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* Moises Alou takes it back…
Any holdovers still blaming Steve Bartman should let the infamous Cubs fan off the hook, Moises Alou says.
The former Cubs left fielder, now with the Mets, said he wouldn’t have caught the now-infamous foul ball in the 2003 National League Championship Series that hit the heel of Bartman’s hand in the eighth inning of Game 6, prolonging an inning in which the Marlins later rallied for the lead.
“Everywhere I play, even now, people still yell, ‘Bartman! Bartman!’ I feel really bad,” Alou told the Associated Press. “You know what the funny thing is?” he added. “I wouldn’t have caught it anyway.”
* Mariotti reacts…
I’ve always maintained that Alou’s angry reaction to Bartman’s wretchedly ill-timed reach for the ball triggered the tragicomedy. If he simply had trotted back to his position in left field, the familiar air of dread wouldn’t have seeped into Wrigley Field with the Cubs a mere five outs from their first World Series since 1945. Maybe Gonzalez would have started an inning-ending double play instead of botching a groundball. Maybe Prior would have settled down and completed the mission instead of becoming unnerved, as he has suggested.
* And adds…
Monday at Wrigley, as his new statue was unveiled in a revamped plaza by the Clark Street entrance, Ernie Banks made a wonderful comment. He said it’s time to bring Bartman back to the ballpark and let him throw out a first pitch.
* The question: Are Cub fans big enough to follow Ernie Banks’ lead? Or are they so emotionally tied to being perennial losers that they’ll never forgive Bartman?
posted by Rich Miller
Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 6:29 am
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It probably isn’t fair for a Sox fan to answer this, but if they still haven’t gotten over the goat thing, is it even reasonable to think they might get over Bartman?
Comment by Leigh Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 6:44 am
Absolutely, more then time to let it go. The past is the past and the 2 game losing streak (5 if you count the 07 playoffs) needs to end today. Good luck Ryan Dempster. Bartman WWHHOO, Bartman WWHHOO
Comment by Dan S, a Voter & Cubs Fan Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 6:51 am
Disclaimer - Originally from another part of the country, so do not follow Cardinals, Cubs, or White Sox (or Brewers or Reds or Royals or Twins …).
Should Bartman be welcomed back to Wrigley? NO, NO, NO, A THOUSAND TIMES NO!!!!!!!
Real baseball fans know that when your team is in the field, and you are sitting in the first few rows, YOU NEVER REACH FOR A BALL - EVER! You do not want to interfere with your team, so you sit on your hands.
Bartman, like most of the other Wrigley denizens, is not a real baseball fan. Difficult to come up with an accurate description of Wrigely deniznes that is not profanity laced, but REAL baseball fans attend home games based upon the quality of the home team. For example, in the White Sox’s World Series season, based upon their recent history, even though they were in the playoffs, for their home game on the last day of the season the park was half empty.
Cub fans attend based upon the weather forecast and the availability of beer sales. If it is 75 degrees, sunny, and beer is being sold, the Cubs could put their Rookie League Team on the field - and there would be 35,000 people in the stands. Until that changes, the owner of the Cubs - whoever that might be - will not have to field a winner. And it won’t change if people like Bartman are honored and feted and let back into Wrigley.
Comment by Smitty Irving Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 7:10 am
If you look at the video again Alou was right there and his glove was right below the glove. Alou is giving Bartman a pass. Whenever you sit in the first row of seats at the ball park you have to know the potential of interfering with a ball that can be in play. This guy will never be able to let it down.
Comment by Danny Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 7:20 am
Hey, we forgave the stupid goat!
Comment by Louis G. Atsaves Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 7:34 am
Q: “are [Cubs fans] so emotionally tied to being perennial losers that they’ll never forgive Bartman?”
A: Just ask yourself, “What would a drunken fratboy do?” — and you will have your answer.
– SCAM
so-called “Austin Mayor”
http://austinmayor.blogspot.com
Comment by so-called "Austin Mayor" Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 8:01 am
As people get older, they many times become more statesmanlike.
I think Mr. Banks hit one out of the ballpark with that idea. Bartman has been made such a butt of jokes, and from everything I’ve read about him, he was/is a pretty good guy and a die-hard Cubs fan.
Probably time to let the guy off the hook. Kudos to Mr. Banks.
Comment by Trafficmatt Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 8:21 am
not really a cubs fan, but it’s hard for me to see how bartman is really a cubs fan, either. he did interfere with play, and in doing so, seemed to effect the moral and psychological equation of the cubs. doing what banks suggests means that the cubs don’t care about winning, in my mind…
Comment by bored now Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 8:22 am
lol anyone who thinks Bartman is the cause of the cubs many many mistakes, errors and failures is part of the combine
Let the man back. besides everyone knows the Bartman is a dance from the Simpsons.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 8:26 am
Cubs fan embrace losing, so no.
Comment by Ravenswood Right Winger Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 8:29 am
Is it just me or did the sportscasters even take an attitude after the first games that the Cubs were terrible this year and the Sox had a difficult day. I think that losing attitude is very much what the Cubs are about.
Comment by Leigh Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 8:35 am
He should get ront row seats and sing the stupid take me out to the ball game song. Too many of the fans don’t care too much about winning. If so, they could find many other things to blame than a fan trying to catch a ball…like the team who lost the game on the field, the manager, etc.
He should go to The Cell, the stadium is much nicer, but the team is not as good.
Comment by Wumpus Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 8:36 am
There is no such thing as forgiveness at the world’s largest gay bar.Bartman will always be a villian along with the “Cheesborger, cheesborger” guy and a few others. The century of futility is everybody’s fault but the players and owners.
What other ballpark in America would erect a statute in honor of a drunken radio broadcaster?
Now Ernie has one in honor of being the only player in baseball history to win the MVP award while playing for a last place team. Too bad it has mispellings on it.
Tear that dump down, statues and all, and move them to Hoffman Estates where they belong.
Comment by Bill Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 8:40 am
As Mariotti notes, there’s always been too much emphasis on Bartman. All kinds of things went wrong that inning; the botched double play ball was more important. Saying any professional player was unnerved by the Bartman episode is ridiculous. They’re paid the big bucks not get unnerved. Bartman has been made a scapegoat for a lot of other millionaires’ mistakes.
And there is a fine but significant line between expecting failure and embracing it, one that non-Cubs fans often miss. Someday the Cubs will win the World Series, and I guarantee, the reaction from Cubs Nation will not be disappointment.
Comment by ZC Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 8:48 am
I remember I had just moved back to Chicago for the second time when this happened. I have never been so ashamed of this city with the way this poor guy was treated. Give it up–let the guy get on with his life without worrying about this silly thing.
Comment by tom73 Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 8:48 am
To Bill
There is one other MVP who played on a last place team. Of course, it was Andre Dawson playing for the - wait for it -
the 1987 Cubs … .
Comment by Smitty Irving Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 8:51 am
“Cubs Nation”!??!
rofl
Comment by Bill Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 8:52 am
As a Cardinals fan, I have to say that Ernie Banks is the epitome of class. He was a great ballplayer and represents everything good about the game.
Comment by Cardinals Fan Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 9:10 am
Not only should he throw out the first pitch, he should get a one-game contract to play left field and then maybe get the chance to strike out at bat and drop a fly ball in the field. Oh, wait…they have professionals that do that. Nevermind.
Comment by What planet is he from again? Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 9:12 am
Bartman is a legendary figure. One momemt, he was having the time of his life, the next he was in mortal peril and cast out from the city. It’s time to kill the fatted goat and welcome the return of the prodigal.
And Bill, just because you never got lucky with any of the women at Wrigley Field doesn’t make them gay. There might be another reason.
Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 9:14 am
I have to agree with Leigh on this thing.
Wordslinger, I have met Bill, trust me if he hasn’t gotten lucky at Wrigley the only explanation is the gay thing.
Comment by OneMan Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 9:17 am
Rich? You just had to throw the “slight” in there, didn’t you? haha…
*Sigh!*
I don’t think its a matter of “will the Cubs bring back Steve Bartman to throw out the first pitch,” I think its a matter of would Bartman WANT to come back to Wrigley Field? Better question… Is he even in Chicago at this time?? haha!
I’m not so sure that he would if they did offer to… I think that is putting too much focus on something that Cub fans “remember” but have moved on from and chalked up as unfortunate timing in a slew of events that continue to spiral.
Say? Maybe Bartman can go to U.S. Cellular and throw out the first pitch there. Give Ozzie something to get fired up about.
Comment by The Rookie Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 9:17 am
Forget Bartman and Ernie, the outcry over the missing ‘ shows that everyone associated with the Cubs are a huge collection of Mopes.
Comment by Reddbyrd Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 9:19 am
Bartman wasn’t the main person reaching for that bal,l anyway. The fireman next to him, said that he was the biggest and tallest person that reached out and he was ignored.
I tell you, people that blame Bartman are nuts. (moo)
I am a 3rd gen. CUB fan.
Comment by Shelbyville Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 9:23 am
I am a Cub fan. I never forgave Bartman because I never felt it was his fault. Any Cub fan who really blames Bartman is an idiot, but I know there are a lot of them so that is why I avoid Wrigley and watch and listen to the games on TV and radio.
As far as you White Sox fans go, get off your high horses. Until 2005, the White Sox hadn’t won a Series since 1917. They now have won exactly one more than the loveable losers. One World Seris every 88 years doesn’t exactly make you all the New York Yankees for crying out loud. Get over your ivy envy and just enjoy your team.
Comment by Jaded Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 9:23 am
The things that’s always bothered me about the Bartman incident is that at least a dozen other people around him were also reaching into the field, too. His was the hand that just happened to touch the ball. And when it became apparent that this hurt the team, all of those people around him were the first ones to start hassling him to the point that he had to be removed.
Comment by grand old partisan Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 9:24 am
I don’t know if they (the media, the fans) will ever drop the whole Bartman thing. It is so stupid - I think it was the last straw for me as a Cub fan for over thirty years, who wept when the Padres beat the Cubs in ‘84. Since that whole fiasco, I simply stopped following the Cubs as closely, especially after the horrible end to the 2004 season, which to me was even worse than ‘03 or ‘84, because the team just flat out quit.
Comment by paddyrollingstone Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 9:24 am
Real baseball fans know that when your team is in the field, and you are sitting in the first few rows, YOU NEVER REACH FOR A BALL - EVER! You do not want to interfere with your team, so you sit on your hands.
HUH? What? - Bartman is the guy filling out the pitch form, and listening to the game broadcasted on the radio through his earphones, not the guy with shirt off and his back to the field drinking old style. What do you mean sit on your hands? Maybe he shouldn’t have tried to catch it, but I have sat in that exact seat, and no way could you see that Alou was going in for the ball (that he couldn’t have caught anyway). You are from another country, must be a soccer fan. YOu probably would have thrown him down on the field, or killed him in the stands.
As a former season ticket holder (bleachers), I say let him throw the first pitch. However, I never blamed Bartman, I’ve blamed Gonzalez since it happened.
Comment by Moderate Repub Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 9:27 am
I just love how instead of most post’s answering the question this has turned into a “Cubs Bashing”. Must be a large number of Sox & Cardinal fans here, now there is a group of low class fans.
Comment by Dan S, a Voter & Cubs Fan Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 9:28 am
As a Cardinals fan, I enjoyed watching that comedy of errors unfold. It wasn’t the Bartman’s fault, though. It’s the culture of loserdom that surrounds the Cubs franchise that is at fault.
Every MLB player knows it, and when a player goes to the North Side, it starts creeping into his mind. Then when something “bad” happens on the field a la Bartman, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy: Prior melts down, Gonzalez kicks the grounder, etc.
Oh, and Mariotti is a d-bag.
Comment by Anonymous Communist Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 9:33 am
@Dan S:
Oh, yeah… I forgot to answer the question.
I think that Bartman will be brought back once the team is sold and out from under the thumb of TribCo. Especially if it is Mark Cuban buying the team.
Comment by Anonymous Communist Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 9:45 am
Bartman may have helped to continue the Impossible Dream.
Few have given so many so much to hope for and look forward to.
A Dream is worth a lot.
If/when the Cubs win it all, the Dream will be gone.
Comment by True Observer Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 9:50 am
I don’t know of any Cubs fans who blame Bartman. I know there are still some idiots who do, but it’s a metro of 7,000,000, if just 1 in a 1,000 are asshole, Bartman’s got a real problem.
Saying that all Cubs fans are losers who won’t forgive Bartman is like saying all White Sox fans are shirtless felons from Alsip. Except that the former isn’t true.
If/when the Cubs win it all, the Dream will be gone.
This is why the Red Sox fan base swiftly imploded after 2004.
Comment by Some Guy Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 10:01 am
I hope it can happen. The problem is that Bartman is the true Cubs fan. A dorky little guy from the North Side with a turtle neck under his sweatshirt probably listening to Santo on the radio. Not real knowledgable about the game. First thought is to get the ball instead of get out of the way.
What Cubs fans need to realize is that when they hate on Bartman, they are really hating themselves.
Comment by Truth Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 10:09 am
As a lifelong Cubs fan, I agree it’s not Bartman’s fault. Sure, he should have backed off, but I was watching that game, and my heart didn’t really turn over in my chest until the botched DP. So, yes, bring him back. Even if it doesn’t break the curse, at least we’ll be classy losers, instead of boorish ones. As Mr. Banks has shown time and time again, classy is better.
Comment by Muskrat Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 10:12 am
I never understood why Dusty avoided any blame when he left his rookie pitcher out there without even as much as a quick mound visit to calm him down after seeing his veteran left fielder throw a hissy fit at a fan.
Comment by BigDog Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 10:14 am
As long as people fill Wrigley to watch a losing team, the owner, whoever it is, has no incentive to improve the team. As long as the Cubs lose, people should not go to the games. That way, the owner- whoever it is - will have to improve the product in order to get customers. So what I’m saying is that real fans who want to see the Cubs get better should not go to Wrigley. It’s called Tough Love and its pretty hard to do. But empty seats will eventually translate into a winning team.
Comment by Deep South Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 10:19 am
BigDog, Dusty might have been the worst Cubs manager ever for handling a pitching staff. The only worse manager I can remember was Jim Lefebre, who came over from the American League and constantly burned all his pitchers and position players before the 9th inning.
Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 10:19 am
Yes, lets kick the Cubs out of Wrigley and let an Independent League team play in the Friendly Confines. That way Wrigley fans can continue to go to Wrigley and get their fill of whatever Wrigley holds for them. Then the owner of the Cubs will have to build a new stadium somewhere…no public financing allowed. That way the owner, now in debt because of the cost of a new stadium and the purchase price of the Cubs , will have to field a good team to get people to attend the games. Its all about having to pay the bills. Its really the only scenario that makes sense…IF you want the Cubs to become a contender worthy of Major League Baseball.
Comment by Good point Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 10:29 am
I think it is wonderful that Rich has provided his forum for the Cub’s Fan Confessional. Now the question is “Will Rich offer absolution?”
Comment by A Citizen Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 10:42 am
As a diehard Cubs fan, I say let bygones be bygones. This poor guy got a bum rap from day one and as we often forget, sports are sports. Bartman’s received a raw deal because he has to live with this infamy even out of the ballpark. The organization owes him that much.
Comment by thegreatmags Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 10:48 am
I’m a huge cubs fan, and I’ve forgiven the guy. I mean, heck, isn’t it kind of instinct to go for a ball like that? It’s not his fault the team self-destructed. Noone ever talks about those two miserable games that followed that one…
Comment by K to the 3 Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 11:05 am
The Cub Faithful are a bunch of unlovable losers. I was with one such soul the other day and he kept ranting about the “psychological” damage that Bartman inflicted. He is adamant that his interference was the domino that caused the professional athletes (who really controlled the fates of the game), to screw up and lose that game and the seventh. Cub fans need to remember that Gonzales committed a ghastly error and then Prior lost his cool and the Cubs gagged like toddlers. It’s time to grow up and blame the athletes and not Bartman. Poor goof looks like he took the short bus to school anyway!
Comment by chiatty Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 11:13 am
Bartman should be allowed back in. I guess Cubs fans think Alex Gonzalez’ costly error had NOTHING to do with their demise. Or that the team as a whole allowed the Marlins and my man Josh Beckett to come back from a three games to one deficit to win the series. Nope, it’s ALL Bartman’s fault.
As a Red Sox fan, I think I can legitimately blame Grady Little and Pedro Martinez for the Game 7 loss in the 2003 ALCS. Pedro staying in too long cost the BoSox the game and the series. We din’t have a Bartman to hang our noose on. Instead, Grady Little got the axe - and deservedly so.
But Bartman was just one guy in a sea of people who were trying to grab the ball. And I Alou could have only caught that ball if he had Deion Sanders’ leaping ability.
Come on, Cubs fans.
Comment by Team Sleep Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 11:22 am
They blew up that Bartman ball, what else you want?
Comment by Crimefighter Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 12:09 pm
some many posts here from cub bashers; if you hate the cubs so much, why are you so emotionally attached and compelled to post? no way it was bartman’s fault and no true cub fan believes that. it just pre-empted a series of unfortunate incidents. someday the cubs will win it all - most sox fans will enojy the games from jail and any cardinal fan here today would have already died after the 3rd heart attack or from colon/prostate cancer. drive that short lil’ bus to wrigley and have bartman throw out the 1st pitch.
Comment by Bashers Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 2:39 pm
I can’t believe I’m agreeing with Marriotti but Gonzalez should thank Bartman every night before he goes to bed. Otherwise he would be in the same comapany as Leon Durham and Bill Buckner.
Comment by 2for2 Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 2:41 pm
===I never understood why Dusty avoided any blame when he left his rookie pitcher out there without even as much as a quick mound visit to calm him down after seeing his veteran left fielder throw a hissy fit at a fan.===
Exactly.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 2:55 pm
Let’s not forget that our lovable talking hairpiece of a governor even condemned Bartman the day after. That’s why the Cubs are losers. They have the biggest loser supporting them.
Thank god for Mayor Daley…he gets results, just look at the White Sox!
Comment by Jay Fairyotti Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 3:14 pm
i’ll give him a pardon, the first one went to the wrong guy
Comment by rod Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 4:17 pm
===As far as you White Sox fans go, get off your high horses. Until 2005, the White Sox hadn’t won a Series since 1917. ===
The difference is, we never reveled in losing. We never made it a part of our persona. Our team never used losing as a marketing gimmick.
Sox fans hate to lose. Cub fans believe losing makes them special.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Apr 3, 08 @ 7:12 pm