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* My weekly syndicated newspaper column…
Last week, Gov. Bruce Rauner declared to reporters that if it wasn’t for House Speaker Michael Madigan, the budget impasse would’ve been resolved.
And perhaps if the sky was green, then grass might be blue.
For starters, what the governor said was highly doubtful. It’s not like in the absence of Madigan that Senate President John Cullerton and his liberal Democratic caucus would’ve eagerly gone along with the harshly anti-union aspects of Rauner’s “Turnaround Agenda” in exchange for a budget deal and tax hike, as the governor is demanding.
Cullerton confirmed that fact just a day after Rauner made his remarks.
“This is a supermajority of Democrats and a bunch of pro-union Republicans in this state,” Cullerton told reporters. “This isn’t, you know, Oklahoma or Kansas. And so he’s got to understand, he ran for governor of Illinois,” he said of Rauner.
The governor is demanding things that Democrats just won’t ever go along with, like all but eliminating collective bargaining rights for unions at the local government level, killing off the prevailing wage for construction workers, and doing away with the mostly “no fault” aspect of the workers’ compensation system.
Mayor Rahm Emanuel is more conservative than Cullerton, and he’d like to see some changes to the workers’ comp system, but he has taken the side of unions in this ideological war as well.
Plus, let’s get real here. There is no “absence” of Mike Madigan. He is, love him or hate him (and, if the polls are right, most people hate him), a fact of Statehouse life.
It’s true that Madigan hasn’t been cooperative during the long overtime legislative session. He even intervened in the Senate to prevent Cullerton from passing a compromise bill on property taxes this month.
Cullerton’s proposal attempted to address one of Rauner’s “Turnaround Agenda” demands of a two-year property tax freeze while making sure Chicago schools and other struggling school districts around the state weren’t harmed.
The bill was opposed by the Chicago Teachers Union, which nonetheless called it “well-intentioned.” The Chicago Teachers Pension Fund also opposed the bill because it changed the pension payment “ramp” schedule for the city’s school system. The Republicans, of course, were also opposed, because the governor wants to get rid of most collective bargaining rights for teachers unions as part of his proposal.
For all of those reasons, plus one, Cullerton’s measure received 32 “yes” votes—four short of the three-fifths majority needed during an overtime session.
The “plus one” angle is that Speaker Madigan was also opposed. If you check the roll call, Sen. Martin Sandoval, who is Madigan’s senator, didn’t vote even though he was in the chamber during the roll call. Sen. Steve Landek, whom Madigan appointed to the Senate four years ago, voted “present.”
The Senate Democrats were aware that Madigan was working against the bill, but Cullerton went ahead with the roll call anyway. Cullerton believes he has the votes to pass the legislation when his chamber returns to town in August.
Look, I won’t excuse any of his actions, but others have found a way to make a deal with Madigan. Heck, even Rod Blagojevich did, and he did so after he accused the chairman of the Democratic Party of being a Republican.
So, enough with the excuses and the eliminationist fantasies. If the governor wants an agreement, then he has to step away from his far-right economic agenda and find some practical solutions to this mess or we will never even get to talking about a budget.
Democrats (and a whole lot of Republicans) are simply not going to vote to eviscerate labor unions. Period. This isn’t so much a personality clash with one stubborn House speaker as it is an ideological war with more than half the state.
Successful governors have always found a way to bridge the oftentimes yawning gaps between the various interests and power centers.
I don’t disagree at all with the governor that we need some economic reforms to spur some much-needed growth. But if this governor was serious about breaking the logjam, he’d find a way to do that in concert with a Democratic supermajority.
Discuss.
posted by Rich Miller
Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 8:40 am
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==Successful governors==
I hope this is his highest priority.
Comment by Vote Quimby! Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 8:46 am
Has Madigan proposed anything to spur economic development in the state?
You can criticize Rauner for his proposals, but not if you don’t have something else to offer.
Comment by Downstate Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 8:51 am
Look, I think Rauner knows what needs to be done. The problem is, he ran against Quinn for doing it. He can’t be seen as the guy who “Raised Taxes”, or “Cut Services”. He wants to be the guy who fought the fight, balanced the budget, “reformed” labor laws. It’s the Speaker, he’s the one who hurt the disabled kids. It’s the Speaker, he’s the one that raised your taxes. He’s the “Black Hat” guy. I”m the “White Hat” guy. Look, I’m literally wearing a white hat.
That’s the political calculus Rauner is making. He is failing. Madigan knows he can wait this out. Rauner doesn’t have that luxury.
Comment by Democratic Response Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 8:55 am
Great analysis, Rich. The dynamics at play are just as significant as the players involved advocating each side, especially to the dead-end Union issues.
===Successful governors have always found a way to bridge the oftentimes yawning gaps between the various interests and power centers.===
Not everyone was/is “afraid” of MJM, only very lazy Editorial Board writers wanting to please their boss and Rauner ignore that very telling observation. Simple.
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 8:55 am
Good roads, good schools, good universities, a well educated and skilled workforce. These are things that attract economic development.
Comment by DuPage Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 8:57 am
The man simply isn’t used to having to compromise. After a career of telling others what to do, and threatening to “bury” those that didn’t play ball, the idea of not getting what he wants doesn’t even enter into his mind. Until he figures out that all the money in the world won’t be enough to “bury” his opponents in this arena, there will be no deal.
Comment by slow down Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 8:58 am
Mr. Downstate,
Yes, Madigan wants to “Spur Economic Growth”. How about an infrastructure plan. More money for schools and universities. He’s already passed a work comp bill.
But, go ahead and burn your straw-man. It will be fun for you for a little while.
Comment by Democratic Response Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 9:00 am
Downstate:
You play the victim as well as the Governor
Comment by Demoralized Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 9:07 am
In Madigan’s district, more of his voters like him than not…and by a large margin. Period. So, his statewide popularity is of limited pertinence. As for economic development, making the politically difficult decisions needed to allow the state to pay its bills will give businesses and the rating agencies the stability they and citizens of this state wish to see. The uncertainty surrounding the “shake up” is having immediate, detrimental effects on state citizen confidence to risk making the big purchases this state needs to kickstart economic growth. Everyone is holding back because of the uncertainty caused by Rauner’s unattainable demands. Can other things be done in addition to Rauner dropping his demands? Absolutely. Rich’s suggestions would be a good start to set the table for negotiations. But, Shakeup Uncertainty is a large contributor to our economic doldrums.
Comment by PublicServant Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 9:08 am
Waiting on the Democrats plan to attract businesses and convince those who are leaving to stay. What are the economic plans they are proposing to provide the needed growth in our economy and tax base?
Comment by Shoedoctor Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 9:08 am
Democratic Response:
“Straw man”?
Talk about a straw man - you can examine the work comp bill of Madigans. It does nothing to solve a major economic hurdle for recruiting businesses to Illinois.
We have a deficit and a debt! Yes, we can add more taxes, but that is a HUGE disincentive for companies to look here, as well.
The biggest way to tackle our debt and deficit spending is by growing the actual number of jobs. You can impose higher taxes on the biggest wage earners, but that won’t necessarily solve the deficit. We need more jobs.
Pension reform and work comp reform are a start. But Illinois has a reputation as being business unfriendly. We don’t overcome that with just more taxes and better roads.
Comment by Downstate Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 9:09 am
Great advice Rich. To bad it will fall on deaf ears on the second floor.
Comment by Norseman Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 9:10 am
That Blago made a deal with Madigan doesn’t mean anything.
Comment by William Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 9:12 am
==That Blago made a deal with Madigan doesn’t mean anything.==
Are you just that dense that you don’t get the point of that? The fact that even Blagojevich made a deal with the Governor is saying something. You would think that Governor Rauner could at least accomplish what Blagojevich managed to do.
Comment by Demoralized Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 9:14 am
===That Blago made a deal with Madigan doesn’t mean anything.===
Yep. What was a big deal? When Blago became so irrelevant that the legislative leaders eventually flat out ignored Blago.
A deal, that shows relevancy. No deal, that may eventually lead to irrelevancy. The Speaker even hinted as such.
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 9:14 am
You know it, Rich. I and many of your readers agree. However, I’m wondering if Rauner will ever get it. As the stalemate continues, his “leadership” is looking more and more like kamikaze warfare or Nero fiddling. Scary!
Comment by Buster Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 9:15 am
Downstate:
Still waiting on you to stop playing the victim. You just don’t get it do you. You can whine about what the other guy isn’t doing all you want. And you would be accomplishing what with that? You don’t get anything done by whining about the other guy. Apparently you’ve completely missed that point.
Comment by Demoralized Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 9:16 am
Yeah, I mean we don’t want much. We just want the Republican Governor to start acting like a Democrat Governor!
Comment by hot chocolate Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 9:20 am
Has Madigan proposed anything to spur economic development in the state? - downstate
That is why a Governor was elected…a business man who claimed he could and would create a more attractive business climate in Illinois.
No budget will not attract business.
Holding our State hostage will not attract business.
Doomed to fail attempts at Union busting will not attract business.
Illinois is bleeding.
Does our Governor really care?…I can’t tell?
Comment by Anonymous Redux Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 9:23 am
Rauner claimed time and again that he could govern effectively with Madigan in Springfield, and said, “I have the money, I have the power and the influence.” I didn’t believe him then, either.
Comment by Albany Park Patriot Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 9:24 am
Public Servant how was the economic growth before Rauner was elected? The fact that there has been sluggish growth in our state is a big reason why he won. Why would we keep doung things exactly the same in this state? The results are not there
Comment by Shoedoctor Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 9:28 am
==Why would we keep doung things exactly the same in this state? ==
There’s a difference between doing things exactly the same and recognizing the limitations on your power and what has to be done in order to get anything accomplished. Like it or not he has to deal with a Democratic legislature. Until he accepts that he is doomed to accomplish absolutely nothing.
Comment by Demoralized Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 9:33 am
Demoralized,
Being involved in a variety of Illinois businesses, I hardly consider myself a victim, but rather a stakeholder.
In fact, in the case of two companies, we’ve had to expand to other state, due in part, to the lack of opportunities in Illinois.
One company is closely tied to new and expanding businesses. Sadly, that activity has only been occurring in other states in which we operate.
I love Illinois! But what I’m seeing from the front line is that opportunities are eluding this state because of decision making in Springfield that never chages.
Comment by Downstate Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 9:42 am
==”eliminationalist fantasies”==
Rich!
Comment by walker Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 9:45 am
“is a big reason why he won.” Well, if “big” you mean “small” because the big reason he won was that Quinn was his opponent.
Comment by Skeptic Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 9:47 am
Downstate:
I say again, what are you accomplishing by whining about Madigan (or anybody else for that matter). You can’t keep coming back with a “yeah, but” argument. What are you getting out of saying “yeah, but what is the other side proposing?” The Governor, whether you or he like it or not, has to recognize the parameters in which he is governing. He has to deal with the politicians you dislike, whether you or he likes it or not. And that means he isn’t going to get anywhere close to what he wants. Unless he accepts that neither you nor he are going to see anything get accomplished. It’s just a fact of life. Accept it. That is what will get something done. He can start with dropping all of his anti-union proposals. I suspect once he does that the conversations might move forward somewhat.
==we’ve had to expand to other state==
Nobody “has” to do anything. A choice was made. I find it funny that you say in one breath you “love Illinois” while in the same conversation say you “had” to go somewhere else. Funny way of showing your “love” don’t you think?
Comment by Demoralized Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 9:51 am
I’ve been involved in economic development for the last 20+ years. In the early 2000s Michigan was “redlined” by any industry looking to expand because of their problems. They’ve turned things around in the past decade by making some tough decisions, involving unions, RTW, worker’s comp, etc. Now they are a go-to place for new industry. Just look at the stats.
Now IL is being redlined. Three reasons: State budget and escalating debt that scares everyone who understands economics; Workers comp costs that are 2 to 3x neighboring states; Union work rules. Until those three are solved, IL will continue to see an exodus of people leaving Dodge.
Rauner has to make these changes or downward spiral will continue. Time to stop kicking the can down the road.
Comment by Jack Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 9:53 am
It’s academic at this point. The “game’s” about over, except for the one heavy lift everyone knows has been coming since Jan. 1.
With K-12 signed, continuing approps., court orders and consent decrees, FY16 is about 80 percent funded. The remaining 20 percent is about $5 billion short in funding of $7 billion in anticipated spending.
The governor’s “leverage” is a ludicrous bluff that he will shut down social services all over the state, further gut higher ed and go without group insurance for a reactionary agenda that has no demonstrated legislative or public support.
If the guy couldn’t take the heat for $26 million in cuts, the idea that he would go to the wall for $5 billion is absurd.
So the budget is nearly done without the governor’s input or any legislative “victory” for him.
I don’t think this is how they drew it up in the huddle.
All that remains is the tax increase. Which, I’m sure, the Dems would appreciate if the governor put up, personally.
Woof, shades of Sen. Geary and Michael Corleone.
Comment by Wordslinger Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 9:53 am
==Union work rules==
Those aren’t going to change. It’s a fact of life. As long as that remains a must have you aren’t going to get anything.
Comment by Demoralized Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 9:54 am
ShoeDoctor, making a reasonable flat income tax rate permanent, instead of temporary, would have gone a lone way towards instilling the confidence that is sorely needed to both encourage business and economic development, and that’s not what was done before. Oh, and Rauner won, not because the economy was sluggish. It’s been sluggish all over. No. Rauner won, because he was the only one in the race that wasn’t Pat Quinn. Finally, we need to get a progressive income tax amendment on the 2016 ballot, so that taxes can then be reduced for the vast majority of Illinois citizens, and put the burden of supporting Illinois’ programs and Infrastructure where the benefits have been going for the last two or so decades as middle class wages and salaries have stagnated.
Comment by PublicServant Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 9:57 am
Jack, you’re talking out your tukkus about “redlining.”
I’m surprised a big economic development macher like you has never read “Site Selection” magazine.
Comment by Wordslinger Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 9:58 am
Demoralized:
“A choice was made. I find it funny that you say in one breath you “love Illinois” while in the same conversation say you “had” to go somewhere else. Funny way of showing your “love” don’t you think? ”
Wow! Is that how you think business really works? It’s only because we went to other states that we were able to keep the employment base in Illinois alive. Surely you aren’t suggesting we should have just kept doing the same thing until our business finally closed?
Frankly, that seems to be the attitude out of Springfield - let’s just keep doing the same thing.
Comment by Downstate Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 10:06 am
Wordslinger: Have you noticed that CAT and John Deere have been building a number of new factories over the past couple of years? Can you name me when they last built one in IL? Wonder why?
Comment by Jack Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 10:14 am
=Rauner has to make these changes or downward spiral will continue.=
Can you provide a state that is a shining example of success based on Rauner’s “agenda”?
Comment by JS Mill Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 10:15 am
It’s Time For the Top Dog in This State to Be Treated Like He is the Top Dog by the Legislative Leadership.
There . . . fixed it.
Comment by Louis G Atsaves Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 10:20 am
Great column, Rich. I wish the folks at the Tribune editorial board could imbibe some of your realism. But that would mean leaving the Wilmette-of-the-mind that they inhabit.
Comment by Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 10:21 am
JS Mill,
An example of Rauner’s agenda working in other states? Michigan is probably the clearest example. The state became right-to-work, (unlike Rauner who is only asking that counties decide). The Michigan economy is on the upswing, and a bright spot in the rust belt.
Comment by Downstate Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 10:21 am
Jack, have you noticed that every large, international, industrial manufacturer has plants all over the world, and have for decades?.
Guess why? Because they sell all over the world.
Your original ridiculous point was “redlining.” Sell it.
Start with the $250 million Woodward plant that opened in Rockford a couple of weeks ago
Comment by Wordslinger Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 10:22 am
@downstate:
There are many, many reasons why people go into business, stay in business, or get out of business.
Taxes may, or may not, be one of those reasons.
If taxes are/were the ONLY reason you got into business than please say so.
Otherwise it’s just more Conservative “victim hood”.
Comment by Jack Stephens Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 10:28 am
“It’s Time For the Top Dog in This State to Be Treated Like He is the Top Dog by the Legislative Leadership.”
Signed,
Fredo Corleone.
lol
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 10:28 am
@downstate:
Minnesota made dramatic cuts in Welfare for the Wealthy and Socialist Government Entitlements for the Elites and they are doing better than Scott up north in cheese land!
Comment by Jack Stephens Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 10:30 am
Jack Stephens,
“victim hood”
Not sure where you are getting the victim hood idea. I certainly feel empowered to make my own way and create my own opportunities.
Of course taxes aren’t the only reason that companies make decisions on locating. Work Comp is another one.
Critical too, is the growing pension mess in the state. Companies looking to come into the state are certain that they’ll have to help foot the bill for the mountain of debt - something that wasn’t of their making.
Comment by Downstate Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 10:34 am
@wordslinger: How does that explain these?
http://www.theherald-news.com/2015/03/20/caterpillar-announces-production-line-moves-from-joliet-to-mexico/ax4ipxm/
Or this: http://www.citizen-times.com/story/news/local/2015/01/16/caterpillar-close-franklin-plant-costing-jobs/21856075/
http://southeastfarmpress.com/equipment/caterpillar-s-new-southern-plant-hits-stride-following-asian-shift#slide-0-field_images-114051
I doubt Mexico is buying more heavy equipment than the US is. They may be building overseas, they may be building in more business friendly states, but they are subtracting jobs here.
Comment by lake county democrat Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 10:40 am
Wordslinger: Woodward was started in Rockford in 1870 and has 1,500 employees there with 400 engineers, so really wasn’t one that chose IL for completely new facility. They expanded what they already had there.
How about another example of a firm that doesn’t have the ties to an area of the state?
And, firms do sell all over the world, but many are choosing to mfg in USA for a number of reasons. They just aren’t going to come to IL until things change. It’s a pretty simple proposition…continue to do things like we have for the last decade and lose workers or do what other neighboring states have done and are growing their workforces.
Comment by Jack Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 10:42 am
Public Servant do you really think taxes will be reduced for a vast majority of Illinois citizens?
That will never happen
Comment by Shoedoctor Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 10:44 am
===Public Servant do you really think taxes will be reduced for a vast majority of Illinois citizens?
That will never happen===
…and Gov. Rauner will sign it.
Had the governor prepared a budget, without a $3 billion budget hole, the governor would have incredible leverage.
The governor did not. No leverage.
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 10:46 am
Word: Your numbers work, and your logic is sound. Agree that the budget game is mostly over.
And let me point out many should have known this outcome since Jan. 1, but you called it clearly back then.
Only one wrench left to throw into the works: Rauner could still short the pensions, and play the legal delay game, all the while blaming Madigan.
Comment by walker Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 10:48 am
Downstate:
Yep. If we only had RTW everything would be great. You don’t need RTW to succeed. That’s crap.
And, no, that’s not how I think business works. I’m not an idiot. I was being snarky.
What is it that you don’t get about the fact that Rauner has to work with the Democrats whether you like it or not. You can continue with your mantra of we have to do things different if you want. That’s fine. But, you have to do things different WITHIN THE PARAMETERS YOU ARE GIVEN. What is so hard to understand about that.
When you have some ideas of things that can be accomplished WITHIN THE PARAMETERS THAT EXIST then let me know. Because your RTW suggestion isn’t one of those things.
Comment by Demoralized Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 10:48 am
@downstate:
Did you object to Governor Ryan skipping the pay,wants on the Pension bill?
______Yes
______No
Comment by Jack Stephens Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 10:49 am
@Jack:
Like neighboring State Minnesota…..they just made huge cutbacks in Wealthy Welfare? Things are doing well up there!
Comment by Jack Stephens Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 10:51 am
So I looked at growth in Illinois….not measured by what is happening in Indiana or Missouri, but by comparing it to other major states. Illinois growth (using 2008 as a base) has been 15%. California was 16%, Florida 11%, Pennsylvania 17%, New Jersey 11% and Ohio 18%. The point here is that while more growth may be a good thing, Illinois is toward the middle of the pack and radical reforms based upon our track record do not seem appropriate. (source http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/compare_state_spending_2014bZ0g )
Comment by Outsider Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 10:52 am
*payments on the Pension bill
Comment by Jack Stephens Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 10:53 am
After all of you finish bad mouthing Rauner- can anyone on this blog explain how Illinois and its municipalities will be able to pay all the pension and retiree healthcare benefits committed to under Madigan’s tenure without driving every employer out of the State?
Comment by Sue Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 11:01 am
Walker, could the governor short the pensions absent an approved bill? Without one, isn’t it a continuing approp?
Comment by Wordslinger Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 11:02 am
Jack, keep throwing the spaghetti against the wall, something’s bound to stick.
Kind of forgot about that “redlining” claim you made.
Comment by Wordslinger Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 11:04 am
Demoralized and Jack Stephens,
I’m not trying to cast blame for what has happened. But I will cast blame for the failure to do anything differently in the future.
The same problems the state faces, are playing out in Chicago. Transformative change is needed. No one is holding back the Democrats from enacting large property tax increases and other solutions to help them out of their fiscal morass. Why aren’t they imposing the ideas that Madigan Democrats feel would be so helpful state-wide? Increase taxes dramatically. Fund the schools. Cover the pot holes. And companies will be panting to do business there. I look forward to the results.
It’s the same way that allowing local counties to make their own decisions on RTW and prevailing wage rates offers an incredible opportunity for testing these theories.
Impose your ideals on Chicago - you have the control and the votes. Just let a few of we downstate counties try our ideas on RTW and Prevailing Wage. Give us five years - it can’t be more damaging than what has already happened in the state.
Comment by Downstate Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 11:11 am
Sue:
How about you tell us your solution . . . other than to put all of the state’s woes at Madigan’s feet. I ask that rhetorically of course as you have made it clear your solution is to allow for bankruptcy, cut people’s pay and reduce their pension benefits. That is your solution right?
And, it’s a complete joke for you to suggest the pension mess is all of Madigan’s fault. It indicates your complete lack of understanding of how we got here and all of the players that have been involved.
And please stop with the “drive every employer out of the state” garbage. It’s hyperbole at it’s finest.
Comment by Demoralized Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 11:11 am
Word: You might be right. Probably are.
I don’t know how far Rauner wants to stretch his powers until courts tell him no. He has previously said appropriations are simply an upper limit for his actual spending. He might have been talking through his hat.
Comment by walker Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 11:14 am
Downstate:
You still don’t get it do you? And you still continue to play the victim by playing the blame game. You say you aren’t casting blame and then in the next breath what do you do? You cast blame.
You really think RTW and Prevailing Wage are the answers to all of our problems? I can see how you think paying people less is a solution. Makes perfect sense to me.
And I don’t know what you mean by “your” ideals unless you are speaking generically because they aren’t “my” ideals.
Until you understand that you must work with what you have then you are destined to fail just as the Governor is destined to fail. The sooner you realize that the better off you will be. You can stomp your feet and hold your breath all you want about the reforms you think we need. You won’t get anything but sore feet and a lack of oxygen to your brain by doing so though. Live in reality. You’ll accomplish more.
Comment by Demoralized Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 11:16 am
Demoralized- I actually have a tax neutral pension fix- legislate a prohibition on all Employer Pickups statewide and require every effected employer to contribute the savings into their respective pension funds.. It will add billions into the funds, won’t cost tax payers a dime and force both the employee and employer to actually start contributing real money toward retirement. One problem is the democratic leaning unions will oppose the plan which means it would go nowhere in the legislature.
Comment by Sue Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 11:19 am
Demoralized,
Let’s simplify this…
1. What do you think Chicago should do to get out of their fiscal situation?
2. Why do you think they aren’t doing it?
Comment by Downstate Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 11:21 am
== In Madigan’s district, more of his voters like him than not…and by a large margin. Period. So, his statewide popularity is of limited pertinence.==
You are stating what many think is the state’s main problem: a powerful leader who takes care of himself and his district but not necessarily the rest of the state.
Comment by Soccertease Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 11:22 am
And follow-up question(s).
Do you think Illinois is holding it’s own with regard to economic prosperity?
And, why or why not?
Comment by Downstate Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 11:23 am
@downstate:
The biggest industry in Downstate Illinois are the Prisons. They are union members.
Comment by Jack Stephens Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 11:24 am
Downstate:
What you or I want is irrelevant. You still miss my point. You have to work with what you are given. You aren’t going to get RTW or Prevailing Wage. You aren’t going to get anything that involves unions. It just isn’t going to happen. You need to find things that can be negotiated. Those aren’t those things.
Comment by Demoralized Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 11:25 am
==legislate a prohibition on all Employer Pickups statewide==
I’m not sure what that means. Are you suggesting that employees pick up the entire cost of their pension?
And who isn’t contributing “real” money toward retirement? The employees have contributed their share. The employer hasn’t.
Comment by Demoralized Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 11:26 am
Jack Stephens,
“The biggest industry in Downstate Illinois are the Prisons. They are union members. ”
Not sure if you are being snarky or not. Clearly, prisons are not the biggest industry downstate. Try telling that to John Deere, ADM, CAT, Marathon, and a myriad of other industries and businesses.
If RTW is a fear of counties with prisons, GREAT. Then simply allow for downstate counties WITHOUT a prison to implement RTW and prevailing wage reform, if they so choose.
Comment by Downstate Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 11:33 am
Demoralized,
I realize I’m asking for your opinion. I’ve proffered mine regarding the state. I’m just curious as your ideas regarding Chicago.
1. What do you think Chicago should do to get out of their fiscal situation?
2. Why do you think they aren’t doing it?
and…
Do you think Illinois is holding it’s own with regard to economic prosperity?
And, why or why not?
Maybe you think Illinois is doing fine the way it is.
But I’m really curious as to your thoughts on the first two questions.
Thanks.
Comment by Downstate Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 11:37 am
@Downstate:
No snark at all.
The prison industry is huge downstate. The IL Dept of Corrections budget is a matter of public record…go,look it up.
Why are you afraid to take on the Prison Unions? Seriously how much should one get paid to serve a bologna sandwich to a low level drug offender. Again….the types of offenses are also a matter of public record. Look it up.
Not everything in the world hinges on Union Busting (”right to work”).
By the way does Right to Work the same thing as when 18 year olds the Right to Vote? In other words it’s giving people a Right that didn’t exist? Yes or No, please.
Comment by Jack Stephens Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 11:48 am
Downstate:
I don’t live in Chicago so I don’t have the first clue as to what is going on other than what I read in the paper and on here. But, my solution for them would be the same as my solution to the state: a combination of tax increases and spending cuts. Why aren’t they (or the state) doing it? Politics. It’s a pathetic excuse but it’s reality. You’ve seen the polls. Everyone wants cuts . . . just don’t cut my stuff. Everyone wants spending on their stuff . . . just no taxes to pay for it.
I don’t know enough about things like Workers Comp to have an informed opinion about what should be done but I’d be interested to find out why the “reforms” that were done earlier haven’t reduced premiums significantly. Is it because insurance companies are banking more profit? Is it because the “reforms” weren’t the right reforms? I don’t know. Until I have the answer to that I can’t tell you what I think.
And, in case you didn’t guess, I’m absolutely against RTW and eliminating Prevailing Wage. I don’t think the answer to our economic woes are doing things that will likely result in lower wages.
Tax increases and spending cuts. That is my solution.
Comment by Demoralized Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 11:50 am
Notice that those building new plants are doing so in Mexico, not Wisconsin or Indiana. All midwestern states are losing manufacturing jobs. This is not an Illinois specific problem.
Comment by JackD Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 12:01 pm
Great column again, Rich–the voice of moderation and reason.
The governor’s anti-union agenda has been rejected repeatedly, on different levels. Now Rauner is just being creepy, like someone who’s rejected romantically or dumped and won’t stop pursuing.
“The Michigan economy is on the upswing, and a bright spot in the rust belt.”
Many state economies are on the upswing. Not long ago, Illinois had a massive unemployment rate, at or near 10%. Now it’s 5.9%, not much different than Michigan’s.
I just learned about the deeply racist origin of right to work. The RTW movement was started by a guy named Vance Muse, a southern businessman and lobbyist who pushed for anti-union laws and said something extremely derogatory about African-Americans joining unions.
In this time of our economic history, government should strengthen labor protections, not diminish them. I’m glad we have politicians in Illinois who see the bigger picture and historical context, and who defend union rights. In this metric, Illinois is far ahead of other states.
Comment by Grandson of Man Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 12:02 pm
@Downstate-
Check this out- http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/regional/gdp_state/2015/_images/gsp_0615.png
Comment by JS Mill Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 12:14 pm
Jack D: In 2015 IN and MI, both new RTW states, have added 5,000 (IN) and 12,800 (MI) mfg jobs, while IL lost 7,900. Even bigger gains for both since bottom of Great Recession.
Grandson of Man: Did you see that prevailing wage legislation was set up to keep southern blacks to keep them out of coming up north for construction jobs?
Comment by Jack Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 12:17 pm
Jack, you’re a laugh riot today.
Don’t keep us in suspense, how does your story end: did prevailing wage keep black Americans down South, like it was intended, lol?
The Great Migration started about 1928, dude, after the flood. Prevailing wage wasn’t even a dream, then.
Comment by Wordslinger Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 12:25 pm
Wordslinger: I know you probably don’t want to know this but here it is….
In 1927, a contractor employed African-American workers from Alabama to build a Veterans’ Bureau hospital in the district of Congressman Bacon.[5] Prompted by concerns about the conditions of workers, displacement of local workers by migrant workers, and competitive pressure toward lower wages,[6] Bacon introduced the first version of his bill in 1927.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davis%E2%80%93Bacon_Act
Why can’t we just let freedom ring????
Comment by Jack Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 12:58 pm
=Even bigger gains for both since bottom of Great Recession.=
Actually, Illinois has gained more jobs since 2010 that Indiana (3633,000 vs 269,000) and both has about the same peak unemployment rate.
Michigan would make sense, they had a peak unemployment rate of 15% and have added 494,000 jobs.
Add to that- Michigan has not come close to recovering the pre-recession median income of $55,500. Current median family income is $48,800 well off their 2007 total. IN the better part of a decade families in Michigan have lost 13% in wages. Illinois is still down 3% and Indiana is down 5%. Illinois median- $57,200 Indiana- $50,600.
Prevailing wage and RTW certainly have an impact.
Comment by JS Mill Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 1:10 pm
@ Demoralized:
“I’m absolutely against RTW and eliminating Prevailing Wage”
And I’m absolutely for it. So let’s find a compromise, and only let those counties that are for it, try it out.
You aren’t against compromise, are you?
Comment by Downstate Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 1:37 pm
Downstate:
On that issue? No compromise. Sorry. And there won’t be any compromise on that by those that really matter in this debate. So why don’t we all just move off of that topic. As I said, you aren’t going to get it. You just aren’t. You are wasting your breath asking for it. It’s just a political reality.
I’m curious as to why you even think RTW and Prevailing Wage will do anything besides lower worker pay. Are you for lowering worker pay? Because it seems to me that anybody that favors those concepts is by default for lower pay. There is no compromise to be had on that from my prospective.
Comment by Demoralized Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 1:44 pm
*perspective
Comment by Demoralized Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 1:47 pm
@Downstate- What has happened to the top 15 income earners in RTW states even as median incomes have declined? Any guesses?
Those median incomes are not just for union workers btw.
So how is it the top income have increased disproportionately from the average wage earner?
Hint: They get you to carry the water for their huge income increases. Get it?
Comment by JS Mill Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 1:50 pm
Downstate:
I think you are failing to grasp the crux of my argument which is this: you work towards things where compromise can be achieved. When it comes to issues such as RTW and Prevailing Wage there is no compromise to be had. Why continue to spend time on something that has no chance? Wouldn’t time be better spent on things where discussion is possible? You can say that it would be beneficial all you want but whether it would or would not be is completely irrelevant if there is no discussion to be had given the political realities. I think it’s silly to continue to talk about it.
Comment by Demoralized Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 1:54 pm
@downstate:
Why should a “sandwich artist” at franchise sub restaurant make considerably less…than a Union Prison Sandwich Artiist?
Given that they are in located in 2 different counties?
Whats the difference between making sandwiches for people getting off the interstate vs an assembly line in a prison?
Comment by Jack Stephens Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 1:58 pm
“Given that they are in located in 2 different counties?”
Wow! Maybe you could go before the state board of education and explain that the teacher in Williamson County should be earning the same as one in Cook. After all they are doing the same job.
Regards compromise on RTW and prevailing wage, I think I now understand - THERE WILL BE NO COMPROMISE, because Madigan Democrats know much better than local county officials what is better for their economic development.
I guess I misunderstood what compromise really means.
Comment by Downstate Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 2:05 pm
=== because Madigan Democrats know much better===
Tone it down or leave.
Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 2:06 pm
—Tone it down or leave—
Noted. Thanks for the warning, Rich.
Comment by Downstate Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 2:10 pm
Downstate:
There are things you compromise on and things you don’t. This isn’t something the Democrats are going to compromise on no matter how much you stomp your feet.
Let’s say I ask the Pope to compromise on priests and marriage and tell him: “Hey, why don’t we compromise and let some priests marry.” I highly doubt that the Pope would be open to compromise. Darn that Pope! Doesn’t he understand compromise!
Not everything is subject to compromise and anybody that had the first clue about political realities would know about that. You must be advising the Governor because you have the same political tone-deafness that he does. Stop trying to talk about something that isn’t going to happen and talk about stuff that might happen. The longer you harp on this kind of stuff, the more politically naive you look and the more annoying it gets. But if you like shouting at the wall and you think it’s useful then by all means continue doing so.
Comment by Demoralized Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 2:10 pm
@downstate:
You suggested trying Union Busting (”Right to Work”) in different counties. I was providing a real world example.
Teachers should make even more in our society….they are THAT valuable. Schools should be open year round. It’s been years since the kids worked on the family farm in the summer!
Comment by Jack Stephens Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 2:12 pm
===“Hey, why don’t we compromise and let some priests marry.”===
Better: “Why don’t we compromise and let some priests have sane sex civil unions?”
Never gonna happen.
Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 2:13 pm
The state (and it’s voting citizens) are not a religion and vice versa. I honestly don’t see the analogy.
Would you be willing to compromise to let voters decide if we should remove the pension provision from the state constitution?
Comment by Downstate Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 2:17 pm
And by real world there is a high probability of a sub restaurant located off the interstate in county A…..down the road from a prison County B.
Why Union Busting for the sub shop and not the prison?
Comment by Jack Stephens Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 2:17 pm
Downstate:
It’s clear you don’t understand this so I’m not going to continue to try and explain it to you. You’re either not listening or you truly are naive when it comes to political realities. The example given was an attempt to explain that not everything is subject to compromise. That includes public policy stances by political parties. It’s a fact. Accept it and stop bellyaching about it.
Comment by Demoralized Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 2:22 pm
Jack:
Let me clue you in on something. Indiana and Michigan didn’t have Democratic legislatures. I think you’ve got too much ringing going on already.
Comment by Demoralized Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 2:24 pm
==Would you be willing to compromise to let voters decide if we should remove the pension provision from the state constitution?==
I don’t have to compromise on that because they already can. They get a choice on whether to have a convention at least once every 20 years.
Comment by Demoralized Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 2:36 pm
HMMM…evidently “Let Freedom Ring” is too controversial and my post was deleted???
Comment by Jack Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 2:38 pm
“because Madigan Democrats know much better than local county officials what is better for their economic development”
Union-stripping did not do well at the local level, during the turnaround resolution hearings. It was much more than Madigan Democrats who opposed it.
Comment by Grandson of Man Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 2:41 pm
Demoralized,
” The example given was an attempt to explain that not everything is subject to compromise. That includes public policy stances by political parties”
So if the Republicans take a public policy stance that they are against tax increases. Then by your definition, that would not be subject to compromise?
Got it.
Comment by Downstate Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 2:42 pm
Is that how global capitalism works, Jack, the state controls the economy and “creates jobs” by adjusting the old thermostat a little bit, by busting unions?
Sounds like the model of a different “ism” to me.
Seems to me there was quite a bull run in the American economy in the second half of the 20th Century which, curiously, coincided with the rise of unions.
Mississippi has always been right to work. Must be a worker’s paradise.
The WSJ had an article last week that some Chinese manufacturers are moving to Ethiopia because they can pay $100 a month there rather than $300 a month back home.
Maybe China needs to be more like Ethiopia, using your logic.
Comment by Wordslinger Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 2:42 pm
Jack at 12:17: what is your source on those figures?
Comment by JackD Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 2:48 pm
Downstate:
Oh for crying out loud. Stop acting like a child. My entire conversation with you has to do with your comments on RTW and Prevailing Wage. My entire conversation with you has been an attempt to tell you that those aren’t going to happen because the Democrats aren’t going to compromise on that issue. Instead of attempting to understand that you pull one thing after another out of the air to whine about the fact that they aren’t compromising on this issue. It’s clear you have zero understanding of political realities and your only desire is to play the victim and act like a child because you can’t get your way. We’ve seen how productive that’s been at the state level. Look where we are. That, my friend, is the biggest problem right now. A failure of everyone to understand what is possible. And you are illustrating that right now - a failure to understand.
Comment by Demoralized Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 2:48 pm
Wordslinger: Have you been in a modern manufacturing facility lately? If you visited one, you would see very engaged workers, often highly skilled working in a team format. Wages are good and with lots of upside.
You mentioned Mississippi. Ever been to Columbus, MS? In the last decade they’ve brought in over $4 billion in new investment, creating over 5,000 jobs paying an average of $70,000/job. Why wouldn’t we want that for some of our rural IL counties?
Let freedom ring!
Comment by Jack Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 2:51 pm
===So if the Republicans take a public policy stance that they are against tax increases===
Rauner has agreed to a tax hike in exchange for his agenda.
Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 2:52 pm
= don’t disagree at all with the governor that we need some economic reforms to spur some much-needed growth= Rich, what are some reforms you would like to see, you think the Democrats would support, if Rauner would give on some issues?
Comment by Apocalypse Now Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 2:52 pm
JackD: Bureau of Labor Stats Business Establishment Survey from Illinois Policy
Comment by Jack Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 2:54 pm
=Seems to me there was quite a bull run in the American economy in the second half of the 20th Century which, curiously, coincided with the rise of unions.= Wordslinger, you are sure incorrect on that statement. Union membership has been on the decline for the last 30 plus years.
Comment by Apocalypse Now Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 3:02 pm
=== Rich, what are some reforms you would like to see===
Read my Crain’s column.
Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 3:03 pm
=== So if the Republicans take a public policy stance that they are against tax increases. Then by your definition, that would not be subject to compromise? ===
We’ve seen candidates from both parties make that pledge and they have in fact stuck to it in most cases. That’s why we’re in the shape we’re in. They use tricks like shorting pension funding to pay for the things they want to provide to their constituents. Then they blame boogeymen when their trickery comes home to roost.
Comment by Norseman Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 3:03 pm
Yea and in Mississippi they get the benefit of having their Federal Government subsidizing their predatory business model of tax incentives to businesses too inefficient to allow market forces to determine whether they sink or swim. Illinois only receives back $0.25 of every dollar paid in federal tax. Mississippi receives about $3 from the federal government. Indiana over $1. Maybe if we received even close to what we pay in our business climate would be vastly improved.
Comment by Triple fat Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 3:12 pm
“You mentioned Mississippi.”
Mississippi’s unemployment rate is higher than Illinois, at 6.6%. Mississippi is dead last–50th–in per capita and median household income.
Comment by Grandson of Man Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 3:16 pm
@wordslinger. I need to revise my comment by saying I meant private union membership has been on the decline for 30 plus years. Public union membership has been on the rise, leading to the pension/benefit mess most cities and state’s now have, where there are public employee unions.
Comment by Apocalypse Now Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 3:16 pm
== Public union membership has been on the rise, leading to the pension/benefit mess most cities and state’s now have==
I’m not sure how you believe that the pension mess is the fault of the unions. I think there were some other actors involved also. The unions can’t grant themselves benefits without the approval of management. I know it’s the “in thing” to blame unions for all of the world’s ills but sometimes it gets silly.
Comment by Demoralized Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 3:21 pm
Rich, here is you quote from Crain’s, “I’ve touched on only three things. I don’t even know if anybody would agree to any of this stuff.” I asked for you to name some things you think the Democrats would agree to. You neglected a key portion of my in you reply to me.
Comment by Apocalypse Now Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 3:24 pm
Mississippi
While parts of the state, especially the Delta, are very economically depressed, there are pockets that put rural IL to shame. Columbus, Tupelo and Oxford are examples of what can be done with the right approach.
Why can’t we try that in some economically challenged areas in rural Southern IL and see how it works? What if we could create economic pockets of prosperity here, like in Columbus, MS?
Comment by Jack Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 3:31 pm
Jack
I think your assumption is that the “right” approach has to involve RTW. That’s a deduction on my part from your comments. Could be wrong.
Comment by Demoralized Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 3:36 pm
Please note: not “downstate”, but “Downstate Commissioner” Good column, Rich, but after reading all of the comments, I had to go back and reread it to see what you said: As I interpret it, you said that Rauner needed to learn to be a good governor by going after stuff he can get, rather than stuff he will NEVER get.
I agree. Whether his reforms are a good idea or not is irrelevant.
Working towards passing a budget is his JOB. Passing reforms is an ideal….
Comment by downstate commissioner Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 3:56 pm
Do you think that the upswing in Michigan’s economy might at least be partially due to the fact that our socialist president kept the Detroit automakers in business? What would Michigan’s economy look like without GM and Chyrsler?
Comment by Filmmaker Professor Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 4:05 pm
“Time for the top dog to act that way”
So….when will MJM start acting like the “top dog”
Comment by Not a dem Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 4:14 pm
Jack at 2:54: The Illinois Policy Institute press release you cite states that conclusion without specifics and claiming “over the past few years”. In the case of Michigan for example that would include the decline and rise of jobs surrounding the bankruptcy and revival of the auto companies. Lack of specific context and details leaves the claim subject to skepticism. Not long ago on this blog it was reported that all midwestern states were losing manufacturing jobs during 2014 although at different rates.
Comment by JackD Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 4:19 pm
Jack, it might be 70k “average” for a job but that includes what is probably enormous executive pay. I’d be interested in seeing the “median” wage for those 5000 workers. Just a hunch, I’m sure it would be a LOT lower than 70k.
Comment by Honeybear Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 4:48 pm
AN, I’m pretty sure that shorting the pension funds is what led to current liability.
Jack, Mississippi’s economy and standard of living aren’t in the ballpark with Illinois. I hardly think it’s the model to promote, even in your dorm-room.
Let us know when they catch up.
Same with Alabama.
Roll Tide!
(since you think it’s a sign of wisdom to end every post with a exclamation, I tihought I’d try it).
Comment by Wordslinger Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 4:58 pm
=AN, I’m pretty sure that shorting the pension funds is what led to current liability. =
Good try, but the pension mess was exacerbated by the previous Senate Majority leader’s increase in benefit provision, the ill-fated pension loan in 2005, and a sagging stock market. As you should recall, the unfunded liability was at 74% at the end of Ryan’s term and dropped to 45% by 2009. Money was diverted by the Democrats for spending by rather than paying pensions. At least you were correct on that one point. Also, you selectively didn’t address the issue of the rise in public employee unions and the decline of city and state finances. They eerily follow same pattern of the decline in US manufacturing, as unions gain salaries and benefits for their members making US products noncompetitive in global markets.
Comment by Apocalypse Now Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 5:19 pm
Demoralized- management in Illinois did not approve benefit increases- it was the legislature and then approved by a long line of Governors. Collective bargaining in the private sector where managers actually approve things does not equate to the public sector.. Unions contribute to public official campaigns and upon election these recipients of those contributions reward public employees with the goodies which are now bankrupting the State and the municipal governments. You are entitled to your opinions but please at least acknowledge the facts
Comment by Sue Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 5:22 pm
And let us not forget that the 70,000 figure is not really wages earned… It most likely includes the employer’s contributions to healthcare, 401k match, unemployment and workman’s comp. insurance…. When all is said and done they most likely earn closer to 40,000 in wages if they are lucky. Great wages for backwater territory but lousy wages for the Chicago area. Again it would be nice if these employers would rely on their management skills rather than subsidies than redistribution of wealth from taxpayers in Mississippi and states receiving less than what they pay into the
federal coffers.
Comment by Triple fat Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 5:30 pm
== Public Servant do you really think taxes will be reduced for a vast majority of Illinois citizens?
That will never happen ==
Shoedoctor -, see Ralph Martire / CTBA proposal for a graduated tax that will, in fact, cut income taxes for a lot of people.
Comment by RNUG Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 10:58 pm
== I actually have a tax neutral pension fix- legislate a prohibition on all Employer Pickups statewide and require every effected employer to contribute the savings into their respective pension funds.. It will add billions into the funds, won’t cost tax payers a dime and force both the employee and employer to actually start contributing real money toward retirement. ==
-Sue-, It’s mostly the school districts that do a pension pickup. (GRS, JARS & SERS don’t currently have the employer doing a pension pickup.) So you’re only talking about the teachers / school districts. The teachers will insist on additional salary in exchange for giving up the contractually obligated pension pickup … so any freed up money will just go back out in the form of salary, which will actually increase the final compensation used to calculate the pension, increasing the pension cost. Then if you have the school districts start to pay the employer share (as opposed to the State currently(, that will require additional revenue … which will require increased property taxes.
Yes, it will free up some State level revenue, but at the price of increased local taxes. So I don’t see how that ends up revenue neutral in terms of the overall tax burden. Someone is going to end up paying more in taxes … and it will most likely be the property owner / renter.
And there will still be the $110B shortfall in the pension funds …
Comment by RNUG Monday, Jul 27, 15 @ 11:13 pm
Mississippi:
I referred in an earlier post about Columbus, MS, which is in Loudes County. Average mfg wage there is $57,634 compared to $63,489 in IL. While wage is 9% lower, cost of living is also MUCH lower, so workers probably able to save more.
Why not let some rural counties in IL make a go of it with RTW? How could doing so in Marion, Mt. Vernon, Carmi, Olney, etc. hurt Chicago?
Comment by Jack Tuesday, Jul 28, 15 @ 7:35 am
http://www.bls.gov/regions/midwest/news-release/unionmembership_illinois.htm
Comment by burbanite Tuesday, Jul 28, 15 @ 7:36 am
JackD at 4:19: Here is where you can look at data directly, not having if filtered by someone’s opinion.
http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/surveymost?sm
From lows MI has added 157,000 mfg jobs; IN 94,000 and IL only 19,000. Since IL is so much bigger than those two, percentages are even worse.
Comment by Jack Tuesday, Jul 28, 15 @ 8:15 am
Jack, you crack me up.
The “lows” in Michigan were a result of the crash of the auto industry due to the global financial meltdown orchestrated by the reckless Randian big brains.
The Michigan recovery was largely a result of the federal government bailout and a directed stimulus package for the development of new auto-related technology. Right to work was late to the party and didn’t bring any capital with it.
See, in a capitalist economy, capital is rather important, regardless of the source.
Is the Michigan bailout experience the kind of thing you’ve been arguing for all this time? I misunderstood you, lol.
Dude, you’re not interested in right-to-work for “economic” reasons. You want to bust unions because you don’t like their politics.
You started with a ridiculous “redlining” claim that you couldn’t back up then devolved into selling the wonders of the Mississippi model.
That’s what happens when you’re running a con. You have to keep changing the subject.
Comment by Wordslinger Tuesday, Jul 28, 15 @ 8:30 am
But Jack you haven’t yet told us why these manufacturers have become so dependent on taxpayer’s subsidizing their operations? Why should Illinois or rural cities and counties be picking winners and losers in a ‘free market economy?’ There are Illinois tax statutes on the book specifically for the benefit of CAT… Why? If the state is going to subsidize companies should t the State receive stock in return? After all the only cost to the company would a delution of stockholder equity… You know like when a CEO cashes in stock option… I know- why don’t we require companies like CAT and the Board of Trade to give up their Executives stock options to the State for an appropriate amount of time to cover our tax loss? Problem solved… Stockholders aren’t hurt and the people who can’t manage a company without government handouts lose something they should not receive, in the first place…
Comment by Triple fat Tuesday, Jul 28, 15 @ 8:32 am
It’s as if big business and the corporate elite feel entitled to being subsidized by the taxpayers… entitlement programs benefiting corporations and distorting our precious ‘free market system’ should be eliminated. The lazy Corporate Executives that rely on corporate welfare need to be told that the free lunch is over… It’s sink or swim time!
Comment by Triple fat Tuesday, Jul 28, 15 @ 8:44 am
By the way…. Once the corporate entitlement programs are eliminated, the safety net programs for the poor, disabled and elderly need to be expanded. After all providing relief is necessary in a capitalist society in order to make it somewhat civilized. Can we at least agree that a dog eat dog society is uncivilized?
Comment by Triple fat Tuesday, Jul 28, 15 @ 8:57 am
Triple Fat: Agree with you that we shouldn’t be subsidizing firms to stay here. Isn’t it ironic that most of the income tax increase of a few years ago was given back to firms like the CME to keep them from moving?
Think of all of the small firms that paid higher taxes only to see it given to firms lie the CME.
Comment by Jack Tuesday, Jul 28, 15 @ 11:12 am
Jack, “most of the tax increase” went to CME and other firms?
Kind of given up on reality.
Comment by Wordslinger Tuesday, Jul 28, 15 @ 11:35 am
Wordslinger: I saw an article on this sometime ago, but can’t access it. Since you disagree, can I assume that you have the facts to back up your statement that the corporate give-backs to firms like CME weren’t substantial?
Comment by Jack Tuesday, Jul 28, 15 @ 11:40 am
They were “substantial,” they weren’t “most.”
Comment by Wordslinger Tuesday, Jul 28, 15 @ 11:42 am