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* From my old pal Kent Redfield…
Hi Rich,
I am just sitting around, looking for things to keep my mind off the Cards’ early exit from the playoffs. Truth be told, I am not a Cub hater, so I will gladly root for them against any of the teams left in the playoffs.
I know this is not new and it occasionally gets reported in the press, but it drives me nuts that the Governor keeps talking about term limits and redistricting reform in the same breath that he talks about necessary reforms that will help the Illinois business climate and turn our economy around.
The Governor’s constitutional amendment on redistricting (HJRCA 40 or 42) would not have any impact until the 2022 election and if the Governor gets elected to a second term and if he keeps his pledge to serve only two terms, then he would be leaving office just before the legislature elected under the new map would be sworn in.
The Governor’s constitutional amendment on term limits (HJRCA 39 or 41) is a ten year limit for legislators, but it would not have any impact on the House elections until the 2026 elections since service before January of 2017 would not count against the ten year limit.
It is a little more complicated for the Senate because a Senator elected for a four year term in 2016 and a two year term in 2020 or a two year term in 2016 and 4 year term in 2018 would have 6 years of service toward the limit before the 2022 election. Senators in these circumstances that ran in districts that were 2-4-4 in 2022 would be limited to 8 year of service since running for a 4 year term in 2024 would give them 12 years. This would potentially be 1/3 of the Senate, but incumbent losses or decisions not to run for reelection would surely make the number smaller. For the Senators with 6 years of service going into the 2022 election who ran in districts that were 4-4-2 or 4-2-4 would be able to serve a 4 year term and get to 10 years of service. This would potentially be 2/3 of members of the Senate although the number again would not be that high due to losses and decisions to run for re-election. Since the sequencing of Senate terms is a random draw, the term limit proposal would have a random effect on a few incumbent senators every 10 years, limiting them to 8 years rather than 10 year of service depending on the luck of the draw.
The limit on 8 years of service in any executive office starting in January of 2017 would have some weird effects, but basically would not have any impact until the 2022 election where all the current incumbent constitutional officers and whoever is elected Comptroller next year could not run for any executive office, assuming they run and are reelected in 2018.
Bottom line, the Governor’s term limit proposal would not have any impact until the 2026 election for the House, the 2024 election for the Senate and the 2022 election for constitutional officers.
I know I am probably being silly, acting like the Governor actually cares about the content or the impact of these proposals, but once a policy wonk, always a policy wonk.
I think I am reading these two proposals correctly. If I am, then holding the budget hostage for “reforms” that will not have any impact until 2022 for redistricting and 2022, 2024 or 2026 for term limits is beyond crazy and the worst kind of pandering. How about this for ad supporting the Turnaround Agenda?
“Turn the Illinois economy around. Tell your legislator to pass the Governor’s term limit proposal and we can force Speaker Madigan out of office in January of 2027, just a few months shy of his 85th birthday”
Having vented, I will go look for some carb free, salt free, low cholesterol way to drown my sorrows that does not violate any of the Illinois Substance Abuse Laws.
Keep up the [cardio] rehab, it is really worth committing to.
Take care,
Kent
posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 8:33 am
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Boy, could I have a beer or 6 with gentleman.
Clear, concise, thoughtful, “playful”,… rational.
There’s so much good in that, it pains me that it’s lost on thise needing to understand the “why” it’s so, so, good.
I’ll get first round…
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 8:40 am
And except for Rich, no one will report that basic truth. The only thing that gets published is Dems won’t compromise on needed structural reforms. What say you Rauner people who get so testy at any criticism of the Governor? Still think this is worth it?
Comment by sideline watcher Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 8:45 am
We already have term limits. They are called elections.
Comment by DuPage Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 8:49 am
I know that there are both news junkies and political junkies on this site. Our news outlets — print, TV, radio, and internet feeds — all of them provide such truncated stories that this kind of detail is never delivered to the masses. Maybe the masses do not want and will not pay attention to a detailed news analysis, but this is sadly missed in today’s journalism.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 8:50 am
Negotiations begin at opposite ends and conclude near the middle. Kent Redfield is a legend, but he assumes these “crazy” demands are what Bruce Rauner wants.
Comment by 1 Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 8:52 am
===…he assumes these “crazy” demands are what Bruce Rauner wants.===
So Rauner holds up a state budget for over 100 days, decimates Social Service providers, state facilities literally have no water because it’s shut off, Federal and State Judges are dictating payments under the threat of the Comptroller being in Contempt of Court and doing time in a jail…
… and these are “starting points”?
Man, I’d hate to see Rauner when it gets down to what Rauner really wants…
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 8:57 am
I agree with Redfield and the comments about truncated reports from media. The lack of analytical analysis by mainstream media has exacerbated the gridlock and feeds the extreme positions of both sides of the problem. Our populace is woefully misinformed/underinformed.
Comment by illinoised Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 8:58 am
“Still think this is worth it?” We have been in similar places before with our bill backlog and lack of funding for part of the year. Let’s not pretend we are going from utopia to chaos and it is all Rauner’s fault.
Comment by 1 Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 9:00 am
If Rauner does not use the tactics he is using, the democrats under any circumstances will not allow voters the chance to vote on term limit or redistricting amendments despite their constituents wanting them overwhelmingly.
Comment by Very Fed Up Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 9:03 am
- 1 -,
When was the last intervention by a stste and federal judge threatening Jail for a Constitutional Officer of the stste of Illinois due to a budget?
This is uncharted lunacy by the governor.
Lemme guess, “Madigan did all this… “
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 9:04 am
Let’s destroy our state today on the theory that we can improve it 10 to 20 years from now? Will that improvement be compared to Jun 30, 2015 levels or whatever level we end up at by the time we get a budget? This article is the best summation of why Rauner’s demands regarding the Turnaround Agenda vs. the Budget don’t make any sense - never mind anyone’s political leanings.
Comment by thoughts matter Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 9:05 am
I find it humorous at best that a man who has spent his entire academic career pushing “sunshine” laws/rules - and forcing his students to buy his book and listen to his inane lectures about the subject - is now acting as though other reforms aren’t necessary and wondering why a sitting Governor is pushing for them. You can’t have it both ways, Professor Redfield.
Full disclosure - I had Professor Redfield for a class at UIS.
Comment by Team Sleep Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 9:06 am
You’re right - the “masses” do not want or care about this much “detail” - which is why it is so easy to sway them with the Raunner message - that he has the financial muscle to deliver effectively and with frequent assists from the media. He thinks he is “winning” and that is good enough for him. He will stay the course no matter the consequences to those not in his economic status.
Comment by skeptical Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 9:07 am
Um, and - 1 -,
Rauner, himself, is holding up the budget, unlike anyone ever, to the lengths no one ever has done.
How do I know, @RonSandack told me so;
@RonSandack: I’m frustrated 2, but taking steps towards reforming IL more important than short term budget stalemate.
Yep, it IS Rauner choosing, it IS Rauner’s fault.
The Owls says its so.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 9:07 am
== Boy, could I have a beer or 6 with [that] gentleman. ==
Agreed. Great analysis.
== We already have term limits. They are called elections. ==
Also agreed. I’m not especially interested in giving either major party more control over elections than they already wield, which is one of the unintended consequences of term limits.
Comment by thunderspirit Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 9:07 am
“hate to see Rauner when it gets down to what Rauner really wants.” This either pretends not to understand or does not understand the fundamentals of negotiating. You moderate and compromise in order to reach agreement, not demand more than you initially asked for.
Comment by 1 Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 9:10 am
This standoff is more about winning than substance.
Comment by Stones Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 9:12 am
===You moderate and compromise in order to reach agreement, not demand more than you initially asked for.===
You are not paying attention to what Rauner wants, and what Rauner demands.
You are assuming Rauner is willing to negotiate away these or other things;
The leaders are NOT meetin’ to negotiate anythin’. What are you basing your assumption on with Rauner? His tactics? Then Rauner owns his tactics.
Wasn’t you who just said;
===…and it is all Rauner’s fault.===
This choice IS Rauner’s fault, lol
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 9:16 am
“Lemme guess Madigan did all this…”
Stop fooling yourself and marginalizing other perspectives. Lemme guess, Madigan, the governors who spent jail time, and their predecessors had nothing to do with this accumulation of overwhelming debt for decades.
Ya think things may be in a bit better position today had they run balanced budgets and not taken so much from the pensions? Or did those budgets just pass and sign themselves for the past 30 years?
Comment by 1 Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 9:17 am
Dr. Redfield is great, had a few classes with him. Spot on as usual.
Comment by Mittuns Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 9:23 am
When reporting on term limits, nobody ever reports about the power and knowledge shifting from elected officials to special interests and staff. No one ever speculates that an outgoing legislator may cut an unsavory deal to get a job. No one ever reports that you can’t replace years of experience in the capitol. If those legislators truly believe in term limits, sign your resignation today. Don’t wait, be a purist, sign your resignation.
Comment by 360 Degree TurnAround Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 9:28 am
- 1 -, I’m asking you to make your case. Don’t blame me if you can’t.
===Ya think things may be in a bit better position today had they run balanced budgets and not taken so much from the pensions? Or did those budgets just pass and sign themselves for the past 30 years?===
Mr. Redfield, in his note to Rich is talking about… today. The here, the now, today.
So, budgets, signed by Republican Governors Thompson and Edgar too, along with Speaker Daniels and President Phillip are “responsible” for a Term Limit “demand” that won’t take place for a decade being a reason Rauner is holding the state hostage, by his choice, and the best you can argue is that “it’s not Rauner’s fault” for Rauner’s own chives to this stalemate, because Rauner is just “getting ready” to negotiate in good faith?
Geez Louise, that’s a long way to get to “Because… Madigan”
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 9:28 am
1…yes we’ve been here before. We had an over 10 billion dollar backlog. We weren’t making full pension payments. Then we raised the income tax and paid off half the backlog and made full pension payments without borrowing and we funding critical government services with cuts. In short we had a mix of cuts and revenue. Now we’ve sure turned that all around! I know it’s really difficult when facts get in the way of your ideology. You can’t willfully re write history.
Comment by sideline watcher Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 9:32 am
Well, I will be a lonely voice here. Not a Rauner fan, but I get it from a purely political aspect. Redistricting reform and term limits are hugely popular, no matter how much the Democrats and former Madigan staffers hate it. So why wouldn’t Rauner use that? He’d be foolish not to. What is he supposed to do — thunder about tort reform or prevailing wage? Most people don’t even know what that is.
And, if not now, when should somebody push for these items? Get down on the floor and kick and scream all you want, but the “Oh, we’ll get to that later” stuff doesn’t work in this state. Kind of like the Democrats ramming through a two-year term for the Topinka replacement in the waning minutes of the Quinn Administration. He used his advantage, and left to his own worst devices, wanted his own 4-year replacement instead.
Frankly, I wish the media would start using a variety of voices from seasoned, respected political professionals instead of the same tired two or three academians who wouldn’t know how to win an election or enact a law if they stumbled upon the Illinois Capitol from their gilded, bloated, academian existences.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 9:33 am
Also, I’m not exactly sure how term limits and a remap are supposed to right the fiscal ship, even in the 2020s. One might suppose that a legislator in a more swingy seat who doesn’t have to deal with state issues long-term would be *more* willing to dole out the budgetary feel-goods.
Comment by Arsenal Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 9:35 am
==You moderate and compromise in order to reach agreement==
When is the Governor going to do that? ‘Cause we’re in, what, month four of the shutdown?
==And, if not now, when should somebody push for these items?==
Push for them whenever you want, just don’t shut down the state over them.
Comment by Arsenal Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 9:39 am
===So why wouldn’t Rauner use that? He’d be foolish not to. What is he supposed to do — thunder about tort reform or prevailing wage?===
Then you agree Rauner owns holding up a budget, crippling Social Service providers, ruining the credit rating for McPier, utilities, that’s all on Rauner choices for… Term Limits?
The other? I don’t think Mr. Redfield addressed those things in your rant, but…
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 9:40 am
I understand Mr. Redfield’s point, but it ignores the big picture. The term limits and redistricting reform aren’t the entirety of the Governor’s “Turnaround Agenda.” Some of the other provisions would provide an immediate financial benefit to the state. I get that the unions (and Democrats) are opposed, but the Governor does desire those more immediate reforms and they can’t be ignored when talking about the
Governor’s broader agenda. The “political reforms” will take more time to effectuate, as Mr. Redfield points out, but that’s not a justification for not doing them, nor an argument that they wouldn’t eventually benefit the state. Both a short-term and long-term approach is required.
Comment by Illannoyed Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 9:43 am
The point is that no matter what you think about redistricting or term limits on their merits it is beyond cruel to hold the state budget hostage to something that won’t happen until 2022. I get that there are some people who just plain don’t give a damn about that fact. The state needs a budget TODAY! So just say what you really think that this argument over what won’t take effect until 2022 is more important than sick children, elderly, etc. That is what you are saying. If you think redistricting is more important than dismantling the entire childcare network so be it. I get that there is no convincing people who believe they have no responsibility to anyone other than their people that caring about the community and the least of these is a worthy and necessary endeavor. I feel sorry for you.
Comment by sideline watcher Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 9:43 am
Also, the idea that term limits and a remap are Rauner’s goals is completely belied by his actions. If that’s what he wanted, he’d drop the anti-union fanfic. They’re the bug, not the feature.
Comment by Arsenal Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 9:44 am
I never said “blame Madigan”. That was you being far too defensive of Madigan for some reason. I did say that it is not all Rauner’s fault. You are making baseless assumptions and appear reluctant to acknowledge the fact that both Madigan and Rauner bear some responsibility for this situation and this impasse.
Comment by 1 Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 9:44 am
==We have been in similar places before==
No, we haven’t.
And -1-, this isn’t a normal negotiation. If you think it is then you are fooling yourself.
Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 9:45 am
==they can’t be ignored when talking about the
Governor’s broader agenda==
Sure the can! Watch Rauner or the Trib talk about “The Turnaround Agenda”, they put on a clinic in how to ignore Rauner’s anti-union fanfic.
Comment by Arsenal Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 9:46 am
==and they can’t be ignored when talking about the
Governor’s broader agenda==
We’d all be better off if some realized that it’s beneficial to all to ignore some of them. The union stuff ain’t gonna happen. Period. End of story. That’s the biggest thing that drives me nuts in all of this. He needs to move off of that. And do it now. Or, this thing ain’t ending any time soon.
Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 9:47 am
- Illannoyed -,
Rauner will not get the entirety of his agenda, given the GA he has as a Co-Equal partner. It’s plain to see compromise is, and will be, the order of the day.
The premise that Term Limits should hold hostage today’s budget for something that will take effect nearly a decade later, if not longer, is really framed exceptionally well be Mr. Redfield.
To your point, Mr. Redfield responds;
===… then holding the budget hostage for “reforms” that will not have any impact until 2022 for redistricting and 2022, 2024 or 2026 for term limits is beyond crazy and the worst kind of pandering.===
Pandering. At the cost of people. Rauner owns that.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 9:49 am
No way possible Madigan will be ready to retire in 2027. Great letter.
Term limits simply shift authority and power to the other institutional authorities - lobbyists and staffers, away from the legislators and leaders. It’s not a good thing - ask policy experts in any state where they have them.
Comment by siriusly Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 9:53 am
== the fact that both Madigan and Rauner bear some responsibility for this situation and this impasse==
I still remain unclear on what “Madigan bears some responsibility” is supposed to mean. It’s not like the Constitution gives the Governor an “ignore the legislature if you think the problem was their fault” workaround.
Comment by Arsenal Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 9:53 am
So Rauner wants term limits because that’s what the public wants. I guess the public cares so much for it that they’ve voted out of office Cong. Shimkus and others who’ve broken their promise to serve a limited term.
Comment by Norseman Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 9:55 am
- 1 -,
===I never said “blame Madigan”.===
Hmm.
=== Lemme guess, Madigan, the governors who spent jail time, and their predecessors had nothing to do with this accumulation of overwhelming debt for decades.===
Sounds like you’re blaming Madigan…
===I did say that it is not all Rauner’s fault. You are making baseless assumptions and appear reluctant to acknowledge the fact that both Madigan and Rauner bear some responsibility for this situation and this impasse.===
Really?
=== This either pretends not to understand or does not understand the fundamentals of negotiating. You moderate and compromise in order to reach agreement, not demand more than you initially asked for.===
You’re saying this is Rauner’s own negotiating tactic.
Rauner’s. Not Madigan’s.
You seem to jump all over the place. I can see why you may not like someone questioning you…
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 9:57 am
To the staunch defenders of nuclear options…Methinks the point is, Gov Rauner is using folks’ notoriously short attention spans to his own advantage. He knows that no one will know the truth of the matter on term limit reforms (thanks to Dr Redfield, now I do), and he presents it as poof, magic will happen if my term limit proposal is approved.
I believe that at some point, ends do not justify the means. Holding the entire public health, social service and business vendors providing services to Illinois citizens hostage for months on end.
You cannot fix decades of bad budget decisions in one budget year. Unless you are a CEO of a BUSINESS, or are a dictator in a non-democratic society.
Comment by Gobsmacked Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 10:04 am
SIUE is offering early retirement to try to cope with the lack of a budget. Oops, another unintended consequence of the hostage situation, more people being paid out than paying in to SURS…
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 10:07 am
==Some of the other provisions would provide an immediate financial benefit to the state. ==
Could someone puts some number behind this statement. Some of you assume this to be true but there is no evidence that paying the working public less somehow puts the state in a better position. Lower wages = lower income tax and lower sales tax. Show me a formula that proves this assumption wrong.
Comment by RetiredStateEmployee Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 10:07 am
And yes, I do know the turnaround agenda focuses on more than term limits. As I suspect, does Dr. Redfield.
Comment by Gobsmacked Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 10:08 am
I am Anon at 9:33 a.m.
@Willy: Then you agree Rauner owns holding up a budget, crippling Social Service providers, ruining the credit rating for McPier, utilities, that’s all on Rauner choices for… Term Limits?
Rauner’s Turnaround Agenda are much more than Term Limits and Redistricting Reform; however, I was making the point that I get politically why he focuses his remarks on those two topics. They remain popular in an environment where the voters hate everyone. It makes political sense for him to focus his remarks on those items, and that is what Redfield was questioning.
The vicious anti-union components of the Turnaround Agenda remain both a mystery and an anathema to me.
Willy, you and I generally agree, but you need to take a deep breath this morning. If you really thought that was a rant on my part . . . .
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 10:11 am
Term limits are ill-advised, but very popular. Fine. Ride the issue to help win the election.
A fair remap proposal is the fundamental change that can do the most to improve our political process and its outcomes. We have another year to get it on the ballot. Keep at it, thru the GA or by petition, but that doesnt mean we should go without a budget until after the election.
The constitution lays out what is required to pass a bill, governor. Coercion and destruction produce angst and suffering. Even if you believe thats an appropriate strategy, recognize that it is NOT working, and wont work.
Comment by Langhorne Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 10:12 am
Gob - yeah, I’m in agreement with you on the budget thing. It’s going to take years to even out fully. I’m guessing Rauner thinks he can just do what he wants now and then spend money to make voters “forget” in 2018.
Comment by Team Sleep Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 10:12 am
- Anon -,
Respectfully, I didn’t see it as a rant, I wanted to clarify, as Mr. Redfield ses to be saying, that holding up needed services to citizens for a very difficult and time consuming process that won’t reach full completion or the impact felt for over a decade isn’t “a way to run a railroad”.
If Rauner wants people to suffer and cripple social services under that premise, then Rauner owns that, no matter how popular the “program” is, or the damage that is being caused to pander to voters.
That’s all. The “Redfield Note” speaks to that all by itself.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 10:18 am
I am not a fan of term limits (except for leadership spots). That being said, I cannot agree with the logic behind Mr. Redfield’s analysis. It brings to mind the story JFK told when confronted with similar naysayers:
The great French Marshall Lyautey once asked his gardener to plant a tree. The gardener objected that the tree was slow growing and would not reach maturity for 100 years. The Marshall replied, ‘In that case, there is no time to lose; plant it this afternoon!’
Comment by phocion Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 10:23 am
“I am not a fan of term limits (except for leadership spots).” Time for a sports metaphor… “I’m sorry Mr. Arrieta, but you’ve been a starting pitcher for too long. You can only pitch out of the bullpen from now on.” or “I’m sorry Mr. Payton, you can only gain 10,000 yards. You can’t play football in Illinois any more.”
Comment by Skeptic Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 10:44 am
The governor isn’t really interested in term limits. If he was, he wouldn’t have pushed that obviously unconstitutional ballot question last year.
He used that to gather voter data. And he and the GOP will run next year on term limits.
For now, term limits and redistricting are just there to give goo-goo cover to the anti-union stuff.
I’m convinced by now that union-busting is Rauner’s only goal as govenor. He can’t point to any economic or fiscal analysis justifying it. He just wants it, as a personal prize.
The willful sabotage he is inflicting on the state in pursuit of that trophy will take years to recover from.
Comment by Wordslinger Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 10:45 am
Bruce Rauner, with his eyes closed and fingers in his ears, “Nah,Nah,NahNah,Nah…can’t hear you.”
Bruce Rauner’s staff, with their eyes bulging, “What did we get ourselves into?”
Comment by Austin Blvd Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 10:49 am
Skeptic,
Mike Madigan aint no Jake Arieta.
Comment by phocion Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 10:52 am
Wordslinger is on it. Union-busting is Rauner’s (only) interest. He is just using poll-friendly initiatives of term limits and re-mapping to get the Trojan Horse of a Turn-around agenda filled with union-poison pills invited in and accepted.
Comment by Concerned Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 10:56 am
Skeptic, very good analogy.
Comment by Norseman Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 11:14 am
I second “Concerned” @ 10:56am comments above. But unfortunately John-Q-Public does not dig in deeply enough to see past Rauner’s sound bites.
Comment by Capitol Fax Follower Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 11:29 am
Skeptic - no offense, but:
A) Comparing sports to real life is silly. Just my opinion.
B) Teams limit players all the time. Ever hear of Stephen Strasburg or Matt Harvey? How about when Bill Belichik tells Tom Brady to hand the ball off for an entire quarter so he doesn’t risk injury? Or when Urban Meyer rotates his QBs out to ensure they don’t suffer an entire four quarters of abuse? Just like on a state-to-state basis, some teams limit their players and institute “pitch counts” and other’s don’t.
Comment by Team Sleep Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 11:32 am
=== A) Comparing sports to real life is silly. Just my opinion. ===
Silly in your opinion. Makes a valid comparison to those who don’t bother to analyze the issue. IMHO it’s silly to get rid of an effective person solely based upon the length of time they’ve been around.
=== B) Teams limit players all the time. … ===
But NEVER for the sole reason that they’ve been around too long. Decisions are based upon diminished skills, fiscal reasons, behavioral issues …
Comment by Norseman Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 11:48 am
phoicon: If we had politicians as good as Arrieta, we wouldn’t be in the mess we’re in.
Comment by Skeptic Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 11:54 am
Good reminder by another, well-respected voice.
Comment by walker Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 12:08 pm
Nonpartisan redistricting and term limits may be put on the 2016 ballot by petition. If the General Assembly voted for these measures, they would be onthe same 2016 ballot. So why hold the budget hostage for something Rauner can attain just as fast via the iniative? The only reason is that those aren’t his real goals. As Wordslinger said, Raunder’s real goal is union busting, and the rest is window dressing.
Comment by nona Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 12:17 pm
=We already have term limits. They are called elections.=
Couldn’t have said it better.
Comment by Qui Tam Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 12:24 pm
Redfield pointed out the most egregious examples.
But even the Turnaround items that could have actual fiscal impact, have very shaky financial forecasts from what was portrayed in the campaign, and also would be years out best case.
Comment by walker Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 12:31 pm
With gerrymandering resulting in most races being uncontested or nominally so, how can one say elections equal term limits?
Comment by J Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 12:37 pm
=With gerrymandering resulting in most races being uncontested or nominally so, how can one say elections equal term limits?=
Gerrymandering certainly needs to be addressed. It also tends to run along the 2-party lines. So term limits would just get the same gerrymandered party result with even less voter choice.
Term limits are a bogus way to address gerrymandering.
Comment by Qui Tam Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 1:16 pm
I’ve been saying this over and over until I’m blue in the face and begging Dems to seize the messaging on the turnaround agenda. “How many jobs will be created by term limits and redistricting reform?” Zilcho.
Comment by Chicago Cynic Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 2:10 pm
It drives me crazy that a self described “policy wonk” doesn’t seem to understand the most basic of policy, and yes political, components. Raising taxes, without citizens having a bit of trust or confidence in their government has utterly failed. So of course term limits and fair maps correlate to a budget resolution. The former is a departure from exactly what got us in this fiscal mess- career politicians who draw their maps to … enhance their career and power! Duh. Redfield’s dim view hardly qualifies him as a “policy wonk” by any objective standards; other than this echo chamber.
Comment by Georg Sande Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 2:15 pm
As it has been since the beginning, Rauner wants what he wants what he wants. This is just a game to him and we all are his pieces to be moved around and discarded until he decides the game is over.
Comment by Anon Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 2:16 pm
Georg:
Spoken like somebody who doesn’t have the faintest clue what the background of Mr. Redfield is.
And, you clearly let his entire point go right over your head.
Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 2:27 pm
I’m sorry Georg Sande…that’s ridiculous. What got us here was rolling back an income tax and blowing a 5 billion dollar hole in the budget. Not acknowledging that absolute fact is what is crazy.
Comment by sideline watcher Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 2:34 pm
Demoralized: Oh, so it’s THAT Kent Redfield!! Gosh I’m sorry. That now makes … no difference at all. I got his point, knucklehead. I say his point plainly ignores certain policy and political realities. Tax increases without engendering trust and confidence is a non-starter and that’s how and why it connects to the budget. #Duh Sideline Watcher: The surprise/Midnight tax increase was sold on paying down the backlog of unpaid bills which still to this day totals over $4.77B. Why? Because SPENDING increased each and every year since the increase. Taxing more does not cause any spending wisdom, we know this from umpteen examples in Illinois so … some governing reforms like term limits/fair mapping may cause the citizenry to have some semblance of buy-in. #YourCrazy
Comment by Georg Sande Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 3:04 pm
Boy - Georg Sande - you’re right.
You’re right.
Except Rauner’s own budget… needs the Tax Increase too.
Kinda blows a big hole in all that typing you just did…
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 3:17 pm
Georg:
You questioned his “policy wonk” credentials. I called you on it.
And, no, you don’t get it.
Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 3:21 pm
By the way Georg, without that tax increase that bill backlog would have been probably double what it was. And if the tax rate had stayed the same we wouldn’t be in quite the mess we are in now (mess yes, to this extent, no). You’re welcome.
Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 3:22 pm
==Because SPENDING increased each and every year since the increase==
See pension payments. You’re welcome.
Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 3:26 pm
“governing reforms like term limits/fair mapping” Yes, that will reduce expenditures like nothing else will. Sheesh.
Comment by Skeptic Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 4:27 pm
The House and Senate meet on October 20, 2015. I think the businesses in Illinois should shut down and we should all show up in Springfield on that date. We should demand a resolution to the budget. We should camp out there until something is done.
Comment by Reality Check Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 4:30 pm
look, Rauner made a fortune in Illinois.
He chose Chicago, for many reasons, I’m sure, but not least he did so to gather the bust out crew — banks, accountants, lawyers, hustlers, — that could make it work.
Chicago was good to him.
Now, for some reason, he has a weirdo, personal hard-on for unions, and doesnt care who suffers to bust them.
So here we are. How do you get him off the freak show?
Comment by Wordslinger Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 5:36 pm
I disagree that Rauner is pushing for term limits because it’s a popular subject. Besides busting unions, he also wants more Republicans elected to office. Doesn’t he have a stated goal of a R majority in the GA? Then what? Legislation written by special interests and ALEC.
Comment by cailleach Wednesday, Oct 14, 15 @ 11:03 pm