People are getting turned away at the Illinois State Capitol after at least 3,600 people gathered in the first floor rotunda for a pro-life rally. Officials say it’s too dangerous to let anyone else in. #twillpic.twitter.com/X1t0St9iNd
The entire main staircase was clogged when I tried to get up to the second floor. Between a pro-life rally and a @MomsDemand rally, I've rarely seen the building so full. https://t.co/V5KLHwpMPD
Regardless of where one stands on the issue, no parental notification is overplaying one’s hand and is a gift wrapped rallying cry if the measure passes or not.
21 to smoke and no notification for this is a room service fastball that will resonate with many who are not right wing zealots.
Those who do not see it coming are the same crowd who sat in disbelief when the Orange Man was elected President. Knowing how much is too much is an art form. Even a win is a loss here.
These folks clearly organized well, but they represent an extreme minority view. The GOP position on abortion doesn’t even command the support of a plurality of “strong Republicans” *nationally*, let alone voters generally in a left-leaning state like IL. Link: https://twitter.com/SarahKCowan/status/1108071175253643264
Parental notification required for the school nurse to give an aspirin, but not for an abortion.
This type of action is why the gun supporters are so vehement in giving up anything. It seems like there is a continual overreach.
Do 3rd trimester (and now post-birth) abortions really make us better as a society?
- Six Degrees of Separation - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 3:30 pm:
I agree Illinoisans are generally supportive of abortion rights, but there are boundaries to be tested between the right to have an abortion and the circumstances in which they are regulated. We are seeing the same testing grounds on 2nd amendment gun rights.
So you think there are people who are ambivalent or pro-choice, but will be pushed into the vocal anti-choice crowd by the parental consent issue? That’s a bit of a hard sell.
Downstate, you really might want to be honest about the issues.
There are no “post birth” abortions. That’s simply does not occur.
Regarding an aspirin, when a child gets a headcold from violent abuse by a parent, we can talk about that. The notification laws are a problem because often the young women are victims of family members, or may face terrible abuse at home if they are pregnant.
The lack of notification exists to protect actual life — the lives of young women.
Few parents are ambivalent about being notified of matters regarding their children.
That responsibility eclipses the entire pro-choice/pro choice dynamic. It is about something much more fundamental - people who accept the full responsibility of rearing a child as the most important job they will ever have do not cede that foundational undertaking lightly. . . . . .for ANY reason.
Gooner, will sneaking off to get an abortion improve home life for that young lady? Not likely. Should we not be dealing with the real problem? I’m pro choice but some of this pro abortion nonsense is way over the top.
I don’t think they join the crowd and become vocal if they are not already there on the issue, I think it is more of an overreach in relation to what people are willing to cede as parents. I am not at all sure that line in the sand begins or ends with the abortion issue.
===If third trimester abortions stop unwanted people from being brought into the world, then a resounding yes.===
An ‘anonymous’ commenter identifies Downstate’s comment as an “ugly, nasty statement” but gives the latter comment a pass. Unreal
- Grandson of Man - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 4:00 pm:
Forcing people to give birth against their will is cruel, even if they’re minors. Don’t like teen pregnancies? Then let’s get our heads out of the sand, talk openly to our teenagers and teach them about birth control and sex education.
So the claim then is that parents generally, regardless of their personal views on the pro-choice/anti-choice debate, will be broadly mobilized on this issue based on their opposition to their children potentially receiving abortions without parental notification? I’m sorry, but still a hard sell. If a parent is pro-choice, or not politically motivated by abortion, I find it hard to believe that parental notification will move the needle in a democratically meaningful way.
==Second, when it comes to protecting the most vulnerable===
Girls who are at risk of being thrown out, abused, or worse if the family learns that they’re pregnant are absolutely among “the most vulnerable.” It’s time for the law to start recognizing that.
Speaking of mistakes by Life Whack Jobs … local spox for Bishop of Bling starts his exit interview…”Andrew Hansen, a spokesman for the Springfield Diocese, dismissed the report as “an impressive professional marketing brochure.”…meanwhile no scores from bishop Dialing 9-1-1 test.
Left-wing Europe allows abortion in only the first 3 months of pregnancy. It’s insane to allow it for anytime, for any reason, up until moments before birth. Parents should know if their child is going to take a human life. We require them to know if their child is going to take aspirin, or go on a school field trip.
Some IL politicians could care less about human life, they only care about extremist Planned Parenthood money.
I don’t think they mobilize at all. Most have long ago tuned the endless arguing out and simply live their lives in as positive and productive a fashion as possible.
Just suggesting that this type of dynamic is not unrelated to how a goof like Trump gets elected or even re-elected. There are a significant number of citizens out there who feel politically “homeless” as they are disenfranchised by the fringe elements left and right. Pretty reasonable and generally likeable folks.
Just suggesting that for that large swath of our citizenry nationally, attach the parental responsibility to the abortion issue at your own peril.
For most here this is inside baseball from a pre-determined vantage point. The habitual screaming match is Colgate vs. Crest for the masses. Ceding parental rights is simply fundamental beyond the abortion issue and chips away at the new lefts case to the vast middle. Again a nuanced art form that most did t see coming when the unthinkable happened in 2016 nationally. Just be careful about winning the battle and losing the war.
=And 3rd trimester abortions are VERY rare and only done when absolutely necessary.=
You may be unaware of this development: Late term abortion is being discussed openly by 2020 presidential candidates. It concerns some people who are pro-choice and perfectly on board with early abortions.
Haven’t seen it this crowded since Secretary of State George Ryan announced his run for governor in the rotunda during a lunch hour.
It was amazing how everyone decided to spend their lunch hour in the rotunda.
Pro choice Bruce bought the Party and drove it in to the ground. Now they’re trying to find their footing, and happy for them, some of the remaining pots of money also favor a hard line on abortion. It works nationally, after all.
But will it play here? Will notification turn the famously pro-choice suburbs Red again? If they run candidates who support access for all adults and funding for poor adults but draw a line at notification, it might. But if they run candidates who oppose all abortion in all forms at all times, notification will get buried in the mix and they’ll lose again.
The Repubs need that moderate voice again. Without it, this is all sound and fury, signifying nothing.
Do 3rd trimester (and now post-birth) abortions really make us better as a society?
Go talk to someone who has had a 3rd trimester abortion. They are medical necessities and as horrific for the parents as a spontaneous abortion or a still birth.
For the record, abortions and teen pregnancies are at all-time lows.
Perhaps sex education and access to contraception are good things. I’d be curious as to the percentage of rally-goers who think so. I know where the Holy Goalie stands.
- GraduatedCollegeStudent - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 10:17 pm:
Left-wing Europe allows abortion in only the first ===3 months of pregnancy. It’s insane to allow it for anytime, for any reason, up until moments before birth. Parents should know if their child is going to take a human life. We require them to know if their child is going to take aspirin, or go on a school field trip.===
Left wing Europe also has better worker rights/access to time off on the whole and significantly closer clinics than can be found in large chunks of the US. Maybe we wouldn’t have to worry about allowing 3rd trimester abortions if you didn’t need to plan to have one in 5-6 months.
- You Bet - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 3:14 pm:
Regardless of where one stands on the issue, no parental notification is overplaying one’s hand and is a gift wrapped rallying cry if the measure passes or not.
21 to smoke and no notification for this is a room service fastball that will resonate with many who are not right wing zealots.
Those who do not see it coming are the same crowd who sat in disbelief when the Orange Man was elected President. Knowing how much is too much is an art form. Even a win is a loss here.
- Anon - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 3:16 pm:
These folks clearly organized well, but they represent an extreme minority view. The GOP position on abortion doesn’t even command the support of a plurality of “strong Republicans” *nationally*, let alone voters generally in a left-leaning state like IL. Link: https://twitter.com/SarahKCowan/status/1108071175253643264
- You Bet - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 3:19 pm:
Confuse zero parental notification with the run of the mill pro-life crowd at your own peril. This goes substantially behond that group.
- Perrid - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 3:21 pm:
Anon, you may be right in general, but I’m not sure you have to be far right to not like kids having medical procedures without the parents knowledge.
- Anonymous - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 3:26 pm:
They should go rally outside Bruce’s house. Their own guy signed the bill.
- Downstate - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 3:29 pm:
Parental notification required for the school nurse to give an aspirin, but not for an abortion.
This type of action is why the gun supporters are so vehement in giving up anything. It seems like there is a continual overreach.
Do 3rd trimester (and now post-birth) abortions really make us better as a society?
- Six Degrees of Separation - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 3:30 pm:
I agree Illinoisans are generally supportive of abortion rights, but there are boundaries to be tested between the right to have an abortion and the circumstances in which they are regulated. We are seeing the same testing grounds on 2nd amendment gun rights.
- Honeybear - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 3:34 pm:
Well good on them. I’m impressed by the organizational work. I totally disagree but this is what democracy looks like. Game on
- Water is Wet - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 3:34 pm:
@You Bet
So you think there are people who are ambivalent or pro-choice, but will be pushed into the vocal anti-choice crowd by the parental consent issue? That’s a bit of a hard sell.
- SaulGoodman - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 3:40 pm:
**Do 3rd trimester (and now post-birth) abortions really make us better as a society?**
Oh good god. Post-birth abortions don’t happen. And 3rd trimester abortions are VERY rare and only done when absolutely necessary.
- Tommydanger - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 3:41 pm:
>If third trimester abortions stop unwanted people from being brought into the world, then a resounding yes.
- Tommydanger - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 3:41 pm:
“Unwanted people”
The slipperiest of all slopes
- Gooner - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 3:44 pm:
Downstate, you really might want to be honest about the issues.
There are no “post birth” abortions. That’s simply does not occur.
Regarding an aspirin, when a child gets a headcold from violent abuse by a parent, we can talk about that. The notification laws are a problem because often the young women are victims of family members, or may face terrible abuse at home if they are pregnant.
The lack of notification exists to protect actual life — the lives of young women.
- You Bet - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 3:46 pm:
Few parents are ambivalent about being notified of matters regarding their children.
That responsibility eclipses the entire pro-choice/pro choice dynamic. It is about something much more fundamental - people who accept the full responsibility of rearing a child as the most important job they will ever have do not cede that foundational undertaking lightly. . . . . .for ANY reason.
- City Zen - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 3:49 pm:
==Sorry if links are discouraged==
Actually, Anonymous posts are discouraged.
- Bigtwich - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 3:50 pm:
==This type of action is why the gun supporters are so vehement in giving up anything. ==
Tilt.
- Anonymous - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 3:53 pm:
Downstate was right. It was a fact and abortion is ugly and what happens can’t be denied.
There are post birth abortions. Just listen to the Virginia Governor
- RedIllinois - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 3:54 pm:
Gooner, will sneaking off to get an abortion improve home life for that young lady? Not likely. Should we not be dealing with the real problem? I’m pro choice but some of this pro abortion nonsense is way over the top.
- You Bet - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 3:54 pm:
@Water is Wet
I don’t think they join the crowd and become vocal if they are not already there on the issue, I think it is more of an overreach in relation to what people are willing to cede as parents. I am not at all sure that line in the sand begins or ends with the abortion issue.
The bridge too far dynamic really is an art form.
- Anonymous - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 3:55 pm:
Do all of these people advocate for adoption as well? Hmm…
- Gooner - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 3:57 pm:
RedIllinois,
IF the pregnancy is from a family member>
If she’s going to be abused by her parents if they find out she’s pregnant?
Of course she’s better off.
This isn’t a close call.
- Eye roll - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 3:57 pm:
@downstate.
Lay off the juice. There is no such thing as post term abortion.
- Cubs in '16 - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 3:59 pm:
===ugly, nasty statements like Downstate===
===If third trimester abortions stop unwanted people from being brought into the world, then a resounding yes.===
An ‘anonymous’ commenter identifies Downstate’s comment as an “ugly, nasty statement” but gives the latter comment a pass. Unreal
- Grandson of Man - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 4:00 pm:
Forcing people to give birth against their will is cruel, even if they’re minors. Don’t like teen pregnancies? Then let’s get our heads out of the sand, talk openly to our teenagers and teach them about birth control and sex education.
- Water is Wet - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 4:05 pm:
@You Bet
So the claim then is that parents generally, regardless of their personal views on the pro-choice/anti-choice debate, will be broadly mobilized on this issue based on their opposition to their children potentially receiving abortions without parental notification? I’m sorry, but still a hard sell. If a parent is pro-choice, or not politically motivated by abortion, I find it hard to believe that parental notification will move the needle in a democratically meaningful way.
- Jocko - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 4:06 pm:
Like HB said, I respect their right to assemble but disagree with their intent.
I also hope those 3600 favor comprehensive sex education in their schools rather than abstinence-only-until-marriage.
- Anon - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 4:07 pm:
===First, you are wrong on the numbers===
No, I’m not, and I provided a link to them.
==Second, when it comes to protecting the most vulnerable===
Girls who are at risk of being thrown out, abused, or worse if the family learns that they’re pregnant are absolutely among “the most vulnerable.” It’s time for the law to start recognizing that.
- Gooner - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 4:17 pm:
One note on the turnout.
Based on election outcomes in Illinois, the “pro-life” crowds at the statehouse seem like Chicago Blackhawk crowds in the 1980s.
The team played to a full house every night, but the total number of Hawks fans anywhere was probably around 25,000.
They show up, but that doesn’t mean there are a lot of them.
- Annonin' - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 4:19 pm:
Speaking of mistakes by Life Whack Jobs … local spox for Bishop of Bling starts his exit interview…”Andrew Hansen, a spokesman for the Springfield Diocese, dismissed the report as “an impressive professional marketing brochure.”…meanwhile no scores from bishop Dialing 9-1-1 test.
- Hey - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 4:21 pm:
Left-wing Europe allows abortion in only the first 3 months of pregnancy. It’s insane to allow it for anytime, for any reason, up until moments before birth. Parents should know if their child is going to take a human life. We require them to know if their child is going to take aspirin, or go on a school field trip.
Some IL politicians could care less about human life, they only care about extremist Planned Parenthood money.
- You Bet - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 4:22 pm:
@Water is Wet
I don’t think they mobilize at all. Most have long ago tuned the endless arguing out and simply live their lives in as positive and productive a fashion as possible.
Just suggesting that this type of dynamic is not unrelated to how a goof like Trump gets elected or even re-elected. There are a significant number of citizens out there who feel politically “homeless” as they are disenfranchised by the fringe elements left and right. Pretty reasonable and generally likeable folks.
Just suggesting that for that large swath of our citizenry nationally, attach the parental responsibility to the abortion issue at your own peril.
For most here this is inside baseball from a pre-determined vantage point. The habitual screaming match is Colgate vs. Crest for the masses. Ceding parental rights is simply fundamental beyond the abortion issue and chips away at the new lefts case to the vast middle. Again a nuanced art form that most did t see coming when the unthinkable happened in 2016 nationally. Just be careful about winning the battle and losing the war.
- Responsa - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 4:24 pm:
=And 3rd trimester abortions are VERY rare and only done when absolutely necessary.=
You may be unaware of this development: Late term abortion is being discussed openly by 2020 presidential candidates. It concerns some people who are pro-choice and perfectly on board with early abortions.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/beto-orourke-abortion_n_5c913687e4b07db587164c2b
=
- Yep - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 4:31 pm:
Yep we all know the government can raise kids better than parents. They can also budget better
- Michelle Flaherty - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 4:32 pm:
Haven’t seen it this crowded since Secretary of State George Ryan announced his run for governor in the rotunda during a lunch hour.
It was amazing how everyone decided to spend their lunch hour in the rotunda.
- Anon - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 4:34 pm:
==how a goof like Trump gets elected==
A goof like Trump gets elected because the electoral college enshrines white supremacy.
- You Bet - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 4:37 pm:
@Water is Wet
Appreciate your thoughtful insight and perspective and the civil discourse. Gotta go. Peace.
- Anonymous - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 4:43 pm:
Pro choice Bruce bought the Party and drove it in to the ground. Now they’re trying to find their footing, and happy for them, some of the remaining pots of money also favor a hard line on abortion. It works nationally, after all.
But will it play here? Will notification turn the famously pro-choice suburbs Red again? If they run candidates who support access for all adults and funding for poor adults but draw a line at notification, it might. But if they run candidates who oppose all abortion in all forms at all times, notification will get buried in the mix and they’ll lose again.
The Repubs need that moderate voice again. Without it, this is all sound and fury, signifying nothing.
- JS Mill - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 4:52 pm:
=post birth abortions=
Post-birth and abortion are mutually exclusive terms.
- Grandson of Man - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 4:59 pm:
“Some IL politicians could care less about human life”
Especially when they scream for budget cuts that would hurt the most vulnerable.
- M - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 5:21 pm:
What do the pro-life people have to say about the children being separated from their parents and held in cages?
- Cheryl44 - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 5:26 pm:
Do 3rd trimester (and now post-birth) abortions really make us better as a society?
Go talk to someone who has had a 3rd trimester abortion. They are medical necessities and as horrific for the parents as a spontaneous abortion or a still birth.
There is no such thing as a post birth abortion.
- JS Mill - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 6:01 pm:
=What do the pro-life people have to say about the children being separated from their parents and held in cages?=
These are likely the same folks who supported Trump, the religious right and complete hypocrites.
- wordslinger - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 6:16 pm:
–post-birth abortions–
You’re not making sense.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/26/health/abortion-bill-trump.html
- wordslinger - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 9:29 pm:
For the record, abortions and teen pregnancies are at all-time lows.
Perhaps sex education and access to contraception are good things. I’d be curious as to the percentage of rally-goers who think so. I know where the Holy Goalie stands.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2018/11/21/number-abortions-us-hits-historic-low/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8f3c0ddafe71
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/teen-birth-rate-drops-again-to-all-time-low-cdc/
- GraduatedCollegeStudent - Wednesday, Mar 20, 19 @ 10:17 pm:
Left-wing Europe allows abortion in only the first ===3 months of pregnancy. It’s insane to allow it for anytime, for any reason, up until moments before birth. Parents should know if their child is going to take a human life. We require them to know if their child is going to take aspirin, or go on a school field trip.===
Left wing Europe also has better worker rights/access to time off on the whole and significantly closer clinics than can be found in large chunks of the US. Maybe we wouldn’t have to worry about allowing 3rd trimester abortions if you didn’t need to plan to have one in 5-6 months.