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Daily Herald ends reader comments

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Illinois

Today, the Daily Herald is joining a growing list of media outlets that no longer allow website commenting on stories.

Why are we stopping now?

The comment section was intended to be a tool to spur dialogue among our readers. Sometimes it succeeded in doing that.

Over time, however, it has become increasingly negative, with comments crossing the line into hate speech, bullying and name-calling. Too much time was being devoted to moderating the comments so that readers with thoughtful and relevant commentary could still have their views heard. For those well-meaning readers, there are other ways to weigh in on content and issues of the day.

* Many years ago, I was so fed up with comments that I turned them off. The blowback was severe because even people who rarely or never commented loved reading the comments here. So, I switched platforms to allow me to automatically screen out the worst of the worst.

The worst “bad” words are banned (see George Carlin’s infamous list if you dare and aren’t at work), others are automatically held for review, including a certain punctuation mark. Some of the more aggressive commenters are automatically held in purgatory until we release them or decide to delete them. The system usually works. Often, it’s more trouble than it’s worth. Sometimes, I admit, it’s overkill. But we do try to adjust as we go along.

* The reason the blowback was so harsh was that comments are such a vital part of this site. I always say that this website truly lives and breathes. We have the news feeds on the right side of the page which constantly refresh; then there are our posts throughout the day; the press release posts; and the comments. Leave for 20 minutes and come back and the site has changed. It’s truly quite unique and even beautiful.

I take heat for deleting some comments. I take heat for letting some comments through. It’s a balancing act and it isn’t perfect. But what I will never do is allow this place to turn into a cesspool, which is what happened with the Daily Herald and many, many news sites before. A whole lot of folks spend a bunch of money to post ads on this site (just look around, we’re like a NASCAR racecar right now - an ad on every square inch), so there has to be some sort of decorum or those people won’t spend that money. Hey, I’m a capitalist. What can I say? I don’t have a government pension but I do want to retire someday and hand this over to Isabel. I make zero apologies for that.

* I’m firmly committed to keeping comments alive for as long as I still have breath in my body. But this ain’t a public park. It’s a private establishment. I’ve said for many years that this place is like my tavern. Management (me) reserves the right to refuse service for any reason. If you don’t like it, you’re free to go somewhere else. Goodbye and good riddance. I just don’t care.

* Anyway, I (mostly) love you all and I appreciate what you (mostly) add to this site. It’s incredibly valuable and I (mostly) cherish all of you. We’re (mostly) like family here and that gives me (mostly) great joy. So, (most of you) keep up the great work [banned punctuation]

posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 9:55 am

Comments

Rich- thanks so much for your ongoing efforts to make this a (mostly) terrific blog….

Comment by Friendly Bob Adams Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 10:01 am
I think maybe one in ten of my posts never make it through the mod queue here, even when I try to be cognizant and keep the vitriol toned down. So we see what flies on the broader internet, try to tone it down, and CapFax still mods it.

To me, that’s an opportunity for reflection as to how far we’ve strayed from civil discourse. I’m not even joking when I say the moderation here helps guide me to being a better person day-to-day, both online and IRL.

All this to say, in a roundabout way, thanks for all you do, Rich.

Comment by Irreverent Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 10:04 am
Thank you, Rich. I love commenting and interacting with your site. If you don’t mind me asking, what is this banned punctuation you speak of?

Comment by hmmm Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 10:05 am
Yes, Rich - thanks for your efforts.

Btw, if you ever do open a tavern, I will frequent it.

Comment by Paddyrollingstone Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 10:06 am
Rich, you do a great job. Balanced and Fair unlike so many national news sites.

Comment by Stephenson County Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 10:07 am
Appreciate the transparency Rich, keep on the good work

Comment by Chris Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 10:12 am
I have often used this site as an example of the media transition we’re going through where legacy media (newspapers, TV, radio) are being replaced by websites, apps, and influencers that cater to a specific market, and delivers news/content that is both relevant and interesting to that specific market.

Comment by Just Me 2 Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 10:14 am
I truly appreciate this blog because I can visit knowing I will always find intelligent and respectful discourse. I found this blog as a non-politico (I still am for the most part) and I’ve learned so much from Rich and the regular commenters. Even the snark is relevant and mostly respectful. I come here to get facts about the issues that affect me and my family without the rhetoric meant to distract and influence my opinions. I rarely miss a day so just know there are many like me who don’t often comment but rely on this blog as a source for news.

Comment by Cubs in '16 Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 10:14 am
Love this blog and the comments are usually quite valuable to digest the content.

I also appreciate that it is allowed to agreeably disagree here.

Comment by Occasionally Moderated Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 10:14 am
Thanks for (mostly) letting my musings rise out of purgatory.

Comment by TheInvisibleMan Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 10:23 am
==It’s a private establishment. I’ve said for many years that this place is like my tavern. Management (me) reserves the right to refuse service for any reason. If you don’t like it, you’re free to go somewhere else. ==

Spot on, Rich. Its your board, you make the rules. Thank you for running an outstanding page.

Comment by low level Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 10:23 am
While I don’t comment regularly, and will disagree w/some of what I read, I really appreciate reading other commenters. Rich (& others) give me things to think about as well as learning something new each day. Thank you Rich & Isabell.

Comment by Interim Retiree Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 10:27 am
This blog keeps me up to date with what’s going on in Illinois. The comments add to my understanding as good conversation should. Although I rarely comment, I really appreciate this place. Thanks for work you do in moderating it.

Comment by Don't Bloc Me In Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 10:27 am
==It’s a private establishment. I’ve said for many years that this place is like my tavern. Management (me) reserves the right to refuse service for any reason. If you don’t like it, you’re free to go somewhere else. ==

Rich, I’d like to buy a round of Malort for all your readers and commentors.

Comment by don the legend Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 10:32 am
==I do want to retire someday and hand this over to Isabel.==

This makes me smile. Not that we want you to go away any time soon.

Comment by Horseshoe Voter Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 10:35 am
I have comments held or deleted as much as anyone else here. And I almost always understand why, because Rich is crystal clear about his standards. There is no right to free speech here, we are all guests.

I love this place. I can’t imagine a future where this place didn’t exist. Thanks Rich, for everything you do to keep this establishment at the highest level.

Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 10:41 am
Those parentheses are doing a lot of work lol

Comment by That Guy Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 10:42 am
A few years ago certain people went nuts because social media companies moderated hate speech. One of them bought a company (Twitter) to “restore free speech.” Free speech means media companies can moderate themselves as they choose, and people can start their own blogs or companies to rant about being blocked or moderated somewhere else. They can make a “spite blog” like the spite coffeeshop on Curb Your Enthusiasm.

Comment by Grandson of Man Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 10:59 am
I mostly wish I could spend more time here, though that would probably result in me getting mostlied. This place is unique and while you don’t need me saying it, something to be proud of - thanks Rich.

Comment by lake county democrat Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 11:03 am
The comments here are a significant reason I read this blog. For the most part, they are civil (and I know that your moderation accounts for a lot of that). But they are also thoughtful and informative. I’ve learned a lot from the expertise of several commenters, and they often present me with a point of view that I may not have previously considered.

Thank you for doing what you do.

Comment by JoanP Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 11:09 am
How do we find out if we are on the moderation list?

Comment by Thomas Paine Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 11:14 am
Thank you for this great service that you provide to all of us. One reason I come here is to view opinions that I would normally not see. I appreciate the lack of vitriol. The beer is cold and the peanuts are fresh.

Comment by joand315 Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 11:17 am
I’ve been reading capfax since 2003 and I keep coming back to this blog because I learn something practically every week. I’ve learned so much about Illinois government and politics during this time and I just thank you Rich and your interns over the years for doing such an amazing job! Keep up the good work!

Comment by Scoot Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 11:18 am
I love and share this blog as a must read for anyone interested in following Illinois politics and governance. The comments are valuable because you and Isabel take the time to moderate them which results in more responsible & knowledgeable comments & commenters. This has become a virtuous cycle. Thank you for creating and maintaining this space.

I am a bit curious about the automatic screening. I have noticed that when I switch between using my phone and my laptop and/or log in from different locations, some of my comments are held. Does the holding algorithm find this suspicious, or am I just using terms that get flagged? (I am careful with my language, so I feel like it is the former.)

Comment by Pot calling kettle Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 11:19 am
I do not look forward to the day you retire.
Your breadth of knowledge and gumption will be sorely missed

Anyway I can honestly say I don’t agree with all posters but I am open minded enough to at least read it and see if I can learn anything, or examine my feelings on an issue.

So many sites just echo back what you want to hear.
Part of the reason discourse is going the way of the dinosaur..

Comment by Loop Lady Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 11:21 am
I think a big part of what happened with the Daily Herald is the growth in Chicago of “Moms for Liberty.”

First they lost in the court of public opinion over masks and vaccines.

Then they lost in actual court.

Then they lost in the legislature.

Then they lost in the voting booth.

What they’ve been left with is trying to “win” on social media, including harassing outlets in comments and social media.

The Daily Herald closing comments probably means those commenters will be posting “three times as hard” on atwitter.

Comment by Thomas Paine Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 11:24 am
Thank you Rich and Isabel for compiling and for your insight on the news and events. And yes, I love reading the comments from so many very smart and well informed people. I often quote you and commenters to my friends.

Comment by Stix Hix Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 11:30 am
I do love reading the comments even though I think I have been relegated to purgatory myself (I don’t expect to see this comment posted).

Comment by CA-HOON! Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 11:31 am
This site is the gold standard for informed, intelligent, and (mostly) civil discourse. It is an oasis in an ocean of toxicity.

Comment by Pundent Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 11:35 am
Thank you for the posts and allowing comments. I learn so much from you and Isabel and also from those who comment. It is all valuable.

Comment by SJOH Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 11:37 am
== Does the holding algorithm find this suspicious, ==

It’s happened to me also. I suspect it has to do with the IP addresses that show up. I think it also somewhat depends on your provider. For example, while I live in Springfield, one of my providers will show my location as Chicago. Think that is the point where I move off the provider’s proprietary network and onto the general internet backbone.

Sometimes there is just a lag posting. Other times I’m not sure why the automatic filtering catches a comment. If it doesn’t show up after an hour or two and I feel strongly about the comment, I’ve been known to nag Rich … but I don’t do that very often.

Comment by RNUG Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 11:38 am
One thing all can agree on is that you are fair. I like everyone else have my own opinions but i tend to keep them to myself. I respect the rules and just keep quiet . I dont post often (the whole Bears ask for public money has got me riled up) but i do enjoy reading the posts. Its a good balance and your moderation of your space is commendable.

Comment by Regular democrat Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 11:38 am
I just,want to know where oswego willie went to…did I missed something.

Comment by Red headed step child Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 11:48 am
Noted.

Comment by Give Us Barabbas Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 11:58 am
Thanks for all you do. My spouse runs a chat site and has to the same moderating, deleting and banning. It’s hard but necessary. Thanks again to both you and Isabel. (I did notice just now the certain punctuation mark is on the Say It button I am about to hit.)

Comment by 32nd Ward Roscoe Village Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 11:58 am
Cap Fax is the best kind of capitalism. We are all one species, and a common community. The readers and authors generally remember that. As a regular reader, I get smarter about the world here, but I also read about the successes and even the passing of friends. Thanks for maintaining an orderly establishment Rich and Isabel, it is much appreciated.

Comment by West Sider Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 12:08 pm
It’s a good thing I quit the booze…I’d have been thrown out of Rich’s Tavern by now…on my bouncer.

Comment by Dotnonymous x Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 12:09 pm
===Does the holding algorithm find this suspicious===

Yes.

Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 12:11 pm
I have many friends who are capitalists.

Comment by Dotnonymous x Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 12:13 pm
I will probably use a lot of George Carlin’s words watching the postseason. Anyway, thank you for all you do!

Comment by System Reboot Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 12:14 pm
Rich; Restricting public comments is a subject that remains very important to myself. This past week I completed my second book. The book concerns the evolution the Illinois General Assembly from 1818 to 1872. A major factor of insuring the refinement of democracy was the proliferation of newspapers and the representation of the public voice in those newspapers. The major issue by midcentury was the the corrupt activity of the general assembly but also the problem of railroad rates. The public expressed it’s discontent through letters to the editor. The public voice influenced the delegates to the Convention of 1869-1870 and subsequently members of the following Illinois Legislatures. The result of the Convention (after an intense debate) was to instruct the legislature ( an article in the constitution) to solve the problem of railroad rates. The Legislature responded and resulted in the U.S. Supreme Court decision Munn vs Illinois 1877. Munn was a landmark decision and changed all legislative approaches toward the regulation private business. Munn vs Illinois came about because the people of Illinois were able to voice their concerns and prompt reform through the newspapers.
The problem is free speech today. There were no websites in the 1870s. The problem is how do you forbid hate speech, fundamentally what constitutes hate speech, and who decides?

Comment by The Professor Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 12:18 pm
===where oswego willie went to===

You can find him on Bluesky

Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 12:19 pm
Rich - Thank you so much for your (and Isabel) hard work and commitment to Capital Fax. The comment section is a great source of information for me and a big part of why I read Capital fax. You have many commenters that add their insight and provides a boost to yours and Isabel’s stories. Thank you for the opportunity to be able to comment on these stories.

Comment by snowman61 Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 12:23 pm
VPNs seem to do the same as switching devices as well. It takes amazing patience to monitor comments. I would say to the idea that the Moms of Liberty comment, it’s a lot broader than that. Part of it is just polarization, but another is that in general people send stories onto different forums and it just drags in people from all over many who may not have any connection to a local paper. If you cannot moderate fairly quickly and with some standard of comity, most of the forums descend into chaos.

Professor, please share when the book is out and the title.

Comment by ArchPundit Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 12:24 pm
===where oswego willie went to===

You can find him on Bluesky

I was wondering what happened to him. His comments were always smart and well informed. So are many others. Your comment section rocks.

Comment by James of Little Italy Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 12:38 pm
As a minor politico, I value the insight I gain here from those of you who are in much deeper trenches. I formerly would get direct insight from the likes of Kay Hatcher and Steve Andersson. I still get some from Jeff Keicher, but he’s a district over from me so, not as frequent. This blog keeps my engagement going.

Thanks Rich and Isabell, one Old Style please

Comment by Proud Sucker Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 12:40 pm
Only infrequently do I post a comment; however, I read almost all the comments that are posted on the Capitol Fax blog. I appreciate all of the comments, even the ones with which I disagree. Most of all, I appreciate the blog itself and the hard work that Rich and Isabell put in. Thank you!

Comment by Retired SURS Employee Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 1:26 pm
=== This past week I completed my second book. The book concerns the evolution the Illinois General Assembly from 1818 to 1872. ===

@The Professor -

I think your third book will answer all your questions:
- by-lines
- Yellow Journalism
- William Randolph Hearst
- The sinking of The Maine and the Spanish-American War

My favorite - thanks in no small part to Rich - is newspaper owner Len Small, who used his Kankakee newspaper as a political springboard, eventually becoming the most notoriously corrupt governor in Illinois history.

=== how do you forbid hate speech, fundamentally what constitutes hate speech, and who decides? ===

Same as pornography, Professor.

Also, “hate speech” is not a crime nor is it forbidden. Except for what the Supreme Court defines as “fighting words”, hate speech is protected by the constitution. What is not protected is directing that speech at someone in the form of a threat, intimidation, or to incite violence against an individual or group.

Hear I think is a helpful analogy:

Assaulting someone is a crime, but that crime can be “aggravated” when certain factors are present like you targeted the elderly, children, or people with disabilities.

An assault can be “aggravated” when the effect is to terrorize a particular group of people based on any number of factors, with race, ethnicity and religious probably most common.

A good example of this is the recent case in Michigan where a guy apparently said a lot of really awful things about Mormons, which is Free Speech. But then he drove his pickup truck into a Mormon Church full of people.

Curious minds wanna know where you teach currently?

Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 1:38 pm
=== I do want to retire someday and hand this over to Isabel. ===

I think there’s some news in there.

Set a retirement date and work backward, Brother.

Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 1:42 pm
Don’t retire, Rich…rage on!

Comment by Dotnonymous x Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 1:47 pm
Since there’s been more national news on CapFax lately, the moderation system must be working overtime. There’s too much hate online already; this place is an oasis from that.

One rarely mentioned benefit of CapFax is that elected officials, from the governor on down, as well as candidates, visit here. They can get an idea of what citizens are thinking and maybe, just maybe, make wiser decisions because of that.

Thanks, Rich and Isabel.

Comment by Streator Curmudgeon Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 1:49 pm
I remember when they rolled this out and it was a mess and gross from week one. Someone would write this well reported story, a commenter would be like this sucks you liberal media idiot or whatever and off to the races. 20 years of that. Hilarious after all this time to get rid of it. They would have been better off ditching it immediately.

Comment by P. Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 2:12 pm
Keep up the good work, much needed to have a platform people can voice their thoughts, ask questions Google doesn’t have the answers to, find out the insider sausage-making process etc.

Comment by Frida's Boss Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 2:24 pm
Gresham’s Law (”Bad money drives out good money.”) also applies to unmoderated online comment posting, sadly. Moderating is necessary.

Comment by Anyone Remember Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 2:32 pm
When you are moderated don’t be too precious about it. It might simply be that the conversation got off the main topic and you just end up at the point where it needs to end. Not that I would know anything about that.

Comment by ArchPundit Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 2:53 pm
Been lurking since the blago days - can’t begin to say how much I’ve learned about our state (good & bad) thru reading comments.
Thank you Rich & Isabel, for doing the hard work & hats off to all the commenters for sharing your wisdom & thoughts. Illinois is better because of this blog

Comment by Little pond Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 3:46 pm
I think the moderator had a meltdown last weekend.
There was an article in the Daily Herald about a crime and a criminal .
A commenter posted a racist rant about all members of the criminal’s race. I flagged it. Next thing I knew my account was down with a message that I was banned from commenting, even though I didn’t make a comment. Then later that afternoon all comments were removed.

Comment by Moon bounce Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 4:26 pm
I have been “moderated” more than once. I chalk it up to “those are the rules” and either revise what I wanted to post or move on. I appreciate Rich, Isabell, and all the other posters for letting me engage. It is the only place I comment and do not read the comment sections of news sites because they are not moderated.

Comment by JS Mill Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 4:41 pm
Thank you!

Comment by Phineas Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 6:37 pm
Rich,

Long time lurker, first time poster. (At least a decade of high-quality lurking.). I appreciate your comment section a great deal and the regulars who often add much to the discussion. It is obvious from the outside that it takes a sustained effort to monitor the comments. It makes them better and I appreciate it.

Speaking of appreciation, I am not in a position to subscribe. Have looked many times over the years, but … Have you ever considered a tip jar or something like it? I check your site almost daily. I am happy to support your independent journalism. Would love to be able to donate something that is within my means.

Comment by One Man Party Wednesday, Oct 1, 25 @ 7:24 pm