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* The SJ-R explains today that the governor postponed his union worker layoff plans because of an amended union lawsuit. The governor’s folks say they’re confident that they’ll win the lawsuit, but the unions flatly disagreee…
The amended lawsuit specifically talks about the layoff of 151 unionized state workers at nine different state agencies. The unions argued that the layoffs were scheduled in violation of labor agreements.
“While the governor has the right to initiate a layoff, there has to be a legitimate reason for doing do, for example a lack of work or a lack of funds,” Lindall said. “In no case do those conditions exist for these employees. The governor can’t arbitrarily target layoffs in one area for lack of a budget over another.”
Sean Smoot, director of the PBPA that represents 33 conservation police officers who were scheduled for layoff, said that’s particularly true in the case of the officers whose salaries are paid for with fees, fines and federal money rather than general state tax dollars.
“The existence of a budget or not really doesn’t affect the funding for these folks,” Smoot said.
I imagine this post is gonna cause a whole lot of conservative heads to explode.
posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 8:47 am
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Weren’t there also new hires made in these same agencies while trying to layoff other staff at the same time?
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 8:49 am
If program cuts happened in the budget process, the Governor would have something to point to. I think the Constitution contemplated broad powers for such budget cuts which would create a lack of funds. But since the Governor vetoed the budget in full, he has less credibility on this issue.
Difficult cuts are going to have to happen much as no one wants their agenda harmed. It is time to step up to the plate Mr. Governor and show some fiscal leadership.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 8:51 am
I’m not a conservative and this makes my head explode. I can agree with the unions that the layoffs are bogus, but what I can agree with is why the unions are running our state and not someone elected by the people (weather you voted for that person or not or even agree with them).
Comment by Ahoy! Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 8:51 am
===“The existence of a budget or not really doesn’t affect the funding for these folks,” Smoot said.===
“But… but… I want to destroy unions. I want Union workers and collective bargaining gone. That has to count for something?” - Not Bruce Rauner, but…
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 8:54 am
It’s like a really bad time share.
You can’t sell it. You can’t give it away.
You just have to keep paying these people.
Rich,
How difficult is it to get a constitutional amendment on the ballot regarding the pension item?
Comment by Downstate Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 8:55 am
Why layoff when they are still hiring at IDOT
Comment by Foster brooks Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 8:56 am
Lack of funds is not a basis for a layoff?
OK, here goes my head, KABOOM!
Comment by Louis G. Atsaves Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 8:58 am
@Downstate: You need 3/5 in both chambers and then 3/5 from the voters on the ballot.
Comment by Doofman Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 8:59 am
I recently met one if the new CPO’s and talked with his veteran partner and him. It was pointed out that not only are their positions supported through federal funds but if they are let go, Illinois will lose funds. That’s in addition to their being a class that actually produce revenue…
Of course, people not only fail to recognize the above but they do enforce the Wildlife Code…
Comment by LINK Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:00 am
My head exploded when the courts stepped in and started performing the functions of both the legislative and executive branches of state government. I have wondered ever since why the governor is not therefore equally empowered to overturn rulings of the courts? For crying out loud, the constitution pretty much says to spend money it has to be appropriated. If it is not appropriated, it sits in the treasury. It has nothing to do with availability.
Comment by Skirmisher Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:00 am
This actual governin’ stuff is not nearly as fun as dorm-room philosophizin’ and union demonizin’.
Comment by Wordslinger Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:01 am
Rich - maybe, but as you’ve noted before it’s one of those political paradoxes. GOP officials who claim to support less government fight tooth-and-nail to preserve government in their areas.
In some cases - like the Murray Center - I get the fight. In others - perhaps even like this one - I hope fiscal conservatives walk the walk and talk the talk.
Comment by Team Sleep Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:02 am
the existence of a state budget is not an issue for these folks because they are not being paid out of the state budget. they are being paid with federal funds, fees and fines - not general state dollars. if the argument is the state doesn’t have the money to pay everyone and some people need to be laid off, then lay off the people being paid from the state, otherwise your argument is flawed.
Comment by anon Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:04 am
===Lack of funds is not a basis for a layoff?===
Makes ya wonder if a sitting governor really knows how to craft a balanced budget.
Or, - Louis G Atsaves -, just admit Rauner is inept, wants the legislature to tell him (Rauner) his monetary priorities and what his (Rauner’s) agencies are worth, because Rauner just doesn’t care about funding the agencies and programs, and priorities of state government.
If you want to admit Rauner can care less to fund the agencies he controls… or Rauner, personally, is inept to do it… ok, let Madigan and Cullerton do it. Just admit it.
A lack of funds for a governor unable to understand how this “all works”, that’s Bruce Rauner.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:07 am
My head exploded some numerous times over the prior 12 years, as a result of the financial mess created by Blagojevich, Quinn, Madigan, and Cullerton.
Comment by Apocalypse Now Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:08 am
==How difficult is it to get a constitutional amendment on the ballot regarding the pension item? ==@Downstate: You need 3/5 in both chambers and then 3/5 from the voters on the ballot. ==
And then you also need to survive all of the law suits based on contract law, and U.S. and Illinois Constitution’s contract protection clauses. As a result, many have said the State can only change the contract protection of pensions for new hires.
Comment by Joe M Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:08 am
@doofman,
Thanks for the response.
Is that even with a petition driven process?
Comment by Downstate Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:09 am
Rich,
How difficult is it to get a constitutional amendment on the ballot regarding the pension item?
The other problem is you likely couldn’t make it retroactive anyway.
Comment by OneMan Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:09 am
Louis, did your head explode when the governor went to court to pay state employees without appropriated funds?
If you argue on the one hand to pay state employees without appropriated funds, it’s a wee bit disingenuous to argue on the other hand for layoffs due to lack of appropriated funds. Or to target one area over another.
Do you think the superstars’ methods unsound? I see no method at all.
The horror, the horror.
Comment by Wordslinger Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:09 am
@Downstate
No, that requires a metric ton of signatures.
Comment by OneMan Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:10 am
Louis, I’m too late to save your head but you misread the comment. He said layoffs are for a lack of funds. He then said layoff “can’t arbitrarily target layoffs in one area for lack of a budget over another.”
Comment by Norseman Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:11 am
There’s a great quote in the HBO show “The Wire” that really resonates with this passage…
Carver: [observing Bodie beat a competing dealer with a bat] See, that’s why we can’t win.
Herc: Why not?
Carver:They f&$* up, they get beat. We f&$* up, they give us pensions.
Comment by Almost the Weekend Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:12 am
===My head exploded some numerous times over the prior 12 years, as a result of the financial mess created by Blagojevich, Quinn, Madigan, and Cullerton.===
… and Rauner is grossly inept at understanding the processes of “funding”, how one group gets monies, one doesn’t, or really cares less to fund anything at any level, creating irreversible harm in some cases throughout Illinois?
You keep workin’ on that “blame” thing…
Rauner won, how about some of that governin’ solutions? lol
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:12 am
Ahoy, Hey, shut up! I (in my capacity as union steward, picket captain, and trained union activist) did not say you could speak! You sit down and shut up. I and my union sisters and brothers run the show now! Running the state…..
bi%#h please
Comment by Honeybear Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:12 am
Louis, as the business oriented person you seem to be, I would think you would be a firm believer in the value and sacredness of contracts and contract law. Or is it that contracts are only sacred when the contract benefits you.
Comment by Joe M Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:14 am
“…but what I can agree with is why the unions are running our state and not someone elected by the people…”
The unions also are tunneling under your house.
Comment by Nick Name Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:14 am
Is Honeybear mentally ill?
Comment by phocion Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:14 am
“Lack of funds is not a basis for a layoff?”
Actually, Lindall is quoted saying lack of funds is a ‘legitimate’ basis for a layoff.
But in the case of the conservation officers, they’re funded via non-general revenue and thus only ancillary budgetary items — fees, fines and federal funding. Same is true for many U of I Extension and campus employees who are funded by the USDA and not U of I appropriations.
Head going kaboom under these conditions is evidence of a pre-existing condition such as, perhaps, denial or unrealized buyer’s remorse.
Comment by Springfieldish Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:16 am
Willy - come on, dude. Sometimes blame has to be assigned. Acting like the last 12 years never happened is a dangerous road to hoe.
Nick - perhaps they are. I was wondering when an oil pipeline would go under my home.
Comment by Team Sleep Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:17 am
I fully agree with Oswego Willy’s assessment of Rauner.
And if we are going to be collecting signatures, we might as well be collected them to start the recall process on Rauner.
He obviously is trying to undermine the state government at all levels by implementing policies and positions no one wants, and he is not fit to be governor of this state.
Please recall Rauner now.
Comment by Randy Q Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:20 am
Willy - to be fair, I understand that the last 12 years is not the only reason for our state’s predicaments. Dave McKinney did an awesome job of spreading legit blame around in his Crain’s pension piece.
Comment by Team Sleep Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:20 am
- Team Sleep -
With respect, I get the premise of “blame”…
I also completely understand the actions of choices.
Rauner is choosing. No one is forcing him, these are choices, then there’s no grounds to make these choices, or a complete lack of understanding led to, you guessed it, choices.
When Rauner chooses, Rauner owns his “solutions”.
If Rauner can’t own his solutions, how dies assigning Blane then actually… work? Weren’t those “choices” by Quinn.
“Pat Quinn failed… “.
Why?
Choices, according to Candidate Rauner.
Welcome to the big chair, Governor Rauner, and owning your choices.
With respect, - Team Sleep - as always.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:22 am
– the unions are running our state.–
No, the courts are running the executive branch due to a willful strategery of sabotage by the governor to abdicate his duties in order to advance a political agenda.
How’s that workin’ for you?
Comment by Wordslinger Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:24 am
Rauner never intended to shut down the state museum. Just a bunch of posturing and silliness aimed at scaring people into doing what he wants. Didn’t work, and now that push is coming to shove, he’s backing off, with the lawsuit used as an excuse. Now, if a judge had ordered that the layoffs not go through, that would be one thing. That the governor did this unilaterally is something else entirely.
Perhaps Rauner is finally realizing that he’s going to get stuck with the blame when this thing finally and inevitably implodes, with the state’s credit rating taking even further and the state in fiscal limbo with absolutely nothing positive to report.
Comment by Crying Wolf Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:25 am
- Team Sleep -
Completely agree; McKinney holds everyone, Democrats, Republicans, all the leaders accountable. One of the most important pieces written to comprehend how this all fits.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:25 am
“Is Honeybear mentally ill?”
No, unless obvious sarcasm (toward the poster who claimed unions were “running the state”) has been reclassified as a mental illness.
Comment by Secret Square Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:25 am
Contracts are not “sacred.” Who comes up this stuff? They are enforceable, breachable, voidable and amendable. If contracts were “sacred,” probably half the lawyers and judges out there would be out of work. Civil contracts are as “sacred” as matrimony. The divorce courts speak to that point.
Comment by Cook County Commoner Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:29 am
===And if we are going to be collecting signatures, we might as well be collected them to start the recall process on Rauner.===
What else besides the grossly large amount of valid signatures do you need to fulfill your recall? Do you know the process? Ugh.
I appreciate you agree with my assessment, but you knowledge on “R” is… lacking… at best.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:30 am
- it’s a wee bit disingenuous to argue on the other hand for layoffs due to lack of appropriated funds. -
None of that matters, word, as long as the WCC keeps sending those pay checks.
Comment by Daniel Plainview Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:30 am
@Downstate: A citizen constitutional ballot initiative can only be used to modify Article IV regarding the legislature, not any other part of the Constitution or laws. The current redistricting ballot petition may meet this requirement but even that is not certain:
“Amendments shall be limited to structural and
procedural subjects contained in Article IV.”
http://www.ilga.gov/commission/lrb/con14.htm
Comment by Doofman Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:37 am
====My head exploded when the courts stepped in and started performing the functions of both the legislative and executive branches of state government.====
Well someone’s gotta do the work. The gov for sure doesn’t. The GA may, but they’re not itching to get it done at the same time. Better for the state to just burn?
Comment by From the 'Dale to HP Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:40 am
=== Sometimes blame has to be assigned. ===
If it makes you feel better, go ahead. However, that doesn’t help solve problems. You need to learn from the mistakes and take action. And, you need to take action within the context that we have today. GOP and Dems have to work together to deal with the problems. The Dems aren’t going to lay down and allow you to do what you want simply because of your blame.
Comment by Norseman Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:41 am
Word, I don’t think it’s a political agenda, it’s an ideological agenda that most in his own party don’t agree with.
Comment by From the 'Dale to HP Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:42 am
=– the unions are running our state.–
No, the courts are running the executive branch due to a willful strategery of sabotage by the governor to abdicate his duties in order to advance a political agenda.
How’s that workin’ for you=
I and many others have absolutely no impact, other than paying lower state income taxes. Seems to be working fine.
Comment by Apocalypse Now Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:48 am
The layoff rules are enacted in the Personnel Rules 302.510 and as such aren’t an AFSCME plot, but rather are state law.
Lindell does quote that part of the law correctly. The Governor needs to equally distribute the layoff across all state agencies that are general revenue funded in order to use the budget as the layoff reason. But even before that he needs to comply with 302.530, which I doubt that he wants to do. And if the Governor wants to change the rules, I believe those changes need GA approval, which he does not have the votes to do.
Comment by A Jack Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:50 am
If we want to argue about how silly the rules are, that is one thing. But for a chief executive to either not know the rules, or completely disregard them, is absolutely crazy.
Comment by Ducky LaMoore Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:51 am
It should be noted that “lack of funds” is not being disputed here solely for jobs funded by Federal sources, fees, and other non-general revenue funds. It’s being disputed for all the layoffs. Because the justification the administration cited was “lack of funds” despite the fact that everyone continues to be paid (and indeed has to per the courts).
I agree with the union that, at present, “lack of funds” is demonstrably false, for now. But note that isn’t the only reason people could be laid off. I don’t understand why thy didn’t use a different justification; I wonder if whoever wrote it up just didn’t know better.
I suspect if we had a budget, with specific agency allocations, then they really would be able to point to lack of funds, but I’m not really qualified to guess. And I assume that at some point the problem of a real, global lack of funds (state spending above revenue with no cash reserves) will become a problem for paying salaries regardless…but again, I’m not qualified.
But maybe I shouldn’t worry about my qualifications, since seems like no one in charge has any either…
Comment by Threepwood Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:53 am
Just FYI because changing the IL Constitution language on pensions would do nothing to change our current fix (about which I agree), doesn’t mean it’s not a good idea.
Unless we want to replay this whole mess 30-40 years from now, with a whole new cast of clowns. We didn’t get into this mess overnight, it would be a refreshing change to think about solutions that would prevent future fiascos, even if they too won’t materialize overnight.
Comment by ZC Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:55 am
Can we just knock off this talk about changing the game for pensions that are already owed? you can certainly change the terms of hiring new employees but those already in the system are off limits. It’s silly to waste time on the past - focus on the future.
Comment by Stones Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:57 am
State workers pd from federal funds, fines, fees, etc are still part of the overall budget. Many were previously pd by general revenue dollars but shifted to other funds because the state was out of money and because it was OK with federal and other laws.
Comment by Soccertease Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:58 am
Oswego Willy, Wordslinger, Norseman, Springfieldish, Joe M;
Sorry for the delay in responding. Been busy cleaning my office after the big KABOOM! As Vernon Dent would bellow in all those Three Stooges short comedies, “Who is responsible for this mess!”
So the unions are going to court to argue that a lack of funding, normally a good basis for layoffs, should not be the basis for layoffs? Sounds more like an Abbott and Costello comedy play on words routine than contradictory legal arguments to me. I don’t know about union contracts being “sacred” and I disagree with Willy trying to get me to admit that this sounds like man on the moon stuff, or Wordslinger claiming a court order to pay wages is the same as a court order forbidding layoffs under any circumstances, but . . .
KABOOM! There it goes again!
Comment by Louis G. Atsaves Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:58 am
Norseman - you’re partially right right that blame doesn’t solve problems. However, from a purely political perspective, how else would an opposing party every win elections?! “Yeah, the other side’s alright. I guess you could vote for us. But whatever.” Also - from a policy and governing standpoint - figuring out who was wrong and who caused a problem can be beneficial in how an office or a state is run. And when you use the textbook definition of “blame”, it’s simple: to hold responsible and to find fault. People do that in every day life. My wife and I do that in our marriage. Coworkers do that to each other - especially when tensions are high. Kids do that on the playground and in class. It’s human nature. And if we act like no one walks away scathed then we’ll never learn our lesson(s).
Comment by Team Sleep Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 10:00 am
I heard that at least one agency was targeting under performing workers with the layoff. But management didn’t understand bumping rights. The problem employees are going to be moved to new jobs and less senior employees will be laid off.
Comment by Chicago Guy Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 10:00 am
I really don’t care who to blame for the state’s budget problems. What I care about is who is working on solving them. Right now, it doesn’t appear that anyone with the ability to resolve this crisis is even trying.
Comment by Bluefish Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 10:01 am
ZC the two tier pension system was created to avoid the underfunding in the future. If the GA no longer thinks it will fix the problem, they can enact a third tier for new hires without Constitutional amendment. However, they do have to ensure it complies with Federal rules and there is some question if tier two even complies.
Comment by A Jack Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 10:01 am
And by the way, New York State has about eight tiers in their fully funded pension system.
Comment by A Jack Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 10:02 am
=== Sometimes blame has to be assigned. ===
When someone runs for governor, you would expect him to be aware of the history of the State and the current financial situation. How it got there is only a lesson on what not to do. Once you accept that job, the assumption is that you accept the challenge of running the state in spite of the previous administrations. So far, the governor has failed in producing a strategy for addressing the budget. His strategy of reducing the income of the 99% via union destruction is his only focus. Seems that he wanted the job for this purpose as opposed to actually running the state.
Comment by RetiredStateEmployee Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 10:02 am
– Seems to be working fine.–
AN, you must be one of those “conservatives” who likes record deficits and destroying the social service infrastructure.
Well, you definitely voted for the right guy for governor.
Comment by Wordslinger Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 10:04 am
I’m surprised that the Scott Walker meltdown hasn’t given Rauner pause to reconsider his ideological agenda. The idea that the rhetoric from Walker and Rauner about “union bosses” is — literally — identical — and the fact that Walker’s big union speech several days ago did nothing to move his needle except downward — would (to me, at least) make one realize that an anti-worker agenda is pretty much a non-starter (outside of war room, least).
Comment by Frenchie Mendoza Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 10:05 am
===Willy trying to get me to admit that this sounds like man on the moon stuff===
You say constantly that Democrats should craft their own budget. I can pull up where, - Louis G Atsaves -, so that begs the question;
Is Rauner inept? Does Rauner want the legislature to tell him (Rauner) his monetary priorities and what his (Rauner’s) agencies are worth, because Rauner just doesn’t care about funding the agencies and programs, and priorities of state government.
Not man on the moon, or making it about me… Which you do constantly. Just answer the question. Further…
If you want to admit Rauner can care less to fund the agencies he controls… or that Rauner, personally, is inept to do it… ok, let Madigan and Cullerton do it. Just admit it.
Pretty straight-forward.
Either Rauner is grossly inept and can’t do the job and needs the Legislature to tell him what agencies are worth, how things are funded and at what level, and what Rauner wants seem as his priorities, I’m cool with that.
Or…
Rauner personally cares little about Illinois, his own agencies, the funding of any and all programs, and even more sad, thinks so little of his own appointees, Rauner won’t fund their agencies to do any work… on purpose.
It’s one or the other, but the results are quite clear; Rauner’s choices have put Illinois in peril far worse then when he was sworn in.
“Pat Quinn failed… ” by his choices according to Candidate Rauner - Louis G Atsaves -, just as Rauner pointed to Quinn’s choices and ownership of those choices.
You can’t make it about me, or I guess you could - Louis G Atsaves -. It’s your… choice.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 10:10 am
Wordslinger aka Col. Kurtz
Comment by Honeybear Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 10:15 am
“You say constantly … I can pull up where …”
And THAT, ladies and gentleman, begs the question all its own: why does Oswego Willy have so much time to comment on this blog, day in and day out? And why does he - apparently - have the ability and the know-how to pull up comments that are weeks or months old?
It’s a mystery to all of us, for sure.
Comment by As We Go Silly Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 10:16 am
Frenchie - while Walker may have failed at the federal level, he’s still won three races in the last five years. He also helped turn over the Wisconsin GA. That’s not too shabby.
Comment by Team Sleep Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 10:17 am
- As We Go Silly -
Have ya heard of the “Google”?
Try this; hit the Google
“Louis G Atsaves Capitol Fax Democrats Budget Rauner
Get back to us… lol
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 10:20 am
When one party to a negotiation negatively calls out the other in public, sends confusing/contradicting messages, handles their day to day business like nothing is urgent, and sets pre-conditions to even going to the table to talk, human nature causes the other party to react. The reaction may take different forms, in this case it looks like, albeit non-productive, the dissed party is saying to the other party “your ballgame, you created the rules, you have the ball, we’re waiting”.
IMO,it’s all about negotiations, which are supposed to produce an end product. There is enough blame, in differing amounts, to pass around given the current status of productive negotiations. Again, IMO, when one side demonizes the other in public it creates an impediment to a final deal, usually the other side will eventually get over it and sit down to bargain. But when one party sets unacceptable pre-conditions to negotiating over the real subject at hand (a budget) it sets up a very, very unlikely scenario for a deal to be reached anytime soon.
All the cliques apply to this situation, “when you find yourself in a deep hole quit digging”, “never back yourself into a corner”, “always give your adversary an honorable means to retreat”. But even those seem difficult to make happen with the current budget talks impasse.
Comment by nadia Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 10:23 am
Willy - ha! Thanks for a good mid-morning laugh. I find some of the weirdest yet still pertinent stuff on Google. It’s amazing how many people in 2015 still wonder how you can garner info so fast.
Comment by Team Sleep Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 10:25 am
Seems that there are a whole lot of liberal heads exploding too.
Comment by john doe Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 10:41 am
- Team Sleep -,
Some just have to believe thst something’s under their bed.
Once this “Google” is more known, I’m sure these types of questioning will stop.
To the Post,
Is the Governor more with”
A: the Budget
B: having hostages with no blame
Or
C: the Turbaround Agenda at all costs, and no blame
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 10:46 am
Willy, Willy, Willy:
I have stated on multiple occasions that Democrats need to come up with a balanced budget. I didn’t say that on this issue today. But you continue changing the subject and trying to put words in my mouth to change the subject.
The issue as I see it on this issue on this posting today is the argument that a lack of funds will not prevent layoffs, even though the union admits that lack of funds is a reasonable basis for layoffs. Or, Bud Abbott meets Lou Costello. That in your eyes seems to be proof that Rauner is incompetent, which no one will find a causal relationship (not even in Workers’ Comp!) at this moment.
Stay focused on that one and try to answer it instead of roaming the entire internet and bringing in extraneous topics. It isn’t about you, except when you put words in others mouths.
Now excuse me for a while. I need to have the office carpeting cleaned from the two KABOOMS today.
Comment by Louis G. Atsaves Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 10:50 am
Some please explain exactly what it is that Brucie is doing as governor? Is he at home(s) watching Hannah Montana? Sure don’t see any signs of governing.
Comment by D.P.Gumby Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 10:51 am
===I have stated on multiple occasions that Democrats need to come up with a balanced budget. ===
So the Career Politicians like Madigan and Cullerton will dictate to Bruce Rauner the budget for all his agencies, prioroties… how much, how little… What programs?
So Rauner just doesn’t care, and the Democrats need to prioritize Rauner’s fiscal administration? Ok. lol
===The issue as I see it on this issue on this posting today is the argument that a lack of funds will not prevent layoffs, even though the union admits that lack of funds is a reasonable basis for layoffs.===
What is… the Administration’s… position.
You seem to have forgotten that part. An accident… or…
It comes back to the budget because, well, funding paid for, and knowing where it comes from gets to the heart of Rauner’s complete ineptness, or the blind desire to just destroy unions and think of reasons after.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 10:56 am
Team Sleep. Have at it during the elections. Candidates will throw everything at their opponents including the kitchen sink. But now we need a budget.
Comment by Norseman Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 10:56 am
I’m trying to parse the union’s argument-is it essentially that the Governor can’t use the lack of a *budget* (as opposed to a lack of *funds*) as justification for layoffs?
Comment by Stuck on the 3rd Floor Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 10:57 am
Pretty hard to legally argue for funds transfers when they help you, and against them when they hurt.
Comment by walker Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 11:05 am
Louis, you’re not making any sense today. Don’t let that carpet cleaner get the best of you.
Comment by Wordslinger Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 11:07 am
=== I have stated on multiple occasions that Democrats need to come up with a balanced budget. ===
Louis, Louis, Louis
Tons of folks have said that Rauner should come up with a balanced budget. He can’t without the GA and they can’t without Rauner so your mantra is only good for excuses as to why Rauner can’t engage in negotiations to come up with a budget.
Comment by Norseman Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 11:12 am
===He (Rauner) can’t without the GA and they can’t without Rauner so your mantra is only good for excuses as to why Rauner can’t engage in negotiations to come up with a budget.===
Well done, - Norseman -
Rauner needs 71 and 36; the Legislature needs a bipartisan roll call that Rauner won’t veto. That’s the ball game when Rauner decides he actually wants to talk “budget” instead of hostages.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 11:17 am
Louis:
I think you are confusing lack of funds with a lack of a budget - those are two different things. The actual dollars exist to pay these people because they are paid with federal funds and other state funds. I believe that is the argument that the union is making.
Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 11:18 am
==Seems to be working fine.==
Only in your goofy head is anything working fine now.
Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 11:19 am
Team Sleep - I agree with Frenchie, but also you are correct relative to Walkers ‘wins’ in Wisconsin. I think GovRauner has national ambitions, and may take note of Walkers national deflation and how that may reset his bust the unions agenda. All speculation of course. He may be totally committed to union busting now, because to change course would be perceived as a weakness, and that is a capital(ist) sin.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 11:24 am
I would be surprised if the Rauner camp looked on Walker’s withdrawal as a failure of the anti-labor platform. Walker pulled out due to a combination of being unprepared on nearly every other area of policy candidates are questioned about and a lack of campaign funding to extend into Iowa. If anything, Walker’s withdrawal and his national prominence means he’s a likelier candidate for Secretary of Labor than Rauner, who hasn’t done much to establish bona fides in any other area.
Comment by Stuck on the 3rd Floor Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 11:34 am
I believe the Illinois Constitution states that the Governor must produce a balanced budget first - which he did not do. His proposed budget was several billion dollars out of whack because he included “cost saving” ideas that were unconstitutional.
Comment by Way South of I-80 Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 11:37 am
“Rauner needs 71 and 36″
You keep saying that month after month, but the ONLY time it became a reality was when Madigan needed 71 and Rauner won when Madigan couldn’t deliver it.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 11:39 am
===You keep saying that month after month, but the ONLY time it became a reality was when Madigan needed 71 and Rauner won when Madigan couldn’t deliver it.===
Um, no…
It became 71 and 36 once July 1st hit.
You’re welcome.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 11:44 am
“Um, no…
It became 71 and 36 once July 1st hit.”
In the real world it became reality on Sept. 1 when Madigan needed 71 and could only come up with 68. Sorry Candy Sncacker.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 12:03 pm
===Sncacker===
Is it more of a insult to me or to Spelling?
If Rauner has tried to get a budget, say July 2nd, he would have needed 71.
Please, keep up.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 12:06 pm
=== we’re paying lower state taxes. Seems to be working fine. ===
Are those lower taxes due to Democrats or due to Rauner?
Comment by nona Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 12:14 pm
OW- my apologies, I really did try with this “Google” of which you speak but I could not find in the “Google” when the regular session begins again. Does the GA just keep going in overtime special session with the 71/36? If it changes back to regular how will this effect the calculus? Earnest Learner Question (after having tried to find it on the “Google” lol) I ain’t grown. As they say in East St. Louis.
Comment by Honeybear Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 12:15 pm
I would think it difficult to argue in court you need to do layoffs because of a lack of funds when you don’t have a budget to support your argument.
Comment by Pacman Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 12:16 pm
We have a new troll!
Anonymous - Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 12:03 pm
Please do not feed the trolls.
Comment by Norseman Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 12:18 pm
Honeybear, it’s an issue of effective dates of laws. You would have to look at that section in the constitution. During overtime session you need a supermajority to pass a bill with an immediate effective date. Budgets require an immediate effective date. The vote requirements go back to simple in January.
Comment by Norseman Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 12:23 pm
It goes back to 60 and 30, I believe, on January 1…
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 12:25 pm
=AN, you must be one of those “conservatives” who likes record deficits and destroying the social service infrastructure.
Well, you definitely voted for the right guy for governor=
Wordslinger. You must be one of those spend, spend, spend, tax, tax, tax, run up deficits guys. We can see over the last 12 years that didn’t work.
Comment by Apocalypse Now Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 12:30 pm
It’s Article IV, Section 10.
Comment by Stuck on the 3rd Floor Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 12:32 pm
===I also look foward to moving out of this high tax, low service dump next month and watching it burn from another state.===
We are broken-hearted you are leaving, but we’ll get over it. Honest.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 12:43 pm
Crying Wolf (and others), you do realize that the museum’s supervisors (non union) are still being laid off.
Comment by GlimmerGirl Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 12:59 pm
Nothing - here’s your hat. What’s your hurry?
Comment by Casual observer Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 1:02 pm
nothing - I’m sure you will adapt, watch that gate on the way out.
Comment by nadia Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 1:05 pm
Back to reality. So January is when things will get done? Man, just over three months. A heck of a lot of damage could be done by then. I wonder what bills could be passed? In trying to figure out the “when does the reg session start” question I found a site that listed the number of bills proposed and passes. Jeez, the numbers are WAY down. The GA seems to be more dysfunctional than I realized.
Comment by Honeybear Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 1:07 pm
Guys, leave Nothing alone. No need to respond to goofballs.
Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 1:09 pm
Apocolypse Now:
I know you like to bet your hyperpartisan drumbeat and all but if you want to have a discussion you need to at least be honest about it instead of constantly spouting off goofy talking points. This situation began a lot longer than 12 years ago. If you can’t admit that then I’ll relegate you to the troll pile.
Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 1:11 pm
“beat” your drumbeat
Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 1:11 pm
- Honeybear -
To the “big” question in all this, really, has to be;
If the wait is now to get to 60/30 math, how much destruction will happen in the next 97 days, plus?
I mean… It’s not like both Chambers will be in session on December 31st at 11:55 or so, WITH deals done, just waiting for midnight to hit… and structured roll calls fall, to give Illinois her budget… and Governor Rauner signs at 12:01.
It doesn’t even work that way procedurally.
I love the legislature, the processes, the theatre, the politics, but as you see in your research, at times antiquated to streamlining, which is good… and bad.
For me, all the math really does is put those looking fir an excuse to have one to blame the other side, and to allow me to see the true barometer of how close things really, truly, actually are to being done.
Reality? Come January 1st, Rauner is 17 votes free from the shackles of 71/36. Flip side? Rauner still needs 23 Democratic votes to fund his budget, and his Administration.
The rest? The rest is the theatre, the cobbling, the deal-making, the horse-trading, and all those not involved in the process, the waiting.
January 1st to me is 17 votes that need not be green, when the Governor decides running a government is more important that rallying a crusade.
With respect, and thanks, always, for your kind words.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 1:19 pm
““…but what I can agree with is why the unions are running our state and not someone elected by the people…””
The union is not running our state, they are following the laws of Illinois. Apparently, the guv does not understand or care about laws or how funding works. Rauner’s firing the DNR conservation officers was 100% political.
Comment by Mama Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 1:23 pm
=
I know you like to bet your hyperpartisan drumbeat and all but if you want to have a discussion you need to at least be honest about it instead of constantly spouting off goofy talking points. This situation began a lot longer than 12 years ago. If you can’t admit that then I’ll relegate you to the troll pile. =
Granted the problem began many years ago, but was greatly exacerbated over the last 12 years. Democrats could have controlled spending and didn’t. The pension mess go much worse with the failed bond issue. If the Democrats thought to highly of revenue being the solution, they could have made the increase tax increase permanent. They could have agreed to tax retirement income, with some credits to protect retirees with lower retirement income. Taxes and fees were also raised dramatically over the last 12 years. Face it Illinois is one of the highest taxing states in the US and people are leaving the state. Not partisan just a fact.
Comment by Apocalypse Now Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 1:34 pm
===If the Democrats thought to highly of revenue being the solution, they could have made the increase tax increase permanent.===
Rauner wanted it to sunset.
Please, either add something besides refuted talking points. Please.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 1:36 pm
The same people lecturing others about not playing the blame game are blaming Rauner for the Democrats not extending the income tax. Priceless.
Comment by Robert the 1st Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 1:39 pm
AN:
Well, you failed the test. When somebody tries to place the blame on one party or the other I know they aren’t serious about anything but partisanship and incapable of having an honest conversation. I see it on both sides here. People gnashing their teeth about how [insert political party] is to blame for everything. It’s nonsense and none of us should have any use for anybody that continues those sorts of nonsensical statements.
Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 1:40 pm
===Osewego is the dumbest poster on this board by far.===
O-S-W-E-G-O
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 1:42 pm
Did anyone ever break their newest,most favorite Christmas present made out of plastic? No amount of super glue, duct tape or parental loving could fix it. Me, I thinks the Land of Lincoln, Windy City and CPS are all like that plastic present.In this case it’s tax hikes, delayed pension payments and court mandated revenue spending , these aren’t going to fix the problem either. Take your medicine Windy City and CPS, show the rest of the state how to survive. You will rise out of the ashes bigger and better.
Comment by Blue dog dem Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 1:46 pm
===left wing, public sector union stooge.===
Bit long for a business card… and stooge… That’s a bit tired, overused, dontcha think?
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 1:47 pm
Willy:
That scenario doesn’t work.
The governor isnt going to sign a budget without approval of his Turnaround agenda.
He will veto it.
Comment by Juvenal Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 1:53 pm
“Look, - Nothing -, there’s… two kinds of dumb, uh… guy that gets naked and runs out in the snow and barks at the moon, and, uh, guy who does the same thing on Rich’s blog. First one don’t matter, the second one I’m sure Rich will deal with.”
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 1:54 pm
- Juvenal -,
That’s the optimist in me I guess…
No governor, and I mean no governor can go a whole year without a budget, and then be seen as even remotely successful, no matter the rabid the fan base.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 1:56 pm
“Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”
– Einstein
Comment by Frenchie Mendoza Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 1:57 pm
++- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 1:19 pm:++
Thanks
Comment by Mama Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 2:01 pm
Rauner only had to learn about 71 and 36, macro vs micro, AFTER he became Governor. Before that, all he had to do was ask nicely and the GA would do whatever he wants.
“Workers comp reform? 71 and 36, Governor. Income tax sunset? SAY! Why sure! All you had to do was ask, Mr. Rauner!”
Comment by Former Federal Prosecutor Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 2:07 pm
– The pension mess go much worse with the failed bond issue.–
AN, what “failed bond issue” was that?
Comment by Wordslinger Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 2:08 pm
We have another one earning Troll status today. Let’s give a big Troll non-welcome to:
Nothing Whose nickname says more about what he has to add than anything else.
Do not feed the troll.
Comment by Norseman Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 2:27 pm
==How difficult is it to get a constitutional amendment on the ballot regarding the pension item?==
right after you get the amendment lowering the payback on bonds….how about .50 on the dollar ?
==“Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”
– Einstein ==
I think the definition of insanity is all the people who constantly tell us Einstein’s definition of insanity.
Comment by Anotherretiree Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 2:41 pm
“Workers comp reform? 71 and 36, Governor. Income tax sunset? SAY! Why sure! All you had to do was ask, Mr. Rauner!”
So true. Rauner gets all the credit for the tax cut of 25% and Madigan is going to have to eat all the blame for the upcoming 2nd biggest tax increase in Illinois history, but only after he caves to some parts of the Rauner turnaround agenda. You guys only talk to your selves and are not listening to anyone outside your vacuum. Madigan is not winning. Rauner does not care about a 2nd term anyway.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 2:44 pm
So much of the blame game played here, on both sides. What has happened, has happened. Democrats and Republicans both have their share in today’s current mess. I’m a lot more concerned with how we get a budget passed, today, with the people in office, today.
Comment by Tournaround Agenda Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 2:50 pm
===Madigan is going to have to eat all the blame for the upcoming 2nd biggest tax increase in Illinois history, but only after he caves to some parts of the Rauner turnaround agenda.===
(Sigh)
Givernors sign tax increases, and once signed, governors own those increases. Always been, always will be.
Rauner needs the votes, or face the destruction of Illinois as his choice. Even Ounce of Prevention says the governor owns…
===You guys only talk to your selves and are not listening to anyone outside your vacuum. Madigan is not winning.===
People and groups are protesting Governor Rauner, not Speaker Madigan.
Those effected, they know, all governors know, they own.
You’d be surprised how many lives Rauner has personally put in, minimally, in a serious economic “spot”.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 2:51 pm
“Even Ounce of Prevention says the governor owns…”
Another post from the king of the CF vacuum. There are probably 1 out of 1000 Illinois voters that have ever heard of Ounce of Prevention. The other 999 know that Madigan wants to raise taxes.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 3:01 pm
===The other 999 know that Madigan wants to raise taxes.===
… and the Governor will sign that tax increase, and all 67 Republican state legislators, they’ll be “green” on the tax increase.
Madigan and Cullerton will demand it.
What’s your point?
All GOP Legislators will be voting for a tax increase, Rauner will sign the tax increase and your pouts is…
“Because… Madigan”?
lol
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 3:03 pm
Rats, the troll patrol wiped out the offending comments and now there is no context for the objections…they must have been real treasures.
Comment by Jake From Elwood Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 3:09 pm
You’d be surprised how many lives Rauner has personally put in, minimally, in a serious economic “spot”.
Yep, I can confirm that. HUGE amount. And wait till the Federal Government shut down cuts off food stamps temporarily. Man are you going to see some people motivated against the right.
Comment by Honeybear Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 3:18 pm
===they must have been real treasures===
Yeah, he was a real treat, that guy.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 3:20 pm
“All GOP Legislators will be voting for a tax increase, Rauner will sign the tax increase
Madigan and Cullerton will demand it.”
Good luck with that. His demands of his own caucus aren’t followed #71.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 3:34 pm
In my swing district, base only on random discussions, it’s roughly a toss-up between blaming Madigan or Rauner, among the 10 percent who even know we have a budget crisis. Among the remaining 40 percent who give a crap about the state at all — they wonder if Rauner is succeeding or failing. Too early to tell for them, but he’s the focus.
OW is right one sense. It doesn’t matter what the highly politically aware think or know. The general public always come to associate taxes, budgets, their economic health, education fails, problems with government agencies, potholes, with the President, Governor, or Mayor in office.
Comment by walker Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 3:35 pm
The average Joe will blame Rauner for everything that happened while Rauner was in office. That is how it works. The top dog gets the blame for everything that happens. I, personally, can’t wait for the next election cycle.
Comment by anon Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 3:38 pm
===Good luck with that. His demands of his own caucus aren’t followed #71.===
Please pay attention, I’ll go slow;
Rauner will be told that all 67 GOP legislators will be voting for the tax increase, or Rauner will get no budget.
Rauner needs a budget. These agencies, they’re Rauner’s. CMS? The agency sending letters about health insurance and state employees facing issues, that’s all under a letterhead with Bruce Rauner’s name up top.
Rauner, wanting a deal, will instruct Durkin, who will tell his members if the don’t vote for a tax increase, Rauner will primary them, and Radogno will demand her caucus go 20 “green” too. Rauner owns the GOP Caucuses.
Madigan and Cullerton won’t help, making sure all 67 GOP members are green. Why? What Dem member, after this spring, summer, mail, is going yo vite for a tax increase with Rauner giving GOP members a pass.
No. Way.
Then, Rauner WILL sign the tax increase. It will become law… with the ink from Rauner’s pen, and the green buttons of the GOP GA.
Please try and keep up to the Caucus politics, and Rauner needs, and how to get votes. Thanks.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 3:44 pm
“The top dog gets the blame for everything that happens. I, personally, can’t wait for the next election cycle.” said everyone in whatever the equivalent of the CF vacuum they have in Wisconsin for the recall election and then again for Walker’s second term.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 3:44 pm
===Wisconsin for the recall election and then again for Walker’s second term.===
Illinois is not Wisconsin, the legislature in both reflects that pretty clearly, and it reflects why Rauner isn’t very successful.
What else ya got?
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 3:46 pm
“Rauner will primary his own caucus members for voting against a tax increase.” You really need to get out of this vacuum. Do you really think that GOP members would care if they were primaried for voting against a tax increase?
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 3:52 pm
=== Do you really think that GOP members would care if they were primaried for voting against a tax increase?===
Were you paying attention to SB1229?
Were you understanding what Durkin “did”?
Do you understand Rauner owns the GOP GA?
Are you paying attention? lol
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 3:57 pm
===Do you really think that GOP members would care if they were primaried for voting against a tax increase? ===
Not if that’s what the issue was. And it won’t be.
While I do agree with some of your other comments today, that one displayed true ignorance.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 3:59 pm
Um, voting against the tax increase won’t save them when Rauner throws his cash into demonizing them and elevating the raunerite that will run against them into the next Ronald Reagan. Lol.
Comment by PublicServant Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 4:03 pm
“Were you paying attention to SB1229?”
Forcing a GOP member to vote no or present on a union veto override is not in the same ballpark as forcing ALL GOP members to vote yes for the biggest tax increase in history. Get out of the dorm room.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 4:07 pm
===Forcing a GOP member to vote no or present on a union veto override is not in the same ballpark as forcing ALL GOP members to vote yes for the biggest tax increase in history. Get out of the dorm room.===
Rauner won’t get his budget. Pretty simple.
It’s not the vote Rauner wants, it’s the vote that gets Rauner what he needs.
” - Anonymous - “, I’m actually certain, any deal Rauner wants, that will require the GOP GA all in on Revenue. That aunt dorm room, that Caucus Politics.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 4:11 pm
“That aunt dorm room, that Caucus Politics”
And all politics are local. Rauner is not that powerful and he surely found out about the local aspect of politics in each Country turnaround mtg. Rauner does not know localities like his caucus members do. Many would be in more danger, primary wise, if they vote for the largest permanent tax increase in history.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 4:17 pm
But Democrats wouldn’t?
Comment by Stuck on the 3rd Floor Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 4:21 pm
Where does this fiction originate that the governor does not want to raise taxes?
Do you seriously think he wants the gig for the next three years with current revenues? To be chief executive with the money left over after you cover the nut of the consent decrees and judges’ orders?
That’s lunacy. Whenever Rauner emerges from the bunker, he talks about his desire to raise taxes constantly, publicly.
He’s beggin’ for a face-savin’ out.
Duh. It’s just arithmetic.
Comment by Wordslinger Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 4:22 pm
” - Anonymous - ”
It’s not the tax, it’s the tax bundled and part and parcel with an agreed roll call placing all 67 GOP Members voting for the tax increase as part of the Rauner signed budget.
The roll call will be all 67 GOP green, or no Rauner deal.
It’s Caucus Politics. McSweeney, Ives, McCarter, all green on Rauner’s budget, with the largest tax increase passed since, you guessed it, the Quinn Tax Increase…
It’s the framing, bundling, and Rauner needing. It is.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 4:22 pm
Any Dem who votes for it opens the door for ILGO to run right at them on the basis of that alone.
Comment by Stuck on the 3rd Floor Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 4:23 pm
===Any Dem who votes for it opens the door for ILGO to run right at them on the basis of that alone.===
IllinoisGO is run by Rauner. If anything, any Dem voting that helps pass the tax increase AND the Rauner budget will get IllinoisGO cash, lol
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 4:26 pm
“It’s not the tax, it’s the tax bundled and part and parcel with an agreed roll call placing all 67 GOP Members voting for the tax increase”
Do any of these “67 GOP members” have future ambitions further than being pawns of this all powerful man? Voting yes for the biggest permanent tax increase in history would forever follow them in any future race.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 4:39 pm
It’s the framing, bundling, and Rauner needing. It is.
Master Yoda
Comment by Honeybear Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 4:40 pm
===Voting yes for the biggest permanent tax increase in history would forever follow them in any future race.===
lol, why do you think Rauner needs Turnaround Agenda victories as cover for these guys, and further, why do you think the $20 million in Rauner’s bank account and not in Durkin’s or Radogno’s Accounts?
You seeing how this is starting to play out yet? You see why Rauner holding the $20 million is more effective in making 67 buttons whatever color Rauner wants?
Rauner owns 67 votes. That’s the ball game right now. They will be green for that tax increase, the Rauner budget its attached to, and that WILL be that.
That $20 million isn’t there for “show”
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 4:43 pm
” - Anonymous - “,
If you think Rauner cares about the 67, their personal political futures, their districts…
… that fallacy was long disproved. The 67 are colored voting buttons to Bruce Rauner. It’s not the GOP, it is 67 chits, for a Raunerite way.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 4:47 pm
“That $20 million isn’t there for “show”
All of it is there to run against Democrats not to canabalize his own members. All of the candidates will be using up that $20M running ads about how the D they are running against voted for the largest permanent tax increase in history. He doesn’t have enough members now to cut off his nose to spite his face.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 4:52 pm
===All of it is there to run against Democrats not to canabalize his own members.===
LOL
Bruce Rauner, himself, told all the members of both Caucuses;
“You don’t want a $&@#% problem”
The $20 million is the stick to the ownership of both Caucuses.
You sure you’re paying attention?
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 4:55 pm
===All of it is there to run against Democrats not to canabalize his own members.===
Sen. McCann will like hearing this. I’m glad you’re in the know.
Comment by Norseman Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 4:57 pm
“Sen. McCann will like hearing this. I’m glad you’re in the know.”
That is a great point. McCann is going to be primaried by Rauner by guy who was actually in a dorm room 4 years ago. He went to school in Arizona and Indiana and just arrived in Springfield. I don’t think McCann is too worried. All politics are local and that $20 million isn’t going to change that.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 5:10 pm
===I don’t think McCann is too worried. All politics are local and that $20 million isn’t going to change that.===
Oh to be so naive… lol
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 5:12 pm
I really don’t think people understand. All my neighbors who voted for Rauner are finding out they were duped. My Avon lady lost my business, the kids I ALWAYS donate too when they come to my door think they have done something to make me mad. The Church I go to is losing some of my tithe. I don’t eat downtown anymore. Those are just examples of one state worker. Multiply that by how many there are and you are one door away from a neighbor can’t afford to take care of their house your neighborhood is accustomed to. I’ll bet you know one of these state workers. People that are jealous are gratified until they see how it hurts them. People that know how the economy works are scared enough for their community to educate themselves next time. Thanks for that Rauner.
Comment by present Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 5:16 pm
I don’t think necessarily agreeing to both as a Dem makes you Rauner’s new buddy. I think he’d rather have someone he’s owned from day one, who hasn’t felt the yoke of another. If it’s a district where a GOP candidate is laughed aside without consideration, using an ILGO candidate to go after someone who raised taxes seems a way to begin owning his own cross-aisle caucus without fear of any vestiges of free thought taking hold.
Comment by Stuck on the 3rd Floor Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 5:23 pm
===If it’s a district where a GOP candidate is laughed aside without consideration, using an ILGO candidate to go after someone who raised taxes seems a way to begin owning his own cross-aisle caucus without fear of any vestiges of free thought taking hold.===
What are you even talking about?
Do you know what the IllinoisGO’s objective actually is?
It’s to get Rauner to 60 and 30 by all means necessary, including having an alleged Republican Governor get involved in Democratic primaries to ensure Madigan doesn’t get 60 votes for Speaker, and in a longer game, making Radogno the Senate President.
Raunerite Caucuses. Not Republican.
- Stuck on the 3rd Floor -,
What 3rd Floor are you exactly… on?
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 5:32 pm
===…andidate is laughed aside without consideration, using an ILGO candidate to go after someone who raised taxes seems a way to begin owning his own cross-aisle caucus without fear of any vestiges of free thought taking hold.===
Rauner needs Dem votes. Needs. IllinoisGO is the reward not the stick in the taxes or budget voting needs.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 5:37 pm
Raising taxes,worrying about who gets primaried,Rauners ego and mandate. None of it matters unless there is some pension reform. Whether negotiated,court ordered,or god forbid reconciled thru strategic bankruptcies.
Comment by blue dog dem Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 8:04 pm
BDD, sorry to wake you, RIp, but while you were sleeping, the Supremes gave it a think and ruled that promised earned benefis cannot be reduced and must be paid.
Comment by Wordslinger Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 8:17 pm
Wordslinger..are you telling me the only option.left is bankruptcy?we tried everything else,and nothing seems to have worked.I would rather negotiate my reductions rather than have a federal bankruptcy judge dictate terms….
Comment by blue dog dem Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 8:24 pm
BDD, either you’re doing a bit or you need to get yourself up to speed on the issue.
Comment by Wordslinger Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 8:26 pm
===…are you telling me the only option.left is bankruptcy?===
What do you base this option on, your imagination?
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 8:29 pm
My party has not been able to fix the problem, I am up to speed on that.whats your solution raise taxes(again) and watch our children continue to leave the state. Folks,we got a big problem on our hand. Rauners “agenda” and anti union platform are not helping our problem.as OW repeatedly says, its the math.
Comment by blue dog dem Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 8:34 pm
BDD,
Right now bankruptcy is not a legal option for the state. Even if it was, a federal bankruptcy judge would have to overcome a whole bunch of ‘hands off when it comes to state employees” / “states rights” precedents.
And when it comes to pension reform, we’ve had it … it is called “Tier 2″. “tier 2″
Comment by RNUG Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:39 pm
Darn, hit enter accidentally… continuing
According to the projections, “Tier 2″ actually costs the state zero, nothing, nada. The employee payments are scheduled to fully pay for the retirement benefits AND pay off a small amount of the “Tier 1″ pension debt.
Here’s the truth the IL SC spoke and that some people are still refusing to recognize: the $110B pension shortage / debt MUST BE REPAID.
Comment by RNUG Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 9:42 pm
Agreed on state bankruptcy, even though it will eventually have to be challenged at the USSC. My contention has been if we continue to pillage the poor and middle class through property tax,sales tax, sugar tax, casinos,income tax, there will be nobody left.I thought us Dems we’re supposed to defend the poorand middle class.
Comment by Blue dog dem Wednesday, Sep 23, 15 @ 10:12 pm
Here’s the truth the IL SC spoke and that some people are still refusing to recognize: the $110B pension shortage / debt MUST BE REPAID.
That is correct. How can we think otherwise?
Governmental leaders are not elected to break our constitution, contract laws, and harm citizens. Anyone running for office advocating the lie that if elected, they could do something to turn government against the people by not paying them what they have earned, they need to be thrown out of office immediately.
Bankruptcy is no solution for any government. It permanently makes it illegitimate.
Comment by VanillaMan Thursday, Sep 24, 15 @ 7:34 am
“I thought us Dems we’re supposed to defend the poorand middle class.”
Sorry BDD. You’re confused. You’re a Social Welfare Democrat. Most on this board are Public Union Democrats.
Comment by Robert the 1st Thursday, Sep 24, 15 @ 9:07 am