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[Note from Rich: This is another Kevin piece, so try to help with constructive criticism.]
* Since the Governor enlisted the help of SIU President Glenn Poshard and former Speaker Dennis Hastert to drum up support for a Capital Bill, many are clamoring about a possible light at the end of the tunnel:
We don’t want to jinx our chances for jobs and public works projects that improve life throughout Southern Illinois by predicting success, but recent developments in state government indicate an $11 billion capital improvement bill may be much more than a pipe dream.
While I would like to jump on the bandwagon, history usually leads to cynicism when dealing with a capital bill- especially when said proposal is funded on the back of a lottery lease plan that already failed once.
* Still green from student life in Champaign, I can attest to how badly the school needs infrastructure repairs. My classes were predominantly in the sweat box called Lincoln Hall, and I can remember numerous times that I’ve seen a courageous TA head up to the fourth floor with a broom to fend off the newest pigeon or bat that lost its way.
Additionally, I’m shocked by the work environment of the state’s highest officials. Moving from the Statehouse to Stratton makes you feel like you’ve been transported to the Battle of Britain. Who knows, with another water pipe bursting this might ring even truer?
When driving back home to the suburbs, I’m swerving from lane to lane so that I don’t hit a kiddie-pool sized pothole. Something needs to be done about the roads, bridges, and schools of this state. At this point, I really don’t care what that something is, as long as that something addresses the dire concerns of the state.
* With Illinois’ own son potentially at the top of the ticket in November there may be some room for legislators to do something bold. Senator Meeks has already sponsored a bill similar to last year’s SB 750 tax swap. This is no ordinary year.
What do you think the chances are that a Capital Bill will come to fruition this session? And if it does, what do you think it may look like?
posted by Kevin Fanning
Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 8:33 am
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The reason the lottery plan failed last time was because Madigan derailed it on the premise that it “sold an asset to pay operating costs”, and that there wasn’t a replacement revenue stream for the education funding lost.
Now, since none of the money would go to pay operating costs, and the education funding levels would continue as is…. Madigan will still kill it.
Comment by GoBearsss Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 8:37 am
But to answer the question in your post -
I think there are competing forces. Madigan wants a capital bill that doesn’t start for 3 years, and doesn’t give up future revenue sources.
Everybody else wants as big a capital program that we can get, and that starts as soon as possible.
The question is whether a significant number of people want Capital more than they want to piss off Madigan.
Comment by GoBearsss Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 8:39 am
IMO, the best capital program would be $10 billion or so (not $25 billion), only for repairs and rehabilitation (not new infrastructure), funded by a new revenue source (for example, a select service tax). Illinois lurches from one too big, overloaded capital program to the next (Build Illinois to Illinois First), with nothing in-between. Remember that the revenue source sold for Illinois First was a used car tax (which didn’t produce enough revenue). With nothing since Illinois First, the pent-up demand is high, but we can’t afford to mortgage the future on another big program, with another dubious revenue source. Do I think the Administration and General Assembly will pass a scaled-down capital program, with a reliable revenue source? No, they’ll either do nothing, or pass another Illinois First-like program, with projects for all.
Comment by Sir Reel Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 8:45 am
Since U of I gets the lions share of funding for higher education, take a look at the smaller schools and you’ll think you were in heaven at U of I. Eastern, NIU, WIU all are in need to a lot of capitol improvements.
Comment by So. Il citizen Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 8:49 am
Illinois is deep in debt; there will be no “large capital bill” until the debt issue is addressed!
Madigan doesn’t care if the program starts today or next year. When it comes to fiscal problems , Madigan’s primary concern is responsebilty and the abilty to meet the States needs!
Comment by MOON Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 8:54 am
Kevin, another fine post. Time for you to buy Rich a bottle of sunscreen for that long awaited vacation.
I think the personal story of dodging “kiddie pool sized potholes” was very good. Brings the story down to everyone’s experience instead of it being just something out there that the legislators need to take care of.
One thing that I would point out is your last comment about Obama potentially being at the top of the ticket and this being room for some boldness. Several years ago with Hastert as Speaker of the House and Durbin in high leadership, Illinois got a LOT more money for transportation. This has largely gone un-used because the State can’t get its act together. Even if the State did something bold at this point, there is not much room for Obama to do much more for us because we have a lot of catching up to do.
To your question, because everyone in the state can offer the same ancedotes as you have about potholes, I think there is pressure for the legislators to finally act. However, I am guessing that no-one will like the solution, and there is no magic bullet here, so we are probably in for a re-peat of “Overtime in Hell”.
Comment by Trafficmatt Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 8:54 am
It’s really a question of “can we get by with doing more with less” or not. Potholes can be avoided by swerving, and buckets can catch the drip from the leaky roof. If we as the public demand more than band-aids, we need to be willing to pay. We as the public also must be willing to make our elected officials accountable as to how big the program is and where and how the money is raised and spent.
The fact that there is no capital program indicates we, through our actions and of those we have elected, have been willing to settle for status quo so far.
Comment by Six Degrees of Separation Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 9:07 am
Oh, and here’s the constructive criticism: According to Webster’s, it’s “clamoring” instead of “clammoring”.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/clamoring
Comment by Six Degrees of Separation Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 9:11 am
I agree with Trafficmatt that Illinois is missing out on a lot of Federal match $$ (we can’t ante up our portion?), and Durbin has expressed his frustration on the matter.
Sir Reel mentions something in the $10B area, and used Illinois First as one example of overkill. But, wasn’t Illinois First a $6B project (at least initially)?
Comment by Anonymous Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 9:12 am
Six Degrees, we don’t need no stinking spell check…LOL
Comment by Anonymous Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 9:15 am
There will be a small one. Everyone needs to go back to the voters with something.
Regarding a bold move, I admire the optimism and hope you’re right. Can’t spot the willingness to cooperate in my crystal ball, though.
Comment by wordslinger Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 9:16 am
Signed into law in May 1999, the law created a $6.3 billion package for use in school and transportation projects. With various matching funds programs, Illinois FIRST provided $2.2 billion for schools, $4.1 billion for public transportation, another $4.1 billion for roads, and $1.6 billion for other projects.
Comment by Six Degrees of Separation Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 9:16 am
Deep in debt; infrastructure as Kevin described; pension systems ranked either at the bottom or next-to-bottom depending on which source of data; corrections unable to keep prisoners IN due to overcapacity, releasing them instead…. the things that IL govt is supposed to do, it is not. Instead our tax $$ go to stem cell research, baptist church [or school?] that burns, flu vaccines in violation of fed law; recreational sports complex in So IL and other feel-good Re-lect-the-Incompetents programs. Health care for everybody? Sure… after we fix all of the things that IL Govt is supposed to provide.
Time to go back to what is in the state constitution. After we master all of what’s there, we can go after the feel good nice things that generate press releases and headlines. We don’t need new taxes or any tax increases; reallocate what we spend and adjust IL priorities.
Comment by North of I-80 Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 9:25 am
$6.3B in 1999 dollars would be about $9-10B today, maybe more…..
Comment by Mr. Wizard Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 9:26 am
The lotery lease is a bad idea. It removes an extremely valuable State asset from play. We are robbing the future to pay for the present. We gain money short term today, but lose billions long term. Lottery Revenue keeps going up. Yet with this deal we fix the amount we will recieve from the lottery. There is no rela cost of living increase in the fixed amount, nor does it account for regualr growth. So future generations will be weofully scarmbling to replace lost reveunes. We will be getting a fixed 625K from the lottery in the future when it will be bringing in over 1000k (billion) costing us 400k a year or more.
More simply, its only a good idea to lease the lottery if you can make money on it. The only way to make money is for somone to pay less for it then it will bring in. So we are selling off future income to a prvt company to get quick cash upfront. We need to stop creating future fiscal holes and selling off assets to pay for today but creating greater problems for tomorrow.
We need real solutions today without selling/leasing State assets! Heck the Gov spent almost 1/3 of what the State brings in on the lottery to have his airplane interior madeover!!!
We need real solutions for State revenue that will be long term, not tied to sin taxes like gambling and cigarettes, and that does not invovle mortaging the future to get quick cash today. if it can’t be done by cutting back Bus trips, Airplane renovations, All Kids Flyers, 1 Million grants redirected to cronies, 1 million dollar ballparks, 40mill for unneeded new buildings etc (ie by getting rid of real waste) then we need to raise the income tax.
Comment by Ghost Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 9:40 am
The best way to bring the state out of recession, or to preempt the state from recession, is to invest in a capital bill that will generate hundreds of millions in revenue for years to come.
That is the most positive and constructive way to steer the state out of a recession, but whether our politics will undermine the program remains to be seen. Go capital bill!!
Comment by There He Goes Again Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 9:42 am
Suggestion for Kevin. Piece was good overall, but it was a tiny bit dry. You might want to work a bit with turning a comedic phrase here or there. The brittain and water pipe part did not quit get me there, but was a good attempt. I am not very good at it myself so can’t really give a good suggestion other then go back and read some of Rich’s older stuff.
Comment by Ghost Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 9:51 am
No capital bill will help IL. It will be a 100% waste of money. This governor has already decided to take money out of trucks and asphalt for IDOT to pay for 6 figure jobs for his cronies, some of which are even no show jobs. A 10 BIL capital bill will just be more of the same.
When a fox steals your chickens, you don’t just buy more chickens without finding a way to keep the fox out of the hen house.
If you are a legislator south of I80 and you vote for a capital bill while this governor is in office you are a ignorant moron.
Comment by the Patriot Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 10:01 am
Kevin - you are probably too young to know this, but it is cheaper to fix potholes then it is to prevent them from forming in the first place.
Ask anyone in government / the road construction industry.
Comment by Leroy Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 10:20 am
I agree with Sir Reel. This State does not need another massive tax increase capital program that uses half the revenue for inappropriate legislative gifts to local governments or social groups (Illinois First), but rather a true capital program for absolutely needed road bridges, and infrastructure improvements. Leasignthe lottery is NOT a good way to do it. Gambling expansion and a reasonable tax increase tied directly to capital spending is needed. However the boys and girls in Springfield will no doubt tie the capital spending to educational funding and social programs so no one will be able to agree to anything. Much as it is needed a good, sane,capital program this year is unlikely (IMHO)
Comment by downstate hack Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 10:22 am
Seems that all options need to be put on the table.
We need to recognize that like any large failing enterprise it needs to be reorganized from the ground up.
There is no magic here, just no backbone to do it.
- Cut overhead
- improve efficiencies/productivity
- find new revenue
This process is constantly applied to businesses with great success. Why don’t we follow these steps in that order.
As far as the lottery is concerned, what will replace the revenue lost to the leasing company? If it will be a new revenue source, then skip the lease and make the new revenue source the basis of the bonding authority.
Bad idea to lease lottery, bad idea to lease Midway….. great idea to lease Skyway.
Comment by plutocrat03 Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 10:26 am
We won’t get a capital bill without a significant tax increase this year. While I support the Meeks bill I would like it a lot better if extended sales tax to services which make up much of the state’s gross product.
An employer head tax for those who do not provide access to health insurance should also be passed along with an increase in the gas tax to pay for road repair. The state should not accrue anymore debt without new revenue streams to pay for it and by that I don’t mean more raids on the pension systems.
Illinois is a terribly low taxed state compared to its peers. It is time to pony up.
Comment by Bill Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 10:27 am
{With Illinois’ own son potentially at the top of the ticket in November there may be some room for legislators to do something bold. Senator Meeks has already sponsored a bill similar to last year’s SB 750 tax swap. This is no ordinary year.}
Obama; if nominated and elected is in for 4 years, while the entire Illinois House and 1/3 of the senate is up for re-election every 2 years, starting this November. If anything bold were to happen (which remains in great doubt for most pragmatic cynics) it is more likely to occur during the veto session than in a pre-election year budget environment that has already been politically poisoned from this past year, before they have even started anything in earnest for this year.
{At this point, I really don’t care what that something is, as long as that something addresses the dire concerns of the state}
I don’t want to cast stones individually or directly at Kevin, but allow me to paint with a broad brush for a minute at the risk of spilling just a little bit of paint on him. I’ll run the risk of painting with no drop cloth in order to make the point that I believe that this type of (I don’t care what we do, as long as we do something) thinking is emblamatic of the generational divide that is inherent in the sleeping “youth vote” that has recently awakened just to come out in support of Obama.
Virtually anything that is to be done here to rise revenue will impact the “youth vote” far less than the current higher income earners, property owners, an discretionary spending consumers, which is why to a greater extent the youth vote initially contends that “something must be done now”, because they will bear far less of the economic burden.
If the younger generation were paying closer attention however, they might come to appreciate the fact that something that addresses the “dire concerns of the state” at this point should really not come in the form of a Capital Bill, but rather first should be used to support the drastically under-funded public pension plans.
Before everyone goes flying off about state employees and their rich retirement benefits, I am not now, nor have I ever been a state employee or elected official entitled to benefit from these retirement plans. I do know how to read a financial statement and an actuarial report however, and the prospective future economic damage that these un-funded liabilities represents is a far greater hazard than any olympic sized pothole to be found anywhere in Illinois.
If the “youth vote” were engaged they might better understand the pig in the python that is going to choke off their future economic opportunity in Illinois in the not too distant future. Instead of looking at capital spending plans, the “youth vote” should be demanding that these under-funded public pension funds be addressed in much greater proportion as part of any new revenue scheme before too many potholes are patched with the proceeds.
The older “entitlement generation” has established these public pension plans and benefits, and I believe they are constitutionally protected and must be paid. What the “youth vote” has failed to realize thus far however is that unless these are addressed now, they and their children are going to be the one’s left paying for them when the pigeons come home to roost in the not too distant future, nd improved capital infrastructure will become irrelevant.
The rising tide of the age wave of retirements is going to begin crashing onto the rocks as the boomer generation will begin to retire en masse over the next 10-20 years. While the boomers are retiring, the post boomer reduction in birth rates will yield fewer younger workers contributing to the tax revenue base to pay for the benefits and the beneficiaries of these public retirement plans.
Much like the broader Social Security Trust Fund, public sector and state workers used to retire at 65 and die at 72 collecting not much more than 7 years of benefits, and there was a much greater proportion of contributing workers to beneficiaries that could shoulder the load. This doesn’t even contemplate the contributions absorbed from those that died before reaching age 65 and never received any significant retirement benefits at all.
Workers now are retiring at age 58, and living to age 88 and well beyond in much greater numbers, and the pension benefit stream for them can not be cut off due to lack of funding. The funds will come from the future income opportunity of the “youth voters and non-voters” of today.
Unless the “youth voters” begin to become engaged in the pension funding crisis of today; right now, and force the current workers and elected leaders to address the funding issue for those current and future benefits right now, there will be far greater concerns than potholes, aging academic sweat box buildings, or pigeons or bats that have lost their way there. There won’t be any funding at all available for the U of I, because any potential revenues will need to be diverted to the public pension plans to provide the benefits promised.
I say forget any Capital Plan for now and use any new revenue source to fund the public pension plans to an actuarial sound and responsible level right now. Any excess funds should only be diverted to make emergency repairs or improvements absolutely necessary to protect people and property. Any capital spending for new infrastructure should be deferred until the under-funded pension house is in order.
Once the pensions are funded to the appropriate levels, the improved credit rating and associated lower borrowing costs will allow for renewed investment in existing infrastructure and new investment in capital projects that would allow for future growth and expansion, and hopefully result in a better return on investment rather than more wasteful spending.
My suggestion for the “youth voter” today would be not to speed down the highway; swerving to avoid potholes like the Road Runner, thinking that these represent the anvil dropped by Wylie Coyote.
Instead; slow down and look carefully at the trees and recognize the forest that lies there as well. If they strain their eyes they might also recognize that just beyond the trees and the forst is the edge of a cliff represented by the public employee pesion plans, and our elected officials have defferred maintenance to the point that the guard rail that might have otherwise protected them has rusted away.
Comment by Baby Boomer-ang Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 10:39 am
Baby Boomer,
While I appreciate the insight of an omnipotent boomer I could do without the condescending diatribe against the so called ignorant “youth vote.” Seriously, way over the top.
I happened to agree with a lot of what you’re saying about the pension problem, but it was lost in your tone. Where in a perfect world you are right, this should be solved before implementing any new kind of revenue source to take care of infrastructure needs, however the pension problem is an issue so enmeshed with different factions of the state’s interests that it is going to take far longer to strike a sound compromise on the problem.
Meanwhile, you have immediate needs that aren’t being addressed- i.e. a crumbling infrastructure. I don’t want IL to end up like Minnesota, and have a major bridge collapse on it’s citizens. So what do you do in the mean time? Some would say the perfect baby-boomer solution would be nothing. Stall and pontificate and finger point.
It gets a little old hearing the “youth vote” consistently chastised as ignorant sheep, while my generation has come out in droves to put their money where their mouths are in the last primary. Additionally, my generation has seen a surge in something lost over the years, a return to public service. Ever heard of a thing called Teach for America or other programs that my generation has been signing up in waves for?
Comment by Kevin Fanning Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 11:02 am
I’ll add something to Bay Boomerang’s remarks. While I do not much favor a huge capitol program (They are in Illinois always outrageous, pork barrel boondoggles), I absolutely believe that Illinois must have a considerable overhaul of its tax structure (And an income tax increase) to meet the legitimate, existing obligations of state government. And, although I am retired, I think Illinois must tax pensions, somthing it does not now do. Why should I get a free ride at the expense of the kids who are trying to make a living in an increasingly difficult economy? Tax retirees like everyone else. If the state wants to give a break, let it be given to the proceeds from individual retirement accounts, deferred compensation programs, etc. in order to encourage savings.
Comment by Skirmisher Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 11:14 am
Why does Illinois choose to maintain their infrastructure with a barebones maintenance budget and these periodic capital plans that are always a huge burden to get negotiated and passed? Is there any reason to think that public buildings, roads and bridges are going to magically start lasting forever at some point in the future, thereby eliminating the need for capital spending plans?? Why not establish a capital budget that pours a consistent level of funding into these endeavors on a yearly basis? That way, you don’t have this huge cyclical fluctuation every few years, up and down, in jobs in the construction trades, IDOT workload in both design and construction, and engineering needs. You also don’t force a sitting governor to find a way to generate huge chunks of revenue, something that is never a politically favorable thing to have to do. Am I thinking too much like an engineer (logically) here??
Comment by BigDog Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 11:56 am
Kevin,
Good answer! The younger voters will be ones that make a real difference both nationally and (hopefully, someday) locally. As for the pension systems, they will be fine, assuming the state lives up to its ramp obligations in the future. Something that the boomer generation never did. Had they funded the systems appropriately for the last three decades they would be funded at over 100% today. There would actually be profit for the state to waste on more pork.
Comment by Bill Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 12:55 pm
I enjoyed the exchange between Kevin and the Boomer-ang, and certainly don’t want to get in the middle of it. The term “youth vote” is an over-worked term that’s been around since the 1930’s to describe 18 to 25-year-olds and their voting habits. Back then the motivating issues were largely related to joblessness, homelessness, education, and guaranteed income. Sound familiar? Today’s Boomers went through such a period the early 1960s that saw a renewed interest in encouraging young peoples’ progressive voting habits. When Students for a Democratic Society put out a global call to action for youth via the Port Huron Statement, millions of youth around the world reacted, etc.
At the risk of being taken to task, I think this is a generational difference of opinion. If I were to do labeling, I’d guess that Kevin is part of the “I want it now” generation (I think that’s what it’s called) versus the Boomer “all about me” generation. My take is that Boomer may be reacting to what he sees as Kevin’s putting too much emphasis on the current “now” that makes future “nows” more difficult to attain. Just my humble observation (ducking for cover now…).
Comment by Anonymous Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 12:57 pm
I too think that a structured plan for routine maintenance on road, building etc. is the best idea. The only problem is getting all the things past the need for so many emergency upkeep. Probably the one, five, ten year plans that some agencies are the first step in reaching any feasible goals.
Comment by alsatian Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 1:08 pm
I join with others in saying that a tax rrestructuring is long overdue in Illinois. Taxes are not evil - they are the way government gets what it needs for essential services, with the costs distributed across the general population.
That being said, there is a political problem with the current occupent of the Office of Governor. The one who promised Rev. Meeks a billion dollars a year increase in public school funding, if Meeks did not run against him in the last Democratic primary.
The solution rests in not giving this governor huge pools of funds to distribute, more than the now minor issue of the November elections. Elections are now so redistricting dominated that few seats are actually at risk for a tax vote. So how do you raise taxes but keep the governor away from the money?
Phase in implementation of the varous tax options, and for the early ones mandate that the revenues go only to pensions and public education.
For example: raise the income tax on individuals by a a full 1% or more, and earmark the additional revenues for education. Increase the corporate tax by the required constitutional balanced amount, and earmark those additional revenues for the pension systems.
Start taxing more services, as reflective of our 2008 society and economy, and phase in the tax over three years on various services, with the first year income from it going towards the bonds program for badly needed capital projects. Call the bonds program something like “the General Assembly Rebuilding Illinois Program” so that the credit goes where it belongs, even if the governor shows up for the ribbon cutting - which I doubt he will travel far beyond his house to do; nor should he dare to be around other state officials with oversized scissors or other sharp objects in their hands.
After the first year of revenue growth by some services being taxed, dedicate the second and third year to long over due rate restructuring of community based human services - providers who work for the State, but not politically.
For services beginning to be taxed in three years - let the projected added revenues go to the General Fund for wherever needed, including more money for education and higher education.
Let other state programs and operations grow from the natural growth of current tax level revenues.
Comment by Capitol View Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 1:09 pm
After last year, everyone is gun-shy and don’t want to show up again as voter’s targets.
Everything will be very quiet. If a capital bill can get passed without a whisper, it will happen. But it is unlikely. We have a governor who is not on the ballot with a penchant for attention and a tired Speaker of the House. We have a Senate Majority Leader running for Congress. No one wants to give Blagojevich reason to come out of his Ravenswood home and be Blagojevich.
This is the situation. If anything can get passed it will be under the radar and swept under the rug. So a capital bill will be on a long list of things to do that will probably not be done.
Comment by VanillaMan Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 2:29 pm
Although the State has been negligent in failing to fund its pension obligations the larger problem is the unrealistic benefit that has been promised. Why should public employees be entitled to paid retirement after as little as 20 years on the job at age 50? The State has created a financial obligation and deficit that is nearly impossible to fully fund at this point. Address the real problem; raise the retirement age to that of social security.
Raising taxes is always the answer whether its Cook County or Springfield. Why not address the problem and get there house in order just as the rest of us are forced to do with our own finances.
Comment by Dad Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 2:51 pm
Kevin: I’m younger than the boomers and older than your generation, so here is my observation from being in-between. I think your defensiveness about your stage in professional life is causing you to over-react a bit to Baby Boomer-ang’s post. I did the same sort of thing sometimes when I started out, so it’s normal. Also, pointing to youth signing up for paid public service doesn’t ultimately counter Baby’s point. However do-good the service might be, it diverts resources from other things, be it roads, pensions, etc. The point you make about immediate infrastructure needs is well taken, but Baby’s points are as well, as to shoring up what the elected officials have handled improperly. So, unhappily, those of us who work hard, employ people and pay a lot of taxes, will likely have to dig deeper. As you correctly point out, we unfortunately have every reason to be cynical about what the elected officials will do with that.
Comment by Late-thirtysomething Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 3:02 pm
Capt,
But Gov Elvis promised no tax increase, he would never lie.
Comment by fed up Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 3:10 pm
Dad-
Question: why is the IL Municipal Retirement Fund, with much the same benefits and retirement ages as the state’s, solvent, while the state systems are broke? Answer: IMRF is defined benefit just like the state, but operates pay-as-you-go. State skips payments whenever convenient for short-term interests, but IMRF does not. It’s not the plan or the retirement age, it’s how it’s implemented and managed. And a plan to take away or alter constitutionally mandated benefits for state workers is a non-starter, unless you are talking about future hires. And adjusting future hires’ pension plans will start paying dividends in, oh, about 30-35 years from now.
Comment by Six Degrees of Separation Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 3:27 pm
Kevin,
No personal offense intended; and hopefully none taken. The post had an over abundance of sarcasm that is sometimes difficult to discern from more sardonic wit designed to antagonize. I agree that perhaps it came off as “over the top”, but I was just trying to make the point that the Capital Plan on the part of the youth of today should be so much less of a priority than the unfunded pension liabilities which do nothing but grow over time.
Bill’s idea of counting on future funding responsibility would leave today’s youth in the untenable position of accepting the tried and true “don’t worry about it” and “trust me” mantra that has put you behind the 8 ball in the first place.
With regard to this instance; trust no one, and demand that the funding be accelrated and paid for now, or be left holding the bag in the future.
The biggest reason this situation has developed and been allowed to persist is that the “entitlement generation” of boomers along with seniors votes early and often, while the youth of today (and yesterday for that matter) votes sporadically, sparingly, and far too idealistically, and as a result has diminsihed power in terms of holding the elected officials accountable to their causes.
Comment by Baby Boomer-ang Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 3:41 pm
None taken, and the point is fair enough. I just thought it was tangential to pressing infrastructure needs. It’s definitely a problem that needs to be addressed, but like I said, may take a bit longer to work out than it will for a major bridge to collapse.
Comment by Kevin Fanning Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 3:47 pm
In the zeal to raise taxes, lets us also remove the state pension exemptions.
Too much money being lost there alone.
But as usual no response on how to cut the overhead costs. Cut down on the patronage phone in jobs, reduce the number of departments offering duplicate services.
What the state needs is a good venture cap management team to tear away at the deadwood.
If the state does not want to improve its efficiency, I say starve the beast until it is dead. Kick the deadwood to the curb and rebuild from the bottom up.
No taxes until there is spending reform. If it not clear that includes HB 750, varients and sucessors.
Comment by plutocrat03 Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 4:46 pm
Kevin and the rest.
As might be evidenced by my screen name, I’ve made a living in transportation. I’ve now changed careers, and so I don’t get a dime anymore whether a road gets built or not, so maybe I’m unbiased now.
Kevin - your concerns about failing infrastructure and the need to do something is very, very well put. Your references to the bridge collapse in Minnesota are point on. We do have a major problem with our infrastructure, it is crumbling, and we should consider ourselves fortunate that we have not had a similar problem that they had in Minnesota. Our public officials (IDOT, County, etc) for the most part do a great job with the resources that they have, so this is not a slam at all on them.
One of the posters did say that fixing potholes now than to really fix a road. While that is true in the short term (and I have been in the road industry), it is completely incorrect in the long term. spot patching potholes is a temporary solution only. Even when they are patched, the water seepage and the really destructive elements of the water and the freeze-thaw condition are still there. When you let roads get as bad as they are now, it becomes monumentally more expensive to fix that if there is a resurfacing job before it gets really bad.
The real kicker is how to pay for the problem. Our state is in a world of hurt financially. Some have talked about the pension problem, which really is a big problem. I remember listening to Steve Rauschenberger a number of years ago talking about this. I wish people would have had the foresight to vote him to the Governor’s Mansion. I think we could use a grown-up like Steve there instead of what we have.
These problems with the pension and the infrastructure are not going away very easy. I would personally like to first see us really look at the total government spending and try to make cuts. If, and only if, we can’t find areas to cut, then we look at other solutions. I’m not in favor at all in just selling state assets. Spend them today and then we don’t have anything for the future. Not exactly a good solution.
Kevin - you took some hits today. Don’t let it get you down. You’re doing fine.
Comment by Trafficmatt Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 5:06 pm
Six Degree, The IMRF as you mentioned is solvent, pay as you go, and funded by mandatory employee & employer contributions. One of the primary reasons that it is solvent however is that FULL retirement benefits can only be earned with at LEAST 35 years of service and ataining the age of 60. This means employees have contributed 4.5% of salary for 40 years, AND should they live to a normal age may be recieving benefits for roughly 20 years. This is in stark contrast to the State Teachers who can recieve full benefits in there 50’s after 20 years of service. I might add the average IMRF pension is less than $10,000 per year.
Comment by Dad Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 5:41 pm
No teachers do not receive full benefits after twenty years at age fifty. You have to be at least 60 to retire with twenty years, any less and you take a huge cut. At twenty years of service and age 60 my wife will draw 44 percent of her salary. She can draw no social security and only gets health insurance if she buys it. So Dad you need to to some research before shooting off you mouth!!
Comment by NIEVA Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 6:00 pm
Six degrees and Dad,
Isn’t ‘pay as you go’ the SSA way of handing today’s contributions to today’s recipients?
IMRF is prefunded. The investment program is doing the heavy lifting.
Comment by countryboy Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 6:19 pm
The problem with any capital bill (and also federal SAFETEA-LU bill) is that lawmakers earmark projects. Funding is provided for very specific projects (often at 5 - 10 of the project cost). The local agency and/or IDOT needs to use other revenue sources for projects that may otherwise never get built.
Any bill should increase formula funding to the highway agencies and forget about specific projects. The highway engineers will know how to allocate the funds to improve the state’s infrastructure.
Comment by Engineer Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 7:15 pm
Sir Reel. Do you ever check your facts? You are way wrong.
Comment by steve schnorf Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 8:35 pm
Trafficmatt,
I meant to ask this earlier but did not have time. If my age challenged memory is correct didn’t the investigation of the Minnesota bridge collapse indicate that the primary cause of the collapse apeared to be an error in design and an inadequacy in specified materials used within that design? If I remember correctly the dsign flaw seem to center on the steel gusset plates that connected girders, and it was determined that these plates were not sufficient to support the intended load of the bridge when it was originally designed and constructed.
If I remember correctly the absence of capital improvements and ongoing repairs to the I 35 bridge were not cited as a factor in the collapse.
Instead ongoing repair work on the bridge deck at the time of the collapse may have actually been a contributing factor to the structural failure, due to the added weight load of the maintenance equipment resting on the bridges inferior design.
I am not saying that age and its physical deterioration over time may not have contributed to the incident, but pointing to this incident solely in support of the need for capital improvements, while convenient in its sensationalism due the widespread media coverage of the death and destruction that occurred, may actually be a red herring based on the investigation and the facts determined to date.
Comment by Baby Boomer-ang Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 10:21 pm
Nieva not shooting off my mouth, just looking at what has transpired in my school district, but yes U erred it is 55 not 50. Many school districts like ours has promoted the Early Retirement Option, where a teacher 55 with 20 years of service can for a small price (11.5% for each year short of 60yr x last yrs salary) and the school district (for 23% x each year short of 60)retire with full benefits. So to do the math a teacher earning $100,000 (of which almost 30% do) who is 55 yrs of age, could take ERO and contribute approx. $55k, the school district contribute an additional $115k for the teacher to recieve $70k, adjusted each yr for inflation for what may be expected to be a 30 yr. life expectancy.
Sign me up I want this deal, what I don’t want is the obligation to fund its liability.
Now, I realize this is not the norm in most of the state, but it is the scam that is being placed on the TRS to alieviate the high salaries of many suburban school systems. Neither the pension plan nor the taxpayers can afford these 30+ year obligations.
I am all for a strong education system and paying a fair wage for teachers, but suburban Chicago has found a new level of craziness when the drivers ed. & PE teacher can make in excess of $150k.
Comment by Dad Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 11:41 pm
i believe the best thing for the state to do at this point, is to pass a gaming bill. in the horse business alone there are over 40,000 jobs at risk without it. talk about lost revenue. whether you like them or not, that is alot of spending from horse people every year. this state will be suffocated if it does not pass a gaming bill. iowa and indiana already have it. now kentucky is jumping on board. we need this bill to stay afloat and get the projects done that are long overdue. sooner the better. boogie
Comment by boogie Tuesday, Mar 11, 08 @ 6:35 am
Baby Boom,
Partially correct. The main reason for the collapse is suspected to be the design flaw that you mentioned. However, the bridge had been listed as structurally deficient for years and the calls to replace the bridge had been ignored. Additionally, inspections had found fatigue cracks on some of the cross members, but these repairs were put off as well.
Comment by Trafficmatt Tuesday, Mar 11, 08 @ 8:27 am