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* Gov. Bruce Rauner as quoted by WAWV TV, in Indiana’s Wabash Valley, just across the border from Marshall, IL…
“We’ve been cutting school funding in Illinois for a long time. We’re number 50 out of 50 states,” he said. “We’re dead last on state support for education. That’s wrong and I want to change it.”
I believe he’s referring to here is state support as a percentage of all education spending, including local spending. We’ve been at or near the bottom of that ranking for decades.
That’s kind of a misleading figure because just about all states require local school districts to pick up the full employer pension payment. Illinois picks up that tab, but doesn’t count it as part of its support for schools, which is odd.
* Anyway…
Republican Gov. Bruce Rauner’s call for a two-year freeze on property taxes stems from a a simple truth: Nobody wants to pay more of the most-hated tax of all.
The new governor’s populist proposal figures to be embraced by businesses and homeowners, who have long complained that their property taxes are too high and crave a respite from years of increases.
But local officials whose schools and government operations rely on property taxes worry how they will get by if Rauner’s proposal for a freeze goes through.
“Well, people will try to argue that,” Rauner said at a stop to discuss his initiatives in downstate Troy on Thursday. “But here’s the issue: Our property taxes are too high. We’ve got to bring them down.”
So, if he successfully manages to freeze local levies for two years, and manages to increase state spending on pre-K-12, then Illinois may move up that aforementioned ranking of state support as a percentage of all education spending.
Or maybe I’m reading too much into this.
Your thoughts?
posted by Rich Miller
Friday, Feb 6, 15 @ 10:30 am
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===So, if he successfully manages to freeze local levies for two years, and manages to increase state spending on pre-K-12, then Illinois may move up that aforementioned ranking of state support as a percentage of all education spending.===
As an optic, I agree.
If Rauner gets Illinois’ percentage of state funding to increase, by manipulating a lower number from the locals, making any and all monies have a higher percentage weight, yeah, it’s a great way to appear to bring the state in at a higher percentage.
Manipulating data by changing the variables in the equation?
Isn’t this a way to make stockholders happier too? Change the way the data reads by making the numbers, in the variables, lead to a desired result?
Rauner wants to drive results. Rauner said that. Not me, Rauner touts that.
Results.
Not how you get there, but the result.
I see the point. I see the map. I see the results coming out as Rauner wants.
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Feb 6, 15 @ 10:41 am
Like I said yesterday, his proposal will only hurt local governments, while not noticeably impacting real estate tax bills.
Comment by Old Shepherd Friday, Feb 6, 15 @ 10:43 am
Allowing local school boards to shop for the best administrators, even if they retain only the highest priced administrators, empties the state coffers and deflects the money from the students. Allowing local school boards access to a checking account without restrictions or governance can only lead to “50 of 50″.
Comment by WhyMe Friday, Feb 6, 15 @ 10:45 am
I never understood why the State’s pension payments didn’t count either. Obviously, money spent on teachers salaries count toward total education funding, which includes their contributions to the pension system.
I assume the numbers are based on what the school district can spend, and therefore the State’s pension payments are not included. I would then say the stat is misleading.
Comment by Salty Friday, Feb 6, 15 @ 10:49 am
This would be a good time for cost shift of pensions to employers rather than the state, but a separate grant for pension help should be created. There should be equality throughout the state that the grants for pensions be based on average teacher salary throughout the state, based upon a 180 day school year, exclusive of “extras” like coaching, extra curriculars, and summer sweeteners that many suburban districts use to bloat pensions. If a district chooses to continue to overpay its staff and continue “end of career spiking”, that’s on their dime….as it always should have been. Of course, I’d like to see this coupled with prohibition of the education staff’s “right” to strike so that the necessary adjustments to pay schedules, as well as more equality for equal pay for equal work, can be accomplished without disruption to the education process. 41 states have made this functionally necessary change, and it’s time that Illinois caught up with the crowd.
Comment by Arizona Bob Friday, Feb 6, 15 @ 10:52 am
PROPERTY TAXES FUND LOCAL SCHOOLS
Comment by flea Friday, Feb 6, 15 @ 10:54 am
Freezing taxes sounds good to everyone. However when you pair this with cost shift of pensions to local districts, receiving only two (or 3) MCAT reimbursements and proration of GSA, and even with $500 million more (SB1) districts will not be able to continue to implement the myriad of state mandates (SB7; standards Implementation; 5 essentials; PARCC; etc.).
Comment by Mark Friday, Feb 6, 15 @ 10:58 am
First Rauner needs to count in teacher pension costs as part of the state financial support for education. Then we can talk about moving up any actual ladder.
IPI and at least a dozen other big advocacy groups, from autism, to prison reform, to tort reform, to taxes, to guns, to mental health, to early childhood, to business startups, to education, will claim to their members and the press that “Illinois is 50th out of 50 states” in whatever. It has never turned out to be actually actually true, in my experience, when reviewed.
Has any mayor, school superintendent, or county head yet pledged to freeze or cut their next tax levy in response to Rauner’s call for shared sacrifice?
That’s where it has to start, or it’s all just hot air. They shouldn’t be allowed to continue to blame the state for their own inaction and waste.
Comment by walker Friday, Feb 6, 15 @ 10:59 am
Illinois also ranks near the bottom when we compare money sent to Uncle Sam versus money received from Uncle Sam. Real estate taxes and income taxes can be deducted on Federal Form 1040. Other taxes cannot.
= = =
Also too, I hate paying stormwater utility “fees” more than I hate paying real estate taxes.
The label “fee” annoys me as it truly is a disingenuous label. It’s a rain tax not a fee.
Comment by Bill White Friday, Feb 6, 15 @ 11:00 am
I’m pretty sure the state pension payment does count when looking at National Center for Education Statistics (which is were the 50 out of 50 state comes from). Take FY12, NCES has state payment at $9.385 billion. General fund PreK-12 budget was $6.750 billion. Pension payment (debt and normal) was $2.406 billion. $6.750+2.406 = $9.156 which is in the ballpark of the NCES figure (which might not include PreK).
Comment by REO Friday, Feb 6, 15 @ 11:02 am
=Allowing local school boards to shop for the best administrators, even if they retain only the highest priced administrators, empties the state coffers and deflects the money from the students. Allowing local school boards access to a checking account without restrictions or governance can only lead to “50 of 50″.=
What? Ridiculous. Dopey.
IF the state was going to poney and address more of their statutory responsibility, THEN schools could and some would. I cannot speak for everyone, we have lowered our tax rate for 4 consecutive years and the levy has been flat. We have reduced spending by almost 20% in 5 years (actual not adjusted dollars). I suspect there are many districts that would not lower their tax rate. If you are a PTELL district the concern is that you cannot get the rate back if you actually do need it. PTELL can actually work to increase costs locally versus reduce for that very reason.
By my last count 38 counties have PTELl. Funny thing is the state goes back and skims money from PPRT and GRF to provide schools in those counties with an offset. CPS is the big benefactor of that supplement. Yet the people of those counties sent a clear message.
The governors proposal also serves to further erode local control. People whine about local school board decisions but fail to do anything about it come election time. All of his pandering rhetoric fails to acknowledge the fact that all of these limiting options are already available locally. PTELL, Consolidation, Board elections (school, county, township etc.) are available to concerned citizenry. Diminishing local control because the citizens of Illinois are unwilling to do it? Does not sound like limited government to me.
Comment by JS Mill Friday, Feb 6, 15 @ 11:03 am
Less property taxes= less services to constituents-period-unless other funding sources are found. To schools, less funds means fewer teachers, fewer class options, fewer supplies… which teachers end up buying out of their own pockets…
Comment by downstate commissioner Friday, Feb 6, 15 @ 11:07 am
How does his plan help the students or the teachers? Does freezing local taxes improve education or is it just using smoke and mirrors?
Comment by Mama Friday, Feb 6, 15 @ 11:08 am
If Rauner can find money somewhere to raise foundation levels (or just actually meet the current ones, instead of continuing to “prorate”) for poorer school districts, he has my full attention. That seems the most relevant, rather than what % share of what is spent how, as a matter of budgetary optics.
Comment by ZC Friday, Feb 6, 15 @ 11:08 am
=Allowing local school boards to shop for the best administrators, even if they retain only the highest priced administrators, empties the state coffers and deflects the money from the students. Allowing local school boards access to a checking account without restrictions or governance can only lead to “50 of 50″.=
Um…thank you but I am happy with the ELECTED OFFICIALS in my community making the financial decisions to further education in my school district. And when I’m not I will vote for new elected officials.
Comment by Politix Friday, Feb 6, 15 @ 11:15 am
Interesting fact check from Eric Zorn’s column on Rauner’s Illinois-Indiana school funding/taxation meme:
“He found time to tell his audience that “the average homeowner in Illinois pays more than three times the amount of property taxes as a homeowner in Indiana.” But he did not find time to note that Illinois’ average property values are 46 percent higher than in Indiana, that property taxes pay 58 percent of the cost of public elementary and secondary education in Illinois but only 36 percent of those costs in Indiana, and that, all sources combined, Illinois spends 27 percent more per pupil than Indiana does.”
Comment by TRT Friday, Feb 6, 15 @ 11:17 am
REO: Thanks for the cite. The NCES does indeed have some good info. Still looking at it.
Comment by walker Friday, Feb 6, 15 @ 11:20 am
The State pension payment is reported as State funding on school district financial reports. So it is counted. One could argue that the figure is inflated since almost 80% of the State pension payment is paying off the unfunded liability
or debt from past payment shortfalls
Comment by Archimedes Friday, Feb 6, 15 @ 11:23 am
The “sweeteners” mentioned above, such as coaching, extracurriculars and summer projects? Hate to burst the bubble, but many schools have a terrible time finding qualified (and sometimes unqualified) people to do this work. It’s far more time than you can imagine and unless you live with someone who does this you really are clueless. Many schools have to look outside their staff to fill positions, as is the case in our local school (head football coach). These jobs are not gold mines nor are they the jobs of simpletons as so many would love to believe unless any breathing body will do for your child.
Comment by AnonymousOne Friday, Feb 6, 15 @ 11:23 am
===We’re number 50 out of 50 states===
The governors comments appear to be at odds with the latest U.S. Census Bureau census of financial data for units of state and local government. In its May 2014, the latest available, report titled “Survey of School System Finances” (http://www2.census.gov/govs/school/12f33pub.pdf) table 11 ranks the 50 states plus DC according to per pupil public elementary revenue and spending. According to the Census Bureau, Illinois schools (elementary and secondary) rank 14th of 51 in total per pupil revenue (with ‘total’ meaning federal sources plus state sources plus local sources). Total revenue per pupil in Illinois is listed as $14,074 vs an average of $12,331 for the nation as a whole. Based on current spending per pupil, Illinois ranks 16th of 51. For Illinois the total current spending is listed as $12,015 vs an average of $10,608 for the nation as a whole.
Looking at the other Census Bureau in table 11 of the report, one sees that while per pupil revenue from state sources is low in Illinois, revenue from local sources, mainly property tax revenue, is high. When the revenue to school systems from federal, state, and local sources are added together the result is above average revenue on a per pupil basis in Illinois. The above average total revenue per pupil allows Illinois school systems to spend an above average amount on a per pupil basis.
With local property taxes in Illinois providing an average of 57% of school revenue, according the Census Bureau report, a freeze in property taxes will have a major impact on school system revenue.
Comment by Anonymous Friday, Feb 6, 15 @ 11:34 am
“Many schools have to look outside their staff to fill positions, as is the case in our local school (head football coach).”
Then why is the school sponsoring a football team?
Comment by Chris Friday, Feb 6, 15 @ 11:36 am
=== TRT - Friday, Feb 6, 15 @ 11:17 am:
Interesting fact check from Eric Zorn’s column on Rauner’s Illinois-Indiana school funding/taxation meme:===
In the Chicago suburban area, property taxes are beyond white hot as an issue.
Do a micro-comparison of NW Indiana, which is commonly considered part of the Chicago metro suburban area vs. their counterparts across the state border. The demos are more similar, and home values more in line with one another. Do the same formula.
Comment by A guy Friday, Feb 6, 15 @ 11:36 am
Rauner proposes to freeze the levies, but that won’t protect homeowners from increased tax bills, which can happen due to the ongoing shift in tax burden from commercial and industrial property to residential. So schools will have higher bills but no higher revenue.
Comment by anon Friday, Feb 6, 15 @ 11:45 am
=Then why is the school sponsoring a football team? = Because kids want to play. Sheesh!
It is getting harder and herder to get staff to coach and sponsor activities, the level of animosity directed their way by parents can be withering and gets very personal.
Comment by JS Mill Friday, Feb 6, 15 @ 11:48 am
We think he meant freezin’ the taxes
That makes all the difference in the world.
Comment by CircularFirin'Squad Friday, Feb 6, 15 @ 12:29 pm
RE: - JS Mill - Friday, Feb 6, 15 @ 11:48 am:
=Then why is the school sponsoring a football team? = Because kids want to play. Sheesh
Kids “want” a lot of things. There is still no reason for the school to fund it, at least to me. It seems like there may be other priorities to fund.
Comment by Bobby Hill Friday, Feb 6, 15 @ 1:13 pm
@Bobby Hill- adults want “a lot” of things too, especially when it impacts someone else.
Involvement in school activities has been well researched. Those kids tend to be healthier and are more likely to graduate from highcschool. They engage in fewer “at-risk” activities and thus are typically less likely to get in trouble with the law or risk their health and safety to things like alcohol abuse, illicit drug use, and teen pregnancy. Investing in extra curricular activities leads to a reduction in welfare, increases earning potential (wage differential between a drop out and a high school diploma are significant, even more so when a diploma leads to a certification, AA or BA degree). It is an investment in your future as well as the kids since it ultimately saves you money as a “taxpayer”.
This is not new.When you don’t think about it and respond with the tired old cliched cut cut, of course you can’t find a reason Bobby.
Comment by JS Mill Friday, Feb 6, 15 @ 1:29 pm
RE: - JS Mill - Friday, Feb 6, 15 @ 1:29 pm:
Yes, if you don’t have a school football team the world falls apart, give me a beak!
Comment by Bobby Hill Friday, Feb 6, 15 @ 1:44 pm
“Rauner proposes to freeze the levies, but that won’t protect homeowners from increased tax bills, which can happen due to the ongoing shift in tax burden from commercial and industrial property to residential. So schools will have higher bills but no higher revenue.”
———————
Pretty much Nonsense. You can’t easily ’shift’ property taxes from commercial/industrial to residential property tax base.
The only ways are (a) successful tax appeals on commercial/industrial properties; (b) Application of different equalization factors (by property class) - and those are calculated upon sales of properties; or (c) TIF, Enterprise Zone abatement (new construction, so not really applicable), or Special Service Areas.
If you look at overall numbers, then the percentages for commercial/industrial property taxes are decreasing, but that’s a symptom of the real problem - our commercial/industrial tax base is being degraded. The marketplace tends to place lower market value on vacant commercial/industrial properties, so guess what, it’s worth less in terms of property tax revenue.
You want a simple answer why? - drive through a lot of communities and look at the vacancies. There’s your answer.
Vicious circle. Rauner is trying to break the circle.
Comment by Judgment Day Friday, Feb 6, 15 @ 1:47 pm
This guy Rauner is like many many pols that like to use selective numbers to make statement and education funding is the most misquoted. Did he include the county income taxes in IN.
Comment by scott aster Friday, Feb 6, 15 @ 1:55 pm
@Bobby Hill- Maybe you didn’t read my post, I will give you the benefit of the doubt. I was speaking to a broader context of extracurricular activities, nowhere in my last post did I mention football. I was speaking about all possibilities. I really don’t care about football, there are others that are pretty good for kids out there.
Maybe you had one too many concussions, or you are just a dope.
Comment by JS Mill Friday, Feb 6, 15 @ 1:56 pm
When you say “Illinois picks up that (pension) tab, but doesn’t count it as part of its support for schools”, it is important to note that in Illinois government, “picks up the tab” means they did not pay the tab. That’s why the pension tab has added up to what it is, and it’s probably why they dont count it.
Comment by Anonymous Friday, Feb 6, 15 @ 3:37 pm
No matter how you look at it, too much money keeps pouring into education without results or accountability. Sent our kid to private school in a crumbling building and students ended up in top colleges. The whole school spending headline is simply a sham and thank G-D we just moved out of Illinois and paying 1/5 of the property taxes!
Comment by No Raise Friday, Feb 6, 15 @ 4:03 pm
Record numbers of students in this state are achieving perfect ACT and SAT scores and college admission requirements keep going up. How can this be if school districts are producing such a defective product? As for finding extracurricular/athletic coaches, obviously those commenting have nothing to do with schools and have no knowledge of how they operate from a staffing perspective. It’s a very common problem–that of finding qualified coaches and sponsors rather than breathing zombies. The football team and school allluded to above is very high profile and excellent in every aspect of education (and extracurricular) When 100s of student athletes come out for the sport there is a need both on the part of students as well as the community that desires this activity to supplement the academic part of their child’s education. I would’ve thought people would be happy that a non-educator would be fulfilling the role of head coach. I thought they were just whining about that salary going toward padding those million dollar pensions they ALL get. Which way do you want it?
Comment by AnonymousOne Friday, Feb 6, 15 @ 4:57 pm