I was kidding Dan about why his post did take, but he really is a quality government journalist. I was sickened when Governing failed. While working for the State, I found it to be a very useful source on efforts to improve the quality and efficiency of government programs. I even took in a conference they sponsored on performance management.
I hope Dan gets a good gig at an organization that utilizes his skills and is still involved in government improvement.
Romeo uses the slippery slope argument, which hardcore 2nd amendment advocates frequently use. I can do the same thing in reverse. If I have the right the bear arms, then can I own a ground to air missile launcher? An atomic bomb? You know, so I can defend myself.
- Grandson of Man - Friday, Oct 18, 19 @ 10:48 am:
Also arguing like a child, in a ridiculous extreme. It’s like saying, oh why don’t we go ahead and just raise the minimum wage to $30 an hour because we raised it a few bucks.
- Da Big Bad Wolf - Friday, Oct 18, 19 @ 11:19 am:
==I agree with Romeo, Illinois gun laws do absolutely nothing to determine gun violence. Too bad, it would make things so much easier if they did ==
The waiting period law that Rauner signed 7/16/18 has reduced Illinois gun suicide deaths. Illinois has less gun suicides than the national average.
“I agree with Romeo, Illinois gun laws do absolutely nothing” One could also make a meta post about how straw men do nothing but stand around and watch the crows eat corn.
@Grandson ==Also arguing like a child, in a ridiculous extreme.==
Ad hominem attacks are any better?
An ad hominem argument is when one attacks the person making the argument, rather than the argument itself (when the attack on the person is completely irrelevant to the argument the person is making).
In this case, a hypothetical ad hominem argument would be if Grandson of Man had said, “Because you are a child, you are too young to possibly know what you’re talking about,” i.e. an attack on the person not the person’s argument.
By contrast, Grandson of Man characterized the nature of your argument as overly-simple and juvenile. He even posted an example of similar juvenile arguments.
Because his comment addressed the argument and not the person making the argument, Grandson of Man did not commit an ad hominem attack.
-OW-, at the risk of stirring the pot, I will note that fingerprints are sometimes required for a job. At the age of 20 I had to supply my fingerprints to the State so they could do a full background check before I was hired because I would have access to sensitive and confidential data.
Without a plan to go take guns from the people CPD knows are dangerous criminals, this is just liberal fundraising propaganda.
Our society needs to accept there are bad people. For the most part law enforcement is good and can identify bad people. Let law enforcement take guns from bad people. Execute stop and frisk, searches on felons that CPD beleves hold guns, stop acting like more rules for law abiding citizens works.
MO requires fingerprints for lawyers, so in the grand scheme of things, asking for it for guns is not crazy. I just don’t think it will solve the problem we are trying to solve.
Back to the original post concerning FOID. They are a worthless tool when it comes to curbing gun violence. All statistics can be interpreted to bare this out.
- City Zen - Friday, Oct 18, 19 @ 9:52 am:
Strawmen have fingerprints?
The more you know.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Oct 18, 19 @ 10:04 am:
Straw men have all kinds of things to seem useful to useless arguments.
It’s their job.
- SpfdNewb - Friday, Oct 18, 19 @ 10:08 am:
I thought straw men were supposed to be left in a field and ignored?
- Lester Holt’s Mustache - Friday, Oct 18, 19 @ 10:12 am:
I agree with Romeo, Illinois gun laws do absolutely nothing to determine gun violence. Too bad, it would make things so much easier if they did
- Norseman - Friday, Oct 18, 19 @ 10:43 am:
I was kidding Dan about why his post did take, but he really is a quality government journalist. I was sickened when Governing failed. While working for the State, I found it to be a very useful source on efforts to improve the quality and efficiency of government programs. I even took in a conference they sponsored on performance management.
I hope Dan gets a good gig at an organization that utilizes his skills and is still involved in government improvement.
- Steve Rogers - Friday, Oct 18, 19 @ 10:44 am:
Romeo uses the slippery slope argument, which hardcore 2nd amendment advocates frequently use. I can do the same thing in reverse. If I have the right the bear arms, then can I own a ground to air missile launcher? An atomic bomb? You know, so I can defend myself.
- Grandson of Man - Friday, Oct 18, 19 @ 10:48 am:
Also arguing like a child, in a ridiculous extreme. It’s like saying, oh why don’t we go ahead and just raise the minimum wage to $30 an hour because we raised it a few bucks.
- Da Big Bad Wolf - Friday, Oct 18, 19 @ 11:19 am:
==I agree with Romeo, Illinois gun laws do absolutely nothing to determine gun violence. Too bad, it would make things so much easier if they did
==
The waiting period law that Rauner signed 7/16/18 has reduced Illinois gun suicide deaths. Illinois has less gun suicides than the national average.
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/mar/24/doug-jones/yes-waiting-periods-gun-purchases-have-been-linked/
- Skeptic - Friday, Oct 18, 19 @ 11:43 am:
“I agree with Romeo, Illinois gun laws do absolutely nothing” One could also make a meta post about how straw men do nothing but stand around and watch the crows eat corn.
- Romeo - Friday, Oct 18, 19 @ 11:47 am:
@Grandson ==Also arguing like a child, in a ridiculous extreme.==
Ad hominem attacks are any better?
Fingerprints are not collected for the following: bank accounts, getting married, purchasing a vehicle, buying/consuming alcohol, etc.
Fingerprints should not be the entry-point for practicing your rights.
- Huh? - Friday, Oct 18, 19 @ 11:48 am:
“straw men were supposed to be left in a field and ignored?”
If they only had a brain …
- Dave Clarkin - Friday, Oct 18, 19 @ 12:00 pm:
Best part of any sick day is reading Capitolfax.
My favorite part of the Straw Man Argument was the Straw Man Triple-Reverse Psychology, paraphrased:
“You don’t want to require fingerprints for FOID because then the entire FOID law will be overturned.”
Yes, Straw Man wants to stop you from giving him every thing he wants.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Oct 18, 19 @ 12:06 pm:
Thanks for the shoutout, Rich
:)
- @misterjayem - Friday, Oct 18, 19 @ 12:10 pm:
An ad hominem argument is when one attacks the person making the argument, rather than the argument itself (when the attack on the person is completely irrelevant to the argument the person is making).
In this case, a hypothetical ad hominem argument would be if Grandson of Man had said, “Because you are a child, you are too young to possibly know what you’re talking about,” i.e. an attack on the person not the person’s argument.
By contrast, Grandson of Man characterized the nature of your argument as overly-simple and juvenile. He even posted an example of similar juvenile arguments.
Because his comment addressed the argument and not the person making the argument, Grandson of Man did not commit an ad hominem attack.
– MrJM
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Oct 18, 19 @ 12:34 pm:
=== Fingerprints are not collected for the following: bank accounts, getting married, purchasing a vehicle, buying/consuming alcohol, etc.===
So fingerprints are Never to be used?
===Fingerprints should not be the entry-point for practicing your rights.===
FOID cards are part of process. Adding fingerprinting to that process isn’t denying any right to anyone.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Oct 18, 19 @ 12:34 pm:
=== Fingerprints are not collected for the following: bank accounts, getting married, purchasing a vehicle, buying/consuming alcohol, etc.===
The straw man is relieved.
- don the legend - Friday, Oct 18, 19 @ 12:35 pm:
A left from MrJM, a right from MrJM and down goes Romeo.
- RNUG - Friday, Oct 18, 19 @ 12:43 pm:
-OW-, at the risk of stirring the pot, I will note that fingerprints are sometimes required for a job. At the age of 20 I had to supply my fingerprints to the State so they could do a full background check before I was hired because I would have access to sensitive and confidential data.
- RNUG - Friday, Oct 18, 19 @ 12:44 pm:
FWIW, I did get a chuckle yesterday out of the first couple of exchanges Rich highlighted.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Oct 18, 19 @ 12:44 pm:
- RNUG -
Forgot about those instances too.
Thanks, happy Friday.
- the Patriot - Friday, Oct 18, 19 @ 12:46 pm:
Without a plan to go take guns from the people CPD knows are dangerous criminals, this is just liberal fundraising propaganda.
Our society needs to accept there are bad people. For the most part law enforcement is good and can identify bad people. Let law enforcement take guns from bad people. Execute stop and frisk, searches on felons that CPD beleves hold guns, stop acting like more rules for law abiding citizens works.
MO requires fingerprints for lawyers, so in the grand scheme of things, asking for it for guns is not crazy. I just don’t think it will solve the problem we are trying to solve.
- Blue Dog Dem - Friday, Oct 18, 19 @ 1:03 pm:
Back to the original post concerning FOID. They are a worthless tool when it comes to curbing gun violence. All statistics can be interpreted to bare this out.
- Blue Dog Dem - Friday, Oct 18, 19 @ 1:07 pm:
I am fairly sure my daughter the teacher had to be fingerprinted.
- R A T - Friday, Oct 18, 19 @ 1:51 pm:
I have a man crush after reading MrJM ad hominem argument post.
- Dotnonymous - Friday, Oct 18, 19 @ 2:32 pm:
I would propose a new requirement for Schools…Civic Logic and Dirty Debate Devices 101.
As an aside…My Wife doesn’t need fingerprints in our marriage…She always seems to know whose guilty.