!

Comment by VanillaMan Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 8:30 pm
Yes, because I can only kill myself one vice at a time thank you. Good thing the research on Cell Phones causing brain cancer is “inconclusive”.

Comment by Come on man! Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 8:45 pm
Ok, so these new regs will be delivered from ‘On High’ from the geniuses at IDPH - probably Food, Drugs, & Dairy? Who currently aren’t capable of even doing what they legally have to accomplish.

Oh, that’s right. This little jewel is going to get dropped onto the local health departments, who are already overworked, and now they are going to have to determine (enforcement wise, and legally) what exactly constitutes a “beer garden”.

There are already Counties out there where their State’s Attorney has told their Health Department environmental health staff to not even think about bringing these smoking cases to them. Bluntly, it’s not that important. Complete waste of scarce resources.

Why is IDPH into making up stupid regs? Does anybody really think that the environmental health inspectors are going to tag any food establishment with a beer garden with a critical violation over some customer who decides to light up in their outdoor beer garden?

Somebody at IDPH has way, way too much free time on their hands. Time for some very much needed unpaid furloughs at the State level.

Comment by Judgment Day Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 8:48 pm
Another over reach. Plain stupid.

Comment by john a logan Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 9:01 pm
“I imagine 100 years from now kids will not be allowed to think. It might lead to offending someone someplace and therefore be deemed illegal. I’m sure it will be for our own good.”

Thinking doesn’t cause lung cancer. Smoking tobacco is a horrible public health scourge that should be discouraged at “Good. 100 years from now, kids will think it was absurd that we ever allowed smoking in public spaces.” I imagine 100 years from now kids will not be allowed to think. It might lead to offending someone someplace and therefore be deemed illegal. I’m sure it will be for our own good.”

Smoking is a horrible public health scourge that should be discouraged at every opportunity.

Comment by Snucka Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 10:03 pm
===that should be discouraged at every opportunity. ====

Congrats on your bumper sticker slogan. Now please explain how the statute allows this rule.

Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 10:31 pm
The City of DeKalb passed an ordinance last month that bans smoking and ecigs on restaurant & bar patios where food or drink are served. It took effect in early September.

Comment by M Python Monday, Sep 22, 14 @ 11:20 pm
While we’re at it, could the state get rid of poison ivy in public parks? A lot of people have allergic reactions to it–probably even some park employees or want-to-be park employees (like myself).

Comment by Fed up Tuesday, Sep 23, 14 @ 5:12 am
If they could just ban people eating in restaurants from chewing with their mouth open. Now that would be helpful. Oy.
Never been a cigarette smoker, but have always thought reasonable accommodations could be made in the sandbox. This goes way too far. You let them continue to choose your healthy lifestyle and by golly, it won’t take a 100 years before someone pulls the chips and salsa away and replaces it with rice cakes.

Comment by A guy Tuesday, Sep 23, 14 @ 6:58 am
Rich, in the name of democracy, thanks for posting the link for the public comments.

I think it is worth noting that rooftop decks are becoming more-and-more common in Chicago, are considered part of the bar’s capacity, and not the exclusive space of the smoking crowd.

On a recent trip downtown, I was amazed by the number of smokers on the sidewalks, outside of building exits.

You just don’t see that in the suburbs the way you do in some other places.

And it makes me think that this is probably not going to be as unpopular as you might think.

After all, they are banning smoking at the entire U of I campus, and on Chicago’s beaches, and no one is complaining much about it.

On a completely related topic, how about Rahm calling for decriminalizing pot statewide? Is that guy worried or what?

Or maybe, he figures Karen Lewis has the big money guys so scared that now is his chance to do whatever the heck he wants?

Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Tuesday, Sep 23, 14 @ 7:06 am
YDD, popularity has nothing to do with it. There’s no doubt that the move is supported by the great majority who don’t smoke.

But just like casinos and old-school taverns, beer gardens probably attract a disproportionate number of smokers. There’s no question casinos and taverns got stung by the indoor smoking ban.

Someone mentioned the DeKalb ordinance. One of the alderman pushing the ban said smoking at outdoor patios was “tacky.”

Tacky ain’t public health.

Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Sep 23, 14 @ 7:24 am
Anyone remember the Latin for “Who complains about the complainers?”

– MrJM

Comment by MrJM Tuesday, Sep 23, 14 @ 7:27 am
unless you are a naturally miserable person.

Seem to be a lot of those around this election season man…

Comment by OneMan Tuesday, Sep 23, 14 @ 7:35 am
It’s sad that 15% of the population is so addicted to a carcinogen that they can’t even go a few hours without a “fix”. I just wish these addicts were not so insistent upon exposing the rest of us to their carcinogenic toxic waste.

Comment by Empathetic Tuesday, Sep 23, 14 @ 8:14 am
What about grilles?
Why ban smoking, but not ban BBQ grilles? Burger King and many other restaurants vent smoke from their kitchens. What about camp fires? We have scouts standing around camp fires, breathing in more smoke than anything they could encounter in an outdoor eatery. How could we focus on banning tobacco smoking, yet allow our children to breath smoke from grilles or camp fires?

What about those scented candles? They work by releasing fragrance when they are burned. I know many people who are nauseated by these candles.

What about incense? Does anyone at IDPH realize that we have millions of children who are forced to breath into their lung incense during church services? I’ve witnessed services where incense burners are swung around the room, filling it with smoke.

The tobacco ban set many neighborhood businesses back, and put some out of business. It forced them to build extensions to their businesses, tying up their property previously zoned for patron parking. These businesses spent millions ensuring that these outdoor gardens, patios and dining areas meet legal codes, building codes, and health codes. Many places hired extra help to serve these areas. Literally millions of dollars have been spent in order to accommodate IDPH.

This belief that non-smoker’s health is harmed when they inhale tobacco smoke from those around them has been studied repeatedly, yet inconclusively. Yes, non-smokers often find tobacco smoke distasteful. I clearly remember feeling gagged with tobacco smoke when adults filled public areas with cigarette smoke. I clearly remember smelling my clothes and hair and needing to bath because of it.

Yet, the idea that smoking should be banned from outdoors is excessive and punitive. It defines an air standard that has not been proven hazardous by other government agencies. In its attempt to outlaw what it considers to be a public health problem, it is in actuality, discriminating and criminalizing what is, at worse, a public nuisance.

This is bad law.

Comment by VanillaMan Tuesday, Sep 23, 14 @ 8:22 am
To use the language of the global warming community…..”the debate is over. It has already been decided”. EPA says that second hand cigarette smoke causes 3,000 deaths per year. Anybody that disagrees is just a “denier”. Besides…”97% of credible scientists agree”.

Comment by Empathetic Tuesday, Sep 23, 14 @ 8:34 am
For crying out loud, Emp, you don’t have to go into science denial to think a smoking ban outdoors is more of a cultural issue than a public health issue.

Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Sep 23, 14 @ 8:48 am
==No person shall smoke in a public place or in any place of employment or within 15 feet of any entrance to a public or place of employment.==

Rich — a beer garden is clearly a public place and a place of employment. Since 2008, the smoking rate in IL has declined. I believe that placing restrictions on public smoking is a big factor in that decline, and so I support this rule clarification.

Comment by Snucka Tuesday, Sep 23, 14 @ 9:04 am
Sorry Slinger, but “the debate is over. Don’t be a “denier”. Smoking kills. We need to do this “for the children”. After all “even if we save one life, isn’t it worth it”?

Comment by Empathetic Tuesday, Sep 23, 14 @ 9:10 am
Emp, you might want to keep a hankie around for when you hear Pavlov’s bell.

Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Sep 23, 14 @ 9:14 am
I’m a smoker, but I have no problem with this proposal. What does irk me, though, is the stupid ban on E-cigs in bars and restaurants in Chicago. That seemed like a ridiculous overreach to me.

Comment by ??? Tuesday, Sep 23, 14 @ 9:19 am
the real reason is soon to come medical marijuana (ban all smoking now)

Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Sep 23, 14 @ 9:24 am
Employees should be able to work in smoke free environments. That includes servers who put down in front of people what the Big Bang Theory calls “confidence accelerators” … . Or do we regard them as a lesser class of person who is entitled to lessor level of public health protection?

Comment by Anyone Remember Tuesday, Sep 23, 14 @ 9:27 am
Oh no, no smoking in beer gardens!!!! How will the world survive????? (Rich, how have you survived all these years having to step outside a bar to have a smoke? I’m surprised you’re still in such good humor….)

All those businesses made million dollar investments and now they’re being punished again!!!!

My god, if I hear any more of the old, worn out clichés and arguments about businesses being abused by the “Nanny State,” I might have to take up smoking!

Any business person who bothered to read the original law should at least have had an inkling that there is no smoking in public places and ALL places of employment — never anywhere, inside or out! The ones who “invested” in outdoor beer gardens made a poor, risky business decision that put them at a competitive disadvantage with businesses who followed the law. Good! That’s not nanny state, that’s good old American capitalism!

Having a smoking section at an outdoor bar is like having a peeing section at an outdoor pool. So, Rich, I’ll drink at your outdoor bar if you swim at my pool. Will that bother you? Same with me at Boones!

Comment by Mark Peysakhovich Tuesday, Sep 23, 14 @ 9:56 am
Why would you stop smoking in beer gardens? Are you trying to hurt businesses? First you stop smoking inside so businesses go out and get a loan to accomodate people to be able to smoke outside and now you want to stop smoking outside! What will be next?!

Comment by VERY UPSET!!!! Tuesday, Sep 23, 14 @ 11:39 am
This ban would up my attendance at certain establishments. There are a few beer gardens that I tend to avoid despite loving, because they consistently smell like smoke. Isn’t the point of drinking outdoors to enjoy the outdoors and fresh air (or as much as you get in the city)?

Comment by More likely to patronize smoke-free gardens Tuesday, Sep 23, 14 @ 12:24 pm
I would be more likely to go to a beer garden if I could go to a smoke-free environment.

Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Sep 24, 14 @ 10:42 am