66 Comments - 47th Ward - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 11:05 am: ===Fort Myers, Florida is first=== About 10,000 baby boomers turn 65 every single day. Invest in Sun Belt real estate. - VanillaMan - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 11:06 am: Why start a business here? Go to Ft. Meyers, young men and women - and retirees. You’ll meet thousands of Illinoisans there, as well. - Pick a Name - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 11:09 am: Stats don’t lie, when the tax burden is high, people and businesses flee. - Honeybear - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 11:15 am: Well duh, When gut DCEO of Employees and resources Starve the beast As Rauner has done You get no state coordinated economic development Trips abroad and promises of jobs Are just empty words and activities. “Never mistake activity for achievement” Rauner illegally set up Intersect Illinois Like Rauner, it failed. To recap Schultz and Winters gutted DCEO Making it a husk Set up ILBEDC/Intersect Which failed because of incompetence The worst of all outcomes Lose/lose - wordslinger - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 11:15 am: –Fort Myers, Florida is first.– Port of entry for retiring Midwestern snowbirds and the service workers who cut the grass, clean the houses, cook the early-bird, etc., for them. The Midwest snowbird belt stretches along the Gulf from Ft. Meyers south to Marco Island. I have peeps who’ve been retired down there for a long time. Running into severe freshwater and labor shortages. - Excessively Rabid - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 11:17 am: After the 2008 bust, you couldn’t give away real estate in Ft Myers. Gotta consider the baseline. Also Naples/ Ft Myers is environmentally doomed, so there’s that. - Almost the weekend - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 11:21 am: You need a good public school district to attract families, and businesses. Unfortunately, funding k-12 schools in Illinois has been a disaster. Springfield and Decatur are areas where public schools are struggling. I feel for Decatur, consolidation, free trade and globalization have hit a town that once had over 100,000 residents and the lowest unemployment rate in the state. Springfield on the other hand is subsidized by state jobs, but has failed to build off of that for decades. If UIS was originally built downtown, with a physical presence near the capital and hospital, it would be higher up the list. Possibly competing with Bloomington and Champaign as the fastest growing city but that’s isn’t saying much. Pritzker has his hands full and the new census numbers are going to be a horrible narrative to be up against come 2021. - lakeside - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 11:28 am: Springfield’s going to look more attractive when Fort Myers is under water. Relatively cool, access to fresh water and farms, and no sea inside my home? Excellent. We should fund the schools better, though. - wordslinger - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 11:39 am: –After the 2008 bust, you couldn’t give away real estate in Ft Myers.– A lot of sharpies with cash made a killing buying distressed property. For every loser, there’s always a winner. - Annoyance - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 11:41 am: Blame the immigrants oh better yet the lack thereof. It’s cold in the Midwest, elders don’t like cold. - Illinois Resident - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 11:47 am: Colorado is growing pretty fast and they have cold winters, I wonder if cannabis legalization has had anything to do with it? - Downstate - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 11:49 am: Hmmm. While not listed, Urbana, IL is not enjoying the economic prosperity that Champaign is. That doesn’t make sense. Urbana has bumped up property taxes and invested it in education. But people are choosing not to live there. Wonder what the problem is? - Lucky Pierre - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 11:51 am: See the results of one political party in Illinois ignoring fiscal reality and the needs of the business community for decades. If you continually ignore the needs of business, why would they expand here? And we have a Speaker who brags about not being a change person. Illinois spends more than 35 states on K-12. https://www.the74million.org/the-states-that-spend-the-most-and-least-on-education-and-how-their-students-perform-compared-to-their-neighbors/ https://www.edweek.org/ew/qc/2017/state-highlights/2017/01/04/illinois-state-highlights-report-page.html if we had a healthier economy, we would have more tax revenue to spend more. - Stuff Happens - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 11:53 am: @Downstate: The problem with Urbana is two hospitals and a University taking over all many revenue-generating properties and making them tax-exempt. A lot more people have left since the impasse as well; they lost faith in job stability at the University, and seeing legislators try to take pensions away reminded them that it’s every person for themselves. - Skeptic - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 11:57 am: If only we had term limits… - Ole General - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 11:58 am: I’ve seen some unintelligent arguments on this site, especially lately, but the premise that these places might be underwater in 50 years doesn’t matter for a population that will be dead for decades. And what if the analysts on climate change and sea levels rising is off by a couple decades? Hey, move to the Great Lakes because you’ll drown in like 40 years is a microcosm on why this whole region is suffering. - Annoyance - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 11:59 am: Avg winter temp in Colorado, nor it’s the temps. But in the long-term we will have the water so give it a decade. Winters are mild with an average daily high temperature of 45 degrees Fahrenheit and days reaching 60 degrees are not uncommon. Snow doesn’t stay on the ground long in Denver so golf courses and outdoor cafes are able to stay open all year. - theCardinal - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 12:00 pm: Springtown used to be vibrant capitol city, that now has No manufacturing, no vision for jobs growth or development…they turned their backs to good manufaturing jobs in the mid 1980s and companies rewarded them accordingly by going elsewhere. If not for the Abe factor it would be a lot worse. - Smitty Irving - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 12:04 pm: Illinois Resident - Colorado will eventually run out of water. Denver west to the Left Coast will run out of water eventually. - Illinois Resident - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 12:07 pm: SI - Not disputing that. My point is taxes aside, open up industry. Cannabis legalization is a good place to start. - Jocko - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 12:08 pm: I’m willing to bet that up to 50% of those Ft. Myers properties are vacant in June, July, & August. To OG’s point, Trump’s own administration admits to a 7 degree temp rise and CO2 concentrations to double. To combat this, Trump plans to INCREASE Ethanol production. - City Zen - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 12:12 pm: The top 5 large cities with the highest growth are located in states with no or flat state income tax. - JB13 - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 12:15 pm: – Pritzker has his hands full and the new census numbers are going to be a horrible narrative to be up against come 2021 – Excuses beginning already? No. I, for one, cannot wait for the Rauner-less utopia that awaits this state come February, when the progressive income tax and full pension funding solve all of our problems. Can’t. Wait. - Illinois Resident - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 12:19 pm: CZ - What’s your excuse for all of the California cities on the list? How is the state of Kansas doing with all of it’s tax cuts? It is not all about taxes. How about the outsourcing of manufacturing jobs in the rust belt by neocon policies. - Last Bull Moose - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 12:23 pm: With more professional two income households, urban areas with more job prospects have a huge advantage. Smaller towns simply have worse opportunities for the spouse. Decatur is hit by multiple problems. It has a history of militant unions with productivity sapping work rules. The town had hollowed our with people moving to nearby towns with better schools and less crime. - 47th Ward - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 12:30 pm: Not everyone is taking this lying down. This is brilliant and should be supported by everybody in this sorry state. More doing, less whining please. http://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles/travel/ct-trav-illinois-cruise-american-duchess-1021-story.html - Smitty Irving - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 12:32 pm: CZ- And the top 2 are in “tax exporting” states. Texas exports their taxes to users of their oil, Florida to their tourists. - vole - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 12:34 pm: Quality of life issues for the young. What does Illinois offer in scenery and outdoor recreation? Industrial agriculture is hollowing the small towns, degrading the land and biodiversity, and furthering an extractive economy with much of its wealth exiting. But, ready your fuel tanks for E-15: we got plenty of corn that needs burning. - Steve - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 12:42 pm: Will high progressive income taxes be the cure for Illinois? - Illinois Resident - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 12:46 pm: -Will high progressive income taxes be the cure for Illinois?- Yes - Waffle Fries - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 12:47 pm: What about Grandview and Jerome? Were they lumped into Springfield? THat hardly seems fair… - Truthseeker - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 12:56 pm: The real problem in Urbana is that they have ceded all retail and business growth to Champaign and spent an inordinate amount of time and effort whining about the Carle property tax dynamic. Carle, by the way, continues to expand and build . . . .in Champaign. Nicely played former Mayor Prussing. The I-74 corridor grossly underdeveloped at the Urbana exits. Champaign exits are booming. It isn’t rocket science. Urbana focuses on left wing minutia, while Champaign rocks and rolls. - City Zen - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 1:06 pm: ==Will high progressive income taxes be the cure for Illinois?== Not with our high property taxes. Overall Tax Burden - Illinois Resident - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 1:08 pm: -Not with our high property taxes- That is the point of a progressive income tax system. - Hamilton - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 1:13 pm: A favorite activity of the past 10 years of Amish friends is to ride the train from IL/Indiana to Florida and buy up real estate in Sarasota and Ft. Meyers. - wordslinger - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 1:21 pm: –Champaign rocks and rolls.– Not much of a work force, I here. –A favorite activity of the past 10 years of Amish friends is to ride the train from IL/Indiana to Florida and buy up real estate in Sarasota and Ft. Meyers.– Yeah, that’s a thing. I came across it by chance a few years ago. Amish are big into buying, flipping and leasing real estate. - Schrocked - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 1:27 pm: =Amish are big into buying, flipping and leasing real estate.= The first thing that gets upgraded are the cabinets. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 1:30 pm: Does anyone really think progressive income tax will result in decrease in real tax when one looks at pension obligations of ” local” gov entities? - Anon Downstate - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 1:44 pm: Many (maybe, most) areas of Illinois still haven’t recovered from 2007-2010 real estate ‘crash & burn’. I noticed a study where areas like Boone County (Belvidere, N. IL) lost on average 38% of their market value of their real estate. Now that was using 2016 data, so there’s been a little recovery in the last 2 years, but the very latest sales numbers are stagnant. And that’s also happening in other western/northern burbs. And it’s worse downstate. The business community (at least from the talk I’m hearing) is convinced that JB Pritzker will be our next governor, and they don’t see that occurrence as a positive for Illinois. More taxes and more regulation means less disposable income for taxpayers and business, and that eventually translates into even lower real estate values. That’s going to directly hit the ‘wealth effect’, and it will just kill the real estate market. And that’s a direct impact to your local tax base. Enjoy the so-called ‘recovery’ we’re having - at least for the folks I’m seeing at business meetings. They are considerably less than confident about the future here in IL. - jim - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 1:46 pm: Quit being so negative about Illinois. Everything is perfect here, except for the people who mention our non-existent problems. it will be even better after jb and the mad man take over in January - Downstate - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 1:48 pm: But Urbana taxes and spends more on education than Champaign. Hence, the highly paid workforce of Carle and the University would likely want to live there. But they don’t. In fact the average income/household in Urbana lags far behind that of Champaign. Higher taxes, and their impact, are as easy to see as the street that separates Champaign and Urbana. - Responsa - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 1:52 pm: ==- Truthseeker - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 12:56 pm:== You have captured this situation well. When I attended school there (it’s been a while) Urbana was considered the place to live and was thriving with restaurants and retail supported by locals, the hospital community, and students/faculty. No more. For instance, check out Yelp to see how Lincoln Square Mall is depicted– “a barren ghost town”…”It is the shell of something that might have been a gem for the town, but has been left to rot.” The tale of how Champaign-Urbana, contiguous sister communities, have fared so differently in the 21st century could be fodder for honest study and analysis. - Nobody Important - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 1:53 pm: They are using Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) it is by metropolitan statistical area Champaign-Urbana, IL. No one reads the methodology. And most journalists are data illiterates. - Last Bull Moose - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 2:11 pm: School quality can drive decisions. Spending more money does not always mean better schools. When I lived in CT. There was 60% difference between the house in West Hartford and Hartford. People paid more for good schools. At that time poor but aspirational blacks were moving out of Hartford, often to nearby Bloomfield. I read stories where one family member would buy a house in Bloomfield and all the children from the extended family would enroll in Bloomfield schools. Sort of like Rauner, but driven by necessity. That is one reason I favor school vouchers. They are the best way I know of to keep people in locations with bad public schools. - kitty - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 2:16 pm: The MSA population isn’t being used. From the methodology: “In determining our sample, we considered only the “city proper” in each case and excluded cities in the surrounding metro area”. Champaign-Urbana and Bloomington-Normal both have combined populations of more than 130,000 (2017 estimates) not including their metro area populations (CU 231,891, BN 191,067). Both are listed in the “small” cities category (less than 100K population). CU and BN are each de-facto single communities, measuring Champaign and Bloomington without Urbana and Normal respectively skews the results. Neither Urbana nor Normal are economically “suburban” or “satellite” communities in the traditional sense that the methodology seeks to exclude for purposes of comparison. - Em - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 2:24 pm: =They are using Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) it is by metropolitan statistical area Champaign-Urbana, IL. No one reads the methodology. And most journalists are data illiterates.= That’s what I assumed, but not sure. According to their methodology: “In determining our sample, we considered only the “city proper” in each case and excluded cities in the surrounding metro area.” =The tale of how Champaign-Urbana, contiguous sister communities, have fared so differently in the 21st century could be fodder for honest study and analysis. = Agree. When I was in college, I thought they were like case studies in Conservative/Liberal politics. Champaign has all the new businesses and new growth. Urbana has people fixing up old houses and heading to the food co-ops in their sandals. And there is a massive difference in the number of trees and heavy vegetation in Urbana neighborhoods, especially those near campus. If you ride a motorcycle there in the summer, you can feel the difference in temperature when you cross the line between towns. Cools off a couple degrees when you hit Urbana. Champaign has mini-parks that look like every other modern flat park, few trees, lots of sidewalks. Old neighborhoods in Urbana are like a jungle. Meanwhile the strip malls grow like weeds in Northeast and Southwest Champaign. - Sue - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 2:31 pm: Any one who even might suggest blaming Rauner as to the sorry state of the Illinois business environment as compared to Florida is too dumb to bs allowed out of their house - Sue - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 2:38 pm: Florida - lets see- no income tax- better climate- right to work-business friendly legislature- low workers comp costs- virtually no unionization. Yea it’s Rauners fault that Florida is in better fiscal shape and is expanding while Illinois is shrinking. That makes a lot of sense - Lucky Pierre - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 2:50 pm: As it turns out, states in the worst fiscal shape also tend to impose the highest tax rates in the nation. In fact, six of the 10 states that consistently show up as the least fiscally solvent rank in the Top 10 for highest taxes as a share of income, according to the Tax Foundation. Take a look at Illinois, which ranks dead last in the most recent report. According Mercatus, the Prairie State doesn’t have enough cash to cover short-term obligations. Its revenues only cover 92% of expenses. The state has long-term liabilities more than three times as large as its total assets. Illinois’ unfunded pension liability was almost $446 billion in 2016. That’s equal to 67% of the state’s total personal income. https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/worst-run-states-big-spending-democrats/ - Shemp - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 3:08 pm: Honeybear, DCEO has been useless since Blago created it to replace DCCA. It has nothing to do with the Rauner gutting. Places like Decatur were suffering long before Rauner. - lost in the weeds - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 3:13 pm: I note that the study covers period since 2010. Since Springfield was less effected by 2008-2009 decline and Ft. Myers was severely effected by decline, is not a measure of a rebound and revert to a mean. - Shemp - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 3:19 pm: Ouch, plenty of other Illinois cities at the bottom of that list (Illinois has 9 of the lowest 61 and owns 15% of the lowest 10%). 515 Decatur 507 Springfield 499 Joliet 493 Waukegan 485 Evanston 484 Peoria 483 Rockford 469 Bloomington 454 Elgin 433 Skokie - Illinois Resident - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 3:33 pm: Anon Downstate - So what makes you an authority on the business community in Illinois? Your rant sounds a lot like republican talking points. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 3:59 pm: ==is too dumb to bs allowed out of their house== They let you out don’t they? ==Yea it’s Rauners fault == Oh for pete’s sake. Can some of you not be victims for just 5 seconds? - zatoichi - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 3:59 pm: Chicago ranks as 374, yet today Crains has an article saying how Chicago is seen as an emerging world mega city by 2030 according to Euromonitor International. But why move there, nothing going on. https://www.chicagobusiness.com/news/chicago-seen-emerging-megacity?utm_source=today-s-crain-s&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20181010&utm_content=article14-headline - Keyser Soze - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 4:31 pm: The mid-sized Illinois cities are not faring well. Of course, their common denominator is “Illinois”, the circumstances of which probably aren’t going to change anytime soon. That is not to say that the Illinois cities couldn’t do better. Champaign seems to be doing much better than its sister, Urbana, largely because it is actively growing its once blighted downtown. Urbana, on the other hand, appears to be stagnant. It is home to lots of college professors who are very influential in Urbana politics. This former resident has observed that Urbana studies trees while Champaign cultivates the forest. Bloomington-Normal might be just the opposite of C-U. There isn’t much happening in Bloomington these days but Normal, with its heavy education sector, is beginning to sparkle. The respective forms of city government may be to blame. While manufacturing in the U.S. has been on the upswing, it is generally lack-luster in Illinois, think Decatur, Joliet, Peoria, Rockford, etc. Surrounding states, by most appearances, are doing better. Wisconsin versus Belvidere-Rockford is a good example. This can’t be an accident. Closer to home, the city fathers in Springfield seemingly haven’t had a lucid vision for as long as anyone can remember. State government used to take care of everyone. So, deep thought wasn’t really necessary. That changed at or about the time of Blago. Deep thinking has yet to return. Now, and but for a surplus of aging baby boomers to fuel the medical sector, Springfield’s growth rate would be in the negative column. Everything happens for a reason. Observations in the above rant, even if only half-right, suggest that a few changes in how we do things should be considered. That is all. - City Zen - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 4:40 pm: ==Chicago ranks as 374== The list is about fastest growth. It’s much easier for smaller large cities like Austin/Charlotte/Nashville to “grow fast” than Chicago/New York/Philadelphia. Chicago is indeed an emerging world mega city. There are not many contenders in the USA at this point anyway. - Honeybear - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 4:53 pm: Shemp- totally not true. DCEO used to have a fully staffed Regional Economic Development teams, a research and planning department, functioning tourism and marketing departments, all working hard for the economic development of the state. Now it’s a ghost town. How is that helping. Don’t give me that crap about Blago. Rauner tried to privatize and it failed because Intersect Never got non profit status - Sue - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 4:55 pm: Demoralized- why is it that you categorize anyone who doesn’t blame Rauner for the States lousy business and fiscal problems as victims. You can’t blame Rauner for problems that are 40 years inthe making all caused by legislators in bed with public unions - City Zen - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 5:06 pm: ==You can’t blame Rauner…== Sure you can. Blame shifts to JB officially on July 1, 2019 when the new fiscal year kicks in. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 5:59 pm: Honeybear, DCEO regions were staffed with political hacks at the top that often didn’t have qualifications or background in eco devo and had no authority or programs to compete with neighboring states. DCEO wouldn’t put together an incentive package unless and until you went out of state to get an offer from them. Yes, Illinois required we entice our own local people to expand elsewhere and get offers to relocate or expand elsewhere before DCEO would begin talking numbers. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 7:01 pm: ==hy is it that you categorize anyone who doesn’t blame Rauner for the States lousy business and fiscal problems as victims.== I don’t. I categorize anyone who whine’s it’s somebody elese’s fault and blames Rauner for nothing as a victim. ==public unions== As per usual with you it’s all the union’s fault all the time. You really gotta let go of your extreme dislike of them. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 7:05 pm: ==You can’t blame Rauner for problems that are 40 years in the making== You can blame him (or at least partially blame him) for the last almost 4 years. Unless of course you believe he’s “not in charge,” in which case he should just go away and let someone else see if they can, you know, actually figure out how to govern. - wordslinger - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 8:26 pm: –The tale of how Champaign-Urbana, contiguous sister communities, have fared so differently in the 21st century could be fodder for honest study and analysis.– Or, just lazy, shallow, ideological crank-yanking. For crying out loud, it’s the same place. You really can’t divide your own navel for gazing. - DuPage Dave - Wednesday, Oct 10, 18 @ 8:56 pm: These city ranking articles are journalistic malpractice. What does number 382 mean? Is it twice as bad as number 191? The numbers are meaningless. What are the variables and (importantly) how are they weighted? You can turn these any way you want. - truthteller - Thursday, Oct 11, 18 @ 5:38 am: Decatur is the perfect example of what outsourcing of overseas production eventually brings to a community combined with major businesses underpaying their works - Caterpillar is another perfect example where you are lucky to make $14/hr with little or no benefits. That in itself drives away local businesses as the customer base just does not have money. Yes, Decatur is dead last in growth which also makes our real estate market perhaps one of the “best buys” in America. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.