Color me skeptical
Tuesday, Oct 7, 2025 - Posted by Rich Miller
* Official federal government background from Sunday is here if you need it. Sun-Times…
Body-camera video of a Border Patrol agent involved in the shooting of a woman who was allegedly chasing agents in Brighton Park over the weekend shows an officer saying, “Do something, b—-,” before pulling over and shooting the woman five times, the woman’s attorney said in federal court Monday.
The video appears to contradict the government’s allegation that Marimar Martinez, 30, drove toward officers before one of them opened fire on her late Saturday morning on Kedzie Avenue near 39th Street, her attorney, Christopher Parente, said at a detention hearing at the Dirksen Federal Courthouse.
U.S. District Judge Heather McShain denied a request by the federal government to detain Martinez and Anthony Ian Santos Ruiz, 21, pending trial. Martinez and Ruiz, who wore orange jumpsuits for the detention hearing, were charged Sunday with felony assault of a federal officer.
The judge said it “is a miracle to me that no one was more seriously injured” in the incident in which Martinez and Ruiz allegedly followed agents for more than 20 minutes as they drove after conducting an operation in Oak Lawn. But she said the defendants’ lack of criminal history and extensive family and community ties compelled her to release them pending trial.
* Tribune…
One should always maintain a healthy level of skepticism whenever a governmental policing agency issues a statement. But the Border Patrol, ICE and DHS elevate that skepticism to a whole ‘nother level.
* Meanwhile…
- Roadrager - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 8:43 am:
They want an excuse to go full fash on the country, and if we aren’t going to give it to them, they’ll just make them on their own.
This is why I tire so.quickly of the “but you need to protest the right way” crowd. You are dealing with people whose goal is absolute, perpetual, and unquestioned power. No form of protest against them is going to be “the right way” in their eyes.
- Demoralized - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 8:57 am:
==shows an officer saying, “Do something, b—-==
Just confirms the fact that these agents are acting like thugs.
- Harrison - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 9:16 am:
Do you also think we should also maintain a healthy level of skepticism of the claims of a woman who threatened federal agents on line, had a semiautomatic firearm riding shotgun with her, who allegedly engaged in a high speed chase, blowing through stop signs while live streaming on Facebook, chasing federal agents for at least 20 minutes?
- Demoralized - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 9:22 am:
@Harrison
You’re going to continue to excuse the indefensible because you’ve bought into the Trump narrative hook, line and sinker and you are perfectly ok with turning this country into a military dictatorship. I feel sorry for you that that is all the respect you have for our Constitution and are that willing to give away your rights.
- Demoralized - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 9:23 am:
And your “whataboutism” doesn’t address this specific post. You’re just looking to change the conversation to support your narrative.
- 47th Ward - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 9:23 am:
===I tire so.quickly of the “but you need to protest the right way” crowd.===
So you’re part of the open rebellion crowd? Where do you think that’ll end?
- Jocko - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 9:25 am:
==allegedly engaged in a high speed chase==
So it’s okay to shoot at someone who follows too close, shouts profanities, and honks their horn?
- Demoralized - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 9:27 am:
==So you’re part of the open rebellion crowd? ==
Please. Nobody is in open rebellion.
- Amalia - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 9:28 am:
every incident should be considered in total on it’s own. all that led up to it and all of the evidence. that is fair to the accused. and the accusers. in this case the incident started well before the stopping point where she was shot. it included traffic running following the feds.Supt. Snelling spoke yesterday suggesting that people who follow law enforcement in cars should understand the threat that officers feel, especially if they block them. and that they should not do that. not to justify shooting someone but interfering with law enforcement is not smart. i’m seeing lots on line, not just warning people where ICE is, but encouraging people to come out, seemingly to interfere. rocks thrown, blocking vehicles, following not a good idea.
- Pundent - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 9:36 am:
The President is acting in predictable ways and unfortunately there are some citizens who are responding predictably. But when it’s all said and done we have to expect more from the President. He should be expected to lead not incite riots and chaos in our cities. Nobody should be cheering any of this.
- Steve - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 9:46 am:
-Just confirms the fact that these agents are acting like thugs.-
I’d like to see all the video available in the area at the time before reaching judgment. That’s the nice thing about living in the video era.
- Excitable Boy - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 9:47 am:
- So you’re part of the open rebellion crowd? Where do you think that’ll end? -
Chanting and obstructing traffic is hardly open rebellion. But by all means get these thugs some flowers, let us know how it goes.
- Bud's Bar Stool - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 9:48 am:
=== Do you also think we should also maintain a healthy level of skepticism ===
The whole point of the Bill of Rights is to enshrine in the Constitution the rights that individuals have to protect them against oppressive government forces. Why? Because human beings in power have a tendency to abuse that power. The Bill of Rights recognizes that reality and seeks to contain it.
The federal forces under Trump are violating constitutional rights of individuals with impunity. They are defying basic accountability by concealing their faces and identities, using vehicles without license plates, refusing to disclose details of individuals arrested, showing contempt for local authority, etc. They lie about their true intentions and routinely lie about the facts.
Any individual at odds with them, by default, deserves the benefit of the doubt.
- Rizz al Ghul - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 9:52 am:
==where do you think that will end?==
You’re missing the point roadrager is trying to make. They’re simply saying that no matter how people protest, this regime will always say it is the wrong way and punish it. Or they will blatantly incite problems to justify their violent response. Nobody is advocating for open rebellion, we’re advocating for our right to peacefully assemble and protest which is being taken away.
- Telly - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 10:06 am:
== This is why I tire so.quickly of the “but you need to protest the right way” crowd. ==
Tell that to the poor folks in Broadview who have trouble getting in and out of their homes.
- Someone You Should Know - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 10:10 am:
I’ve had a lot of skepticism on this entire thing. What really bothered me was their flack was all over the map. It happened in Broadview but CPD did not cooperate, it happened here, there were two incidents. You really cant’ get a straight story from them.
- ArchPundit - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 10:13 am:
==semiautomatic firearm riding shotgun
Oh Todd!
You mean her legal firearm that she had a concealed carry permit for and the video apparently shows she never touched. That firearm? While I would not have it on my seat, there’s nothing illegal about it.
===So you’re part of the open rebellion crowd? Where do you think that’ll end?
I’m not at all and believe in peaceful resistance, but I do not put order above liberty as MLK pointed out many white moderates put order above liberty.
- Keyrock - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 10:18 am:
Harrison - I’m skeptical of any story about a fast-moving situation where there is video that hasn’t been shared.
But when a defense lawyer says he’s seen the video and it says X, and the prosecutor who has seen the video doesn’t contradict him, it’s fair to assume the defense lawyer is telling the truth about X.
For more analysis of DHS’ shifting stories, see
https://www.emptywheel.net/2025/10/07/the-brutal-cbp-assault-tied-to-the-marimar-martinez-shooting/
- Amalia - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 10:25 am:
no one is missing the point. there is a protest zone in Broadview. apparently some people think this is denying them the right to protest. it is not. also it’s a standard thing in Chicago, for years. the point being made with that is to allow for protest but not prevent law enforcement from doing their work.
- ArchPundit - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 10:27 am:
sorry for the banned punctuation.
- Juice - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 10:39 am:
Someone you should know,
What authority does the Chicago Police Department have to operate in Broadview? How did they not cooperate when its outside their jurisdiction?
- Grandson of Man - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 10:40 am:
“You mean her legal firearm that she had a concealed carry permit for”
Where’s the pro-2A crowd to support someone with firearms against a tyrannical government? Where’s Darren Bailey? Must be hanging out with the small government and states’ rights crowd.
- VK - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 10:40 am:
It’s exhausting being lied to constantly.
- Norseman - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 10:41 am:
=== chasing federal agents for at least 20 minutes? ===
Chasing is a charged word for someone who was following the secret police to alert folks to their presence in the area. Charge with obstruction - a stretch. Charge with traffic violation - perhaps. Shooting and lying about her actions - horrendous.
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 10:42 am:
===had a semiautomatic firearm===
Yesterday, Harrison argued strenuously and repeatedly against any protections offered by the 4th Amendment, and today he’s apparently adding the 2nd to his target list.
What shall tomorrow bring?
- Pundent - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 10:45 am:
=allow for protest but not prevent law enforcement from doing their work.=
I think the rub is that in many instances law enforcement has been trampling on constitutionally protected rights in doing their work. When we can’t count on the justice department to follow the law the citizens often respond in kind. The leaders are setting the tone and temperature here.
- ArchPundit - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 10:46 am:
===What shall tomorrow bring?
I’m going with 3rd Amendment as the ICE toilet crisis continues.
- JS Mill - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 10:47 am:
=“Do something, b—-,”=
Another tough guy, until he isn’t. They talk tough, but are really scared little boys ganging up in people.
I mean please do not criticize them (ice, cb) they have a lot of trauma./s
Interesting. that @harrison does not support citizen’s 1st or 2nd Amendment rights. They must be big on “gun control”.
=They’re simply saying that no matter how people protest, this regime will always say it is the wrong way and punish it. Or they will blatantly incite problems to justify their violent response.=
100% correct.
- H-W - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 10:55 am:
=== chasing federal agents for at least 20 minutes ===
My son lives in Chicago. He has said it is now quite common for residents of Chicago to start yelling “ICE” when the see agents in the streets or on the trains.
Is there any reason to disallow residents of Chicago from following vehicles carrying ICE and/or DHS agents as they are moving from place to place, and laying on the horn to announce the coming of the second, er, the presence of ICE?
Should that person impede a vehicle, that would seem a misdemeanor offense of interfering with official business at most.
I am a a pacifist, so for me, shooting to kill is never justified. But shooting a protestor for protesting is a much lower bar, one that I pray most people will agree is never justifiable.
- Rinse and RePete - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 10:58 am:
Superintendent Snelling said the defendant used deadly force by using her car to ram the ICE vehicle and that under those circumstances a law enforcement officer is justified in using deadly force to stop her. That sounds right to me.
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 11:00 am:
===Superintendent Snelling said the defendant used deadly force by using her car to ram===
He relied on the federal police account, which seemed to fall apart in court yesterday. She was the one allegedly rammed.
- Harrison - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 11:21 am:
She seems like a trustworthy, upstanding member of the community who is definitely not unhinged in any way
Let’s believe account her 100% and totally ignore law enforcement’s account or her on line threats and live Facebook broadcast
Why even have a trial?
- Stephanie Kollmann - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 11:23 am:
If you know that the overwhelming majority (like 90%?) of handguns now sold are semiautomatic, and that most of the people who own revolvers are over 65, treating this as though it is a meaningful detail in this case is dishonest.
Border Patrol, which operates in Texas, certainly knows this.
- Demoralized - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 11:25 am:
@Harrison
There is body camera footage. But you keep on trampling on the Constitution with your defense of this crap that is going on.
- Stephanie Kollmann - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 11:25 am:
I mention Texas because if Border Patrol is this worried about the mere presence of a lawfully-owned firearm, it should probably dissolve.
- Pundent - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 11:27 am:
=Let’s believe account her 100% and totally ignore law enforcement’s account or her on line threats and live Facebook broadcast=
It would be a shorter post to simply say, I’m not a fan of the constitution.
- Jocko - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 11:29 am:
==totally ignore law enforcement’s account==
Which one (of the three)? It’s a shame they keep forgetting to turn on their bodycams to help their recollection of events.
- Candy Dogood - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 11:29 am:
===He relied on the federal police account, which seemed to fall apart in court yesterday.===
It should be fascinating to see if this kind of routine dishonesty and professional embarrassment causes prosecutors to take their time before bringing cases based off of the statements from the ICE agents that really seem to think that they will suffer no penalties for their behavior.
- BE - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 11:30 am:
==What shall tomorrow bring?==
*rolls a d20*
19!
==Why even have a trial?==
Given how many times they shot her, the lack of medical care and how DHS killed a guy for trying to drive away from them, who says she would have gotten a trial if they had had their way?
- 40,000 ft - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 11:32 am:
Pritzker said, “Kristi Noem chose to drive her motorcade through the protesters to create clashes.”
Lemme fix that—
Pritzker chose to traffick women, children, and criminals, into this state, violating numerous federal criminal laws, to create clashes and incite a fake fascists/anti-fascist conflict.
All the hand wringing on the left never seems to acknowledge the original illegal events, regarding federal immigration laws, that preceded these current events.
Pritzker and the state of Illinois have intentionally created this situation and the claims of innocence are funny.
Judge Perry is in a tough spot too and it’s very entertaining to watch that unfold. She has to deal with federal supremacy, federal criminal code violations, etc.
(If this is allowed to post, and any responses are posted, I hope the red herrings, non-sequitors, and ad hominems are filtered. They’re so silly and unhelpful. )
- JoeMaddon - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 11:34 am:
Ah, shoot, messed up that code.
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 11:35 am:
===Pritzker chose to traffick women, children, and criminals, into this state, violating numerous federal criminal laws, to create clashes and incite a fake fascists/anti-fascist conflict.===
Abbott sent them on buses and planes. Perhaps you were asleep during that time.
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 11:37 am:
===Why even have a trial? ===
You’re the one attempting to throw out the Constitution. Stop projecting.
- Roadrager - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 11:38 am:
==Tell that to the poor folks in Broadview who have trouble getting in and out of their homes.==
I didn’t realize it was the protesters who put up fences to block off municipal streets without notifying anyone in Broadview.
- Excitable Boy - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 11:43 am:
- incite a fake fascists/anti-fascist conflict. -
As a firm anti-fascist, I assure you I have a very real problem with fascists like you and these criminal ICE agents.
- JS Mill - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 11:48 am:
=All the hand wringing on the left never seems to acknowledge the original illegal events, regarding federal immigration laws, that preceded these current events.=
I am all for border enforcement (at the border not some concocted lack of geographic understanding of borders) and immigration enforcement that follows the law.
That said, my mom always told me two wrongs don’t make it right. That is why you cannot use lethal force on a shoplifter. The fact that someone was watching ice/cbp does not mean they committed a capital offense. It seems like the rush to hire previously unfit people into ice is proving to be a problem. in the USA where I am from we also have a longstanding belief in “innocent until proven guilty”. Maybe it isn’t that way where you are from.
Is that too “red herrings, non-sequitors, and ad hominems” for you?
Where were all of those opposed to the rule of law with regard to the undocumented etc. when Abbott was illegally shipping alleged “illegals” to Chicago and other cities? Where is the federal investigation of Abbott?’
Crickets I am sure.
- H-W - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 11:52 am:
=== Pritzker chose to traffick women, children, and criminals, into this state ===
=== I hope the red herrings, non-sequitors, and ad hominems are filtered ===
Clearly, they have not been filtered. But to the point, your argument is false. Pritzker did not traffic anyone into this state. Instead, Pritzker has chosen to honor the accord we as a nation explicitly make with asylum seekers. We grant them the right to remain in this nation while their cases for asylum are heard before the federal courts.
Your argument suggests you opposed immigration, and reject immigration law. That is fine. But present truths and facts if you wish to have your arguments respected.
- ArchPundit - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 12:14 pm:
===t seems like the rush to hire previously unfit people into ice is proving to be a problem
ICE/CBP have lower standards than all police officers in Illinois are required to have. It’s pretty close to southern deputy level of qualifications which is be an adult, pass a drug test, and some sort of physical. We saw this kind of ramp up after 2001 and it led to corruption and misconduct. I don’t know why this would be any different and the Homan story suggests it started before Trump was even in office.
Border Patrol has been a troubled agency since it started under Harlan Carter and ICE has unprofessional over its 22 years. It’s just throwing bad recruits after bad recruits.
- ArchPundit - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 12:16 pm:
===All the hand wringing on the left never seems to acknowledge the original illegal events, regarding federal immigration laws, that preceded these current events.
The claim to finding 37 undocumented people in the bizarre raid on the apartment building on the south side hasn’t mentioned how many were Venezuelans many of whom likely had TPS just a few days before. People are very confused about what the law is and isn’t but many of the people who are being detained have some sort of legal status or did very recently.
- Amalia - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 12:19 pm:
one can support immigration but be against disorganized immigration and in favor of finding criminals, unauthorized immigrants or others. what was happening during Biden’s administration was a mess…until he enforced new regs. and we are reaping the harvest of that now. crossing into a country..any country in the world…without permission is illegal. unauthorized immigrant is terminology in U.S. law. People who are unauthorized who are involved with those who are unauthorized and who have a crime on their record or do commit another crime are in proximity to danger, and ICE. It’s sad and messy and yes it’s true that most unauthorized immigrants, like all people, are not criminals. But if a person is in the U.S. without legal protection, it’s more dicey now. they aren’t listening to the asylum procedure which was suspect in the first place. danger in the home country is assessed differently than, say, danger here in a dangerous neighborhood. and if people impede law enforcement, traffic interference, blocking on foot or in vehicles, throwing objects, expect that law enforcement, local or national, will not be happy and will probably react in one way or another. heed the Chicago Police Supt’s advice.
- Harrison - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 12:22 pm:
It’s a sad day when criminals under indictment have their case characterized as “fallen apart “ well before a trial and Federal agents are described as criminals.
No wonder we have gang members and others threatening federal agents with assassination
- Three Dimensional Checkers - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 12:35 pm:
Color me very skeptical. Still, it is not worth it for anyone to engage in aggressive action against ICE agents. Paying lawyers to fight a criminal charge is destabilizing to say the least even if you win in the end. Giving Trump more pretext is not good strategy.
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Oct 7, 25 @ 12:45 pm:
===more pretext===
While I agree with everything else you said, I think they’ll find whatever pretext they want regardless.
Start on page 11:
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ilnd.487574/gov.uscourts.ilnd.487574.1.0.pdf