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* This e-mail was entitled “Chicago Credit Downgrade”…
One step closer to going bankrupt due to the out of line pensions. Are you and Karen Lewis ready to float out to the middle of the lake together in shame when the city goes belly up? Just wait until the whole state goes belly up trying to pay pensions such as our former govenor’s pension that is 11, 000 a month. Oh, and what Quinn paid in for his pension will only last 18 months and then the rest of his life will be funded by taxpayers. Read up on it dope, it is all true. The only people that think this is sustainble are either idiots or biased or both. Pension default is headed our way followed by pension reform approved by the US Supreme court, not the crooked pro union courts in Illinois. Reality trumps all, and reality says the pensions are done. Once the state rejects pension reform Chicago’s credit rating will go to junk and with already too high of taxes there will be nothing left to do but go belly up as the mayor has hinted at over and over now. Enjoy the collapse!
Thoughts?
posted by Rich Miller
Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 10:24 am
Sorry, comments are closed at this time.
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Bruce, you really should learn to write in paragraphs. Makes it much easier to read.
Comment by Reality Check Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 10:27 am
Can we try to guess which regular commenter wrote that screed? It sounds so familiar.
Comment by 47th Ward Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 10:27 am
Poking the bear, Rich?
Comment by walker Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 10:28 am
Baron, back away from the keyboard. Put the mouse down. There ya go.
Comment by Roamin' Numeral Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 10:28 am
It’s been proven over the past few years that the State pension ramp can be paid as scheduled and the backlog can be slowly worked down, but you will never convince some people that a 5% or 6% income tax rate is reasonable.
Comment by RNUG Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 10:30 am
Anger! I am angry! My anger gets in the way of me having reasonable conversations! I only support some parts of various constitutions and not others! The only valid reality is my reality! Mad! Yell!
Comment by Lil Squeezy Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 10:30 am
Ms. Arduin,
$30,000 a month and this is the best you can do?
Comment by PublicServant Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 10:31 am
Lil Squeezy: “I only support some parts of various constitutions and not others!”
You mean like the pension defenders who call for a graduated income tax?? Do you agree that they, too, cannot pick and choose?
Comment by Chris Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 10:32 am
It’s hard to think anything about this other than this person is a moron.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 10:32 am
Yes, and enjoy your studio apartment….
Comment by Ducky LaMoore Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 10:32 am
“[Rich] and Karen Lewis”
tis an odd image. Or do you think the author confused Rich with Chuy?
Comment by Chris Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 10:33 am
Let’s break this down;
Karen Lewis - Teachers
Pat Quinn - Pensions.
Pensions out of whack… complaining about sustaining pensions…crooked pro-Union courts…high taxes…
Calling Rich the “D” word almost seals the identity(?)
The only point missibg is the right of teachers to strike(?)
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 10:33 am
Was the ip address from Arizona? To the email, the state already proved it can raise taxes and not collapse the economy. There are cuts to be made, for sure, but more revenue is required. The U.S. Supreme Court will not weigh in on a uniquely state constitutional question. Furthermore… never mind. This person sounds unhinged.
Comment by Demise Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 10:33 am
I couldn’t get the point the writer was getting across…perhaps they should’ve used ALL CAPS.
Comment by Jocko Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 10:35 am
Stay classy.
Comment by QCLib Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 10:35 am
== U.S. Supreme Court will not weigh in ==
Yep. The Federal Court System doesn’t want to be anywhere near this fight over state law. The 7th already rejected one opportunity last week.
Comment by RNUG Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 10:36 am
A silly rant, but there is a Wall Street axiom “Things that are unsustainable end” . . . except in government, I suppose.
Comment by Percival Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 10:38 am
Decent pensions are part of the social contract.
Chicago is a rich city.
Illinois is a rich state.
The United States is a rich country.
The only impediment to paying contractually obligated pensions is a lack of political will to tax rich people & the capital class.
Comment by Carl Nyberg Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 10:40 am
“Are you and Karen Lewis ready to float out to the middle of the lake together in shame when the city goes belly up?”
Let’s look on the bright side here, at least he believes in global warming.
Comment by The Captain Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 10:40 am
No mention of tinfoil in the email. Interesting.
Comment by Jorge Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 10:40 am
Surprised my grandpa hasn’t forwarded this one to me yet.
Comment by Sun Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 10:42 am
Perhaps it was bizaro Carl?
Comment by OneMan Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 10:45 am
My thoughts?
Now is clearly not the time to be cutting back on funding for behavioral health treatment.
Comment by Juvenal Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 10:45 am
“Oh, (while breathing through mouth) and what Quinn paid in for his pension will only last 18 months and then the rest of his life will be funded by taxpayers. Read up on it dope, it is all true. The only people that think this is sustainble are either idiots or biased or both.”
you dont know how pensions work, or dont want to know. employee contributions are not intended to be the sole source of retirement funds. the calculation is: employee contributions, combine with employer contributions, to earn investment income, OVER TIME, to generate the payout promised.
this is a first for me: you are the DOPE.
Comment by langhorne Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 10:48 am
Another victim of repeat after me: ” pensions are evil, pensions are evil, pensions are evil, pensions are evil. People getting them are evil, people getting them are evil, people getting them are evil” Dope.
Comment by AnonymousOne Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 10:51 am
How much is Jim Edgar’s pension these days?
Comment by 2nd Ward Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 10:52 am
You didn’t include the second paragraph when he tell us that he gets his political views from his dog Sam, and that he is a huge fan of Jodi Foster.
Comment by VanillaMan Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 10:55 am
No more traveling to Colorado for this dude. He’s smoking way too much.
Comment by Norseman Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 10:55 am
Commenter: “Did I do good, Mr. Governor?”
BVR: “Why did you come across so moderate? Say what I, I mean, you, really think next time.”
Comment by Central Scrutinizer Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 10:56 am
Rile up the yahoos, why dontcha.
Comment by Keep it Simple Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 10:57 am
Feels good doesn’t it langhorne! You gotta call em as you see em! The subject of this post is a Class 1 Dope.
Comment by Norseman Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 10:58 am
Gov. Edgar’s annual pension is $130,908 from the State Employees Retirement System ($10,909 a month). Since 2001.
Edgar also got $177,630 a year for being a Distinguished Fellow at the U of IL. His annual taxpayer-funded income is $308,538 – $25,711 a month.
Comment by lil' enchililada Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 11:00 am
Is it possible to get people to understand that claiming “what John Doe paid into the pension will be paid back to him in X months, ergo pensions are a ripoff and unsustainable”?
First, this argument doesn’t take into account the employer’s contributions or the investment returns on both the employee and employer contributions.
Second, for every person who earns more through pension payments than what their contributions, the employer’s contributions, and the investment returns equate to, there is another person pays into the system for 40 years and drops dead before he retires. This is a benefit of pooling risk.
It’s not a difficult concept. But trying to argue with/educate trolls is never a fruitful endeavor.
Comment by chi Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 11:01 am
Norseman -No more traveling to Colorado for this dude. He’s smoking way too much.
On the contrary, seems like a very clear case where medical marijuana would help.
Comment by Fred Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 11:05 am
The sky is falling!
The sky is falling!
Comment by Aldyth Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 11:06 am
The wealthy take care of their own.
Comment by Mouthy Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 11:11 am
That’s weird. He types out the “g”s. Why doesn’t he pronounce them?
Comment by Carhartt Representative Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 11:12 am
Not sure the identity of the correspondent, but Rauner refers to him as “The Base”.
– MrJM
Comment by MrJM Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 11:12 am
Rich, I’m intrigued by your posting of this thread, as it’s not a terribly unusual rant on the subject.
More to come? Is it not one of the Usual Suspects? Perhaps someone new?
Comment by Wordslinger Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 11:18 am
===Perhaps someone new?===
I don’t know who the guy was.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 11:23 am
Oh, and what Quinn paid in for his pension will only last 18 months and then the rest of his life will be funded by taxpayers.
As a Finance professor, I do get somewhat weary of having to explain basic concepts like the equity premium and time value of money to people, like this poster, who have minimal knowledge. Anyway, here we go again. Even if it is true that Quinn will recover his employee contributions in 18 months, this would not at all be very far out of line with what a typical Walmart employee could do in his 401k. I modeled this in a spreadsheet, assuming a 35-year career (1978-2013), that this employee earned an economy-wide average wage each year, contributed 6% of pay with a 6% employer match (this is what Walmart actually does) and earned investment returns each year identical to those actually earned by SURS.
Here are what the results showed: total contributions over 35 years (not adjusted for inflation) = $58,623, balance in 401k at retirement = $782,508, initial annual withdrawal (using a 4% rate recommended by financial planners) = $31,300. So if you divide 58,623 by 31,300 and multiply by 12, you get 22.5 months.
Granted, this is a slightly longer payback than Quinn’s alleged 18 months, but the Walmart employee will also get a considerable Social Security benefit (financed in part by employer contributions) that Quinn probably will not receive if he worked for the State his whole career. And, the Walmart employee has virtually zero political risk (at least as far as his 401k is concerned) while Quinn and other ex-State employees must live every day with the worry that the State will eventually find some way to wiggle out of its contractual obligations.
Comment by Andy S. Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 11:24 am
Rich seems so dead sure of his point of view as to presume there simply are no alternatives to it. He’s going to be SO embarrassed and NEVER want anyone he knows to read this hate-filled monologue he’s given. SO embarrassed!!!!!
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 11:25 am
===I don’t know who the guy was.===
Boy was I all wet about it.
Interesting times, this email shows that clearly.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 11:25 am
It operates the same way as Social Security. You mean that most people never liquidate their contributions during their retirement in SS?
Comment by AnonymousOne Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 11:25 am
- Norseman - Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 10:55 am:
No more traveling to Colorado for this dude. He’s smoking way too much.
No way this type of behavior is caused by marijuana- relaxed and mellow would not be terms I would apply to that babbling rant of this DOPE (my first use of DOPE here too
No, this seems more like meth- irrational, angry, run-on thought (paragraph)?
Yeah. Meth.
Comment by Roadiepig Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 11:25 am
what is scary… Is I keep agreeing with word!! this email could actually come from at least 50% of the electorate. Rauner is doing the Anti-Union ‘thing” because they must think it is popular and poll tested. Scary.
Comment by Walter Mitty Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 11:28 am
To the writer of the email - you are obviously very frustrated. So am I. I am frustrated with dopes who want to solve Illinois’ budget problems by reneging on State contracts with her employees.
Comment by PolPal56 Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 11:32 am
= modeled this in a spreadsheet, assuming a 35-year career (1978-2013), that this employee earned an economy-wide average wage each year, contributed 6% of pay with a 6% employer match (this is what Walmart actually does) and earned investment returns each year identical to those actually earned by SURS.
Here are what the results showed: total contributions over 35 years (not adjusted for inflation) = $58,623, balance in 401k at retirement = $782,508, initial annual withdrawal (using a 4% rate recommended by financial planners) = $31,300. So if you divide 58,623 by 31,300 and multiply by 12, you get 22.5 months.=
You make a good case why a 401K would be good for employees in the state of Illinois, since most of them are making more than the average Wal Mart employees you used in your example.
Comment by Apocalypse Now Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 11:39 am
Hey, Roadiepig, my first use of “dope” here, too. Weird badge of honor for this dope, eh?
Comment by PolPal56 Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 11:39 am
Oh, and hey, Rich - “when the city goes belly up,” can I join you and Karen Lewis on the party barge on the lake? Who’ll be playing? And is it open bar or BYOB?
Comment by PolPal56 Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 11:43 am
@Demise
=Was the ip address from Arizona?=
Probably not. We’re straight shooters (both figuratively and literally)and our strong speakouts are pretty public.
=To the email, the state already proved it can raise taxes and not collapse the economy.=
But can it be competitive with the higher business costs in the late, great state of Illinois compared to its competitors? If you measure what happened to job recovery since the tax increase in 2011, Illinois has recovered the least number of jobs it had before the Pelosi and Reid/ Fannie and Freddie driven real estate bubble burst than any other Midwestern state. Illinois was well on the road to recovery when the tax increase showed the job recovery going into the opposite direction. Not good, and there’s pretty clear cause and effect there for Illinois.
=There are cuts to be made, for sure, but more revenue is required.=
Ahhh, there’s the rub. How do you ensure that Springfield will primarily us,e added revenues to address its late bill issues on which pretty high interest is being paid, and making up for decades of failure to fund the public pensions they received the political benefit of giving away like political candy to the unions(at least for teachers who didn’t have to negotiate it and lose salary gains to fund the generous pensions and spiking) and increasing entitlement spending and boondoggle capital work (overpriced from Springfield’s prevailing wage giveaways).
The cuts should have come three years ago, but Quinn and the GA kept on doling out the pork that supports their public employee, union, and entitlement political base, yet didn’t create a plan to pay for it and their pension obligations.
Springfield has to act responsibly to regain the people’s trust before asking for more money. To date, they haven’t earned it.
Comment by Arizona Bob Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 11:45 am
This degree of ignorance about civics and basic accounting is ripe ground for the Tparty tinfoil hat crowd. It also serves the purposes of the State to file its disingenuous brief to the Supreme Court that misleads the financial “crises” supposedly existing by the pension obligation. First, every doomsday prediction is founded on no economic improvement just like the failure to make required state contributions was found on the fantasy that there would be no economic downturn. Second, the predictions are founded upon the irresponsible failure of the state to increase revenue due to political cowardice–not the type of crises justifying use of police powers. Third, the predictions are not founded upon actual retirement projections but worst case expectations to make the numbers as bad as possible.
Comment by D.P.Gumby Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 11:47 am
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Comment by CLJ Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 11:49 am
Goofy letter all the way around, but….
If you and Karen went yachting to the middle of the lake, who would have the wheel?
I saw you wade into Lake Springfield up to your lower ankle, and I’d say, you’re not a cold water guy.
Comment by A guy Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 11:53 am
Did Pat Quinn have 35 years of state service? I know he ran for office unsuccessfully a number of times unclear what he was doing in between successful elections.
Comment by JeffingingChicago Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 11:54 am
Now I have the Floaters “Float On” song stuck in my head - thanks Rich!
Comment by lake county democrat Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 12:00 pm
== can IL be competitive…? ==
AZ Bob, for the answer to your question, see today’s story on this blog from Site Selection Magazine. “Strong Chicago business growth…!
Comment by anon Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 12:04 pm
First, this argument doesn’t take into account the employer’s contributions or the investment returns on both the employee and employer contributions.
Gee, I always thought the Illinois State Board of Investment took all those contributions and buried them in a coffee can in the back yard, and dug them up when someone retires.
Comment by Six Degrees of Separation Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 12:06 pm
Now I have the Floaters “Float On” song stuck in my head
The Floaters’ kind of “floatin’” isn’t necessarily done on a boat. Floatin’ could possibly enhance a raft trip to the middle of the lake, however.
Comment by Six Degrees of Separation Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 12:10 pm
== Did Pat Quinn have 35 years of state service ==
Hard to tell exactly how many years. He had about 20 years as a minimum.
aide to Dan Walker about 4 years (?)
Treasurer - 4 years (GARS)
Lt Gov / Gov - 12 years (GARS)
When he did work for the State, most of his service should have been under the General Assembly Retirement System which has totally different rules in terms of contributions (higher), service accumulation (faster) and payout (higher) when compared to SERS / TRS / SURS.
He also had some Cook County time that is probably included in his State pension via the Retirement Systems Reciprocal Act.
And I’m not sure but there might have been some TRS credit if he did any teaching gigs between holding office.
Comment by RNUG Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 12:12 pm
== buried them in a coffee can ==
shoeboxes in closets are the preferred method
Comment by RNUG Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 12:13 pm
I agree that a 401k would be good for many State workers, if the employer match was as generous as Walmart’s and the State also paid into SS. But then it would cost the State more, not less, to provide this benefit going forward and pay all of the benefits already earned based on previous employment in the existing plan.
By the way, I retired under the money purchase formula in SURS, and that formula works very similarly to a defined-contribution 401k: an annuity is provided based on accumulated investment earnings which, in turn, are based on an 8% employee contribution and a deemed 9.1% employer contribution. If one figured the required state contribution to fund my pension, it would be closer to 15-16% due to the 3% AAI, and this is greater than the Walmart employee (6.2% SS employer contribution plus 6% employer 401k match). But, I am a survivor, in the sense that I am still alive and worked for the State long enough to be eligible to draw a pension - not everyone does, and the State makes money on these folks. Also, private universities typically have more generous defined contribution plans than Walmart, so what I am getting from Illinois is not at all out-of-line with that.
Comment by Andy S. Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 12:21 pm
AZ Bob - “late, great…” Really? Despite the significant problems facing the state, we are not dead nor will we be. Yes, Illinois can and does compete - see other post today on business growth. “Pelosi and Reid…” Wow. Sure, big banks giving risky loans and then selling them off as derivatives had nothing to do with the collapse. As for revenue, if you implement the cuts Rauner wants you will severely damage the Illinois economy because of all the jobs that will immediately be lost. Whether anyone likes it or not, trusts the government or not, it is just reality that new revenue is going to have to happen.
Comment by Demise Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 12:21 pm
LOUD NOISES!!!!!
@AZ “We’re straight shooters (both figuratively and literally)” right Bob, genius you are.
Comment by JS Mill Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 12:37 pm
The med cart must be rollin a tad behind schedule at Sunnyvale.
Comment by Johnnie F. Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 12:48 pm
I am a bit confused, what employer contributions? Ithe was the pension holidays that got us into this mess.
Comment by Huh? Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 12:56 pm
My money is on Railrat.
Comment by man with a plan Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 1:03 pm
Jim Edgar’s legislative pension is $147,000 this year, and he started collecting a SURS pension of $58,000. $205,000 total. But of course, the problem is Pat Quinn’s pension.
Comment by Filmmaker Professor Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 1:12 pm
The note does point out a big misconception. Quinn was never a union employee. So tying unions to big pensions is utter nonsense.
Comment by A Jack Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 1:43 pm
=The note does point out a big misconception. Quinn was never a union employee. So tying unions to big pensions is utter nonsense.=
The Trib & Sun Times have been misinforming this way for years. Their lead ins to “pension crisis” stories cite top dollar executive and universty non-union examples. Then they conclude by pointing to pensions for mostly rank and file union employees as unsustianble.
Comment by Qui Tam Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 2:13 pm
Seems the highest salaries and pensions go to non-union employees. How could the powers-that-be be so misinformed and downright wrong? Does spoil their fun, I’m sure.
Comment by AnonymousOne Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 2:40 pm
I am a retired state worker on a meager pension. I paid into it and I earned it. I just had one medical provider call me today because they were tired of waiting for the State to pay a medical bill - so much for my credit rating. I just hope I don’t end up in one of Rauner’s nursing homes. I guess that would be one way for the State to guarantee a short pay-out.
Comment by Waldi Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 3:00 pm
=Pat Quinn’s pension=
A majority voted to make Quinn take his pension. He was willing to continue working forever. Elections have consequences.
Comment by Bigtwich Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 3:02 pm
For those of you crowing about that ranking based upon “projects” rather than gross domestic product increases, net job gains, and net income increases, I suggest you actually read the article.
A project that cost at least a million dollars and adds 20 employees counts as a “project” and is weighted the same as an Apple plant adding 500 jobs at above average wages and costing over $2 billions with the one down the road from me in Mesa, AZ. They use “small ball” criteria. Adding a million jobs and $20 billion in investment is counted the same as adding a thousand jobs and $50 million in investment by their criteria.
I certainly wouldn’t want to argue for improving Illinois prosperity from that the data in that report.
BTW, the latest data I’ve seen shows Illinois GDP only increased a meager 2.2% between 2013 and 2014. You don’t overcome the current job deficit of about 150,000 jobs lost compared to the pre-Pelosi/Reid recession by that pathetic growth.
When you use numbers that have value, such as real job growth, average family income growth and GDP growth, Illlinois doesn’t fare so well
Comment by Arizona Bob Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 3:25 pm
=== A Jack - Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 1:43 pm:
The note does point out a big misconception. Quinn was never a union employee. So tying unions to big pensions is utter nonsense.====
Not a big deal here, but he was a union employee in high school and college. Not public service. Very good summer jobs where joining was mandatory if you wanted the job. They were good jobs. You wanted the job.
Comment by A guy Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 3:30 pm
===BTW, the latest data I’ve seen shows Illinois GDP only increased a meager 2.2% between 2013 and 2014.===
Pretty much any European country would jump at the chance to have our GDP growth over that period. Thanks for sharing your opinion Bob, but trust me, we don’t need any data from you to know where you think Illinois ranks.
Comment by 47th Ward Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 3:38 pm
Just to put the pension payout issue in perspective, when Jim Edgar and his employer (the government) were first making payments into his pension the stock market was at 1000 or 2000. Now the stock market is over 18,000. This results in compounded capital gains on pension fund assets.
Comment by Enviro Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 3:58 pm
Bob:
It really doesn’t matter what the data shows because you are going to view Illinois negatively no matter what. You have a narrative. That narrative is that Illinois is bad. It’s ok to believe that. Doesn’t make it factual though.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 4:08 pm
Despite the uh, rather picturesque passion of the anonymous emailer, can anyone honestly say that they think the public pensions of either Govs Quinn or Edgar as quoted here are useful or helpful exhibits to convince struggling Illinois taxpayers that they should fork over more money? As smart observers here like to say–”optics are important”. Well, that amount of monthly payment in pensions looks absolutely obscene to most people.
Comment by Responsa Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 4:20 pm
Not me. I come up with more creative epithets than “dope.”
Comment by Streator Curmudgeon Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 4:24 pm
I don’t know, maybe it’s my mood today, but this was another funny one. Hard not to laugh at something that makes absolutely no sense!
Comment by Emily Booth Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 6:01 pm
Average retirement savings for baby boomers is less than $50,000.
This board is way out of touch defending 120k pensions and even Edgar’s 300k.
The average person contributes more towards state worker pensions than their own savings.
This will not go on forever. Democrats vote for spending but not the income tax increase. Democrats in Chicago will not vote to raise property taxes
Comment by Iron Duke Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 6:08 pm
- The Captain - Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 10:40 am:
“Are you and Karen Lewis ready to float out to the middle of the lake together in shame when the city goes belly up?”
Let’s look on the bright side here, at least he believes in global warming.
I disagree with everything he or she said. However, I don’t blindly follow any group and don’t believe in global warming.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 6:13 pm
I am a lowly state worker. I just paid $250 into my retirement. That’s $500 a month for thirty years. I agree there is abuse, but don’t rip the rug out from your employees that have paid for 20 years. As a side note, if we want to tax the rich let’s incorporate a consumption tax. This will force the people making large purchases (ie the rich) to pay more taxes.
Comment by bull98 Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 6:54 pm
I remember when $10000/yr was a high income in the 1960s. So when I hear there will be a 100 billion dollar pension payout over thirty years it does not reflect the time value of money at all. What would that be in current dollars and per year over that period?
Comment by lost in the weeds Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 7:34 pm
lost in the woods — the $1oo billion shortfall IS the present value of the payments the pension systems are expected to make on pensions already earned, over current assets.
Comment by Anon. Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 8:43 pm
Not sure why Pat Quinn is a good scapegoat here. If anyone should get a six figure pension its the governor. Also, as far as I know, Pat Quinn is the only politician who created a plan to reduce and partially fix the pension deficit, who got it passed.
Otherwise I agree with every other point. The pensions will not be paid. The reason is because if you take the current deficit, spread it out over 30 years, and apply it to the people in this state who can afford it (roughly half), the OPEB and pension payments amount to $2,000.00 per year per person.
That’s too much. It’ll never happen. Not when the average student graduates with $40k in student loan debt. Not when taxi cabs and trucks will be completely automated in 10 years. Not during an extended decade or two of 2% growth.
Comment by Millennial Tuesday, Mar 3, 15 @ 9:37 pm