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* Notice that CTU doesn’t actually address the topic of a mandate…
According to CPS data, 82% of Chicago public school teachers have been vaccinated, well above the city average. Educators fought tooth and nail last winter for the opportunity to receive vaccinations, and for students and their families to be vaccinated. That fight continues. https://t.co/JdtEARQZ8C
— ChicagoTeachersUnion (@CTULocal1) August 3, 2021
* The Question: Should public employee unions in Illinois agree to mandatory vaccination for their members? Take the poll and then explain your answer in comments, please…
*** UPDATE *** AFSCME Council 31 Executive Director Roberta Lynch…
AFSCME encourages all union members to be vaccinated to protect themselves, their families, co-workers and communities. We have been working collaboratively with employers for months now to increase vaccination rates and the Delta variant is bringing renewed urgency to this effort. As employers seek to establish various forms of vaccination standards, AFSCME is prepared to address the impact on workers through the bargaining process to ensure that workers’ concerns are heard and addressed.
posted by Rich Miller
Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 10:02 am
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Voted no for the narrow reason that some individuals may be medically unable to receive the vaccine and should not be excluded from public employment if at all possible. The unions absolutely should encourage all members to get vaccinated and help them get access the shots.
Comment by Actual Red Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 10:06 am
The unions have expressed concern for the health and safety of their members during collective bargaining and proposed measures to protect the health and safety of their members. Additionally, they attempted to bargain for pandemic pay. If they were being genuine during negotiations, then they should work with Management for a mandatory vaccination plan, taking into account religious and health-related accommodations.
Comment by Hannibal Lecter Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 10:07 am
Yes, the unions should be advocating for mandatory vaccines for teachers and high schoolers. Lest we become Oklahoma (no relation).
Comment by Ok Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 10:07 am
=== Voted no for the narrow reason that some individuals may be medically unable to receive the vaccine and should not be excluded from public employment if at all possible. ===
There could be accommodations made for those medically unable to receive the vaccine. This should be the exception and not the rule. A mandatory vaccine policy would take into account these types of accommodations.
Comment by Hannibal Lecter Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 10:08 am
Around 10 am this morning breaking news stated that NYC mandates proof of vaccination in order to enter restaurants, movies, and other indoor venues.
Comment by dougIL Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 10:08 am
Yes, unless they have some legitimate medical excuse. This shouldn’t even be a discussion.
Comment by Anon E Moose Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 10:09 am
Voted yes, school is mandatory. Folks who work with the public, especially with children who can’t be vaccinated yet, cannot be carriers of this disease. Ditto for all other standard vaccines. Those who have valid medical issues can be exempt but must be tested every other day. Masks for everyone until Covid is tamed.
Comment by froganon Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 10:11 am
Voted yes - and am a member of an NEA local.
Comment by Cheap Seats Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 10:14 am
Voted yes, but I doubt that it will happen. How often does any union advocate for their members “having” to do anything.
It seems unions (understandably) advocate against mandatory things for their members
Comment by OneMan Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 10:14 am
Yes of course. Should include all employees and age-eligible members of employees’ households along with all age-eligible students and their households. It’s the best way to stop needless death and suffering from a preventable disease.
Comment by natty lite Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 10:19 am
What Hannibal Lecter said.
Comment by WillRez Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 10:22 am
Voted yes. I’m a member of AFSCME and I really wish the union could come out in support of the mandate. Of course there are some people for whom the vaccination would be physically dangerous, but even for them a greater percentage of vacc’ed fellow members would be protective.
Comment by bkhartbnjo Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 10:23 am
Voted yes (assuming exemptions for those with medical reasons). Unions have long advocated for workplace safety. (I am an IFT member and am active in union leadership and advocacy.). If we want schools and businesses to stay open and workers and students and customers to be safe, we need vaccinations to be the norm.
Comment by Pot calling kettle Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 10:23 am
Voted yes but mandate can include an option to get tested daily and show a negative response - I think you need such an alternative for bona fide religious objections plus I doubt many would inconvenience themselves for too long. For those who do, the negative test minimizes risk/spread somewhat.
Comment by lake county democrat Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 10:24 am
Absolutely.
Nuff said.
Comment by PublicServant Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 10:24 am
Taking the vaccine should not be a bargaining chip. Everyone (who can) must take it force society as a whole. It’s not that hard.
Comment by northside reformer Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 10:25 am
**for society as a whole.
PPS: it’s ridiculous to watch unions, most of whom are front line workers, refuse to back the mandate.
Comment by northside reformer Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 10:27 am
Voted yes, and I fully agree with Hannibal Lecter. (Now there’s a sentence I never thought I’d write.) Only true medical exemptions, not religious/personal convictions/etc. should be allowed in my opinion. Those “fuzzy” loopholes get exploited too much, sometimes by teachers in my own family.
Comment by Dysfunction Junction Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 10:29 am
I’m saying yes and only for those public employees who are expected to have contact with the public such as police or teachers.
Comment by Levois J Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 10:29 am
Yes. With the obvious exception for those very very few people unable to take the vaccine for medical reasons. Say this as a proud member of the CTU and also as someone who knows co-workers who at least as of last school year were unvaccinated.
Comment by Common Sense Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 10:30 am
public.
health.
Those who advocate for a certain group should be mindful of the benefits of their leadership on others’ well-being.
Comment by HopeFullCardsFan Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 10:30 am
Yes. if you really want us all to get back to normal, you want to be required to be vaccinated.
Comment by Amalia Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 10:31 am
@bkhartbnjo: AFSCME’s problem is, in part, they still have a ton of right-leaning members downstate who would kick and scream if they weighed in favorably on mandatory vaccination. Union membership is not monolithic.
I remember having a discussing with a union higher-up during the run up to a major election a few years ago, and remember him being so frustrated with trying to discuss labor issues with some of the offices downstate because he couldn’t get those union members there to understand that one party was specifically gunning to take down many of the benefits they had fought for.
Comment by Homebody Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 10:31 am
“Educators fought tooth and nail last winter for the opportunity to receive vaccinations,” That says it all for me. If you fight hard for something, get it and then say “Meh, no thanks”, you lose all credibility.
Comment by Skeptic Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 10:32 am
Just plain wrong to work in a setting where most people (talking about the students) are currently unable to get vaccinated without taking every possible precaution possible. Before Delta took hold I thought that us vaccinated educators should not have to be masked. Strongly believe that all educators should be mandated to be vaccinated and that all persons working with kids under the age of twelve be masked.
Comment by Common Sense Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 10:35 am
Yes. A vaccine mandate might have the unintended benefit of forcing a lot of ignorant and selfish people out of state government jobs. And it would be compliant with Rutan. There really is no downside to this.
Comment by 47th Ward Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 10:37 am
Weird sentence to type but I agree with Hannibal Lecter. Mandate but make exceptions only where medically necessary.
Comment by Commissar Gritty Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 10:38 am
Absolutely. And if 82% of CTU is vaccinated, than it sounds like they could get their membership to vote in favor of a mandate for the union.
Comment by Montrose Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 10:42 am
Of course not! Freedom for me, but not for thee.
Standard CTU talking point. Hehe.
Comment by RockfordRick Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 10:43 am
As a teacher, a former member of UPI-4100, and a parent, I want to know that those who teach our collective children are not endangering them.
Comment by H-W Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 10:46 am
Voted yes, no one has the right to jeopardize others. People’s “my body my choice”, is nonsense. My father and uncles were required to serve in WWII. The shot they risked was in the head from an enemy soldier. What happen to responsibility and the common good.
Comment by Banish Misfortune Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 10:48 am
Yes, with very narrow provisions when medically necessary. A mandate helps protect those people as well.
Comment by Swampy Corn Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 10:48 am
Yes, and agree with 47th Ward.
Set a deadline for mandatory COVID vaccinations (except for documented medical reasons) to perhaps Oct. 31st of this year. Require all state and public employees to be vaccinated or lose their jobs. And their pension promises.
Plus ban the agencies from filling vacancies caused by unvaccinated people getting the boot the rest of this fiscal year.
Comment by EssentialStateEmployeeFromChatham Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 10:49 am
I’m a public employee union member, voted ‘Yes,’ and am fully vaccinated. Our agency reopened its Chicago and Springfield offices at the end of June and in that time, 15 people have departed and 5 have self-reported contracting COVID, some while being fully vaccinated. While my position has always been field-based, I believe it was a mistake to reopen based upon an “Everybody’s doing it” policy position without a vaccination requirement, and a serious re-examination of WFH policies.
Comment by Keith Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 10:49 am
I voted no. I’d vote yes, but you definitely need an exception for people with a medical condition that prevents them from getting the vaccine. You might need an exception for people with an actual religious belief that prevents them from getting the vaccine. Otherwise yes though.
Comment by Three Dimensional Checkers Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 10:51 am
Yes, full stop. There’s growing evidence that mandates do drive vaccine uptake amongst the resistant and (especially) hesitant.
And good on NYC for requiring proof of vaccination for entry into indoor dining, gyms, and concerts. More like this please!
Comment by The Doc Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 10:52 am
Yes. The union’s job is to protect it’s members economic well-being, safety and ensure a reasonable workplace environment. As long as members with medically verified contraindications for the vaccine have an opt-out and others have sick benefits for those who experience minor side-effects, mandated vaccines are appropriate.
Conversely, the employer has the right to take action to ensure it’s mission is effectively accomplished then vaccination is an essential.
I find it hypocritical for the union to argue for measures to ensure their members health, yet fight an important tool to ensure health and the health of others.
Comment by Norseman Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 10:53 am
Voted yes. How many union members are vaccinated in the prison system? At the Veterans homes? Downstate school systems? All public sector areas?
This should be the norm for union leadership. They were all scrambling to have extra precautions, masks and essential PPE for their members now it’s time for them to step up.
Comment by Frank talks Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 10:55 am
Voted “Yes”. This is a no brainer.
=mandate can include an option to get tested daily and show a negative response - I think you need such an alternative for bona fide religious objections =
Easier said than done, especially daily. And would be incredibly expensive. The alternative is to find a private sector job.
Comment by JS Mill Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 10:55 am
So, the only downside is that anti-vaxxers get their fee-fees hurt and we lose some ignorant people working in the public sector? Sign me up.
Frankly, I’m for vaccine mandates for all employment and all public events. The state should do what NYC just did - restaurants, concerts etc. It’s well past time we accommodate the recalcitrant. There needs to be consequences for their insistence on continuing to spread a plague
Comment by Joe Bidenopolous Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 10:59 am
My wife is a CTU member and was vaccinated as soon as possible but was absolutely shocked by many of her colleagues in the Pilsen/Little Village area who refused. I voted Yes but I think the union should be able to negotiate a process with incredibly limited exceptions that then require onerous daily testing.
Comment by Chicago Blue Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 11:08 am
Yes. The union is there to protect it’s members and a 100% vaccinated workforce is protected
Comment by Crow04 Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 11:14 am
Absolutely voted yes.
One cannot smoke at work because of the ill effects to his fellow employees. How is this any different?
Comment by Drake Mallard Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 11:16 am
==One cannot smoke at work because of the ill effects to his fellow employees.==
They could still smoke outside the building in the designated smoking areas. Indoor designated smoking areas have been banned since the statewide indoor smoking ban went into effect in 2008 (although Springfield got ahead of the game in late 2006 with their indoor smoking ban–still seems like yesterday hearing all the outcry and fear from bar and restaurant owners about that ban).
Comment by EssentialStateEmployeeFromChatham Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 11:23 am
Voted yes. The recalcitrant 18% should have to explain their reluctance.
Comment by Jocko Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 11:23 am
Just like CTU, AFSCME had a statement ready to go that pats themselves on the back but doesn’t address the question.
Comment by NIU Grad Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 11:23 am
Yes, with the exception for those who are medically unable to receive the vaccine. We argued to get teachers access to the vaccine, and one of the main points was to make the schools safe for staff and students. To now argue against teachers getting the vaccine is a bit counter-productive.
Comment by Paul Coady Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 11:26 am
Mandate the vaccine unless you aren’t able to medically take the vaccine.
Comment by Glengarry Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 11:26 am
None of these union leaders are going to be nominated for a Profile in Courage Award.
After all, they’re politicians. They have to run for re-election every few years. As a result, they’re careful not to upset even a small portion of membership. In some unions, turnout in leadership elections is very low, so a vocal minority of disgruntled members can make re-election difficult on leadership. It would be nice if the leadership would do the right thing on vaccines, but I’m not holding my breath.
Comment by Roman Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 11:27 am
“Yes, unless they have some legitimate medical excuse. This shouldn’t even be a discussion”
+1
Comment by 32nd Ward Roscoe Village Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 11:29 am
As an IFT member, I vote yes. Protect your members and their families, as well as students.
Comment by anon2 Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 11:30 am
Absolutely - The state and federal government have both tried different incentives and benefits for people to get vaccinated, and it hasn’t worked. I’m tired of messing around and coddling the unvaccinated. The majority of Americans have done their part to end this pandemic, but we are not there because of this selfish minority. I’m exhausted and angry. Time to get tough.
Comment by SouthernCentrist Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 11:31 am
==bona fide religious objections==
I’m normally semi-ok with exceptions for religious objections (they usually come with the requirement to stay home in the event of an outbreak of whatever the vaccine prevents), but some people believe the COVID vaccine is the mark of the beast. Is that a bona fide religious objection?
Voted yes. I would support medical exceptions only.
Comment by Leslie K Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 11:33 am
I’ll say yes, but the mandate needs to be formally agreed upon by both the unions and the employers and should include protections and exceptions for staff unable to take the vaccine to ensure it’s properly enforced.
As of now, my district encourages all staff and students to be vaccinated, but will not mandate. Masks are mandated for all when school reopens next week.
Comment by Wensicia Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 11:42 am
Yes. However, I think the state, school boards, etc, should have been negotiating these conditions and impacts last year before the vaccine even existed. I think they have kicked this can too far down the road for there to be a meaningful resolution.
There must also be caveats for legitimate health issues.
Comment by Candy Dogood Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 11:47 am
Yes, but go further. Every employer should be mandating all employees be vaccinated absent a medically proven condition.
Comment by One hand //ing Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 12:01 pm
Yes, for a lot of the reasons already listed.
One of a union’s fundamental reasons for existence is workplace safety.
Comment by ChrisB Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 12:11 pm
Yes (with medical exemptions).
They’re teaching children. And frankly, I’m ready for more mandates. Nothing else is working.
Comment by S Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 12:36 pm
S is me
Comment by Sir Reel Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 12:36 pm
Voted yes. Vaccination is a health and safety requirement. If a construction trade union demanded to make hard hats optional for its members they’d be laughed out of town. Vax is the same thing.
Comment by northsider (the original) Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 12:54 pm
Liking what One hand//ing wrote. requirements from employers. also someone lift the veil on what medical conditions prevent vaccination. all I know about is cancer patients in active treatment that compromises their immune system and same situation with organ transplant recipients. just saying medical conditions makes it sound like there are lots. think not.
Comment by Amalia Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 1:23 pm
=== Weird sentence to type but I agree with Hannibal Lecter ===
Interesting to read so many people openly talking about how they disagree with me most of the time.
Comment by Hannibal Lecter Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 1:40 pm
Voted yes, with narrow exceptions for medical or a pre-existing religious belief. But also would hold employer liable if some medical problem occurs from the vaccine, like Guillain-Barre syndrome.
Comment by DuPage Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 1:53 pm
Amalia, I think the most common medical complication is allergy to one of the additives. Organ transplant patients can get the vaccine, but they usually don’t make sufficient antibodies as a response so it is not particularly helpful to them. Not dangerous, but not helpful.
Comment by cermak_rd Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 1:56 pm
Yes - But only when its’ been fully approved by the FDA. I do think that is an important distinction at this point (BTW - Fully vaccinated here along with my 13 year old) but a mandate on a emergency use here feels like a harder lift than it needs to be. So FDA approval is critical.
Comment by Cool Papa Bell Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 2:03 pm
==Interesting to read so many people openly talking about how they disagree with me most of the time. ==
Maybe if you invited us over to dinner, say with a side of Fava beans and a nice Chanti, we’d feel differently.
Comment by Dysfunction Junction Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 2:09 pm
yes they should take it unless medically unable and can prove that.
Reason is if they get it and are unvaxed they will certainly use their benefits package to cover days off and possible hospitalizations.
Comment by dupage dem Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 2:09 pm
=== Maybe if you invited us over to dinner, say with a side of Fava beans and a nice Chanti, we’d feel differently. ===
Thats a good one!
Comment by Hannibal Lecter Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 2:22 pm
Yes. Unions should be interested in protecting all union employees. As long as there are unvaccinated union employees, the vaccinated employees are still being put at risk.
Comment by Mocking Jay Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 2:37 pm
yes, yes and yes. what religion doesn’t want you to get a vaccine that will save your life or others potentially? maybe find a new one.
Comment by DMC Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 3:16 pm
Yes, with legitimate medical exemptions. Union members should have the right to be protected from other union members, management and unsafe work conditions. That was the basic premise of the original union movement, correct? And OSHA? And no smoking in the workplace?
If you don’t want to be vaccinated and have no medical reason not to be, then you are welcome to find other employment. Plenty of people hiring these days.
Comment by thoughts matter Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 3:17 pm
I voted yes but am sincerely wondering why this is even a debate… as though vaccine mandates were some novel policy that needed to be designed and vetted. Children at daycare centers have to provide a DHS form that documents their vaccine history. Students at all levels and of all ages (including college) have to provide a vaccination history to be admitted. Hospital workers also have to demonstrate their immunization history to be hired. These aren’t new ideas. Its simply adding the COVID-19 vaccine to the list of immunizations the vast majority of the general public already get.
Of course such a mandate would include exemptions for people with medical vulnerabilities or are opposed for religious purposes as there already are for all other vaccine requirements because you cant impose a mandate that infringes on someone’s civil liberties. That being said, the number of true anti-vaxers and people of faiths that oppose such medical interventions are so few, their not being vaccinated (for anything) has minimal impact on the rest of us. Just look at how few cases there are of chicken pox. measles, mumps, or whopping cough today since vaccines for these diseases became available.
Vaccines work! Mandates save lived and some sort of draconian law they are made out to be.
Comment by 773AmRam Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 3:31 pm
There should be vaccine mandates for all public spaces, just like NYC did today. No vax, stay home.
Comment by Get On With It Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 3:32 pm
Yes, but would be a heck of a lot easier if we had a decent national ‘vaccine passport’ system. Was in France at the beginning of July (glad I went when I did), and they’ve developed one. Clarence Page article in the Trib today was interesting. He found old news stories from the 1950’s, and the polio vaccine doubters were 31% when it came out. Thank God that menace was finally licked by vaccines. I still remember getting mine on a sugar cube.
Comment by park Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 3:53 pm
Yes to Vaccine Mandate. Everyone needs to be part of the solution, not part of the problem. If we want the Covid-19 pandemic to end, we must have vaccine mandates and mask mandates.
Comment by Enviro Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 4:59 pm
I noticed AFSCME isn’t touting how many members are actually vaccinated. Guessing it’s not as high as CTU?
Comment by Frank talks Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 5:21 pm
We will not get to herd immunity without mandates and/or restrictions on what the unvaccinated population can do. The longer we wait to reach that inevitable conclusion the worse the surge will be.
Comment by Pundent Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 7:43 pm
Union leadership should advocate for (not only accept) vaccination requirements, with the usual exemptions that apply for other required vaccines. On this issue especially, given the scientific evidence that vaccines are largely safe and effective, I would like to see that good arguments matter more than angering anti-vax union members. And I am a public union member.
Comment by Yooper in Diaspora Tuesday, Aug 3, 21 @ 9:39 pm