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Because… Madigan

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Illinois

* I saw this ad on the New York Times’ website last night and then again this morning on the News-Gazette’s site…

The State Government Leadership Foundation announced a digital advertisement purchase to run throughout the state for the rest of this week, directing users to www.stopdiggingmadigan.com, an online petition to urge the speaker not to continue pushing for a state budget which spends $3 to $4 billion more than it takes in.

“The over 12 million people of Illinois are owed answers by Speaker Madigan on why he insists on deepening 30 years of reckless spending with his current budget proposal,” said SGLF Executive Director Matt Walter in a news release. “Such an enormous debt impacts every member of the Prairie State, and it’s time to tell the speaker that enough is enough.”

Steve Brown, Madigan’s spokesperson, responded the claims are misguided and attack the speaker for issues he himself did not create on his own.

“People try to use Mike Madigan’s longevity in office as a negative weapon,” Brown said. “They forget that he’s never signed a bill, he’s never appointed an agency director and never made a pension investment.”

* From the group’s website…

Do you have $24,959 to spare?

Since Mike Madigan became House Speaker in 1983, Illinois total debt levels have risen to more than$321 billion, leaving it with the 5th highest debt levels in the country. That means every citizen of Illinois, all 12.88 million of them, owes $24,959 to pay off the debt that Madigan caused.

With his current budget proposal, he wants to add another $4 billion to that debt.

Don’t let Michael Madigan dump his mess on you and your children.

posted by Rich Miller
Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 9:26 am

Comments

===Do you have $24,959 to spare?===

I am guessing that those running SGLF do.

Comment by thechampaignlife Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 9:30 am
That ad is extreme. Madigan is only responsible for our budget woes in a moderation. Paddy O Furniture- an Irishman who hangs around your backyard and won’t leave.

Comment by Shoedoctor Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 9:32 am
“Fire Madigan, 2.0″

It’s utterly comical if you think of Rauner’s election as such;

Bruce Rauner spent $60 million to win election the Ofgice of the Governor, leveraged $20 million to buy, lock, stock and barrel the GOP GA, owns the ILGOP like no other Governor had “owned” the state party, and between pledges and actual monies, throw in a “Democratic” PAC and the Turnaround Agenda PAC’s $20 million…

Rauner, himself, is just a prop of his own making to begin and execute “Fire Madigan, 2.0″. LOL

The Ads, the Mail, the Twittering, the talking points, the press conferences, the staged fly-arounds…

Bruce Rauner, “Mr. Prop” is wittingly, or ironically sad, unwittingly, is THE prop, of “Fire Madigan, 2.0″.

Over $100 million. The coffee mugs and t-shirts at least offered some return on the investment.

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 9:37 am
It will be interesting to see how a well funded attack on the Speaker works. People will argue in the past it has never worked. But DPI or the Speaker has never been at a financial disadvantage this large. Time will tell.

Even though it was 2014 and turnout was terrible, this tactic worked for Bost’s seat. It was the most expensive state house race and Madigan was a key theme in the race. Producing this on a large scale is much more difficult and probably won’t be as effective in the suburbs and Central and Southern Illinois. But money can do alot of things… Good and bad

Comment by Almost the Weekend Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 9:37 am
Madigan was a key theme in the race. Producing this on a large scale is much more difficult and probably won’t be as effective in the suburbs as it would in Central and Southern Illinois.

Apologize for multiple posts

Comment by Almost the Weekend Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 9:38 am
Don’t blame me, I voted for Patrick John Ryan & Terrence Goggin.

Comment by Jose Abreu's next homer Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 9:44 am
An entertaining commercial to distract us, but the question for Illinois residents should be: how much? Blame who you like, and after decades of terrible Illinois governance, there are plenty of villains, but the critical questions are: how much more are citizens going to have to pay and when does the the tax increase start and how regressive will it be. Perhaps, you could say it has started already, with President Preckwinkle’s sales tax increase, passed yesterday, without a lot of fuss. Politicians seem to be in a tax-raising mood.

Comment by Cassandra Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 9:46 am
Another victim heard from.

Real snappy concept and execution. Get it, “dug a hole?”

Like Squeezy and Honest Abe with his pockets turned out, winning concepts like this always make me wonder what the rejects were.

And like the governor’s TV spot, no promotion of the governor’s legislative agenda or call to action.

It’s an October 2016 general negative ad in July 2015.

Comment by Wordslinger Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 9:48 am
“…and never made a pension investment.”

Mr. Brown, you’re as good at what you do as anybody in the business. I’d leave this part of the sentence off. Too great a reminder.

Comment by A guy Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 9:51 am
Rauners attempts to shift blame for his inability to govern fails/falls on its face.

It’s the Governors job to govern.

Attacking others in serial fashion is not governing…it’s just a continuing attack on those who choose their own position rather than be bullied into submission.

Comment by Anonymous Redux Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 9:53 am
Any message, relentlessly pounded will have an effect. Don’t underestimate it. This time it has a huge budget behind it, a consistent theme and universal coverage throughout the state and beyond. It’s not small taters.

Comment by A guy Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 9:54 am
People often complain about the state of education in Illinois, but the fourth-grade class that produced that mock campaign graphic is pretty impressive.

It wasn’t? Huh.

I just presumed…

Never mind.

– MrJM

Comment by @MisterJayEm Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 9:55 am
That’ll help /s

I’m not sure if the picture makes sense. It looks as if he’s burying Missouri under a pile of dirt, while stepping on Kentucky.

Comment by AC Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 9:56 am
===Do you have $24,959 to spare?===

I’m going to need a loan from our Governor.

I hear he makes 25,000 dollar$ per hour?

Comment by Anonymous Redux Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 9:56 am
I don’t see how there’s any point to this since the Governor himself hasn’t proposed anything but a 3-4 billion deficit budget.

Comment by Jeep Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 9:57 am
Oh - A Guy -,

Anytime the governor wants to do his job and decides that these … props… aren’t helping getting a budget or his own Agenda passed, that would be great.

Bruce Rauner, the $100 million dollar prop, for “Fire Madigan, 2.0″

Ugh.

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 9:59 am
Guy, what’s the objective of the message? What are those who see it supposed to do?

Comment by Wordslinger Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:01 am
Accuracy is irrelevant. The only issue is whether a constant barrage of this stuff is feasible and whether it will work to motivate the 50% of voters who often don’t bother to vote and who don’t know the difference an egg and a golf ball.

You can critique these ads all you want. But are they effective with the masses.

Comment by Cook County Commoner Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:01 am
Don’t blame Madigan. Just because he has been in control of a one party super-majority that has done just about whatever it wanted, doesn’t mean it’s their fault…… it’s society’s fault. Ummm….I mean the super minority Republican’s fault.

Comment by Ordinary citizen Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:04 am
This is not going to work unless the individual Democratic legislators are targeted — and experience door-knockers in their districts.

Comment by chad Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:05 am
Imagine if Obama said Boehner runs the country… Seriously man, learn how to governor, and tell your uncoordinated superPACs they’re “not helping”. They’re simply making you look weak and ineffectual. Sure we’re in a hole, but I’m sure folks know it is only getting deeper by forcing small businesses that have state contracts to go under, and putting granny and your disabled cousin out on the street. Rauner, you are the one who can’t pass a budget, or won’t. Either way, blaming Madigan doesn’t work. We’ve seen it tried before…

Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:05 am
–“People try to use Mike Madigan’s longevity in office as a negative weapon,” Brown said. “They forget that he’s never signed a bill, he’s never appointed an agency director and never made a pension investment.”–

But nothing gets passed in the House unless the Speaker wants it to which means no bill or budget gets signed (because it has to pass the House first) unless the Speaker wants it to.

I’m not supporting the ads, but Brown’s comments are kind bogus.

Comment by Ahoy! Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:08 am
It is good to see that our pro-business governor is trying to bump up employment.

To bad it is for out of state PAC hacks.

Comment by Huh? Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:08 am
Oops, last comment ended up in purgatory. Anyway, these “independent” groups “aren’t helping”. Blaming Madigan for the hole we’re in doesn’t absolve Rauner from not passing a budget. Imagine if a national campaign said the Speaker of the US House ran the country. Whatever candidate ran that ad wouldn’t get re-elected as pres. Shirking responsiblity and shifting blame only go so far. Everyone knows a budget was on Rauner’s desk. Most know he could have reduced expendatures wherever he wanted. Others know he could have ensured it was balanced by moving forward with a tax increase he told Madigan he was willing to enact. Regardless, the reason there isn’t a budget isn’t because the House passed one that was out of balance, it is because the governor refused to sign it. If he had, even if there were no new revenues, we wouldn’t run out of money for nine months or so. As it stands, we are effectively out of money now. He should have passed the budget with AVs, or decided not to spend the entire appropriations, or signed it and tried to fix it later after the breathing room that provided.

Comment by Me too Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:12 am
I’m not supporting the ads, but Brown’s comments are kind bogus. @Ahoy

Does it hurt to sit on the fence?

Comment by Anonymous Redux Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:18 am
== Wordslinger - Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:01 am:

==Guy, what’s the objective of the message?=== Affix blame.

==What are those who see it supposed to do?==

Assign blame.

Comment by A guy Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:25 am
Because…Rauner

Comment by downstate commissioner Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:28 am
LOL, Guy, and that get’s you what in tangible accomplishment?

It’s a nice payday for some people, but it’s been rather curious to watch a Summer 2015 multi-million-dollar negative campaign against someone whose negatives are already through the roof.

To. What. End?

Comment by Wordslinger Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:31 am
==Guy, what’s the objective of the message?===

Affix blame.

==What are those who see it supposed to do?==

Assign blame.

AT LONG LAST!

In this time of crisis, the thing Illinois needs most of all is a group with the courage to point fingers.

FINALLY!

– MrJM

Comment by @MisterJayEm Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:31 am
- A Guy -,

Remember, the last debate, Bruce Rauner started almost every answer;

“Pat Quinn failed…”

Why?

Governors own.

I’ve yet to think of an Illinois Governor that has gone out of their way to say they are powerless. Rauner tells people he is at every turn, in commercials, begging for “help”…

… the man IS the governor, lol.

“Bruce Rsuner failed…”

Going to hear thatore as this keeps going.

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:32 am
Willy, is it completely beyond you to consider the next debate to include the phrase:
“Mike Madigan failed…”
It’s a theme growing in popularity.

Sling, MJM’s negatives are through the roof…with those tuned in enough to know who he is and what he does.

What this campaign does is ensure more people are under that roof and understand his impact. MJM has been sniped at before (heck, he’s sniped at himself in mail in target districts). What he’s never been is surrounded by it. It won’t be in a few district mailings. It will be in 15 Senate Districts and 100 House Districts. That, my friend, is synergy. A force he’s never faced.

Comment by A guy Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:44 am
MJM’s negatives are through the roof… with those tuned in enough to know who he is and what he does.

Your poll must have had very interesting cross-tabs…

– MrJM

Comment by @MisterJayEm Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:49 am
===Willy, is it completely beyond you to consider the next debate to include the phrase:
“Mike Madigan failed…”===

lol, so it IS the $100 million “Fire Madigan, 2.0″?

Goodness gracious, MJM’s numbers had never been lower and he kept his majority. The Macro Messsge “Fire Madigan” with cut and paste mailings ain’t going to change things… In July… in 2015.

What an utter embarrassment.

Let alone the denying that governors own.

I’ve seen both these movies, I know how they end.

“Bruce Rauner failed…”

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:51 am
I need a couple days of break of the posts on this blog that blindly defend the Speaker, and attack the governor. Someone stands up, whether they are right or wrong, but the constant posts to put them in their place in Madiganistan are already beyond the pale. Calling for Rich to shut comments off and open the weekend!

Comment by TGIF Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:52 am
– synergy–

I don’t think I’ve heard that word in the biz since the 90s. Probably because it doesn’t mean anything.

You can’t peddle that stuff in the private sector with today’s performance metrics.

If you’re dropping two million bucks on advertising, you have a clear objective and the means to evaluate performance.

Comment by Wordslinger Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 11:03 am
- Wordslinger - Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 9:48 am: “Another victim heard from.”

- Oswego Willy - Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 9:37 am: “Fire Madigan, 2.0″

Do you support Madigan? Do you think he has done well for the state (not politics…the actual state and its budget)? Do you support him continuing as Speaker, despite Illinois’ poor economic track record?

Illinois’ poor budget over decades is causing cuts to critical care, and has been for quite some time under multiple governors. Do you place more blame for that on Rauner and his half year of being governor, or on Madigan and his decades of being at the epicenter of virtually every budget that’s been approved?

Separate the politics from this for a moment. I’m talking about making the state of Illinois better. And ignore whether you think it is effective–which is Willy’s hang-up (we get it-you think Madigan is impervious). The question I want to know is-do you genuinely think there is no basis for this ad?

Comment by Liandro Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 11:05 am
I get a warm and fuzzy feeling when I see Madigan with a shovel. I doubt if he even owns one ,his precinct captains do most of the heavy lifting.

But when your the Boss of Bosses’ for 30 years it comes with some heat. So a few taxpayer’s get screwed he became a millionaire. And you don’t need a tag day for most of his supporters.

Comment by Mokenavince Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 11:06 am
===That, my friend, is synergy. A force he’s never faced.===

For what purpose? Rauner’s end game appears to be:

-Eliminating collective bargaining rights
-Making it harder for workers to be compensated for injuries on the job
-Ending prevailing wage
-Protecting businesses whose products injure people
-Diminishing the pensions earned by thousands of teachers and public employees.

Given that agenda, I’m pretty sure Madigan welcomes the fight.

Comment by 47th Ward Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 11:09 am
@OW

=“Bruce Rsuner failed…”

Going to hear thatore as this keeps going.=

So, in order to avoid “failure” is it your point that he shouldn’t challenge Madigan, raise taxes just like Madigan, Cullerton, and Quinn did to damage the middle class to benefit that political class of which you’re so protective?

Is it your point that he’s going to fail to move Illinois forward by ending wasteful and corrupt policies in Springfield, so he shouldn’t even try?

Normally I embrace pessimism because if it correctly predicts what happens, you find yourself prepared, and if it doesn’t happen you find yourself pleasantly surprised.

We get that you personally don’t like Rauner, OW. It’s just that your negativism without constructive solution proposition is wearing a little thin….

Comment by Arizona Bob Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 11:11 am
I was surprised IL has only the 5th highest debt load, considering it has the 5th highest population and is notorious as a debtor. I would have expected worse, maybe we’re not so bad after all. Thanks, SGLF, whoever you are.

Comment by Harry Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 11:13 am
Oh - Arizona Bob -

It’s not about me. Making it about me doesn’t negate Rauner, himself, answering every debate answer;

“Pat Quinn failed…”

Rauner is governor now. Comes with the gig.

No one is on your desert, - Arizona Bob -

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 11:18 am
My comment got deleted? Okay then, heh. Be curious to know the basis for that.

Comment by Liandro Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 11:22 am
As a side note, it would be nice if the system either indicated that a comment was moderated. At the first least if it didn’t continue to make the comment visible to the commenter. Makes it a bit frustrating, especially when I’m actually interested in the response, Rich.

Comment by Liandro Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 11:25 am
Let me ask again:

If you believed fully in the Turnaround Agenda for Illinois, had no other agenda, and had Rauner’s job, what would you do?

Does this continuing ad campaign attacking Madigan help to achieve your goals?

The same question applies to legislative working groups, RTW meetings with locals, making budget agreement contingent upon non-budget items, putting Turnaround items into bills on other topics.

When we used to criticize Quinn, a favorite response was “What’s your alternative?” The same question would be fair when criticizing Rauner’s political strategies.

Concerns about policy, belief, hidden agendas, personality, etc. are all separate issues from political strategy.

Comment by walker Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 11:30 am
===If you’re dropping two million bucks on advertising, you have a clear objective and the means to evaluate performance.===

Honestly I can’t tell if you’re trying to be funny, sly, clever or all of it here Sling.

The MJM playbook has been all about raising the negatives on opponents by any means necessary. Doesn’t have to be true; just needs to be repeated; over and over and over again. Make sure their “negs” are much higher than yours. If they’re high enough…you literally cannot win. That’s been his MO all around the state for at least the last decade. It gave him a super majority.

It doesn’t even matter who’s name is on the ballot next time. In approx. 100 House races, MJM will be the opponent. If, and it’s a huge “if” that strategy is fruitful, it could be bushels of fruit.

You asked for an objective and measurable results. I’ve offered them. No one can predict how sound or successful this will be until the strategy plays out.

To suggest there isn’t a strategy is either coy or deliberately naive. You’re not naive.

Comment by A guy Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 11:30 am
People will look at that debt hole, and figure that the best way to avoid the debt, and higher taxes that will come with it, is to move. Outside business and workers will not want to live in a state with higher and higher debt and taxes! Illinois is heading into a death spiral, thanks to Madigan and his tax and spend policies, all so he can stay in power!

Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 11:34 am
Looks like Madigan is digging with a Silver Shovel.

Comment by nixit71 Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 11:38 am
The point is that Madigan has acquired such outsized power that Illinois Governors cannot ‘govern’ in the way the Constitution contemplates. Not Rauner, not Quinn, etc. Madigan cares about retaining power for its own sake; his reign certainly has not accomplished anything but debt and disfunction in Illinois. The failed status quo has kept him in power, and he is panicking now that it is finally threatened by someone Madigan cannot co- opt or crush.

Comment by Let'sMovetoTexas Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 11:41 am
===It doesn’t even matter who’s name is on the ballot next time. In approx. 100 House races, MJM will be the opponent. If, and it’s a huge “if” that strategy is fruitful, it could be bushels of fruit.===

Fire Madigan is a loser.

People vote in the micro in these races. This idea of a macro “Fire Madigan, 2.0″ with no budget in place, and Rauner solidifying the Unions and Democrats in a way not seen in a decade, it’s tilting windmills.

Rauner will have a record now. That will cut both ways too. Now.

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 11:42 am
Madigan couldn’t have dug a hole this deep in thirty years with only a shovel. The ad should have had Madigan wearing a hard hat sitting on a backhoe with a union sign in the background reading “Proud Union Worker”. “Dig deeper & faster till it hurts” Michael yells at the Illinois taxpayers standing around him while they watch him dig.

Comment by Ethan Hawk Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 11:46 am
===The point is that Madigan has acquired such outsized power that Illinois Governors cannot ‘govern’ in the way the Constitution contemplates.===

Wow. What a victim you are!

Governors, Illinois governors are the most powerful in the country. If Rauner and Quinn couldn’t figure out the office, that’s on them, not Madigan.

“Example?”

Easy. AV the Approps to pay state workers, Governor Rauner.

===The failed status quo has kept him in power, and he is panicking now that it is finally threatened by someone Madigan cannot co- opt or crush.===

How so, explain.

Rauner wants his Agenda items, Rauner needs a budget. Rauner has neither.

What am I missing?

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 11:46 am
===Fire Madigan is a loser.===

It has been, but the roll out has never been as comprehensive as it’s about to be.

Comment by A guy Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 11:54 am
=== ===Fire Madigan is a loser.===

It has been, but the roll out has never been as comprehensive as it’s about to be.===

More money, same message. Ugh. Wait for the raising revenue votes and the Union blowback in the micro, during s presidential year…

… and Rauner needs to protect Kirk and Munger too…

But, “Fire Madigan, 2.0″ will cover it… yikes.

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 12:01 pm
Guy, I’m neither coy nor naive. I’m just not buying what you’re selling because it’s silly in very practical terms.

Not enough “synergy” behind it, I guess.

Comment by Wordslinger Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 12:01 pm
- Liandro-
- Ariz Bob -

Couldn’t agree more with both of you. You both are right on point, don’t be dissuaded by the element that pounds the drum incessantly for the continuation of Madiganistan without challenge.

Comment by TGIF Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 12:09 pm
===…continuation of Madiganistan without challenge.===

Rauner is governor now, was in all the papers.

You DO know what co-equal means… right?

Rauner is only helpless if he chooses to be, like your victimhood.

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 12:11 pm
- OW -
Right on queue, bang that drum.
I’d re type AZ Bob’s message, but why bother.
You must not be allowed to hear it as a loyal servant to the giver of all the plenty that we so luckily enjoy here in Madiganistan.

Comment by TGIF Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 12:19 pm
- TGIF -,

Now you’re a victim of drums, and me?

You should lie down, wet compress on your forehead, mutter “Madiganistan” until you ease into an afternoon slumber.

“We will survive”

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 12:23 pm
Liandro, I’m interested in the budget in the here and now. I am against Rauner’s non-budget agenda and his holding vital services ransom for it.

Madigan obviously has had a large role in some bad decisions over the years, but he’s not the cartoon dictator that some politicians and pundits make him out to be. It’s not possible to dictate state policy from the House. Governors, any governor, are way more powerful.

And Rauner is no political virgin. The dude was one of the biggest bankrollers of Daley, who was a dictator and a complete fiscal screwup.

Comment by Wordslinger Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 12:38 pm
===Wordslinger - Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 12:01 pm:

Guy, I’m neither coy nor naive. I’m just not buying what you’re selling because it’s silly in very practical terms.

Not enough “synergy” behind it, I guess.===

I offered the argument before you stated you were interested in the very contemporary “here and now”. Knowing that such a position could only come from a recent encounter group reminiscent of the 70s, I rescind any attempt to offer language that might groove you.

Comment by A guy Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 12:58 pm
I’m interested in the budget for decades to come, not just the here and now. I’m 34; band-aid fixes don’t interest me much. And, in reference to Madigan, I also believe that past performance is indeed often a decent predictor of future results.

Rich, you, and others are convinced Rauner’s agenda is “non-budget”. I think that flat-out wrong. A number of those turnaround agenda items will have massive long-term affects on the budget–both at the municipal level and at the state level.

Back to my core questions, though: you think the ad is unjustified bcause: 1. Madigan wasn’t powerful enough during all those decades of budgets to deserve ads like this, and 2. it’s all in the past anyway, and you like his current plan better than Rauner’s.

My response to that (assuming I’m interpreting correctly) would be,

1: Yes he was, and I have lost all faith in his ability to make wise financial and policy decisions in anything related to budgets. His lust for power will always be his weakness, and it will always blind him to what the states needs to get financially healhty.

2. Long-term financial health requires painful long-term adjustments. That means that the “here-and-now” will be a bit more painful as we fix the future. I don’t consider that “non-budget” at all, so on that we will simply have to disagree. Just because a policy doesn’t put dollars signs into today’s budget doesn’t mean it won’t have massive long-term $$$ implications–and I think tying that to budget discussions makes complete sense.

Comment by Liandro Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 12:58 pm
===It’s not possible to dictate state policy from the House…===

Maybe you’ll be kind enough to forward that on to the gentleman you’re defending. He’ll either agree, disagree, or just wink.

Comment by A guy Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 1:00 pm
===Maybe you’ll be kind enough to forward that on to the gentleman you’re defending. He’ll either agree, disagree, or just wink.===

What does that … mean.

Please, use your words.

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 1:02 pm
Well said Liandro.

Comment by Lincoln Lad Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 1:19 pm
I have a solution…Madigan Cullerton, and Rauner and pay off the entire state debt load out of their own pockets they can all take credit for the solution and we as citizens can have a chance at a functioning state gov.

Comment by Strangerthings Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 1:26 pm
Lliandro: exactly right that part of the problem is contending long term vision versus here and now. It’s correct that these are not fiscal 2016 budget items, but could have significant fiscal impact years from now. .

Let’s ask a narrower question: Is continually attacking Madigan as a symbol of what is wrong, the best tactic to achieve those longer term goals?

Comment by walker Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 1:27 pm
-walker-
I could give you a list of scenarios where the “my way, or the highway” approach has existed for years with MJM.
How would you change it?
No chance of a meaningful nature occurs if that approach isn’t part of what changes in my opinion.

Comment by Lincoln Lad Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 1:31 pm
No “change”

Comment by Lincoln Lad Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 1:32 pm
I just hope all you tax consuming , failed status quo defending, anti- Raunerites keep underestimating him!

Comment by Let'sMovetoTexas Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 1:34 pm
===I just hope all you tax consuming , failed status quo defending, anti- Raunerites keep underestimating him!===

Is that how all in your office feel about that too”!” lol

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 1:37 pm
Liandro, I dont have a clue as to what you mean about the budget “decades from now.” Anything done today can be undone tomorrow.

And I’m not buying that adopting a Mississippi-style labor agenda is some key to economic prosperity. I don’t see any evidence to support that.

Guy, I get it, you’re a card-carrying member of the GOP Victim Party.

You can influence, but you can’t dictate state policy from one chamber. The Senate is equal in power, and I’d argue any governor with the power to award grants and contracts and that has a veto pen is first among equals.

Comment by Wordslinger Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 2:05 pm
==They forget that he’s never signed a bill, he’s never appointed an agency director==

He has never signed a bill, but he has greatly influenced those bills during more than three decades as speaker.

He has never appointed an agency director, but he has been ==kingmaker== for some agency directors and board members through negotiations and calling in favors. Six o one, half dozen other.

Comment by Formerly Known As... Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 2:14 pm
===Guy, I get it, you’re a card-carrying member of the GOP Victim Party.===

Right dude, and you’re an apologist for a Speaker who all of the sudden, needs one. Because, try as did, he was only and influence and didn’t dictate an ounce of policy. Ever.

That new happy hour can’t get here soon enough for you man.

Comment by A guy Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 2:20 pm
Guy, any time you want to employ facts and not juvenile snark to support an argument, feel free.

From my observation, Pate, Emil Jones, Big Jim, Edgar, Ryan, et. al were not meek little lambs who were dictated to. They all played their roles pretty tough.

Comment by Wordslinger Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 2:37 pm
-word slinger and OW -
You’ve done a good job today blindly defending the past and the one man most responsible for the sorry state of Illinois financials. You both deserve a pat on the head, but to get it, you will need to remove your head from the sand for about 15 seconds.

Comment by Its so sad, I wish I could laugh Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 2:38 pm
It’s So, you’re the blind one if you think any one person runs the show,

I said Madgian obviously had a large role in bad decisions over the years. That’s hardly a blind defense or an apologia.

Comment by Wordslinger Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 2:41 pm
- Its so sad, I wish I could laugh -

If you feel better after that, I feel better for you.

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 2:41 pm
How do you get rid of Madigan? Run someone viable against him and pour money into the race. Until then, his name is on one ballot in one district. He’s already despised. Sure, some taint rubs off. And everyone will have to spend money to defend. But right now, incumbency may be more damaging than Madigan, and that cuts both parties. Too many games being played because there is a very deep pocket funding them. But let’s see what it looks like next July.

Comment by Archiesmom Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 3:15 pm
===From my observation, Pate, Emil Jones, Big Jim, Edgar, Ryan, et. al were not meek little lambs who were dictated to.===

From my observation, those guys are out of government for quite a while now and getting a little long in the tooth, no? You forgot Phil Rock and Frank Watson.
Of the guys you mentioned, only two of them stopped the dictation, the other two facilitated it. But hey, you’re the resident genius with the only perspective ever based in fact. Kind of the “Be like Mike” guy around here.

Comment by A guy Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 3:57 pm
- A Guy -,

If the premise is “For 40 years…”

Then…

Thompson, Edgar, Ryan, Blago, Quinn, Rock, Phillip, Jones, Daniels, Cross…

Then ignoring all the other actors is brazenly misguiding those you’re trying to persuade.

Lots of people “bowing to Madigan in Madiganistan”

Lots.

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 4:22 pm
===From my observation, Pate, Emil Jones, Big Jim, Edgar, Ryan, et. al were not meek little lambs who were dictated to.===

Ah, good ole Emil Jones. The man who, during the pension revamp in 1989, gifted all state pensioners compounded COLA/AAI and himself a spiked GARS pension.

Comment by nixit71 Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 4:54 pm
Willy, I’m not making the 40 year argument. Nor do I use the term Madiganistan in conversation or in writing. I’m very willing to toss George Ryan in with the very reckless spending crowd, along with the last two governors. So, confine my criticism to the past decade and a half or so. Philip is the only of the people you mentioned who had any real neutralizing effect on the Speaker. He had a Majority to help him. Jones when teamed with Blago posed hurdles.

I’m confining my criticism to the past 15 years. If I misspoke, or inadvertently misled, I’m correcting it now. I don’t believe I did.

Comment by A guy Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 4:57 pm
- A Guy -

I responded to…

===Of the guys you mentioned, only two of them stopped the dictation, the other two facilitated it. ===

I wanted to… clarify.

I know what you typed, I read it. lol

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 5:25 pm