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* Sun-Times…
Leaders from three West Side gang factions allegedly met last week to discuss plans to shoot members of the Chicago Police Department in response to the fatal police shooting of Paul O’Neal.
The meeting took place Thursday between higher-ups from the Vice Lords, Black Disciples and Four Corner Hustlers, according to an alert issued to department members the day after the meeting.
The Four Corner Hustlers “provided guns” and have “a sniper in place” though authorities do not know where, according to the alert. The Four Corner Hustlers also are supplying the other two gangs with automatic weapons, which all three factions also have agreed to use against police, the alert states. […]
According to police sources, department members have also been advised to “limit interactions and visibility.”
And then the FOP president blamed the O’Neal family lawyer and the Independent Police Review Authority for the problem. Always helpful, that guy.
* Mayor Emanuel’s response…
There are 12,500 men and women who wake up every day, put on a uniform, hug their families, and leave their houses to spend their day protecting our families and our neighborhoods. Our city asks officers to step into harm’s way to protect us and our communities. We need to support them, work with them, and never forget their dedication to doing an incredibly dangerous job and doing it well. We can have a reasonable conversation about the need for police accountability reform, but the idea that a bunch of gang members would threaten violence against the men and women every Chicagoan relies on for their own safety is absolutely unacceptable.
* Speaking of the O’Neal police shooting case, 2nd City Cop, which has always been a vigorous defender of the police, took a look at the issue. They don’t think that charges will be filed against the cops, but there are some departmental policies that appear to have been violated…
First is the prohibition on chasing hot cars:
General Order 03-03-01
Section III - Prohibitions
Subsection C: The continuation of a motor vehicle pursuit is prohibited whenever
Item 2a: the most serious offense for which the pursued vehicle is wanted is […] a theft
And if you go to the Glossary, the definition of a Theft is as follows:
Theft - Any violation of any subsection of 625 ILCS 5/4, including Possession of a Stolen Motor Vehicle, or 720 ILCS 5/16.
We haven’t heard the complete audio tape, so we have no idea if the chase was terminated at any point, but the moment that it was determined the car was stolen, without some sort of extenuating circumstance, termination is a given, including self-termination by the officers. That item has been in effect for many years now.
However, there is a bigger order in play here. The Department’s Use of Force is deliberately written as a “preservation of life” policy and has been taught for years as being “more restrictive than state law.” The Department is going to hang one or both officers on the following violation:
General Order 03-02-02 - Deadly Force
Section III - Department Prohibitions for Use of Deadly Force
Use of firearms in the following way is prohibited:
(E) Firing at or into a moving vehicle when the vehicle is the only force being used against the sworn member or another person.
posted by Rich Miller
Tuesday, Aug 9, 16 @ 1:49 pm
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I don’t doubt that there might be some demented individuals out there who want to retaliate against the police, just look at Dallas in Baton Rouge. But, i’m a little skeptical of this report. Haven’t we been told consistently that there really aren’t any gang “leaders” anymore in Chicago and that gangs today are an undisciplined, loose confederation of people without any real centralize leadership? If that’s so, who are these guys coordinating the attacks?
Comment by Tommy Tuesday, Aug 9, 16 @ 2:05 pm
You think this is crazy?
Wait till you know who gets acquitted in the LaQuan McDonald case.
Comment by Doug Simpson Tuesday, Aug 9, 16 @ 2:10 pm
Wasn’t O’Neal shot running from the scene while resisting arrest for crashing into a police cruiser while involved in fleeing police on busy city streets?
Comment by Slippin' Jimmy Tuesday, Aug 9, 16 @ 2:10 pm
Good statement by the Mayor. Would be nice if others would echo those sentiments.
Comment by phocion Tuesday, Aug 9, 16 @ 2:13 pm
And the world wouldn’t be any better and cops wouldn’t be any safer if we could make it just a little bit more difficult for people to get their hands on military level hardware?
Yes, that is the sarcasm font you are seeing.
Comment by Aldyth Tuesday, Aug 9, 16 @ 2:13 pm
As a layman that last order surprises me a bit, I must admit. Wouldn’t have thought that if a suspect was trying to run an officer down with a vehicle that firing would not be permitted.
Comment by Ron Burgundy Tuesday, Aug 9, 16 @ 2:13 pm
OK - this is an honest question - I’m not trolling here. As a non-lawyer I’m just trying to understand this General Order which says “Section III - Department Prohibitions for Use of Deadly Force
Use of firearms in the following way is prohibited:
(E) Firing at or into a moving vehicle when the vehicle is the only force being used against the sworn member or another person.”
Think about the attach of people on the beach at Nice, France recently. Does this order mean that, if this had occurred in Chicago, police would not have been permitted to fire into the moving vehicle that was mowing people down? It was the “only force” being used.
Comment by Waldi Tuesday, Aug 9, 16 @ 2:14 pm
nobody’s right if everybody’s wrong.
O’Neal should not have been stealing a Jaguar.
BUT, he surely should not have been executed on the street by uniformed officers who decided that Dept policy didn’t apply to them or this.
I wish that the family of O’Neal would discuss why he was stealing the car. Lost moral compass? Grandma needed money for an operation? His children were hungry?
This needs to be talked about because that community is not facing the catalyst for this disaster.
Comment by cdog Tuesday, Aug 9, 16 @ 2:19 pm
In this case, the vehicle was driving away from them and they continued to fire with no regards for their colleagues or anyone else on that block.
Comment by CommonSense Tuesday, Aug 9, 16 @ 2:20 pm
This seems odd. Presumably, CPD knows who the “leaders” are for these gangs. Wouldn’t they round them up on a conspiracy (or suspicion of) charge, or for having automatic weapons? Heck, pick them up if nothing else to rattle their cages a bit? Instead they advise members to “limit interactions and visibility”? May be 100% accurate, but this story makes me reach for my tin-foil hat a little bit.
Comment by Lester Holt's Mustache Tuesday, Aug 9, 16 @ 2:21 pm
So O’Neal was not simply some unarmed black man minding his own business and targeted for being merely black?
Comment by Stating the obvious Tuesday, Aug 9, 16 @ 2:23 pm
parts of the city are getting crazy. the Belmont and Racine shooting was from a white kid dealing drugs, not some yuppie getting shot. deal drugs, lots of consequences. stealing a car too. nice to see that SecondCityCop is telling it like it is, cowboy cops help no one. the gangs are the problem, despite how some… including on this board…refuse to believe it.
Comment by Amalia Tuesday, Aug 9, 16 @ 2:27 pm
When I saw portions of the video I thought it unsafe to shoot at the fleeing car. Much less adrenaline, but I have held fire on deer when a missed shot was dangerous.
Once shots are fired, cops arriving on the scene have to assume the suspect is armed.
Comment by Last Bull Moose Tuesday, Aug 9, 16 @ 2:32 pm
Mr Angelo is 1000 percent correct in his statements.
Comment by Regular democrat Tuesday, Aug 9, 16 @ 2:32 pm
Been crazy for a long time. Glad people outside city are taking notice. The west and south sides are war zones.
Comment by Jackie Tuesday, Aug 9, 16 @ 2:43 pm
The comments by the family attorney were inflammatory he is out for a payday, that’s what lawyers do. It would be nice for the family to at least acknowledge the young man was not some innocent kid, but was actively engaging in a felony. The dept policies seem to have not been followed so their will be consequences I’m sure.
Comment by 51st ward Tuesday, Aug 9, 16 @ 2:45 pm
He was driving a stolen vehicle. Unless there’s evidence out there I am not aware of, we can’t really say he stole it.
Comment by Cheryl44 Tuesday, Aug 9, 16 @ 2:54 pm
Surprised we are hearing about the gang leaders meeting. That tells them somebody there is connected to the police.
Did they blow someone’s cover?
Comment by Last Bull Moose Tuesday, Aug 9, 16 @ 2:55 pm
What is this the 1850s in west Texas? Why don’t they name these gang leaders and their captains by name surely the CPD and others know who they are Put their names and pics in the papers on the internet. Let the people know who they are where they live… they have declared open season on Chicago Police what more do you need to round them up.
Comment by the Cardinal Tuesday, Aug 9, 16 @ 3:15 pm
Jeebus, you guys are brutal. When did it become a capitol offense to flee from the police? There have been several instances where officers open fire on a fleeing suspect without bothering to check if the suspect is indeed armed. I can understand firing on the guy if he’s driving the vehicle right at you, but firing on the guy when he’s out of the car and running away on foot?
Comment by Lester Holt's Mustache Tuesday, Aug 9, 16 @ 3:21 pm
Something wrong with *that community* when little kids get a hold of a gun and kill their brother, sister, parent, dog, babysitter.
What is wrong with the Moral Compass of *those people* that something that is considered very dangerous is not secured?
Comment by Doug Simpson Tuesday, Aug 9, 16 @ 3:23 pm
@Lester:
That type of police behavior certainly wouldnt be tolerated in Lake Forest or Hinsdale.
Comment by Doug Simpson Tuesday, Aug 9, 16 @ 3:25 pm
==That type of police behavior certainly wouldnt be tolerated in Lake Forest or Hinsdale==
I’m not sure whether or not certain actions can be deemed appropriate or not when it comes to different areas or communities. I certainly am not an expert on law enforcement and how department policy differentiates police actions in the city vs. the suburbs. I’m probably biased from years of tv where cops chase a guy down when he’s running on foot, and only open fire if the suspect has a weapon pointed at them.
Comment by Lester Holt's Mustache Tuesday, Aug 9, 16 @ 3:35 pm
So now the Republican nominee for President of the United States of America is telling gun owners to take action of Secretary of State Clinton is elected.
Think about that.
A Presidential nominee is saying this.
Paul Ryan, Republican Speaker of the House, Mitch McConnell Republican Senate Majority Leader, and Governor Bruce Rauner ENDORSE this man.
Who care’s about a few gang bangers in Chicago. Trump is inciting a war in this country.
Comment by Doug Simpson Tuesday, Aug 9, 16 @ 3:35 pm
Hyperbole much ?
Comment by DGD Tuesday, Aug 9, 16 @ 3:38 pm
== I’m probably biased from years of tv where cops chase a guy down when he’s running on foot, and only open fire if the suspect has a weapon pointed at them. == Older movies can be quite different. I am always amazed at the scene in It’s a Wonderful Life when George Bailey scares his “would have been” wife and Ernie the cop shoots at him when George runs away. Cops firing at fleeing people is not uncommon in old movies. I always wondered when the transition took place.
Comment by Hatless Tuesday, Aug 9, 16 @ 3:43 pm
I do care about the safety of our police officers, and I hate to come off as being hard on these guys who have a very tough and dangerous job to do - but at some point they have to recognize that these actions cost taxpayers millions upon millions of dollars in lawsuits. With body cameras, I imagine that number is only going to go up.
Comment by Lester Holt's Mustache Tuesday, Aug 9, 16 @ 3:43 pm
Lester holts stache. Maybe if the city fought some lawsuits the price would go down. Not that many years ago the city started taking cases to trial and was doing very well winning. The plantifs attorneys started complaining that they actually had to prove their case and win to get paid. They complained to the alderman who forced the city to start settling cases again. On a related note, these same attorneys are large campaign contributors to the alderman who demand the city settle these cases. Hmmmm. Almost like city alderman paid themselves.
Comment by 51st Ward Tuesday, Aug 9, 16 @ 3:50 pm
Could this meetin’ be construed as a conspiracy?
Comment by Dr X Tuesday, Aug 9, 16 @ 3:51 pm
I’m skeptical of the story. Looks like source was CPD, and they have a history of making stuff up.
One gang is really going to provide automatic weapons to two other gangs? I sincerely doubt it.
Comment by Robert the Bruce Tuesday, Aug 9, 16 @ 4:10 pm
The part of this story that strained my credibility was: ” The Four Corner Hustlers also are supplying the other two gangs with automatic weapon”
Did I miss something? Did somebody disarm the Vice Lords and Disciples? I always thought that they had plenty of automatic weapons.
Comment by Jimbo2 Tuesday, Aug 9, 16 @ 4:19 pm
I agree Jimbo. I’m no expert on gang relations but one gang handing guns out other gangs and just saying now you can only use these on those guys not us seems to display a marvelous amount of trust. Like other commenters, I’m not really buying this one
Comment by Anon Tuesday, Aug 9, 16 @ 4:32 pm
It seems to me that the gangs are definitely a problem, but ever since BLM started, some cops and many, many cop ’supporters’ have ratcheted up so much rhetoric and have been so strident in their efforts to justify any police involved shooting, that it seems like they are trying to foment war between the police and black communities. Seems to me that the police should rise above this garbage rhetoric, try to engage BLM, and work on addressing concerns, rather than getting into a war of words with them.
The war of words is escalating into a real war, and that is the worst outcome imaginable. And I think a lot of the so-called supporters of the police are an even bigger problem, especially since some of the more unhinged ones seem to want the police to declare war on black communities.
All this garbage needs to stop is what I’m saying. Trust between the CPD and black communities needs to be built, otherwise we’ll keep seeing this kind of garbage.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Aug 9, 16 @ 7:22 pm
I have a hard time buying the gang meeting. The BDs don’t have a major presence on the west side and the idea that the 4CHs are arming the Vice Lords is highly dubious. (The body count between the 4CH and the Mafia Insane Vice Lords on the west side over the years is off the charts.)
Comment by Anon Tuesday, Aug 9, 16 @ 7:32 pm
Nice attempt to deflect attention to Trump for the violence in Chicago. Remember the Windy City wouldn’t even allow him to hold a public event not too long ago. Who is inciting war in this country? Give me a break!
Comment by Lincoln LIker Tuesday, Aug 9, 16 @ 7:38 pm
===As a layman that last order surprises me a bit, I must admit. Wouldn’t have thought that if a suspect was trying to run an officer down with a vehicle that firing would not be permitted.===
Agree with Burgundy @ 2:13. So are u supposed to either outrun the vehicle or let it run u over?
Comment by justacitizen Tuesday, Aug 9, 16 @ 9:14 pm
Gangs are fully capable of carrying out direct attacks on the CPD. Officers James Severin and Anthony Rizzato died near Chicago and Larabee on July 17, 1970 in the Cabrini-Green housing project. They were on patrol as part of the police department’s “Walk & Talk” program they volunteered for, when shots rang out from a nearby high rise, and they were both killed. They were killed by gang members.
I will limit my comment to that.
Comment by Rod Wednesday, Aug 10, 16 @ 5:57 am
rhetoric matters. whether from those protesting who turn up the level way too high about police, to a presidential candidate who is astoundingly inflammatory. violent individuals get inspiration when they hear from sources that seem normal. and then they take action on their own. it is a dangerous time to be a police officer. the 1970 shooting still remains very much in the minds of Chicago police. words matter. take it down many notches, protesting people and Trump.
Comment by Amalia Wednesday, Aug 10, 16 @ 8:46 am
I think “allegedly” is the key term in this very dramatic turn of events. Where do they keep the minutes from these meetings? /s
Comment by NoGifts Wednesday, Aug 10, 16 @ 9:26 am