Latest Post | Last 10 Posts | Archives
Previous Post: Andrzejewski poll has Jim Ryan way out in front
Next Post: SUBSCRIBERS ONLY - Today’s edition of Capitol Fax
Posted in:
* I’ve avoided posting about Chicago School Board President Michael Scott’s apparent suicide because a very good friend of mine killed himself recently and it’s just been too painful to deal with this story.
I had talked to him less than a week before. Another friend had talked to him two days before. His mother talked to him the night before. Nobody saw any indication about what was going to happen. He was upbeat and, as always, in good spirits. He made breakfast for his children, sent them off to school, walked down to the basement and killed himself. Just like that. No note. No nothing. It’s probably the most shocking thing I’ve ever experienced in my entire life and I haven’t shared that fact publicly because it has been so incredibly painful.
I’m doing it now because of all the horribly uninformed things said and written about how Scott couldn’t possibly have killed himself, or wouldn’t have chosen that particular location, or would’ve left a note or whatever. Take it from me, it can all happen. Just like that.
I’m also writing about this because the Sun-Times’ Mark Brown has a very good, must-read column today on suicide. It’s not an act of the weak, it’s an act of the desperate, he writes. And as for that location…
Others have questioned why Scott would have chosen the forlorn location out back of the Mart Center, nine stories below the Sun-Times offices, to kill himself, as if this doesn’t make sense either.
“Why would somebody take pills and then jump in Lake Michigan?” counters Engle. “Why go to a hotel and jump off the 15th floor? Why would somebody jump in front of a train?”
Brown is absolutely spot on with his conclusion…
(S)uicide defies reason. It runs counter to our most basic instinct, that of self-preservation. It makes sense only to the victims through the distorted prism of their mental illness.
At some point, we might learn some additional detail about the circumstances of Scott’s life that would offer an explanation we can more easily accept for why he would have caused his own death.
It still won’t make any sense.
I gave the eulogy at my friend’s funeral and I went to great lengths to advise all who were present to stop asking themselves that most human of questions: “Why?” It’s in our very nature to ask that question, but we’ll never know why Brian killed himself. Ever.
* The Question: I know this may be very tough, and it may even be inappropriate for some of you or just too personal for others. I understand if you don’t want to answer the question or to even read the comments. That being said, have you ever experienced a suicide among your circle of friends and family?
posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 12:35 pm
Sorry, comments are closed at this time.
Previous Post: Andrzejewski poll has Jim Ryan way out in front
Next Post: SUBSCRIBERS ONLY - Today’s edition of Capitol Fax
WordPress Mobile Edition available at alexking.org.
powered by WordPress.
Also, please stick to the question. Thanks.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 12:37 pm
no, i have never experienced suicide in my family or circle of friends.
condolences to all who have.
Comment by Will County Woman Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 12:37 pm
the father of my closest friend (and next door neighbor) killed himself with a shotgun when we were ~9. our parents kept the truth from us (accident while cleaning his gun, we were told). but it certainly altered our lives, mostly in unseen ways. but we never knew why he did it — there was no known reason (this was circa the moon landing, when the space coast’s economy was very hot), no indicators, nothing that anyone could ever use to explain it (apparently, especially to kids)…
Comment by bored now Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 12:44 pm
Yes. A friend. It left us all extremely angry. He was reckless. He was impulsive. He was inmature. But we all loved him. Damn!
Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 12:46 pm
My cousin (a Junior at Memphis State University) shot himself in the woods behind his parents subdivision. It was a complete shock. There was no note but my cousin was an aspiring artist and a month or so before he killed himself he gave his mom and dad a painting of the clearing in teh woods where he ultimately shot himself. I was in 8th grade at the time. The pain and effects of suicide are far reaching.
Comment by Anon Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 12:48 pm
It is a very sad time for all effected. A college buddy killed himself soon after graduation. He was a fun loving life of the party guy. Our best guess was that he was having a terrible time adjusting to post college reality. I gave the eulogy. The whole experience sucked in so many ways. His terrific spirit was gone…forever, his family was (is) devastated, we friends were dazed. Now, my wife and I regularly tell our kids that we can work through any issue and please don’t ever take that permanent solution to a temporary problem. The mental health issues are very severe and often unnoticed. Our prayers go out to the Scott family and to Brian’s family.
Comment by sad Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 12:51 pm
A very good friend (close as brothers) from the Metro East. After I moved to Chicago, we would talk every couple of weeks. I didn’t here from him for a month. Finally found out a few months later that he had killed himself. He was depressed about work and becoming a father. Everytime I hear of someone committing suicide, I wish I had paid more attention to what he may have been alluding to. Not sure if I could have helped, but, I always wonder.
Comment by Levi voted for Judy Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 12:51 pm
I’m sorry for your loss and the guy in chicago. This can’t be an easy time for his family with the holidays coming up. You’re exactly right, it’s about making sure people feel there’s always a way forward. It’s stuff like that which makes a lot of the bantering we do come into perspective.
I have 3 people I’ve known commit suicide. Each time it was awful and probably for the same reasons you suggest.
Comment by shore Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 12:52 pm
Years ago a distant relative of mine was killed along with her fiance and their best friend in a murder-suicide situation. The best friend shot the other two, then shot himself as the police were closing in. He left a note saying the whole thing was the result of an argument that got out of hand after a night of drinking, and that he was sorry. These were all good young people (early 20s), no criminal records, all gainfully employed, no problems that anyone could see. My relative and her fiance were 6 months away from getting married; she already had her wedding dress, colors, etc. picked out.
To this day some members of the family cannot accept that this really was just a drunken argument followed by a suicide — it “couldn’t have happened” that way, the police/coroner must be covering something up, someone must have been “out to get them”, etc.
Obviously something like this really rips a survivor’s sense of trust apart, and they always wonder what “clues” they may have missed, or whether they can believe anything they are told.
Rich, my condolences to you and anyone else who has ever gone through this.
Comment by Secret Square Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 12:54 pm
Unfortunately, twice. Once a college friend (after we had been out for a year or two). In that instance, no one said they couldn’t believe she would do such a thing, but the sense of guilt among those who knew her but never included her in their “circle” was overwhelming and very sad. And a few years ago, the 20 year old daughter of a friend. In her case, everyone said the same thing - that they just couldn’t believe she would do something like that and that they had no idea she was unhappy or in pain. It is an excruciating thing to go through because everyone not only thinks there should be a rational explanation for an irrational act, but for those closest, there is also the almost unavoidable sense of survivor’s guilt. Suicide, I think, is the most devastating loss for those left behind, and when it is so public, the attention it receives is a double-edged sword.
My heart goes out to you in the loss of your friend.
Comment by cynically anonymous Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 12:55 pm
yes. When I was in Jr. College a small group of us use to hang out together. One of the guys was a couple years older and out of college. He was central figure of our group. One day on my way to class a friend grabbed my arm and told me he had committed suicide. I didn’t beleive it. I went to my lecture and sat for about an hour before realizing what it all meant and I got up and went to his parents house to find out what happened. He had been the guy who had brought us all together and with his death we all went our seperate ways. That was in 1992. Only a couple of us still keep in touch to this day. But a day doesn’t go by that I don’t think about him and the impact he has had on my life.
Comment by WOW Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 1:00 pm
Yes. In high school I had a friend who was a real loner. I think I was his only friend, and honestly we spent very little time together outside of class - I say it was a friendship because I don’t think he had any other, closer relationships that would count. Turns out he was gay and feeling extremely isolated by it. He hanged himself and left a note saying as much. It left me wishing I had worked harder to build a friendship with him, but with the benefit of hindsight, I did what I knew how to do. It’s still sad, though, he had a great sense of humor and I enjoyed the times we had.
Comment by Thomas Westgard Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 1:00 pm
Rich, I will post my real name here (you know my other one). I feel this is too important of a subject to hide behind a pseudonym.
I have dear friends who have lost a son via suicide. John Aaron Dimmick of West Frankfort, Illinois, was a vibrant soon-to-be 23 year old, from a family who are pillars of the community. They gave him everything he ever wanted and then some. They were doting Christian parents who did not just hand over money and keys to a car but were extremely active in this young man’s life. Better parents and younger sister he could not have had. I have a lump in my throat as I write this knowing the pain that I, myself, have gone through being a friend of the family. I cannot imagine waking up every morning to an empty seat at the table with the knowledge of not seeing this young man ever again until we all meet our Lord.
I cannot fathom what leads a person to suicide. There is no rhyme or reason as to where, when, how or why. It’s impossible for us to figure out because our loved ones are gone and not here to answer questions we desperately long to have answered. There will never be answers, only speculation. There certainly are lots of “what ifs” but prior to the actual occurrence, it’s difficult for us to see the torment in our loved ones and recognize how close we are to losing them. If we could figure that out and have that wonderful 20/20 hindsight, there would be no suicides. A desperate person hides the pain well and wants to accomplish the task, period. Depression and desperation are most insidious.
The only saving grace, if you want to call it that, is to now try to memoralize our loved one in the best possible way. Not necessarily to keep their name in the forefront but to do something that will help others not to choose this path.
West Frankfort is blessed with wonderful families, parents, business owners, students, and churches. They have begun an organization called “First Priority”. It is basically an extension of the home and falls back a little bit to Hillary Clinton’s “It Takes A Village” concept. (Please no political comments here.)
Given time, Mike’s friends and family will find a way to bring meaning to his life and less emphasis on his death. Rich, I know exactly how you feel and that sick feeling in the pit of your stomach is going to be there for a while. Even though we are at extreme ends of the State and I didn’t know him, I will pray for Mike’s family.
Comment by Marsha Miller (not your aunt) Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 1:02 pm
Rich, thank you for tackling a very difficult subject. I’m sorry for your loss, and appreciate your desire to shed some light on an important issue. My nephew jumped off a bridge in Cincinnati a few years ago. The incident was filmed by a police cruiser and the video leaked onto the Internet, making my nephew and his family the subject of ridicule from around the globe. In hindsight, it seemed that the kid had mental illness issues that challenged his family and others, but there were no clear signs of what the boy would do to end his life. Many people have mental illness but most do not take their own lives. Mark Brown’s column captures what our family felt: there was nothing rational about it, then or now.
Comment by Downtrodden Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 1:03 pm
yes, my cousin shot himself but we were sure that we knew why. he and his wife had been working on their car in their garage when a fire started and a couple of cans of gasoline exploded. she died, his hands and arms were injured and he didn’t want to live.
Comment by been there Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 1:06 pm
Condonlences on your friend Rich.
Three kids I knew while in HS committed suicide, one hung himself, one jumped in front of a truck, one jumped in front of a train. My brothers neighbor accross the street, whom he checked on found her in her garage, on the floor blown herself away. And most recently a neighbor’s kid hung himself.
No it does not make any sense, many at the wake and funerals (of all of the above) were all asking a lot of questions, well maybe this, and maybe that, and maybe if we knew we could have helped. No it leaves the ones left behind wondering why and if there was anything they could do to help.
Sudden deaths are always bad on the family/friends, and one’s in which the person takes their own life are worse.
Also we should mention Steve Neal here. Another Why? Another very talented person, and why?
Comment by Third Generation Chicago Native Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 1:06 pm
The worst for me was one of my brothers co-workers I saw him 2 nights before he did himself in by the way Steve Neal did. He was going through a messy divorce, and all I did was listen, I was floored when my brother said Mike sat in his car in the garage and gassed himself. I kept saying, dead, you mean, he’s dead.
Comment by Third Generation Chicago Native Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 1:08 pm
Yes, a fellow I worked with shot himself. In my view, what made the tragedy worse was the rumor mill that ran rampant afterwards. There was so much mis-information flying around (above and beyond the attempts to “rationalize” the *why*) that I had to completely discount all of it. It’s a lesson I’ve tried to pass on to my kids, “If a bit of news starts with the words ‘I heard that…’ be very careful about believing its truth.”
And likewise, my condolenses to Rich and everyone who has lost someone.
Comment by What planet is he from again? Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 1:10 pm
My friend’s brother committed suicide while we were in college. He used his Dad’s gun in his car out in front of his ex-girlfriend’s house. It was devastating.
It affected my friend so badly that he didn’t go take his exams, flunked out of college and has been paying for it the rest of his life. In this case, we didn’t realize how badly our friend was messed up and wish we would have known so we could help him deal with the tragedy. Get help if you need it, Rich. It’s a tough thing to have to deal with.
Comment by no good reason Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 1:10 pm
Not my immediate family but my next door neighbor’s son (who was 14) shot himself with his father’s service revolver while the parents were away one night. It was 20 years ago and I can still see in my mind’s eye everything from that night. I’ll never understand it and it will never go away.
Comment by Beerman Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 1:12 pm
A college friend, several years after graduation. She was brilliant, had traveled the world, and was passionate about social justice (except she wasn’t able to give up her Diet Coke habit during the boycott to get them to divest from South Africa in the 80s). She sought treatment and tried out different medications and didn’t find one that worked. I don’t think of her all the time, but she gets on my mind deeply once or twice a year, and I grieve over all the new and excellent medications and treatments available now that weren’t around then.
Comment by Earnest Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 1:12 pm
Several years ago at a service for a grade school girl’s basketball coach who had shot himself our priest said it best…We will never understand the demons the deceased faced. All we can do is unconditionally support the families going forward.
Comment by San Juan Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 1:19 pm
Rich, my thoughts are with you and the Scott family. I have had an uncle and 2 friends commit suicide. All were a result of drug & alcohol abuse. The feelings of uselessness and self pity are recipes for depression, and that in itself is a dangerious disease..
We as a society need to be gratefull for the good things in life. Unfortunately the media takes a different approach. How many times do you turn on the news and hear horrible stories ? Everyday !! I would like to see one of these news stations report positive news for a week and evaluate where their ratings are.. Garbage in Garbage out !! We need to be positive for the sake of ourself preservation, our family, friends, neighbors, city & country.. Only God knows..
Comment by Stallion Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 1:20 pm
I’m sorry for your loss, Rich. You’re in my prayers.
There have been two in my life. The first was a grieving father who committed suicide after his young son, who suffered from an inoperable brain tumor for a couple of years, died.
The other was an acquaintance who committed suicide after accidentally killing a friend on a hunting trip.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 1:23 pm
Rich, so very sorry for your loss. thanks for giving us this opportunity to process. it is much needed.
Yes, about 20 years ago, a close friend committed suicide. This friendship started in a class, blossomed when we decided independently to become part of a project, and turned into mad crazy fun when we roomed together for a while. I stayed close to her and others in our project, we met for dinner and lunch and reunions. We knew she had pain due to a physical condition, but she was most often happy in ways that surpassed the daily interactions of our group. When she died we were in total shock, but with some measure of understanding, although we never knew exactly what she was thinking, no note. I really miss her.
and now this, Michael, whom I have known for years through work. he was helpful and smiling and interesting, and his
death is a great loss. In the last few days I have heard not
only from friends, but people who did not know that I knew him
and who wanted to weigh in with stories they heard from friends
about his helpful nature. met more than a few people in
the last few days who also knew him and the immediate
reaction was the need for a hug.
It is a tragic loss, but you can never know exactly what goes on
in the mind. It is absolutely true that there can be no sign whatsoever before a suicide. It is difficult for us who survive,
it was clearly difficult for the person who died, and we can
only wish peace for them and constant love from all of us for others who live.
Comment by Amalia Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 1:28 pm
Sorry for your loss Rich, I lost my Father to suicide when I was 11 years old. I know the pain of those who are lft behind.
Comment by Dan S, a voter and Cubs Fan Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 1:29 pm
Many, too many. Three suicides out of 119 people in my hs class. An aunt.
Comment by Rayne of terror Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 1:30 pm
Rich - One of my daughters made a serious attempt at suicide when she was 14 years old by swallowing 83 sleeping pills. She left a note indicating that the reason was because her best girlfriend would not be attending the same high school she would be going to. She also requested that she not be cremated because she was always afraid of fire. She even planned it on a school holiday so nobody would notice if she slept late. After 5 complete blood transfusions she survived without residual damage, but it was the worst period of my life. She is alive and happy today and joins efforts to prevent teen suicide.
Comment by Gathersno Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 1:32 pm
A pair of years ago. About 5 months my after I packed up my Springfield apartment following my stint as an intern. I was back in Champaign, still helping out with Morning Shorts, when I learned that my best friend from home had shot himself. He was 23.
I hadn’t seen him in person for a month. He had made an impromptu visit to Champaign, but I had fought his urging to hit the town because I had work to do. It was a Thursday. I had to teach a class on Friday. I couldn’t afford to go the bar. That was it.
No moment in my life compares to the one where the group of six of us slid into the doors of the church carrying his casket. We had played in the yard across from that church since we were five years old. So many pick-up football games battled out under the church’s shadow. It was devastating to have it all end with our six pairs of stunned eyes carrying him past the pews.
He left a note. We know the catalyst. But it was such an unbelievably minor thing that it only made the tragedy seem more unbelievable.
All I can fairly comment on is how it affected me. And it did. Tremendously. It slowed my life down. I am in less a rush to make myself successful and in more a rush to enjoy the successes I have.
I figure that is all we can do.
Comment by Paul Richardson Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 1:35 pm
It is a futile effort to try to put yourself into the mindset of somebody that has taken their life. It is not an act done eagerly or gleefully, but one that is often seen as the last best option. Whether it is a terminally ill patient or simply somebody too tired to take on their battles any longer, suicide is undoubtedly not reserved for the mentally ill or weak.
Mark Brown’s column today was a very good one, but the answers underlying why people choose to end their lives likely outnumber the questions that friends and family may have about the issue. Oftentimes, the victims understand the pain that they will cause family and friends, that should tell you something about how great their despair must be in order to outweigh that knowledge.
Sometimes it is best to simply try to find empathy for what put them in that situation and understanding for how great their need was to be at peace.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 1:36 pm
My wife’s father committed suicide when she was 13. The after affects were ongoing to say the least. She as well as the rest of her family still have questions the biggest one is WHY? To this day my wife doesn’t believe it was suicide but a murder.
I feel bad for everyone that has to go through it.
Comment by He Makes Ryan Look Like a Saint Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 1:36 pm
No family members, thank God, but a half dozen friends. Two were rabid NRA members who never thought they might get depressed and resort to self destruction. One was the richest man in the county, whose wife found out about an affair and embarrassed him at a family gathering. One was a young man with a wife who was leaving him. All owned guns for various reasons and used them on themselves. That’s the story the NRA doesn’t like to tell. Most gun owners are much more likely to use it against another family member or themselves. Nearly 50% of all suicides are done on impulse, unfortunately, with a gun there is rarely time for a second thought.
Comment by Louis Howe Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 1:38 pm
A friend of my kids, teenager, attempted but miraculously was found by a parent before it was too late. He spent several months at the awesome Chicago Rehabilitation Center and is now back home, continuing to get better every day.
His recovery was a true testament to the power of prayer.
Rich, I’m so sorry about Brian. Talking with friends sometimes helps the heartbroken, and know that you have many friends right here for you.
Slightly o/t, but I wonder if part of the problem we have is the continuing stigma associated with mental illness in America. I think men in particular are reluctant to seek help, take medication, etc. for depression out of fear of being labeled “nuts” or weak. Just my 2 cents.
Comment by Arthur Andersen Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 1:38 pm
Yes. My grandfather was slowly dying from cancer when he shot himself. He was a badly disabled WWII vet (lost the use of one arm among other injuries). The pain inflicted by the Germans that cost him his arm was nothing compared to the pain inflicted by cigarettes. It is the main reason I hate smoking with such a passion.
Comment by OdysseusVL Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 1:41 pm
A good friend from college. More than 20 years ago and I still think I should have seen it coming, and been able to do something to prevent it. I took her presence, her spirit, her joy for granted - a sin of ommission for which I still try to atone.
Comment by 10th Indy Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 1:46 pm
Yes,
My wife’s best friend from high school killed herself about 5 years ago. I was the one who had to take the call about it from her friends family and who had to tell my wife about it. Hardest conversation of my life.
Later we had to meet with the officer from the Army (she was on a military post when it happened) who investigated the incident.
Spent some time on the why as well, still do from time to time.
Still have the unit coin her husband gave us before this happened after he got back from Iraq. Every time I see it I am reminded about how we need to do a better job providing care for dependents of service personel.
Your are right Rich, logic is not a resident of this in any way shape or form.
Comment by OneMan Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 1:47 pm
I have a cousin (not first cousin). He had a history of substance abuse. He killed himself with a drug overdose at a hotel on the way to see his girlfriend in the North Burbs.
Since he was starting in Illinois it seemed unusual for him to check into a hotel at 6 AM on the way to a destination that was not much further.
He left no suicide note.
My cousin was close to turning 40. He was dating a young woman (South Asian) who was early 20s.
At the service the deceased’s mother more or less said to the girlfriend, his other girlfriend’s kept him alive, why couldn’t you?
I felt really bad for my cousin’s girlfriend.
Comment by Drummer's Cousin Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 1:49 pm
OneMan,
You really have to differentiate between logic from the outside looking in and logic from the victim’s perspective. Those are two very different filters.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 1:50 pm
In the case of a very close friend it was a near miss. In what can only be described as a fluke intervention he was found in a car in a closed garage with the motor running. He was able to be stabilized and revived. At first he was angry that he had been thwarted but he was helped with therapy and drugs. He was diagnosed with severe depression which apparently caused an internal pain he had endured, but hidden for years. Now, after more than a decade he is moving through life, has a good job and caring family, is still on medication, and assures everyone he is OK. I hope he really is, because it is well known that people who try to kill themselves will often try again. For his friends and family it will always be kind of like walking on eggshells—not wanting to make too big a deal about it, but yet still needing to keep it on the radar screen and keep him talking about it.
Comment by Responsa Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 1:52 pm
When I was an RA in college, one of my hall residents committed suicide while away over the month long winter break. Needless to say, there we no signs during the fall semester, and the spring semester was difficult. While other halls were doing fun things with munchies, my hall was having social worker visits.
Comment by Niles Township Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 2:00 pm
At least two friends, both female, one with a gun the other alcohol/drugs. It has always scared me to try to go where they went in an effort to understand. Even in the darkest of days, it’s never been that dark - and I pray that it never will. God bless those who couldn’t see their way out and their families and friends. It is a tragedy, not a sign of weakness as some people have suggested lately.
Comment by babs Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 2:11 pm
The 15-year-old son of one of my best friends shot himself last Thursday. I knew the boy — and he was a boy, not yet a man — very well. He and my daughter were friends since they were toddlers. I saw him the day before his suicide, and he seemed his normal happy-go-lucky self. Needless to say, his parents are devastated. So are his friends, including my family and me.
Comment by The Mad Hatter Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 2:21 pm
No, but I have had many relatives and a few friends comtemplate it because they were suffering from clinical depression.
None of them were successful after a couple tried to kill themselves, but surviving an attempt by a loved one can fill you with guilt and pain none the less.
If anyone you know is verbalizing that they are considering killing themselves, immediately take them to the closest ER…they will get better if the proper medical care is offered and they give themselves time to heal.
Comment by Loop Lady Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 2:23 pm
My grandfather killed himself when my mom was in her teens. She was told it was a hunting accident until she was 29. This has had a dramatic effect on her perception of guns and violence. I was never allowed to have toy guns or anything of the sort. It has had a profound effect on her.
I’ve personally had to drive a friend to the hospital after we found she had badly cut herself and may have taken a large amount of pills. It was very intense.
Thanks for talking about this topic Rich.
Comment by Matt Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 2:28 pm
Yes, one family and one close friend.
Comment by Squideshi Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 2:33 pm
I’ve lost two friends to suicide.
My friend Steve Good last year committed suicide. It still hurts as we traveled together and worked on many projects beneficial to a very large population of real estate professionals. I miss his humor; his generosity; his ideas and ironically his positive outlook on life; the industry and and the future of Chicago. The day he died; I got a text congradulating me on the birth of my third daughter. No signs at all…
My best friend from high school committed suicide at home in 1988 - he had just made staff sgt. in the USMC and was doing well. I had seen him just the day before - no sign - no nothing. I miss him to this day.
Healing takes time and the wounds open easier than some suspect.
Comment by Taylor Street Brian Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 2:36 pm
A wonderful friend of mine took an overdose of prescription drugs and ended his life. He had been saving them up for months. When the police kicked in his door he was barely breathing. When he was put on the stretcher he went into cardiac arrest. By the time I got to the emergency room he had passed away. I got to go in and positively say it was him. I’m sure he thought he had a reason to kill himself. Not a reason a sane person would think made sense. I was angry at him for a long time. Did I miss a clue? Could I have stopped him? It took a number of years for me to realize the call from him the night before he did this was his way of saying goodbye. We talked of old times and laughed a lot. Now I accept the fact there was nothing he did that would have led me to believe he was going to kill himself. I think about my friend, and I miss him. Thanks for providing a forum for this Rich.
Comment by Belle Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 2:42 pm
My brother died by suicide in 1981. It changed everything. It also changed my life to walk in support of suicide prevention. I want you and other readers to know that something can be done. National Survivors of Suicide Day is Nov. 21. That’s Saturday! Please see: www.afsp.org/survivorday
Comment by Elizabeth Carvlin Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 2:50 pm
I have a sibling who has made multiple attempts. Every one of them has left a wound on my heart that never heals.
The sound of a phone ringing on a Sunday still makes my heart pound (the attempts usually happen on a weekend). My sibling’s ex and I have had to work out a code phrase for the start of our phone calls, so that the sound of our voice doesn’t strike panic in the other person.
Thank you Rich, for opening this topic up and thank you commentators, for sharing. I think many of us who know this pain keep quiet about it, never realizing that we are not alone.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 2:50 pm
a friend from high school, who had moved to colorado, took his life only a few days prior to christmas 11 years ago. his funeral was on decmeber 21st (he had died a few days earlier). just prior to taking his life, he shipped home a number of xmas gifts for his family. the way they found out was he never got off the plane at o’hare, and his brother-in-law…a colorado state trooper…ordered a well being check on his address
Comment by Downstate GOP Faithless Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 2:55 pm
A young relative a few months ago. Lovely smart kid, but no close friends. Everyone expressed shock, but not me. I had always worried. All the funeral attendants were family. Very sad.
At the risk of changing the topic, what do you do when you DO suspect a problem beforehand? I have another family member who I am very worried about, but I have no idea what to do. I’m worried that bringing up the subject with them would be reacted to with anger or denial and be counterproductive. But ignoring my concerns can’t be right. What should one do?
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 3:00 pm
Thankfully, no.
But my heart goes out to those of you who have.
And my thanks for having the courage to talk about it openly, which we all can hope will at best prevent another senseless loss, or at least provide some comfort to those who have also lost a loved one.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 3:01 pm
I’ve never experience a suicide by a friend or a family member. The closest to that may well be someone self-destructing before my eyes and eventually death from that. Mostly from risky behavior such as drinking or whatever. Other than that no knowledge of anyone killing themselves. Hopefully it’ll never happen. Can’t imagine the pain of those who have.
Comment by Levois Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 3:05 pm
The son of my wife’s next door neighbor committed suicide one night. I had just begun dating her a few months earlier. The young man in his late teens or early twenties had several minor brushes with the law for petty offenses. His father and step-mother left their house that night to go out to eat and to go to the movies. The son (who did not live there) came over after they were gone, let himself into their home, went down in their basement, and shot himself with a rifle. His dad was the gentlest and nicest guy you could ever hope to meet. Maybe drugs caused it? No one will ever know. I was next door visiting my wife when it happened. Neither of us heard the gun shot. The real irony of it: His father was a long time volunteer (always one night a week) who answered the phone for the National Suicide Prevention hotline. I found that so terribly ironic. His dad and step-mom came back from the movie and dinner that night to find his son’s car outside in their driveway and his body in the basement. I also have a son that age and what happened that night to a good man and father (and his troubled son) haunted me for months. I could never have gone back into the basement of that house if I had lived there. The father was a very religious man and I think that his faith was the only thing that helped him make it through the nightmare.
Comment by The Prophet Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 3:07 pm
I lost my brother-in-law to suicide about 8 years ago. Three weeks ago, I pulled the clothes he wore on his last day from a brown paper bag, folded them gently, and placed them in a silk pillowcase. His siblings added the clothes into his mother’s coffin, as was her wish upon her death.
We don’t talk about why; there’s no comfort in each other’s answers. But Mom had the hardest time with that question and her own answers made her angry. Now perhaps she knows. May she rest in peace.
Comment by KeepSmiling Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 3:08 pm
===At the risk of changing the topic, what do you do when you DO suspect a problem beforehand?===
Try starting here, and best of luck to you… http://www.afsp.org/
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 3:09 pm
My mother tried to kill herself when I was a young boy.
Thankfully, she is alive and we still have a wonderful relationship. We never talk about it –never have. Don’t want to. And I try never to think about it.
It is the symptom of a mental illness. Some people get in a situation and the idea just grabs hold of them because of the illness. The only thing I can do now is try and make sure I watch for it in those who I love. But it is not really something you can see.
This topic is taboo.
Part of the reason is that people believe it is very rare. The press never reports on suicides unless it is a famous person. It is a policy I actually agree with, because some studies have shown that heavy reporting of it can spur more suicides (especially in children who may be more likely to view it as an option).
We never know what our fellow human beings are really going through or how their minds are set up to cope with it.
I’m sorry for your loss Rich.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 3:16 pm
Yes,
My first exposure was in 7th grade. An 8th grade friend I’ll call J.P. committed suicide over breakup with a girl. There were more friends soon after who attempted, including myself (I am still ashamed to admit it).
Later in life a friend at church killed himself without warning. He left his wife and two small children. Suicide is so painful and difficult to process. Like some have said here, in most cases we are not allowed to talk about it. I remember the first time when I was in 7th grade - grown ups shooshing questions as if our questions would send us straight to hell. It was as if we were indecent for questioning. I think the adults just didn’t have answers to give us. I never had a thought of suicide until J.P. did what he did. For a while I became obsessed with it. At one point in my teens I thought I had no future, no hope. Rich, you were spot on. Suicide makes no sense. There are not always signs like people think.
I am so sorry for the pain all of you have endured due to suicide, for the grief and the anger and all of the collective whys. We will never have answers for some of our questions.
Comment by Say WHAT? Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 3:16 pm
Yes, Brian was a friend of mine as well. Additionally, a friend’s father took his own life. He had just had a stroke and the incapacatation of that was more than he could take. But even being deprived of normal physical strength, he was able to take his own life. He simply tied his bathrobe sash to the doorknob, tossed it over the door, tied it around his neck and slumped. I also had a friend who tried, with a gun, and missed. It left him without a jaw.
Personally, I have told my friends and family that that is how I am going to go out of this world. I don’t want to grow old and feeble. When I’m ready, I’ll have a big enough gun and I’m a good shot.
Comment by Dead Head Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 3:16 pm
Forgive me for posting this anonymously but given the personal nature I’m sure you understand.
I was suicidal as a teenager. Thought about it a lot. Tried a couple of different schemes for before finally deciding on a method I had heard about on the radio. I wrote a very well thought out and hurtful (to one of my parents) note. I planned. I prepared. And finally, I took a bottle of pills.
You’re right, it was an act of desperation. But it was also very logical (for me anyway). I saw my life was a mess and the trajectory of my life was going to be a mess. I didn’t see the point of continuing my life. So I took the pills, placed the note and went to bed.
I woke up around 430 with a hell of a stomach ache. I called a suicide hotline and was put on hold (no joke). Eventually a woman came on who gave me crap for changing my mind (very Dangerfield like, but again, no joke). If I had been a different person, I would have just let myself die.
Instead, I called 911. Asked them to come in and not wake my parents and went to the hospital. Basically at that point I decided I wanted to work through everything and survive.
At this point, I’m a successful individual with a very full life. I very much understand why people do this. What I have trouble understanding (and Rich I mean no disrespect at all to your late friend), is how people with young kids do it. But as you say, it’s desperation and desperation clouds our judgment.
Comment by Anon15 Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 3:20 pm
My family came from a small rural town about 60 miles south of Chicago near the Will County and Kankakee County border. In the small local cemetery next to my family’s burial plots is a gravestone that dates back to August of 1867. It is no longer standing upright due to the 142 years that have gone by but instead lies on it’s limestone back. Carved on the front of the old tombstone is the figure of a boy bent over at the waist holding a rifle with the barrel of the gun in his mouth. Sitting next to this boy is his dog. There is also what appears to be a jug carved in the tombstone next to the dog.
The tombstone reads: Enoch-son of James Ed & Charlotte Morris
Died–Aug. 9, 1867
Aged–19 yrs. 3 months
Then, below this is carved into the tombstone the following words & I quote:
“Beneath this stone the ashes lay,
Of him, that was my darling boy.
Alas,alas his race is run.
Caused by a double barreld gun.
Bereavments sure my heart will break
Show pity Lord for mercies sake.
O let me to thy will resign.
Those two unfortunate boys of mine.
Whitman & Co.
Morris, Ill.
Did this young man lose a brother in the Civil War and that is what led him to kill himself? The words were probably written by the anguished mother who appears to have lost two sons. Surprisingly, the boy’s father is buried next to him as well as his grandfather but there is no gravestone there with the boy’s mother’s name on it? There is probably a very interesting and sad tale there. I asked one of the small cemetery’s (Round Grove Cemetery) directors (age- over 80 years old) if he knew anything about the grave or the family who was buried there? I also asked local farmers if they knew anything about the grave or the family? No one knew. It would make for an excellent subject for that PBS television show called “History’s Detectives”.Rich’s comment about the “why” question when suicides occur reminded me of this soulful and very sad tombstone that I happened to find in the cemetery near my great-grandfather’s grave.
Comment by The Prophet Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 3:35 pm
I was nine years old when my best friend’s mother took her own life. There have been so many others through the years, I had to stop counting because I felt so sick. A fourth grader who hung himself. A middle-aged neighbor and her husband two years later. Parents of my children’s friends and classmates. My own classmates.
Sometimes there were warning signs, but most often not.
You can’t make yourself crazy trying to answer the question “Why?” The only person that answer means anything to is gone.
All that said, there is someone very close to me that is sending off warning flares on a near daily basis. I have begged and pleaded for him to seek professional help. He promises he will but never does. I feel so powerless. . . .and scared silly every time the phone rings.
Comment by HearMeRoar Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 3:40 pm
I was myself in a suicidal state about 16 months ago. All hope was gone, the emotional pain had evolved to numbness. Getting help is not easy.
Comment by grateful Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 3:41 pm
And did you get help?
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 3:44 pm
I lost a nephew to suicide a few years ago. It came as no surprise. His parents had counseled him, his minister had counseled him and professionals had counseled him. His parents followed him repeatedly out of fear he was going to do something. They were in a car behind him when he pulled over to the side of the road and shot himself. They tried to help him, but he just didn’t want helped. Many years ago when I living in Springfield, I needed help. None of my friends were there for me. Many people shun you if they think you are heading over the edge as if they’re afraid it might be contagious. I prepared to take my own life one night when my mother called me out of the blue. Knowing that somebody still loved me was enough to change the course of events for me that night. The same thing happened a few years later as I held a gun to my head ready to pull the trigger. I checked into a hotel room so there wouldn’t be any mess at my house to clean up. How thoughtful of me, eh? As if someone had whispered in her ear that she needed to call her son at that moment, she telephoned me on my cell phone. She always called my home phone before. It worked again. I couldn’t go through it after speaking to her. It’s sometimes the little things that make the difference. I once got a call from a guy I barely knew. I got to tell he was on the verge of suicide over the break-up with his girlfriend. I talked to him for over three hours as he shared intimate details of his life with me. I tried saying all the right things that would reassure him. When I hung up, I wasn’t so sure it helped. About a week later I ran into him and he stopped me to say thank you. He said he would have never made it through that night alive if I hadn’t taken the time to talk to him. I still have no clue why he called me. I haven’t seen him in years, but I know he’s married and has children.
Comment by former springfield resident Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 3:45 pm
Rich, Thank you this has been a great to do for a lot of us. You need to know your not alone others have the same problems as you and we just need to work things out and remember tomorrow is a new day and a new start
Comment by EmilD Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 3:50 pm
I came close a couple of times. Jobs go bad, nothing you do works right, no matter how hard you try it’s like there is a path you just find yourself walking that makes sense in a twisted way that just seems right at the time. Does not even matter how well life may actually be going. Keeping up the front is often the easy part. Smile, carry on, make choices and just do something. In your head you just see nothing but a negative twist to everything and no option for a positive outcome. And it just builds to an overwhelming level that does not leave. As an uncle from WWII said “The movie never stops and the channel changer is broken”. Explaining to people becomes difficult when everything around you somehow keeps pointing to the same conclusion of just leaving. When the big moment came I just remember a flash of “What the f@#$ are you doing!”. Kids, spouse, family. “What the f$#@ you doing?” has become kind of a mantra. I do not attempt to understand it, but in my head nothing, nothing will get me back there again because “What the F$#@…” works for me. There is always an option. May not like it but it always exists. Plan on being around a long time. Got stuff to do.
Comment by close Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 3:51 pm
I thought about it often during my teen years- usually over the break-up with a girl friend; and as an adult- going through two divorces was very stressful; I got help but still contemplated ending it all often. It takes the body so long to get adjusted on antidepressants that it is sometimes no help or simply too late!..and the side effects are not pleasant at all. Thank God I have such a loving family- I could not put them through such a trauma. Having said that, I have known several people and a relative who completed the deed. There’s never a good reason, but I understand their pain. Thanks for this opportunity Rich, its rare that anyone can express yourself like this.
Comment by Tunes Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 4:24 pm
My family member hung himself. No note, no warning signs, no nothing. Left behind two little boys he adored. I miss him.
Comment by Can't Say My Nickname Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 4:50 pm
Thanks, EmilD.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 5:09 pm
I had a girlfriend in High School, who’s father committed suicide. It was a horrifying thing - he burned himself alive inside the house. Suffice it to say, the horror of that event scarred my girlfriend.
A year later, after I went off to college, I got a letter from her, that was filled with depressing thoughts and the question, “I bet you’ve never thought of killing yourself”.
I was scared out of my wits. I knew who her pastor was and went to talk to him about it. He suggested that I talk to her about it. I was so glad that I did. We had a great talk, and she started talking more openly with her pastor and others about it.
Today she is happily married and has a couple of kids which are doing wonderful.
Rich - you asked the follow up question on what to do if you suspect someone is going to commit suicide - be there for them & be their friend. The world lacks too much of that. I think we also have to recognize those that have grown up seeing suicide, like my old girlfriend. Positive friendships help to let them know that committing suicide is not the only option for them.
Comment by trafficmatt Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 5:10 pm
Rich..my condolences to you and everyone else on the list. I found myself reading through tears as the sincere stories were shared. I thought of the moments when I have considered suicide and how thankful I am that intervention, medication and the better angels prevailed. The truth is that stated by several of the friends who have posted earlier–we still stigmatize mental illness. Having sought and received help, I have been denied some insurance. And, benefits under insurance for mental health is treated disparately from that of physical health. But, even elimination of the stigma still cannot replace the love and concern shown by everyone who has posted and read this blog. Suicide will happen just like cancer, auto accidents and lightening strikes, etc., but we can neither blame ourselves nor always expect to understand why. Thank you Rich.
Comment by Not my real name Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 5:14 pm
Unfortunately, I have seen it happen way too many times.
As a small child, my mom’s sister killed herself. She always had psychological problems so it was not completely unexpected. I don’t remember her but remember my mom’s sense of loss.
In the first few years out of high school, I can remember at least 3 classmates that I knew for years killed themselves. I never knew why.
A woman I worked with and knew fairly well killed herself. There were no signs before. I learned later that years before she had killed her husband to stop him from beating her.
A few years ago a friend who had cancer for most of his adult life, killed himself rather than go through another round of chemo. He had planned the perfect funeral. I always thought he was focused on cancer and death and found his beautiful funeral distasteful.
Last year my best friend from college years killed himself. He was a negative person and I had distance myself from him. While I felt bad and briefly played the “what if” game, I also realized that I had no blame in the matter and was mad at him for all the pain he caused. About a year later another friend committed suicide. He had tried several times in college and again I had distance myself to protect myself. In both cases it is still and odd feeling because I had limited interactions with them but ever so often I think of them and the fact that they killed themselves.
The nephew of a friend and the son of a co-worker killed themselves in the past year. I didn’t know them so their death didn’t touch me personally, but the pain they caused their family is so sad.
Comment by Objective Dem Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 5:14 pm
I wasn’t sure how this was going to work out, but it did. I couldn’t be more proud of this site’s commenters than I am today. Thanks.
But the topic has ensured that it’s been an emotional day for many of us. My best wishes to every one of you and my thanks for your thoughts and prayers.
I’m gonna take a nap.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 5:16 pm
As these amazing comments and Brown’s column make clear, next to impossible to understand suicide because there is no one kind of suicide.
Sometimes it is desperation, sometimes it is spite. Or an impulse. Or a cry for help that goes unheeded or gets out of control.
Chronically depressed people often injure themselves in minor or major ways because they have ceased to take care of themselves. I knew someone who took terrible risks while driving when she was on an emotional bender. It is likely that some car accident injuries and fatalities are actually caused by depression.
Listening to depressed people is so important. We need to add to the common phrase “how are you” one simple word: “really?” And we need to mean it.
Comment by Zora Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 5:17 pm
Unfortunately, i know of two other suicides. Both were children of friends. I know Michael, and join the chorus of I can’t beleive it…He would never do such a thing. I am full of the questions…what did I miss????? I have limited understanding of mental illness, know of two people that suffer from depression or anxiety attacks and will make sure that I say in touch, offer an ear or a helping hand. My prayers are with Michael’s and Brian’s families.
Comment by HydePark Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 5:57 pm
Rich, very cathartic and very illuminating. Everyone should be proud of their contributions. This puts a lot of other seemingly “important” things in proper perspective. I’m sure by mid-morning tomorrow people will be at each other’s throats but this was a great coming together. Well done all around.
Comment by And I Approved This Message Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 6:08 pm
Rich,
Thanks so much for sharing your feelings.
Let us all change the language of suicide to “died of suicide”. We need to understand that the act is not something done with full mental faculty. Depression is an illness just like cancer or any other disease.
I will remember your friend tonight at our Bereav ed Parents meeting.
Todd’s dad
Past President, Bereaved Parents of the USA
www.bereavedparentsusa.org
Comment by JIM DIXON Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 6:55 pm
Yes; two different extended family members (1 from each; paternal and maternal sides), and several family friends.
Suicide is only a symptom of the underlying disease (variations and gradations of mental health). The means and methods can vary greatly but the end result is always perceived to be the same; a “cure” as a way to end their own suffering.
Much of what I have observed indicates that one common thread is the victims inability to emotionally process some life experiences in a healthy way. One man/woman’s mountain is another’s mole hill.
As a result, they tend to internalize their challenges, fears and anxieties, and instead the majority of their emotional energy is spent masking the breadth and depth of their pain to others.
In addition, they struggle to open up and share their challenges with others as well, often times out of concern for not wanting to appear weak. Instead, their own strength is diminished while at the same time their safety net of support is weak, because to everyone else it appears as though they don’t need one, so one never gets sewn.
Another consistent characteristic to several of the victims I have known has been their extraordinary sense of caring for others. Their empathetic nature can cause them to absorb the pain of others they are trying to help and imposing it upon their own and onto themselves. The combination of these two things causes them to drain their energy forces (physical, intellectual, emotional and spiritual). So much of the energy force is spent on others that they neglect; and have nothing left to care for themselves, even if they knew how.
The answer for the survivors will never be rationalized, because you can never walk a mile in that other person’s shoes. The better approach is to retain the good memories and discard whatever bad there may be. Invest your energy in celbrating the victim’s life, rather than mourning their death, and re-comit yourself to those close to you, but do not forget to care for yourself as well.
Find a way to take some positive meaning from the life of the person that you have loved and lost, and process your own loss by investing your energy in something that they believed in, as a living memorial of the spirit they have left behind wihin you, and as a way to help you carry on without them.
Use this opportunity also though to pause and reflect; and recalibrate your values for today as well as your vision for tomorrow based on what really IS important in life, and setting aside those things that serve as distractions and otherwise just get in the way of re-ordering your priorities that may have gotten shuffled out of order.
Take time out to reach out to someone that you were once close to, but may have become disconnected from; and find a way to re-connect. Check in; check on, and check up with someone that you may have lost touch with, or allowed distance (physical or otherwise) to come between you; just to say hi, and let someone know that you are thinking about them, that you are concerned, and that you care.
Find a way to disolve petty differences that may have gotten between you and other good people, by casting your own sense of self pride to the wind, and simply apologizing and offering to make amends; unconditionally.
My words of advice; for what they are worth, is to remember not to become self absorbed with everything that is challenging you in your own world. Instead of constantly leaning on someone that is always there for you to talk to, and instead be perceptive, and reach out to someone else instead that could really use someone to listen. Let them know that you are there, even if they have not asked to be heard, and even if they may not perceive that they have anything to discuss that would be important to you anyways.
People won’t knock on a door that they perceive to be closed, but if you let them know the door is unlocked; even it appears not to be open, they may come walking in out of the darkness sometime to see you; when you may not even realize the sun has gone down.
My prayers are with you Rich; and all others that have been effected by this in the past, as well as those that might be so in the future.
Comment by Quinn T. Sential Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 7:05 pm
One of my childhood friends took his own life four years ago. He served in Iraq with the National Guard, had signs of PTSD but did not get the help he needed.
I participated in the Out of the Darkness Overnight walk for AFSP in 2006. Getting involved with that group has made it much easier for me to talk about it.
Rich, my thoughts are with you.
Comment by Tim Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 8:04 pm
Lost a good friend and co-worker in July 09. Steve was 49 and we shared the deer and turkey woods several times over the years and he was the most intense squirrel hunter you would ever meet. He could tell you how many he harvested each year and the trees they were in.
Steve faced a demon I hope no one I know ever has to face ……… depression. He began having back pains in January and convinced himself that he had a spinal legion and had 3 different MRI test done in the next 6 months. He was off work since Feb. 6 and I visited or called him every week. Whenever we talked he always said he had cancer and they missed it. Once this was ruled out he said his eyesight was failing so he must have a brain tumor. This was rulled out and he said his kidneys were shutting down. Again the doctors could find nothing wrong.
I asked him over and over if he was taking his meds and he always said yes. Steve was never married and lived with his parents. His dad was present during most of our conversations and I ask him point blank if he had seen or called his Pysc. DR and told him about these issues. They both told me they would and the medical DR had been in touch with them.
Steve loved his guns and owned about 2 dozen. He went to the gun range at least weekly to shoot his hand guns and I found out in April he had not gone shooting since before Thanklsgiving. He also had a Corvette and a Dodge Charger that were amoung his most prized toys and they were always waxed and polished. When I saw them covered in dirt and bird droppings I told Steve I thought he was depressed becasue he was withdrawn and lost interest in everything he enjoyed. Repeatedly they told me they would get into the Dr and see about his depression meds.
Finally on July 14th at 4 pm I received a call that he had taken his life that morning. His 75 yr old parents are devastated. I keep wondering what I could have done any different and wish I had driven him to the hospital and had the security guards take him in for an evaluation. I recognized the classic symptoms of depression but could not convince my friend to seek help. Now we are left to ask what if.
Comment by State Worker W/ an MBA Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 8:15 pm
A cousin and two friends. They still leave wondering. Marsha Miller, not a relative, bless you. I have really gained from the posts here. I wish we could take these feelings to another place and put a side some of the rancor we read.
My best wishes to all of you(us)
Comment by Ill_will Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 8:55 pm
Two, my grandmother and my uncle. I think part of the reason my uncle killed himself, other than alcoholism, is that he took it upon himself to keep the secret from his sisters that their mom had taken her own life.
BTW if you have adolescent kids, or work with young people, check out Erika’s Lighthouse at http://www.erikaslighthouse.org/. They do great work in the areas of adolescent depression and suicide. They came to my son’s middle school and and made a presentation to parents. They also have teen panels that come and talk to students.
Comment by Boyd of the lakes Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 10:53 pm
Rich, congrats on making it though this thread. I know it was a difficult decision to even make the post. Brian would be proud of you, I know I am.
Comment by Doug Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 11:10 pm
Rich, I have to add my appreciation for this post - send my condolences, and say that my niece committed suicide at sixteen. Shocking, most painful time for our family.
I also need to add that I think your blog gets better and better, as you let it become so much more human.
Don’t stop - it is good for our souls.
Comment by appreciate you Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 11:19 pm
Wow. Never thought there would be so many stories like these from people on this site. Since I was busy all day, reading them back to back makes it even more emotional. It shows that suicide is a problem that touches a lot more people than I ever thought. I have known some former classmates and kids from the neighborhood who committed suicide and had a cousin where there is question of whether it was suicide or murder. It’s never easy finding out about some one’s death, no matter how it happens. But that added question of “why” makes suicide different to deal with.
The Chicago Trib just had an article about someone who jumped off a building downtown. It talked about the effects it had on those who witnessed it. People who didn’t even know the deceased and the impact on their own lives. The most alarming part of the story was when they said there were 26 so far that year in Chicago off high places. There were no news stories about this particular suicide which was also surprising. But after reading what was said above about how it may trigger even more, maybe that makes sense.
I don’t know if I should say sorry or thank you for all the very emotional and thought provoking stories from all who posted here. I guess both, even though it seems contradictory.
The best thing we can all get out of this thread is to learn that there are warning signs and there is the potential to help.
Comment by Been There Wednesday, Nov 18, 09 @ 11:47 pm
It has taken me awhile to comment (even though I never do), but now wanted to. It has been over twenty years. I’m angry–that’s where I landed—so I can kick his ass when we meet again–perhaps in 2012?
I’m not actively angry..haven’t been for a long time. I just am when I think of this…and until the last couple of days, I haven’t in awhile. I still love him, but I will kick his ass the next time I see him. It is acombination of the love and ass-kicking that keeps me smiling, if that makes sense.
Comment by RitaB Thursday, Nov 19, 09 @ 2:46 am
Condolences,Rich. How very sad. But how great that you turned this into a very compassionate blog thread. You are proof that news and that blogs can be good not just negative. Thank you.
Yes I know of three suicides…a co-worker, friend’s son, and a friend.
Comment by Really? Thursday, Nov 19, 09 @ 6:39 am
I am truly in awe - if that is the right word - of the sharing that has occurred on here in response to this question. No one close to me has died from suicide. My heart goes out to everyone that continues to work through the range of emotions that accompany such a loss.
Rich, thanks for initiating this conversation. You have fostered a very special community here.
Comment by Montrose Thursday, Nov 19, 09 @ 8:16 am
One final thought, not personally related but perhaps helpful.
Doris Kearns Goodwin, in her memoir “Wait Til Next Year” (a title that refers to the Brooklyn Dodgers but which Cub fans can certainly identify with
) recounts how her father was orphaned at a young age… his mother and sister died of illness and his father had shortly afterward died of a “broken heart.”
When Doris was in her teens, she was going through old family papers in the attic and found her grandfather’s death certificate, which clearly stated that he had committed suicide. She confronted her father about this and asked why she wasn’t told the truth. Her father said he had intended to eventually, but that it was still accurate to say he had died from his heartbreak over losing his wife and daughter.
Although it sounds quaint to say that someone died of a broken heart, maybe that really is true of most if not all persons who commit suicide. Their hearts may have been broken over things we do not know about or will never understand.
Thanks again, Rich, for sharing this, and know that our prayers and thoughts are with you and your friend.
Comment by Secret Square Thursday, Nov 19, 09 @ 9:03 am
I have known of a handful of suicides throughout my life. A recent one, the inlaw of a cousin, suffered from life-long (and treated) chronic depression and mental illness — when that person literally walked off a cliff to death, no one was surprised.
However, I think another element, which may be unconnected to diagnosable mental illness, can be an important, even determining factor: that is despair. I believe that you can be in good general mental health and still suffer from suicide-inducing despair.
I knew a guy in high school who was extremely funny and highly social. He was extremely bright with good grades and clearly qualified for admission to a good college. However, his family did not have the money for college and he could not get a scholarship. His solution was to get a high paying blue collar job through family connections and save up money for a year to go to college. Unfortunately, one year turned to two, and he began drinking too much. One day after work, he went to his mother’s house and blew his brains out in her basement. This tragedy has moved me deeply for years.
I am convinced that despair - the sense that despite his dreams he was ensnared in an unwanted life predicament - was as strong a motivating factor in his suicide as anything else.
Comment by Conservative Republican Thursday, Nov 19, 09 @ 11:56 am
My sincere condolences. I did not see this until this morning and have found it incredibly emotional, painful, but more importantly extremely helpful. My experience includes my father who committed suicide and my brother. While my father did so in his 80’s it is still hard to accept. My brother was in his 40’s and had been under care and taking medication. Why both happened is still, after many years not clear, it is too easy to think about what could have been done, changed, or observed. Yes, the common reaction is to insist that it had to be murder and not accept what happened. The impact on other family does not go away. Thank you to all have shared their experiences.
Comment by Zorba Thursday, Nov 19, 09 @ 1:27 pm
Thanks for allowing people to speak from their hearts on this subject. It is an especially cruel way to lose a friend.
I wish the ministers that are claiming a murder conspiracy in Mr. Scott’s case would, instead, find ways to bring the community together to (a) recognize the sometimes very subtle signs and (b)fund hotlines and a give a lifeline to those in despair, instead of ratcheting up these unproductive conspiracy theories.
Suicide leaves behind many more victims than just its first one. Thoughts and prayers to all.
Comment by pjw1 Thursday, Nov 19, 09 @ 3:10 pm