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* Tribune…
Foreign companies considering investment in Illinois are turned off by the state’s high taxes, its aging infrastructure and its lack of vocational training for the next generation of skilled workers, according to a survey of countries released by the state Monday.
The survey focused on 10 nations that are the state’s largest trading partners and was aimed at getting an independent assessment of the state’s competitiveness, according to Gov. Bruce Rauner’s office, which conducted the survey. […]
A major concern cited in the survey was the state’s level of corporate and property taxes, and the fear that they could rise given the state’s dire fiscal problems.
“There is persistent budget uncertainty for companies in Illinois,” one nation wrote. “Companies want stability in tax and regulatory framework, especially if they are building a manufacturing site and thus committing to the state for a period of time.”
* From the report…
• “Top Concern: tax issues-too high, property & corporate, worries about further increases due to financial condition of the state”
• “There are large (and growing) perceptions that infrastructure improvements are not keeping up”
• “Foreign firms place a premium on opportunities to “cluster” – to work with concentrations of talent in their sector”
• “The plethora of universities, research institutions & accelerators headquartered in the region constitute a significant positive – firms and entrepreneurs are drawn here by the world-class innovation taking place”
• “Chicago is attractive to college students – which therefore enhances the quality of the workforce pool”
• “Vast difference in perception between Chicago and downstate Illinois. While the former has plenty of positives, the latter is not seen to be competitive with Indiana, Wisconsin, etc.”
• “Costs in particular linked to Unions are high. It’s a problem, especially with Wisconsin and Indiana as neighbors – if there is a legal dispute with workers….Cook County is known for being anti-boss or pro-employee”
• “Right to Work is being used by other states to position them favorably compared to Illinois. This is similar to other labor market regulations and workers compensation, unemployment insurance levels, etc. that put Illinois at a disadvantage compared with other states”
• “The manufacturing workforce is aging and vocational training for the next generation of skilled employees is lacking”
• “Chicago is one of the most expensive trade show locations in the world. Being an expensive/bureaucratic trade show location often carries over to the state being perceived as a high cost/bureaucratic location for investing”
• “Illinois overseas offices are primarily focused on exports not investment attraction, which is two very different tasks”
• “Many states have modernized their structure by founding Economic Development Corporations tasked specifically with pursuing investors”
So, they want a modern, highly educated workforce pool, but think workers are paid too much. Great. They also want better infrastructure, but complain about taxation. Wonderful.
But it is interesting that our overseas offices are too focused on exports and not on attracting investments.
Any other thoughts?
posted by Rich Miller
Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 11:31 am
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Top concern: Unlike Missouri and Indiana, Illinois doesn’t allow businesses to both have cake and eat it too.
– MrJM
Comment by MrJM Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 11:40 am
On any given day, the weather is unpredictable. Can the Governor fix that?
Comment by Casual Observer Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 11:41 am
Universities are a “significant positive” — so let’s slash their budgets by 1/3. Sure, makes total sense. And again with the “we gotta be West Indiana or South Wisconsin.” Illinois’ GDP is greater than those two states COMBINED.
Comment by IllinoisBoi Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 11:42 am
==according to Gov. Bruce Rauner’s office, which conducted the survey.==
If this was a survey, I’d like to see how the questions were asked. e.g. “Would you want to come to a state with high taxes and worries about the financial condition of the state?”
I also can’t help but think that there was a lot of cherry picking of responses to publicize.
Comment by Joe M Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 11:43 am
Maybe they don’t want to deal with a state that is not pro- business or friendly to employers. It is not just the hourly rate they are concerned with but some ridiculous work rules.
If your introduction to Chicago was a trade show at Mc Cormick place you might think twice about investing in Illinois
Comment by Lucky Pierre Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 11:45 am
I love Nation #9: “Too many highway tolls” and “parking is too expensive.”
That’s why we’re losing foreign direct investment?
Comment by 47th Ward Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 11:46 am
The world is a competitive place. Whether its a college athletic program, car dealer, or an internet provider. Those that cant’t compete lose out. If Illinois wants businesses to locate here, Illinois must be competitive. Why some people think Illinois is “entitled” to have great jobs when other states offer a more attractive business environment in which to operate is a mystery. However, it’s this same “entitlement mentality” that put Illinois at a competitive disadvantage causing businesses to choose other states.
Comment by A realistic citizen Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 11:51 am
Again w secrecy. Secret respondents make recommendations that dovetail w talking points, covered by the trib. I think i got hurt when i fell off the turnip truck.
Ohio is a larger trading partner for illinois than canada or mexico. Lets make it easier to do business interstate.
Comment by Langhorne Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 11:53 am
And yet reports by Anderson Economic Group and Ernst & Young show that Illinois’ overall tax burden on business ranks 27th and 28th in the country. Companies get tax exemptions for machinery purchases, for example, and there’s no gross receipts tax. Asking corporate executives if they want lower taxes, no matter what the tax burden is, is kind of like asking kids if they want more free candy.
To another point, Chicago is ranked as No. 1 on Cvent’s annual list of top U.S. cities for trade shows and events and hosts 13 percent of large trade shows in the U.S. There must be some reason they keep choosing Chicago.
Comment by OldSmoky2 Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 11:53 am
Hi Rich,
This just in — Mexico and China in favor of Turnaround Agenda!
Thanks,
WS
Is there going to be an actual report released, or just this memo? Who is offering these anecdotes? General Secretary Xi? Queen Elizabeth? Emperor Akihito?
Some background would be nice. The redacts are hilarious — seriously, you’re not going to share the countries or the positions of those responding?
Going to the top listed negative, I’d like to know what the governor plans to do to relocate Illinois on the East or West Coasts. And what about those buffalo and bears they’re all scared about?
Comment by Wordslinger Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 11:54 am
I’m with Joe M — I call bs on the survey — it is just too self-serving to have been fairly conducted.
Comment by kimocat Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 11:54 am
Are those highlights or redactions in the report?
Comment by Anon221 Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 11:55 am
What a bunch of dummies, valuing the business input of people living thousands of miles away, over the business input of the people actually, you know, doing business right here.
Comment by VanillaMan Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 11:57 am
=Is there going to be an actual report released, or just this memo? Who is offering these anecdotes?=
Ambassador from San Marino?
Comment by Toffee Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 11:58 am
After taking office, Rauner has lost all his credibility right from the get-go. Why should we think any survey conducted by his office to be credible?
Comment by DuPage Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 11:59 am
Q: If Illinois was such an attractive place (and the survey was bogus) how come businesses are not relocating here in droves?
A: Because businesses don’t like the business climate.
Pick your reason. Any reason. Could be Cook County is widely recognized as the worst litigation venue in the country.
Comment by A realistic citizen Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 12:00 pm
==Why some people think Illinois is “entitled” to have great jobs when other states offer a more attractive business environment in which to operate is a mystery==
So you want bad jobs? This comment is so ignorant it’s laughable.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 12:00 pm
Well given the comments about Illinois not being on a coast, global warming really can’t get here soon enough, eh?
But seriously, the redactions are silly. The comments would mean a lot more if I actually could see it were not being drafted by Schrimpf and Trover while hanging out in the attic at the mansion or something. And if you look at the tax discussions, they are also coupled with concerns with service reductions and an implication that the issue is more uncertainty over the tax structure than the rates. Especially when we’re talking about FDI, given the nature of the single sales factor, the corporate income tax rate should really have minimal impact on a decision to invest in Illinois.
Comment by Juice Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 12:05 pm
To get all Realistic on you Citizens, , for the record, the Chicago metro economy is the fourth largest in the world by GDP, and Illinois is the fifth largest state economy by GDP.
Now, if we could only relocate to the coasts and do something about those buffalo and bears…..
Comment by Wordslinger Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 12:12 pm
“The ambassadors of Madeupland and Madeupistan strongly support the Turnaround Agenda.” - hat tip to OW
Comment by Anon Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 12:16 pm
Word, Jay Cutler is already killing the bears, so at least we’ve got that covered.
Comment by Juice Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 12:18 pm
What Joe M said. Also, these comments sound much like Rauner’s talking points. Fishing for affirmation.
Comment by anonlurker Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 12:18 pm
Does the survey name countries said what? How is it that an economic powerhouse like Germany can do so well, yet have such liberal labor laws? I don’t suppose the Governor has ever visited Germany and hung out with the workers.
Comment by A Jack Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 12:21 pm
Interesting guy they got to run the trade and investment office. Worth a quick google
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 12:21 pm
DeBlasio’s memo reads like a junior high slam book. I kept waiting for a trading partner to write “Illinois is Fat!” or “I’d never go out with Illinois!”
Comment by Jocko Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 12:25 pm
- Anon -, well played.
To the Post,
I have yet to see someone swayed by facts of redacted surveys with the answers given by … welp, we don’t know “who” responded.
Check all countries that have Owls and the countries the Owl Sandack has visited since Sandack’s co-opting…
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 12:25 pm
Wonder if Capt Fax and the other newsies are dropping an FOIA requesting on DCEO to learn how many martunies were bought to get this gibberish.
Andy….anyone seen HandoutAndy? He is big on FOIAs
Comment by Anonin' Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 12:29 pm
The Tribune story on this is embarrassing.
Seriously, how can you unquestionably follow this out the window based on that memo?
“….one country responded…” Are you kidding me? You don’t know who, what, when or where and you report that? That’s journalism?
It’s one thing to be in the tank, but to be blissfully ignorant?
Say, for example, Jiangxi Province was conducting such a “survey.” Who could authoritatively and definitively speak for the United States that you could credibly write “one country responded?”
Comment by Wordslinger Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 12:29 pm
Word, if a Tribune reporter were to come back with a story like that with purely anonymous sources, that reporter would have been whacked with a wooden spoon. But if they are fed anonymous sources from the Governor’s office, all is well in Tribune tower these days. AmIWrong?
Comment by Juice Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 12:40 pm
Juice, it’s not just the anonymity, but who actually can speak for a “country” in a “survey” like this?
Who would be the equivalent “spokesman” in the United States?
Comment by Wordslinger Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 12:47 pm
Maybe this is the homework given out during a high school’s “Model U.N.”?
“Let’s pretend Illinois is asking YOUR country for input for, let’s say, trade. As the U.N. representative, how would, let’s say, France, respond.
We’ll collect everyone’s papers, I’ll grade them, and get them to someone named ‘ck’ in Springfield to review.”
Ugh.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 12:53 pm
===Who would be the equivalent “spokesman” in the United States?===
Bill O’Reilly?
Comment by 47th Ward Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 12:55 pm
==I love Nation #9: “Too many highway tolls” and “parking is too expensive.”
That’s why we’re losing foreign direct investment?==
Yep. They drive here and, by the time they park, they’re broke and have to turn around and head home.
Comment by Anon. Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 12:56 pm
Surveys are not data driven analyses. Nor are they news worthy. Pitiful.
Comment by nothin's easy Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 12:58 pm
“So, they want a modern, highly educated workforce pool, but think workers are paid too much. Great. They also want better infrastructure, but complain about taxation. Wonderful.”
Well, to be fair, it reads like they were asked for their concerns, not a fully consistent plan. I suspect tax stability, better infrastructure, and a commitment to workforce training would bring plenty of new business.
Comment by Arsenal Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 1:00 pm
Word, I’m going with Jimmy McMillan for spokesperson for the United States.
Comment by Juice Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 1:14 pm
Wordslinger nails it a couple different times. The World’s Greatest Newspaper is granting entire nations anonymity for no reason whatsoever. Moreover, it’s great how some “nations” claim to want the best things for their workforce, but then complain about paying their workers too much.
Rauner trying to let anonymous countries determine Illinois’ economic policies. This is great on so many levels.
Comment by chi Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 1:18 pm
The more times I read it, the more word-for-word Rauner talking points I see in it. No way were these actual responses by anybody overseas. It sounds more like a survey Rauner gave to his inner staff, and then still edited to make sure it matched his talking points.
Comment by Joe M Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 1:19 pm
Chi, it’s the governor’s peeps claiming that one person they claim to have spoken with speaks for a nation, and the Trib dutifully “reporting” it.
Seriously, read some of that memo. “Parking is too expensive.” “Buffalo and bears.” It’s a joke.
Comment by Wordslinger Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 1:23 pm
We may have high tolls but we’re well educated so we don’t believe this malarkey.
Comment by Belle Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 1:35 pm
===It’s a joke.===
This is all that needs to be said about this. This survey is about as real as Blago’s innocence.
Comment by TwoFeetThick Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 1:47 pm
The fact that Brucie and the Trib actually believe this has any meaning is mind blowing…Did any of the Countries also pass the “right to work” resolution?
Comment by D.P.Gumby Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 1:52 pm
Is there a particular reason that the identities of the nation’s responding to this survey have to be kept secret due to issues of confidentiality? Does the Governor’s office realize how ridiculous that sounds.
Now, to the survey:
Nation 3 is upset that we aren’t on a coast. That’s a helpful criticism.
Nation 4 thinks our 10% tax rate is too high. Somebody might want to let them in on the news that our tax rate isn’t 10%.
Nation 5 thinks it takes too long to get Social Security Numbers for their spouses.
Nation 7 thinks our state income tax is too high. If 3.25% is too high I’d like to know what they consider acceptable, especially given the higher income tax rates in surrounding states.
This survey is an absolute joke.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 1:55 pm
Oh, a some of those “nations” thinks having one of the world’s busiest airports is a negative. Don’t want a big airport. Nope. That’s not good for business.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 1:57 pm
There’s no way the CGs agreed to have their surveys be made public, even redacted. No Consulate wants to end up in a partisan talking point. Unreal.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 2:03 pm
Anon, there’s no claim in the memo that the responses come from consulates general. The only claims are that they come from “trading partners,” “countries” and “nations.”
“Dear Peoples Republic of China: May I call you ‘peeps’….. “
Comment by Wordslinger Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 2:13 pm
Another point of contention, and I don’t want this to come off a xenophobic or downplay the importance of foreign direct investment in a 21st center global economy, but maybe the reason why DCEO has placed a priority on exports vs. FDI is because there is a bias towards Illinois companies profiting off of sales to foreign nations vs. MNEs from foreign nations profiting off of Illinois. Which doesn’t sound all that unreasonable.
Comment by Juice Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 2:13 pm
This appears to be a qualitative gathering of perspectives from a small non-representative sample. Usually the kind that could lead to a better-designed quantitative survey. Its goal is usually to uncover all the topics which might be worth asking and measuring in a more formal way. No priorities of importance or impact among the various comments can or should be gleaned from this kind of input.
Some interesting comments for follow up. Also some good input on what our competitor states might be selling against us. No input is valueless, provided we don’t over state its meaning.
Of course these respondents would be most aware of export-producing efforts of DCEO, because they are from our biggest trading partners.
Comment by walker Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 2:24 pm
As others have pointed out, this survey seems biased to support “Turnaround” talking points. Plus, even if you take the answers at face value, the types of taxes and fees criticized by the respondents are exactly what you get when state revenues are too low. High tolls, high property taxes, and high convention fees all arise as ways to provide funding for municipalities and infrastructure in the face of abnormally low state income taxes and lack of equitable state funding. So, even in the survey’s own terms, the answer is not still more state cuts and crummy trickle-down schemes.
Also, it would be great to see a comparison to our true peers in the Midwest–Iowa and Minnesota. Those are states with progressive income tax systems, service taxes, and a commitment to social services, education and infrastructure–and they’re booming economically. We have no business trying to emulate Green Acres (Indiana, Kansas, etc.), anyway.
Comment by Crispy Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 2:37 pm
If I were these countries, I’d give answers exactly the opposite of what I really thought. After all, I’d want businesses locating in my country rather than Illinois/USA. So, we should do the opposite of what they suggest.
As far as who speaks for the countries. I would imagine it is their citizens who are members of that great international organization, the $100,000 wine club. /snark
Comment by Earnest Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 2:48 pm
One other concern: A lot of the concerns are very specific and localized. Are these respondents mostly living in Chicago, or did we get our overseas offices in involved in collecting input? If they are local residents, then our in-state political messaging is impacting them, where it wouldn’t impact their home country colleagues.
Comment by walker Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 2:57 pm
UH - Which of these countries would you rather live in, Governor Rauner, over Illinois?
AND - How soon can we move you there?
I’m not going to sit back and let a country where the average worker earns 8 cents on every pair of Abercrombie boxers their 7 year old makes, tell me how to improve my state.
Which one of these countries is BETTER than Illinois Governor Rauner? Why do you think that is?
Now - how about some governing, you know, YOUR JOB.
Comment by VanillaMan Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 3:10 pm
@Illinoisboi
“Universities are a “significant positive” — so let’s slash their budgets by 1/3″
I don’t think its the state universities to which they’re referring. Northeastern and UIC are pedestrian at best, although UIC has a pretty decent engineering school. Chicago State? Pullllease! It’s Northwestern and University of Chicago, private schools, that makes Chicago a good “Higher Ed” City and have exceptional international reputations. UIUC has a pretty good engineering rep, but the business school has been falling apart there for quite some time, with the exception of Accounting. The rest of the university curricula is mostly average.
The problem with quality in Illinois state universities is more a problem of culture than resources from what I’ve seen.
Comment by Arizona Bob Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 4:19 pm
==UIUC has a pretty good engineering rep, but the business school has been falling apart there for quite some time, with the exception of Accounting. The rest of the university curricula is mostly average.==
U.S. News & World Report ranks UIUC as No. 42 in its rankings of the 100 best colleges in the U.S. and Forbes ranks UIUC as No. 68 in its Top 100. I think I’ll go with them as the experts on this.
Comment by OldSmoky2 Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 4:33 pm
It’s never a money problem with you is it Bob? Money can’t possibly ever be an issue can it?
Also Bob, I went to a public Illinois university and I think I got a pretty good education contrary to your snobish attitude.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 4:34 pm
Also, Bob, when did engineering become the litmus test for university quality? That’s a fine anecdote for you but I don’t think you can apply it to an evaluation of the university system in Illinois.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 4:35 pm
@Arizona Bob–I’ve seen you claim this before about public universities, and especially about UIUC. It was false the last time, too. OldSmoky2 is right about overall college rankings, and Demoralized is also correct–it’s a university, not simply a bone to offer would-be tech industry investors. Here’s the link to the U.S. News rankings–lots of state universities on there:
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities?int=9ff208
Comment by Crispy Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 4:43 pm
Demoralized, if you haven’t noticed the decline of our nation’s bloated public universities, you’ve not been paying attention.
We need as a state to spend more time focusing on vocational education, the one and two-year certificate programs that lead to good blue collar jobs that can support families.
Comment by Downstate Illinois Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 4:44 pm
“Chicago is one of the most expensive trade show locations in the world. Being an expensive/bureaucratic trade show location often carries over to the state being perceived as a high cost/bureaucratic location for investing”
“Trade Show Centers Prohibitive Cost”
The State legislature held hearings and forced reforms at McCormick Place to reduce exhibitor’s costs.
Time and time again we’ve been told that these reforms are a success, yet here are complaints on prohibitive costs and that Chicago is one of the most expensive trade show cities in the world.
Bruce Rauner was on the MPEA board and voted for these reforms and was also the Chairman of Choose Chicago.
Bruce Rauner already fixed this, or did he?
These reforms cut wages, revised work rules, allowed for outside contractors to compete with the MPEA in-house contractors and called for audits every six months, to ensure that these savings were passed on to the exhibitors.
The wages were cut, the work rules were revised, the in-house contractors were shut down by Jim Reilly, and Crowe Horwath has written 4 reports in 5 years, but Crowe Horwath will not called them audits.
Crowe Horwath states; “We were not engaged to, and did not conduct an examination, the objective of which would be the expression of an opinion on compliance with Legislative Reforms.”
“Accordingly, we do not express such an opinion. Had we preformed additional procedures, other matters might have come to our attention that would have been reported to you.”
Maybe if Crowe Horwath were allowed to perform these additional procedures, in accordance with the reform law, we could understand why exhibitors at this week’s Microsoft Ignite are being charged up to 105.02% more than what exhibitors were charged just a few weeks ago at the International Housewares Show.
At least this time they can’t blame labor.
Comment by Chicago 20 Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 4:54 pm
==Why should we think any survey conducted by his office to be credible?==
I can assure you this survey was conducted by superstars…
Comment by Vote Quimby! Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 4:54 pm
DI, it’s not an either/or proposition.
If there are high-paying blue collar jobs going unfilled due to lack of training, I’d suggest those employers hook up with their local community colleges and develop a training program. That’s how it’s supposed to work.
As far as university systems in this country, last I checked, the best and brightest from every corner of the globe are trying to get into them.
If you think you can train someone now for a job they’re going to have for the rest of their life, you haven’t been paying attention. Developing critical thinking skills so students can adapt to the still rapidly changing world is essential.
Comment by Wordslinger Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 5:05 pm
Why were the “nations” or companies that responded redacted? Demographics or who respinded is critical. Its like polling non-voting children in a single toy store; concealing who you polled and then touting the results.
Who ate these “investors.” Is this toyota, or is this foxcon looking to move its seatshops and suicide nets to a amrket with cheaper labor.
Comment by Ghost Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 5:27 pm
==We need as a state to spend more time focusing on vocational education, the one and two-year certificate programs that lead to good blue collar jobs that can support families.==
The same jobs that Rauner is targeting in his grand and glorious “Turnaround Agenda”, right, Downstate?
Comment by Bootleg Carhartt Designer Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 5:36 pm
A “survey” huh? I have trust issues with this governor who self - admittedly a “salesman.”
Comment by illinoised Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 6:28 pm
@Downstate Illinois:
Whatever you say.
And I agree with you on vocational ed. But, you can do both at the same time. You don’t have to throw one out to do the other.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 7:08 pm
This report sounds like it was produced in Dhaka. Completely useless
Comment by Jorge Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 7:11 pm
Perhaps we could look at what it would take to get investments into underserved parts of this state. Some areas in Chicago would count although I know that Chicago would get its share of investments. This is about foreign investments right?
Comment by Levois Tuesday, May 5, 15 @ 7:50 pm
Rich,are you accessing his actual survey questions? I recieved a call on my cell asking me to participate in a survey. It was regarding education and every single question was weighted towards support for charter schools..for examplr, would you support A school that was privately owned, provided a higher level of education, and teachers were not bound by union contracts and could be judged on merit? Ect…the questions made it hard to say no but i did..at the end it had some large statement about the benefits of charter schools and then he asked me if after heari ng all the facts in that statement would i consider changing my mind…i wish i could of recorded it and played it to the media. I now have a hard time trusting s ny survey that comes from his office. Surveys should be neutral to be effective.
Comment by mel at home Wednesday, May 6, 15 @ 9:19 am