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* I was asked by people connected to both Democratic gubernatorial campaigns last night what I thought about the debate. After ripping the League of Women Voters’ ridiculous format - which encouraged the candidates to just repeat their sound byte attacks on each other for an hour - I said that since few would actually watch the debate, if the governor’s botched prisoner release plan makes the lede in all the coverage and is fleshed out in the stories, then Hynes probably won. After looking at the coverage, it seems to be a draw, with the governor scoring points early in every story with a media-ready quote. Sun-Times…
They shook hands at the end and said they’d still be friends, but for an hour, Gov. Quinn and challenger Dan Hynes accused each other of incompetence, deception, and/or “cover-ups.”
“He smiles in your face and stabs you in the back and that’s what he’s done since Day One,” Quinn said of state Comptroller Hynes, who is challenging Quinn in the Feb. 2 Democratic primary for governor.
The governor’s harsh attacks belied his criticism of Hynes. The comptroller never really called Quinn names, so this was more about political projection than reality - a tactic rarely acknowledged by the media. Quinn also used an inappropriate ethnic slur…
Quinn also raised a few eyebrows by twice referring to taxpayers getting “gypped,” a reference to a derogatory stereotype that people of the Roma ethnicity, often referred to as “gypsies,” are swindlers and thieves. Afterward, Quinn, who was battling a cold, said the term applied to the situation.
I saw close up how the Roma were treated in central Europe several years ago. It’s horrible. In Kosovo, back in 1999, they were essentially herded into make-shift concentration camps “for their protection.”
Anyway, back to the coverage. The AP’s story leaned toward the cemetery scandal and away from its own scoop on the prisoner release…
But it was last year’s headline-grabbing scandal at the Burr Oak Cemetery in Alsip that Quinn kept revisiting to attack Hynes.
Quinn said Hynes had responsibility as comptroller to oversee the cemetery but didn’t discover the scandal that was uncovered by the Cook County sheriff’s office.
On the defensive for much of the debate, Quinn tried to counter the early-release issue by hitting back with allegations that the comptroller’s office ignored its regulatory role in the Burr Oak Cemetery scandal. Quinn accused Hynes of engaging in a “cover-up” on that scandal, mirroring the phrase Hynes accused Quinn of on the prisoner program.
And in what appeared to be an appeal to African-American voters, Quinn said Hynes was employing against him the same attack-focused style he used against Barack Obama in the 2004 Democratic U.S. Senate campaign. Obama defeated Hynes in that contest and went on to become a U.S. senator that fall.
We may see more about both of those subjects soon. Sun-Times…
Quinn also launched a new line of attack against Hynes, saying Hynes was using the same criticism against him that he used against Barack Obama when Hynes ran for the Senate seat Obama won in 2004.
“He said, ‘You voted for George Ryan’s taxes and fees in order to get your piece of the pork pie.’ That’s what he said to our now-president,” Quinn said. “You know, when I listen to the rhetoric in this whole campaign, it’s remarkably similar to that: Run down your opponent.”
“That’s silly,” Hynes said. “Barack and I, when we ran, we were friendly before, during and after that. You can read it in his book.”
Hynes said Quinn was on the defensive Tuesday: “The governor seemed agitated … because the polls show the race tightening. He’s losing his lead. He’s losing his grip on reality.”
The Daily Herald editor at the debate asked about taxes, so that was the focus of the paper’s story…
“Taxing the middle class” served as Hynes’ go-to rip, while Quinn called his challenger’s budget plans “fantasy.”
It was an often-used blast, but the early release vs. cemetery scandal was a far more prominent exchange.
ABC7 also covered the press conference afterwards…
“The governor seemed agitated and almost angry tonight, and maybe it’s because polls are tightening and the race is getting much closer,” Hynes said.
The governor explained why he thought Hynes bombed.
“I was disappointed that my a opponent didn’t say one word about jobs. He wanted to talk a lot about me, but I don’t’ think that’s what the people want to hear,” said Quinn.
A memorable quote that didn’t get much play…
At one point he said: “Remember, Pat, that the reason you’re governor today is that you were Rod Blagojevich’s running mate. Twice.”
* Watch the debate in full, if you dare. Click here for all 6 parts…
By the way, I’m told that the Better Government Association was so disgusted with the LWV’s debate format that the group will refuse to participate in any more events such as these unless the format is radically altered. Good for them. And shame on the League.
posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Jan 20, 10 @ 10:21 am
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It was a bloodbath and uncomfortable to watch. One hour of Hynes bashing the Governor on prisoners and then the Governor returning fire on Burr Oak and the Funeral Trust Fund. I liked how Quinn showed some guts and bashed those who are against pension reform by using the terms “Double-Dipper, Cadillac-Plan and Fantasy Land.” Hynes seemed like a trained robot who brought up the word “dangerous felon” every thirty seconds on command. The debate format was a disservice to voters.
Comment by Big Policy Nerd Wednesday, Jan 20, 10 @ 10:30 am
Totally agree on the stupid format. That clarification round added nothing new. I’d love for the panel to have the opportunity to ask clarifying follow-up questions to that politicos like both Hynes and Quinn can’t get away with non-answers.
Comment by Niles Township Wednesday, Jan 20, 10 @ 10:32 am
Bad debate!
Remember the movie, “Uncle Buck”?
That’s Pat Quinn’s likability metaphor.
Now - do you think anyone wants to see “Uncle Buck” behave as the Governor did?
Neither do I.
While no one likes to see “Uncle Buck” backstabbed, John Candy’s character would have been a whole lot bigger in that situation than Pat Quinn was.
I don’t know what is going through that bobble head right now, but it looks like the Governor is thinking short-term to win next month. And - if he pulls it off - he will get roasted in November.
He will probably feel “gypped”.
Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, Jan 20, 10 @ 10:36 am
There wasn’t a whole lot going for this debate, but at least Quinn seemed interested. Hynes just looked bored. I think that Quinn’s “smile in your face, stab you in the back” barb had a lot more weight than Hynes saying that the governor was angry because the polls were tightening.
Comment by nameless Wednesday, Jan 20, 10 @ 10:39 am
In fairness to the Governor, most people in the US probably don’t make a connection between the term “gypsy” and the Roma. For instance, I didn’t know that the term referred to an ethnic group until college.
Comment by Pelon Wednesday, Jan 20, 10 @ 10:41 am
Does Burr Oaks really have legs as a negative against Hynes? I kind of doubt people really think the comptroller should be patrolling cemeteries for graverobbers.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Jan 20, 10 @ 10:50 am
Thank you, I said this in comments last week. There needs to be a format like the presidential debates where every year its established. they have a debate in each region of the state for primary and the general, an established format thats reviewed and there you go. No hiding like my pal Mark Kirk did on the abc debate. Here’s who I am, here’s what I’ve got, here’s what my opponents think and here’s the decision you have to make next fall.
end of story.
Comment by shore Wednesday, Jan 20, 10 @ 11:09 am
I think the “gypped” thing a any sort of scandal is bogus. It is a common use term, it really isn’t tied to the ethnic group (at least not anymore) and people are tired of the Sharpton/Jackson gotcha game on every little verbal bobble anyway.
Comment by titan Wednesday, Jan 20, 10 @ 11:13 am
===people are tired of the===
Try to speak for yourself unless you have data to back up your claim. Thanks.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Jan 20, 10 @ 11:15 am
Could someone expand on what made the debate format so bad?
Also, though I am sure the comments about the debate format are justified, it always rubs me a little bit the wrong way to see the groups that are out there trying to do the right thing get criticized while the groups that SHOULD be doing things like this but do NOTHING get a total pass. And by that I am talking about our local Democratic party.
At the presidential level the DNC organizes debates among those seeking to be the party’s nominee. Our state Dem party should be doing the same thing for statewide offices, especially since it is my understanding that they have made no official endorsements. The local League of Woman Voters is, to the best of my knowledge, primarily a grassroots, volunteer effort. Yet here they are taking on the job that should be done by the state party. Though the League may deserve criticism for doing a poor job, at least they are doing it. I would like to see a few flames going to those that have completely abdicated their responsibilities in the areas of voter engagement and raising debate and awareness of the issues and candidates.
Comment by Lakefront Liberal Wednesday, Jan 20, 10 @ 11:18 am
There are many of these terms that have made their way into common usage over the years. Many people are not even aware that it is an ethnic reference, let alone a derogatory one. None the less, for PQ to ignore the possible backlash by minimizing it with the “appropriate term” bit is not a good idea. Those who are offended can make waves. Enough wave action will require PQ to backtrack and apologize. Wasting precious energy on this is stupid. A simple, “poor choice of words, could have done better, I apologize” makes it all go away. PQ probably believes that his populist chops and record of diversity and tolerance will protect him from criticism. It won’t.
It may not be fair to brand him bigoted for the remark but politics ain’t fair.
Comment by dupage dan Wednesday, Jan 20, 10 @ 11:24 am
====Could someone expand on what made the debate format so bad?===
I did that last night…
===The format was horrible, so no questions were really answered. It was basically just two guys throwing the same darts at each other for an hour. I don’t know who came up with this goofy format, but it should be dumped. The only news we got was the vitriol. The candidates were simply given too much leeway, but so little time that they had little choice but to use well-worn hits on each other. ===
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Jan 20, 10 @ 11:24 am
Shore: “There needs to be a format like the presidential debates where every year its established. they have a debate in each region of the state for primary and the general, an established format thats reviewed …”
To follow up on my previous comment, this is exactly what a state party could and should be doing. They would have the resources to coordinate an effort like this state-wide, instead of relying on various community and goo-goo groups to cobble things together. But that, of course, supposes that you have a state party that a) thinks contested primaries are an expression of democracy rather than a form of treason b) is interested in engaging voters and debating the issues rather than controlling voters and hiding the issues
And I am talking about our state wide Dem party –I am not familiar with how the Illinois GOP handles things though I don’t recall seeing any coordinated GOP primary debates either.
Comment by Lakefront Liberal Wednesday, Jan 20, 10 @ 11:26 am
You can talk about all the pension reforms you want but unless you talk about funding it is just rhetoric. Quinn looks like he trying to sell you a used car, and Hynes is the guy who cant get one off the lot.
Comment by Obamas' Puppy Wednesday, Jan 20, 10 @ 11:29 am
“Gypped” doesn’t belong in enlighted conversations anymore than the word, “ain’t”, or the double-negative, “don’t have no…” Not only is it insulting, it is ignorant.
We still hear the term, “indian” or “dutch” to describe something that is false or fraudulent. “Dutch treat” isn’t a gift. “Indian summer” is a false summer day. “Indian giver” is a person who takes back what is given. “Dutch uncle” isn’t an uncle. “Dutch ovens” are not ovens.
Both “indian” and “dutch” are a part of our English word heritage, due to the fact that the British fought the Dutch and the Indians hundreds of years ago and slandered these nations with these derogatory terms.
Anyone running for public office needs to be aware that they will not win over voters they insult. As a result, they need to be aware of the words they use.
Quinn is our “Dutch Governor”.
Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, Jan 20, 10 @ 11:43 am
Like I stated last week, I repsect the tribune for not endorsing on the dem guv’s race side. If how they performed at the debate was any indication how they acted in front of the tribune editorial board, no wonder neither received an endorsement.
The comfort areas are clear: Hynes is comfortable tackling the budget area because he has practical day-to-day experience there, as comptroller, whereas Quinn is not. Quinn would rather be the populist governor, who just does a lot of little feel-good projects and this was confirmed in his state of the state last week and his political history as someone who doesn’t do much, but wants to do much, perhaps too much, and means well. Does Illinois need a populist or someone who is going to work to fix the budget? My impression of quinn is still that he is in over his head and doesn’t really understand or have what it takes at his time to be good governor. He need only look at Governor Mitch Daniels (R-Indiana) and a few others to find examples of good governor and what it takes to be one during tight economic times. a good governor has to be able to say no and has to understand that efficiency is the best policy right now. stop trying to be a hero and just be a nonsense governor!
Quinn’s heart is in it, but his head is not. His heart is a problem because his tendency to be emotional rather than logical has led to his lack of results and inability to get needed things accomplished last year. The tax increase was needed last year. One of the journalist laid out quinn’s well-documented flip flops in a question, and quinn arbuptly said that’s not true , looked down, and quickly went on to another subject. Quinn basically called the person who asked the question a liar. Quinn also did not answer the question about mistakes made and what learned from his mistakes, we saw him refuse to answer/acknowledge his shortcomings after his stopgap budget was passed last year. Any person who cannot admit mistakes, especially when the mistakes are grossly apparent, is not of good leadership quality/character. It’s as simple as that. And, this explains why his leadership is so poor overall.
When the sun-times endorsed Quinn I read his answers to the editorial board. Of all of the top-tier gubernatorial candidates he was the only one to NOT focus on the budget/fiscal crisis in his answer to the question concerning what is the state’s biggest/top priority. Sure his answered focused on jobs, but his jobs plan is sketchy and very vague. In truth it isn’t much of a plan—it’s his hope.
Comment by Will County Woman Wednesday, Jan 20, 10 @ 11:55 am
part 2.
My impression of Hynes is that he is a bit of a One-Noter, but fortunately he hits the right note at the right time: the budget and the time is NOW more than ever!
Hynes dwelled on the early release issue way too much! To the point where he often stumbled over his talking points on the matter. Of course he needed to talk about it, but it did not need to be a part of all of his talking points. His ads are bringing the point home to voters loud and clear apparently. Talking about the early prison release to the extent that he did lastnight was overkill. Hynes was too predictible when starting off practically everything with his constant retort that “Quinn is consistent on taxing the middle class.”
Quinn has a plethora of gaffes over the course of the last year and throughout his 30 year political career from which Hynes could have drawn examples to highlight. Too late in the debate Hynes did what he should have done all along: he said “too answer the question…” when answering a question. His rhetorical strategy was lacking. He missed providing transitions to add clarity and distinguish himself from Pat Quinn’s non-answer answers. Hynes needed to answer each question put to him sqaurely and head-on. He didn’t. When he did have good answers he failed to emphasis them or set-them up properly by saying things like, “unlike Quinn, I have…” or “ blah …blah…blah…so see, that’s how I am different.”
Both Quinn and Hynes are weak debators because they have poor debating styles, plain and simple. By contrast, the republican debate was much better, so far as the canidates were concerned, because they looked and sounded sharper when answering the questions. Quinn came across as desperate in his talking points about Burr Oak and the burial trust funds. He’s been trying to talk about them for two weeks now. I hope he feels better that he finally got that off his chest. But something tells me he doesn’t. Hynes came across as desperate because he harped on the prison release matter too much. I do appreciate that he did address the crime victims in one of his talking points.
Comment by Will County Woman Wednesday, Jan 20, 10 @ 11:59 am
To further complicate our political correctness, “dutch” doesn’t even refer to those w/ origins in the Netherlands. Rather, it is an English language bastardization of Deustch. The religious immigrants that settled in New York and Penn. were primarily German speakers or, in their tongue, Deustch. Thus, one can argue that even referencing Pennsylvania Dutch is, in itself a slur. But, since it has been occurring since the early 1800’s it has become integrated into the common parlance.
Comment by D.P. Gumby Wednesday, Jan 20, 10 @ 12:49 pm
Hynes just can not seem to pick up any traction. He has plenty of ammo, but whatever gun he is using keeps missing the mark.
Comment by Ghost Wednesday, Jan 20, 10 @ 12:59 pm
===whatever gun he is using keeps missing the mark. ===
Quinn’s poll almost two weeks ago had the governor ahead by 21 points - 53-32 I think it was. Word is Quinn’s latest is far closer. Hynes has succeeded in bringing Quinn down. Now he needs to move up.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Jan 20, 10 @ 1:03 pm
I was disgusted with Andy Shaw. He had some tough questions for Hynes but threw softballs to Quinn. I expected him to be more objective.
Comment by Springfizzle Wednesday, Jan 20, 10 @ 1:25 pm
It will be interesting to see numbers from this week if anyone is polling.
I can’t turn on a TV or radio without seeing Mckenna; he either has betetr placement/timing or he is outspending everyone else.
Comment by Ghost Wednesday, Jan 20, 10 @ 1:36 pm
truth be told… it took quinn a lot longer than hynes to answer the friend question, and when he did finally answer quinn didn’t really didn’t answer as specifically as hynes did. win or lose i don’t think quinn will be friends with hynes. win or lose i do think hynes will attempt to make friendly overtures toward quinn in an attempt to befriend him.
by “stab in the back,” does Quinn simply mean that Hynes committed the ultimate sin in the eyes of Chicago democrats by going up against an incumbent?
fot the past week or so i have been trying to decide which political editorial cartoonist nails the likeness of governor quinn better. they both do, it’s still a tie for me. lastnight quinn looked every bit of the human non-jell-o mould that scott stanis of the tribune draws. but last week Quinn looked the more fuller faced-less sinister looking version that Jack Higgins of the chicago sun-times draws.
Quinn’s tie was crooked during the debate.
Comment by Will County Woman Wednesday, Jan 20, 10 @ 1:37 pm
I am of the opinion that Quinn had one of the worst campaign 2 weeks I’ve ever seen. He appeared to beat Hynes pretty good in the debate, so maybe he is on an upswing. I can’t imagine him doing worse-but then again.
Comment by Phineas J. Whoopee Wednesday, Jan 20, 10 @ 2:11 pm
Rich Miller goes overboard in the realm of PC.
You really can’t lay the suffering of Roma in Kosovo in the 1990s at the feet of Pat Quinn, just because he used the common street colloquialism “gypped”, a slang term that has been in use for over 100 years.
Yes, its not PC to use it (certainly, its use suggests the speaker is unsophisticated and inarticulate), but I can’t imagine 1 in 100,000 people were so horrified to hear him use it. Certainly, 1 in 12.000,000 was horrified - Rich Miller. Get over it.
Comment by Conservative Republican Wednesday, Jan 20, 10 @ 2:18 pm
Same response for VanillaMan.
Comment by Conservative Republican Wednesday, Jan 20, 10 @ 2:19 pm
But, since it has been occurring since the early 1800’s it has become integrated into the common parlance.
You have the wrong century. The “dutch” usage dates back to the British/Netherland wars from 1652 to 1784. There were four wars during this period. It was during the 17th Century that this negative slam against the dutch started.
It has nothing to do with American history, other than the fact that we speak English. The American inability to pronounce “Deutsch” correctly is well documented, as is the challenge it creates for English speakers to spell it correctly.
Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, Jan 20, 10 @ 3:38 pm
Ghost, three polls within the last few days from statewide candidates all show the Gov race has tightened dramatically. Notwithstanding his Johnny one-note debate performance, Hynes is gaining traction.
Comment by Chicago Cynic Wednesday, Jan 20, 10 @ 3:50 pm